This is part of a mass e-mail I received.  I thought about putting it in one of the Carter threads, but decided not to.  It is some examples of what happens when people in the media speak out again the current regime, I mean administration.


A few weeks ago, the very effective grassroots veterans organization VoteVets released a series of ads featuring retired military leaders speaking out about the broken policy in Iraq. One of them, General John Batiste, spoke forcefully about Bush's "failed strategy that is breaking our great Army."

The price of speaking out? General Batiste was fired from his job at CBS.

Now, there are other retired military members voicing support for the policy of George Bush, and none of them have been fired for it.

This is another in a long line of attempts to make speaking out costly to those who do it, from the Dixie Chicks being pulled from radio play lists to the savage attacks on Jack Murtha -- the smear of Matt Dowd after he spoke out against his old boss -- or the way in which retired military leaders who dared call for Don Rumsfeld's resignation were dismissed and even attacked as disloyal, painted as threats to civilian control of the armed forces. That is cheap and it is shameful.

At a time when the administration cannot let go of the myths and outright lies it broadcast in the rush to war in Iraq, those who know better must speak out.

Anyone with any amount of clout or influence that speaks out against the war is targeted.  When politicians and the military are telling you "Hey, this ain't working", you get rid of them fast before people have a chance to hear their views.  I believe even Bush knows the Iraq war is not what it was sold to the American public as.  However when those who are "supposed" to be backing you have serious doubt . . . you're screwed.

Anyone with any amount of clout or influence that speaks out against the war is targeted.  When politicians and the military are telling you "Hey, this ain't working", you get rid of them fast before people have a chance to hear their views.  I believe even Bush knows the Iraq war is not what it was sold to the American public as.  However when those who are "supposed" to be backing you have serious doubt . . . you're screwed.


Sad but true.  Guess they forgot that we are allowed (and used to be encouraged) to speak out against something we thought was wrong.  Wonder what would happen if someone with influence dared to compare him to Chavez or Castro, etc.  :o

Yes, I heard about CBS firing General Baptiste and I'm proud of that network.

It's time yellow-bellied draft-dodging liberal loonies like, um, General Baptiste learn that free speech doesn't mean you have he right to, uh, say what you believe! 

Er, don't you know there's a war on? General?
:-\\

Yes, I heard about CBS firing General Baptiste and I'm proud of that network.

It's time yellow-bellied draft-dodging liberal loonies like, um, General Baptiste learn that free speech doesn't mean you have he right to, uh, say what you believe! 

Er, don't you know there's a war on? General?
:-\\


Define war.  I believe this comes under the definition of unorganized conflict.

Define war.  I believe this comes under the definition of unorganized conflict.
i like to say vietnam was a war the administration liked to call a police action, and iraq is a police action the administration is intent on calling a war.

i like to say vietnam was a war the administration liked to call a police action, and iraq is a police action the administration is intent on calling a war.


Sad but true.

My dad was in Korea (what was referred to as a "police action"), he said it looked and sounded like a war to him.

Well, the Founding Fathers...

I mean, we're all for 'em when it comes to keeping prayer in the schools, women in the kitchen, and the dusky folks down on the farm...

but the Founding Fathers would've demanded Congress declare war before we sent the army abroad, so, uh...

Screw them!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/10/thefinger.gif


(Declare war, as opposed to, "Sure, Mr. President, here's a rubber stamp to play shoot 'em up anywhere on the face of the globe, now let's all adjourn to the patio for a drink!")

My dad was in Korea (what was referred to as a "police action"), he said it looked and sounded like a war to him.


If he's still alive, tell him that some dumbfark civilian (who wasn't even an American at the time!) says "thanks".  Anyone who served in that theater (hell, even the Chin-*cough*the fracking enemy) deserves a salute for their courage for fighting in that theater.

The closest I've come to military greatness was shaking hands with some guy whose insignia indicated that he was one of the Chosin Few. Ballsiest thing I've ever read about. Second-biggest surprise of my life was seeing a certain insignia.  Biggest surprise of my life was seeing his eyes bug out when I pointed to the insignia in question and said something like "Really?  Damn.  Thanks."

If you tell your Dad nothing else, tell him that it doesn't matter where/when he served, merely that despite the best efforts of my generation's history teachers, not all of us young'uns have forgotten what happened back then.  If he's not with you anymore -- ponder that last quote and what sort of hell might make the political board's self-appointed czar of cynicism say such a thing.

So Chávez shutting down RCTV is "an assault against the freedom of thought and expression that could not be accepted by democratic countries" according to the US Senate.

Firing someone for voicing his opinion on a war that more than half the country is criticising is just... not the same ???

did you ever hear about bush asking blair if he should target al-jazeera for a military strike? in kosovo clinton actually DID destroy the media outlet, calling it a legitimate military target. ::) and there a bunch of investigations of troops shooting reporters, sometimes it seems they're being violent to reporters to intimidate them and keep them from reporting the truth.

i dunno, i don't like it when the government messes with the press, whether it's bush, chavez, or putin doing it.

If he's still alive, tell him that some dumbfark civilian (who wasn't even an American at the time!) says "thanks".  Anyone who served in that theater (hell, even the Chin-*cough*the fracking enemy) deserves a salute for their courage for fighting in that theater.

The closest I've come to military greatness was shaking hands with some guy whose insignia indicated that he was one of the Chosin Few. Ballsiest thing I've ever read about. Second-biggest surprise of my life was seeing a certain insignia.  Biggest surprise of my life was seeing his eyes bug out when I pointed to the insignia in question and said something like "Really?  Damn.  Thanks."

If you tell your Dad nothing else, tell him that it doesn't matter where/when he served, merely that despite the best efforts of my generation's history teachers, not all of us young'uns have forgotten what happened back then.  If he's not with you anymore -- ponder that last quote and what sort of hell might make the political board's self-appointed czar of cynicism say such a thing.



My dad is still here.  He turns 77 next week.  I also have 2 uncles (still alive) who served in WWII

Sad but true.  Guess they forgot that we are allowed (and used to be encouraged) to speak out against something we thought was wrong.  Wonder what would happen if someone with influence dared to compare him to Chavez or Castro, etc.  :o
They need to watch "The American President"

Louis: And in this country it is not only permissible to question our leaders it's our responsibility! ;)
Sad but true.

My dad was in Korea (what was referred to as a "police action"), he said it looked and sounded like a war to him.
Mine too....

I am so angered by the repressing of the First Amendment I can't even put it into words. I believe that if this country keeps going the way it is going, we may have to have another revolution. If you look at history at all the reasons why the U.S. fought against England, it appears that history is repeating itself. We have another King George III who is just a tyrant as the first one. 




Cat

I actually have a hard time now, because I have a national top secret clearance, but dont agree with the current adminstration.  Caught between a rock and a hard place.  However, I wouldnt' do anything to mess it up because I believe in my country. 

However, there is definitely a reform that needs to happen or, like Cat said, we will be in another revolution or civil war.  It can very well happen again.  Instead of army against army, it will be person against person.  :-\\

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Problem is, today you would be called treasonous and executed if you tried something based on the words of the Declaration of Independence.  There is not much difference from firing someone for speaking their point, or banishing them or killing them like Hitler and Stalin did.  Same type of thing, we are just lucky that it hasn't come to killing yet.  If that happens, we should all be very scared.


I heard that military history is being taken out of college courses.  Why is that?  I think it is important to not only learn history about culture, laws, etc etc, but about wars and why they are fought.  It is not a bad thing to feel pride for soldiers who fought for their country.  American troops endured hardships that many citizens couldnt' even dream about.  The Korean War was an intensly fought war that deserves our respect as well as our short time in WWI, and our huge effort in WWII and Vietnam.  Soon we will lose the stories of military men and women from WWII and the Korean War.  There will be no more human stories to these conflicts.  Just like we no longer really think about the reasons the Revolutionary War was fought, we will forget about many other wars that shaped our nation. 



"Do You Hear The People Sing"  Les Miserables.

Do you hear the people sing, singing the song of angry men.  It is the music of a people who will not be slaves again.  When the beating of your heart, echoes the beating of the drums.  There is a life about to start when tomorrow comes.   

Will you join in our crusade, who will be strong and stand with me.  Beyond the barricade is there a world you long to see.  Then join in the fight that will give you the right to be free.

 

I actually have a hard time now, because I have a national top secret clearance, but dont agree with the current adminstration.  Caught between a rock and a hard place.  However, I wouldnt' do anything to mess it up because I believe in my country. 

However, there is definitely a reform that needs to happen or, like Cat said, we will be in another revolution or civil war.  It can very well happen again.  Instead of army against army, it will be person against person.  :-\\

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Problem is, today you would be called treasonous and executed if you tried something based on the words of the Declaration of Independence.  There is not much difference from firing someone for speaking their point, or banishing them or killing them like Hitler and Stalin did.  Same type of thing, we are just lucky that it hasn't come to killing yet.  If that happens, we should all be very scared.


I heard that military history is being taken out of college courses.  Why is that?  I think it is important to not only learn history about culture, laws, etc etc, but about wars and why they are fought.  It is not a bad thing to feel pride for soldiers who fought for their country.  American troops endured hardships that many citizens couldnt' even dream about.  The Korean War was an intensly fought war that deserves our respect as well as our short time in WWI, and our huge effort in WWII and Vietnam.  Soon we will lose the stories of military men and women from WWII and the Korean War.  There will be no more human stories to these conflicts.  Just like we no longer really think about the reasons the Revolutionary War was fought, we will forget about many other wars that shaped our nation. 



"Do You Hear The People Sing"  Les Miserables.

Do you hear the people sing, singing the song of angry men.  It is the music of a people who will not be slaves again.  When the beating of your heart, echoes the beating of the drums.  There is a life about to start when tomorrow comes.   

Will you join in our crusade, who will be strong and stand with me.  Beyond the barricade is there a world you long to see.  Then join in the fight that will give you the right to be free.





Karma to you, Sir.


As Benjamin Franklin said in the movie "1776" (not sure if he actually said it or not but it is a good quote): A rebellion is always legal in the first person, such as "our rebellion." It is only in the third person - "their rebellion" - that it becomes illegal.


Another quote from the movie (again, I don't know if he really said it): Treason is a charge invented by winners as an excuse for hanging the losers.


BTW, now I have that song from Les Mis in my head. That's ok, it is a GREAT song.




Cat

I actually have a hard time now, because I have a national top secret clearance, but dont agree with the current adminstration.  Caught between a rock and a hard place.  However, I wouldnt' do anything to mess it up because I believe in my country. 

However, there is definitely a reform that needs to happen or, like Cat said, we will be in another revolution or civil war.  It can very well happen again.  Instead of army against army, it will be person against person.   :-\\

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Problem is, today you would be called treasonous and executed if you tried something based on the words of the Declaration of Independence.  There is not much difference from firing someone for speaking their point, or banishing them or killing them like Hitler and Stalin did.  Same type of thing, we are just lucky that it hasn't come to killing yet.  If that happens, we should all be very scared.


I heard that military history is being taken out of college courses.  Why is that?  I think it is important to not only learn history about culture, laws, etc etc, but about wars and why they are fought.  It is not a bad thing to feel pride for soldiers who fought for their country.  American troops endured hardships that many citizens couldnt' even dream about.  The Korean War was an intensly fought war that deserves our respect as well as our short time in WWI, and our huge effort in WWII and Vietnam.  Soon we will lose the stories of military men and women from WWII and the Korean War.  There will be no more human stories to these conflicts.  Just like we no longer really think about the reasons the Revolutionary War was fought, we will forget about many other wars that shaped our nation.   



"Do You Hear The People Sing"  Les Miserables.

Do you hear the people sing, singing the song of angry men.  It is the music of a people who will not be slaves again.  When the beating of your heart, echoes the beating of the drums.  There is a life about to start when tomorrow comes.   

Will you join in our crusade, who will be strong and stand with me.  Beyond the barricade is there a world you long to see.  Then join in the fight that will give you the right to be free.

 



So, Jericho without the nuclear bomb where each area/state has its own governing body or several purported governments are in control.