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This is a topic from the Current Politics and Religious Topics forum on inthe00s.
Subject: 9/11 redux
Written By: Tia on 09/11/07 at 12:55 pm
oddly, with the 9/11 anniversary coming up, I found myself re-reading a bunch of the more interesting books i have on the subject and i thought i’d share some of them and see what people thought.
***
Slavoj Zizek -- Welcome to the Desert of the Real
http://web.mit.edu/cms/reconstructions/interpretations/desertreal.html
It is precisely now, when we are dealing with the raw Real of a catastrophe, that we should bear in mind the ideological and fantasmatic coordinates which determine its perception. If there is any symbolism in the collapse of the WTC towers, it is not so much the old-fashioned notion of the "center of financial capitalism," but, rather, the notion that the two WTC towers stood for the center of the VIRTUAL capitalism, of financial speculations disconnected from the sphere of material production. The shattering impact of the bombings can only be accounted for only against the background of the borderline which today separates the digitalized First World from the Third World "desert of the Real." It is the awareness that we live in an insulated artificial universe which generates the notion that some ominous agent is threatening us all the time with total destruction.
Gore Vidal -- The Enemy Within
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/EnemyWithin.html
`Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it compromises and develops the germ of every other. As the parent of armies, war encourages debts and taxes, the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the executive is extended . . . and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people . . .' Thus, James Madison warned us at the dawn of our republic.
Post 9/11, thanks to the `domination of the few', Congress and the media are silent while the executive, through propaganda and skewed polls, seduces the public mind as hitherto unthinkable centers of power like Homeland Defence (a new Cabinet post to be placed on top of the Defence Department) are being constructed and 4 per cent of the country has recently been invited to join TIPS, a civilian spy system to report on anyone who looks suspicious or . . . who objects to what the executive is doing at home or abroad?
Susan Sontag, The New Yorker, September 24, 2001
groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/susan.htm
Our leaders are bent on convincing us that everything is O.K. America is not afraid. Our spirit is unbroken, although this was a day that will live in infamy and America is now at war. But everything is not O.K. And this was not Pearl Harbor. We have a robotic president who assures us that America stands tall. A wide spectrum of public figures, in and out of office, who are strongly opposed to the policies being pursued abroad by this Administration apparently feel free to say nothing more than that they stand united behind President Bush. A lot of thinking needs to be done, and perhaps is being done in Washington and elsewhere, about the ineptitude of American intelligence and counter-intelligence, about options available to American foreign policy, particularly in the Middle East, and about what constitutes a smart program of military defense. But the public is not being asked to bear much of the burden of reality. The unanimously applauded, self-congratulatory bromides of a Soviet Party Congress seemed contemptible. The unanimity of the sanctimonious, reality-concealing rhetoric spouted by American officials and media commentators in recent days seems, well, unworthy of a mature democracy.
Christopher Hitchens -- It’s a Good Time for War
http://www.boston.com/news/packages/sept11/anniversary/globe_stories/090802_hitchens_entire.htm
In several of his demented sermons, in the days before he achieved global notoriety, Osama bin Laden made his followers a sort of promise. Defeating the Red Army in Afghanistan and bringing down the Soviet Union, he said, had been the hard part. The easy part - the destruction of the United States of America - was still to come. That task would be easy because America was corrupt and cowardly and rotten. It would not fight (as the debacle in Somalia had shown); it was a slave of the Jewish conspiracy; it cared only for comfort and materialism.
It involves no exaggeration to say that everything depends, and has depended, on proving bin Laden wrong. And not merely in proving him wrong, but in demonstrating exactly how wrong he is. (Or how wrong he was: I am one of those who do not expect to hear from him in person again.)
Subject: Re: 9/11 redux
Written By: CatwomanofV on 09/11/07 at 3:02 pm
The other day, we turned on CSpan and found William Rodriguez talking. At the time we said, "Who is he?" He was the janitor of the North Tower and it was his job to sweep the stairs-yes, ALL those stairs. What makes his story so remarkable was that he had the master key (there were only 5) and led the firefighters up the stairs and unlocked doors to let people out. He was also the last man out of the building before it collapsed. His story was truly powerful and very moving. He is just an ordinary person who helped save many that day. And he is still fighting for the rights of the victims.
http://www.william911.com/
Cat
Subject: Re: 9/11 redux
Written By: Tia on 09/11/07 at 3:05 pm
The other day, we turned on CSpan and found William Rodriguez talking. At the time we said, "Who is he?" He was the janitor of the North Tower and it was his job to sweep the stairs-yes, ALL those stairs. What makes his story so remarkable was that he had the master key (there were only 5) and led the firefighters up the stairs and unlocked doors to let people out. He was also the last man out of the building before it collapsed. His story was truly powerful and very moving. He is just an ordinary person who helped save many that day. And he is still fighting for the rights of the victims.
http://www.william911.com/
Cat
c-span junkie i am, i heard that whole thing last weekend too. thanks for linking to it, i wasn't sure where to find it! yes, he was amazing.
Subject: Re: 9/11 redux
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 09/11/07 at 5:27 pm
The 6th anniversary of 9/11 has no significant effect on me.
Ever since 9/11 every day has been 9/11. Our cowardly leaders hide behind the spectre of the massacre to rally the cry of war and to drain the public coffers into the military-petroleum complex. Yesterday they used General Petraeus to make it clear perpetual war shall be the future, just like Orwell's vision in "1984." Moveon.org and Code Pink continue to carry on as if the majority of the population does not already agree with them. Our government of psychos and pipsqueaks cares not what the majority of the public wants. They don't work for us; they only serve the corporate paymasters.
The country of Iraq is going down in a civil war bloodbath and our soldiers continue to die for the rich man's gain.
I have no wreath of flowers to lay and no sentimental words of remembrance today. Sorry, it's just not there.
Subject: Re: 9/11 redux
Written By: thereshegoes on 09/11/07 at 6:22 pm
I have to admit,today i totally forgot it was 9/11 :-[ There's this all talk about how the world changed after the attacks,the truth is...it didn't,it just made you see it differently. I don't want to make light of the pain of the victims families,but all over the world,everyday 9/11's are happening :(
Subject: Re: 9/11 redux
Written By: Tia on 09/11/07 at 6:25 pm
The 6th anniversary of 9/11 has no significant effect on me.
Ever since 9/11 every day has been 9/11. Our cowardly leaders hide behind the spectre of the massacre to rally the cry of war and to drain the public coffers into the military-petroleum complex. Yesterday they used General Petraeus to make it clear perpetual war shall be the future, just like Orwell's vision in "1984." Moveon.org and Code Pink continue to carry on as if the majority of the population does not already agree with them. Our government of psychos and pipsqueaks cares not what the majority of the public wants. They don't work for us; they only serve the corporate paymasters.
The country of Iraq is going down in a civil war bloodbath and our soldiers continue to die for the rich man's gain.
I have no wreath of flowers to lay and no sentimental words of remembrance today. Sorry, it's just not there.
funny, that's how i feel about groundhog day.
Subject: Re: 9/11 redux
Written By: Tia on 09/11/07 at 6:36 pm
I have to admit,today i totally forgot it was 9/11 :-so real that the psyche couldn't accept it and kept having to envelop it in phantasy.
i remember right after sept. 11 i was listening to c-span and this lady called, obviously heartbroken, and said, "this has got to be the most violent day in human history, the biggest civilian death toll ever." and i'm like, no, it's not even in the top 10. on the one hand this woman was so freaked that you wanted to forgive the hyperbole and she didn't mean anything by it, but also it seems like if people didn't have that mentality, so closed off to history, the foreign policies that gave rise to 9/11 would maybe not have happened, because the populace would have seen that they're bullsheesh.
it's a tricky thing -- christopher hitchens is this other dude i totally disagree with but i agree with him on some level: blaming america for 9/11 is pretty bad, and susan sontag totally does it in her piece. but the thing you ahve to do, i think, is find this very delicate middle ground where the architects of 9/11 (whoever they might be) are the sole people to blame for the attacks, but that american policies provided them, if not reason then a motive. and that these policies have often been every bit as bad as 9/11 (mining the harbor in nicaragua springs right to mind, for some reason) in no way justify 9/11, but the people who articulate these policies need to cope with the shameful fact that their policies are of the same category.
you know what i mean??
Subject: Re: 9/11 redux
Written By: thereshegoes on 09/11/07 at 7:01 pm
that's sorta what noam chomsky says, that 9/11 differs from other actions not in its severity but in who it was directed at. i originally thought slavoj zizek was saying the same thing -- "welcome to the desert of the real" meaning, welcome to the violence the rest of the world inhabits -- but what he's saying is sorta different, that 9/11 looked like a hollywood blockbuster to so many people not because it was inherently surreal but because it was so real that the psyche couldn't accept it and kept having to envelop it in phantasy.
i remember right after sept. 11 i was listening to c-span and this lady called, obviously heartbroken, and said, "this has got to be the most violent day in human history, the biggest civilian death toll ever." and i'm like, no, it's not even in the top 10. on the one hand this woman was so freaked that you wanted to forgive the hyperbole and she didn't mean anything by it, but also it seems like if people didn't have that mentality, so closed off to history, the foreign policies that gave rise to 9/11 would maybe not have happened, because the populace would have seen that they're balony.
it's a tricky thing -- christopher hitchens is this other dude i totally disagree with but i agree with him on some level: blaming america for 9/11 is pretty bad, and susan sontag totally does it in her piece. but the thing you ahve to do, i think, is find this very delicate middle ground where the architects of 9/11 (whoever they might be) are the sole people to blame for the attacks, but that american policies provided them, if not reason then a motive. and that these policies have often been every bit as bad as 9/11 (mining the harbor in nicaragua springs right to mind, for some reason) in no way justify 9/11, but the people who articulate these policies need to cope with the shameful fact that their policies are of the same category.
you know what i mean??
Yeah,i think you're right.
Like with every other tragedy,time gives us clarity,but after 6 years it feels like it's been only 2,because the "revenge seeking" is taking so long,and the attacks are so talked about still,this made up sense of fear,of terror it's taking a lot longer to dissapear :-\\