With things being the way they are, do you all think that another 9/11 is soon approching. How would you handle it, if it did? WWIII might be comeing along soon (next decade, maybe) and we all will most likely be dreaming about going back to the 2000s when things were better. This is all very grim, but being realistic I have to ask.
Note: I am in no way involved in any terrorist activity, so don't ask!

This should probably be on the politics board.

There hasn't been another 9/11 because another 9/11 has not been necessary.  The first one is still working. 

This should probably be on the politics board.

There hasn't been another 9/11 because another 9/11 has not been necessary.  The first one is still working. 

The first 9/11 wasn't necessary

The first 9/11 wasn't necessary

Not necessary for you.  Not necessary for me.  Not necessary for any of us.  But it was necessary for some very rich and powerful people.  And that's all I'm going to say unless this thread is moved.

I notified a mod and asked if they could move it to the Politics board.  So hopefully when a mod comes on, the deed can be done.

With things being the way they are, do you all think that another 9/11 is soon approching. How would you handle it, if it did? WWIII might be comeing along soon (next decade, maybe) and we all will most likely be dreaming about going back to the 2000s when things were better. This is all very grim, but being realistic I have to ask.
Note: I am in no way involved in any terrorist activity, so don't ask!


  I agree with Max's first reply, anyway...

  Of course 9/11 was not necessary nor was it right in any sense, but we had it coming.  Our foreign policy has much to do with what motivates people to warfare...

   I agree with Max's first reply, anyway...

   Of course 9/11 was not necessary nor was it right in any sense, but we had it coming.  Our foreign policy has much to do with what motivates people to warfare...


But, just last summer a few guys tryed to sneak bomb formulas on a plane--just last summer. Luckly out FBI cought the terrorist in time.

But, just last summer a few guys tryed to sneak bomb formulas on a plane--just last summer. Luckly out FBI cought the terrorist in time.


  Yeah, I remember that.  There's a thread around here, somewhere, about the baby formula/bottled water thing...

  Are you afraid of another terrorist attack..?

9/11 was the best thing that could possibly have happened to the current administration. they were DYING to go into iraq and they were apparently dying to crack down on our civil liberties. did they know it was coming? i don't know, but in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 they sure acted like it.

when people call me down on 9/11 and ask me, no dude, do you really think the government knew about it before it happened and didn't do anything? i usually say, this current government has access to more political and military power than any government in human history. the nazis slaughtered 20 million people to get access to that power, the soviets countless millions. do you really think the current government in america would hesitate to kill 3000 people to get access to the same power?

   Yeah, I remember that.  There's a thread around here, somewhere, about the baby formula/bottled water thing...

   Are you afraid of another terrorist attack..?

Kind of, I was pretty young when it first happened and used to have nightmares about it. I'm 17, now.

There could be another terrorist attack sometime, who knows when and what they'll do. I doubt it would be like 9/11 since they know we're looking for that now, it's scary to think what could be next.

do you really think the current government in america would hesitate to kill 3000 people to get access to the same power?



I don't think they'd hesitate, but I do think they are too inept to pull off such a feat (i.e., 9/11).

Certainly Dick Cheney ordered stand down orders not to interfere with the planes as they were approaching their targets on the morning of 9/11.

Keith Olbermann just mentioned last night that the Giuliani administration ordered a speed-up of debris sifting.  When you have a crime scene of any magnitude--especially a major atrocity like 9/11--you give forensic investigators all the time they need.  What's more is after disaster that has taken so many human lives, investigators must retrieve as much human remains as possible.  They couldn't do that if it was a rush job.  Remember several months ago they found body parts in adjacent sub-street level spaces? 

I remember what a horrible mess the WTC aftermath was, and how bad it was for morale, but that is not a reason to pull a rush job on the crime scene of the century.  You know, some of that debris was eventually used to fill pot holes.  Next time you're driving through Manhattan, you might be riding over bits of 9/11 victims.  Not good at all.

Crews also did a rush job hauling away the structural remains, such as steel girders which had broken up into convenient uniform lengths. 

Something very fishy here.

I sure hope that is never a next 9/11.

9/11 was the best thing that could possibly have happened to the current administration. they were DYING to go into iraq and they were apparently dying to crack down on our civil liberties. did they know it was coming? i don't know, but in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 they sure acted like it.

when people call me down on 9/11 and ask me, no dude, do you really think the government knew about it before it happened and didn't do anything? i usually say, this current government has access to more political and military power than any government in human history. the nazis slaughtered 20 million people to get access to that power, the soviets countless millions. do you really think the current government in america would hesitate to kill 3000 people to get access to the same power?




I agree with you 100%. I remember being glued to the t.v. watching everything unfold and saying to myself that I wouldn't be a bit surprised if this Administration knew it was going to happen and did nothing to provent it.

As for another 9/11-sure it is possible. Homeland Security is joke to say the least. Our ports are not protected and cargo going onto planes are not screened but yet, I have to take off my shoes before boarding a plane and can't bring a bottle of water with me.



Cat

the thing about the 9.11 attacks is that they were so diabolically inventive. particularly hitting the twin towers in that staggered way so that when the second plane hit, there were all these cameras around to capture it. and the way they collapsed! did the terrorists or whoever plan it that way, figure out exactly where to hit the towers so that they would collapse? that was the part that made the attacks perfect, from a scare-the-american-people point of view. when the towers came down it just felt like the world was coming to an end.

and i read somewhere that staging the attacks cost like 100,000 dollars to stage, and cost america tens of billions of dollars. it's unlikely to me that these islamic terrorist guys could get that lucky or that clever again, particularly since their big thing seems to be blowing up marketplaces and gunning down schoolchildren, real hero stuff. ::) i mean, that's another reason why it seems strange to me, the attacks, the scale and planning and coordination of them is just unlike anything else these al qaeda characters have shown themselves capable of doing..

I agree that 9/11 was very fishy, and certainly played into the admin's hands.

As to another one, of course its possible.  I'd say the question isn't if but when, especially if we remain a relatively free and open country.  That, along with vigilance, is the price of freedom.

the thing about the 9.11 attacks is that they were so diabolically inventive. particularly hitting the twin towers in that staggered way so that when the second plane hit, there were all these cameras around to capture it. and the way they collapsed! did the terrorists or whoever plan it that way, figure out exactly where to hit the towers so that they would collapse? that was the part that made the attacks perfect, from a scare-the-american-people point of view. when the towers came down it just felt like the world was coming to an end.

and i read somewhere that staging the attacks cost like 100,000 dollars to stage, and cost america tens of billions of dollars. it's unlikely to me that these islamic terrorist guys could get that lucky or that clever again, particularly since their big thing seems to be blowing up marketplaces and gunning down schoolchildren, real hero stuff. ::) i mean, that's another reason why it seems strange to me, the attacks, the scale and planning and coordination of them is just unlike anything else these al qaeda characters have shown themselves capable of doing..


the government did not know about 9/11. I was totally unexpected.

the government did not know about 9/11. I was totally unexpected.
saying it doesn't make it so. and watch it with the personal insults, they crack down on that pretty hard around here.

Is that so.

saying it doesn't make it so. and watch it with the personal insults, they crack down on that pretty hard around here.

Sorry, I didn't mean to personally insult you. The IDEA is crazy...there, no one insulted, but the idea.

Sorry, I didn't mean to personally insult you. The IDEA is crazy...there, no one insulted, but the idea.
that's all right.

but i'm not really sure how crazy the idea is. i mean i wish it was crazy, really, but there's just so many things that make you go hmm... the aug 6 memo and the weird way bush and the rest of the administration people reacted that morning, the fact that they had war plans  in place before 911 and used 911 to implement them. the whole thing just seems fishy, but it's possible there are other explanations other than that they knew exactly what was going to happen and let it, or aided it. maybe they thought the attack would be less enormous than it turned out to be, that it would be a little thing like the uss cole, but still enough to give them the pretext to go to war -- asnd then when they saw how severe the attacks actually were they freaked out. it would account for theiir weird reaction, yanno?

that's all right.

but i'm not really sure how crazy the idea is. i mean i wish it was crazy, really, but there's just so many things that make you go hmm... the aug 6 memo and the weird way bush and the rest of the administration people reacted that morning, the fact that they had war plans  in place before 911 and used 911 to implement them. the whole thing just seems fishy, but it's possible there are other explanations other than that they knew exactly what was going to happen and let it, or aided it. maybe they thought the attack would be less enormous than it turned out to be, that it would be a little thing like the uss cole, but still enough to give them the pretext to go to war -- asnd then when they saw how severe the attacks actually were they freaked out. it would account for theiir weird reaction, yanno?



They freaked out? Sitting for 20 minutes reading "My Pet Goat". Well yeah, I would say that was a freakish way to act while the country is under attack.



Cat

They freaked out? Sitting for 20 minutes reading "My Pet Goat". Well yeah, I would say that was a freakish way to act while the country is under attack.



Cat

yeah, it was like vapor lock. seems like if you didn't have anything to hide you'd immediately be trying to get more info, figure out what to do. but there's so many stories of the administration guys just kinda... sitting there. it's strange.

yeah, it was like vapor lock. seems like if you didn't have anything to hide you'd immediately be trying to get more info, figure out what to do. but there's so many stories of the administration guys just kinda... sitting there. it's strange.



You just made me see a different perpective on this. When I first heard about it, I reacted-as I'm sure everyone else did. My reaction was to turn on the t.v.-get info, find out what was going on. I'm sorry but you are the president and your country is under attack-you SHOULD react-get info, find out what was going on. But, from your last post, I'm wondering if maybe they didn't need info or to find out what was going on-because they already knew. Hmmmm.




Cat

You just made me see a different perpective on this. When I first heard about it, I reacted-as I'm sure everyone else did. My reaction was to turn on the t.v.-get info, find out what was going on. I'm sorry but you are the president and your country is under attack-you SHOULD react-get info, find out what was going on. But, from your last post, I'm wondering if maybe they didn't need info or to find out what was going on-because they already knew. Hmmmm.




Cat

When 9/11 happened,i watched it at a shopping mall,while we were all glued to the screens wondering what had happened this homeless guy walks by and screams something i couldn't understand i asked the girl beside me to translate to me,he said something like "Bush just got his a** saved".

Actually, it was 7 minutes not 20.  Not that 7 minutes is any better.

Actually, it was 7 minutes not 20.  Not that 7 minutes is any better.
i'm not sure anyone actually knows for sure exactly how long it was. i've seen lots of different estimates.

i'm not sure anyone actually knows for sure exactly how long it was. i've seen lots of different estimates.



I only mentioned it because I had never heard 20 minutes before, only 7.  But in the long run, it really doesn't matter if it was 20 minutes, 7 minutes or 2 minutes.  It would still have been that amount of time too long.

They freaked out? Sitting for 20 minutes reading "My Pet Goat". Well yeah, I would say that was a freakish way to act while the country is under attack.



Cat


That alone is suspicious enough.  The president and commander-in-chief does not just sit there in an elementary school classroom for X number of minutes when terrorists are attacking.  It's sickening the way the PR guys said, "Well, he didn't want to alarm the children."  What about just saying, "Boys and girls, the president has some very important things to do--be good, study hard," or something like that?  Actually, I think in a crisis the magnitude of 9/11, the Secret Service would whisk the president into sequestered quarters pronto, and not give a rat's azz about frightening some kids.  What if whoever arranged the WTC attacks knew exactly where the president was that day and had designs on him too?

Of course, this supposes the administration was as blind-sided by the attacks as the rest of us, and Condi Rice didn't toss that memo into the circular file, and Dick Cheney didn't issue stand down orders to those fighter pilots!
:D

That alone is suspicious enough.  The president and commander-in-chief does not just sit there in an elementary school classroom for X number of minutes when terrorists are attacking.  It's sickening the way the PR guys said, "Well, he didn't want to alarm the children."  What about just saying, "Boys and girls, the president has some very important things to do--be good, study hard," or something like that?  Actually, I think in a crisis the magnitude of 9/11, the Secret Service would whisk the president into sequestered quarters pronto, and not give a rat's azz about frightening some kids.  What if whoever arranged the WTC attacks knew exactly where the president was that day and had designs on him too?

Of course, this supposes the administration was as blind-sided by the attacks as the rest of us, and Condi Rice didn't toss that memo into the circular file, and Dick Cheney didn't issue stand down orders to those fighter pilots!
:D



There is also a bridge in Brooklyn I will sell ya. Going cheap.  ;)




Cat

the thing about the 9.11 attacks is that they were so diabolically inventive. particularly hitting the twin towers in that staggered way so that when the second plane hit, there were all these cameras around to capture it. and the way they collapsed! did the terrorists or whoever plan it that way, figure out exactly where to hit the towers so that they would collapse? that was the part that made the attacks perfect, from a scare-the-american-people point of view. when the towers came down it just felt like the world was coming to an end.

and i read somewhere that staging the attacks cost like 100,000 dollars to stage, and cost america tens of billions of dollars. it's unlikely to me that these islamic terrorist guys could get that lucky or that clever again, particularly since their big thing seems to be blowing up marketplaces and gunning down schoolchildren, real hero stuff. ::) i mean, that's another reason why it seems strange to me, the attacks, the scale and planning and coordination of them is just unlike anything else these al qaeda characters have shown themselves capable of doing..


   I am satisfied that airliners caused the damage on 9/11.  But I am not satisfied that our government has carried out the most elementary investigation, and I am not satisfied that they have followed up with appropriate public disclosure of exactly who flew those aircraft and exactly who funded and trained them...

   I don't think those 9/11 pilots lucky or clever (These were fighter pilots trained in low-altitude high-speed weapons delivery, and struck 3 for 3.  Not bad...) but my point is that we have not been told who the pilots were.  "Bunch of Saudi Terrorists" is not an ID.  Nor have we been plausibly told where they were trained.  Nor has the money trail been followed and exposed...

   There is no evidence, motive, or behavior to suggest any component of the W. Bush admin desired or allowed 9/11.  However, there were warnings that were ignored at high levels, and in the aftermath the administration worked very hard to rapidly put distance and deniability between themselves and some shifty Saudis that they had ties with...

   The truth will definately not be a conspiracy theory.  I am not so much interested in the web of lies that the Bush Administration has concocted in order to satisfy supporters, but in the simple truth...

We can bicker, argue or just plain disagree.
It does not matter what we say. War was already in the plans. I just feel so sorry for the family's of the ones who will not be coming home.
Plus the fact the treatment all Vets get from the poorly run VA.... 85% of all the VA hosptials around this great(cough) nation, are deplorable :\'( :\'(.

There is also a bridge in Brooklyn I will sell ya. Going cheap.  ;)




Cat

I'll bet the Brooklyn Bridge at rush hour was a target they considered!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/glasses6.gif

I'll bet the Brooklyn Bridge at rush hour was a target they considered!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/glasses6.gif


Oh man, you shouldn't have said that. Now nobody will want to buy it from me.




Cat

okay, nobody's gonna say it so i'll just go ahead. the government is behind 9/11! they got some saudi's to stage a plane crash, and took out the steel girders with thermite, and explosive detonations.  >:(

okay, nobody's gonna say it so i'll just go ahead. the government is behind 9/11! they got some saudi's to stage a plane crash, and took out the steel girders with thermite, and explosive detonations.  >:(


Do you even know what thermite is?

Do you even know what thermite is?




Isn't it those little blind insects that eat through the wood in your house?

Isn't it those little blind insects that eat through the wood in your house?


Yeth, egthacly.

Yeth, egthacly.





http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o283/Nerdprincess1980/richard-simmons.jpg

Do you even know what thermite is?




WHAT? a thirteen year old who knows what thermite is? NO WAY!
    yes, i know what thermite is. please don't talk down to me just because of my age.

WHAT? a thirteen year old who knows what thermite is? NO WAY!
     yes, i know what thermite is. please don't talk down to me just because of my age.


Nobody even mentioned your age or talked down to you, so don't get pissy. Davey was probably just making sure you knew what you were saying, because a LOT of people like to throw big words around.

Also, quite a few people don't know what thermite is. I didn't until I looked it up a half hour ago, and I'm 27, for Christ's sake.

i apologize for being "pissy".  but i do know what i'm talking about.

Certainly Dick Cheney ordered stand down orders not to interfere with the planes as they were approaching their targets on the morning of 9/11.


This has been covered before.  The "Shoot Down Order" had already been given, but because of how our air defense network operates (it was all pointing outwards to intercept incomming incomming bombers - not inwards to target passenger jets), there was no easy way to vector interceptors to the planes in time.

And even if that happened, do you really think a fighter pilot would have been able to shoot down a plane full of civilians?  Personally, I think that there would have been only a 25% chance of a pilot even taking such a shot.  I doubt if I would have been able to do it without solid evidence what it was going to do.


Keith Olbermann just mentioned last night that the Giuliani administration ordered a speed-up of debris sifting.  When you have a crime scene of any magnitude--especially a major atrocity like 9/11--you give forensic investigators all the time they need.  Crews also did a rush job hauling away the structural remains, such as steel girders which had broken up into convenient uniform lengths. 


This has also been covered.  What we had was a 100' tall mound of rubble.  And it was burning, and emiting a slew of toxic chemicals.  Not to mention that they knew that the foundation had been cracked.  If they had taken the time that some people wanted, it probably would have ruptured, flooding both the entire subway system, and doing even more damate to New York.

In short, they needed to get that mess cleaned up as soon as possible.  There were hundreds of videos of what happened, there was no doubt that a plane stuck each tower.  If they had just collapsed on their own, I might agree with you.  But there was no doubt that they came down because of massive structural damage.

And why are you surprised that the girders came apart in uniform segments?  Over 85% of the structure was comprised of "standard" 53' steel girders.  And they were largely riveted together.  When it collapsed, the rivets would all pop, and the girders would collapse on their own.

In fact, I would be surprised if it did not collapse like that.  It would be like seeing an Erector Set building collapse, and finding beam lengths longer or shorter then those used to construct the structure.  In any construction, the joints (welded or rivited) are always the weakest link in the chain.

Do you even know what thermite is?



It's that weird stuff Australians use as a sandwich spread.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/09/smokin.gif

It's that weird stuff Australians use as a sandwich spread.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/09/smokin.gif


Nuh uh. We've already established that they're those wood eating insects that destroy houses. ;D

TOTALLY off topic: Have you ever tasted vegemite? Ergh. :P

It's that weird stuff Australians use as a sandwich spread.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/09/smokin.gif


;D ;D ;D

I think Marmite is probably more dangerous.

Well, we could go around and around again debating 9/11.  We've done it before.  I'm not committed to any particular conspiracy theory being true.  There's compelling evidence on both sides.  

It is interesting to note one of the biggest debunkers of 9/11 conspiracy happens to be a hard-line old school leftie, Alexander Cockburn.  This is a guy who also believes the Warren Commission is acurate.  And, yes, Cockburn still believes the capitalist system is rotten to the core.
So go figure.

The 9/11 conspiracy theorists, generally on the Left, think Cockburn is a traitor. On the other hand, when the question arose, "Why did they do this?," Cockburn gave a whole raft of rational reasons why terrorists would want to nail us.  Funny how people ask questions when they already have the answer they want: "They hate us for our freedom!"

Thus, Cockburn was branded an America hater, but he's used to that.

I could reply to Mushroom's arguments, but I just don't have time right now, and they would not convince him otherwise.

Anyway, this thread asked about the "next 9/11," not the first one, so I shouldn't have started in with all that conspiracy jazz, it's rather off-topic.  

alexander cockburn (pronounced "KO-burn," sorry howard!) was on c-span's in-depth last weekend. he kicks ass, even if he doesn't believe 9/11 was a conspiracy.

even if the bush administration orchestrated 9/11, the war in iraq is much the greater crime. and i'm pretty sure they were implicated in that, so i guess i don't wanna say i don't care if they were in on 9/11 anymore, but honestly at this juncture there are much bigger fish to try.

er, i mean, fry.

alexander cockburn (pronounced "KO-burn," sorry howard!) was on c-span's in-depth last weekend. he kicks ass, even if he doesn't believe 9/11 was a conspiracy.

even if the bush administration orchestrated 9/11, the war in iraq is much the greater crime. and i'm pretty sure they were implicated in that, so i guess i don't wanna say i don't care if they were in on 9/11 anymore, but honestly at this juncture there are much bigger fish to try.

er, i mean, fry.

I watched the whole thing!
I knew before that he does not believe 9/11 was inside job.  My 9/11 conspiracy obsessed friend was grumbling about him.  I did not know he believed the Warren Commission was the truth.  It makes sense for a critic of the whole system to dismiss these conspiracies.  What the conspiracy theories do is finger bad actors in the system, which Cockburn would call a distraction from the big picture.  Pointing to the intelligence community, the corporations, or the military-industrial complex as the problem invites reformist thinking.  Hardcore leftists don't go for that.

Cockburn talked about the Iraq war as being an irredeemable atrocity and critical of Clinton's policies as well.

(Don't forget about the Canadian singer/songwriter Bruce Cockburn--also pronounced Ko-burn!)