... have seen numerous video clips of murders, torture, police brutality, animal cruelty, beatings, horrific accidents, etc. Great place we have here.  ::)

I thought I had seen the worst the internet can offer, but this video clip (which is not profane, sexual or gory) proved me wrong:

http://www.thankgodi.com/content/view/120/116/

Yes, you should be grateful you got raped, your newborn died, your spouse died, that you have AIDS, and so on.  >:( >:( >:(

This is worse than the crap the Phelps cult spews out - does "Thank God For IEDs" ring a bell?

I'm simply stunned by this clip, especially with such phrases as "TGI had an abortion" and "TGI am gay" - erm, aren't those a bit contradictory with the teachings/views of most religions?  ???

Ant

After only a tiny amount of that, I'm prepared to say:

Thank God I'm an atheist

After watching that...

Thank God my brain still works.

I'm simply stunned by this clip, especially with such phrases as "TGI had an abortion" and "TGI am gay" - erm, aren't those a bit contradictory with the teachings/views of most religions?  ???

Ant




once again, we have a bunch of wackjobs making it bad for the decent religious people.  I can see trying to think positive and move beyond your pain....but to literally thank God for it and act like your life is so much better because that particular thing happened to you....crazy. ::)

once again, we have a bunch of wackjobs making it bad for the decent religious people.  I can see trying to think positive and move beyond your pain....but to literally thank God for it and act like your life is so much better because that particular thing happened to you....crazy. ::)


Quite true, Erin.

Not only are they wackjobs, this is also a scam.  Several sites I saw said the authors had to pay anywhere from $150-$400 to get their stories published - via a "gratitude course".


After only a tiny amount of that, I'm prepared to say:

Thank God I'm an atheist


Sounds like a good "Thank God, I'm a country boy" parody title, though it's contradictory - wouldn't "Thank un-god I'm an athiest" be better?


After watching that...

Thank God my brain still works.


Amen.

Ant

Sounds like a good "Thank God, I'm a country boy" parody title, though it's contradictory - wouldn't "Thank un-god I'm an athiest" be better?
DKTOS... but I'll have a look, as yes, I think it may make a good parody.  And it has to be contradictory: it wouldn't be funny, otherwise :-)

I do have another atheist (well, anti-fundamentalist) rant I'll probably be posting soon... the two could go together.

Yeah we hear a lot about God doesn't give you anything you can't deal with. Tragedies,diseases,pain are suppose to be what makes you stronger...

I actually hate that mentality,the "we have to suffer first in order to obtain happiness",i don't buy it,that's what we tell ourselves in order to survive in this f.up,unfair world. Btw,i love life,i really do,but i'm in need of the happy part now,please God :-\\

Yeah we hear a lot about God doesn't give you anything you can't deal with. Tragedies,diseases,pain are suppose to be what makes you stronger...

I actually hate that mentality,the "we have to suffer first in order to obtain happiness",i don't buy it,that's what we tell ourselves in order to survive in this f.up,unfair world. Btw,i love life,i really do,but i'm in need of the happy part now,please God :-\\


Would a karma point and a smiley help at all?  :)

I hope you see better times ahead soon.

Ant

Would a karma point and a smiley help at all?  :)

I hope you see better times ahead soon.

Ant






Thanks Ant,that was sweet (i'll stroke you too;)).

Thank god I didn't have to see the site, it's been suspended.

Thank god I didn't have to see the site, it's been suspended.


Go team Site Block!  ;D

I first saw that video on another site (one that I could not link here...) - I wouldn't be suprised if the traffic overwhelmed them - or that those scamming bastards got all they could and pulled the plug.

Ant

Go team Site Block!  ;D

I first saw that video on another site (one that I could not link here...) - I wouldn't be suprised if the traffic overwhelmed them - or that those scamming bastards got all they could and pulled the plug.

Ant


O0

Gee, the things I miss when I am on vacation.

8)

I agree though, that it is people like this that give those that are religious a bad name.  Just as it is the "Fundamentalist Atheists" that give other atheists a bad name.

Sounds like a good "Thank God, I'm a country boy" parody title, though it's contradictory - wouldn't "Thank un-god I'm an athiest" be better?

Finished, and submitted.


I agree though, that it is people like this that give those that are religious a bad name.

Strangely enough, as I was writing the parody, my opinion changed.  What they're saying is a logical extension of the basic beliefs: God is good, and he controls what happens. Therefore all things that happen have to be for good reasons whether they seem at first look to be horrific tragedies/genocide/terrorism.  Everything is God's will and by definition is "good".  Can't fault the logic... has to be the starting premise that's flawed.


Just as it is the "Fundamentalist Atheists" that give other atheists a bad name.

I was about to post a flippant "yes, but the difference is we're right" comment, then I remembered reading an article about some woman whose name escapes me who talks (well, rants) about being atheist and how bad a god God is... somebody like that *definitely* gives atheism a bad name.

Thank God I still believe in human decency.  (Although sometimes it's shaken.)

Thank God I still believe in human decency.  (Although sometimes it's shaken.)



I hear ya.  Sometimes it gets rough, but we have to try to keep it.

Thank God I...have a daughter who cares about issues like civil rights, equality, etc.  Gives me hope for the next generation.

After only a tiny amount of that, I'm prepared to say:

Thank God I'm an atheist


Amen to that...  :)

Strangely enough, as I was writing the parody, my opinion changed.  What they're saying is a logical extension of the basic beliefs: God is good, and he controls what happens.


Well, not everybody that is religious believes in an Omnipitant God.

Myself, I believe that God gives us Free Will.  He does not dictate what happens in our lives, and leaves us be to live as we choose.  All choices are ours, but we have to answer for them when we die.  To me, those that believe in a God that controlls everything are simply copping out of responsibility for their own actions.

It is the ultimate form of "Don't blame me, God made me do it".

It all comes down to the Trilemma though...

1. if God is willing but unable to prevent evil, he is not omnipotent

2. if God is able but not willing to prevent evil, he is not good

3. if God is willing and able to prevent evil, then why is there evil?

The only way that Free Will works as a concept is the assumption that God is not omniscient.  Under that scenario, God created us with the intention of being good, but many of us still choose to be bad.  Otherwise, if God is omniscient, then he already knows what actions we will take before we even take them.  By extension, if he created us knowing what actions we will take, then he literally created some of us intentionally to be evil.  Obviously, that prospect completely throws out Free Will, and it seriously questions whether or not God is benevolent.

The final dilemma is....  if God is not omniscient or not omnipotent, then why do we even call him God (much less worship him)?

It all comes down to the Trilemma though...

1. if God is willing but unable to prevent evil, he is not omnipotent

2. if God is able but not willing to prevent evil, he is not good

3. if God is willing and able to prevent evil, then why is there evil?

The only way that Free Will works as a concept is the assumption that God is not omniscient.  Under that scenario, God created us with the intention of being good, but many of us still choose to be bad.  Otherwise, if God is omniscient, then he already knows what actions we will take before we even take them.  By extension, if he created us knowing what actions we will take, then he literally created some of us intentionally to be evil.  Obviously, that prospect completely throws out Free Will, and it seriously questions whether or not God is benevolent.

The final dilemma is....  if God is not omniscient or not omnipotent, then why do we even call him God (much less worship him)?


Well said.

There is yet another possibility: that God did infact create man in his image. Most people simply don't give a f*** about important things in their lives: it stands to reason then that perhaps God doesn't either.

"1. if God is willing but unable to prevent evil, he is not omnipotent" - maybe he forgets, like the millions of those who suffer from Altzheimer's - after all, God is really old by now...

"2. if God is able but not willing to prevent evil, he is not good" - maybe he is too busy watching the Mets blow their lead to care about female genital mutilation and genocide in some African nations, for starters. Just 'cause a guy (or girl, or it...) likes to watch his ballgames doesn't make him 'evil'.

"3. if God is willing and able to prevent evil, then why is there evil?" - even assuming for a moment a God could do this, he would be like a fire fighter in a station house: probably asleep until the alarm goes off, then only arrives on the scene to put out the fire and do damage control. Fires aren't necessarily evil: they keep us warm and provide many things we cannot live without.

The only way that Free Will truly exists is to question what is around and presented to you, regardless of what is popular or accepted.

"The final dilemma is....  if God is not omniscient or not omnipotent, then why do we even call him God (much less worship him)?"

~~ well, in his hypothetical defense, we call obvious mortals "Gods" (or Godesses) all of the time. There are things to be worshipped (provider of thy nookie being the major one), but as far as some being fixing everything that's wrong in our lives, personally, I believe in people to do that, which is quite the paradoxical viewpoint since I also think "Hell is other people".

Ant

Good points, Red.

Personally, I think God merely serves as a metaphor for what humanity can potentially become as a collective, so there is no need to worship him/her/it.

The final dilemma is....  if God is not omniscient or not omnipotent, then why do we even call him God (much less worship him)?

The majority of gods that have been worshipped over the years are (or their adherents believe them to be) neither omniscient or omnipotent, but have been worshipped anyway for doing useful things like making sure the sun rises in the morning.  It's only the Abrahamic religions that have that kind of god - but I guess in a simplistic "My god's bigger than your god" clash of belief systems, the monotheists are going to win out every time :)


Well, not everybody that is religious believes in an Omnipitant God.

True - it's difficult to argue at times, as different people's concept of God, even the one in the bible/koran, varies so hugely... taking the atheist position frequently feels like so much shadow boxing.


Myself, I believe that God gives us Free Will.  He does not dictate what happens in our lives, and leaves us be to live as we choose.  All choices are ours, but we have to answer for them when we die.  To me, those that believe in a God that controlls everything are simply copping out of responsibility for their own actions.

It is the ultimate form of "Don't blame me, God made me do it".

I agree with the "free will", though (obviously) not its source; I also completely agree with the abdication of responsibility implied by the "God made me do it" sort of statement, but not that we answer for our decisions when we die.  Funny, isn't it, how with completely different starting points, we often end up with very similar views on some issues?


3. if God is willing and able to prevent evil, then why is there evil?

'Cause he likes a good soap opera as much as his creation appears to?

taking the atheist position frequently feels like so much shadow boxing.


Sounds like a good "Shadow Dancing" parody title...

and thanks, macphisto.

Ant

Sounds like a good "Shadow Dancing" parody title...

Not this time... I've got a slightly different one about to hit today's update :)

After only a tiny amount of that, I'm prepared to say:

Thank God I'm an atheist


i'm with you

Well, not everybody that is religious believes in an Omnipitant God.

Myself, I believe that God gives us Free Will.  He does not dictate what happens in our lives, and leaves us be to live as we choose.  All choices are ours, but we have to answer for them when we die.  To me, those that believe in a God that controlls everything are simply copping out of responsibility for their own actions.

It is the ultimate form of "Don't blame me, God made me do it".


I'm starting to think of Flip Wilson...

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/41/4163/640/14549flip1.jpg

The devil made me do it!!! :D ;D

Edit: That's what I get for hotlinking.... It showed up last night.

i'm with you

:)

You might enjoy this, then (he says, realizing that he hasn't pimped the final result).  Or this :)

3. if God is willing and able to prevent evil, then why is there evil?

'Cause he likes a good soap opera as much as his creation appears to?


In a word, yes.

The Biblical book of Job is essentially that story writ large.  It's one of the oldest stories in human literature.  You don't have to believe in God to appreciate the problem of evil -- it's a fundamental part of human existence.  We all want an answer to the question "Why me?", whether we believe in a God or not.

Needless to say, I've skipped a few bits.  And my version isn't nearly as poetic as it was in the 1600s when it got translated to English.  The original's better.  But here's my summary of it.

Once upon a time, there was a guy named Job.  Apart from having to explain to everybody that you're supposed to pronounce it with a long "o", as in "Oprah", not as in the "jawb" that you work from 9 to 5, he had it pretty good. 

Satan:  Hey, God, You suck.
God:  Hey, Satan, check out Job down there.  He digs me.
Satan:  Only because you gave him all that cool stuff.
God:  Fine, take his stuff.  Just don't hurt him.  Let's see what happens.
Satan:  *crunches Job's stuff*
Job:  Meh.  It's only stuff.  Least I got my health.
God:  Well?
Satan:  OK, maybe he doesn't want his stuff.  Lemme hurt him a bit!
God:  OK, do your worst, just don't kill 'im.
Satan:  *gives Job a hell of a nasty disease*
Job:  Ouch.  Meh, everyone gets sick.
Job's Friends:  Dude, you're really getting a raw deal here.
Job:  Tell me about it.  This sucks.
Job's Friends:  You must have done something to piss God off.
Job:  Not a frackin' thing.  That's why it sucks.  I feel so emo!
*pause*
Job:  Hey God, what the hell, man?  WTF's up with this?
God:  Dude, I made you, I can break you.
Job:  WTF?
God:  Man up.  My Universe, my rules!  You're so smart, you tell me how the Universe works.  Pop quiz!  Category: Science!
Job:  *scores a big fat zero*
God:  So who's the God around here, and who's the mortal?
Job:  Yeah, I get it.  You're the God, I'm the mortal.
God:  Good, we got that straight.  BTW, I won the bet, so here's your stuff back, with interest!  Party on, dude!
Job:  Party on, God!

There are some memorable rants in there - the pop science quiz is a hoot.  Job, being from a pre-technological society, gets a big fat zero.  For a good time, play along -- anyone who's been through college should be able to get most of the answers right.

Hang on, there's a whirlwind outside my door.  Wants a reconciliation of quantum theory with general relativity, claiming my random handwaving about supersymmetry, M-theory, and quantum loop gravity isn't quite enough.  I told Him I'd get back to Him a few years after CERN powers up.  He went away, but I'm sure He'll be back again, and probably with even better questions.

So, you're essentially saying that God is a flippant a-hole, and we are here for his amusement.  To be honest, that would explain a lot.

I still don't get the part about worshipping him though.  Omnipotent beings don't need worship to supplement their invincibility, unless they have a massive ego and a major fascist streak....

So, you're essentially saying that God is a flippant a-hole, and we are here for his amusement.  To be honest, that would explain a lot.


Hey, if God created me in His image, the least I can do is return the favor.

(I don't want to start any blasphemous rumors, but I think that God's got a sick sense of humor, and when I die, I expect to find Him laughing...)

The worship bit?  I'm not going to spoil and obscure science fiction book by naming it, but maybe there's an even bigger cosmic bar bet going on, in which He did the whole universe-creating thing on a whim to see if He could create a universe in which intelligent life would not merely evolve, but would evolve with the ability to seek the creator of its universe.  (I have no skin in that game.  I'm still working on the "figuring out how this universe works" bit, never mind the really smart tricks like "figure out the sort of math that permits the existence of a universe like this one".)

As the author of the book of Job suggests -- his universe, his rules.  We just live in it.  Science is a game we play with God to find out what His rules are.

Atheists have it easy.  They don't need to deal with the problem of "why" there is evil -- only the fact that some humans are simply broken, in that they're not capable of internalizing nor obeying the rules set down by their fellow primates. 

I don't fault the author of the book of Job.  It took our species a long time to figure out the water cycle, the age of the universe, and the bits about primate psychology.  If you didn't have that knowledge, you'd probably assume God's existence, and a "cosmic bar bet" is just as good as any other explanation for God's actions.

"Why you? Because you're there, Chuck. Because something has to happen to you."
  - Robert Anton Wilson, The Illuminatus! Trilogy.

(I don't want to start any blasphemous rumors, but I think that God's got a sick sense of humor, and when I die, I expect to find Him laughing...)

Depeche Mode FTW!  :D

The worship bit?  I'm not going to spoil and obscure science fiction book by naming it, but maybe there's an even bigger cosmic bar bet going on, in which He did the whole universe-creating thing on a whim to see if He could create a universe in which intelligent life would not merely evolve, but would evolve with the ability to seek the creator of its universe.  (I have no skin in that game.  I'm still working on the "figuring out how this universe works" bit, never mind the really smart tricks like "figure out the sort of math that permits the existence of a universe like this one".)

As the author of the book of Job suggests -- his universe, his rules.  We just live in it.  Science is a game we play with God to find out what His rules are.

Atheists have it easy.  They don't need to deal with the problem of "why" there is evil -- only the fact that some humans are simply broken, in that they're not capable of internalizing nor obeying the rules set down by their fellow primates. 

I don't fault the author of the book of Job.  It took our species a long time to figure out the water cycle, the age of the universe, and the bits about primate psychology.  If you didn't have that knowledge, you'd probably assume God's existence, and a "cosmic bar bet" is just as good as any other explanation for God's actions.

"Why you? Because you're there, Chuck. Because something has to happen to you."
  - Robert Anton Wilson, The Illuminatus! Trilogy.


Good points...  It's like life is one big Douglas Adams story.

Good points...  It's like life is one big Douglas Adams story.


May not make sense, but it sure makes it easier to take.  That's the essential message of Job:  It's not supposed to make sense.

Once upon a time, I met a wise man who sold his self-published books in an unconventional forum.  And with a sales pitch like "I've got a harder job than those hookers, they only have to find someone with $100 and an itchy c*bleep*k.  I've gotta find someone with $5 who reads literature!" and $5 in my pocket, how could I resist flipping through a couple of pages while waiting for the light to change?

I liked what I read.  Bought a copy.  Read it that night.

Few weeks later, I saw him again and bought one copy of every book he had for sale. 

Few months later, I was going through a rough spot in my life.  We were watching the people (who didn't read literature) ignoring us as they scurried by on the street corner.  The guy was the closest thing to Hunter S. Thompson I'd ever read, and for half an hour, not one person looked at him, let alone bought a book.  So we talked about stuff.  And the wise man said:

"It's only pain.  It won't kill you."

I haven't seen the wise man in more than a decade, but his words stuck with me.  A little googling has revealed that the guy made good in the new economy.  So did I.  In part, because what I was going through at the time was only pain.  It didn't kill me.  Eventually, it went away. 

Thanks, Author. 

After only a tiny amount of that, I'm prepared to say:

Thank God I'm an atheist
.................ill second that.philbo

Well, I surely can't say I'm at a point where I can "Thank God" for having suffered **cest in childhood--and I can't say that I ever will be.  I can't imagine being "grateful" for being raped by any one, at any age.  Period.