"The have gone to a better place."

How many times have you heard this phrase mentioned when someone dies. I don't know about
anyone else but this phrase bugs me. It's the religious right's feeble attempt to, not only make
someone feel better, but to justify the death of a loved one. They try to make us think that we
are all just part of some master plan.

Not once, since the dawn of time, has someone come back and told us there is a better, or worse, place
than the one we're in now. Being a skeptic I want proof; I want to hear for myself of paradise, of virgins.
I want someone who's been there to tell me what it's like on the other side; to tell me it's better. Not some
hack living in world speculating of a better place and how beautiful it is while the whole time they have their
hand in my wallet.

While I'm ranting: don't tell me "They died before their time," what? Is there a list? Is there a set date we are
supposed to die on? The only way to die before your time is if you have a set time to die and you die before then.
We die when we die, not too soon; not too late, in this case it's over when it's over.

"The have gone to a better place."

How many times have you heard this phrase mentioned when someone dies. I don't know about
anyone else but this phrase bugs me. It's the religious right's feeble attempt to, not only make
someone feel better, but to justify the death of a loved one. They try to make us think that we
are all just part of some master plan.

Not once, since the dawn of time, has someone come back and told us there is a better, or worse, place
than the one we're in now. Being a skeptic I want proof; I want to hear for myself of paradise, of virgins.
I want someone who's been there to tell me what it's like on the other side; to tell me it's better. Not some
hack living in world speculating of a better place and how beautiful it is while the whole time they have their
hand in my wallet.

While I'm ranting: don't tell me "They died before their time," what? Is there a list? Is there a set date we are
supposed to die on? The only way to die before your time is if you have a set time to die and you die before then.
We die when we die, not too soon; not too late, in this case it's over when it's over.
I actually prefer simply "died" to even "passed on" or "Passed away",but I can respect other people's beliefs.

"The have gone to a better place."

How many times have you heard this phrase mentioned when someone dies. I don't know about
anyone else but this phrase bugs me. It's the religious right's feeble attempt to, not only make
someone feel better, but to justify the death of a loved one. They try to make us think that we
are all just part of some master plan.

Not once, since the dawn of time, has someone come back and told us there is a better, or worse, place
than the one we're in now. Being a skeptic I want proof; I want to hear for myself of paradise, of virgins.
I want someone who's been there to tell me what it's like on the other side; to tell me it's better. Not some
hack living in world speculating of a better place and how beautiful it is while the whole time they have their
hand in my wallet.

While I'm ranting: don't tell me "They died before their time," what? Is there a list? Is there a set date we are
supposed to die on? The only way to die before your time is if you have a set time to die and you die before then.
We die when we die, not too soon; not too late, in this case it's over when it's over.


MmmHmm, it's all Christian bulls**t, once again, the Christians forcing their vile rhetoric on to others.

"The have gone to a better place."

How many times have you heard this phrase mentioned when someone dies. I don't know about
anyone else but this phrase bugs me. It's the religious right's feeble attempt to, not only make
someone feel better, but to justify the death of a loved one. They try to make us think that we
are all just part of some master plan.

Not once, since the dawn of time, has someone come back and told us there is a better, or worse, place
than the one we're in now. Being a skeptic I want proof; I want to hear for myself of paradise, of virgins.
I want someone who's been there to tell me what it's like on the other side; to tell me it's better. Not some
hack living in world speculating of a better place and how beautiful it is while the whole time they have their
hand in my wallet.

While I'm ranting: don't tell me "They died before their time," what? Is there a list? Is there a set date we are
supposed to die on? The only way to die before your time is if you have a set time to die and you die before then.
We die when we die, not too soon; not too late, in this case it's over when it's over.



Entropy, chaos, luck.  When will you die and how will you die.  Does the Grim Reaper determine this for you.  Is it all a silly game of God's on how you will die?  You can die when a steal beam breaks off a work zone on a freeway and decapitates you.  You can die of an unknown infection.  You can die from a stray bullet.  You can die of natural causes.  Of course we all die and there is no predetermined way that you will die.  Life can be the sh!ts, and death can be even more unbearable.  I think people need comfort in thinking their pain will be over when they die and will finally find peace in a place that they picture in their head.  I for one have never needed to believe in a special place to go when I die.   It is nice to think that you will see your loved ones again.  It helps get over the pain of loss in the real world.  Although, I dont think its just the religious right that believe in this sort of thing, I think they are a bit upfront in their beliefs.  It all comes back to some people having faith and others not having/not needing that faith.  I know I will be sad when people in my family die, but I also understand that its life.  I am here, I live the best life I can, help people when I can, flip the birdie at others who deserve it, and thats all I can really do.  If lightning decides to strike me and I die, well, so be it.  If my plane decides to crash, well, what a ride that would be on the way down.    

I've only been dead for just one day,
But above my head flowers you lay,
Your muffled words, they make no sense,
My muscles are dead, no longer tense,
So go away and leave my death plot,
Leave me here, just..let..me..rot.


That's what you do when you die, you rot, your skin, organs, nerves etc rot away and nourish the soil, if you're exceptionally lucky your bones could conceivably be fossilized depending on where you die or how you're buried, but more likely than not eventually even those will simply fade away.

I prefer the term "living-impared".  It sounds P.C. and I really don't like to say "kicked the bucket", "pushing up daisy", "bought the farm"  ya know,crap like that. :P

MmmHmm, it's all Christian bulls**t, once again, the Christians forcing their vile rhetoric on to others.

Thank you! 
We now have a zillion sheeple out there who think they're going to stand on a clud strumming a golden harp.  Only in Gary Larson cartoons, my friend.
When you die, there's nothing else.  I think that scares the living daylights out of people.  It shouldn't.  If you cease to exist as an entity ipso facto you'll never know it.

A better place?

"What if this is as good as it gets?"

--Jack Nicholson.

^ My opinion on these matters is not final and subject to change!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/11/angel5.gif


I prefer the term "living-impared".  It sounds P.C. and I really don't like to say "kicked the bucket", "pushing up daisy", "bought the farm"  ya know,crap like that. :P

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/14/sign10.gif
"Living-impaired"
I'll have to remember that one.
I prefer "won't be down for breakfast," but that's only applicable just after somebody dies.  "Jerry Falwell won't be down for breakfast."
"Bought the farm" was a favorite of my old man, who has not "bought the farm," but if he keeps sitting in that La-Z-Boy and watching FOX News, he will soon enough.
So I adopted "bought the farm," then I found myself using it for inanimate objects, for example, "My old CD player finally bought the farm."  Nah, doesn't sound right.

"Shuffled off this mortal coil," and "run down the curtain and joined the silent invisibles" are two colorful ones I like, both of which I stole Monty Python's "Dead Parrot" sketch!

"You're a daisy if you do."....Doc Holiday - Tombstone

I've been told I was cold and callous for saying things of this nature. I believe dead is dead, is worm food acceptable?
which brings me to my next point. Cemeteries are the biggest waste of real estate on the planet and coffin salesmen
are the biggest con artist. The only time they interact with a consumer is when the consumer is distraught and vulnerable.
They'll try to sell the most expensive model for the comfort of the loved one. Does a dead guy really need comfort? these
slugs prey on people at their weakest moments.

"You're a daisy if you do."....Doc Holiday - Tombstone

I've been told I was cold and callous for saying things of this nature. I believe dead is dead, is worm food acceptable?
which brings me to my next point. Cemeteries are the biggest waste of real estate on the planet and coffin salesmen
are the biggest con artist. The only time they interact with a consumer is when the consumer is distraught and vulnerable.
They'll try to sell the most expensive model for the comfort of the loved one. Does a dead guy really need comfort? these
slugs prey on people at their weakest moments.



No, you're not being cold and callous.  Cemeteries are for the living. 

My living will:

1. Pull the plug.
2. No embalming. Let my corpse bake in the sun for three days and then lay it on a slab for my funeral. That way only my true loved ones will show up and the service will be mercifully brief.
3. After funeral service, render my remains for tallow and make bars of soap out of it.  That way I'll be more useful dead than I was alive!
:D

My parents want me to be buried in the "family plot".  I told them I want to be burnt to a crisp and my ashes dumped in the Gettysburg Battlefield.

My parents want me to be buried in the "family plot".  I told them I want to be burnt to a crisp and my ashes dumped in the Gettysburg Battlefield.


Use my ashes to fertilize some ganja plants!

No, you're not being cold and callous.  Cemeteries are for the living. 


For what purpose? I hope you're being facetious, sometimes I miss a sarcastic interludes.

I have already told my son what to do upon my death, he ask if he could sell my body on ebay. My answer was:
"Boy, if you can make money selling my body by all means do it." otherwise, I want the cheapest possible way to
dispose of the rotting heap of flesh and bones.

Also, no service, no obituary, nothing; I just want to be forgotten.

For what purpose? I hope you're being facetious, sometimes I miss a sarcastic interludes.

I have already told my son what to do upon my death, he ask if he could sell my body on ebay. My answer was:
"Boy, if you can make money selling my body by all means do it." otherwise, I want the cheapest possible way to
dispose of the rotting heap of flesh and bones.

Also, no service, no obituary, nothing; I just want to be forgotten.


I wasn't being sarcastic.  Cemeteries are for the living to remember the dead.  Take for example Mozart's grave, it's empty.  No one really knows where he's buried.  So why the empty grave marked by a really huge monument.  For the living to remember him.

Can't sell body parts on ebay.  Oh well, you can donate your body to science.  It's a nice way to give back to society.

If you want to be forgotten then make it well known before hand.

I wasn't being sarcastic.  Cemeteries are for the living to remember the dead.  Take for example Mozart's grave, it's empty.  No one really knows where he's buried.  So why the empty grave marked by a really huge monument.  For the living to remember him.

Can't sell body parts on ebay.  Oh well, you can donate your body to science.  It's a nice way to give back to society.

If you want to be forgotten then make it well known before hand.


OK, do the living really need acres of valuable land to remember the dead? Do the dead know, or care if the
living remember them? Take the Vietnam War Memorial, thousands of names on wall in a relatively small parcel
of land. Couldn't the same principle be used in lieu of acres of land containing decaying bodies. Would the dead be
any less remembered with a name on a plaque instead of a body buried in the ground?

OK, do the living really need acres of valuable land to remember the dead? Do the dead know, or care if the
living remember them? Take the Vietnam War Memorial, thousands of names on wall in a relatively small parcel
of land. Couldn't the same principle be used in lieu of acres of land containing decaying bodies. Would the dead be
any less remembered with a name on a plaque instead of a body buried in the ground?


I agree with the wasted real estate.  The question of do the dead know or care, well that may if you believe in the paranormal (ghost, poltergeist stuff like that.)  I don't think the subject of death is as black and white as most people think.  Different culture, religions, perceive death in different ways.

As for the Vietnam Memorial I agree with you there also it is very fitting.

While I'm ranting: don't tell me "They died before their time," what? Is there a list? Is there a set date we are supposed to die on?

Actually, there is: http://www.deathclock.com/  :D


My living will:

1. Pull the plug.
2. No embalming. Let my corpse bake in the sun for three days and then lay it on a slab for my funeral. That way only my true loved ones will show up and the service will be mercifully brief.//


LOL! I want my funeral to be a party. Forget all that crying and what not, people should be mixing it up!

(reminds self to include in will a stripper dancing on my coffin...)

"They've gone to a better place" doesn't bother me. It's seems pretty neutral a statement. "S/He's with the Lord now" would be irritating to hear though.

Looking at the statement objectively, even being dead and worm food (i.e., "better place") has many advantages over my current situation; the major drawback is the inability to change your status.  ;D

Like everyone else on the planet, I'll find out when I'm dead if indeed it's a better place.

"You're a daisy if you do."....Doc Holiday - Tombstone

I've been told I was cold and callous for saying things of this nature. I believe dead is dead, is worm food acceptable?
which brings me to my next point. Cemeteries are the biggest waste of real estate on the planet and coffin salesmen
are the biggest con artist. The only time they interact with a consumer is when the consumer is distraught and vulnerable.
They'll try to sell the most expensive model for the comfort of the loved one. Does a dead guy really need comfort? these
slugs prey on people at their weakest moments.



I told my Mom she's getting the cheapest coffin.. and I explained why for two reasons. I said - A, it makes no difference and B I want to get a freakin cardboard coffin that will just decompose and be environmentally friendly instead of a 3 grand hunk of wood, she feels this is an intelligent decision. Myself, I want the viking funeral, I wanna float out to sea on fire, seriously.

I told my Mom she's getting the cheapest coffin.. and I explained why for two reasons. I said - A, it makes no difference and B I want to get a freakin cardboard coffin that will just decompose and be environmentally friendly instead of a 3 grand hunk of wood, she feels this is an intelligent decision.

Reasonable and intelligent idea, Davey. I'd go with a plain white sheet instead of cardboard: the wick effect will make you burn better.


Myself, I want the viking funeral, I wanna float out to sea on fire, seriously.


That's probably banned by Homeland Security (arson at sea) the Coast Guard (littering), the EPA (dumping toxic chemicals in water), and . . .

The local Harbormaster (no wake zone!).

I say go for it.  :)

Reasonable and intelligent idea, Davey. I'd go with a plain white sheet instead of cardboard: the wick effect will make you burn better.

That's probably banned by Homeland Security (arson at sea) the Coast Guard (littering), the EPA (dumping toxic chemicals in water), and . . .

The local Harbormaster (no wake zone!).

I say go for it.  :)


Right on. I'll find a way! I'm thinking a pallet, 2 empty barrels and some kerosense.

Morbid talk,how fun!

I'll never die and i won't let anyone else i love die,so no need to worry :)

Morbid talk,how fun!

I'll never die and i won't let anyone else i love die,so no need to worry :)


I guess im not going to die then.  LoL.  J/K.


I think its funny that we put people in graves to remember them, but then there are anthropologists who dig up graves of people in the past to find out how they lived and sheeshe.  Imagine 200 years from now, after an apolcolypse, many generations of survivors start digging into the past.  Oh, on this continent they ate at McDonalds and got fat.  This continent they like to run, put killed each other with machetes. 

I dont know about you, but I dont feel comfortable in cemetaries.  It doesn't make me feel any better about the death of someone.  I go there, look down at the ground and wonder just what their bodies look like now.  Is it all bone under their clothes?  Do they have some skin left?  Are the worms and bugs dancing around and having a party?  Cemetaries are a big waste of space.  Pretty soon there will be no more expansion and its either move to the midwest in the middle of nowhere or take over the cemetaries. Hmmm, remember Poltergiest?  He He.

The viking ceremony sounds great.  I was going to be cremated, but that sounds like a cool way to be cremated.  Since I dont have money to be dropped through earths atmosphere, that will have to do.  My Dad mentioned he wants his ashes to be dropped in a volcano. 

Thank you! 
We now have a zillion sheeple out there who think they're going to stand on a clud strumming a golden harp.  Only in Gary Larson cartoons, my friend.
When you die, there's nothing else.  I think that scares the living daylights out of people.  It shouldn't.  If you cease to exist as an entity ipso facto you'll never know it.

A better place?

"What if this is as good as it gets?"

--Jack Nicholson.

^ My opinion on these matters is not final and subject to change!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/11/angel5.gif
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/14/sign10.gif
"Living-impaired"
I'll have to remember that one.
I prefer "won't be down for breakfast," but that's only applicable just after somebody dies.  "Jerry Falwell won't be down for breakfast."
"Bought the farm" was a favorite of my old man, who has not "bought the farm," but if he keeps sitting in that La-Z-Boy and watching FOX News, he will soon enough.
So I adopted "bought the farm," then I found myself using it for inanimate objects, for example, "My old CD player finally bought the farm."  Nah, doesn't sound right.

"Shuffled off this mortal coil," and "run down the curtain and joined the silent invisibles" are two colorful ones I like, both of which I stole Monty Python's "Dead Parrot" sketch!


  I always liked "gave up the ghost..."

  Most appropriate if you die on the cross.  Brownie points if you die for sins...

I had a dream last night that I died, and then all of the sudden I was a dolphin leaping up through the ocean waves.  It was AWESOME.  It was sort of like reincarnation, but instant.  I hope it's like that.  ;D

I hate cemetaries too, and the idea of being buried.  It's horrible and creepy.  I have only been to my mom's grave twice, and it was right after her funeral.  I haven't even seen her headstone and have no desire to do so.  I want to be cremated and have my ashes thrown in the ocean.  That way, at least my ashes can travel all over the world. 

"Shuffled off this mortal coil," and "run down the curtain and joined the silent invisibles" are two colorful ones I like, both of which I stole Monty Python's "Dead Parrot" sketch!


I do believe it's actually (or was originally) "Run down the curtain and joined the Choir Invisible" but I could be wrong there. :)

As much as I don't believe there is a "better place", I find myself respecting it when people say so, especially about people they are close to. Losing a loved one is an extremely harrowing experience; if them believing that person's soul has moved on to another, better level of existence is going to help them get past it, that's good. If it helps them to prepare for their own end, also good. When the moment comes, they'll neither know nor care if they were wrong, so there's no harm in it in that regard. It only becomes a problem when people are promised they will go to some "special" area of "paradise" for doing things in life that would otherwise be reprehensible. How do they know this? It's just zealous justification for acts that can't be justified.

Morbid talk,how fun!

I'll never die and i won't let anyone else i love die,so no need to worry :)


Indeed, for you're too tough to die.

The viking ceremony sounds great.  I was going to be cremated, but that sounds like a cool way to be cremated.


Right, If I was cremated I'd want my ashes scattered at sea anyway, may as well just cut out the middle man. I suppose the one advantage of being cremated first is they could take the ashes anywhere and scatter them, but hey, the Atlantic is fine with me.

If it could be proven, it wouldn't be called faith.

It amazes me to see the unity of comments on a thread like this where group mentality and agreement to bash Christian believers seems to be the prevailing thought process & the only posts. There was one or 2 that seemed to not bash or make fun of those beliefs, but I guess I'm really not amazed as it is easier to not believe in something, especially things you can't see, prove, or be 100% guaranteed of. I believe in God, as the creator, and believe that this quick life we have here is not the end and that there is so much more than meets the eye and our senses and for as much intelligence as we have or is available, things like this are a mystery, yet my heart feels completely convinced it is true. There are men and women greater, smarter, wiser & more talented and gifted than me that were very strong believers that are respected by all and I think to bash Christianity and call it the Religious Right is very disparaging to all Christians and while it may not make me feel good, I accept whatever mocking or teasing, or having my faith be made fun of. That comes with being a believer and I have no grudges or ill feelings towards anyone here, but refuse to just sit passively and not get another opinion on here. here's a quote from a very famous believer, the late Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. whom I doubt would be bashed for his faith by anyone here if he were alive and still preaching a sermon on the Gospel.

"I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every
hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain,
and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord
shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together.

This is our hope. This is the faith that I go back to the South with.
With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a
stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling
discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this
faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle
together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing
that we will be free one day.

This will be the day, this will be the day when all of God's children will
be able to sing with new meaning "My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of
liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my father's died, land of the Pilgrim's
pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring!"

And if America is to be a great nation, this must become true."

Rev. King was one of the greatest people in history, and as much as he had enormous faith, what he stood for and believed in transcended his own religious belief. He fought for all of Mankind, not just those who agreed with him. He epitomised what the Christian ideal should be. If there is a Heaven, he should be right there next to God.

I had a dream last night that I died, and then all of the sudden I was a dolphin leaping up through the ocean waves.  It was AWESOME.  It was sort of like reincarnation, but instant.  I hope it's like that.   ;D

I hate cemetaries too, and the idea of being buried.  It's horrible and creepy.  I have only been to my mom's grave twice, and it was right after her funeral.  I haven't even seen her headstone and have no desire to do so.  I want to be cremated and have my ashes thrown in the ocean.  That way, at least my ashes can travel all over the world. 


I used to say i wanted to be cremated too,well if i ever die,which i won't :P,but i went to a cremation once and it creeped me out,just the smoke and smell made me faint,i couldn't get over the "burned" flesh thing,plus i think i would make a lovely corpse!


If it could be proven, it wouldn't be called faith.

It amazes me to see the unity of comments on a thread like this where group mentality and agreement to bash Christian believers seems to be the prevailing thought process & the only posts. There was one or 2 that seemed to not bash or make fun of those beliefs, but I guess I'm really not amazed as it is easier to not believe in something, especially things you can't see, prove, or be 100% guaranteed of. I believe in God, as the creator, and believe that this quick life we have here is not the end and that there is so much more than meets the eye and our senses and for as much intelligence as we have or is available, things like this are a mystery, yet my heart feels completely convinced it is true. There are men and women greater, smarter, wiser & more talented and gifted than me that were very strong believers that are respected by all and I think to bash Christianity and call it the Religious Right is very disparaging to all Christians and while it may not make me feel good, I accept whatever mocking or teasing, or having my faith be made fun of. That comes with being a believer and I have no grudges or ill feelings towards anyone here, but refuse to just sit passively and not get another opinion on here. here's a quote from a very famous believer, the late Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. whom I doubt would be bashed for his faith by anyone here if he were alive and still preaching a sermon on the Gospel.

"I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every
hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain,
and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord
shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together.

This is our hope. This is the faith that I go back to the South with.
With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a
stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling
discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this
faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle
together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing
that we will be free one day.

This will be the day, this will be the day when all of God's children will
be able to sing with new meaning "My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of
liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my father's died, land of the Pilgrim's
pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring!"

And if America is to be a great nation, this must become true."


Mike,karma for that,and you don't have to accept having your faith being made fun of at all,i think you have just put everyone to shame with your post 8)

If it could be proven, it wouldn't be called faith.

It amazes me to see the unity of comments on a thread like this where group mentality and agreement to bash Christian believers seems to be the prevailing thought process & the only posts. There was one or 2 that seemed to not bash or make fun of those beliefs, but I guess I'm really not amazed as it is easier to not believe in something, especially things you can't see, prove, or be 100% guaranteed of. I believe in God, as the creator, and believe that this quick life we have here is not the end and that there is so much more than meets the eye and our senses and for as much intelligence as we have or is available, things like this are a mystery, yet my heart feels completely convinced it is true. There are men and women greater, smarter, wiser & more talented and gifted than me that were very strong believers that are respected by all and I think to bash Christianity and call it the Religious Right is very disparaging to all Christians and while it may not make me feel good, I accept whatever mocking or teasing, or having my faith be made fun of. That comes with being a believer and I have no grudges or ill feelings towards anyone here, but refuse to just sit passively and not get another opinion on here. here's a quote from a very famous believer, the late Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. whom I doubt would be bashed for his faith by anyone here if he were alive and still preaching a sermon on the Gospel.

"I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every
hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain,
and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord
shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together.

This is our hope. This is the faith that I go back to the South with.
With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a
stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling
discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this
faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle
together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing
that we will be free one day.

This will be the day, this will be the day when all of God's children will
be able to sing with new meaning "My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of
liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my father's died, land of the Pilgrim's
pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring!"

And if America is to be a great nation, this must become true."



If I could give you a thousand karmas right now, I would. Thank you for this post. I agree wholeheartedly with you as well. I am sick of hearing only one side on these boards, and constantly being bashed for my beliefs. This messageboard is so one-sided, it's not even funny. People call themselves openminded and such, but then continue to spew ugly words of hatred towards something that they can't/don't/won't believe in.  Nobody is asking any of them to convert or believe ....but a little respect would be nice once in awhile. I am at a point in my life where I don't care at all what people think of me and what I believe anymore. If someone is going to hold something like that against me...then they aren't someone that I'd want to have in my life anyway. It's funny how people on here can go on and on with bashing the "religious right" etc...saying the most disgusting things....but then a certain board member gives her opinions and rubs certain members the wrong way, by throwing out a few insults...and what happens to her...she gets banned...what a double standard.

Yeah I think that the original post here was a bit mean-spirited.

Yeah I think that the original post here was a bit mean-spirited.


I thought it was a bit too "black and white".

Hmmm, I don't know. I think it was a bit much for someone to suggest it was the "religious right's feeble attempt to justify the death of a loved one". That's a BIG call to make. When a six-year old girl who is close to my family died from leukaemia in March, my mother who is neither particularly religious nor Right said she could see her "walking Honey (her little dog) on a cloud in heaven" and it made her feel better believing that. As much as I didn't believe that, what was I going to say?

I used to say i wanted to be cremated too,well if i ever die,which i won't :P,but i went to a cremation once and it creeped me out,just the smoke and smell made me faint,i couldn't get over the "burned" flesh thing,plus i think i would make a lovely corpse!

Mike,karma for that,and you don't have to accept having your faith being made fun of at all,i think you have just put everyone to shame with your post 8)
Thanks Isabel, & I meant to put no one to shame or to feel guilty because I like most everyone here a lot. or maybe I did mean to, I dunno. I wanted to add a different angle or opinion on the matter.  I do know that I understand the different feelings about what people believe. I had a friend at work that had this thing about ghosts and hauntings. It seems that every apartment or house he ever lived in had to be haunted & I know I rolled my eyes at him with sarcastic skepticism & yet he believed it completely. I'm a skeptic in a lot of things myself, but had a profound experience that changed me 29 years ago.  I gotta go with my conscience & heart on this, instead of logic, or reason because it tells me that God is as real as anything or anyone I know. The bible says it seems like foolishness to people. I accept that so call me a fool.  :D 



If I could give you a thousand karmas right now, I would. Thank you for this post. I agree wholeheartedly with you as well. I am sick of hearing only one side on these boards, and constantly being bashed for my beliefs. This messageboard is so one-sided, it's not even funny. People call themselves openminded and such, but then continue to spew ugly words of hatred towards something that they can't/don't/won't believe in.  Nobody is asking any of them to convert or believe ....but a little respect would be nice once in awhile. I am at a point in my life where I don't care at all what people think of me and what I believe anymore. If someone is going to hold something like that against me...then they aren't someone that I'd want to have in my life anyway. It's funny how people on here can go on and on with bashing the "religious right" etc...saying the most disgusting things....but then a certain board member gives her opinions and rubs certain members the wrong way, by throwing out a few insults...and what happens to her...she gets banned...what a double standard.
I hear ya Erin, It's not easy to publicly declare yourself a believer. You risk ridicule, but not hatred for you or me, it's not personal. There are a lot of "Christians" that have been in the media and they've given the world a bad impression of the faith and are not at all like what the majority of Christians are like. I think people are annoyed by that and then have disdain for Christianity period. It's their right to do so, but yeah, it's not as easy as "water off a ducks back" we're not ducks, and it does hurt when people make fun of something that is a part of your life, but that's what you signed on for and that's the treatment Christians have been recieving since the early days.


Yeah I think that the original post here was a bit mean-spirited.
I am not sure i agree with this, because I think the thread was just based on a persons opinion of terminology and that is one of my pet peeves with the church. Using jargon and Chritianese talk. I was listening to a Christian radio station and some guys is talking about sunshine of Jesus or something I didn't understand, & I look at Diane and say, now what in the heck is he talking about?  ??? If we can't understand it, how are people in the world supposed to decipher that crap? this is a thread for discussion or goofy replys like most of the threads are, and I don't fault the originator, as he is a good man, and I like him. no harm done. I didn't post so as to guilt people into not contniung this thread, and I know people here will post their thoughts as they always do.  8)


I thought it was a bit too "black and white".
it sure was spaceace, but that's just me and my simple mind doing the best I can.


...as for sayings like the one that started this thread, if you go to a biker funeral and you'll hear "I know he's riding a Harley up there in Heaven"  or any other funeral for cool dudes, and whatever theyir passion or hobby was,  it will be what they're doing now that they're"up there"  so yeah, those sayings are kinda goofy. I like going to the cemetary and taking flowers to my moms grave. I loved her and miss her and the memory of her is vivid when I do that so it's not a waste of space or land to me.

it is easier to not believe in something, especially things you can't see, prove, or be 100% guaranteed of.


Seeing as we're in a quoting mood...

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

.. and that my friend, was Thomas Jefferson talking.. and he kicks King's ass on a daily basis.

Seeing as we're in a quoting mood...

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

.. and that my friend, was Thomas Jefferson talking.. and he kicks King's ass on a daily basis.
that's a good quote, I think I read that once when I was looking for seperation of church and state stuff but I don't know what servile means  ???. the thing with reason, even with Jefferson's brilliant mind is that reason has limitations and a being like God (if exists) has to go beyond human reason, time, dimension and we'll never fully understand until we enter that arena. whatd'ya mean he kicks King's ass. This sounds like it would be a good celebrity death match.

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0Je5x9A5lFGNkcAnTGjzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBsdmIydTZhBHNlYwNwcm9mBHZ0aWQDSTAwMV83MA--/SIG=11segfc32/EXP=1179858880/**http%3A//www.3xl.net/tvcmult/121883904.jpg

Both Jefferson and Martin Luther King were great men.


If I offended anyone at all I apologize, but my point wasn't trying to be one sided.  I didn't try to spew ugly words of hatred.  Should I hold my opinion cause im afraid that it will offend someone else though?  I never bashed your faith.  I didn't say it was religious right's feeble attempt to justify the death of a loved one.  I was saying that I dont need it in my life.  There is nothing wrong with having your faith.  It is nice to think that you will go to a better place, but I do not believe this.  Does this mean that you cant?  No.  

Dont act like a victim when someone questions the way you believe.  Jews have been victims alot longer than Christians.  And you say its hard to be open about your beliefs.  It can be hard at times to be open about being an athiest just the same.  There are athiests who openly bash religious people, so they may think all athiests are the same, same type of reasoning.  I grew up in predominantly Mormon neighborhood.  My friends where Mormon, but it wasn't fun feeling like I wasn't going to be accepted cause I didn't believe the way they did.  From the way I heard, it was personal attacks that got other people banned.  Questioning someones belief on a whole is not a personal attack.  You can write what you feel, feel bad when someone makes comments about your religion, but in the end you have what you believe in.  That faith alone should make it so you shouldnt' have to worry about people making fun.  Plus, this is a forum.  

Your right, I sometimes base my opinion on religion because I hear things like, soldiers are dying because America tolerates gays.  I base my opinion because from what I know about religion, it is to try to live the best life you can, be kind to others, and trust in God.  Well, alot of them get the trust in God right, and think since they have that, they are automatically living the best life they can, while looking down on everyone else.    

I believe that cemetaries are a waste of land.  Ok, thats my belief.  Cemetaries are places for people to go and remember their loved ones.  I can remember who died through pictures and memories without a cemetary.  I can go on living know when I die, thats the end.  I can go on living know that when people who are close to me die, then thats the end.  You believe that you will go to a better place, and thats perfectly fine.  If it makes your life better, then there is nothing wrong with that.

I don't know about Jefferson kicking King's ass, but I do know he would be mortified if he knew what the Neo-Cons are doing to America.

The truth is none of us know what is on the other side we can only speculate. There could be nothing or there could be a heaven and hell, or there could be something completely different.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.



Cat

that's a good quote, I think I read that once when I was looking for seperation of church and state stuff but I don't know what servile means  ???. the thing with reason, even with Jefferson's brilliant mind is that reason has limitations and a being like God (if exists) has to go beyond human reason, time, dimension and we'll never fully understand until we enter that arena. whatd'ya mean he kicks King's ass. This sounds like it would be a good celebrity death match.

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0Je5x9A5lFGNkcAnTGjzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBsdmIydTZhBHNlYwNwcm9mBHZ0aWQDSTAwMV83MA--/SIG=11segfc32/EXP=1179858880/**http%3A//www.3xl.net/tvcmult/121883904.jpg


I dislike King.. I like Jefferson.. although I think in a fight.. I dunno who'd win. Probably King, he was bigger I think and I dare say would benefit from the improved dietary and medical advances of his time.

Here's the thing that makes me laugh re: God.

Man is created in God's image, no?
Man has a sense of humor.
The basis of all humor is the superiority or inferiority of another being, thing or one'self.
God therefor.. has a sense of humor.
God see's others as inferior.
God is judgmental.
Mankind is not after all equal.
The bible is mute.

Of course, I hypothesize. I refer thee to the book of Tom Araya - "All men are not created equal, only the strong shall prosper, only the strong shall conquer, only in the darkness of Christ can we realize - God Hates Us All."

I liked this story (tried to link to the Torygraph version of the same, which had IMO a better picture, but it's timing out)

Whether "gone to a better place" is accurate or not: who's to say whether oblivion is better or worse than existance?

here's a quote from a very famous believer, the late Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. whom I doubt would be bashed for his faith by anyone here if he were alive and still preaching a sermon on the Gospel.

"I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every
hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain,
and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord
shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together.

This is our hope. This is the faith that I go back to the South with.
With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a
stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling
discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this
faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle
together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing
that we will be free one day.

This will be the day, this will be the day when all of God's children will
be able to sing with new meaning "My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of
liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my father's died, land of the Pilgrim's
pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring!"

And if America is to be a great nation, this must become true."


This speech always brings tears to my eyes. 

Hmmm, I don't know. I think it was a bit much for someone to suggest it was the "religious right's feeble attempt to justify the death of a loved one". That's a BIG call to make. When a six-year old girl who is close to my family died from leukaemia in March, my mother who is neither particularly religious nor Right said she could see her "walking Honey (her little dog) on a cloud in heaven" and it made her feel better believing that. As much as I didn't believe that, what was I going to say?

It is important to comfort a six-year-old, but not to let *religion* render us six years old forever!
::)

It is important to comfort a six-year-old, but not to let *religion* render us six years old forever!
::)


Warm.. warmer... disco.

Both Jefferson and Martin Luther King were great men.


If I offended anyone at all I apologize, but my point wasn't trying to be one sided.  I didn't try to spew ugly words of hatred.  Should I hold my opinion cause im afraid that it will offend someone else though?  I never bashed your faith.  I didn't say it was religious right's feeble attempt to justify the death of a loved one.  I was saying that I dont need it in my life.  There is nothing wrong with having your faith.  It is nice to think that you will go to a better place, but I do not believe this.  Does this mean that you cant?  No.  

Dont act like a victim when someone questions the way you believe.  Jews have been victims alot longer than Christians.  And you say its hard to be open about your beliefs.  It can be hard at times to be open about being an athiest just the same.  There are athiests who openly bash religious people, so they may think all athiests are the same, same type of reasoning.  I grew up in predominantly Mormon neighborhood.  My friends where Mormon, but it wasn't fun feeling like I wasn't going to be accepted cause I didn't believe the way they did.  From the way I heard, it was personal attacks that got other people banned.  Questioning someones belief on a whole is not a personal attack.  You can write what you feel, feel bad when someone makes comments about your religion, but in the end you have what you believe in.  That faith alone should make it so you shouldnt' have to worry about people making fun.  Plus, this is a forum.  

Your right, I sometimes base my opinion on religion because I hear things like, soldiers are dying because America tolerates gays.  I base my opinion because from what I know about religion, it is to try to live the best life you can, be kind to others, and trust in God.  Well, alot of them get the trust in God right, and think since they have that, they are automatically living the best life they can, while looking down on everyone else.    

I believe that cemetaries are a waste of land.  Ok, thats my belief.  Cemetaries are places for people to go and remember their loved ones.  I can remember who died through pictures and memories without a cemetary.  I can go on living know when I die, thats the end.  I can go on living know that when people who are close to me die, then thats the end.  You believe that you will go to a better place, and thats perfectly fine.  If it makes your life better, then there is nothing wrong with that.
You're right Scott, in that questioning someone's belief is not always a personal attack and sometimes I can see myself get a little sensitive, but not too often, & it's not all bashing and irregardless, my skin is pretty thick & I can take a lot and usually it does not get to me but mostly I just wanted to inject another side to the topic.

You're right Scott, in that questioning someone's belief is not always a personal attack and sometimes I can see myself get a little sensitive, but not too often, & it's not all bashing and irregardless, my skin is pretty thick & I can take a lot and usually it does not get to me but mostly I just wanted to inject another side to the topic.


I give you all the credit in the world, you have your beliefs.. and you know exactly how I feel about them.. and you know I'm way too stubborn to accept most of what you say in compromise, but you still debate them in a polite and open manner.. I have to admit, when you become involved in the discussion, I find myself becoming more polite because it's easier to with you, you actually listen.  :)

I give you all the credit in the world, you have your beliefs.. and you know exactly how I feel about them.. and you know I'm way too stubborn to accept most of what you say in compromise, but you still debate them in a polite and open manner.. I have to admit, when you become involved in the discussion, I find myself becoming more polite because it's easier to with you, you actually listen.  :)
I appreciate that Andy, thanks, and  I appreciate our differences & our friendship here on the board.  I try not to take things too personally and that helps. I expect some flak when I put my opinion on threads like this because believeing is not the popular opinion but I like the action it stirs up. It seemed like almost everyone was in agreement with one another with no contrast & I like a little contrast to balance things out.  The thing is, I can only engage in serious stuff so much before I'm ready to go back to the fun sections  ;D 

I appreciate that Andy, thanks, and  I appreciate our differences & our friendship here on the board.  I try not to take things too personally and that helps. I expect some flak when I put my opinion on threads like this because believeing is not the popular opinion but I like the action it stirs up. It seemed like almost everyone was in agreement with one another with no contrast & I like a little contrast to balance things out.  The thing is, I can only engage in serious stuff so much before I'm ready to go back to the fun sections  ;D 


Which is fair enough, I do generally appreciate your input though.

Which is fair enough, I do generally appreciate your input though.
my input in the politix religion section is like once every 4-6 months, if that.  I think the last time I was in this section was saddaam's hanging thread andAlex was still around so it has been awhile.

my input in the politix religion section is like once every 4-6 months, if that.  I think the last time I was in this section was saddaam's hanging thread andAlex was still around so it has been awhile.


Hey Mike, do you think Saddam has gone to a better place??? http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/03/confused5.gif

I prefer the term "living-impared".  It sounds P.C. and I really don't like to say "kicked the bucket", "pushing up daisy", "bought the farm"  ya know,crap like that. :P
I kind of like "bought the farm". ;D

I told my Mom she's getting the cheapest coffin.. and I explained why for two reasons. I said - A, it makes no difference and B I want to get a freakin cardboard coffin that will just decompose and be environmentally friendly instead of a 3 grand hunk of wood, she feels this is an intelligent decision. Myself, I want the viking funeral, I wanna float out to sea on fire, seriously.
That's really cool!

I guess im not going to die then.   LoL.  J/K.


I think its funny that we put people in graves to remember them, but then there are anthropologists who dig up graves of people in the past to find out how they lived and sheeshe.  Imagine 200 years from now, after an apolcolypse, many generations of survivors start digging into the past.  Oh, on this continent they ate at McDonalds and got fat.  This continent they like to run, put killed each other with machetes. 

I dont know about you, but I dont feel comfortable in cemetaries.  It doesn't make me feel any better about the death of someone.  I go there, look down at the ground and wonder just what their bodies look like now.  Is it all bone under their clothes?  Do they have some skin left?  Are the worms and bugs dancing around and having a party?  Cemetaries are a big waste of space.  Pretty soon there will be no more expansion and its either move to the midwest in the middle of nowhere or take over the cemetaries. Hmmm, remember Poltergiest?  He He.

The viking ceremony sounds great.  I was going to be cremated, but that sounds like a cool way to be cremated.  Since I dont have money to be dropped through earths atmosphere, that will have to do.  My Dad mentioned he wants his ashes to be dropped in a volcano. 


Hope his don't get lost like Scotty's!!! :o

Hope his don't get lost like Scotty's!!! :o


I dont care about them getting lost.  I just care about not slipping and falling in.  LoL. 

I've been sitting here now for about an hour seething, not really knowing how to respond.

Just like every argument that's ever been had. You dissect it, take out a sentence you want to
focus on and use it for your vile retribution. I've read more than one post that referred to my quote,
"Religious right's feeble attempt....." but they have failed to refer to the sentence prior to it, " I don't
know about anyone else, but this phrase bugs ME." This makes it my opinion,
and at no point did I bash anyones belief.

What really surprises me, is that no one even bothered to ask what may have happened in order for me
to post such a topic. Just paint me out to be a cold, callous Heathen who has nothing better to do than
bash the Christians.....for the record: I am a baptized Catholic, I spent 8 years in a Catholic school and was an
Alter boy. I probably know more about the Bible than most people here; especially the things the Clergy
doesn't want you reading. Believe me, I've asked the Priest and Nuns the same questions I've asked here.
I know what it is like to be a Christian; it's just that I refuse to be a sheep. I will not follow blindly and go along
with the flock because it's what God wants. I will ask the questions that people are afraid to, I will continue to
stand against organized religion's concept of what is "God's word." If I ruffle a few feathers along the way...so be it.

Look, I don't care who believes in what, I am not out to change anyones belief. I try to start threads that will create
debate. If we all agreed, the world would be a boring place.

It's funny how people on here can go on and on with bashing the "religious right" etc...saying the most disgusting things....but then a certain board member gives her opinions and rubs certain members the wrong way, by throwing out a few insults...and what happens to her...she gets banned...what a double standard.


Erin, you surprise me. Are you insinuating that I should be banned?

I've been sitting here now for about an hour seething, not really knowing how to respond.
Just like every argument that's ever been had. You dissect it, take out a sentence you want to
focus on and use it for your vile retribution. I've read more than one post that referred to my quote,
"Religious right's feeble attempt....." but they have failed to refer to the sentence prior to it, " I don't
know about anyone else, but this phrase bugs ME." This makes it my opinion,
and at no point did I bash anyones belief.
What really surprises me, is that no one even bothered to ask what may have happened in order for me
to post such a topic. Just paint me out to be a cold, callous Heathen who has nothing better to do than
bash the Christians.....for the record: I am a baptized Catholic, I spent 8 years in a Catholic school and was an
Alter boy. I probably know more about the Bible than most people here; especially the things the Clergy
doesn't want you reading. Believe me, I've asked the Priest and Nuns the same questions I've asked here.
I know what it is like to be a Christian; it's just that I refuse to be a sheep. I will not follow blindly and go along
with the flock because it's what God wants. I will ask the questions that people are afraid to, I will continue to
stand against organized religion's concept of what is "God's word." If I ruffle a few feathers along the way...so be it.
Look, I don't care who believes in what, I am not out to change anyones belief. I try to start threads that will create
debate. If we all agreed, the world would be a boring place.


I italicized the important parts.  :)

"Drones since the dawn of time, compelled to live their sheltered lives, not once has anyone ever seen, such a rise of pure hypocrisy, I'll instigate, I'll free your mind, I'll show you what I've known all this time. Homicide, suicide, hate heals, you should try it some time. Strive for peace with acts of war, the beauty of death we all adore. I have no faith distracting me, I know why your prayers will never be answered. Pessimist, terrorist, targeting the next mark, global chaos feeding on hysteria, cut throat, slit your wrist, shoot you in the back fair game. Drug abuse, self abuse, searching for the next high, sounds a lot like hell is spreading all the time, I'm waiting for the day the whole world f**king dies. Man made virus infecting the world, self-destruct human time bomb. What if there is no God would you think the f**kin' same, wasting your life in a leap of blind faith. Wake the f**k up, can't ignore what I say, I've got my own philosophy. I never said I wanted to be God's disciple, I'll never be the one to blindly follow, I'll never be the one to bear the cross, disciple."

Hey Mike, do you think Saddam has gone to a better place??? http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/03/confused5.gif
;D  I don't really know, maybe at the last minute he saw himself like the thief on the cross next to Jesus who at that last dying moment, the man believed and asked Jesus to forgive him & remember Him when He comes into His kingdom & Jesus told this repentant criminal "today you shall be with Me in paradise" so anythings possible. If God  doesn't exist, than Saddam is in the same place we will all be.


I've been sitting here now for about an hour seething, not really knowing how to respond.

Just like every argument that's ever been had. You dissect it, take out a sentence you want to
focus on and use it for your vile retribution. I've read more than one post that referred to my quote,
"Religious right's feeble attempt....." but they have failed to refer to the sentence prior to it, " I don't
know about anyone else, but this phrase bugs ME." This makes it my opinion,
and at no point did I bash anyones belief.

What really surprises me, is that no one even bothered to ask what may have happened in order for me
to post such a topic. Just paint me out to be a cold, callous Heathen who has nothing better to do than
bash the Christians.....for the record: I am a baptized Catholic, I spent 8 years in a Catholic school and was an
Alter boy. I probably know more about the Bible than most people here; especially the things the Clergy
doesn't want you reading. Believe me, I've asked the Priest and Nuns the same questions I've asked here.
I know what it is like to be a Christian; it's just that I refuse to be a sheep. I will not follow blindly and go along
with the flock because it's what God wants. I will ask the questions that people are afraid to, I will continue to
stand against organized religion's concept of what is "God's word." If I ruffle a few feathers along the way...so be it.

Look, I don't care who believes in what, I am not out to change anyones belief. I try to start threads that will create
debate. If we all agreed, the world would be a boring place.

Kevin, I know you & like you too much to think bad of you for this thread or anything posted. You posted your beliefs and your thoughts on certain phrases about the afterlife and if my feathers get a little ruffled, well good! I hope I don't ever give belief and faith in God a bad reputation. I think as a Christian, it can seem like Christianity is picked on more than any other religion but I do my best to accept peoples varying beliefs and thoughts and debates on it and not get so defensive that I attack someone for not believing or for expressing their opinion. 

I think as a Christian, it can seem like Christianity is picked on more than any other religion


I think we all know that's not really the case.  ;)

I think we all know that's not really the case.  ;)
Denying it doesn't make it untrue and it's not too subtle. in the courts, tv, newspapers, magazines, radio, media, hollywood, websites, it's everywhere in this country.  I'm being persecuted Davey  :\'(

Denying it doesn't make it untrue and it's not too subtle. in the courts, tv, newspapers, magazines, radio, media, hollywood, websites, it's everywhere in this country.  I'm being persecuted Davey  :\'(


I wouldn't worry too much Mike. Try being a Muslim, Jew, Sikh, Hinduh, Buddhist, Pagan... I dare say you'll find life is a little harder.  ;)

I wouldn't worry too much Mike. Try being a Muslim, Jew, Sikh, Hinduh, Buddhist, Pagan... I dare say you'll find life is a little harder.  ;)
I hear ya Andy. I was into Zen Buddhism & oriental philosophy when I was young, tried trancendatal meditation. Being a Christian in a Muslim or Communist country may be a little bit rougher than here.


...back on topic, I recall the movie NightHawks with Rutger Hauer as the terrorist Wulgar and before he killed his victims he would utter this line " You'll go to a better life" with a smile on his face. good movie
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0Je5qgrmFRG9l4AhgOjzbkF/SIG=12a86af8k/EXP=1180035499/**http%3A//www.inventorysource.com/images/nv/NV2131334.jpg

I dont care about them getting lost.  I just care about not slipping and falling in.  LoL. 


how can you slip and fall in your own ashes if you,ve been cremated??? :o ???

how can you slip and fall in your own ashes if you,ve been cremated??? :o ???


I was talking about throwing my Dad's ashes in the Volcano, but me falling in it instead.

...back on topic, I recall the movie NightHawks with Rutger Hauer as the terrorist Wulgar and before he killed his victims he would utter this line " You'll go to a better life" with a smile on his face. good movie
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0Je5qgrmFRG9l4AhgOjzbkF/SIG=12a86af8k/EXP=1180035499/**http%3A//www.inventorysource.com/images/nv/NV2131334.jpg




"I don't like killing, Deke, but it's my job; somebody's got to do it.".......Wulfgar

Nighthawks is one of my favorite movies. Keith Emerson, of ELP fame, did the soundtrack for the movie. I think it's
one of Stallones best movies and the quote you gave was going through my mind when I first posted this thread.

"I don't like killing, Deke, but it's my job; somebody's got to do it.".......Wulfgar

Nighthawks is one of my favorite movies. Keith Emerson, of ELP fame, did the soundtrack for the movie. I think it's
one of Stallones best movies and the quote you gave was going through my mind when I first posted this thread.
we used to watch this flick all the time when it first came out on video. hey kevin, i tried to PM you, but I'm not able to send you a PM, so here's my PM for you regarding your PM to me.

""no sweat Kevin. I appreciate your thoughtfulness & it would take a lot for me to be bummed out and renounce you as a friend.  ;D  please don't walk on eggshells on my behalf, because I know you don't intend any personal digs, so post away my friend""

(Please, when reading this reply, do not look at it as a moderator trying to squash anything, I am just Tam replying to a thread. I am a very open person and enjoy many different perspectives, so reply if you feel the need. Thanks)

The one thing I love about this place is that a harmless thread can be created, and next thing you know we are off debating a completely different topic in the same thread! I enjoy reading what 'each side' has to say, I love watching it all unfold.


...let me show you how I believe..... no, just look at the way I do....


Convictions are very strong here! Have I said I love it yet?


"The have gone to a better place."

How many times have you heard this phrase mentioned when someone dies. I don't know about
anyone else but this phrase bugs me. It's the religious right's feeble attempt to, not only make
someone feel better, but to justify the death of a loved one. They try to make us think that we
are all just part of some master plan.

Not once, since the dawn of time, has someone come back and told us there is a better, or worse, place
than the one we're in now. Being a skeptic I want proof; I want to hear for myself of paradise, of virgins.
I want someone who's been there to tell me what it's like on the other side; to tell me it's better. Not some
hack living in world speculating of a better place and how beautiful it is while the whole time they have their
hand in my wallet.

While I'm ranting: don't tell me "They died before their time," what? Is there a list? Is there a set date we are
supposed to die on? The only way to die before your time is if you have a set time to die and you die before then.
We die when we die, not too soon; not too late, in this case it's over when it's over.


I can understand where you are coming from Kevin. Unfortunately, I personally think that people say this merely to try and ease their own or another's pain. My faith leads to me say it and believe it, but there are those who have different faith, who still say it - maybe to make peace with the situation, or ease of the situation.
I could go on and on with what my faith has taught me about a list and death etc. but I am sure that is not what you are looking for.


MmmHmm, it's all Christian bulls**t, once again, the Christians forcing their vile rhetoric on to others.


Davey, you know I love ya Man, and that being said, you know I can't let you away with this!
To me, this statement then says ..."but here, let me force my Anti-Christian bulls**t on you!"...


I prefer the term "living-impared".  It sounds P.C. and I really don't like to say "kicked the bucket", "pushing up daisy", "bought the farm"  ya know,crap like that. :P


This is hilarious!!! I almost spit pepsi onto the monitor when I read it!!! ;D


"You're a daisy if you do."....Doc Holiday - Tombstone

I've been told I was cold and callous for saying things of this nature. I believe dead is dead, is worm food acceptable?
which brings me to my next point. Cemeteries are the biggest waste of real estate on the planet and coffin salesmen
are the biggest con artist. The only time they interact with a consumer is when the consumer is distraught and vulnerable.
They'll try to sell the most expensive model for the comfort of the loved one. Does a dead guy really need comfort? these
slugs prey on people at their weakest moments.



Wow Kevin, what's going on? Obviously I have read forward and of course, you said no one has asked so I am asking.



If I could give you a thousand karmas right now, I would. Thank you for this post. I agree wholeheartedly with you as well. I am sick of hearing only one side on these boards, and constantly being bashed for my beliefs. This messageboard is so one-sided, it's not even funny. People call themselves openminded and such, but then continue to spew ugly words of hatred towards something that they can't/don't/won't believe in.  Nobody is asking any of them to convert or believe ....but a little respect would be nice once in awhile. I am at a point in my life where I don't care at all what people think of me and what I believe anymore. If someone is going to hold something like that against me...then they aren't someone that I'd want to have in my life anyway. It's funny how people on here can go on and on with bashing the "religious right" etc...saying the most disgusting things....but then a certain board member gives her opinions and rubs certain members the wrong way, by throwing out a few insults...and what happens to her...she gets banned...what a double standard.


Which brings me to why I am even replying in the first place.
From this post and the one it pertains to onward, the entire debate changed.

IMHO, I think what is trying to be said is that Christians are bashed at the drop of the hat (but not always) yet we do not see Christains bashing the heck out of Atheists. It would be very easy for a Christian to say to you ..."Do you not realize your lack of belief is going to send you straight to hell?"... but we don't. Why would we want to? It is far too easy for anyone to blame Christians, because Christians are an easy target for nonbelievers. Fortunately, (most/some) Christians are taught to not be arrogant and forthright or judgemental. And it always seems to be one-sided bashing.

That being said, I understand what a lot of people have conveyed is that, as a board of mostly adults, with or without the same beliefs, faiths etc. we should ultimately still have empathy for one another, whether we agree or not. Problems stem not from the debate itself, but from the ignorance or intolerance of another's faith.

The debate in this thread is amazing, and I wish it hadn't stopped. (Well, the bashing part can be done without, but the debate itself could go on forever)

I thought I had a lot more to say, but right now words seem to be eluding me.
Tam

Davey, you know I love ya Man, and that being said, you know I can't let you away with this!
To me, this statement then says ..."but here, let me force my Anti-Christian bulls**t on you!"...


In no way, shape or form would I ever deny that.

I happen to think we'd all be a lot better off with my anti-christian rhetoric, but then again, there's a bunch of folks running around strapping bombs to themselves thinking the same thing.
It's just they'd want to replace it with new rhetoric.

Re: They've gone to a better place. Yes, they're living in cyberspace .... inthe00s.com .... they've found 'heaven!'  ::) "Look up, look up! It's up there!"  ::)


I saw this religious documentary recently by Richard Dawkins, an Oxford university professor, who is very much an atheist. He cited the quote, show me the boy at the age of 7, and I will give you the man. Fact is, most children more or less follow their parents religion, and at that age (or before) they're highly impressionable. Faith ends up replacing the need for logic/ probing questions, science. Science has theories that it sets out to prove/disprove through rigorous examination of the evidence. As theories emerge with 'holes' in them, the theory gets refined, or abandoned. Still, just because a widely accepted scientific theory  occasionally ends up with 'egg on it's face', is no reason to ... well abandon reason, or the continuing search for the truth. A lot of what we have today is thanks to the scientific method.

The program (above) found Dawkins debating  Islamic, Jewish and Christians who were heavily defensive of their faiths, and just skipped right over any reasoning / scientific / historical evidence that the dogma in their religious books was inaccurate. 'It's a matter of faith, that's what I believe, I'm right, your wrong,  next?', The Islamic guy came across as a thug who tried to intimidate Dawkins, and belittle the western culture, and our 'cheap western women who we allow to dress like whores' (well, maybe not the exact words, but pretty much the sentiment). I have to say some of the religious teachers from all religions came across as quite hostile when Dawkins tried to put their reasoning for believing what they did/ teaching to children what they did, when the science said it was wrong. If looks could kill (and it would be in the name of 'God', like millions of deaths actually have been through history  .....).

Dawkins looked at the bible, and found the God of the old testament to be quite a nasty, vengeful piece of work. Even in the new testament, he found plenty of inconsistencies, quoting from various verses. In the end, he just found the whole thing to be ... well, unbelieveable. He reckons 'paradise' if it exists, is right here on Earth, and you'd better grab it right now, whilst you can. He reckons that the chances of us as  humans/ individuals with the thought processes that make us up, ever coming into existence had astronomical chances against it ever occurring ... and also there is plenty of things in nature to marvel at, so he sees 'heaven' / 'wonder'  in all of that.

A friend of mine recently mentioned he'd seen a doco. about how it emerged that much of what ended up in the old testament was pinched by the Jews from the Sumerians, and that by the end of the program any little doubt about God being a possibility had gone up in smoke.

Whatever your faith, or lack thereof, in the end I reckon it's being a decent person that counts the most. Not who's right or wrong about 'God'.  Atheist? Believer? We'll never convince each other, one way or the other, (well, 99.9% ?), so we just have to tolerate each other in that respect. Still, disturbingly, I'm aware of the view that  many doors are closed to high office in the USA if you're an atheist, at least that's the assertion made by people in these docos. Perhaps some might be thus motivated  to be 'born again' ...?

Gotta go, and work on feeding some worms (patience!, patience ....).

Whatever your faith, or lack thereof, in the end I reckon it's being a decent person that counts the most.

Karma +++

I think we all know that's not really the case.  ;)

If Christians get picked on it is a result of hundreds of years of picking on non-Christians.  "Liberals" and "secular progressives" in this country don't like self-proclaimed Christians imposing their will on them anymore than Christians like "secular progressives" imposing their will.  The reaction to unsolicited proslytizing is scorn and ridicule.  That's why so many people cheered when Jerry Falwell died.  I'm not saying that's the right thing to do, it's just what happens to pushy moralists. 

If Christians get picked on it is a result of hundreds of years of picking on non-Christians.  "Liberals" and "secular progressives" in this country don't like self-proclaimed Christians imposing their will on them anymore than Christians like "secular progressives" imposing their will.  The reaction to unsolicited proslytizing is scorn and ridicule.  That's why so many people cheered when Jerry Falwell died.  I'm not saying that's the right thing to do, it's just what happens to pushy moralists. 


Nail on the head.

I think it's a little obtuse to claim that Christians are 'picked on' for lack of a better term, here in the U.S. This is supposed to be a secular country yet our Government is, at all levels, controlled by Christians who defiantly govern by Biblical principal.
It's nearly impossible to be elected if one adopts a secular stance toward Government, yet the whole purpose of the founding of this country was so that could happen.
I do find it somewhat amusing, that in the countries of Western Europe, that in times past, had oppressive church run governments, now, the church has extremely little say in Government processes and has essentially been abandoned in many nations. The U.K and France spring to mind very quickly.
Even in the rabidly Catholic countries of Spain and Italy, the church's hand moves through the Government, but certainly no more than here in the U.S.

What fills me with hope is that more and more citizens are standing up and saying "Hold on, this isn't right." The Oppressive Christians (and I fully believe that they're in the minority) will eventually be the tyrants who's blood must be shed to wash clean the cloth of Democracy and and Liberty.