The full story is here.

I'll give my thoughts on this later.

That's silly. The Easter Bunny isn't even religious.  ::)

http://www.thestranger.com/blog/files/2006/11/medium_oreillymad.2.jpg

it's the war on easter!

isn't the easter bunny pagan? although the holiday itself is sorta religious. (sorta!)

i dunno, i'm sorta conflicted about this. as a nonchristian i'm actually a little fed up with christians running around acting like they own america. some christians really need to start learning how to play with others. i spent my whole childhood not really caring much about all these christian holidays they pushed down us in school and i found it a little irksome, to tell you the truth. on the other hand, the way we honored the holidays in school was scarcely religious at all... we just noodled around with little trinket gifts in colored eggs and giving each other little cards and whatnot. i mean, you take all these rituals that have nothing to do with the alleged resurrection of christ and slap the word "easter" on em -- is it reallly changing it that much to just get rid of the "easter" term? since it has so little to do with religion anyway, the way it's practiced.

and anyway, shouldn't these kids be doing their religious celebrating at home? why is it when it comes to celebrating christian holidays, so many religious folks are suddenly okay with the State coming in and indoctrinating their kids? why is this whole thing about keeping the government out of our private lives so selective? what if their kids were having muslim or jewish holidays forced on them? would they be so vociferous about big intrusive government then?

Geez, the next thing you know, these schools are going to start banning breathing ::)

That's silly. The Easter Bunny isn't even religious.  ::)

Agreed.
The idea to rename the Easter Bunny is nuts IMHO.
The Easter Bunny is the secular version of the holiday and in no form does he actually reflect the Christian belief that is associated with this weekend. To take away a tradition such as this (for me anyway) takes away from everything I grew up believing in and have fun tricking my sister with.
What are they going to try and change next? Let me guess - at Halloween they must be surely going to ban ghouls and goblins since the day is associated with Satan and evil. Christmas must also bid farewell to Santa Claus since he is the secular individual for that day. And of course, we must also bid farewell to Cupid, Baby New Year, Green Beer... Hell, we might as well do away with Thanksgiving too since it was Christians who apparently ate with the natives....
I know all of my examples don't meet the full ideal behind banning the Easter Bunny - but IMHO, if you do any with one - you better do away with all.

I'm with Tia    ;)

I'm with Tia    ;)

Mee tooo!

You can't win.  First you had the Christian zealots bellyaching because the secular progressives drove Jesus out of the public schools on Easter, leaving only the Pagan rabbit!

Now all the PC fanatics are having a go a the Easter Bunny, it ain't gonna stop there.  To wit:

The Easter Bunny is too religious so we're renaming him Peter Rabbit. 

No!  That's out.  Peter?  that's assigning gender and that's sexist! 

Hey wait a minute!  Peter?  That's St. Peter* and that's also religious, so that's out!

PETA (not Peter) says, Rabbit?  When you anthropomorphosize an animal, you're saying the animal is inferior to humans and must be made more like humans to be accepted.  It's species-ist, so that's out!  Plus it's animal exploitation to paint eggs.  Eggs belong to chickens, not people!  That's out!

The food police say, jelly beans, chocolate, and marshmallows are full of sugars, starches, saturated fats, and artificial enhancers, which promote obesity, high cholesterol, and tooth decay.  Candy?  That's out!

Student: Excuse me, teacher, what are we going to do for Easter this year?
Teacher: Don't you dare say Easter!  Not everybody's Christian.  Some of are Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Wiccan, or atheist. It's Spring Celebration, mmmkay?
Student: OK, so what are we going to do for Spring Celebration?
Teacher: You are going to eat your organic granola, and then we will discuss all the injustice in the world and how you can lead your life without hurting, oppressing, or exploiting other people!

*If you saw South Park last week, you know St. Peter was a rabbit!

If you think the above is just a lampoon, think again.  It could come to pass.  A few years ago, the educational association in charge of editing texts for schools did, in fact, rule that children's textbooks could not mention birthday parties.  Reasons included:
a. Some children are not economically advantaged enough to have birthday parties.
b. Birthday cake is fattening and non-nutritious.
I'm not kidding.  If I could remember the source, I'd link to it.

___________________________________________________

There was one Jewish kid in my elementary school class.  At this Waldorf school, they taught the whole story of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus.  Of course, Waldorf education is very ecumenical.  They teach everything from Norse myths to Buddhist philosophy.  Anyway, we painted eggs and stuff too.  The Jewish boy went right along.  Neither he nor his parents felt this was offensive.  It was never even mentioned.  In fact, we gentiles envied Josh because he got  holidays off from school that we didn't get plus the holidays we did!


http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/icon_albino.gif

it's weird, the pagan hippy upbrining i got, we usually celebrated christmas but at least one year my folks decided to celebrate hanukah, too. cuz we were basicallly spiritual agnostics, yanno? it was like a smorgasbord of funky holidays out there for us to choose from!

I heard about this.  *sighs* It's always something.  *spaceace takes another bite of her easter bunny*

Why rename him to Peter Rabbit? I don't think Beatrix Potter would approve-besides I always thought his name was Peter Cottontail. As for the whole thing, I think it is just obsurd. You can't have Christmas trees (they must be called holiday trees-or how about a Hanakah bush?), now they are doing the same with the Easter bunny? Yeah, the bunny is orginally Pagan (like so many other so-call Christain traditions). The egg is a Pagan symbol for fertility. What's in a name? Would a hare by any other name still bring chocolate and jelly beans?



Cat

This is an example of the PC people taking their ideas too far. Personally, I say Merry Christmas and Happy Easter, etc. I refuse to use those over politically correct terms. It's one thing to not have public schools teaching the Bible in a science class (which I am of course against) and another thing to be banning the Easter Bunny.

I'm with MaxwellSmart.

http://www.thestranger.com/blog/files/2006/11/medium_oreillymad.2.jpg

it's the war on easter!

isn't the easter bunny pagan? although the holiday itself is sorta religious. (sorta!)

i dunno, i'm sorta conflicted about this. as a nonchristian i'm actually a little fed up with christians running around acting like they own america. some christians really need to start learning how to play with others. i spent my whole childhood not really caring much about all these christian holidays they pushed down us in school and i found it a little irksome, to tell you the truth. on the other hand, the way we honored the holidays in school was scarcely religious at all... we just noodled around with little trinket gifts in colored eggs and giving each other little cards and whatnot. i mean, you take all these rituals that have nothing to do with the alleged resurrection of christ and slap the word "easter" on em -- is it reallly changing it that much to just get rid of the "easter" term? since it has so little to do with religion anyway, the way it's practiced.

and anyway, shouldn't these kids be doing their religious celebrating at home? why is it when it comes to celebrating christian holidays, so many religious folks are suddenly okay with the State coming in and indoctrinating their kids? why is this whole thing about keeping the government out of our private lives so selective? what if their kids were having muslim or jewish holidays forced on them? would they be so vociferous about big intrusive government then?


I fully agree.  We should ban the celebration of, or even aknowledgement of, any remotely religious holiday from our schools.

No celebration of Christmas, Serbian Christmas, Easter, Yom Kippur, Passover, Chanukkah, Hallowee'en, Independence day (US was founded on, amongst other things, religious freedom), Ramadan etc etc.

American prevailing culture should be stripped of anything that reflects religion even though many of the basic institutions are based on principles rooted in religions.  Keep it all strictly business, stick to the facts only ma'am.

Oh SH*T.  I just described Red China.  :o

well, sorta. red china is also a socialist superstate. i hardly think renaming easter in one elementary school puts us at much danger of becoming like china. ;D

i see your point... sorta. but why is it that the christian holidays are the only ones that ever REALLY get acknowledged? i stand by my original statement -- some christians need to learn there are other people on the planet besides themselves.  ::) it's not PC to say that if you're nonchristian, you shouldn't have to feel excluded all the time.

This reminds of a South Park, episode, unfortunatly.  ::)

The Easter Bunny gets banned and so naturally Christians are attacked.
Makes sense to me....

well, isn't the christians (i should say some christians, namely the freaky fundamentalist types) the people who are getting exercised about it? cuz their chokehold on the public schools is getting questioned? ::)

they're the ones who are constantly saying my tax dollars should go to forcing people to worship THEIR god. i for one got fed up with that stuff when i was going to school, to tell you the truth.

well, isn't the christians (i should say some christians, namely the freaky fundamentalist types) the people who are getting exercised about it? cuz their chokehold on the public schools is getting questioned? ::)

they're the ones who are constantly saying my tax dollars should go to forcing people to worship THEIR god. i for one got fed up with that stuff when i was going to school, to tell you the truth.


School bans the Easter Bunny - that's the subject. I have heard MANY stories about how terrible Christians are in this and have heard NOTHING from Christians. Of course, one could always spin any story to get their bashing in somehow, but the point is; bunny banned, Christians are attacked.

One has to wonder why so many are threatened by Christians. Personally I think it is because of their voting tends to be for Republicans. The premise that it is unfair to other religions is silly; I don't think most give a crap about other's religious preferences. It's political... attack Christians in any way you can & at every opportunity - you get more folk on the left ...........

The president of the Atheist (religion) was doing an interview on TV gloating that "they are winning" and then naming off all the great anti-Christian things that are happening, (like taking God out of the pledge, the ACLU and their win over the boy scouts, (wow, impressive stuff) on and on. They support democrats who are attacking Christians.... Without Christians & morals - the party would have more votes!

Without Christians & morals - the party would have more votes!




Huh?

Huh?
party dude! woo hoo!

School bans the Easter Bunny - that's the subject. I have heard MANY stories about how terrible Christians are in this and have heard NOTHING from Christians. Of course, one could always spin any story to get their bashing in somehow, but the point is; bunny banned, Christians are attacked.

One has to wonder why so many are threatened by Christians. Personally I think it is because of their voting tends to be for Republicans. The premise that it is unfair to other religions is silly; I don't think most give a crap about other's religious preferences. It's political... attack Christians in any way you can & at every opportunity - you get more folk on the left ...........

The president of the Atheist (religion) was doing an interview on TV gloating that "they are winning" and then naming off all the great anti-Christian things that are happening, (like taking God out of the pledge, the ACLU and their win over the boy scouts, (wow, impressive stuff) on and on. They support democrats who are attacking Christians.... Without Christians & morals - the party would have more votes!

Atheist religion is an oxymoron, and if the "president" of an atheist group was gloating about it, then he's a jackass. 

What is threatening is the cultish behavior of right-wing born again/evangelicals who wish to provoke armageddon in the Middle East and believe they will be raptured away to the clouds, and their antinomian ideas about how they can be vicious, petty, rotten, and selfish here on Earth because they have accedpted Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour. 

The Republican Party platform is set 180 degrees opposite from the teachings of Jesus (the Dems are not much closer, mind you).  When they talk about morality, they mean sexual restraint, and yet where the populations of self-identified "Christians" are highest, so are the divorce rates, teenage pregnancy rates, infidelity rates, sexual assault rates, and pornography sales.

Is it threatening that 50% of Americans believe in the literal story of Adam and Eve not the scientif theory of evolution?  Is it threatening that the greatest deniers of global warming are not energy executives but politicians and preachers who call themselves "Christian"?  Is it threatening that even the ultra-conservative preachers recruited to direct Bush's White House "faith-based" policies quit because Karl Rove laughs at them and they see not a shred of Christian compassion in the administration's policies?  Is it threatening that the Bush Administration chose to staff itself with 150 graduates of Regent University law school, a bottom-tier institution run by a fascist pharisee named Pat Robertson for the express purpose of establishing theocratic laws above Constitutional laws in this country?  Is it threatening?  Yeah, I'd say so!
:o

Atheist religion is an oxymoron, and if the "president" of an atheist group was gloating about it, then he's a jackass. 





I said Atheist (religion) because at the moment, (and typing fast), I could not come up with a better word. And "she" is a jackass & she did gloat.... we agree! Wow!


What is threatening is the cultish behavior of right-wing born again/evangelicals who wish to provoke armageddon in the Middle East and believe they will be raptured away to the clouds, and their antinomian ideas about how they can be vicious, petty, rotten, and selfish here on Earth because they have accedpted Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour. 



I must admit that I didn't fully "get" that first whole part. But typically, Christians know that can't be vicious, petty, rotten etc., on earth because they received Christ as their personal Saviour. If a person was that way, then those sin's are forgiven. If they are after they become Christians, then they are not saved... why? Because A. They know better and B. God reads one's heart & knows if they truly beleive. There is no magic way into Heaven by saying those words alone, you have to mean them and then act like a child of God because you love Him.

But not unlike any group on earth, there are bad eggs. In this college shooting we can't assume that every student is a killer that goes to VT, that would be silly. We can't assume that all Republicans are like president Bush or all Democrats are like Nancy Pelosi. All Christians are not like the few extremists that get the headlines either.
 




The Republican Party platform is set 180 degrees opposite from the teachings of Jesus (the Dems are not much closer, mind you).  When they talk about morality, they mean sexual restraint, and yet where the populations of self-identified "Christians" are highest, so are the divorce rates, teenage pregnancy rates, infidelity rates, sexual assault rates, and pornography sales.



I don't see how you can say the Republican Party platform is set 180 degrees opposite of the teaching of Jesus, and I certainly tried to get your meaning with the supporting paragraph, but I could not. Sorry.





Is it threatening that 50% of Americans believe in the literal story of Adam and Eve not the scientif theory of evolution? 



No. Why would that be threatening? the scientific "THEORY" of evolution has not been proven either. If you do not beleive in evolution, then we were not apes. If not apes, Adam and Eve don't sound that far off. A LOT of the stories in the Bible have been proven, LOTS of them. So it's not so much of a stretch to think the whole thing is true, right? (and I think it may be more than 50%




Is it threatening that the greatest deniers of global warming are not energy executives but politicians and preachers who call themselves "Christian"? 




No, not really cuz there are many many scientists who also do not believe in global warming as presented. The earth, many facts show, warms up & did so thousands of years ago when there were no humans running their cars and light bulbs. In the 70's there was a huge huge campaign to get the word out that there was a global cooling. while some areas are melting, most scientists say it's not close to what gore said, for example. And when those are melting, there are other parts where the freezing is growing...... etc. I think to call politicans and preachers etc. deniers is a big much. Facts can be deceptive & we should never simply take the word of those we like and ditch the others and call them nuts. 



Is it threatening that even the ultra-conservative preachers recruited to direct Bush's White House "faith-based" policies quit because Karl Rove laughs at them and they see not a shred of Christian compassion in the administration's policies?  Is it threatening that the Bush Administration chose to staff itself with 150 graduates of Regent University law school, a bottom-tier institution run by a fascist pharisee named Pat Robertson for the express purpose of establishing theocratic laws above Constitutional laws in this country?  Is it threatening?  Yeah, I'd say so!

I think you should remember that bush has not changed contitutional laws in the country and only has a short time left as president to make anything like what you are saying happen. I must say, I sort of wonder where you get all your stuff & if you counter-act that with facts - you may be threatened, but IMHO, I think you are being made to feel that way when you do not need to.

One has to wonder why so many are threatened by Christians. Personally I think it is because of their voting tends to be for Republicans.



Yo, Card carrying, Jim Talent voting Republican here. ;)

But seriously, Max is right I think, next thing you know, they'll take my thoughts away.

What's funny here is that it tends to be primarily the American Christians that get up in arms about these things.

I went to Catholic schools in the United Kingdom and regular state schools in France. In both of these there were predominantly white middle class god bothering familys.. we all had a christmas celebration, Easter etc.. oh.. and Diwali and learnt about all the other holidays going on.

Never any trouble, just kids learning things.

Should we not use the one, two, three code of number because it's Arabic.. after all, could be offensive to some Greek guys.  ::)

Yo, Card carrying, Jim Talent voting Republican here.  ;)

But seriously, Max is right I think, next thing you know, they'll take my thoughts away.



"They'll" take your thoughts away, Christians?   ;)




What's funny here is that it tends to be primarily the American Christians that get up in arms about these things.




Maybe the "up in arms thing" (which I do not even see & still beleive it's an easy excuse to bash Christians) is because it is not just the "easter bunny" - it could be that it is a series of things, one after another, that "get" to those who are Christians. Maybe they feel that taking God out of the pledge, a run for taking him off money, the ACLU and all their crap in the last 3 or 4 years especially, the ban on Christmas stuff all over the country, (but not on other religious symbols) etc etc., is just a bit much. Maybe it feels like an attack to many Christians & if a few of you put yourself in the shoes of people who really care a lot about God & see He is being attacked or reduced - you would understand. Maybe if you apply it to another subject that you care a lot about & imagine it being taken away bit by bit - you could understand.



Should we not use the one, two, three code of number because it's Arabic.. after all, could be offensive to some Greek guys.  ::)



I am sorry; I am not smart enough to understand that.

I split this into a new topic relating to Evolution and Creationism, please post discussion relating to those subjects in that topic.

Thanks.

http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=26393.0

I split this into a new topic relating to Evolution and Creationism, please post discussion relating to those subjects in that topic.

Thanks.

http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=26393.0
why do you hate freedom and the easter bunny?

j/k! i wasn't sure where the evolution subplot came from but yeah, that was a funny digression.

Maybe the "up in arms thing" (which I do not even see & still beleive it's an easy excuse to bash Christians) is because it is not just the "easter bunny" - it could be that it is a series of things, one after another, that "get" to those who are Christians. Maybe they feel that taking God out of the pledge, a run for taking him off money, the ACLU and all their crap in the last 3 or 4 years especially, the ban on Christmas stuff all over the country, (but not on other religious symbols) etc etc., is just a bit much. Maybe it feels like an attack to many Christians & if a few of you put yourself in the shoes of people who really care a lot about God & see He is being attacked or reduced - you would understand. Maybe if you apply it to another subject that you care a lot about & imagine it being taken away bit by bit - you could understand.

I agree all the banning of stuff is a bit ridiculous, but you are seeing it from only 1 point of view.  How do you think people who don't believe in God feel saying "one nation under God"?  How would you feel if the pledge said "one nation under Allah?"  The fact is that Christmas and Easter ARE Christian holidays.  Is it mere coincidence that they just happen to fall on/near pagan holidays (which has been around much longer than Christianity)?  How do you think pagans feel that THEIR holidays have been completely overlooked?  How about the Jewish people?  Muslims?  Where are THEIR representations?  Sure, in the schools kids are learning about more, but what about the rest of the country?  Why do government offices close on Christian holidays, yet are open on Jewish (or Muslim or Pagan or whatever) ones?

I agree all the banning of stuff is a bit ridiculous, but you are seeing it from only 1 point of view.  How do you think people who don't believe in God feel saying "one nation under God"?
welcome to my world, yanno? yeah, in america christians are accustomed to thinking of their religion as the one and only way for everybody and whatever, the rest of us put up with it but it gets mighty old sometimes.

welcome to my world, yanno? yeah, in america christians are accustomed to thinking of their religion as the one and only way for everybody and whatever, the rest of us put up with it but it gets mighty old sometimes.

And I must point out again, Moslems do the same crap.  That's why I like the Jews.  They don't even invite you to join!  You don't have rabbis occosting you on the streetcorner screaming, "Join us or burn in hell!"  I mean, you can join.  Gentiles do convert to Judaism.  The difference is you go down to the synagogue and talk to the rabbi, and he says, "So, you want to be a Jew?  Whatever for?"
;)

Buddhists are great too.  They're take is, "You already are a Buddhist whether you know it or not.  You can figure it out in this life, or in the next life, or in the one after that, or whenever.  We're a patient lot."
;D

And I must point out again, Moslems do the same crap.  That's why I like the Jews.  They don't even invite you to join!  You don't have rabbis occosting you on the streetcorner screaming, "Join us or burn in hell!"  I mean, you can join.  Gentiles do convert to Judaism.  The difference is you go down to the synagogue and talk to the rabbi, and he says, "So, you want to be a Jew?  Whatever for?"
;)
Brilliant, Max... post of the year for me so far :D

And I must point out again, Moslems do the same crap.  That's why I like the Jews.  They don't even invite you to join!  You don't have rabbis occosting you on the streetcorner screaming, "Join us or burn in hell!"  I mean, you can join.  Gentiles do convert to Judaism.  The difference is you go down to the synagogue and talk to the rabbi, and he says, "So, you want to be a Jew?  Whatever for?"
;)

Buddhists are great too.  They're take is, "You already are a Buddhist whether you know it or not.  You can figure it out in this life, or in the next life, or in the one after that, or whenever.  We're a patient lot."
;D


Then of course you got the group "Jews For Jesus".  Apparently Christians get brownie points if they even remotely convert a Jew. :P

Then of course you got the group "Jews For Jesus".  Apparently Christians get brownie points if they even remotely convert a Jew. :P

Yeah, I used to see that lot handing out flyers on streetcorners.  They're pretty obnoxious.

I agree all the banning of stuff is a bit ridiculous, but you are seeing it from only 1 point of view.  How do you think people who don't believe in God feel saying "one nation under God"?  How would you feel if the pledge said "one nation under Allah?"  The fact is that Christmas and Easter ARE Christian holidays.  Is it mere coincidence that they just happen to fall on/near pagan holidays (which has been around much longer than Christianity)?  How do you think pagans feel that THEIR holidays have been completely overlooked?  How about the Jewish people?  Muslims?  Where are THEIR representations?  Sure, in the schools kids are learning about more, but what about the rest of the country?  Why do government offices close on Christian holidays, yet are open on Jewish (or Muslim or Pagan or whatever) ones?


Then we agree!

Your first question, those who do NOT believe in God saying "one nation under God". For that one, I think (IMHO), that if they do not believe in God, it is meaningless when they say it & it should not bother them. They could even remain silent if they wanted to. If they do not believe in God, then the word God has no meaning at all - so why be offended? Maybe if they hated God, and believed in Him... then they may be offended saying that as opposed to maybe "one nation under Satan" - but hey, if He is not real, what's the big deal? (and it IS a big deal to people who believe to take God away in yet another area... it hurts a lot of people while other people who do not believe are really not hurt).

One nation under God is okay with Jewish people. Pagans, I guess there were not very many of them when our country was starting up here - they missed the early boats.

It is the law now for religious holidays for say  Muslims to be observed by employers (they need to give them the time off - that's representation or at least a darn good start, right? *at least in CA if not nation-wide

You are right about school breaks - but most schools now call Christmas and Easter breaks "Winter" and "Spring" Breaks. Maybe time will wear off the memories of the old "Christmas & Easter" Breaks & that will be a non-issue?

Having class parties with a colored eggs, some punch and a few bunny coloring pages to spice the day up is really not all that religious & to ban it is to rob the kids out of some fun to make a point or statement to the country - dumb stuff.

Then we agree!

Your first question, those who do NOT believe in God saying "one nation under God". For that one, I think (IMHO), that if they do not believe in God, it is meaningless when they say it & it should not bother them. They could even remain silent if they wanted to. If they do not believe in God, then the word God has no meaning at all - so why be offended? Maybe if they hated God, and believed in Him... then they may be offended saying that as opposed to maybe "one nation under Satan" - but hey, if He is not real, what's the big deal? (and it IS a big deal to people who believe to take God away in yet another area... it hurts a lot of people while other people who do not believe are really not hurt).

One nation under God is okay with Jewish people. Pagans, I guess there were not very many of them when our country was starting up here - they missed the early boats.






My grandmother was deeply religious and objected to "one nation under god" because she was raised to believe speaking the word "god" itself was sacriligious.  This was not an uncommon notion.  I was taught as a child to either not say "god" without bowing my head and looking down.  We were not part of some sect....Episcopalian(well then again...).  It was true, also, of the older Jewish people.  My Jewish friends all said that they were not allowed to say the word god, and when/if the word was written(many went to Hebrew School) one letter would be left out (G-d was common).  There was much resentment when Eisenhower added "under god", kind of shocking, too, considering he was raised a Jehovahs Witness.

My grandmother was deeply religious and objected to "one nation under god" because she was raised to believe speaking the word "god" itself was sacrilegious.  This was not an uncommon notion.  I was taught as a child to either not say "god" without bowing my head and looking down.  We were not part of some sect....Episcopalian(well then again...).  It was true, also, of the older Jewish people.  My Jewish friends all said that they were not allowed to say the word god, and when/if the word was written(many went to Hebrew School) one letter would be left out (Gd was common).  There was much resentment when Eisenhower added "under god", kind of shocking, too, considering he was raised a Jehovah's Witness.


I have friends who are Reformed Mennonites, they will not say the pledge of allegiance because it swears allegiance to a State.  They also believe in the division of Church and State.

My grandmother was deeply religious and objected to "one nation under god" because she was raised to believe speaking the word "god" itself was sacriligious. 

"Look, I'd had a lovely supper, all I said to my wife was, 'that piece of haddock was good enough for Jehovah!!'"
"Gasp...he said it again!"
"What's wrong with just saying 'Jehovah'?"
"You're only making it WORSE for yourself!"
"Worse? How could it be worse?  Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah!"

"No one is to stone anyone else until I blow this whistle, even if, and let me make this perfectly clear, even if they do say Jehovah!"
:D

IpledgallegiancetothflagoftheUnitedStatesvMericaantotherepublicforRichardstandsonenationunderGdivisiblewlibertynjusticefrall

That's how we used to recite it!  Heartfelt and reverent.

"Under God" never bothered me.  If this Abrahamic Sky God really exists, then we are in fact under Him.  If said God does not exist, saying so is a meaningless feint.  I mean, He's the only jealous little b*tch among all the deities you might want to worship.  Ever read that First Commandment?  He says He's jealous, but it's a sin for YOU to be jealous.  Talk about hypocrisy!  He's all like, "I own the joint, I can do whatever I want!"

i for one don't want my family subjected needlessly to the christian god and having my tax dollars go to subsidize it. i understand there's a certain "tradition" in this country forcing everyone to pretend to be christian in our public community spaces, whether they like it or not, but i think the time is fast approaching when america is going to be too diverse for that to fly anymore. sorry.

plus the religious right has so succeeded in marginalizing itself over the past few years i have a feeling what we're going to end up with is two cultures... one south of the mason-dixon line that will be fanatically christian, and one north of the mason-dixon line where that kind of stuff isn't put up with anymore. see, religious conservatives used to seem like part of mainstream america but they've gone so far off the deep end lately it's hard for them to pass themselves off as all mom-and-apple-pie the way they used to. if you want christianity to remain a part of american life, i recommend you don't worry about people like me... i recommend you look at your own constituency and find ways to influence them to become more moderate.

If you're a right-wing Jew who will shed his blood for the state of Israel, you are more righteous than any Christian, according to current evangelical dogma.  BUT...it's not enough to be ethnically Jewish and it is as anathema to be a "liberal" Jew as it is to be a "liberal" anything.  Religion is all about politics nowadays.

I don't think the Manson-Nixon line cultural divide is going to hold up much longer.  The Southern strategy is pretty much played out.  It doesn't look like the next nominee for the Republican presidential ticket is going to be a Southern boy.  McCain's from Arizona, but he's not Southern Southern, if ya know what I mean.  The Southern conservatives who require a rigid anti-choice, pro-gun, hate-the-gays stance might not have a candidate who serves their orthoodoxy.  They might find both parties marginalizing them and they might take their Bibles and "Abortion is Murder" placards and go home.  What a relief that would be.