Michael Moore is absolutely right.  The health insurance industry is greedy and inhumane.  It serves the interests of the bureaucrats who run it.  I knew that already.  "Sicko" illustrates the root of America's problem that allows this insanity to continue. 

Fear and hatred. 

The message is:  "We are a nation of rugged individualists.  That's what makes us great.  If citizens get the idea that they are entitled to education, housing, and healthcare, they will become soft, lazy, and unproductive.  If you give things to people they have no incentive to succeed in life." 

The corporate media take on Hurricane Katrina, for instance, told us the people of New Orleans deserved to suffer because they were lazy and lived on government hand-outs, and of course, government is incompetent and hurts people when it gets inolved in anything.

The core of the ethos is: There is no "we."  There is only "I." 

There is only so much Michael Moore could cover in a 2 hour film.  Certainly, he glossed over serious problems in Canada, Britain, and France.  However, I noticed a visceral reaction every time somebody in the film says something like, "We don't mind paying for the healthcare of others because they do the same for us," or "We don't pay bills at the hospital.  The government takes care of it."
I was expecting the rancorous rebuttle that never came.  We, as Americans, are supposed to despise even a hint of collectivism or even a suggestion that the government can improve life for citizens.  Through right-wing politicians, fundamentalist preachers, and corporate propagandists, we are not only conditioned to believe these ideas are wrong-headed, but sinful and treasonous. 
Furthermore, if you, as an American, are in debt or cannot make ends meet, it's because you made the wrong choices and deserve to suffer for them.  If you are rich, you deserve to be honored--unless you criticize other rich people, like Michael Moore and John Edwards.

If I accept these social premises, a healthcare system that gives insurers the incentive to give the least amount of care possible makes perfect sense:
1. It encourages you to take care of yourself better so you will not require so much healthcare, then you'll be happier and more productive.
2. It discourages YOU from seeking medical care for frivolous reasons and driving up the costs for ME.
If anybody presents you with our grim statistics on infant mortality, obesity, infectious diseases, major systemic illnesses, and life expectancy, the answer is obvious.  Refer back to the principle of no "we" only "me."  It's not about "us."  America wouldn't have the most millionaires and billionaires per capita if it was!  Your baby dies the day she is born?  It's because YOU SUCK!
And that's how we, as a nation, tolerate an abusive healtchare system that maintains the worst of both worlds:
1. Extremely expensive.
2. Terribly inefficient.
:D

It's not enough that you succeed.  Your neighbor must also fail.  The measure of your success as an American is the number of people worse off than yourself.

Your baby dies the day she is born?  It's because YOU SUCK!


I'm sorry, but that's going a little too far, ok a lot too far. . .and I cannot agree with that, My sister's baby was born dead when she was 15. . .and it was because she didn't want my mother to know she was pregnant so she tried her best not to gain weight. . .I find that statement to be quite a bit over-inclusive and a bit ignorant to all the things that can cause a baby to be born dead. . .as I find a lot of this post as 'generalizing'.  As a general rule yes, taking better care of yourself will reduce this that and the other, but second hand smoke that cause permanent life changes when you are a child, being born with Asthma, amongst a number of other things. . .I mean, it just seems a little rough 'Shirley Phelps' type approach--everything that happens to you is your fault. . .Accidents NEVER happen.  ..I'm sorry, I respectfully disagree.

I'm sorry, but that's going a little too far, ok a lot too far. . .and I cannot agree with that, My sister's baby was born dead when she was 15. . .and it was because she didn't want my mother to know she was pregnant so she tried her best not to gain weight. . .I find that statement to be quite a bit over-inclusive and a bit ignorant to all the things that can cause a baby to be born dead. . .as I find a lot of this post as 'generalizing'.  As a general rule yes, taking better care of yourself will reduce this that and the other, but second hand smoke that cause permanent life changes when you are a child, being born with Asthma, amongst a number of other things. . .I mean, it just seems a little rough 'Shirley Phelps' type approach--everything that happens to you is your fault. . .Accidents NEVER happen.  ..I'm sorry, I respectfully disagree.

I was being facetious.  I think you have misread my post.  If you get pregnant at 15, fear and shame are dangerous reactions, but understandable in our culture.  I am sorry for the sad burden your sister and your family must now bear.

Yes, my post was generalizing.  To specify all points on such an enormous topic as healthcare would entail writing a book, not posting on a message board.  If Michael Moore were to explore all facets of each country's healthcare system and its sociological effect, he would have to make  a 26-part series, and his most salient points would get buried. 

And what's Shirley Phelps got to do with anything?  That entire clan is completely mad.

I thought I made it clear that I do not agree with the American "individualism" and "personal responsibility" myths  These concepts, of course, are a necessary part of a healthy human psyche, but in the case of American media propaganda, they are employed only as bogus justifications for corporate profiteering.

I was being facetious.  I think you have misread my post.  If you get pregnant at 15, fear and shame are dangerous reactions, but understandable in our culture.  I am sorry for the sad burden your sister and your family must now bear.

Yes, my post was generalizing.  To specify all points on such an enormous topic as healthcare would entail writing a book, not posting on a message board.  If Michael Moore were to explore all facets of each country's healthcare system and its sociological effect, he would have to make  a 26-part series, and his most salient points would get buried. 

And what's Shirley Phelps got to do with anything?  That entire clan is completely mad.

I thought I made it clear that I do not agree with the American "individualism" and "personal responsibility" myths  These concepts, of course, are a necessary part of a healthy human psyche, but in the case of American media propaganda, they are employed only as bogus justifications for corporate profiteering.


Ok . .ok, upon re-read I see that. . .sorry. . .upon re-reading I see all that. . .and yes Phelps is completely mad, totally insane.  . .so I guess that's what I was comparing the approach of "It's All Your Fault" to . . .but you were being sarcastic/facetious as you said, so all is cool.

I hired the 'Sicko' dvd / watched it just tonight (first viewing).

Gotta say, the lack of free health care and the relative proliferation/ubiquity  of guns are two compensations I clutch at as NOT having to deal with in Australia. That's not to say there aren't guns here too (nothing like on the scale of the USA though ...) or waiting lists for some elective surgery ... but like Canada, Cuba, France and the UK... we are used to free health care.

To see heroes from the 911 disaster ignored /treated so shabbily by the system ... indicates there is something grossly wrong with the status quo.  This should be compulsory viewing, and you guys ought to say .... 'I'm as mad as hell .. and I'm not gonna take it anymore !' (no joke !) . It's time the government listened to the people, and not the other way around.

i am deliberately not watching this movie as i know it will only make me more enraged.

I hired the 'Sicko' dvd / watched it just tonight (first viewing).

Gotta say, the lack of free health care and the relative proliferation/ubiquity  of guns are two compensations I clutch at as NOT having to deal with in Australia. That's not to say there aren't guns here too (nothing like on the scale of the USA though ...) or waiting lists for some elective surgery ... but like Canada, Cuba, France and the UK... we are used to free health care.

To see heroes from the 911 disaster ignored /treated so shabbily by the system ... indicates there is something grossly wrong with the status quo.  This should be compulsory viewing, and you guys ought to say .... 'I'm as mad as hell .. and I'm not gonna take it anymore !' (no joke !) . It's time the government listened to the people, and not the other way around.



You are so right.


We finally saw the movie a few months ago and yeah, it made us angry. And one thing that Michael Moore points out is that the film is NOT about the uninsured, which there are millions in this country, it is about the people who THINK they are insured until they need that insurance and the insurance companies screw them over BIG TIME!!! And this isn't just the health care insurance companies but home owner insurance companies, too. Can you say Katrina? But, that is another issue.

I think it is SOOOOO totally wrong to have a system that health care is for profit. It really shouldn't be that way.



Cat

Sicko is Moore's strongest movie by far.

You are so right.


We finally saw the movie a few months ago and yeah, it made us angry. And one thing that Michael Moore points out is that the film is NOT about the uninsured, which there are millions in this country, it is about the people who THINK they are insured until they need that insurance and the insurance companies screw them over BIG TIME!!! And this isn't just the health care insurance companies but home owner insurance companies, too. Can you say Katrina? But, that is another issue.

I think it is SOOOOO totally wrong to have a system that health care is for profit. It really shouldn't be that way.



Cat


Looks like it all started around the time of 'Tricky Dicky' too. One of the 'all time greats'  ::)

Yes ... wasn't it interesting to see some of the patients being thrown out of hospitals onto skid row .....


Rather ironic too, that people declared enemies of the USA / held as detainees at Guantanamo Bay .... receive the BEST medical service.  ::)

Looks like it all started around the time of 'Tricky Dicky' too. One of the 'all time greats'  ::)

Yes ... wasn't it interesting to see some of the patients being thrown out of hospitals onto skid row .....


Rather ironic too, that people declared enemies of the USA / held as detainees at Guantanamo Bay .... receive the BEST medical service.  ::)



I was brought up to believe that the U.S. is supposed to be the best country on the face of the Earth but frankly, I have to say that I am ashamed that my country is the way it is.



Cat

I was brought up to believe that the U.S. is supposed to be the best country on the face of the Earth but frankly, I have to say that I am ashamed that my country is the way it is.



Cat


I've had an absolutely golden time in the US when I've lived there (approx 3 years) ... and the people ... damned close to the friendliest / nicest on the planet (well, the ones I met). However, these days I see it more as a country for the young (who have less health problems as a rule) and the RICH. Certainly, if you're RICH  it's probably THE country / place  to be ?

I've had an absolutely golden time in the US when I've lived there (approx 3 years) ... and the people ... damned close to the friendliest / nicest on the planet (well, the ones I met). However, these days I see it more as a country for the young (who have less health problems as a rule) and the RICH. Certainly, if you're RICH  it's probably THE country / place  to be ?


Yupper. And that is the problem. This country could be so much better than it is but the rich want to keep getting richer and the hell with anyone else.


Cat

Yupper. And that is the problem. This country could be so much better than it is but the rich want to keep getting richer and the hell with anyone else.


Cat


It helps to have 'cannon fodder' .... or should I say 'poor fodder'.  Keep them down there, force them into debt .... so they HAVE to work multiple jobs ... so the rich can have their services provided by the plentiful supply of 'slave labor'. Of course if EVERYONE was rich ... who'd be doing the 'dirty jobs' ........ and we wouldn't want THAT now, would we ?    ::)

The sickest part is our system isn't even cheap.  You can get better quality, but you can't pay more money!

One thing it does is keep the working classes worried and enslaved to dead end corporate jobs and THAT is worth more than an ocean of gold!
::)

i am deliberately not watching this movie as i know it will only make me more enraged.


   A friend at work burned me a copy of this about two months ago.  Oddly enough, he just asked me, today, how I liked it.  What you said is EXACTLY what I told him.  I asked him if it would be advisable to update my passport and pack my bags prior to watching Sicko.  He says, "Nah, you're still too young to worry about it..."

   Sooner or later I might check it out during a late night shake n' bake...

   A friend at work burned me a copy of this about two months ago.  Oddly enough, he just asked me, today, how I liked it.  What you said is EXACTLY what I told him.  I asked him if it would be advisable to update my passport and pack my bags prior to watching Sicko.  He says, "Nah, you're still too young to worry about it..."

   Sooner or later I might check it out during a late night shake n' bake...

A shake 'n' bake, eh?
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/01/bandit.gif

I've never seen it, but I definetly don't need to. I already know of how corrupt the US is(health care, business and all the other crap).