» OLD MESSAGE ARCHIVES «
The Pop Culture Information Society...
Messageboard Archive Index, In The 00s - The Pop Culture Information Society
Welcome to the archived messages from In The 00s. This archive stretches back to 1998 in some instances, and contains a nearly complete record of all the messages posted to inthe00s.com. You will also find an archive of the messages from inthe70s.com, inthe80s.com, inthe90s.com and amiright.com before they were combined to form the inthe00s.com messageboard.
If you are looking for the active messages, please click here. Otherwise, use the links below or on the right hand side of the page to navigate the archives.
Custom Search
This is a topic from the Current Politics and Religious Topics forum on inthe00s.
Subject: The War of 1812...
Written By: Davester on 07/24/07 at 10:10 pm
I was wondering how Canadian schools treat this subject...
The United States' primary objective was to conquer Canada, no..?
Anyone..?
Subject: Re: The War of 1812...
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 07/24/07 at 10:39 pm
7 out of 10 American public school students don't know when the War of 1812 was fought!"
:D
Subject: Re: The War of 1812...
Written By: philbo on 07/25/07 at 3:46 am
Here was me thinking you meant Napoleon's invasion of Russia...
Subject: Re: The War of 1812...
Written By: McDonald on 07/25/07 at 9:40 am
"And the White House burned, burned, burned
and we're the ones that did it!"
-Arrogant Worms - The War of 1812
Canadians generally take great pride in victories during that war. The Americans burnt York (Toronto) to the ground, the British (Canadians) burnt Washington D.C. to the ground and looted the U.S. treasury. Most historians will say that this war was a stalemate, but if you say that to most regular Canadians they'll be like "Bullsheesh, buddy! We won that!" And from the Canadian (not British) point of view, it was a victory because the Canadian soldiers succeeded in maintaining Canada's (British North America's) territory, and sending the Americans back to where they came from.
You can listen to that rather popular, comedic song if you follow the link.
http://www.seeqpod.com/music/?plid=aebb1425e3
Subject: Re: The War of 1812...
Written By: Satish on 07/25/07 at 1:17 pm
I'm a Canadian and I learned about the War of 1812 back in the eighth grade. We were taught that the war was mostly a result of the greed of the United States for land to expand its territory. Our teacher talked in harsh tones about the imperialist ideology of "Manifest Destiny" that had arisen in the United States, which was the desire of the US to conquer the entire continent.(Which was actually inaccurate, since the "Manifest Destiny" ideology didn't become present in the United States until the mid-1800s, and applies more to its westward expansion and its war with Mexico than it does to the War of 1812)
Subject: Re: The War of 1812...
Written By: Satish on 07/25/07 at 1:24 pm
the British (Canadians) burnt Washington D.C. to the ground and looted the U.S. treasury.
Actually, that's not entirely true. When the British marched into Washington, D.C., they didn't burn down the entire city, only the major government buildings and infrastructure, such as the president's house, the Capitol building, and the military facilities.
The British forces actually went to great lengths to make the assault as humane as possible, making sure that they didn't do any damage at all to any of the civilian housing and infrastructure.
Subject: Re: The War of 1812...
Written By: danootaandme on 07/25/07 at 5:37 pm
Actually, that's not entirely true. When the British marched into Washington, D.C., they didn't burn down the entire city, only the major government buildings and infrastructure, such as the president's house, the Capitol building, and the military facilities.
The British forces actually went to great lengths to make the assault as humane as possible, making sure that they didn't do any damage at all to any of the civilian housing and infrastructure.
Almost makes you sorry the lost the Revolutionary War
Subject: Re: The War of 1812...
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 07/25/07 at 6:51 pm
I'm a Canadian and I learned about the War of 1812 back in the eighth grade. We were taught that the war was mostly a result of the greed of the United States for land to expand its territory. Our teacher talked in harsh tones about the imperialist ideology of "Manifest Destiny" that had arisen in the United States, which was the desire of the US to conquer the entire continent.(Which was actually inaccurate, since the "Manifest Destiny" ideology didn't become present in the United States until the mid-1800s, and applies more to its westward expansion and its war with Mexico than it does to the War of 1812)
"Manifest Destiny" made great use of religion to exert the will of the state.
"It's the way God wants it! This is our land now! Get your sh!t and get out!
Subject: Re: The War of 1812...
Written By: McDonald on 07/25/07 at 7:24 pm
Actually, that's not entirely true. When the British marched into Washington, D.C., they didn't burn down the entire city, only the major government buildings and infrastructure, such as the president's house, the Capitol building, and the military facilities.
The British forces actually went to great lengths to make the assault as humane as possible, making sure that they didn't do any damage at all to any of the civilian housing and infrastructure.
Yes, you're right. They were under strict orders to leave all residential homes alone, which is more than we can say for the Americans when they burnt York.
Subject: Re: The War of 1812...
Written By: Foo Bar on 07/25/07 at 9:30 pm
-Arrogant Worms - The War of 1812
On behalf of both sides, I'm gonna present The Battle of New Orleans, by Johnny Horton, 1959. Both versions (he recorded one for the Brits and one for the Americans) are funny. You can probably figure out most of Jimmy Driftwood's original lyrics (complete with the shocking language like "damn" and "hell") from Johnny Horton's versions.
The song is funny, but it reflects a sad reality of the day: The Battle of New Orleans may have been the last battle of the War of 1812, but the only reason it was fought because communications networks of the time were so slow that neither side knew the war had already been over for two weeks until more than a month after the battle.
Subject: Re: The War of 1812...
Written By: Davester on 07/25/07 at 11:12 pm
Seems conquering Canada was not part of the initial US war aims (although the leaders almost certainly expected it to be accomplished as a byproduct, believing as they did that the French Canadians were still unhappy with British rule)...
I'd say the Canadians won...
The Americans got the paranoid, racist and genocidal Andrew Jackson as president, as a result of the war... :o
Wow, all these songs..! Check 'em out...
Edited to add: I should add that after reading up on this war a little more that many in the United States did hope to gain land from the war. The attempt to conquer Canada was only a part of this aim, but was definitely hoped for by belligerent American politicians...
Subject: Re: The War of 1812...
Written By: danootaandme on 07/26/07 at 11:19 am
After Jackson we had The Monroe Doctrine which basically said that the United States owns everything in this hemisphere. I was taught in school that that was a good thing because the United States was the bestest and freest country in the whole wide world.
Subject: Re: The War of 1812...
Written By: SemperYoda on 07/27/07 at 7:11 pm
From Wikipedia:
The War of 1812 (in Britain, the American War of 1812, to distinguish from the war with Napoleon I of France) was fought between the United States of America and the United Kingdom and its colonies, especially Upper Canada (Ontario), Lower Canada (Quebec), Nova Scotia, and Bermuda. When the war had finished, 1,600 British and 2,260 American troops had died. The war was fought from 1812 to 1815 and involved both land and naval engagements. Britain was at war with France and, to impede American trade with France, imposed a series of restrictions that the U.S. contested as illegal under international law. The Americans declared war on Britain on June 18, 1812 for a combination of reasons: outrage at the impressment (seizure) of thousands of British born American sailors into the Royal Navy, frustration at British restraints on neutral trade, and anger at British military support for Native Americans defending their tribal lands from encroaching American settlers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812
Subject: Re: The War of 1812...
Written By: Davester on 07/27/07 at 11:02 pm
From Wikipedia:
The War of 1812 (in Britain, the American War of 1812, to distinguish from the war with Napoleon I of France) was fought between the United States of America and the United Kingdom and its colonies, especially Upper Canada (Ontario), Lower Canada (Quebec), Nova Scotia, and Bermuda. When the war had finished, 1,600 British and 2,260 American troops had died. The war was fought from 1812 to 1815 and involved both land and naval engagements. Britain was at war with France and, to impede American trade with France, imposed a series of restrictions that the U.S. contested as illegal under international law. The Americans declared war on Britain on June 18, 1812 for a combination of reasons: outrage at the impressment (seizure) of thousands of British born American sailors into the Royal Navy, frustration at British restraints on neutral trade, and anger at British military support for Native Americans defending their tribal lands from encroaching American settlers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812
Thanks...
Without reading the wiki entry, I've learned that many (a significant number, anyway) among the thousands of 'impressed' American sailors were actually deserters from the Royal Navy. British ship docks in America, sailors jump ship. US Navy and merchant mariners say, "Eh, whatever..." and hire them...
One US gripe with Britain (among many) was when the British claimed the right to board American vessels to search for and arrest RN deserters...
Subject: Re: The War of 1812...
Written By: Mushroom on 08/08/07 at 9:51 pm
Long live Laura Secord.
And a lot of people do not realize, the US Military had plans to invade Canada at least until the second World War. One of the plans considered if England fell to the Germans was to invade Canda and annex it to the US. This would be a legal way to deny Germany access to it's resources.
Of course, if such an "invasion" had been nessicary, it would have been largely ceremonial, and not contested. It would be the only way to keep Canda "legally" free of Germany, since of course they would have demanded the surrender of all colonies and possessions of the UK. And the UK could hardly hand over a possession that it no longer controlled.
Subject: Re: The War of 1812...
Written By: McDonald on 08/09/07 at 11:14 am
Long live Laura Secord.
And a lot of people do not realize, the US Military had plans to invade Canada at least until the second World War. One of the plans considered if England fell to the Germans was to invade Canda and annex it to the US. This would be a legal way to deny Germany access to it's resources.
Of course, if such an "invasion" had been nessicary, it would have been largely ceremonial, and not contested. It would be the only way to keep Canda "legally" free of Germany, since of course they would have demanded the surrender of all colonies and possessions of the UK. And the UK could hardly hand over a possession that it no longer controlled.
Of course, you realise that Canada was neither colony nor a possession of the UK at that time. A series of Imperial Conferences had long affirmed the independent status of the British Dominions (Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc...) well before the Second World War. The Balfour Declaration of 1926 confirmed that the Dominions were independent and autonomous members of the British Commonwealth, which is the successor to the Empire. Also, Canada became the first Commonwealth nation to enter into a treaty independently in 1923, established the first independent diplomatic mission (to the US) in 1927, and obtained a British embassy(High Commissioner) in Ottawa in 1928. All this was formalised in 1931 with the Statute of Westminster, which declared all Commonwealth members (former colonial Dominions which had now gained political independence) equal to one another and totally independent, notwithstanding a common allegiance to the Crown (which even at that time was only ceremonial and a question of heritage). Germany could not have legally claimed control of Canada or any other Dominion for this reason. And I am quite sure, considering the complicated and sometimes hostile relationship between the US and Canada since the beginning (an ongoing love-dislike relationship to be sure), that there would certainly have been contest to any annexation procedures.
And yeah, big up to Laura Secord. A Canadian hero who made some great chocolate! ;)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/68/LauraSecordChocolate.gif