Okay, George W. Bush isn't on here because 1/2 of America don't even know all of our Presidents faults. Not Tippercanoe (William Harrison), Not the Whig Party which may be the worst Party Ever, nor how Madison fought a war without a Strong Military which ended up in a draw.

You can say Dubya, but he got a hand-me-down cabinet. Tell me more than one cabinet leader that wasn't in Bush Sr's cabinet that's in Dubya's!

Grant, he's well known for his graft and corruption.  All though he wasn't corrupt, everyone who worked for him was.

Grant, he's well known for his graft and corruption.  All though he wasn't corrupt, everyone who worked for him was.


Seems fimiliar dosen't it. (Hint, hint.)

Seems fimiliar dosen't it. (Hint, hint.)


Yeah, some people just should never have staff.  Cheney's got a bit of that corruption thing going. :-X

  Woodrow Wilson...

  Woodrow Wilson dragged us into WWI for no good reason.  His bad reasons are murky to me, but it had a lot to do with enriching industrialists who could skim a lot of profits off of a wartime economy.  To some people, the shameful Lusitania debacle, with the deliberate sacrifice of American civilians who did not even know they were at risk for a nefarious purpose, is an eerie harbinger of 9/11...

  But Wilson's blunders did not end with his death.  His conduct of WWI and his contribution to the tone of the Treaty of Versailles were immense factors in the chain of events that led to America's participation in WWII...

  Woodrow Wilson was one of the chief architects of two World Wars and the white-knuckled half century of nuclear chicken racing that followed...

  That's what he should be remembered for...

   Woodrow Wilson...

   Woodrow Wilson dragged us into WWI for no good reason.  His bad reasons are murky to me, but it had a lot to do with enriching industrialists who could skim a lot of profits off of a wartime economy.  To some people, the shameful Lusitania debacle, with the deliberate sacrifice of American civilians who did not even know they were at risk for a nefarious purpose, is an eerie harbinger of 9/11...

   But Wilson's blunders did not end with his death.  His conduct of WWI and his contribution to the tone of the Treaty of Versailles were immense factors in the chain of events that led to America's participation in WWII...

   Woodrow Wilson was one of the chief architects of two World Wars and the white-knuckled half century of nuclear chicken racing that followed...

   That's what he should be remembered for...

Plus he was a major race bigot, I mean even more so than most people back then.  A total sonofabitch.

If I could go back in time and give Nixon some Prozac and haul all those creepy-crawlies like Haldeman, Kissinger, Liddy, and Hunt to the dump, Tricky Dick would have a much better legacy than the one he's got.  Alas, not to be!
::)

Of course it is Dubya without a doubt.


I have always admired John Adams. I think the guy was amazing. He did so much in the creation of this nation and had a beautiful love affair with his wife. However his presidency was not exactly what you would call great. He had to deal with something that no other president had to-his V.P. was of a different party. (It was because of this that we now have "running mates". ) He also made the mistake of keeping Washington's cabinet-of which many disagreed/disliked him-namely Alexander Hamilton. The BIGGEST blunder of his presidency was the Alien & Sedition Act which made it illegal to say anything negative about the president. But he did that because he was being attacked from within (his V.P. & cabinet).  I don't know if any other president had to deal with that.



Cat 

Andrew Johnson was pretty bad.  Most of our worst presidents were in office in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

Granted, Bush is probably the worst we've had in a few decades.

A lot of the late 1800s presidents didn't do much, but I think that what Reagan did was much worse than nothing at all.

A lot of the late 1800s presidents didn't do much, but I think that what Reagan did was much worse than nothing at all.

Karma +1

A lot of the late 1800s presidents didn't do much, but I think that what Reagan did was much worse than nothing at all.


You've heard of General Ulysses Grant have you? They called him 'useless'.

I'm in for Woodrow.  I consider him pure evil, and that outweighs incompetence on any scale.

You've heard of General Ulysses Grant have you? They called him 'useless'.

His father's nickname for him was "Useless."  This might explain something about his future: Low self-esteem plus the need to disprove his dad equals a high-achieving alcoholic. 

That's my ten-cent analysis. 

I'm in for Woodrow.  I consider him pure evil, and that outweighs incompetence on any scale.


To congress 4/02/17:

"The world must be made safe for democracy. Its peace must be planted upon the tested foundations of political liberty."
--Woodrow Wilson

A president who mentions democracy, peace, and liberty in 20 words while sticking his fingers into everybody else's pie, beating the drums of empire, and plunging us into a bloody mess abroad.  Sounds familiar.

I'm pretty sure I've heard Dubya say, "The world must be made safe for democracy."

To congress 4/02/17:

"The world must be made safe for democracy. Its peace must be planted upon the tested foundations of political liberty."
--Woodrow Wilson




Knowing how I am about racial politics, I am sure you will not mind if I add.

Woodrow Wilson's History of the American People,: "The white men were roused by a mere instinct of self-preservation ... until at last there had sprung into existence a great Ku Klux Klan, a veritable empire of the South, to protect the Southern country."

As president he re-segregated the federal government for the first time since Reconstruction.

Knowing how I am about racial politics, I am sure you will not mind if I add.

Woodrow Wilson's History of the American People,: "The white men were roused by a mere instinct of self-preservation ... until at last there had sprung into existence a great Ku Klux Klan, a veritable empire of the South, to protect the Southern country."

As president he re-segregated the federal government for the first time since Reconstruction.


Not to mention start the Income Tax and have the railroads be Government-owned. (The only time when the U.S. was really close to being Fascist.)

Not to mention start the Income Tax and have the railroads be Government-owned. (The only time when the U.S. was really close to being Fascist.)

Picked up a newspaper lately?  We're right back there in 1913.  This is what the Right has fought for ever since that class traitor FDR.  They want to put Ronald Reagan on the dime; they want to erase Roosevelt from the public consciousness.  Public consciousness?  Sounds like a good idea!

The railroads were privately owned and taxpayer subsidized just like the petroleum companies are today.  Socialize the costs, privatize the profits.  That's fascism.

I'm all for tax reform, including dissolving the IRS, but not until we get the government out of the hands of the billionaires and into the hands of the proletariat.  Until then, tax reform will only mean the rich get richer and the hard-working man and woman get screwed to the wall!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/10/tophat.gif

Knowing how I am about racial politics, I am sure you will not mind if I add.

Woodrow Wilson's History of the American People,: "The white men were roused by a mere instinct of self-preservation ... until at last there had sprung into existence a great Ku Klux Klan, a veritable empire of the South, to protect the Southern country."

As president he re-segregated the federal government for the first time since Reconstruction.


Reconstruction was the cause of the KKK.  The Radical Republicans used blacks in the South as targets by putting them into political offices by force.  White Southerners were already angry with their plight after the war, and the blacks became scapegoats while the Northern Industrialists carpetbagged the hell out of the South.

As you can easily see, the Civil War and the decades immediately following it were some of the most shameful times our country has gone through.  I personally wish the British had come in and kicked our asses back then, because neither the North nor South were the "good guys" in that fight.

EDIT: for accuracy...

For what it's worth, the KKK began as an organization that had nothing to do with racial hatred.  It was only after the Civil War that they became a hate group.






  The organization began after the Civil War, 1866, not before, and there was always a racial component, the subjugation of the freed slave population was always a major concern. 

   The organization began after the Civil War, 1866, not before, and there was always a racial component, the subjugation of the freed slave population was always a major concern. 


I think Mac's doing satire....I think...I, hope....
???

   The organization began after the Civil War, 1866, not before, and there was always a racial component, the subjugation of the freed slave population was always a major concern. 


I screwed that up.  I think I got confused with another organization that was around the same time.  I'm gonna have to go back and research that era again.  Still, I was right about the creation of the KKK.  It was entirely a reaction against Reconstruction.  Unfortunately, blacks were the collateral.  The true enemies of the South were not black people but the carpetbaggers.  Unfortunately, that obviously didn't stop people from killing blacks because of their new rights.

My apologies, Danoota.

I screwed that up.  I think I got confused with another organization that was around the same time.  I'm gonna have to go back and research that era again.  Still, I was right about the creation of the KKK.  It was entirely a reaction against Reconstruction.  Unfortunately, blacks were the collateral.  The true enemies of the South were not black people but the carpetbaggers.  Unfortunately, that obviously didn't stop people from killing blacks because of their new rights.

My apologies, Danoota.


No apology necessary.  But I don't think that the freed slaves were collateral, they were very much a part of the reason for the KKK.  They hated the freedom that was given, and they hated Grant who was able to cut them off at the throat.  Say what you will about Grant, he was very much interested in gaining equity for the freed slaves, and very much against the KKK.

No apology necessary.  But I don't think that the freed slaves were collateral, they were very much a part of the reason for the KKK.  They hated the freedom that was given, and they hated Grant who was able to cut them off at the throat.  Say what you will about Grant, he was very much interested in gaining equity for the freed slaves, and very much against the KKK.


Grant was a "closeted" Abolitionist.  His wife Julia Dent owned two slaves, which was a grave concern for Grant's father who was a hardcore Abolitionist.  It was U.S. Grant who freed Julia's slaves.

OOPS sorry history tangent, my bad. :-[

Grant was a "closeted" Abolitionist.  His wife Julia Dent owned two slaves, which was a grave concern for Grant's father who was a hardcore Abolitionist.  It was U.S. Grant who freed Julia's slaves.

OOPS sorry history tangent, my bad. :-[


You know that is ok with me.  ;) Actually, Grant wasn't in the closet about abolition.  His father in law gave him a slave as a wedding gift and he freed him.  He could have sold him, or made him buy his freedom, but didn't think that right.  Julia kept her slaves, but Grant made her pay them.

You know that is ok with me.  ;) Actually, Grant wasn't in the closet about abolition.  His father in law gave him a slave as a wedding gift and he freed him.  He could have sold him, or made him buy his freedom, but didn't think that right.  Julia kept her slaves, but Grant made her pay them.


Grant was quite the one to promote capitalism. :)

No apology necessary.  But I don't think that the freed slaves were collateral, they were very much a part of the reason for the KKK.  They hated the freedom that was given, and they hated Grant who was able to cut them off at the throat.  Say what you will about Grant, he was very much interested in gaining equity for the freed slaves, and very much against the KKK.


Grant may have been morally sound in his assessment of racial equality, but he was a terrible president.  He is consistently regarded as one of the worst leaders we've had in the Oval Office.

He's kind of like Jimmy Carter in that respect.  Carter is a good person known for his philanthropy, but he was a crappy president.

I screwed that up.  I think I got confused with another organization that was around the same time. 

You mean that other organization cloacked in bedsheets with leaders called cyclopses, wizards, and dragons?
:-\\

Grant may have been morally sound in his assessment of racial equality, but he was a terrible president.  He is consistently regarded as one of the worst leaders we've had in the Oval Office.



I don't dispute that.  He was a great general, but misguided when it came to thinking he could run the country.

You mean that other organization cloacked in bedsheets with leaders called cyclopses, wizards, and dragons?
:-\\


What I mean is, there have been multiple organizations with a nativist/racist message that have existed throughout our history, and not all of them were that way from the beginning.

I voted for Jimmy Carter as worst president of all time. He put our country into a deep reccesion.

I voted for Jimmy Carter as worst president of all time. He put our country into a deep reccesion.


I was there, wasn't anywhere near this.

I was there, wasn't anywhere near this.


Jimmeh Cawtah tried to do good for humanity and was ineffective at times.  Bush/Cheney tried to bankrupt the nation and succeeded.

Jimmeh Cawtah tried to do good for humanity and was ineffective at times.  Bush/Cheney tried to bankrupt the nation and succeeded.


Jimmeh Cawtah is shaking his head in disbelief at what kind of crap the Bush administration has pulled.  Nice to see he's still stating his opinions.

I said Nixon because he was so corrupt, and such a hypocrite as far as drugs were concerned. Remember when he said it was unamerican to decorate your house with light for Christmas? Or when he froze prices and pay raises. And lets not even go into Watergate

   Woodrow Wilson...

   Woodrow Wilson dragged us into WWI for no good reason.  His bad reasons are murky to me, but it had a lot to do with enriching industrialists who could skim a lot of profits off of a wartime economy.  To some people, the shameful Lusitania debacle, with the deliberate sacrifice of American civilians who did not even know they were at risk for a nefarious purpose, is an eerie harbinger of 9/11...

   But Wilson's blunders did not end with his death.  His conduct of WWI and his contribution to the tone of the Treaty of Versailles were immense factors in the chain of events that led to America's participation in WWII...

   Woodrow Wilson was one of the chief architects of two World Wars and the white-knuckled half century of nuclear chicken racing that followed...

   That's what he should be remembered for...



I might be wrong, but I dont think the aftermath of WWII is officially Woodrow Wilson's fault.  I believe it was France and England who wanted to punish Germany.  Wilson wasn't chief engineer of that.  The majority of Congress were basically pressuring Wilson.  It is said this contributed to his stroke. 

I am not saying he needed to get us into the War, but also don't think the aftermath was entirely his fault.  America did not have the satus in the world that it has now. 

I might be wrong, but I dont think the aftermath of WWII is officially Woodrow Wilson's fault.  I believe it was France and England who wanted to punish Germany.  Wilson wasn't chief engineer of that.  The majority of Congress were basically pressuring Wilson.  It is said this contributed to his stroke. 8)

I am not saying he needed to get us into the War, but also don't think the aftermath was entirely his fault.  America did not have the satus in the world that it has now. 



Wilson was against the punitive measures that England and France wanted.  He was right because the atmosphere engendered was directly linked to the causes of the rise of Hitler, whom he probably would have liked given his overt racism.

I agree that Wilson was very bad, but it is sooo hard to name THE WORST.  So many have been very bad for one reason or another (and usually multiple reasons).  It all depends on your frame of reference.  Nixon's paranoia was very dangerous.  Harding's corruption, Reagan's policies, etc all qualify them  for consideration.  Carter, however, has gotten a bad rap, mostly because of the hostages in Iran.  But that wasn't his fault, and he did try to get them out.  The military failed him, and botched the raid.  And, of course, Reagan, Bush and company sabotaged the negotiations (the October surprise).

See no evil: The True Story of a Ground Soldier in the CIA's War on Terrorism

By Robert Baer

I agree that Wilson was very bad, but it is sooo hard to name THE WORST.  So many have been very bad for one reason or another (and usually multiple reasons).  It all depends on your frame of reference.  Nixon's paranoia was very dangerous.  Harding's corruption, Reagan's policies, etc all qualify them  for consideration.  Carter, however, has gotten a bad rap, mostly because of the hostages in Iran.  But that wasn't his fault, and he did try to get them out.  The military failed him, and botched the raid.  And, of course, Reagan, Bush and company sabotaged the negotiations (the October surprise).


I know, for awhile I thought Nixon was bad. But he should've been president in 1960 rather than 1968, and I have doubts with this Bush Administration, especially what was going on with the bailouts.

Bush is a real-life Charlie Brown, he can't do anything right.

I know, for awhile I thought Nixon was bad. But he should've been president in 1960 rather than 1968, and I have doubts with this Bush Administration, especially what was going on with the bailouts.

Bush is a real-life Charlie Brown, he can't do anything right.


I'll agree with you on Nixon.  OK I go as far as to say he never should have been in the White House.

Bush is not a real-life Charlie Brown.  Charlie Brown had a conscience and a cute dog.  Bush has no conscience and Dick Cheney.

I'll agree with you on Nixon.  OK I go as far as to say he never should have been in the White House.

Bush is not a real-life Charlie Brown.  Charlie Brown had a conscience and a cute dog.  Bush has no conscience and Dick Cheney.


Actually, Dick Cheney is the worst president. 

Actually, Dick Cheney is the worst president. 


I stand corrected.

I'll agree with you on Nixon.  OK I go as far as to say he never should have been in the White House.

Bush is not a real-life Charlie Brown.  Charlie Brown had a conscience and a cute dog.  Bush has no conscience and Dick Cheney.


Not as a conscience-level or having a Beagle, that's not what I meant.

What I meant was Charlie Brown can't do anything right and is considered a Block-head.

Bush is un-conscience if you know what I'm saying, like King Midas in Reverse. (Yes, I made a parody of that song right here. http://www.amiright.com/parody/60s/hollies8.shtml)

Jimmeh Cawtah is shaking his head in disbelief at what kind of crap the Bush administration has pulled.  Nice to see he's still stating his opinions.


Jimmeh Carwtah = Israel Hater

That's what FOX News is all about!

Jimmeh: No, no, ah was just tryin' to say....
Hannity (Ha! Nutty!): Shut up!, you Israel Hater!

And that's the final word, ladies and gents!
:D

No James Buchanan?  He was unable to avert the Civil War and the secession of the Southern states started under his watch while he did nothing.

Taken from Wikipedia.  Screw you guys who say Wikipedia isn't credible, sources back this entry up and studies show wikipedia is about as accurate as Encyclopedia Britannica.

Before Buchanan left office, seven slave states seceded, the Confederacy was formed, all arsenals and forts in the seceded states were lost (except Fort Sumter and two remote ones), and a fourth of all federal soldiers surrendered to Texas troops. The government decided to hold on to Fort Sumter, which was located in Charleston harbor, a visible spot in the Confederacy. On January 5, Buchanan sent a civilian steamer Star of the West to carry reinforcements and supplies to Fort Sumter. On January 9, 1861, South Carolina state batteries opened fire on the Star of the West, which returned to New York. Paralyzed, Buchanan made no further moves to prepare for war.

As bad as some of the other presidents were, Buchanan is the absolute worst.

I'd also like to add that Nixon is nowhere near the worst president.  He was a despicable, corrupt, and power hungry man, but he isn't the worst like so many say.  He isn't even in the bottom five.

Bottom Five (in no real order except for #1):
1.  James Buchanan
2.  Woodrow Wilson (why this man has any reputation at all is beyond me)
3.  Warren Harding (corrupt and didn't accomplish much.  At least Nixon accomplished some good things despite his personal corruption)
4.  Andrew Johnson (bungled Reconstruction, racist whose policies helped result in an extra 100 years of second class status for black people)
5.  Franklin Pierce (utter incompetent who wound up being rejected by his own party for a second term.  Only time in US history that has ever happened)

Bottom Five (in no real order except for #1):
1.  James Buchanan
2.  Woodrow Wilson (why this man has any reputation at all is beyond me)
3.  Warren Harding (corrupt and didn't accomplish much.  At least Nixon accomplished some good things despite his personal corruption)
4.  Andrew Johnson (bungled Reconstruction, racist whose policies helped result in an extra 100 years of second class status for black people)
5.  Franklin Pierce (utter incompetent who wound up being rejected by his own party for a second term.  Only time in US history that has ever happened)


True about Pierce, with Bush the Republicans never discouraged him to run again. (If that was the case, we would've had McCain vs. Kerry.)

IMO-The 'worst' president debate will always live on.

No James Buchanan?  He was unable to avert the Civil War and the secession of the Southern states started under his watch while he did nothing.

Taken from Wikipedia.  Screw you guys who say Wikipedia isn't credible, sources back this entry up and studies show wikipedia is about as accurate as Encyclopedia Britannica.

As bad as some of the other presidents were, Buchanan is the absolute worst.

I'd also like to add that Nixon is nowhere near the worst president.  He was a despicable, corrupt, and power hungry man, but he isn't the worst like so many say.  He isn't even in the bottom five.

Bottom Five (in no real order except for #1):
1.  James Buchanan
2.  Woodrow Wilson (why this man has any reputation at all is beyond me)
3.  Warren Harding (corrupt and didn't accomplish much.  At least Nixon accomplished some good things despite his personal corruption)
4.  Andrew Johnson (bungled Reconstruction, racist whose policies helped result in an extra 100 years of second class status for black people)
5.  Franklin Pierce (utter incompetent who wound up being rejected by his own party for a second term.  Only time in US history that has ever happened)


Had it not been for Buchanan the Civil War would have happened in 1854.  He couldn't have stopped it if he tried.

I've seen some of Buchanan's personal papers.  I used to live near Wheatland.  (If you don't know what that is, look it up.)

I'd take his personal papers over Wikipedia any day.

Had it not been for Buchanan the Civil War would have happened in 1854.  He couldn't have stopped it if he tried.

I've seen some of Buchanan's personal papers.  I used to live near Wheatland.  (If you don't know what that is, look it up.)

I'd take his personal papers over Wikipedia any day.




True, the Civil War was bound to happen, the slaveocracy wouldn't have had it any other way.  They would not have been happy until they were able to gain total control of everything surrounding them.

True, the Civil War was bound to happen, the slaveocracy wouldn't have had it any other way.  They would not have been happy until they were able to gain total control of everything surrounding them.


Well, they did want the new territories to be slave states.  People also think we kept the transatlantic slaver routes open until the civil war.  We hadn't had an (legally) African-imports. 

By the 1850s, you had some slaves so pale they could pass for white!
::)

Well, they did want the new territories to be slave states.  People also think we kept the transatlantic slaver routes open until the civil war.  We hadn't had an (legally) African-imports. 

By the 1850s, you had some slaves so pale they could pass for white!
::)


Long before that.  The Sally Hemings story is all that

Had it not been for Buchanan the Civil War would have happened in 1854.  He couldn't have stopped it if he tried.

I've seen some of Buchanan's personal papers.  I used to live near Wheatland.  (If you don't know what that is, look it up.)

I'd take his personal papers over Wikipedia any day.




I do agree that the Civil War was inevitable in the end.  However, that doesn't change the fact that I still think of Buchanan as a weak and inefficient president who could've done much more than he did to, at the very least, make the situation a little bit better.  Now, I don't know much of his personality aside from his pro-slaveowner's rights views.  Other than that, he may very well have been a good man.  That doesn't stop him from being a terrible president though.  

Herbert Hoover and Jimmy Carter were good men, but that didn't stop their presidencies form being total disasters, although I must admit that I do like some of Carter's views on energy policy that were unfortunately abandoned by Reagan once the energy crisis was over and the measures were deemed unnecessary by the new administration.

Long before that.  The Sally Hemings story is all that


Thomas Jefferson got himself into a bind there.  Breading with slaves was illegal at the time.  He did eventually free all of them.  Wasn't Sally in his will?

I do agree that the Civil War was inevitable in the end.  However, that doesn't change the fact that I still think of Buchanan as a weak and inefficient president who could've done much more than he did to, at the very least, make the situation a little bit better.  Now, I don't know much of his personality aside from his pro-slaveowner's rights views.  Other than that, he may very well have been a good man.  That doesn't stop him from being a terrible president though.  

Herbert Hoover and Jimmy Carter were good men, but that didn't stop their presidencies form being total disasters, although I must admit that I do like some of Carter's views on energy policy that were unfortunately abandoned by Reagan once the energy crisis was over and the measures were deemed unnecessary by the new administration.


Strangely enough someone from my Access Club would say Bush, Carter, and Hoover were the worst Presidents...in his opinion.

To me...it would be Carter. I know it was Nixon, but he was out of his prime when elected.

Strangely enough someone from my Access Club would say Bush, Carter, and Hoover were the worst Presidents...in his opinion.

To me...it would be Carter. I know it was Nixon, but he was out of his prime when elected.


???  Out of his prime? Nixon went into office at the age of 59. 

???  Out of his prime? Nixon went into office at the age of 59. 


And Nixon called Don Rumsfeld (then age 35) a "ruthless sonofabitch."  Tricky Dick would know!
::)

And Nixon called Don Rumsfeld (then age 35) a "ruthless sonofabitch."  Tricky Dick would know!
::)


Nixon was a pretty good judge of character gotta hand that to him.

Thomas Jefferson got himself into a bind there.  Breading with slaves was illegal at the time.  He did eventually free all of them.  Wasn't Sally in his will?



He did not free them all. He wanted to but he couldn't afford to do it. George Washington freed his slaves upon his death but not Jefferson. I think he freed Sally & her brother Jimmy upon his death but that was it.



Cat

Nixon was a pretty good judge of character gotta hand that to him.

Nixon was quite dramatic talking about what spoiled little sh*t Bobby Kennedy was; how horibble was Bobby abusing the Cuban servants and thowing his dinner against the wall!  He hated Bobby Kennedy so much, it makes me wonder if he ever met a man named Sirhan!

Bobby's turnaround didn't happen until the year before they offed him!  I mean, yeah, when Tricky Dick knew him, he prolly was "horrible" and a "spoiled little sh*t."
::)

My old man (a staunch leftist with Nixonian paranoia) haaaated the Kennedys!  He once described RFK as a "whiny little bastard on real macho trip!"  Well, that does describe our Bobby a bit, doesn't it?  But people give him so little credit for the dramatic revelations he had hanging with Caesar Chavez and all that stuff when he was running for prez!
::)

Thomas Jefferson got himself into a bind there.  Breeding with slaves was illegal at the time.  He did eventually free all of them.  Wasn't Sally in his will?




He did not free them all. He wanted to but he couldn't afford to do it. George Washington freed his slaves upon his death but not Jefferson. I think he freed Sally & her brother Jimmy upon his death but that was it.

Cat




Raping slaves was illegal, but we all know that was a law that was not enforced by any means. It was pretty much expected that the slave owner would have a couple of very young slaves that just happened to have any uncanny resemblance to their owners.

The only slaves Jefferson freed were the children he had with Sally.  Sally wasn't in his will but, the story is, his daughter Patsy saw to it that Sally was provided with a home and didn't have to live as a slave, although she was never freed.  To be freed would have meant that she would have had to leave Virginia, I believe they gave freed slaves 24 hours to start walking.

James Hemings freed himself when Jefferson took him to Paris.  France allowed political asylum for American slaves.

Raping slaves was illegal, but we all know that was a law that was not enforced by any means. It was pretty much expected that the slave owner would have a couple of very young slaves that just happened to have any uncanny resemblance to their owners.

The only slaves Jefferson freed were the children he had with Sally.  Sally wasn't in his will but, the story is, his daughter Patsy saw to it that Sally was provided with a home and didn't have to live as a slave, although she was never freed.  To be freed would have meant that she would have had to leave Virginia, I believe they gave freed slaves 24 hours to start walking.

James Hemings freed himself when Jefferson took him to Paris.  France allowed political asylum for American slaves.

That's what I was alluding to earlier.  The legal transatlantic slave market was gone after 1808.  Those voyages were long, expensive, dangerous, politically controversial, and a lot of the cargo died because they didn't understand why they couldn't stack human beings like cordwood.  On the other hand, you had a gene stock of many millions available throughout the Americas already.  They could still trade from the Caribbean and Latin America.  And they could make their own!
::)

Raping slaves was illegal, but we all know that was a law that was not enforced by any means. It was pretty much expected that the slave owner would have a couple of very young slaves that just happened to have any uncanny resemblance to their owners.

The only slaves Jefferson freed were the children he had with Sally.  Sally wasn't in his will but, the story is, his daughter Patsy saw to it that Sally was provided with a home and didn't have to live as a slave, although she was never freed.  To be freed would have meant that she would have had to leave Virginia, I believe they gave freed slaves 24 hours to start walking.

James Hemings freed himself when Jefferson took him to Paris.  France allowed political asylum for American slaves.



I knew you would know the story better than I did-in fact, I told Carlos after I posted that, that you would correct me if I got my facts wrong.  ;)


Karma to you.

Edited to add-I owe you a karma.  ;)


Cat

Nixon was quite dramatic talking about what spoiled little sh*t Bobby Kennedy was; how horibble was Bobby abusing the Cuban servants and thowing his dinner against the wall!  He hated Bobby Kennedy so much, it makes me wonder if he ever met a man named Sirhan!

Bobby's turnaround didn't happen until the year before they offed him!  I mean, yeah, when Tricky Dick knew him, he prolly was "horrible" and a "spoiled little sh*t."
::)

My old man (a staunch leftist with Nixonian paranoia) haaaated the Kennedys!  He once described RFK as a "whiny little bastard on real macho trip!"  Well, that does describe our Bobby a bit, doesn't it?  But people give him so little credit for the dramatic revelations he had hanging with Caesar Chavez and all that stuff when he was running for prez!
::)



The Kennedy's were spoiled.  It wouldn't surprise me if he did know Sirhan.  Nixon was just as underhanded as J. Edger Hoover.  Nixon hated the rich kid mentality, however his kids have the same. 

Bobby appealed to everyone which pissed some people off.  He was probably the first Presidential candidate who reached out to minorities on their own terms.

The Kennedy's were spoiled.  It wouldn't surprise me if he did know Sirhan.  Nixon was just as underhanded as J. Edger Hoover.  Nixon hated the rich kid mentality, however his kids have the same. 

Bobby appealed to everyone which pissed some people off.  He was probably the first Presidential candidate who reached out to minorities on their own terms.


If Bobby got elected president, maybe Teddy would have been somewhere other than Chappaquiddick that day!
::)

PS. I love the way Mr. C. assumed we'd all say Bush!  I know I would!
8-P

If Bobby got elected president, maybe Teddy would have been somewhere other than Chappaquiddick that day!
::)

PS. I love the way Mr. C. assumed we'd all say Bush!  I know I would!
8-P


Yep, I feel the same way....Just put him out to Pasture....At least in Crawford. :P

Yep, I feel the same way....Just put him out to Pasture....At least in Crawford. :P



Put him out of our misery.



Cat

Put him out of our misery.



Cat


I'm not like Morrissey, I just want him to leave the White House and let him stay in his Texas House and do what Texans do.

Put him out of our misery.



Cat


Where's Cheney and his gun when you need him?

Where's Cheney and his gun when you need him?


That could be a line in a Morrissey song!
:D

I knew you would know the story better than I did-in fact, I told Carlos after I posted that, that you would correct me if I got my facts wrong.  ;)


Karma to you.

Edited to add-I owe you a karma.  ;)


Cat


I have kinda gone all wonky on this stuff. karmathanks  :)

I'm not like Morrissey, I just want him to leave the White House and let him stay in his Texas House and do what Texans do.



I want him to go the BIG house not his Texas house. He & Cheney would look in a orange jumpsuit.



Cat

I want him to go the BIG house not his Texas house. He & Cheney would look in a orange jumpsuit.



Cat


The same one, together, Siamese twin-style?  Sounds like the start of a musical!
:P

I want him to go the BIG house not his Texas house. He & Cheney would look in a orange jumpsuit.



Cat


I thought they were trying to shut down Guantanamo.

I thought they were trying to shut down Guantanamo.


George W. Bush      Dick Cheney

                 in

Guantanamo Bay Holiday

Introducing Alberto Gonzalez as Calypso Al!

:-\\

George W. Bush      Dick Cheney

                 in

Guantanamo Bay Holiday

Introducing Alberto Gonzalez as Calypso Al!

:-\\



Will Rice, Rumsfeld, and Powell be with them?