Was there really anyone who questioned the urgency of the invasion before it started?  There were a few, but even alot of Democrats voted to go into Iraq.  We definitely didn't know then what we know now or see now.  We can sit here and have these debates while this war goes on and feel all great about ourselves because we are big badass America.  Has the general public really sacrificed a damn thing in this war besides some raised taxes.   

Did any of us know someone who has died or become forever broken due to this war?  If we have not lost a loved one in these type of circumstances, how can we tell how someone will react to the situation?  Its like ignoring the fact that soldiers are suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.     

I served in the United States Marine Corps.  I volunteered without my parents knowledge the first time I tried and the 2nd time they knew about it, but it didn't make it any easier.  But, regardless of them knowing that I had enlisted or not knowing, does this mean that they cant be sad if they lost me to a war?  There is hardly anything she probably could have done to change her sons mind to go.   

Yes, he was quite old enough to join and go off to die.  He made that choice.  But it doesn't make it any less hard if you sit down and realize that they didn't die for any reasons that were worth fighting for.  So maybe she realized this after her son was dead.  But, I guess if she didn't keep him out of the war before, then she doesn't have a right to speak up afterwards.   

Have you seen the movie Born on the Fourth of July?  Tom Cruises' character was all gung ho for the war in Vietnam.  KIll Those Commies.  But he gets shot and paralized.  He comes home to see how the government and America treats the forgotten heroes, and he becomes a war protestor.  Is there anything different there?  I guess he didn't have that right because he knew what he was getting into.  And heaven forbid someone changes their mind.  Like a born again Christian.  I guess they dont have that right to change the way they think either.

So, I guess now anyone who volunteers knows what they are getting into so their lives aren't worth a damn.  They are fodder to Americas growing insecurities.  It doesn't matter how many die cause they made the choice.  Whatever.  I would change my mind too if I realized that my child died for a country that could give too sh!ts of a f@ck about the troops.

A foul mouthed politician?  Well, I give her credit.  It takes alot of work to become just like our wonderful politicians. 

I served in the Marine Corps as well......

There is a major difference between a). being sad due to the loss of a loved one and b). standing on a soapbox like Ms Sheehan has done.

I have lost good friends in Beirut, Desert Storm, and now the current situation.  I am also very close friends with a current active duty Marine, and one of his duties is being the Marine to notify parents of a loss of a Marine in their family, not to mention the many funeral details he's participated in, in fact in one month last fall he performed 3 of these ceremonies.

Ya know what???  NOT ONE of the parents of the Marines killed in action have said one bad word about the situation in Iraq that he has had contact with.  NOT ONE...NO trips to Cuba...NO trips to Venezuela....NO media appearances..NO chaining themselves to the White House fence....NO camping out in Texas....NADA!!

This woman has disrepected herself AND her son by behaving in this manner.

Maybe in the Corps it's different, maybe in the Corps you know that when you sign your name on the dotted line what it means and the ramifications that go along with it.

Maybe the majority of servicemen and women in the Armed Forces didn't just sign up for the easy college money grab.....and maybe some did. 

Maybe all of my Marine and former Marine buddies from the past 25 years are all wrong when we don't speak badly of the situation over there.  Maybe we chose to live by a higher standard and accept the fact that right or wrong, we will go or did go and perform our duty without question....

SemperYoda...your quote..."Yes, he was quite old enough to join and go off to die.  He made that choice.  But it doesn't make it any less hard if you sit down and realize that they didn't die for any reasons that were worth fighting for.  So maybe she realized this after her son was dead.  But, I guess if she didn't keep him out of the war before, then she doesn't have a right to speak up afterwards."  end quote...

Since the boy was of legal age to make his own decisions, what his mother thinks doesn't really matter does it??  What matters is that it appears HE believed in what he was doing and that the cause was just.  Apparently HE thought the reasons were worth it, and since it is HE that Ms Sheehan has disrespected, she has trampled on his honor and courage....


Semper Fi......

I fully disagree with Ms. Sheehan but I also have to say that she certainly was "used" by her political "supporters".

Once her "supporters" saw that most of America was not buying her brand of soap, they kicked her to the curb.  Gives you an idea of just what her supporters think about the concept of loyalty.

While I do not like Sheehan I do have to say that she was not a hypocrite.  Something I cannot say for the "supporters" who threw her under the campaign bus.

Was there really anyone who questioned the urgency of the invasion before it started?  There were a few, but even alot of Democrats voted to go into Iraq.  We definitely didn't know then what we know now or see now.  We can sit here and have these debates while this war goes on and feel all great about ourselves because we are big badass America.  Has the general public really sacrificed a damn thing in this war besides some raised taxes.   

Did any of us know someone who has died or become forever broken due to this war?  If we have not lost a loved one in these type of circumstances, how can we tell how someone will react to the situation?  Its like ignoring the fact that soldiers are suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.     

I served in the United States Marine Corps.  I volunteered without my parents knowledge the first time I tried and the 2nd time they knew about it, but it didn't make it any easier.  But, regardless of them knowing that I had enlisted or not knowing, does this mean that they cant be sad if they lost me to a war?  There is hardly anything she probably could have done to change her sons mind to go.   

Yes, he was quite old enough to join and go off to die.  He made that choice.  But it doesn't make it any less hard if you sit down and realize that they didn't die for any reasons that were worth fighting for.  So maybe she realized this after her son was dead.  But, I guess if she didn't keep him out of the war before, then she doesn't have a right to speak up afterwards.   

Have you seen the movie Born on the Fourth of July?  Tom Cruises' character was all gung ho for the war in Vietnam.  KIll Those Commies.  But he gets shot and paralized.  He comes home to see how the government and America treats the forgotten heroes, and he becomes a war protestor.  Is there anything different there?  I guess he didn't have that right because he knew what he was getting into.  And heaven forbid someone changes their mind.  Like a born again Christian.  I guess they dont have that right to change the way they think either.

So, I guess now anyone who volunteers knows what they are getting into so their lives aren't worth a damn.  They are fodder to Americas growing insecurities.  It doesn't matter how many die cause they made the choice.  Whatever.  I would change my mind too if I realized that my child died for a country that could give too sh!ts of a f@ck about the troops.

A foul mouthed politician?  Well, I give her credit.  It takes alot of work to become just like our wonderful politicians. 


Kharmaditto. 

His mother raises holy hell about her sons VOLUNTEERING, REENLISTING, and placing himself into harms way??  And some people in America buy into her BS???

Please..spare me the crap thats smeared all over this womans story......
well, i think the idea was that he enlisted with the assumption that he was going to iraq to fight al qaeda, defend america and avenge 911. if he'd have known he was actually going there to establish a foothold in a strategic oil region and advance republican partisan political interests in what the party plainly thought was going to be a quick and popular war that would cement their position as a "permanent majority," he might have felt differently. i dunno, he may still have thought those causes worth dying for, but i doubt it. it's tough to say someone "volunteers" for a war when they're lied to about why the war's being fought.

ms. sheehan definitely seemed to have a political ax to grind outside of the issue at hand, and i was never able to parse out whether she did the anti-war cause as much good as she did it harm by allowing pro-war people to smear all of us with an extremist brush. for activists i much prefer the 911 widows for truth.

but i think bush exploits america's war dead every time he gives a memorial day speech or uses 911 to force his morally and constitutionally bankrupt policies on us. he has no right to praise america when his policies are antithetical to her founding principles, and he has no right to praise soldiers who died upholding these same principles when he would plainly dismantle and destroy them, and largely has.

http://www.peacewithrealism.org/headline/sheehan.htm

I can't say what I really want to.  This article should do the trick.
i wasn't able to read this whole article, but what i DID see actually made me like cindy sheehan more. i mean, "peace with realism" -- yes, in terms of government policy it's necessary for the democrats to compromise and regulate their speech in order to bring the war to an end. but i also have noticed that the rhetoric in the public square just doesn’t reflect my personal sense of outrage that so many lives have been lost and the country’s been damaged so profoundly for a needless and politically self-serving war for the republicans. why is it the right gets to indulge their venom and anger but the left has to continuously play nice? i’m glad this language is out there, it gives voice to the way i truly feel.

Was there really anyone who questioned the urgency of the invasion before it started?  There were a few, but even alot of Democrats voted to go into Iraq.  We definitely didn't know then what we know now or see now.  We can sit here and have these debates while this war goes on and feel all great about ourselves because we are big badass America.  Has the general public really sacrificed a damn thing in this war besides some raised taxes.   

Did any of us know someone who has died or become forever broken due to this war?  If we have not lost a loved one in these type of circumstances, how can we tell how someone will react to the situation?  Its like ignoring the fact that soldiers are suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.     

I served in the United States Marine Corps.  I volunteered without my parents knowledge the first time I tried and the 2nd time they knew about it, but it didn't make it any easier.  But, regardless of them knowing that I had enlisted or not knowing, does this mean that they cant be sad if they lost me to a war?  There is hardly anything she probably could have done to change her sons mind to go.   

Yes, he was quite old enough to join and go off to die.  He made that choice.  But it doesn't make it any less hard if you sit down and realize that they didn't die for any reasons that were worth fighting for.  So maybe she realized this after her son was dead.  But, I guess if she didn't keep him out of the war before, then she doesn't have a right to speak up afterwards.   

Have you seen the movie Born on the Fourth of July?  Tom Cruises' character was all gung ho for the war in Vietnam.  KIll Those Commies.  But he gets shot and paralized.  He comes home to see how the government and America treats the forgotten heroes, and he becomes a war protestor.  Is there anything different there?  I guess he didn't have that right because he knew what he was getting into.  And heaven forbid someone changes their mind.  Like a born again Christian.  I guess they dont have that right to change the way they think either.

So, I guess now anyone who volunteers knows what they are getting into so their lives aren't worth a damn.  They are fodder to Americas growing insecurities.  It doesn't matter how many die cause they made the choice.  Whatever.  I would change my mind too if I realized that my child died for a country that could give too sh!ts of a f@ck about the troops.

A foul mouthed politician?  Well, I give her credit.  It takes alot of work to become just like our wonderful politicians. 


I love you so much!


well, i think the idea was that he enlisted with the assumption that he was going to iraq to fight al qaeda, defend america and avenge 911. if he'd have known he was actually going there to establish a foothold in a strategic oil region and advance republican partisan political interests in what the party plainly thought was going to be a quick and popular war that would cement their position as a "permanent majority," he might have felt differently. i dunno, he may still have thought those causes worth dying for, but i doubt it. it's tough to say someone "volunteers" for a war when they're lied to about why the war's being fought.

ms. sheehan definitely seemed to have a political ax to grind outside of the issue at hand, and i was never able to parse out whether she did the anti-war cause as much good as she did it harm by allowing pro-war people to smear all of us with an extremist brush. for activists i much prefer the 911 widows for truth.

but i think bush exploits america's war dead every time he gives a memorial day speech or uses 911 to force his morally and constitutionally bankrupt policies on us. he has no right to praise america when his policies are antithetical to her founding principles, and he has no right to praise soldiers who died upholding these same principles when he would plainly dismantle and destroy them, and largely has.


And I love you too!

You become a soldier with the knowledge that in a time of war you may be killed.  I cannot see the connection between driving to work and being a soldier during wartime.  Cindy Sheehan went beyond protesting an unjust war.  All I saw was a self-serving wannabe politician with a foul mouth. 


The highest cause of death for my age group is car accidents.  Driving a car is one of the most dangerous things a person can do, yet millions of people do it every day.  Your average American is far more likely to die in a car accident than your average U.S. soldier is likely to die in Iraq.  I realize that these soldiers know what they've gotten themselves into, just as I know what I'm getting myself into every time I get behind the wheel.  That doesn't mean it's hunky dorey if one of us dies.

The highest cause of death for my age group is car accidents.  Driving a car is one of the most dangerous things a person can do, yet millions of people do it every day.  Your average American is far more likely to die in a car accident than your average U.S. soldier is likely to die in Iraq.  I realize that these soldiers know what they've gotten themselves into, just as I know what I'm getting myself into every time I get behind the wheel.  That doesn't mean it's hunky dorey if one of us dies.


You're comparing two totally different things.

You're comparing two totally different things.


I know that they're different.  I was just trying to think of an example.  I stand by my opinion that the fact that he volunteered to go to war doesn't make it ok that he died, and it doesn't mean that his mother doesn't have a right to protest.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060213/060213_cheney_vsml_2p.widec.jpg

All I saw was a self-serving wannabe politician with a foul mouth.  


Ms. Sheehan was no saint.  Who the hell is?
But for those of you who now wish to villify her and nit-pick over her every motive and action, might I suggest you get a little perspective on the REAL VILLAINS?

If Casey Sheehan realized the war in (occupation of) Iraq and the "War on Terror" are both feints to further the interests of big business and the fascist state, perhaps he would have joined the anti-war protesters.  Those of you suggesting he was a fool for signing up would then call him a traitor for protesting.  At least he would still be alive instead of dying in vain. 

Young men and women of America, if you don't want to do your patriotic duty, just shut up and let the military-industrial complex rock 'n' roll!
::)

I mean come on, even Dennis Miller refused to ridicule Sheehan when O'Reilly provoked him.  That's saying a lot!

file:///C:/Documents%2520and%2520Settings/Owner/My%2520Documents/My%2520Pictures/image064.jpg


This is my Vets for Peace group (Miami Chapter 32) with Cindy Sheehan last October.
I'm the guy on the left with the Straw Cowboy hat and the black shirt.

file:///C:/Documents%2520and%2520Settings/Owner/My%2520Documents/My%2520Pictures/image064.jpg


This is my Vets for Peace group (Miami Chapter 32) with Cindy Sheehan last October.
I'm the guy on the left with the Straw Cowboy hat and the black shirt.

I guess I don't know how to insert an image.

Can anyone help me on this?

peace...Lee

I guess I don't know how to insert an image.

Can anyone help me on this?

peace...Lee


If you right click on the Cheney image, then select 'view image', you should see this address come up in the url .....  (where the previous poster got the image from .... )

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060213/060213_cheney_vsml_2p.widec.jpg

To make that an image, drag across that whole line, right click, copy, then when making a 'reply', right click, paste (the url/ http line reappears, then  click on 'insert image' ( above winking face, and below I ... you should now see image tags ... at the beginning, and at the end. Now when you click on 'preview' you should see the pic.

Do I look familiar?  Nice to see you again Lee (tokjct).
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060213/060213_cheney_vsml_2p.widec.jpg






Oh, and who was the %^&!#*^ $@(!

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060213/060213_cheney_vsml_2p.widec.jpg
... who reckons I have a 'foul mouth' >:( >:( >:( :D
http://www.inthe00s.com/avatars_custom/avatar_9529.png

:)

P.S. I inserted spaces that you shouldn't , so that you'd see etc;