All I keep hearing when I turn on ESPN in the morning are these charges against Michael Vick I have the following questions from people who have knowlege of the situation and I want opinions on them from some people on these boards:

Should Vick be suspended for these charges from the NFL for a number of amount of games if found guilty of these dog fighting charges?

Should Vick serve prison time, do community service, or put on probation if found guilty of these charges?

Will  his race(since Vick is African American) play a role in this case of dog fighting charges in which Vick had dogs fighting on his estate?

I'd like to add a question to your list:

If you think he should serve time, do you think he will since he is a football superstar?

They want to stop him from his job--beating people up--for arranging for dogs to beat eachother up.
Hmmm.....
:-\\

They want to stop him from his job--beating people up--for arranging for dogs to beat eachother up.
Hmmm.....
:-\\


Actually, since he's a quarterback, it's usually other people who try to beat HIM up.

And since quarterbacks hardly ever have to do any blocking, the only time he'd probably have to make aggressive physical contact against another player is if the offence committed a turnover and he was the last guy left to make the tackle.

Actually, since he's a quarterback, it's usually other people who try to beat HIM up.

And since quarterbacks hardly ever have to do any blocking, the only time he'd probably have to make aggressive physical contact against another player is if the offence committed a turnover and he was the last guy left to make the tackle.



Too true...and even then most quarterbacks go out of their way NOT to be in a position to have to tackle---I think I've seen more kickers bring guys down than QBs!

BTW, love your Tenderheart avatar!    :)

Of course he should go to jail.

He broke the law, he goes to jail. Real simple.

Actually, since he's a quarterback, it's usually other people who try to beat HIM up.

And since quarterbacks hardly ever have to do any blocking, the only time he'd probably have to make aggressive physical contact against another player is if the offence committed a turnover and he was the last guy left to make the tackle.

Sorry, I don't know jack squat about who's who in football!
:-
Of course he should go to jail.

He broke the law, he goes to jail. Real simple.

Un, no, he's got money.  He hands a satchel full of hundred dollar bills to some sombich lying lawyer, hangs up the court for weeks with dizzying circumlocution, and gets off the hook on some technicality.  It worked fer O.J. and O.J. done a million times worse!
::)

Un, no, he's got money.  He hands a satchel full of hundred dollar bills to some sombich lying lawyer, hangs up the court for weeks with dizzying circumlocution, and gets off the hook on some technicality.  It worked fer O.J. and O.J. done a million times worse!
::)


If I robbed a bank, then paid off the lawyer with the dirty money...

hmm, this gives me an idea.

If I robbed a bank, then paid off the lawyer with the dirty money...

hmm, this gives me an idea.

The problem with bank robbers is they plan on NOT getting caught.  They should plan on getting caught and how to beat the rap. 
;)

The problem with bank robbers is they plan on NOT getting caught.  They should plan on getting caught and how to beat the rap. 
;)


Well, embezzlement is the big one to go for.

First of all it's white collar, so you'll just go to the prison country club, second, most of the time, if you're good at it and launder it well, they'll let you go if you tell 'em how you did it so they can prevent future occurrences and so the customers don't think they're hopeless.

I plan to embezzle - Embezzlement 'Retiring in George W. Bush's America'.  ;D

Well, embezzlement is the big one to go for.

First of all it's white collar, so you'll just go to the prison country club, second, most of the time, if you're good at it and launder it well, they'll let you go if you tell 'em how you did it so they can prevent future occurrences and so the customers don't think they're hopeless.

I plan to embezzle - Embezzlement 'Retiring in George W. Bush's America'.  ;D


Uh-yuh! You got that right!  Just one thing you're missing:
They'll let you go if you tell 'em how you did it so they can do it that way themselves! Heh-heh!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/09/sasmile.gif

Uh-yuh! You got that right!  Just one thing you're missing:
They'll let you go if you tell 'em how you did it so they can do it that way themselves! Heh-heh!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/09/sasmile.gif


I don't think Ken had that problem.

I don't think Ken had that problem.


Kenny-boy ain't dead!  He's laying low over at Jesse Jackson's place.
They don't know he's there because they haven't looked!
;)

Kenny-boy ain't dead!  He's laying low over at Jesse Jackson's place.
They don't know he's there because they haven't looked!
;)


Would you really want to..

Would you really want to..

Find Ken Lay or go to Jesse Jackson's house?

I think I'd rather find Ken Lay and make him pay back all the money to all those good people (even the onese who were bad).  If I went to Jackson's house I'd just be another honky boy telling him how much he sucks.  I used to be a fan of Jackson, but he done let me down too many times!
::)

Find Ken Lay or go to Jesse Jackson's house?

I think I'd rather find Ken Lay and make him pay back all the money to all those good people (even the onese who were bad).  If I went to Jackson's house I'd just be another honky boy telling him how much he sucks.  I used to be a fan of Jackson, but he done let me down too many times!
::)


Go to Jesse Jackson's house.

I can honestly say I'd rather jack off with Gasoline mixed with Anti-Freeze.

...oowww. ok, maybe 10 minutes with Jesse.

I think he should definitely spend ample time in jail. What he did was totally wrong. I'm just glad he got indicted last week.

Until he's been found guilty in a court of law of the charges brought up against him, he has the right to continue playing football.

Michael Vick being a dynamic rushing QB (1000+ passing and 1000+ rushing yards), he gets beat up a lot and also dishes out a bit of his own punishment.

And now he done gonna get punished, justice style!  W00t!


Until he's been found guilty in a court of law of the charges brought up against him, he has the right to continue playing football.


The commish decided he shouldn't...I think Vick can challenge that though because he hasn't even gone to trial yet.

Just a thought...

PETA is always railing against our culture's cruelty to animals.  In most of the world nobody would give a crap about dog fighting.  Here what Vick did is a major news story night after night.  I'm not going to pick on any culture in particular, but in some places, when they're driving down the road and they see a dog, they don't slow down and beep the horn, they speed up and swerve to hit it!

Sure, we do give PETA plenty to b!tch about, but keep it in perspective, we could be a damn sight worse!
:o

The commish decided he shouldn't...I think Vick can challenge that though because he hasn't even gone to trial yet.


I wonder if he'll challenge. More importantly, is the union going to back him?

I like this new commish.

I wonder if he'll challenge. More importantly, is the union going to back him?

I like this new commish.



I think it'd be incredibly stupid of the player's union to back Vick.

I think there has to be something to these charges that are being bought against him because there is an 18 page indictment thats going against Vick and a witness as well that Vick has bet money on these dog fights.

I haven't really been following this story, but this morning the said the indictment carried charges of beating(to death), drowning, and even hanging(by the neck) the dogs that lost, but did not die.  The whole bunch of them can rot in bumf**k city for all I care.   >:(

I haven't really been following this story, but this morning the said the indictment carried charges of beating(to death), drowning, and even hanging(by the neck) the dogs that lost, but did not die.  The whole bunch of them can rot in bumf**k city for all I care.   >:(


Thank you. You expressed perfectly how I felt.

I don't see why he should get special treatment just because he's missing training camp or whatever the hell it is footballer's do this time of year. And it sounds like that is what's happening: everyone is feeling sorry for this overpaid superstar because he's missing football. Boo hoo. I doubt missing a few weeks of training is going to hurt his bank account much. ::)

I knew a guy who used to hang out at some of the good metal clubs here in town, he was the hardest bastard I ever met.. anywho.. he had this big tattoo of his rottweiler on his arm, called Lucy, when she died he was inconsolable. He's in jail now.. I hope Vick ends up sharing a cell with him.  ;D

I knew a guy who used to hang out at some of the good metal clubs here in town, he was the hardest bastard I ever met.. anywho.. he had this big tattoo of his rottweiler on his arm, called Lucy, when she died he was inconsolable. He's in jail now.. I hope Vick ends up sharing a cell with him.  ;D

Awww....idn't dat touching!  A rough tough cream puff! I'm getting all teared up now!
:\'(
The ladies just love that stuff...except when a guy like that goes to the state pen, he's the lady!

Awww....idn't dat touching!  A rough tough cream puff! I'm getting all teared up now!
:\'(
The ladies just love that stuff...except when a guy like that goes to the state pen, he's the lady!



;D

Not this guy Max.. seriously. People called him Sir.

Un, no, he's got money.  He hands a satchel full of hundred dollar bills to some sombich lying lawyer, hangs up the court for weeks with dizzying circumlocution, and gets off the hook on some technicality.  It worked fer O.J. and O.J. done a million times worse!
::)


They tried to railroad O.J. because of his race.  Fortunately it did not work and he was found innocent by the jury.  If O.J. had not been rich, he'd just be another black man in jail (in the eyes of society).

Until he's been found guilty in a court of law of the charges brought up against him, he has the right to continue playing football.


His NFL contract has a "moral turpetude" clause in it.  That does not require a criminal conviction (although that helps).

I am glad to see that the NFL is starting to get tough with some of the spoiled-sick scum bags that have come into the sport.  I can only hope that basketball will do the same.  Baseball?  Doubtful that they have the 'ads to do it.

Used to be that football players were sort of a role model.  Now many of them just come across as RICH scum bags (as opposed to the poor version).

I am glad to see that the NFL is starting to get tough with some of the spoiled-sick scum bags that have come into the sport.  I can only hope that basketball will do the same.  Baseball?  Doubtful that they have the 'ads to do it.

Used to be that football players were sort of a role model.  Now many of them just come across as RICH scum bags (as opposed to the poor version).



There have always been a$$h@les in all the games,  the only difference is now, with the advent of paparazzi and yellow journalism, the papers report on it, whereas before they made heroes out of some pretty questionable guys.  I think it is better this way, report them so they can't get away with what they do, but don't ever think this is new and unusual.

There have always been a$$h@les in all the games,  the only difference is now, with the advent of paparazzi and yellow journalism, the papers report on it, whereas before they made heroes out of some pretty questionable guys.  I think it is better this way, report them so they can't get away with what they do, but don't ever think this is new and unusual.

Exactly. The scummy things pro athletes did in the past often went by unnoticed.  Unfortunately, no matter what they do to Michale Vick will not stop the bloodsport.  As long as  pitbull fighting is part of gangster life, and gangerst by definition live outside the law, and poverty and hopelessness creates an endless supply of gangbangers, pitbull fighting will go along its merry way.

Exactly. The scummy things pro athletes did in the past often went by unnoticed.  Unfortunately, no matter what they do to Michale Vick will not stop the bloodsport.  As long as  pitbull fighting is part of gangster life, and gangerst by definition live outside the law, and poverty and hopelessness creates an endless supply of gangbangers, pitbull fighting will go along its merry way.



Dog fighting is a gangsta sport, not a gangster sport.

Gangsters while away their time perfecting tomato sauce and teaching each other how to slice garlic so thin that you can read through it.   :P  They also tend to live longer because they are less prone to violence (although when business conditions warrant it, they certainly will employ it).

Dog fighting is a gangsta sport, not a gangster sport.




Not true, the boys in the North End do the dogs and the cock fighting.  Once again, this isn't anything new.

Not true, the boys in the North End do the dogs and the cock fighting.  Once again, this isn't anything new.

Amen to that!
::)

I once lived in a mafia neighborhood.  There was no street crime.  The mafiosos just dealt the drugs, guns, and prostitution that brought about the violence in the other neighborhoods.  As a private citizen, if you didn't have anything to do with them, they didn't have anything to do with you.  If you own a business in the neighborhood, then you gotta pay the man (I mean, you know, fires happen).  The donut shop was a front for a bookie joint!  If you hired their services, then your life would get more complicated than you bargained for!  The one violent crime when I lived in Orient Heights was a doozie.  Vinnie the Animal whacked one of his rivals in the guy's car right in front of the laundromat.  I was on my way to the T stop and the cops had the whole place taped off and the car covered up.
The cops were asking questions, but nobody saw nothin.'
I said, nobody saw nothin'! 
Right?  Riiiiight!  You're a smart fella, you catch on fast!
;)

To recap, the mafia sold crack in Eastie to the crack dealers who sold it on the street in the 'bury.  I don't consider that a nonviolent crime, and neither would the street dealer if he failed to pay the mob their cut!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/03/couto.gif

Any depiction of "the mafia" you see in entertainment is going to be romanticized, even the Sopranos (especially the Sopranos), because you need a sympathetic character to sell the show.
Tony Soprano was a rought tough cream puff.
Henry Hill beat some guys up, but he didn't kill anybody.

Amen to that!
::)


Any depiction of "the mafia" you see in entertainment is going to be romanticized, even the Sopranos (especially the Sopranos), because you need a sympathetic character to sell the show.
Tony Soprano was a rought tough cream puff.
Henry Hill beat some guys up, but he didn't kill anybody.


But how many ageing gangstas have you ever heard of?  There are LOTS of mafiosi who live to a ripe old age.

Mafiosi are indeed a group that will use violence.  No doubt about that.  But not nearly as gratuitously as gangstas.  It is more discrete, and mafia violence is done more for a "business purpose" (vile as it may be) as opposed to the gangstas who see violence as simply part of the thug life style.  You are not hearing about an unusually high death-by-violence rate amongst italian men in the 18-34 bracket.

Mafiosi (the ones who live long) do not attempt to draw attention to themselves.  Gangstas wear all sorts of bling and draw attention to themselves. "Gangsta" is nore of a lifestyle choise whereas La Cosa Nostra is more about making money by any means possible.  But mafiosi would rather not use violence (but it does not take alot to convince them to use it).

But how many ageing gangstas have you ever heard of?  There are LOTS of mafiosi who live to a ripe old age.

Mafiosi are indeed a group that will use violence.  No doubt about that.  But not nearly as gratuitously as gangstas.  It is more discrete, and mafia violence is done more for a "business purpose" (vile as it may be) as opposed to the gangstas who see violence as simply part of the thug life style.  You are not hearing about an unusually high death-by-violence rate amongst italian men in the 18-34 bracket.

Mafiosi (the ones who live long) do not attempt to draw attention to themselves.  Gangstas wear all sorts of bling and draw attention to themselves. "Gangsta" is nore of a lifestyle choise whereas La Cosa Nostra is more about making money by any means possible.  But mafiosi would rather not use violence (but it does not take alot to convince them to use it).


I've always had a certain amount of respect for the Mafia. They sell drugs and pimp out women yes.. and they kill people.. yes.. but their killing is not generally indiscriminate, they maintain order in the neighborhoods they operate in and one things for sure.. you don't see Mafia drive by's on 9 year old kids.

^ I'm sorry fellas, this is silly.  A cursory reading of organized crime among Italian Americans over the past century will reveal all the same "gangsta" life you see among African-Americans involved in street crime.  And, yes, those young mafia thugs who flaunted it tended to die young. 

What you are responsing to is a romanticized version of La Cosa Nostra brought about in fictional narratives.

I'm guessing the difference for you gents is that Black street gangstas intimidate you (for reasons not altogether unfounded) and mafia organized crime does not.  I explained earlier that young Black street thug is merely the contact point between the chain of organized crime, law enforcement payoffs, government corruption, failed social poicy and you.  To blame the Black street thug for the violent world of criminal syndicalism is like blaming the wall socket for the electic shock.

^ I'm sorry fellas, this is silly.  A cursory reading of organized crime among Italian Americans over the past century will reveal all the same "gangsta" life you see among African-Americans involved in street crime.  And, yes, those young mafia thugs who flaunted it tended to die young. 

What you are responsing to is a romanticized version of La Cosa Nostra brought about in fictional narratives.

I'm guessing the difference for you gents is that Black street gangstas intimidate you (for reasons not altogether unfounded) and mafia organized crime does not.  I explained earlier that young Black street thug is merely the contact point between the chain of organized crime, law enforcement payoffs, government corruption, failed social poicy and you.  To blame the Black street thug for the violent world of criminal syndicalism is like blaming the wall socket for the electic shock.


Name one 75-year-old notorious Gangsta, that's all I am saying.  The reasons Gangstas burn up so quickly is that there is the gratuitous violence.

On the other hand, in my profession I have run across a number of the "movie style" gangsters and conducted above-board, legal business.  The deals were decent.  I never got screwed.  In one case (I am told) an otherwise straight business associate of his reneged on a deal.  And one of my employees saw this guy choking the shot outta the recalictrant partner.  Never happened to me, I always dealt straight up.  (To this day, the guy who got choked denies ever having had any business dealings with my buddy but that is completely false).  Even now, many years later, the businessman says "LyricBoy, I appreciate that you gave me respect when I needed it."

I also have done business (and lots of it) with another businessman who has a fairly shady background.  When a competitor of mine provided a shoddy-quality product to them, and then would not make good on the defective material, this businessman threatened to send his guys over there and do bodily harm to them.  It was simply business.  They never bothered me.  I stood behind my deals, and when things went wrong occasionally, I made good on them.

And you'd never know from the modest lives these guys lead that they are "operators".  They keep a low profile and only kick azz when needed.  No limos, no gaudy gold jewelry, not even a pinky ring.

(By the way if you wonder why I have so many shady business associates, it is because in my industry, if you did not deal with these guys you would not be able to conduct mych business in some cities.  It is not a "protection scheme", they have just decided to create (at least this is what I think) staight businesses in the industry.)

On the other hand, if I had to deal with a "Gangsta" I would find a new industy.  Too much chance of getting shot in an indiscrimiate drive-by.  That's the Gangsta life style and it is vastly more dngerous than the mafia lifestyle.

Of course if one has to choose between Mafia and Gangsta, you really need to be looking for "Door Number Three"...

Name one 75-year-old notorious Gangsta, that's all I am saying.  The reasons Gangstas burn up so quickly is that there is the gratuitous violence.



I can't name one 75-year-old notorious Gangsta.  Period.  That's silly.  The "Gangsta" sub-culture hasn't been around that long. 
Yes, I understand about organized crime influence in legit business, but you still miss my point.
::)

I've always had a certain amount of respect for the Mafia. They sell drugs and pimp out women yes.. and they kill people.. yes.. but their killing is not generally indiscriminate, they maintain order in the neighborhoods they operate in and one things for sure.. you don't see Mafia drive by's on 9 year old kids.


Crap.  I live in the Boston area and work in construction, putting me in close proximity to many of these people(what is it about construction? the cement maybe?).  Here we have the Italian and Irish and African American Mafias, call them what you will, gangster or gangsta, they do the same thing and all work together, somewhat tenuously, but together nonetheless.  The Godfather and the Sopranos don't tell the whole story.  Take for instance Bostons own Whitey Bulger, currently on the FBIs most wanted list, although there is reason to believe they really don't want him caught.  There are many still in Southie who shed a tear for old Whitey and say how safe the streets were with him.  Crap, again. Here is a guy who introduced the infamous "angel dust" into Boston, first into the very streets of Southie, his hometown.  Got himself an nice little heroin business going, too. He also strangled two young women to death, with his bare hands.  One was the step-daughter of his partner Steve"the Rifleman" Flemmi.  See, Steve had started giving her drugs and raping her at the age of 11.  When she was 26 they decided she was a liability and strangled her and buried her in front of the Florian Hall, that is the function hall of the Boston firefighters.  There was another girlfriend of Flemmi, Debra Davis, also 26.  She made the unpardonable sin of deciding to move away to the Caribbean and start life with another man.  She was also strangled, by Flemmi and Bulger, with there bare hands, and buried in the same place.  No one noticed fresh grave shaped plots showing up overnight. "Nobody saw Nothin', not even the gunfight in the childrens playground in broad daylight.   You see in those neighborhoods the bodies are buried and nobody sees nothing. They even have a term "Code of Silence" and it doesn't matter who is killed, your mother, father, brother, sister, child, you don't report the missing, you don't call the cops, you don't see, hear, or speak.  It is a hardcore attitude that even you, in your thrashmeister persona, could only guess at.

Crap.  I live in the Boston area and work in construction, putting me in close proximity to many of these people(what is it about construction? the cement maybe?).  Here we have the Italian and Irish and African American Mafias, call them what you will, gangster or gangsta, they do the same thing and all work together, somewhat tenuously, but together nonetheless.  The Godfather and the Sopranos don't tell the whole story.  Take for instance Bostons own Whitey Bulger, currently on the FBIs most wanted list, although there is reason to believe they really don't want him caught.  There are many still in Southie who shed a tear for old Whitey and say how safe the streets were with him.  Crap, again. Here is a guy who introduced the infamous "angel dust" into Boston, first into the very streets of Southie, his hometown.  Got himself an nice little heroin business going, too. He also strangled two young women to death, with his bare hands.  One was the step-daughter of his partner Steve"the Rifleman" Flemmi.  See, Steve had started giving her drugs and raping her at the age of 11.  When she was 26 they decided she was a liability and strangled her and buried her in front of the Florian Hall, that is the function hall of the Boston firefighters.  There was another girlfriend of Flemmi, Debra Davis, also 26.  She made the unpardonable sin of deciding to move away to the Caribbean and start life with another man.  She was also strangled, by Flemmi and Bulger, with there bare hands, and buried in the same place.  No one noticed fresh grave shaped plots showing up overnight. "Nobody saw Nothin', not even the gunfight in the childrens playground in broad daylight.   You see in those neighborhoods the bodies are buried and nobody sees nothing. They even have a term "Code of Silence" and it doesn't matter who is killed, your mother, father, brother, sister, child, you don't report the missing, you don't call the cops, you don't see, hear, or speak.  It is a hardcore attitude that even you, in your thrashmeister persona, could only guess at.



That's the one thing I agree with Howie Carr on:  He hates the Bulger brothers and so do I!
Billy Bulger was the president of UMass, which was totally embarrassing.  It's hard to say where and when Billy is corrupt 'cos it's hard to see the forest for the trees!  And everybody knows he knows where Whitey (BTW, Whitey is still on the FBI 10 most wanted), but you can't pin Billy down and make him 'fess up.  Sick, sick, sick!

I'd rather meet G. Money Jackson in an ally in Roxbury than Whitey in an ally in Southie, and Whitey's old!

Whitey might be responsible for as many as 20 murders; among the strongarm tactics Whitey and crew used to employ: Pulling teeth out with pliers and putting a guy's hand in a toaster to make hime talk!

Then Whitey rigged the lottery.  The stupid TV crews went down to Southie and asked the residents on camera if they thought Whitey's big sweep was legit:
"Hey, his dollah's just's good as anybody else's!"
"Congratulation's Whitey, we love you, man!"
:D

You see in those neighborhoods the bodies are buried and nobody sees nothing. They even have a term "Code of Silence" and it doesn't matter who is killed, your mother, father, brother, sister, child, you don't report the missing, you don't call the cops, you don't see, hear, or speak.  It is a hardcore attitude that even you, in your thrashmeister persona, could only guess at.


To a point.

You don't know where and when I grew up do you.  ;)

You never, ever grass anybody up to the police.. ever, because your life is in far more danger if you do than if you just kept quiet, plus, it's a matter of respect.

There's always exceptions to the rule.. and when dealing with people like this, the exceptions often make up half of the rule, but put it this way.. I wish the familys on the hill here in St. Louis would start moving back through the neighborhoods to get rid of the crack dealers mowing down kids.

You never, ever grass anybody up to the police.. ever, because your life is in far more danger if you do than if you just kept quiet, plus, it's a matter of respect.





Yes, but the bigger problem is the gangsters and cops are very much the same.  Steve "the Riflemans" brother was a Boston Cop, Whiteys had a brother who was a cop, and a brother who was President of the State Senate, and they all lived in Southie.  One of the biggest hushed up stories is the one of the familial connections between the mob, the cops, and the courts. The mob got real smart and instead of buying the service of cops and politicians, they birthed them.  While people beat their breasts about affirmative action finding places for African Americans, women, Asians, and Latinos, the people who have a hereditary lock on the jobs have been filling them with gangsters.  No need to "grass", the cops know what is going on, they find out at the kitchen table, and help to keep the people in fear, and cover up the crimes, in some cases commit the crimes. It hasn't anything to do with respect, the people have figured out that there isn't anything there worthy of respect.  It is fear only.

Yes, but the bigger problem is the gangsters and cops are very much the same.  Steve "the Riflemans" brother was a Boston Cop, Whiteys had a brother who was a cop, and a brother who was President of the State Senate, and they all lived in Southie.  One of the biggest hushed up stories is the one of the familial connections between the mob, the cops, and the courts. The mob got real smart and instead of buying the service of cops and politicians, they birthed them.  While people beat their breasts about affirmative action finding places for African Americans, women, Asians, and Latinos, the people who have a hereditary lock on the jobs have been filling them with gangsters.  No need to "grass", the cops know what is going on, they find out at the kitchen table, and help to keep the people in fear, and cover up the crimes, in some cases commit the crimes. It hasn't anything to do with respect, the people have figured out that there isn't anything there worthy of respect.  It is fear only.


Fear commands respect.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating any sort of system in which almost a hereditary birth right is granted upon those born in to the right families.. that's a monarchy.. of sorts. I'm merely of the opinion.. that crime is always..always going to be prevalent and I'd much prefer to have an organized group who 'generally' keep the peace, running things.. rather than dozens of gangs running around killing each other and innocent bystanders.

Fear commands respect.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating any sort of system in which almost a hereditary birth right is granted upon those born in to the right families.. that's a monarchy.. of sorts. I'm merely of the opinion.. that crime is always..always going to be prevalent and I'd much prefer to have an organized group who 'generally' keep the peace, running things.. rather than dozens of gangs running around killing each other and innocent bystanders.


I can see where you are coming from, and it would be nice, I agree.  Unfortunately it is a utopian idea.  People, for whatever reason, aren't yet ready to admit that just because their kid is their kid it doesn't mean that they are best person to walk in their shoes.  It happens in business, in the mob, and even the presidency of the United States of America.  The Divine Right of Kings is still a notion that is alive and thriving. 

Fear commands respect.


Fear commands deference, not respect.

Most people who talk of "respect" nowadays don't even know what respect is.  The object of the game is to give as few people "respect" as possible while commanding the "respect" of as many people as possible at the same time.  The "respect," my friend, is all about fear and is totally "gangsta."

If you respect a person, that means you admire his virtues; that means you would like to emulate his behavior; that means you think he is worthy of of his station in life (he or she/his or her, I should say).  "Respect" does not mean you defer to his power because he can hurt you...and, as in gangsta land, you will only defer to his power until you can whack him. 

I respect no person I have ever feared.  People who use fear to manipulate others deserve no respect. 

The only reason I address a bully cop as "sir" is I don't want a citation and I don't want to go to prison.  If I could get away with it, I would probably shoot him in the foot with his own service revolver. 
::)

Fear commands deference, not respect.

Most people who talk of "respect" nowadays don't even know what respect is.  The object of the game is to give as few people "respect" as possible while commanding the "respect" of as many people as possible at the same time.  The "respect," my friend, is all about fear and is totally "gangsta."

If you respect a person, that means you admire his virtues; that means you would like to emulate his behavior; that means you think he is worthy of of his station in life (he or she/his or her, I should say).  "Respect" does not mean you defer to his power because he can hurt you...and, as in gangsta land, you will only defer to his power until you can whack him. 

I respect no person I have ever feared.  People who use fear to manipulate others deserve no respect. 

The only reason I address a bully cop as "sir" is I don't want a citation and I don't want to go to prison.  If I could get away with it, I would probably shoot him in the foot with his own service revolver. 
::)


http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/15/thumbsup.gif

Fear commands deference, not respect.

Most people who talk of "respect" nowadays don't even know what respect is.  The object of the game is to give as few people "respect" as possible while commanding the "respect" of as many people as possible at the same time.  The "respect," my friend, is all about fear and is totally "gangsta."

If you respect a person, that means you admire his virtues; that means you would like to emulate his behavior; that means you think he is worthy of of his station in life (he or she/his or her, I should say).  "Respect" does not mean you defer to his power because he can hurt you...and, as in gangsta land, you will only defer to his power until you can whack him. 

I respect no person I have ever feared.  People who use fear to manipulate others deserve no respect. 

The only reason I address a bully cop as "sir" is I don't want a citation and I don't want to go to prison.  If I could get away with it, I would probably shoot him in the foot with his own service revolver. 
::)


I wouldn't say that..

I have respect for numerous people who I should.. and to a certain extent do.. fear. It's not so much I'm afraid of them, but I'm simply aware that life would remain much easier if they were treated with the due respect that they deserve. Simply put, respect is earned through fairness and decency. Somebody who is erratic and unpredictable you will fear, but you'll never respect them because they don't command it. Somebody that you respect will have earned it.. and you know that if their is reciprocal respect, because of the fairness and decency of the individual in question, things will remain cushdy.

It's kind of like when you run about with a firm, there's always.. always a top boy, you give him the respect he deserves because you've seen what he's done for you and the rest of the lads and in turn he'll treat everybody equally and with dignity.

It's kind of like when you run about with a firm, there's always.. always a top boy, you give him the respect he deserves because you've seen what he's done for you and the rest of the lads and in turn he'll treat everybody equally and with dignity.




No, not true at all.  The Ken Lays are the rule, not the exception. I have worked for too many that I don't respect, who didn't deserve respect, and I would say most did not treat everybody equally and with dignity. It is why I have had many different jobs, not being willing to take the crap, and why I thank heaven that I am now in a union. Even in the union there are many in managerial positions in the union who I respect and many I don't.  Luckily it is a large union and I can work through different business agents, the ones I do respect.

No, not true at all.  The Ken Lays are the rule, not the exception. I have worked for too many that I don't respect, who didn't deserve respect, and I would say most did not treat everybody equally and with dignity. It is why I have had many different jobs, not being willing to take the crap, and why I thank heaven that I am now in a union. Even in the union there are many in managerial positions in the union who I respect and many I don't.  Luckily it is a large union and I can work through different business agents, the ones I do respect.


Firm meaning Mob.. not business.  ;) It's rare I've had any respect for anybody I've worked for.

There's always wankers, of course.. this could be where the wires are crossed. Like I say, when I said a Firm, I meant a mob like.. the blokes you run with. There's always a top boy and he'll be the top boy because of what he's done in the past to earn your respect.

Now, in the working environment, it's very different, you're 100% correct, the blokes at the top are often corrupt pricks quite willing to do you up the jacksie if it means a higher profit margin.

There's a difference between reacting with fear to somebody who wields power versus the person wielding power deliberately using it to instill fear.

Firm meaning Mob.. not business.  ;) It's rare I've had any respect for anybody I've worked for.

There's always wankers, of course.. this could be where the wires are crossed. Like I say, when I said a Firm, I meant a mob like.. the blokes you run with. There's always a top boy and he'll be the top boy because of what he's done in the past to earn your respect.



Oh, ok, well the same holds true.  I don't know what your criteria for respecting someone is, but to be top job in the mob(I didn't mean that, it just came out that way) takes brains, but also a ruthlessness that delves right into inhumanity.  To be "made" you have to whack someone, no questions asked, to get the top job you have to be willing to do that and more, unless of course you inherit the title like Gotti jr, which is much the way these days.  Whitey Bulger didn't inherit, he made his own way to the top, but look at how he did it.  He commanded deference, but respect?  No, no way.

Oh, ok, well the same holds true.  I don't know what your criteria for respecting someone is, but to be top job in the mob(I didn't mean that, it just came out that way) takes brains, but also a ruthlessness that delves right into inhumanity.  To be "made" you have to whack someone, no questions asked, to get the top job you have to be willing to do that and more, unless of course you inherit the title like Gotti jr, which is much the way these days.  Whitey Bulger didn't inherit, he made his own way to the top, but look at how he did it.  He commanded deference, but respect?  No, no way.


I'm sorry, this is one of those two people seperated by a common language things.

Back in the UK (and actually, over most of Europe and South America) all Football teams have firms.. groups of fans who are exceptionally devoted to their team and town.. these are usually called Firms or Mobs.. I suppose, in the same vein as THE Mob, but not exactly the same. But, that being said, your definition is reasonably accurate, it takes brains and ruthlessness to be the top boy, but to achieve that over time, you'll have proved to everybody else that you're more than willing to take a beating and help out your mates.

I'm sorry, this is one of those two people seperated by a common language things.

Back in the UK (and actually, over most of Europe and South America) all Football teams have firms.. groups of fans who are exceptionally devoted to their team and town.. these are usually called Firms or Mobs.. I suppose, in the same vein as THE Mob, but not exactly the same. But, that being said, your definition is reasonably accurate, it takes brains and ruthlessness to be the top boy, but to achieve that over time, you'll have proved to everybody else that you're more than willing to take a beating and help out your mates.


Yeah, but at some point that is just plain stupid.  Like the "stand-up" guys who kept their mouths shut and do time for someone elses crime. I worked with a couple of them, one guy did 25 years.  They admit, they were young, they were stupid, and the guys who did the actual crime get to walk around the neighborhood, see their families, live their lives, forget the BS about the neighbors ostracizing them.  The families of the guys who do the time don't get "taken care of" either.  They suffer and watch the person who was responsible everyday, living their lives. To be willing to jump in and help your buddy avoid a beating is one thing, but sometimes your mate may deserve the beating, that to me is a "stand-up" guy.  Someone who takes their own beatings without expecting someone to take one with, or for, them.

Yeah, but at some point that is just plain stupid.  Like the "stand-up" guys who kept their mouths shut and do time for someone elses crime. I worked with a couple of them, one guy did 25 years.  They admit, they were young, they were stupid, and the guys who did the actual crime get to walk around the neighborhood, see their families, live their lives, forget the BS about the neighbors ostracizing them.  The families of the guys who do the time don't get "taken care of" either.  They suffer and watch the person who was responsible everyday, living their lives. To be willing to jump in and help your buddy avoid a beating is one thing, but sometimes your mate may deserve the beating, that to me is a "stand-up" guy.  Someone who takes their own beatings without expecting someone to take one with, or for, them.


Maybe my example was a bad one.. as obviously, nothing goes on that is deserving of a long stretch.. the laws have been toughend up to prevent such occurrences, but they still go on.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/08/01/bc.fbn.vick.reporterapo.ap/index.html?cnn=yes

Foot-in-mouth disease, yes...but unfortunately, he's essentially correct, they have really wonky ways of punishing athletes in professional sports.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/08/01/bc.fbn.vick.reporterapo.ap/index.html?cnn=yes

Foot-in-mouth disease, yes...but unfortunately, he's essentially correct, they have really wonky ways of punishing athletes in professional sports.


I agree, what he said is absolutely right, but this isn't just in athletics, for some reason stories of mistreated animals do end up generating more of an outcry than mistreatment of people in general.

I agree, what he said is absolutely right, but this isn't just in athletics, for some reason stories of mistreated animals do end up generating more of an outcry than mistreatment of people in general.


Because animals are a) nicer than people and b) it's not like they can do anything about it.

Seriously, if I saw somebody kicking the s**t out of some guy.. or kicking the s**t out of a dog.. I'd help the dog first.

Because animals are a) nicer than people and b) it's not like they can do anything about it.

Seriously, if I saw somebody kicking the s**t out of some guy.. or kicking the s**t out of a dog.. I'd help the dog first.


Yeah...well... I think I'd probably do the same.... :)

I was reading in the newspaper that they are turning this into a race issue now.

I was reading in the newspaper that they are turning this into a race issue now.


That didn't take long.

I couldn't care less what color you are. Harming animals just to gain money is crap, especially when you're already loaded. That's why you won't see me at zoos or circuses.

I was reading in the newspaper that they are turning this into a race issue now.


It's divided across race lines...more black people are in support of Vick than white people.  Probably was the same with OJ but I didn't really pay attention after the worst car chase in history :P

Yeah...well... I think I'd probably do the same.... :)


Right, for all you know the person getting the s**t kicked out of them deserves it.. help the dog then go give them a shoeing.  ;D


I was reading in the newspaper that they are turning this into a race issue now.


Which is interesting because if there was ever a typical white man Michael Vick is it.

College educated for free, earning millions of dollars through very little work, the admiration of millions of morons.. he sounds more and more like a CEO every day.  ;D

College educated for free, earning millions of dollars through very little work, the admiration of millions of morons.. he sounds more and more like a CEO every day.  ;D

Karma +1!

But wait...as far as I can tell, Vick only hurt people on grid, and what he did to those dogs was g*dd*m disgrace.  However, when corporations shut down U.S. plants and put hundreds of people out of work....well, there's not much comparison.

I just ran across this story on CNN. What say you fine people about it?

http://www.wlwt.com/news/13826440/detail.html

I just ran across this story on CNN. What say you fine people about it?

http://www.wlwt.com/news/13826440/detail.html

That creep absolutely should not get that dog back.  Just my opinion.

From the news accounts, it looks like Vick is headed for the dog pound now.  Plus a big punitive fine.

Gambling or not, his NFL playing days are over.  And rightfully so.  Who wants to watch a guy out on the gridiron when they know that he financed and operated a dog fighting ring, and personally stabbed, electrocuted, clubbed, and hung dogs?  That sort of behaviour is a bit in excess of the usual bar fight violence you usually hear about pro ath-a-letes.

From the news accounts, it looks like Vick is headed for the dog pound now.  Plus a big punitive fine.

Gambling or not, his NFL playing days are over.  And rightfully so.  Who wants to watch a guy out on the gridiron when they know that he financed and operated a dog fighting ring, and personally stabbed, electrocuted, clubbed, and hung dogs?  That sort of behaviour is a bit in excess of the usual bar fight violence you usually hear about pro ath-a-letes.


I think he got off too lightly. I'd love to see him stabbed, clubbed, and electrocuted. And I doubt the NFL will do much to him. He's high profile, and they know that if they suspend him for a few months or years, they can bring him back to draw in crowds, even if they do boo. Because, as the old saying goes, "There is no such thing as bad publicity".

I read somewhere (not sure if this is true) that what he plead to yesterday was only part of the charges. He still has to face state charges (?), and those are a little bit more excessive than what they smacked him with yesterday. I hope it's true. It's about time a celebrity was given something harsher than four days in jail and a fine.

I think he got off too lightly. I'd love to see him stabbed, clubbed, and electrocuted. And I doubt the NFL will do much to him. He's high profile, and they know that if they suspend him for a few months or years, they can bring him back to draw in crowds, even if they do boo. Because, as the old saying goes, "There is no such thing as bad publicity".



Absolutely! I'm glad to hear he's getting jailtime. It would be nice if they never ever let him return to the NFL. >:(

From the news accounts, it looks like Vick is headed for the dog pound now.

Is that like "Tha Dogg Pound" with Snoop and Nate?
:D


Gambling or not, his NFL playing days are over.  And rightfully so.  Who wants to watch a guy out on the gridiron when they know that he financed and operated a dog fighting ring, and personally stabbed, electrocuted, clubbed, and hung dogs?  That sort of behaviour is a bit in excess of the usual bar fight violence you usually hear about pro ath-a-letes.


I got a new sport--
Michael Vick has to strip down and cover himself in A1 sauce, and then we release a pack of hungry pitbulls.  Ladies and gentlemen, place your bets!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/04/dogrun.gif

I got a new sport--
Michael Vick has to strip down and cover himself in A1 sauce, and then we release a pack of hungry pitbulls.  Ladies and gentlemen, place your bets!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/04/dogrun.gif


Hey hey now! Let's not just include pit bulls! I'm sure on behalf of all dogkind, my ratdog of a chihuahua would like a stab at him!

Hmmm... I smell an opportunity.

Once Vick gets out of jail, I could use him as the celebrity spokesman for my new ointment "Fire in the Hole".

THe ad copy could show a newly reformed Vick, looking straight into the camera, sort of like those Valtrex commercials. "You know, back during my dog days in prison, there were... well.. difficult times if you know what I mean.  But Fire in the Hole soothed my pain."

Hmmm... I smell an opportunity.

Once Vick gets out of jail, I could use him as the celebrity spokesman for my new ointment "Fire in the Hole".

THe ad copy could show a newly reformed Vick, looking straight into the camera, sort of like those Valtrex commercials. "You know, back during my dog days in prison, there were... well.. difficult times if you know what I mean.  But Fire in the Hole soothed my pain."

Vick's vapor rub?
:P

Hmmm... I smell an opportunity.

Once Vick gets out of jail, I could use him as the celebrity spokesman for my new ointment "Fire in the Hole".

THe ad copy could show a newly reformed Vick, looking straight into the camera, sort of like those Valtrex commercials. "You know, back during my dog days in prison, there were... well.. difficult times if you know what I mean.  But Fire in the Hole soothed my pain."


LMAO!

Michael Vick is going to be a bigger celebrity in prison then he ever was on or off the field. He will be applauded for "keeping it real".

Michael Vick is going to be a bigger celebrity in prison then he ever was on or off the field. He will be applauded for "keeping it real".


Yep.  He'll have real street cred.

I forsee that for the rest of his life he'll be greeted by fas who raise their hands and shout "woof woof woof".  ;D

he's an animal.

Well he got 23 months in jail for the dogfight charges. I thought myself he should have gotten 36 months in jail for the dogfighting charges but what can you do?

Well he got 23 months in jail for the dogfight charges. I thought myself he should have gotten 36 months in jail for the dogfighting charges but what can you do?

I think he should've gotten longer too. What he did is just sick. 8-P

I think he should have gotten more myself. He got off fairly easy for what he did, with good behavior they said he's out like in Summer '09.  ::)

It's not over yet. He still hasn't been charged in Virginia. Plus if you think about it, he got hit hard in the wallet (no endorsments, NFL might be out, etc.), which will probably make him cry more than the jail sentence.

I'll bet that poor boy wishes he just started a stamp collection instead!
:D

A little update on the dogs that were confiscated. The story brought tears to my eyes that so many people cared enough to realize that all the dogs weren't bad, just disgustingly mistreated.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/01/27/vick.dogs.ap/index.html

Too bad people can't show the same compassion for kids in the same situation

Ya, thread is old but I didn't feel like starting a new one.

So, The NFL has re-instated Michael Vick.
This means he can sign right now with a team and finish out the pre-season and be playing full-time again by the sixth week of the season. ::)


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/07/27/vick/

Ya, thread is old but I didn't feel like starting a new one.

So, The NFL has re-instated Michael Vick.
This means he can sign right now with a team and finish out the pre-season and be playing full-time again by the sixth week of the season. ::)


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/07/27/vick/


So basically he can start training now, the team that signs him can have him practice with the team until week 6 when he can actually play.

Any teams will bite on him? ooh, bad joke..OK..any takers?
He should sign with Cleveland (they have he dog pound)

Ya, thread is old but I didn't feel like starting a new one.

So, The NFL has re-instated Michael Vick.
This means he can sign right now with a team and finish out the pre-season and be playing full-time again by the sixth week of the season. ::)


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/07/27/vick/


F*ck him.

Well, now that Detroit has Stafford, I guess the next team in need of some talent would be the St. Louis Rams.  They've got little to lose, and Vick could improve their team considerably (despite what would assuredly also result in plenty of negative publicity).

F*ck him.

Wonder how much of that he got in prison  :D

Ya, thread is old but I didn't feel like starting a new one.

So, The NFL has re-instated Michael Vick.
This means he can sign right now with a team and finish out the pre-season and be playing full-time again by the sixth week of the season. ::)


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/07/27/vick/



I saw this earlier and have been trying to hold my tongue on commenting, but I agree with Jessica-


F*ck him.


>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
And whatever team is ignorant enough to sign him!


Please not the Cowboys...Please not the Cowboys....

Probably not the Cowboys, since they still have Romo.  Got $10 says Oakland will try it because the owner is nuts and self-destructive :P

Probably not the Cowboys, since they still have Romo.  Got $10 says Oakland will try it because the owner is nuts and self-destructive :P

Oakland can have him.
Cowboys have Romo, no need for Vick.

Oakland can have him.
Cowboys have Romo, no need for Vick.


I'd prefer that Oakland sack the owner, but that won't happen :D

I'd prefer that Oakland sack the owner, but that won't happen :D

Release the hounds  :D

Wonder how much of that he got in prison  :D


Hopefully enough that he'll never need use of an enema ever again.


Oakland can have him.
Cowboys have Romo, no need for Vick.


If Oakland takes him, I will have to turn in my membership card to Raider Nation.  I take a lot of crap for being a diehard Oakland fan, but having that dipshyt on our team would be the ultimate insult.  Rice is right though,  Al Davis will probably try to land him because Al Davis is an überbutthead.

I saw this earlier and have been trying to hold my tongue on commenting, but I agree with Jessica-
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
And whatever team is ignorant enough to sign him!

Exactly as I was thinking when I saw it was resurrected.



Please not the Cowboys...Please not the Cowboys....


Probably not the Cowboys, since they still have Romo.  Got $10 says Oakland will try it because the owner is nuts and self-destructive :P

I hope no team decides to pick him up, personally...but in the long run I don't care one way or the other.

Hopefully enough that he'll never need use of an enema ever again.

If Oakland takes him, I will have to turn in my membership card to Raider Nation.  I take a lot of crap for being a diehard Oakland fan, but having that dipshyt on our team would be the ultimate insult.  Rice is right though,  Al Davis will probably try to land him because Al Davis is an überbutthead.


Jess - turn in your card already and c'mon over to the Right Side... Redskins Baby!!! ;D ;D

The man's paid his debt to society.  Let 'im alone.

And whatever team is ignorant enough to sign him!



I am thankful that the Ravens re-signed Ray Ray - doesn't leave much money open for a QB, even though they kind of need one.
And with Big Nasty's luck - the Redskins just might pick him up... they need a QB :-[ :-[

Well, wherever Vick lands, I thjink it would be most appropriate to replace the "Rock and Roll Part 2" interplay music with "Who Let the Dawgs Out? (woof woof woof)"

;D ;D

http://www.who-let-the-dogs-out.net/DOGlogoHIRE_2__1__666x600.jpg

I am thankful that the Ravens re-signed Ray Ray - doesn't leave much money open for a QB, even though they kind of need one.
And with Big Nasty's luck - the Redskins just might pick him up... they need a QB :-[ :-[
No the Ravens have Joe Flacco they might need a back-up QB though or a 3rd string QB.

No, the Redskins have Jason Campbell at QB I mean he's alright. Again, the Redskins could use a good back-up QB.

No the Ravens have Joe Flacco they might need a back-up QB though or a 3rd string QB.

No, the Redskins have Jason Campbell at QB I mean he's alright. Again, the Redskins could use a good back-up QB.


So like I said - either team could pick him up.