http://news.yahoo.com/s/uc/20070518/cm_uc_crpbux/op_332799

This was written by Pat Buchanon?  Wow. 

Its a great article.  I do agree with Ron Paul in what he said in the GOP debate.  He never appraised the 9/11 attacks, he is just asking America to look into the truths of why they hate us so much.  It is pride and blind patriotism that keeps Americans from realizing that what we do in the world is really not in the best interests of all people.  Pat knows why they want him out of the debate, not because he is wrong, but because he has a great chance of hurting their chances of becomming President.  I think most candidates on both sides will continue the path of taking this country down a dark path if they are elected.  Who in their right mind would want to take over such a mess anyway.   



 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/uc/20070518/cm_uc_crpbux/op_332799

This was written by Pat Buchanon?  Wow. 

Its a great article.  I do agree with Ron Paul in what he said in the GOP debate.  He never appraised the 9/11 attacks, he is just asking America to look into the truths of why they hate us so much.  It is pride and blind patriotism that keeps Americans from realizing that what we do in the world is really not in the best interests of all people.  Pat knows why they want him out of the debate, not because he is wrong, but because he has a great chance of hurting their chances of becomming President.  I think most candidates on both sides will continue the path of taking this country down a dark path if they are elected.  Who in their right mind would want to take over such a mess anyway.


Well, It's important to remember that those individuals that make up about 30 of the states, in these.. United States are for the most part retarded.

Think about it, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, My own Missouri, the vast majority of the people living there are idiots, so it never surprises me that an Intelligent man like Rudy Giuliani would appeal to the common denominator that way.

The majority of people in this country couldn't even find Afghanistan on a map, never mind understand the fact that at one point, we used the, my enemy's enemy is my friend trick with these animals and supported them. US foreign policy for the past 20+ years has essentially been a case of "Go in, nobody else is gonna." and sometimes it's warranted (Balkans) and sometimes it's not (Iraq), but regardless, the policy remains the same, we're the best so we've got to fix the mess, whether it needs fixing or not.

Ron Paul won't be elected because he's far smarter than the residents of those 30 or so states, who generally tend to vote for the Christian Coalition candidate. Giuliani understands perfectly the reasons that the U.S was attacked, but by blowing up his chest and challenging those who cast even the smallest stone at the armor clad fortress that is 9/11 he might cause some of the Christian bigots to forget that he's on his third marriage (same number as Gingrich incidentally) and that's he's not family values (yet Newt is??).

Although I'm deviating slightly, this is just another example of why the United States needs to split in to two countries. One under God with bigotry and creationism for all, and one under the people, with Liberty, Justice and reason for all.

Although I'm deviating slightly, this is just another example of why the United States needs to split in to two countries. One under God with bigotry and creationism for all, and one under the people, with Liberty, Justice and reason for all.



I think if America splits, it will be more than two countries.  I also think that it is something that really isn't that far away.  Scary to think about, but impossible to brush aside.  It can happen again. 

I think if America splits, it will be more than two countries.  I also think that it is something that really isn't that far away.  Scary to think about, but impossible to brush aside.  It can happen again. 


I've still never understood why, in the civil war, the North fought to keep the country together.
That was a dumb move, see where it's got us.  ;D

If it was me I'd have just said "Huh, you wanna leave the union do you? UmmHmm, well, good luck, by the way, eventually, there'll be more black guys than white guys, enjoy that when it comes."  ;D

I wasn't sure which thread to post this (because it can be said in many of them) but I figured this one is as good as any.


It really PISSES me off when someone questions the leadership (or lack of) in this country and they are called "unpatriotic" when anyone with half a brain who has read the Constitution KNOWS that we have the right to "to petition the government for a redress of grievances." I know the GOP (and many Dems as well) want people to be sheep, to follow blindly and not question anything. IMO, that is part of the reason why they try to limit education to the masses. What a dangerous place this will be if the United States was full of educated people. People will actually see what the people in Washington are doing and their positions will be threatened. I think we need more people asking questions. We need more people stating their opinions instead of just going with the status quo.

As for the debate, I mentioned this in another thread that I saw Ron Paul on CNN after the debate. To my surprised, I agreed with him (and he is a Republican  :o :o :o ).  I think it is despicable that because he questions policy and motive, they want to silence him (and I have seen it all too well from both sides of the aisle).

This country is mess (the understatement of the millennium). We need someone who is willing to make major changes instead of just more of the same. We need someone who is willing to fight for the Constitution that held this country together for over 200 years instead of weakening it and destroying it-all in the name of security.  ::)  As Benjamin Franklin said, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." We need someone who is willing to try to clean up the corruption in Washington as well as in big business. And I will cast my vote for anyone (whether they have "D", "R", "I", or some other letter next to their name) who is willing to that.



Cat

I wasn't sure which thread to post this (because it can be said in many of them) but I figured this one is as good as any.


It really PISSES me off when someone questions the leadership (or lack of) in this country and they are called "unpatriotic" when anyone with half a brain who has read the Constitution KNOWS that we have the right to "to petition the government for a redress of grievances." I know the GOP (and many Dems as well) want people to be sheep, to follow blindly and not question anything. IMO, that is part of the reason why they try to limit education to the masses. What a dangerous place this will be if the United States was full of educated people. People will actually see what the people in Washington are doing and their positions will be threatened. I think we need more people asking questions. We need more people stating their opinions instead of just going with the status quo.

As for the debate, I mentioned this in another thread that I saw Ron Paul on CNN after the debate. To my surprised, I agreed with him (and he is a Republican  :o :o :o ).  I think it is despicable that because he questions policy and motive, they want to silence him (and I have seen it all too well from both sides of the aisle).

This country is mess (the understatement of the millennium). We need someone who is willing to make major changes instead of just more of the same. We need someone who is willing to fight for the Constitution that held this country together for over 200 years instead of weakening it and destroying it-all in the name of security.  ::)  As Benjamin Franklin said, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." We need someone who is willing to try to clean up the corruption in Washington as well as in big business. And I will cast my vote for anyone (whether they have "D", "R", "I", or some other letter next to their name) who is willing to that.



Cat


http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/10/ylsuper.gif

I wasn't sure which thread to post this (because it can be said in many of them) but I figured this one is as good as any.


It really PISSES me off when someone questions the leadership (or lack of) in this country and they are called "unpatriotic" when anyone with half a brain who has read the Constitution KNOWS that we have the right to "to petition the government for a redress of grievances." I know the GOP (and many Dems as well) want people to be sheep, to follow blindly and not question anything. IMO, that is part of the reason why they try to limit education to the masses. What a dangerous place this will be if the United States was full of educated people. People will actually see what the people in Washington are doing and their positions will be threatened. I think we need more people asking questions. We need more people stating their opinions instead of just going with the status quo.

As for the debate, I mentioned this in another thread that I saw Ron Paul on CNN after the debate. To my surprised, I agreed with him (and he is a Republican  :o :o :o ).  I think it is despicable that because he questions policy and motive, they want to silence him (and I have seen it all too well from both sides of the aisle).

This country is mess (the understatement of the millennium). We need someone who is willing to make major changes instead of just more of the same. We need someone who is willing to fight for the Constitution that held this country together for over 200 years instead of weakening it and destroying it-all in the name of security.  ::)  As Benjamin Franklin said, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." We need someone who is willing to try to clean up the corruption in Washington as well as in big business. And I will cast my vote for anyone (whether they have "D", "R", "I", or some other letter next to their name) who is willing to that.



Cat


Ron Paul seems like an okay guy....I read up on him and what he stands for....and out of all of the candidates, he is most likely who I would vote for...it just sucks that he probably won't stand a chance. :-\\

I think if America splits, it will be more than two countries.  I also think that it is something that really isn't that far away.  Scary to think about, but impossible to brush aside.  It can happen again. 



Five countries, Northeast Coast, Southeast Coast, West Coast, North Central, South. 


I've still never understood why, in the civil war, the North fought to keep the country together.
That was a dumb move, see where it's got us.  ;D

If it was me I'd have just said "Huh, you wanna leave the union do you? UmmHmm, well, good luck, by the way, eventually, there'll be more black guys than white guys, enjoy that when it comes."  ;D



I have decided it is a good idea to revisit the question.  If they wanna fly the Confederate Flag and wax philosophic on the romance of the antebellum south and all that crap, well they are welcome to it. 

If you want to ask "why do they hate us?," then ask by all means, but don't bellyache if the answer is something you don't want to hear!

When the neo-cons asked "why do they hate us?" it was a rhetorical question.  The answer of course is, "they hate us for our freedom."
::)

People forget about the science in political science.  It's not supposed to be political propaganda or political sloganeering.  A cold, logical politically scientific inquiry into why they hate us will yield answers liberals and old school conservatives--such as Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul--can handle, but not neo-cons or fascists.  Mayor Giuliani, like the Bushies, employs a central tenet of fascist rhetoric: Rage over reason.  Get the folks hopped up on self-righteous indignation, us-versus-them paranoia, and belligerent nationalism.  The neo-cons have pushed this agenda since 9/11.

A debate is supposed to be about ideas.  The fascists, such as Giuliani and his media pal, Sean Hannity, are about limiting the scope of acceptable ideas.  Prior to 9/11 an unacceptable idea to put forward in a political debate was, for example, "we should bring back racial segregation."  Who wouldn't applaud the opponent for demanding a retraction and explanation for saying so?  The neo-cons would like to make any criticism of their world view and their political agenda parallel to criticism of the Civil Rights movement--so untenable it can get a person blackballed.  That's what Giuliani and Hannity are up to.

It would be fine with me for Mr. Giuliani to disagree with Dr. Paul's statements and rebut them.  That's what debate is about.  However, for RG to say that RP has no right to his point of view on American foreign policy and demand RP retract his statements is scary and sick.  Isn't the most basic element of the First Amendment the right to criticize one's own government?  

If I was a First Amendment absolutist, I would have to say a white supremicist should be accorded the same respect I believe Dr. Paul deserved in the debate.  The difference is in the known quantity of damage resulting from the ideas of white supremicists.  There are Americans alive today who saw their loved ones hanged from tree limbs for the color of their skin.  As one Paris (the rapper, not the bimbo) said, "Iraq never called me n*gg*r."  Thus, those who disdain Civil Rights still have the right to state their beliefs, but they have lost in the marketplace of ideas.

The fascists are not confident their ideas will win in the marketplace, so they egg on aggression in the bigoted sheeple they call their constituencies.  Don't doubt, shout! Nazi Germany started in a similar fashion.  To bring up the Civil Rights movement again, when the segregationists were losing the support of the people in the early 1960s, boy did they get mean and crazy!  It was not safe to speak ill of segregation in Alabama in 1963.  In mixed company, it is not safe to criticize American foreign policy today.  Rage over reason.  You'll get the fascist sheeple in your face yelling, "don't you love your country!" and "are you with the terrorists?"  In some places you might get beaten to a pulp!

Perhaps the neo-cons/fascists are singing their swan song, but that depends on the commitment of the opposition.  Like the segregationists in the '60s, the fascists are not going down without a hell of a fight!  If the reasonable folks don't take a stand, it's a fight they might win!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/11/brave.gif

I'm no fan of Pat Buchanan.  I agree with him on some foreign policy issues, but I can never lose sight his racial bigotry and reactionary cultural intolerance.

Ron Paul is a guy I respect for taking a principled stand.  However, I find much of the Libertarian platform unrealistic and unworkable in 21st century America. 


Five countries, Northeast Coast, West Coast, North Central, South.
If I remember, the prediction is two countries: America and Jesusland!
:D
I have decided it is a good idea to revisit the question.  If they wanna fly the Confederate Flag and wax philosophic on the romance of the antebellum south and all that crap, well they are welcome to it. 

Perhaps all angry hip-hop guys should adopt the Stars and Bars as their emblem.  Steal the rednecks' baby!


I've still never understood why, in the civil war, the North fought to keep the country together.
That was a dumb move, see where it's got us.  ;D

If it was me I'd have just said "Huh, you wanna leave the union do you? UmmHmm, well, good luck, by the way, eventually, there'll be more black guys than white guys, enjoy that when it comes."  ;D


Well, the ratio of black to white is less important than wealth and power and who has it and who doesn't!  Look at South Africa for chrissakes!

A friend of mine likes to say, "we should have dumped the South when we had the chance!"  Slavery in the western hemisphere was a dying institution.  Even Brazil outlawed it in 1898.  If the South got its way in 1865, the Confederate States would today be another Latin American banana republic. 

There's a red state/blue state map that shows what states receive more federal subsidies.  You guessed it.  The blue states pay and the red states play.  Now, one can argue the pros and cons of various subsidies, but it isn't I bitching about "git the faydral gummint off our backs!"
::)
If I could locate that map again I would link to it.

If I remember, the prediction is two countries: America and Jesusland!
:D



Actually it is the United States of Canada and Jesusland.

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:SSKabnxt7S5BDM:http://homepage.univie.ac.at/horst.prillinger/blog/p3/jesusland.jpg


There are several maps. Check this out.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=jesusland&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2



Cat

It would be fine with me for Mr. Giuliani to disagree with Dr. Paul's statements and rebut them.  That's what debate is about.  However, for RG to say that RP has no right to his point of view on American foreign policy and demand RP retract his statements is scary and sick.  Isn't the most basic element of the First Amendment the right to criticize one's own government?  





This type of thinking scares me as well.  

Ron Paul was on the season finale of the Bill Mauer show on HBO, along with Ben Affleck and P.J. O'Rourke.  It was probably one of the best shows they have had all season in my opinion.  They also had as a guest speaker on satellite Michael Moore, talking about his new film sicko.  P.J. is a conservative and definitely has a good head on his shoulders.  Ben Affleck is quite surpisingly pretty knowledgeable.  It was quite amazing listening to Ron Paul talk in a civil manner what he believes about American foreign policy.  The crowd is usually on the liberal side, but they actually cheered Mr. Paul.  He got pretty good respect from Bill, Ben and P.J. as well.  Even if his views wont work in 21st century America, we definite need more people who will actually stand up to the neocons.  I just hope America sees it as well.  

On a side note, Michael Moore said that this is the first time that one of his films hasn't got an overwhelming backlash from the right wing.  He also wants Al Gore to run for President.   :)


A friend of mine likes to say, "we should have dumped the South when we had the chance!"  Slavery in the western hemisphere was a dying institution.  Even Brazil outlawed it in 1898.  If the South got its way in 1865, the Confederate States would today be another Latin American banana republic. 

There's a red state/blue state map that shows what states receive more federal subsidies.  You guessed it.  The blue states pay and the red states play.  Now, one can argue the pros and cons of various subsidies, but it isn't I bitching about "git the faydral gummint off our backs!"

;D

I have always thought that the Confederate States would have been no better than a 3rd World country with your very rich and your very poor.  They would have never had an economy good enough to sustain the people.

Actually it is the United States of Canada and Jesusland.

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:SSKabnxt7S5BDM:http://homepage.univie.ac.at/horst.prillinger/blog/p3/jesusland.jpg


There are several maps. Check this out.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=jesusland&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2



Cat


Or is it Amerada? Arf arf arf!

On that ex-United $tates map, how are they supposing the Lakota and the Iraquois are gonna get their stuff back?

http://www.ysmarko.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/jesusland.jpg

I have always thought that the Confederate States would have been no better than a 3rd World country with your very rich and your very poor.  They would have never had an economy good enough to sustain the people.



I'm afraid--I mean really afraid--the U.S. is becoming a Third World country right now because we let clowns run out country who want a dictatorship not a democratic republic.  I can't think of many dictatorships with a bona-fide "middle class." 

A friend of mine likes to say, "we should have dumped the South when we had the chance!"  Slavery in the western hemisphere was a dying institution.  Even Brazil outlawed it in 1898.  If the South got its way in 1865, the Confederate States would today be another Latin American banana republic.   



  At the very least, if we had let the eleven southern states have their way, we would not, today, be continually having the Union flag waved in our faces by people who still fly the Confederate battle flag over their own statheouses but pretend to be more *ahem*patriotic*ahem* than we are...

  Uh, oh...okay...

  I like Ron Paul.  Finally, there's someone who speaks without agenda with every other candidate speaking carefully so as to not offend the public.  WTF.?!

  Also Ron Paul's statements about foreign policy causing 9/11 is backed up the 9/11 commission report.....

  I don't blame Hannity for tactics made famous by NBC, CBS, & ABC.  Consider how specific candidates are treated on these networks, consider how specific issues are discussed.  This has been going on for a long time...

  I think Paul brings up some great ideas, but clearly the time has passed for where blame should be laid.  It is time for solutions.  I think this is Rudy and Sean's issue.  They may be overly patriotic here, but I think their position is, at this point, we should be focused on the task at hand.  We can deal with the other stuff later.  This does not mean Rudy and Sean would endorse Paul's idea on the issue when the task is completed, but let us focus on the task first groove ;) on...