Many people think that we are in the shadows of Fascism. I would say that we are in a Nationalist State of mind because even though Mussolini was in power in 1922, he didn't become fearful until 1935 when he invaded Ethiopia and met up with Hitler.

If Bush is a Fascist...should we hang him upside-down after his 2nd-Term with his father, his family, and his cabinet?

So, what are the 14 signs of Fascism? Or is this a trick thread?

Ant

I'll start

Elections without paper trails

U.S. Supreme Court ruling on an issue that only pertained to one individual.

Rights guaranteed by the Constitution being suspended.




Cat

The extension of eminent domain to include giving property to private endeavors (Kelo vs. City of New London).

But yeah, America dabbles in fascism from time to time, but I really don't think we'll ever go off the deep end.

Look at our past.  We passed Prohibition, but after a few years, we revoked it realizing that it was a really stupid idea.  The Red Scare allowed the government to ruin the careers and lives of thousands of people, but eventually, we kicked people like McCarthy out of office.

So, we have a history of making authoritarian mistakes, but we always seem to fix them in the end.  As many complaints as I have with our system, I have to admit that our checks and balances do eventually work things out most of the time.

The extension of eminent domain to include giving property to private endeavors (Kelo vs. City of New London).

But yeah, America dabbles in fascism from time to time, but I really don't think we'll ever go off the deep end.

Look at our past.  We passed Prohibition, but after a few years, we revoked it realizing that it was a really stupid idea.  The Red Scare allowed the government to ruin the careers and lives of thousands of people, but eventually, we kicked people like McCarthy out of office.

So, we have a history of making authoritarian mistakes, but we always seem to fix them in the end.  As many complaints as I have with our system, I have to admit that our checks and balances do eventually work things out most of the time.


Never say never.  If you do you are making it easy for them.

The extension of eminent domain to include giving property to private endeavors (Kelo vs. City of New London).

But yeah, America dabbles in fascism from time to time, but I really don't think we'll ever go off the deep end.

Look at our past.  We passed Prohibition, but after a few years, we revoked it realizing that it was a really stupid idea.  The Red Scare allowed the government to ruin the careers and lives of thousands of people, but eventually, we kicked people like McCarthy out of office.

So, we have a history of making authoritarian mistakes, but we always seem to fix them in the end.  As many complaints as I have with our system, I have to admit that our checks and balances do eventually work things out most of the time.


  Yep.  The 1950s and early 60s, which were really bad times.  America woke up and corrected itself...

14 POINTS OF FASCISM


1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism

From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights

The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause

The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism

Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism

Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media

Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security

Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together

Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected

Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts

Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment

Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption

Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections

Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

Any questions?


NOTE: The above 14 Points was written in 2004 by Dr. Laurence Britt, a political scientist. Dr. Britt studied the fascist regimes of: Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile).

Taking a quick score of each category using a 1 to 10 scale, 10 meaning "extremely fascist", I came up with a total of 89 out of a possible 140 points.

Any others want to score this boxing match?

Ant

Taking a quick score of each category using a 1 to 10 scale, 10 meaning "extremely fascist", I came up with a total of 89 out of a possible 140 points.

Any others want to score this boxing match?

Ant






Our fascism is much more sophisticated.  You don't have to suppress opinions so long as you can make them not matter.  Why oppose women and minorities rising to political power when you can support ones who think and act exactly like conservative white men?  You can't lose!  Even the great prognosticator Orwell gave the folks too much credit.  He thought there needed to be somebody watching you from the other side of the telescreen for you to obey what it says!

If you read the 14 Points literally, you'll come out with a much lower score.  This isn't Mussolini's fascism.  This isn't Pinochet's fascism.  This is Frank Luntz' fascism!
:D

Our fascism is much more sophisticated.  You don't have to suppress opinions so long as you can make them not matter.  Why oppose women and minorities rising to political power when you can support ones who think and act exactly like conservative white men?  You can't lose!  Even the great prognosticator Orwell gave the folks too much credit.  He thought there needed to be somebody watching you from the other side of the telescreen for you to obey what it says!

If you read the 14 Points literally, you'll come out with a much lower score.  This isn't Mussolini's fascism.  This isn't Pinochet's fascism.  This is Frank Luntz' fascism!
:D


I read them as they apply right now. Most of my scores were in the 6 range - a few were scored 2s (though no lower), but I did score #7 a solid 10 (the only 10).

I think I scored #5 a 3, so I see what you are saying.

Ant

14 POINTS OF FASCISM


1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism

From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights

The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause

The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism

Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism

Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media

Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security

Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together

Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected

Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts

Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment

Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption

Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections

Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

Any questions?


NOTE: The above 14 Points was written in 2004 by Dr. Laurence Britt, a political scientist. Dr. Britt studied the fascist regimes of: Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile).




Thanks. I would like to see the 14 Signs of Communism. Mind if I digress a little?...

1-I haven't seen U.S. Flags out lately in every backyard. If I was in Texas, it might be a different story.

2-We're in a slow progress with this one. I have autism, and I'm not institutonalized because of the American Disabilities Act.

3-This one is a never-ending cycle. In the 30's, it was Gansters. In the 40's, it was Nazis. In the 50's, it was the Communists (Remember Charlie Chaplin?). In the 60's, it was the Hippies. It calmed-down for awhile, but Regan was unpopular because of this. Bush is a Reganist Republican.

4-It's been calming down lately. WWII was more agressive about this.

5-Why is Pelosi our Speaker now? If that's true, Pelosi and Rice would not be in their positions. And the Roe vs. Wade debate still goes on.

6-They've been doing this since the 90's. CNN leans towards the left and FOX leans towards the right.

7-Did Truman ever dabble into this in the 50's?

8-I've never seen Hitler or Mussolini protect their religion. And with our new leaders for '08, they're using this as a tool to attack the opponents.

9-Sounds Communist to me as well as Fascist. But I will agree with FOX.

10-I think Unions did that to themselves. Remember Jimmy Hoffa?

11-Two Words..."American Idiot". This also happened in the 60's as well.

12-I'm not arrested yet nor my friends who are Liberal. And yes, this happened in the 50's with Joe McCarthy.

13-This is one reason why John Kerry would have never been a good President. He had Heinz Corp. which may have corruption as well.

14-Some people should never handle Ballots. Even JFK didn't get in there honestly.