I noticed at the end of the now infamous healthcare thread that GWBush2004 said the following: "Only 4% of the American population is gay, lesbian or bisexual.  It's not some 50-50 split or even an 80-20 one nationwide.  Gays are in a very, very small minority.  Groups with larger demographics get less sway in government schools."

This is an interesting statement, and he even provided a link to seemingly verify this.  I used to think this kind of thing was true, but I often wonder if we're greatly underestimating the amount of gays and bisexuals in society.  After all, the only way to really record this statistic is through people's personal admissions.  Since a lot of people are likely to be in the closet about this (for various and often understandable reasons), wouldn't it seem like maybe the true stat is much higher?

What do you guys think?

Yeah I'm not sure how they would track this. It's not like you're filling out a questionnaire on your Social Security card. STRAIGHT/GAY/BI.
It's not just the people in the closet... Look at how many people are in denial. 

This whole I'm not gay I just have sex on the downlow thing is total crap. If you're having sex with both genders then at the very least you're bi 

Look at all of the right-wing conservatives who have come out of the woodwork lately. All loudly opposed to gay rights only later to find themselves caught up in a same-sex scandal.  Senator Craig anyone?  How about that preacher whats-his-name!

Those who are gay are still apprehensive about saying it.  Being that some misunderstanding people will treat them for the worse.  This is one reason why I don't buy GW poll.

BTW karma for making this a separate topic.  Had to lock mine.

Yeah I'm not sure how they would track this. It's not like you're filling out a questionnaire on your Social Security card. STRAIGHT/GAY/BI.
It's not just the people in the closet... Look at how many people are in denial. 

This whole I'm not gay I just have sex on the downlow thing is total crap. If you're having sex with both genders then at the very least you're bi 

Look at all of the right-wing conservatives who have come out of the woodwork lately. All loudly opposed to gay rights only later to find themselves caught up in a same-sex scandal.  Senator Craig anyone?  How about that preacher whats-his-name!


The guy's name is Ted Hagardy.

I think the best way to do it is to take a sample of 100... say for convenience, the U.S senate... and then see how many of them are gay.

Around 12 would be the best current estimate, whether they know it or not yet.  ;)

The guy's name is Ted Hagardy.


Haggard...  but thanks for the support...  have some karma...  :)

I think the best way to do it is to take a sample of 100... say for convenience, the U.S senate... and then see how many of them are gay.

Around 12 would be the best current estimate, whether they know it or not yet.  ;)


LOL...  yeah, just look for the really anti-gay ones.  There would appear to be many self-hating gays among the far right-wing.

In all seriousness though, I would think a sample group of millions would be best, but even then, you still can't get past the denial thing.

LOL...  yeah, just look for the really anti-gay ones.  There would be appear to be many self-hating gays among the far right-wing.

In all seriousness though, I would think a sample group of millions would be best, but even then, you still can't get past the denial thing.


Correct, It's impossible to.

Just sitting thinking of people I know personally.. I can think of about 7 Gays or Lesbians.

I think the best way to do it is to take a sample of 100... say for convenience, the U.S senate... and then see how many of them are gay.

Around 12 would be the best current estimate, whether they know it or not yet.  ;)


that's my question... there are people I know who I would swear are gay but don't seem to know it themselves (forgive the stereotyping- I use the Danny Pintauro test) Danny Pintauro from Who's the Boss (or Lance Bass if you need a newer reference) These are guys that didn't surprise me when they came out. You could look at Danny at 6 years old and see he was gay.

So back to my question. The question is- If they are "apparently" gay but "don't know it" then are they in denial or they really don't know?

I was at lunch with friends, one of whom passed my Danny Pintauro test. He's rather effeminate but no one ever talked to me about his sexuality. I made an assumption I shouldn't have but I still I thought he was gay (I still think he's gay so I guess I thought he was out)  We were in line for food and he made eye contact with a male behind the counter.  It wasn't normal eye contact it was "knowing" eye contact.  The only way to describe it is, I am a black woman in a predominately white town. Whenever two black people meet in a place where they are the only ones a little head nod is exchanged.... I see you do you see me... yeah? Cool.... and then we go on about our business. It's very subtle- most of you probably never even noticed it.  The exchange I saw was like that. 

Anyway (again I thought he was out)  I said "AWWW they shared a moment!"  It was nothing I wouldn't have said to my other gay friends (straight friends for that matter) but he shot me a look that said he wasn't out. I shut up and left it alone figuring he was gay but in.  I asked a friend about it later who knew him better than I did. She said-he's not gay so&so is his girlfriend. 

So am I wrong or am I just early in my observations?

LOL...  yeah, just look for the really anti-gay ones.  There would appear to be many self-hating gays among the far right-wing.

In all seriousness though, I would think a sample group of millions would be best, but even then, you still can't get past the denial thing.


Karma to you

that's my question... there are people I know who I would swear are gay but don't seem to know it themselves (forgive the stereotyping- I use the Danny Pintauro test) Danny Pintauro from Who's the Boss (or Lance Bass if you need a newer reference) These are guys that didn't surprise me when they came out. You could look at Danny at 6 years old and see he was gay.

So back to my question. The question is- If they are "apparently" gay but "don't know it" then are they in denial or they really don't know?

I was at lunch with friends, one of whom passed my Danny Pintauro test. He's rather effeminate but no one ever talked to me about his sexuality. I made an assumption I shouldn't have but I still I thought he was gay (I still think he's gay so I guess I thought he was out)  We were in line for food and he made eye contact with a male behind the counter.  It wasn't normal eye contact it was "knowing" eye contact.  The only way to describe it is, I am a black woman in a predominately white town. Whenever two black people meet in a place where they are the only ones a little head nod is exchanged.... I see you do you see me... yeah? Cool.... and then we go on about our business. It's very subtle- most of you probably never even noticed it.  The exchange I saw was like that. 

Anyway (again I thought he was out)  I said "AWWW they shared a moment!"  It was nothing I wouldn't have said to my other gay friends (straight friends for that matter) but he shot me a look that said he wasn't out. I shut up and left it alone figuring he was gay but in.  I asked a friend about it later who knew him better than I did. She said-he's not gay so&so is his girlfriend. 

So am I wrong or am I just early in my observations?


Did you do that with Neil Patrick Harris too?  I've got one heck of a gaydar.  When they come out of the closet, no shock . . . no big deal.

Another thing is location...  I would think that people would be more open about their sexuality in more tolerant environments, so this would seem to be why urban areas have higher gay percentages than rural areas.  San Francisco has, of course, become famous for having one of the largest gay populations in the country, but it makes you wonder if certain other areas have a higher percentage of gays among the population -- they just haven't felt safe enough to open up.

Granted, it could also be a case where many gays move to the more tolerant areas, which would result in higher populations in said urban areas.

I don't mean to further any stereotypes, but when T.R. Knight came out, it really didn't surprise me.

Yeah pretty much. Neil wasn't too much of a shocker.

I mean sometimes I hate to say it because you don't want to stereotype but with some people you just know. Is there a sensitive to way to draw these conclusions? 

Yeah pretty much. Neil wasn't too much of a shocker.

I mean sometimes I hate to say it because you don't want to stereotype but with some people you just know. Is there a sensitive to way to draw these conclusions? 

It is difficult to do that sometimes.  I went to college in a town where the environment is pretty tolerant, so most gay people were open about it there.  Asheville, NC is often seen as the "San Francisco of the east."  Also, my hometown (Greensboro, NC) has a state college with a high gay population.

The weird thing is...  Both Asheville and Greensboro also have large religious conservative populations, so while being open areas, there is some considerable conflict going on as well.

Karma to you as well...  :)

Yeah pretty much. Neil wasn't too much of a shocker.

I mean sometimes I hate to say it because you don't want to stereotype but with some people you just know. Is there a sensitive to way to draw these conclusions? 








Philadelphia just appointed their first openly gay judge.  My parents have been friends with his parents since the 70's.  Both families are Catholic.  My Mother's only response was "guess all those years in Law School paid off".  I added "Mom, he's gay".  She shrugged and said that she knew back when he was 15.  So it's becoming less and less of a big deal.

Another thing is location...  I would think that people would be more open about their sexuality in more tolerant environments, so this would seem to be why urban areas have higher gay percentages than rural areas.  San Francisco has, of course, become famous for having one of the largest gay populations in the country, but it makes you wonder if certain other areas have a higher percentage of gays among the population -- they just haven't felt safe enough to open up.

Granted, it could also be a case where many gays move to the more tolerant areas, which would result in higher populations in said urban areas.

I don't mean to further any stereotypes, but when T.R. Knight came out, it really didn't surprise me.


Hell, if you lived down there in deepest darkest redneck backwards retarded azz Alabama, would you come out as gay?

Agreed...  The good news is that, even though NC gets a reputation for being in the middle of the Bible Belt, we're more tolerant of gays than you might otherwise expect.  Although I would advise any gay person to avoid the more rural areas....  :(

Philadelphia just appointed their first openly gay judge.  My parents have been friends with his parents since the 70's.  Both families are Catholic.  My Mother's only response was "guess all those years in Law School paid off".  I added "Mom, he's gay".  She shrugged and said that she knew back when he was 15.  So it's becoming less and less of a big deal.


I think its sad that Gays and fat people are the two minorities left people think its okay to make fun of...

I think its sad that Gays and fat people are the two minorities left people think its okay to make fun of...


Are overweight people really a minority in America?

Are overweight people really a minority in America?


Culturally, yes.

Are overweight people really a minority in America?


We're treated like we are

I've been ridiculed more for my weight than my race

people see it as being okay to ridicule gays because of what the bible and other religious text say.

it sucks not to have these things on your side  :-\\.

i'm saying this, and i'm an atheist.

I would guess the % of the population that is g/l/bi is probably ~10%.

It shouldn't matter at all if someone is gay, straight or bi. Coming out of the closest is as absurd an idea to me as admitting you prefer peanut butter and mayonnaise over ham sandwiches or have sex on the dining room table instead of the bed (i.e., engaging in a act/practice that does not affect anyone negatively): iow, it's totally unnecessary and irrelevant in a functioning society.

Of course, society is anything but functional, and until gays/lesbians have the same basic rights (or, more aptly, priveledges) as everyone else (marriage for starters*), they need to, err, have to make themselves known to achieve what others take for granted.

Regarding G/L marriage, the argument I so often hear is that "it would hurt the sanctity of marriage..". Sanctity of mariage? Give me a break. 60% of marriages end in divorce, and my and Nicole's marriage isn't threatened or harmed one bit if a same sex couple ties the knot.

I'd elaborate more on this, but I already see it heading into a religious debate, and I don't have the time or inclination for such a thing at the moment.

Ant

I would guess the % of the population that is g/l/bi is probably ~10%.

It shouldn't matter at all if someone is gay, straight or bi. Coming out of the closest is as absurd an idea to me as admitting you prefer peanut butter and mayonnaise over ham sandwiches or have sex on the dining room table instead of the bed (i.e., engaging in a act/practice that does not affect anyone negatively): iow, it's totally unnecessary and irrelevant in a functioning society.

Of course, society is anything but functional, and until gays/lesbians have the same basic rights (or, more aptly, priveledges) as everyone else (marriage for starters*), they need to, err, have to make themselves known to achieve what others take for granted.

Regarding G/L marriage, the argument I so often hear is that "it would hurt the sanctity of marriage..". Sanctity of mariage? Give me a break. 60% of marriages end in divorce, and my and Nicole's marriage isn't threatened or harmed one bit if a same sex couple ties the knot.

I'd elaborate more on this, but I already see it heading into a religious debate, and I don't have the time or inclination for such a thing at the moment.

Ant


I think its higher than 10% I don't know why it just feels higher than than

I'm in Massachusetts in an urban setting.  Gay/Straight/Bi/Transgender  who cares?  Some do, most don't anymore.  Gay marriage?  There was a hue and a cry, but it seem to have died down and the ones who really couldn't stand the idea of it and picketed and preached the end of the world are getting on with their lives as they did before gay marriage, like the rest of us.

If you operate anywhere within the creative arts and you're hung up about homosexuality, you're going to be terribly uncomfortable.  Half or more of my favorite composers are/were gay.  Why do the arts attract so many gays?  I don't think it matters.  Just the way it is.

If 2% of the population is gay rather than 10% (or %20 as the GLBTA at my university used to claim) does it make being gay any less legitimate?  I don't think so.

Discrimination against gays is much less acceptable than it was 20 or 30 years ago.  Fewer and fewer people care what your sexual orientation is. The anti-gay bigots are loud and shrill nowadays because they are losing their battle. 

Gay marriage and "what about the children?" is a red herring.  The idea that gay marriage/gay adoption is some kind of a threat to the family is prespammersite. 

What percentage of couples are gay?
What percentage of gay couples want to get married?
What pecentatge of gay couples want to get married and adopt children?

Compare that to the 50+ percent of "straight" marriages, and "straight" marriages with children are getting divorced, engaging in infidelity, and so forth.  You cannot tell me that the handful of gay couples who want to marry and raise children are a threat to anything.  It's just another excuse for bigotry.

Based on the various home remodeling shows that you see on TV (other than Extreme Home Makeover) I would estimate that about 50% pf the popultion is gay.  (Well, actually 25% gay and 25% lesbian).

that's my question... there are people I know who I would swear are gay but don't seem to know it themselves (forgive the stereotyping- I use the Danny Pintauro test) Danny Pintauro from Who's the Boss (or Lance Bass if you need a newer reference) These are guys that didn't surprise me when they came out. You could look at Danny at 6 years old and see he was gay.

So back to my question. The question is- If they are "apparently" gay but "don't know it" then are they in denial or they really don't know?

I was at lunch with friends, one of whom passed my Danny Pintauro test. He's rather effeminate but no one ever talked to me about his sexuality. I made an assumption I shouldn't have but I still I thought he was gay (I still think he's gay so I guess I thought he was out)  We were in line for food and he made eye contact with a male behind the counter.  It wasn't normal eye contact it was "knowing" eye contact.  The only way to describe it is, I am a black woman in a predominately white town. Whenever two black people meet in a place where they are the only ones a little head nod is exchanged.... I see you do you see me... yeah? Cool.... and then we go on about our business. It's very subtle- most of you probably never even noticed it.  The exchange I saw was like that. 

Anyway (again I thought he was out)  I said "AWWW they shared a moment!"  It was nothing I wouldn't have said to my other gay friends (straight friends for that matter) but he shot me a look that said he wasn't out. I shut up and left it alone figuring he was gay but in.  I asked a friend about it later who knew him better than I did. She said-he's not gay so&so is his girlfriend. 

So am I wrong or am I just early in my observations?



Danny Pintauro is gay? Really. That doesn't surprise me. 


As a teenager, I did summer stock. It seems at least 50% of those in theatre are gay-it was never a big deal. There was this one guy who everyone assumed was gay-until we saw him in the parking lot with his girlfriend. I mean, these 2 people really needed to get a room  :o :o :o  Everyone was shock & surprised. We all said, "Wow. I thought he was gay." The other person would say, "Yeah, so did I."



Cat

Are overweight people really a minority in America?

Good point...  it is estimated that around 75% of the American population is overweight.  Around 25% are obese.

So there may come a point where skinny people like myself will be ridiculed for not being fat...  :o

Discrimination against gays is much less acceptable than it was 20 or 30 years ago.  Fewer and fewer people care what your sexual orientation is. The anti-gay bigots are loud and shrill nowadays because they are losing their battle. 

I hope so.  It's always seemed so terribly pointless to get hung up on somebody's sexuality - after all, if you're not interested in that person (or that person's partner) in a sexual way, then why does it have anything to do with you whatsoever?


So there may come a point where skinny people like myself will be ridiculed for not being fat...   :o

Fat chance

;)

Fat chance

;)


You're really good at bad puns...

My children say "really bad" - am I right in thinking that kids of today use "bad" to mean "good"?  (though probably not when referring to Dad's jokes.  Unfortunately)

Puns are supposed to be bad though... heh

So there may come a point where skinny people like myself will be ridiculed for not being fat...   :o


That day is already here, Mac.  Any model who is skinny is described as "sick" and "unnatural" althogh many of them are, in fact, naturally thin.  (Of course there are some anorexics too)

And not so long ago, Leah Remeni was ridiculng Lara Spencer because Lara had lost her baby fat and was back to her fine self.

You see overweight celebrities talk about thin people as "not being real" because they do not "have curves".  :-\\

Good point...  I guess as a skinny guy, I'm lucky.  I don't know many men who pick on each other for being too thin....  lol

So there may come a point where skinny people like myself will be ridiculed for not being fat...  :o


It's already come tho not as prevalent as people making fun of fat people.

Marsha Warfield (Night Court) "Skinny people piss me off!"
Monique also does routines positive about overweight and negative to underweight
and up-and-coming comedian Jen Kober refers to slim women as "Skinny Bitches"

I think people who are overly skinny are made fun of. You always see way-too-skinny celebrities being made fun of.

I think someone around my age has probably met a lot of gays,plus i've always been involved with dance and it really doesn't get gayer than that :D And working at night you also get to see the "straight by day" types,back in Europe there was a lot of that going on,nightclubs,bars were full of gay couples but during the day they were hiding or something. I have gay friends who tell me that they feel angry sometimes because it seems being gay is just about sex and getting wild...

It's funny here in Rio the gay community is huge and they have a major impact on society,still we are one of the major catholic countries in the world. My mom who is really religious and fairly uptight has at least three friends who are gay and it doesn't bother her at all,even if her priest condemns homosexuality every sunday.That's the thing with catholics they don't listen much to the priests,thank god ;D

I noticed at the end of the now infamous healthcare thread that GWBush2004 said the following: "Only 4% of the American population is gay, lesbian or bisexual.  It's not some 50-50 split or even an 80-20 one nationwide.  Gays are in a very, very small minority.  Groups with larger demographics get less sway in government schools."

This is an interesting statement, and he even provided a link to seemingly verify this.  I used to think this kind of thing was true, but I often wonder if we're greatly underestimating the amount of gays and bisexuals in society.  After all, the only way to really record this statistic is through people's personal admissions.  Since a lot of people are likely to be in the closet about this (for various and often understandable reasons), wouldn't it seem like maybe the true stat is much higher?

What do you guys think?



We're not Iran, so if you're gay be gay! And another thing...video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2403750268484412483&q=gay+landscapers&total=53&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

LOL...  Yeah, Ahmadinejad is an idiot.

Yeah I'm not sure how they would track this. It's not like you're filling out a questionnaire on your Social Security card. STRAIGHT/GAY/BI.
It's not just the people in the closet... Look at how many people are in denial.


"Attention!  Tom Cruise, come out of the closet!  And after he's pulled up his pants, you can bring Senator Larry Craig with you."

"Attention!  Tom Cruise, come out of the closet!  And after he's pulled up his pants, you can bring Senator Larry Craig with you."


And give Karl Rove a big kiss on the way out  ;D

A very interesting and provocative book Sex,Time and Power by Leonard Shlain estimates that over the centuries since the emergence of US, Homo Sapiens, there are an average of 1 in  11 homosexuals in the normal human population.  By the way, the book is a very interesting read, and makes a good deal of sense.  It is controversial  though.  I think, in part because the guy is an MD and not an anthropologist or paleontologist.  Its the old problem in academia.  Outsiders, DON"T TREAD ON MY TURF, especially if you have in sites I don't have.

A very interesting and provocative book Sex,Time and Power by Leonard Shlain estimates that over the centuries since the emergence of US, Homo Sapiens, there are an average of 1 in  11 homosexuals in the normal human population.  By the way, the book is a very interesting read, and makes a good deal of sense.  It is controversial  though.  I think, in part because the guy is an MD and not an anthropologist or paleontologist.  Its the old problem in academia.  Outsiders, DON"T TREAD ON MY TURF, especially if you have in sites I don't have.


Make that 9/11 homosexuals for Rudy!

Do you think in general men are more tolerant about finding out a male friend is gay, or women when one of their friends is a lesbian?

Do you think in general men are more tolerant about finding out a male friend is gay, or women when one of their friends is a lesbian?


Women are much more tolerant. 

Women are much more tolerant. 


Men seem much more convinced that the guy is going hit on them or attack them when the happen to go to the toilets together.

Women are much more tolerant. 


I also heard that Lesbianism turns the guys on.

Women are much more tolerant. 

With the occasional exception


Men seem much more convinced that the guy is going hit on them or attack them when the happen to go to the toilets together.

I've never really understood that fear - it seems especially prevalent in ugly, aging guys who'd be about as attractive as a dose of chlamydia.  Yet they're still worried that they're going to be in the stall next to Larry Craig ;)

I also heard that Lesbianism turns the guys on.
This seems to be true,I also believe that it doesn't bother a women as much as a man. Do you think there environment and where they grew up effects peoples thinking? Are you more tolerant if you grew up in California say compared to Georgia?

I've never really understood that fear - it seems especially prevalent in ugly, aging guys who'd be about as attractive as a dose of chlamydia.  Yet they're still worried that they're going to be in the stall next to Larry Craig ;)


I've actually witnessed that firsthand. It was pretty funny, considering the guy who was paranoid about it had very little to offer, in looks or personality. ::)


This seems to be true,I also believe that it doesn't bother a women as much as a man. Do you think there environment and where they grew up effects peoples thinking? Are you more tolerant if you grew up in California say compared to Georgia?


I grew up in California and I don't give a rip if you're straight, gay, cross dresser, transgendered, whatever. There are more unaccepting people in California than you would think, though.

I grew up in California and I don't give a rip if you're straight, gay, cross dresser, transgendered, whatever. There are more unaccepting people in California than you would think, though.


That's true.  I live in Cali and know lots of intolerant people here. We just have the reputation of being 100% liberal.



I also heard that Lesbianism turns the guys on.


Its funny b/c I was a film studies major and ended up working as a research assistant for one of my professors. The project I worked on was really cool but to get started on this project I had to help her other assistant who was lagging. Unfortunately (for me) this professor taught Porn in addition to pop culture so the alternate project was cataloging all the porn videos.

The porn Research assistant apparently couldn't handle gay porn (and I was having a big issue with the Asian porn) so we traded. Oh I say its funny because when my friends found out I was cataloging porn they were all excited and when I said gay porn they thought it was all the girl on girl stuff but it wasn't.  I was getting kinda tired of them hounding me so I decided give them what they wanted. I told them about this one video I had to watch with two men. Just a little graphic detail shut them up and they never mentioned it again.  ;D

I thought the gay porn was far more erotic than anything else the prof had on her shelf (and I'm not even a gay man  ;) ).