what do people here think of them? a lot of ppl don't take them serious

i am part of one that doesnt even have official recognition

Ah, you'll find a wide range here I reckon.  At least one wiccan, several atheists and about two or three others are making it up their own system from most major world religions as far as I can tell.

claire(my g/f) is a Wiccan. we are both into Juggaloism(http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Juggaloism read the 2nd definition its the right one imo). but she also does Wicca. so yeah sometimes people mix religions, which is cool

... several atheists ...

Yeah, but it ain't a religion, alternative or otherwise.  More a lack of one.

Juggaloism?  Now, that's one I'd not heard of before...

A Juggalo?  What's a Juggalo?
A Juggalo, why didn't you know?
We've got Juggalo clergy in Juggaloism
And Juggalo symbols and Juggalo j... on the other hand, maybe not

(with apologies to Julia Donaldson, author of The Gruffalo... heads off to see if he's got a copy of Dave Lee Roth's "Just a Gigolo" to hand.  Some parody ideas are too good to pass up)

Juggaloism is sorta like Wicca i guess its not organized like christianity or islam or any of those

its unique because it was founded around music. kinda like how Rasta is unique for being based around weed haha

Yeah, but it ain't a religion, alternative or otherwise.  More a lack of one.



Ah y'know what I mean

Yeah, but it ain't a religion, alternative or otherwise.  More a lack of one.




i take pride in the fact that i am not bound by religion! I AM FREE!!!!  :D

i take pride in the fact that i am not bound by religion! I AM FREE!!!!  :D


juggaloism doesnt exactly bind you. its not really an organized religion

My basic criteria is that as long as a religion does not endorse unwilling human sacrifice, I have no problem with it.

My basic criteria is that as long as a religion does not endorse unwilling human sacrifice, I have no problem with it.


so your only against unwilling human sacrifice huh? haha :p

so your only against unwilling human sacrifice huh? haha :p


Hey, if somebody believes that killing himself brings them "closer to God", more power to them.  It is just Darwin's way of removing bad genes from the genepool.  What right do I have to tell them they are wrong?  For all I know, they might actually be right.

But I strongly draw the line when it comed to the harming of others.  Feel free to kill yourself (or maim yourself if you wish), just don't harm anybody else.

One thing that many people misunderstand about me is my actual philosophies.  Yes, I am a Conservative.  I am also a Christian.  But I am not a "Christian Conservative".  My religious choices set my political framework, they do not dictate it.

And being a "California Conservative" on top of it, it gives me a rather unique base.  My beliefs are a rather interesting blend of Conservative, Liberal, and Libertarian philosophies.  I believe strongly in helping others, as long as they are also willing to help themselves.  I believe in "being good", and as long as somebody does not infringe on my rights, they are free to do whatever they want.  This is especially true in religion.  If they honestly believe that their religion calls for them to paint themselves blue and bark naked at the moon, then they should be free to do that.  As long as it is not in a public park where children can see them doing it.

"An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will"



Cat

Hey, if somebody believes that killing himself brings them "closer to God", more power to them.  It is just Darwin's way of removing bad genes from the genepool.  What right do I have to tell them they are wrong?  For all I know, they might actually be right.

But I strongly draw the line when it comed to the harming of others.  Feel free to kill yourself (or maim yourself if you wish), just don't harm anybody else.

One thing that many people misunderstand about me is my actual philosophies.  Yes, I am a Conservative.  I am also a Christian.  But I am not a "Christian Conservative".  My religious choices set my political framework, they do not dictate it.

And being a "California Conservative" on top of it, it gives me a rather unique base.  My beliefs are a rather interesting blend of Conservative, Liberal, and Libertarian philosophies.  I believe strongly in helping others, as long as they are also willing to help themselves.  I believe in "being good", and as long as somebody does not infringe on my rights, they are free to do whatever they want.  This is especially true in religion.  If they honestly believe that their religion calls for them to paint themselves blue and bark naked at the moon, then they should be free to do that.  As long as it is not in a public park where children can see them doing it.


Definitely a good belief system there.  I am not religious, but I respect religious people who think like you.

claire(my g/f) is a Wiccan. we are both into Juggaloism(http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Juggaloism read the 2nd definition its the right one imo). but she also does Wicca. so yeah sometimes people mix religions, which is cool



doesn't that have to do with the Insane Clown Posse, or am I thinking of something different? ???

doesn't that have to do with the Insane Clown Posse, or am I thinking of something different? ???


No, I believe you are correct, Madame.  :)

"An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will"



Cat

That was the problem with the Aztecs.  Nobody volunteered to have his still-beating heart out of his chest!
But that civilization was on its way out, and they knew it.  Within a month and a day of the end the Aztecs were expecting came Cortez.

Alternative religions?  Alternative to what?  Rationality?
:P

"An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will"


"Do what keepeth thou from wilting shall be the loophole in the law"
- Church of the SubGenius

i take pride in the fact that i am not bound by religion! I AM FREE!!!!  :D


We want reformation..reformation...reformation!

What are you?

The new protestant!

Who is the protestant?

You are a Christian.

I am not a Christian! I am a free man!!

That was the problem with the Aztecs.  Nobody volunteered to have his still-beating heart out of his chest!


Actually, that is not quite true...

During special ceremonies, the sacrifices were normally volunteers.  The Winter and Spring ceremonies were among the holiest ceremonies, and the sacrifices on those days were considered especially sacred.  In many ways, it was not to different from early Christians or Muslims becomming Martyrs.

It is just that the Aztecs required daily sacrifices, and most of them were slaves or POWs.  It is probably fair to say that 1-2% actually volunteered for the "Honour", but the other 98% would probably have gladly passed.

Actually, that is not quite true...

During special ceremonies, the sacrifices were normally volunteers.  The Winter and Spring ceremonies were among the holiest ceremonies, and the sacrifices on those days were considered especially sacred.  In many ways, it was not to different from early Christians or Muslims becomming Martyrs.

It is just that the Aztecs required daily sacrifices, and most of them were slaves or POWs.  It is probably fair to say that 1-2% actually volunteered for the "Honour", but the other 98% would probably have gladly passed.

Ah, I stand corrected. Looked it up myself...

But what was I just trying to explain about "manufactured consent"?
:D

Am I the only person who still engages in ancestor worship?  Guess I have my own religion of sorts.

Satan my master, I slit my wrists to drain me of mine blood.
Satan my master, Upside down I turn the cross of God.
Satan my master, Receive this sacrifice this blood of mine.
Satan my master, I care in to my rotten flesh your signs.
Satan my master, Remember me when Judgment day is near.
Satan my master, Take my hand when Armageddon's here.

Am I the only person who still engages in ancestor worship?  Guess I have my own religion of sorts.


That is a major part of the Shinto faith.  And it is still widely practiced in Japan.

Every year, all of the bases in Okinawa that had tombs on the property had to open their gates to any Japanese National that wanted to enter the base to visit the tombs of their ancestors.  The families would gather at the enterance and basically have a party there.

On Okinawa, the tombs were everywhere.  You might have a single one in a small gully, or you might see a hillside covered with dozens of them.  And because of "Urban Sprawl", it is not unusual to see one between apartment buildings near downtown Naha.

http://www.okinawaindex.com/index/?tid=2&cid=290&id=4

Satan my master, I slit my wrists to drain me of mine blood.
Satan my master, Upside down I turn the cross of God.
Satan my master, Receive this sacrifice this blood of mine.
Satan my master, I care in to my rotten flesh your signs.
Satan my master, Remember me when Judgment day is near.
Satan my master, Take my hand when Armageddon's here.


http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/08/sagrin.gif He's such a good kid.

That is a major part of the Shinto faith.  And it is still widely practiced in Japan.

Every year, all of the bases in Okinawa that had tombs on the property had to open their gates to any Japanese National that wanted to enter the base to visit the tombs of their ancestors.  The families would gather at the entrance and basically have a party there.

On Okinawa, the tombs were everywhere.  You might have a single one in a small gully, or you might see a hillside covered with dozens of them.  And because of "Urban Sprawl", it is not unusual to see one between apartment buildings near downtown Naha.

http://www.okinawaindex.com/index/?tid=2&cid=290&id=4


I hadn't heard about that, thanks for the info.  Some people say my believe are kind of like Shamanism.  All I can say is that I'm happy with what I believe and how I believe it.

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/08/sagrin.gif He's such a good kid.


Here's the thing that confuses a lot of people - I don't 'actually' believe in Satan, as in the biblical interpretation, red guy with horns, I simply believe that mankind should stop selling itself short and embrace the darkness we all carry within us, Satan is the embodiment of evil for generations and thus we revere him for taking a stand and allowing himself to become whole instead of the half life that Christian teaching perpetuates.

We all have a dark side and we should embrace it, otherwise we are stifled and shackled.

Here's the thing that confuses a lot of people - I don't 'actually' believe in Satan, as in the biblical interpretation, red guy with horns, I simply believe that mankind should stop selling itself short and embrace the darkness we all carry within us, Satan is the embodiment of evil for generations and thus we revere him for taking a stand and allowing himself to become whole instead of the half life that Christian teaching perpetuates.

We all have a dark side and we should embrace it, otherwise we are stifled and shackled.


It's those "saintly" people that scare me.  I think it's a front.  They reveal their "evil side" in private.  That in itself is a danger.

Here's the thing that confuses a lot of people - I don't 'actually' believe in Satan, as in the biblical interpretation, red guy with horns, I simply believe that mankind should stop selling itself short and embrace the darkness we all carry within us, Satan is the embodiment of evil for generations and thus we revere him for taking a stand and allowing himself to become whole instead of the half life that Christian teaching perpetuates.

We all have a dark side and we should embrace it, otherwise we are stifled and shackled.

I can't think of another group that embraces the principles of Anton LeVey as well as the Christian Right.

I can't think of another group that embraces the principles of Anton LeVey as well as the Christian Right.


Sorry, you can't repeat a karma action without waiting 24 hours.

I think Anton was just more comfortable with who he really was.  The Christian Right fears it.

Sorry, you can't repeat a karma action without waiting 24 hours.

I think Anton was just more comfortable with who he really was.  The Christian Right fears it.

Some would say Ayn Rand...

But the trouble is, neither Ayn Rand nor Anton LeVey would have any use for Dubya.  Guidance for Idiots is more of a Jesus thing!
;)

Some would say Ayn Rand...

But the trouble is, neither Ayn Rand nor Anton LeVey would have any use for Dubya.  Guidance for Idiots is more of a Jesus thing!
;)


I don't think either of them would wish to be used in the same sentence as Dubya. ::)

It's those "saintly" people that scare me.  I think it's a front.  They reveal their "evil side" in private.  That in itself is a danger.


Exactly.

Obviously I don't condone acts of true evil, but allowing yourself to think what you want to think and do what you want to do is important.

It's simply counter-culture. Defiantly taking the opposite tact.

I don't think either of them would wish to be used in the same sentence as Dubya. ::)


Oh, actually Anton LeVey's credo said you should revere Nature and not hurt other people.  So I guess that disqualifies the Christian Right!
::)

I can't think of another group that embraces the principles of Anton LeVey as well as the Christian Right.


Where's the last place one would expect to find the devil?  In church.

Where's the last place one would expect to find the devil?  In church.


Some would assume that that is the first place he would be, depending on what you would believe and how you believe it.

Some would assume that that is the first place he would be, depending on what you would believe and how you believe it.


Exactly.

It's not Satan in the biblical sense, just a face for a term

My basic criteria is that as long as a religion does not endorse unwilling human sacrifice, I have no problem with it.


  as much as i like to say "i have no problem with religion" i kinda do. it bothers me when people don't look at the facts and continue to believe what they want to believe. the same is rue in so many occasions. it saddens me.

  as much as i like to say "i have no problem with religion" i kinda do. it bothers me when people don't look at the facts and continue to believe what they want to believe. the same is rue in so many occasions. it saddens me.

"Facts" are amenable to change.  "Faith" is not. 

That's what bugged me so much abot "Intelligent Design" proponents saying, "Oh, these arrogant scientists think they know everything!"  No, science says, "Here's what the evidence tells us until you can demonstrate something different."  Faith--the way fundies practice it--dictates, "the Bible says it, I believe it, and that's the end of it."
::)

"Facts" are amenable to change.  "Faith" is not. 

That's what bugged me so much abot "Intelligent Design" proponents saying, "Oh, these arrogant scientists think they know everything!"  No, science says, "Here's what the evidence tells us until you can demonstrate something different."  Faith--the way fundies practice it--dictates, "the Bible says it, I believe it, and that's the end of it."
::)


and that's what bothers me. not only do they (not all religious people but a good majority of them) refuse to listen to the hard evidence, they refuse to take it into to consideration.

and that's what bothers me. not only do they (not all religious people but a good majority of them) refuse to listen to the hard evidence, they refuse to take it into to consideration.

It's also what allows fundamentalists to be so obnoxious.

I say, "4+4 = 9."
You say, "You're wrong."  And that's the end of it.

I say, "Christ is not the one true messiah."
You say, "You're wrong...and you're going to burn in hell for all eternity and I'm going to heaven so there!"
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/04/firedevil.gif

I hadn't heard about that, thanks for the info.  Some people say my believe are kind of like Shamanism.  All I can say is that I'm happy with what I believe and how I believe it.


Well, there is nothing wrong with that.  I myself am somewhat of a "heretic".  And even though I consider myself "Christian", most "Christians" would think I was going to hell for my beliefs.

For one, I do not believe in the "Trinity".  To me, that was a Romanization of the early faith.  There is nothing in the Scriptures that says anything about any kind of "three-headed god", therefore I do not accept it.  In fact, I take the Scriptures more seriously then I do the New Testament (which mostly covers how Saul took over the early church for his own purposes).

Even more sacreligiously, I refuse to pray to Jesus.  I take the 3rd Commandment very seriously, and pray to nobody but God.  And since I do not accept Jesus as God (but as his son), I am forbidden to pray to him.

I also accept both Jews and Muslims as "Co-members" of my religion.  We all claim to be descended from Adam & Eve, Noah, and Issac and Abraham.  We all revere such prophets as Moses and Solomon.  So to me, we all worship the same God, even if we choose to do it in different ways.

I also have no problem of other religions, as long as they do not harm others.  I honestly believe that God reveals himself (or herself) to different people in different ways.  And I can't see God sending somebody like Mother Theresa or Mahatma Gandhi ro hell, even though some people claim that is exactly what has happened.  As long as the person has tried to lead a good life, that is what should matter most.

Well, there is nothing wrong with that.  I myself am somewhat of a "heretic".  And even though I consider myself "Christian", most "Christians" would think I was going to hell for my beliefs.

For one, I do not believe in the "Trinity".  To me, that was a Romanization of the early faith.  There is nothing in the Scriptures that says anything about any kind of "three-headed god", therefore I do not accept it.  In fact, I take the Scriptures more seriously then I do the New Testament (which mostly covers how Saul took over the early church for his own purposes).

Even more sacreligiously, I refuse to pray to Jesus.  I take the 3rd Commandment very seriously, and pray to nobody but God.  And since I do not accept Jesus as God (but as his son), I am forbidden to pray to him.

I also accept both Jews and Muslims as "Co-members" of my religion.  We all claim to be descended from Adam & Eve, Noah, and Issac and Abraham.  We all revere such prophets as Moses and Solomon.  So to me, we all worship the same God, even if we choose to do it in different ways.

I also have no problem of other religions, as long as they do not harm others.  I honestly believe that God reveals himself (or herself) to different people in different ways.  And I can't see God sending somebody like Mother Theresa or Mahatma Gandhi ro hell, even though some people claim that is exactly what has happened.  As long as the person has tried to lead a good life, that is what should matter most.


I almost got beaten up once for saying that Jesus was a good Jewish kid with some radical ideals.  (I think Jesus was a hardcore progressive.)  I also think most religions are brought about by a need for a change in society. 

I almost got beaten up once for saying that Jesus was a good Jewish kid with some radical ideals.  (I think Jesus was a hardcore progressive.)  I also think most religions are brought about by a need for a change in society. 

What would Jesus do?

Beat the crap out of you for contradicting Him!
:D

I almost got beaten up once for saying that Jesus was a good Jewish kid with some radical ideals.  (I think Jesus was a hardcore progressive.)  I also think most religions are brought about by a need for a change in society. 


As a Pagan, I believe that Jesus did exist (and was married to Mary) and I think of him as the Martin Luther King of his day-a preacher who tried to teach a new way of looking/responding to things. But I don't think he was the Messiah-he was a man.


Cat

I almost got beaten up once for saying that Jesus was a good Jewish kid with some radical ideals.  (I think Jesus was a hardcore progressive.)  I also think most religions are brought about by a need for a change in society. 


I told my rhetoric class at Berkeley that Jesus was black.  The look on their faces was priceless.

The Autobiography of Malcolm X is a great read.

What would Jesus do?

Beat the crap out of you for contradicting Him!
:D


Blessed are the peacemakers . . . I hope!!!!

I told my rhetoric class at Berkeley that Jesus was black.  The look on their faces was priceless.

The Autobiography of Malcolm X is a great read.



He was either black or very dark skinned. I sincerely doubt he was a blond with blue eyes.



Cat

As a Pagan, I believe that Jesus did exist (and was married to Mary) and I think of him as the Martin Luther King of his day-a preacher who tried to teach a new way of looking/responding to things. But I don't think he was the Messiah-he was a man.


Cat


Did he ever really want to be what modern religion has made him out to be?  No one has been able to really answer that question for me.

Did he ever really want to be what modern religion has made him out to be?  No one has been able to really answer that question for me.



I can't answer this either. I never knew the man.  :D ;D ;D

But IMO, I don't think so. He spoke out against Pharisee of the Jewish community and it seems like the Christian leaders (of ALL denominations) have done similar things. And the fact that many have altered his massage to suit their own needs/fears is probably enough to make him roll over in his grave.



Cat

I can't answer this either. I never knew the man.  :D ;D ;D

But IMO, I don't think so. He spoke out against Pharisee of the Jewish community and it seems like the Christian leaders (of ALL denominations) have done similar things. And the fact that many have altered his massage to suit their own needs/fears is probably enough to make him roll over in his grave.



Cat


I think he was speaking out against the "powers the be" and the abuse of that power.  I think he'd be horrified at what has become of his message.

As a Pagan, I believe that Jesus did exist (and was married to Mary) and I think of him as the Martin Luther King of his day-a preacher who tried to teach a new way of looking/responding to things. But I don't think he was the Messiah-he was a man.


I actually view myself as a Christian, but from a Jewish point of view.  And I view him as both a prophet, and a Messiah.

Messiah actually means "Annointed One".  And there were a great many of them.  Samson was a Messiah, as was David and Daniel.  And in His own words, we are all "Sons of God".  I simply see Him as one of a series of Messiahs, each building upon the works of the one before.

However, I think he was much closer to Martin Luther then he was to Martin Luther King.  Jesus was a revolutionary, who tried to turn the Temple inside-out, in order to clense what he saw as corruption and placidity.  Much as what Martin Luther tried to do to the Roman Catholic Church.

Even if the Roman Catholics are right, I think that Jesus smiled down on Martin for his actions, since it gave the church a well needed "kick in the butt".  His posting of the 95 Theses was no different then Jesus going into the Temple and overturning the tables of the money changers.  And it did force some long-needed changes in the church, including the sale of indulgences.

For one, I do not believe in the "Trinity".  To me, that was a Romanization of the early faith.  There is nothing in the Scriptures that says anything about any kind of "three-headed god", therefore I do not accept it.  In fact, I take the Scriptures more seriously then I do the New Testament (which mostly covers how Saul took over the early church for his own purposes).

Yep.  Problem is, once you've excluded what is Saul/Paul's changing the message to what he thought it should be, there's precious little to go on.



I say, "Christ is not the one true messiah."
You say, "You're wrong...and you're going to burn in hell for all eternity and I'm going to heaven so there!"
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/04/firedevil.gif

He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy ;)

Hold on a sec, wrong messiah...

I actually view myself as a Christian, but from a Jewish point of view.  And I view him as both a prophet, and a Messiah.

Messiah actually means "Annointed One".  And there were a great many of them.  Samson was a Messiah, as was David and Daniel.  And in His own words, we are all "Sons of God".  I simply see Him as one of a series of Messiahs, each building upon the works of the one before.

However, I think he was much closer to Martin Luther then he was to Martin Luther King.  Jesus was a revolutionary, who tried to turn the Temple inside-out, in order to clense what he saw as corruption and placidity.  Much as what Martin Luther tried to do to the Roman Catholic Church.

Even if the Roman Catholics are right, I think that Jesus smiled down on Martin for his actions, since it gave the church a well needed "kick in the butt".  His posting of the 95 Theses was no different then Jesus going into the Temple and overturning the tables of the money changers.  And it did force some long-needed changes in the church, including the sale of indulgences.


Very interesting. I see your point.



Cat

Blessed are the peacemakers . . . I hope!!!!

Congregant: "Blessed are the cheesemakers?"
Mrs. Gregory: "Ah, what's so special about the cheesemakers?"
Mr. Gregory: "Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products."
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/03/cowsleep.gif

Karma+1 to Philbo for the first "Life of Brian" quote!
;)

Congregant: "Blessed are the cheesemakers?"
Mrs. Gregory: "Ah, what's so special about the cheesemakers?"
Mr. Gregory: "Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products."
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/03/cowsleep.gif

Karma+1 to Philbo for the first "Life of Brian" quote!
;)


The crucifixion scene is great.

The crucifixion scene is great.

"I'm Brian... and so's my wife"

Sorry, Karma points awarded only to the first "Life of Brian" quote!
:P

Sorry, Karma points awarded only to the first "Life of Brian" quote!
:P

:)

In that case... "Ni!"

:)

In that case... "Ni!"



I was thinking the same thing.  :D ;D ;D ;D



Cat

Mr. Gregory: "Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products."


But since we are talking about Kosher Dietary Laws, the dairy products can't be mixed with the meat, and served on seperate dishes.

He came from the old Bar Mitzvah spread,
With a 10-gallon yarmulke on his head.
He always followed his mother's wishes,
Even on the range he used two sets of dishes.

From "The Ballad Of Irving"

But since we are talking about Kosher Dietary Laws, the dairy products can't be mixed with the meat, and served on seperate dishes.

He came from the old Bar Mitzvah spread,
With a 10-gallon yarmulke on his head.
He always followed his mother's wishes,
Even on the range he used two sets of dishes.

From "The Ballad Of Irving"



The 142nd fastest gun in the west.  ;) :D ;D ;D ;D


Actually, most kosher laws came from before refrigeration.


Cat

The 142nd fastest gun in the west.  ;) :D ;D ;D ;D

Actually, most kosher laws came from before refrigeration.


Actually, I think they all came from before refrigeration.  :D

Almost all religions have some form of dietary laws.  The Jewish and Muslim are probably the most well known, and in many ways the most strict and precise in what is allowed and what is not allowed.  And along with circumscision, they were among the first requirements that Saul threw out for the new "Christian Church".

A lot of people do not realize that between the 1st centuries BCE and CE, there were a lot of people that converted to the Jewish faith.  And a lot of others who wanted to, but knew they could not put themselves through circumscision or willingly follow the dietary laws.  Saul was smart when he want courting them, because he gave them a way to become members of a "Jewish Sect", and keep themselves, erm, intact.

Actually, I think they all came from before refrigeration.  :D

Almost all religions have some form of dietary laws.  The Jewish and Muslim are probably the most well known, and in many ways the most strict and precise in what is allowed and what is not allowed.  And along with circumscision, they were among the first requirements that Saul threw out for the new "Christian Church".

A lot of people do not realize that between the 1st centuries BCE and CE, there were a lot of people that converted to the Jewish faith.  And a lot of others who wanted to, but knew they could not put themselves through circumscision or willingly follow the dietary laws.  Saul was smart when he want courting them, because he gave them a way to become members of a "Jewish Sect", and keep themselves, erm, intact.



A duh-of course they ALL came before refrigeration. What I meant was that most of the law were due to the fact that refrigeration wasn't around to help preserve food. Like for instance, if you have unpasteurized dairy products in close vicinity of meat, the meat causes the dairy product to curdle. It was a way for them to keep "their people" healthy. Yes, you still have kosher Jews today but many are reformed and see no reason to keep the old traditional way of eating. One time, we went out to lunch with my Jewish grandmother and she ordered a ham sandwich. I said to her, "Not too kosher, huh grandmother." She lives in a Jewish community and they eat kosher all the time so when the residents go out to eat, they usually get "terefah" food.


Cat

A duh-of course they ALL came before refrigeration. What I meant was that most of the law were due to the fact that refrigeration wasn't around to help preserve food. Like for instance, if you have unpasteurized dairy products in close vicinity of meat, the meat causes the dairy product to curdle. It was a way for them to keep "their people" healthy. Yes, you still have kosher Jews today but many are reformed and see no reason to keep the old traditional way of eating. One time, we went out to lunch with my Jewish grandmother and she ordered a ham sandwich. I said to her, "Not too kosher, huh grandmother." She lives in a Jewish community and they eat kosher all the time so when the residents go out to eat, they usually get "terefah" food.


Cat

Ironically, way up in the far north, food poisonings among the indigenous peoples has shot way up since the introduction of electric refrigeration and the abandonment of the old folkways of preservation.