is totally hot.

http://images.washtimes.com/photos/full/20060904-115012-5895.jpg

who WOULDN'T wanna get under her covers?

all right, just thought i'd elevate the level of discourse a little, here.

She's really pretty.  The other day on The View (I know, I know) Elizabeth was saying that she is too pretty to be a spy.  ::)


I think she looks a lot like Donna Rice.  Remember her?

Don't be a Democrat and don't question anything this White House does, and you won't get hurt.  Ms. Plame forgot those simple rules. 

could we be more superficial in our commentary, please? i'd like to ask everyone to restrict themselves to making flippant comments about ms. plame's physical appearance.

let's keep it fake, people!

j/k.

actually, i'm listening to the hearings right now on c-span. damn, she's PISSED. and i totally don't blame her.

Well gee, if you're spying for your country, you expect that the country would have your back and do that disavowing of all knowledge thing AFTER you were caught...instead, she's doing her job all nice and stuff and now some idiot in the administration decides that she should be totally avowed etc...I'd be mad too.

Way to help your spies out!  :P

Oh yeah, she could probably distract me a bit before she crushed the life out of me with her thighs :P

Congressman Westmorland:

"Are you a Democrat or a Republican?"
"Congressman I don't think that question is...."
"I was given a list of questions I couldn't ask, and that wuddint one of 'em!"

Yup, Joe McCarthy rides again!

Congressman Westmorland:

"Are you a Democrat or a Republican?"
"Congressman I don't think that question is...."
"I was given a list of questions I couldn't ask, and that wuddint one of 'em!"

Yup, Joe McCarthy rides again!
ha! you're listening to, yeah? that just happened like ten minutes ago, if that.
turns out she's a democrat. didn't they say wilson voted for bush 41?

is totally hot.

http://images.washtimes.com/photos/full/20060904-115012-5895.jpg

who WOULDN'T wanna get under her covers?

all right, just thought i'd elevate the level of discourse a little, here.




Be careful. Kim Richards may get jealous.



Cat

Her hair is too crispy.  She needs to deep-condition or moisturize that.

Her hair is too crispy.  She needs to deep-condition or moisturize that isht. 

She's also got kind of a '70s Farrah Fawcett feather going there!
;D

I would do her,there's nothing hotter than a blond democrat who's name isn't Hilary!

I would do her
:o

i can almost picture it!

:o

i can almost picture it!

You or therehegoes?

You or therehegoes?
actually, for reasons i'd best not get into at the moment i'm picturing nally and scarlet johanson. oops.

After this she's gotta hit the lecture circuit with "The Valerie Monologues"!
:-\\

Oh yeah, she could probably distract me a bit before she crushed the life out of me with her thighs :P


You'd die a happy man!

You'd die a happy man!




That might flash through my head right before the arteries in my eyeballs burst :)

She's way too hot to be CIA.  So what was a professional distraction? ;D

She's way too hot to be CIA.  So what was a professional distraction? ;D


Oh come on, don't you remember all those James Bond movies?
8)

Oh come on, don't you remember all those James Bond movies?
8)


And they say Hollywood doesn't represent real life.

And they say Hollywood doesn't represent real life.


Exactly.  Most of what CIA operatives do day-in-day-out is tedious research and paperwork.  Not much the public would find intriguing.  But occasionally you get a Valerie Plame!

Hot just doesn't say it.  Its gotta be



  HOT HOT HOT HOT

It really just goes to show that, evan with all the patriotism talk, what really matters to this admin is power.  Karl Rove is the new Machiavelli.

I'll just say this, Joe Wilson (Val's husband) is one lucky guy.  ;)
Getting back to politics, whether she's Democrat or Republican is a moot point. The point is that Plame and her husband got a raw deal from the very same people that were responsible for protecting her identity. Karl Rove and Cheney, in general, should be doing hard time, even if Dubya pardons them in 2008. Everyone knows that Scooter Libby was only a fall guy.  

Hot just doesn't say it.  Its gotta be



  HOT HOT HOT HOT



Should I be jealous?



Cat

Her hair is too crispy.  She needs to deep-condition or moisturize that.


Amen!!

She shouldn't be a blonde anyway, brows are too dark.

It really just goes to show that, evan with all the patriotism talk, what really matters to this admin is power.  Karl Rove is the new Machiavelli.

No way, DC, I can't go with you on this one.  Niccolo Machiavelli was a Renaissance man---both literally and figuratively.  Macchiavelli was a political philosopher, musician, poet, and playwright.  Karl Rove is just a dirty crook. 

We often refer to "Frankenstein" when we mean Frankenstein's monster, not Dr. Frankenstein.  So it is with Machiavelli.  Rove would be flattered to be thought of as "The Prince," but he's really not exerting "Machiavellian" force in the political realm.  Rove only plies the dirty tricks an already-broken political system allows him to pull off.
::)

is totally hot.

http://images.washtimes.com/photos/full/20060904-115012-5895.jpg

who WOULDN'T wanna get under her covers?

all right, just thought i'd elevate the level of discourse a little, here.



I'd hit it...  ;)

Right after I gave her some hair conditioner.  She really has to do something about all that dry hair.  :P

To be fair, she probably hasn't had enough time to put in the Pantene after being chased by the spies who figured out her identity post-leak :D :D :D

Lesson for the kiddies....

If you're a democrat, are not a big fan of the president, working for the C.I.A., have a husband that works for the government, and a spy.......

Consider yourself out of a job.

::)

Lesson for the kiddies....

If you're a democrat, are not a big fan of the president, working for the C.I.A., have a husband that works for the government, and a spy.......

Consider yourself out of a job.

::)

She should have at least asked for desk job in Langley, and Joe could have started a landscaping business or something!
;D

She shouldn't be a blonde anyway, brows are too dark.


Now that you mention it, she has sort of a Dana Plato look going there...

ha! you're listening to, yeah? that just happened like ten minutes ago, if that.
turns out she's a democrat. didn't they say wilson voted for bush 41?



The are both democrats. They both contributed money to Clinton both campaigns. She even did so under her business affiliation. They both go to a lot of rallies for democrats. They are both high profile democrats,

(and wilson is a big fat liar to boot)

I'll just say this, Joe Wilson (Val's husband) is one lucky guy.  ;)
Getting back to politics, whether she's Democrat or Republican is a moot point. The point is that Plame and her husband got a raw deal from the very same people that were responsible for protecting her identity. Karl Rove and Cheney, in general, should be doing hard time, even if Dubya pardons them in 2008. Everyone knows that Scooter Libby was only a fall guy.  


A. None of that was proven at all.
B. It DOES matter that they are both BIG democrats in BIG ways
C. none of this would have come about if Wislon wasn't a big fat liar.
D. Everybody doesn't know that!
    In this country, by the way, you are innocent until proven guilty, which no one has done or will do in this case.

Well, unless you are a democrat, then you are innocent AFTER being proven guilty. Take your Senator "Leaky Leahy", for example. His leak got THREE people KILLED & he is in a leadership role in the senate, (and said he was guilty).... Hmmm.... admitted guilt w/three deaths and no found guilt, but the propagand pushing liberals 'wishful guilt' ...... I'd take the sure thing..

(other examples too but this one is the most like this case).

Is there actually a human being DEFENDING this administration re: Valerie Plame?  Holy mothballs.  Indy Gent was 100% spot on with that post.  Someone had to be the patsy for this effed-up administration and it's Scooter Libby.  Doesn't mean he's the only person with dirty hands. 

Is there actually a human being DEFENDING this administration re: Valerie Plame?  Holy mothballs.  Indy Gent was 100% spot on with that post.  Someone had to be the patsy for this effed-up administration and it's Scooter Libby.  Doesn't mean he's the only person with dirty hands. 


I guess you do not "get" the innocent before guilty thing huh? The media tried this case & you are one of those who bought into dispite the "innocence before guilt" thing our country has going on, (well, except for liberals).

Scooter wasn't charged with it, he was charged with lying, a bad memory etc., Wilson was a proven liar though.

There is NO evidence that Cheney did anything wrong. HOPING that the administration did & saying that they did, does not make it true, but it does help the democrat cause for the 2008 elections - pathetic.

(Noted = the things that you did not respond to)




 

Oh please.  I bet you also think this administration did all it could for the Katrina victims, too.  You know jack squat about all Liberals and if you could stop talking like you do, that would be super-duper.  My parents are Republicans and even THEY think this administration is full of liars. 

There is NO evidence that Cheney did anything wrong. 


Yeah, nothing is wrong with Cheney....except his aim.

Yeah, nothing is wrong with Cheney....except his aim.



Lewis Black had a great joke about that quail-hunting accident.  He likened it to the administration going after Iraq instead of Iran.  So picture Cheney pointing his gun at the quail and going "Iran, Iran, Iran, IRAQ!" as he shoots his friend in the face.  I need to find the YouTube clip of that.


Edit: http://youtube.com/watch?v=XcAMEPLhEtE


There you go.

Yeah, nothing is wrong with Cheney....except his aim.


Something about being a hypocrite too. 

I'm not even going to get into the gay marriage thing and his daughter Mary Cheney, that's for another thread.

Lewis Black had a great joke about that quail-hunting accident.  He likened it to the administration going after Iraq instead of Iran.  So picture Cheney pointing his gun at the quail and going "Iran, Iran, Iran, IRAQ!" as he shoots his friend in the face.  I need to find the YouTube clip of that.


Edit: http://youtube.com/watch?v=XcAMEPLhEtE


There you go.


I'm watching it right now. He's effing great. ;D



Something about being a hypocrite too. 

I'm not even going to get into the gay marriage thing and his daughter Mary Cheney, that's for another thread.


Yeah, you have that as well. I feel sorry for his daughter. :-\\

I'm watching it right now. He's effing great. ;D


Lewis Black is so ridiculously funny.  I don't mean to take the thread even further off-topic, but his special "Red White and Screwed" had me laughing so hard my stomach hurt.

Oh please.  I bet you also think this administration did all it could for the Katrina victims, too.  You know jack squat about all Liberals and if you could stop talking like you do, that would be super-duper.  My parents are Republicans and even THEY think this administration is full of liars. 


You know you use that same "Oh please" line a lot... I wondered, honey, if you thought about how offensive that can be used over and over... or even once! Think about it.

You know you use that same "Oh please" line a lot... I wondered, honey, if you thought about how offensive that can be used over and over... or even once! Think about it.





I wonder if you thought about how offensive it is when you constantly stereotype Liberals/Democrats and insult them or those who agree with some of the things they say.  Think about it. 


And that is a great segue into this:




Most smart people, when grown, change to Republican & leave the childish thinking of their liberal days... (if they were not Republican already).


Ah yes, because those who are Democrats or have Liberal leanings are not smart and are childish. 

Good for your parents, they are smart to be Republicans. Most smart people, when grown, change to Republican & leave the childish thinking of their liberal days... (if they were not Republican already). But if your parent's subcome to the drilling of negative opressive crap that they hear on the news or from far left wacko sites, then hey, what can I say?  If they think that the left is not jam=packed with liars, then they are not paying much attention to what is really going on.



Being a true conservative doesn't mean one has to be Republican or agree with the Republican platform/party line.  I am a registered Republican and see nothing positive about what this administration has done since they finally got rid of Saddam...even THAT was a stretch :P 

I wouldn't go so far as to blame Katrina on the Republicans though, but considering the gross mismanagement re: Iraq and the attempt to Biblize the country...ugh.  I'm proud to be conservative, but ashamed that the Republicans are considered "conservative" :P

You know you use that same "Oh please" line a lot... I wondered, honey, if you thought about how offensive that can be used over and over... or even once! Think about it.




In her defense the term "Oh please" is possibly the only polite way to deal with you. She's much to polite of a person to REALLY tell you what she thinks of your Conservative rants.

Being a true conservative doesn't mean one has to be Republican or agree with the Republican platform/party line.  I am a registered Republican and see nothing positive about what this administration has done since they finally got rid of Saddam...even THAT was a stretch :P 

I wouldn't go so far as to blame Katrina on the Republicans though, but considering the gross mismanagement re: Iraq and the attempt to Biblize the country...ugh.  I'm proud to be conservative, but ashamed that the Republicans are considered "conservative" :P



QFT.  You sound just like my parents.  And that's a good thing, don't worry. 



In her defense the term "Oh please" is possibly the only polite way to deal with you. She's much to polite of a person to REALLY tell you what she thinks of your Conservative rants.



Thanks, Kathie. 

I wonder if you thought about how offensive it is when you constantly stereotype Liberals/Democrats and insult them or those who agree with some of the things they say.  Think about it. 




Okay, I thought about it. I think you need more mirrors in your life.

Okay, I thought about it. I think you need more mirrors in your life.


I have plenty of mirrors.  One on my dresser, my compact, one in my bathroom....yup, I think that's enough.  But thank you for taking the time to worry about my reflective glass apparatuses and how many of them I have.  It's not every day you meet someone who cares enough to ask about them.

In her defense the term "Oh please" is possibly the only polite way to deal with you. She's much to polite of a person to REALLY tell you what she thinks of your Conservative rants.


That was beautiful. You get Karma.



I have plenty of mirrors.  One on my dresser, my compact, one in my bathroom....yup, I think that's enough.  But thank you for taking the time to worry about my reflective glass apparatuses and how many of them I have.  It's not every day you meet someone who cares enough to ask about them.


I just choked on my Guinness.

Is there actually a human being DEFENDING this administration re: Valerie Plame?  Holy mothballs.  Indy Gent was 100% spot on with that post.  Someone had to be the patsy for this effed-up administration and it's Scooter Libby.  Doesn't mean he's the only person with dirty hands. 


I don't see how you can.  Even if Cheney etc. weren't directly responsible for leaking the information and had incompetent aides, they really should have done more to plug up leaks and help their spy out in that regard.  Doesn't seem like anything like that happened.

In her defense the term "Oh please" is possibly the only polite way to deal with you. She's much to polite of a person to REALLY tell you what she thinks of your Conservative rants.


Well, at least one of us can be respectful because surly, the liberal democrat rants on this board are very noticable & extreme. I am at least nice enough not to say OH PLEASE after each of them...

No, but you are nice enough to say liberals are childish in thinking and need to become republicans.

No, but you are nice enough to say liberals are childish in thinking and need to become republicans.



I think so too - it is always good to help out when possible!

(and no, liberals do not need to become republicans - they just should)

Liberals shouldn't have to change parties just so people like you can say "Oh yes, they're smart now."  To hell with that nonsense.  If you think Liberals are stupid and in order for them to be smart in your eyes, they need to change party affiliations...well....I don't know why you think the way you do.  It's beyond insulting and demeaning.

Well, at least one of us can be respectful because surly, the liberal democrat rants on this board are very no ticable & extreme. I am at least nice enough not to say OH PLEASE after each of them...


Of course they're notable and extreme.  Just like your rants are uninspired and reek of a certain high strung blond conservative pungent in need of Thorazine.  As for the "Oh Please" you're a big girl . . . get over it. :)

Most smart people, when grown, change to Republican & leave the childish thinking of their liberal days... (if they were not Republican already). B
yeah, you can tell because the war is being run by such smart people.  ;D

i mean, really. when do we start actually judging the right by the results of its policies, instead of dishing out vague rhetoric? by whose accounting can things be said to be going well after six years with the genius republicans in charge?

Good for your parents, they are smart to be Republicans. Most smart people, when grown, change to Republican & leave the childish thinking of their liberal days... (if they were not Republican already). But if your parent's subcome to the drilling of negative oppressive crap that they hear on the news or from far left wacko sites, then hey, what can I say?  If they think that the left is not jam=packed with liars, then they are not paying much attention to what is really going on.



Is that a fact.  I was raised to believe that the Republican agenda was the only real political voice.  I idolized Regan and Neo-Conservatives like Pat Buchanan.  Then I got slapped with reality and the real world.  You are politically, where I was 10 years ago.  In other words there's hope for you yet. ;)

I think so too - it is always good to help out when possible!

(and no, liberals do not need to become republicans - they just should)




No they shouldn't.  The Republicans need to be kept in check by Democrats and vice versa.  A gross shift towards either extreme would be disastrous to this country.

Is that a fact.  I was raised to believe that the Republican agenda was the only real political voice.  I idolized Regan and Neo-Conservatives like Pat Buchanan.  Then I got slapped with reality and the real world.  You are politically, where I was 10 years ago.  In other words there's hope for you yet. ;)


Neo-Con = bad.  Regular conservatism (no capital!) is good :)

No they shouldn't.  The Republicans need to be kept in check by Democrats and vice versa.  A gross shift towards either extreme would be disastrous to this country.


A reminder of the Checks and Balances idealogy that we Americans hold so dear.  :)

Neo-Con = bad.  Regular conservatism (no capital!) is good :)


I agree.  But I was quite the Neo-con, before I was out on my own and started seeing "the other side".  A lot of it was I went from a comfortable middle-class environment, to living in a ghetto.  In that situation you can't help but reexamine  your way of thinking.

A. None of that was proven at all.
B. It DOES matter that they are both BIG democrats in BIG ways
C. none of this would have come about if Wislon wasn't a big fat liar.
D. Everybody doesn't know that!
    In this country, by the way, you are innocent until proven guilty, which no one has done or will do in this case.

Well, unless you are a democrat, then you are innocent AFTER being proven guilty. Take your Senator "Leaky Leahy", for example. His leak got THREE people KILLED & he is in a leadership role in the senate, (and said he was guilty).... Hmmm.... admitted guilt w/three deaths and no found guilt, but the propagand pushing liberals 'wishful guilt' ...... I'd take the sure thing..

(other examples too but this one is the most like this case).


What is this about Sen. Leahy? Enlighten me please because I have never heard anything about this.



Cat

What is this about Sen. Leahy? Enlighten me please because I have never heard anything about this.



Cat
Back in '87....HOWEVER, the information he "leaked" was not classified and obtainable by almost anyone......he was acquitted of any criminal/ethical wrongdoing.

Funny how all of the examples given thus far of democrats "lying" have no criminal convictions attached ???

yeah, you can tell because the war is being run by such smart people.  ;D

i mean, really. when do we start actually judging the right by the results of its policies, instead of dishing out vague rhetoric? by whose accounting can things be said to be going well after six years with the genius republicans in charge?


Since the left has done nothing but bitch for six years and made that their policy, I guess it is fair to say we can judge by that huh?

Go ahead, judge by some of Bush's policies.... 

I can answer your question with real facts...........

* Our economy has not been this good in over 3 decades. It's the strongest in the world, (the second in line would need to do three times better to catch up). Our economy is very strong, stronger than in the Clinton years....... fact

* Bush has the lowest unemployment average of any president in over 3 decades

* The national pay raise increase for all Americans is the second highest increase in history, second only to the year following world war two.

* Our country hasn't been attacked since 911 & we have caught or killed many many major terrorist leaders, (rather than ignoring them after four attacks and a declaration of war and then having sandy burger snatch the federal documents pertaining to Clinton and AQ and stuff them under his pants at least twice). We are fighting terrorism, despite of the cut and run democrat's plans

* More homes per capita have been purchased to first time buyers than in any time in history, by a landslide. * More minorities per capita have done so too, in an untouchable rate

· Crime is down considerably

* Our schools are turning out better results via the testing.. thanks to the three plans that were put in place by Bush and Laura – they are working!

* Our excess income, thanks to the booming economy and the refunds, is higher than in any time in history

etc etc........ ps doesn't your constant negativity really just get you down sometimes? Shouldn’t you just consider all the good things for a while and give yourself a break from the  negativity? Your call.

Since the left has done nothing but bitch for six years and made that their policy, I guess it is fair to say we can judge by that huh?

Go ahead, judge by some of Bush's policies.... 

I can answer your question with real facts...........

* Our economy has not been this good in over 3 decades. It's the strongest in the world, (the second in line would need to do three times better to catch up). Our economy is very strong, stronger than in the Clinton years....... fact

* Bush has the lowest unemployment average of any president in over 3 decades

* The national pay raise increase for all Americans is the second highest increase in history, second only to the year following world war two.

* Our country hasn't been attacked since 911 & we have caught or killed many many major terrorist leaders, (rather than ignoring them after four attacks and a declaration of war and then having sandy burger snatch the federal documents pertaining to Clinton and AQ and stuff them under his pants at least twice). We are fighting terrorism, despite of the cut and run democrat's plans

* More homes per capita have been purchased to first time buyers than in any time in history, by a landslide. * More minorities per capita have done so too, in an untouchable rate

· Crime is down considerably

* Our schools are turning out better results via the testing.. thanks to the three plans that were put in place by Bush and Laura – they are working!

* Our excess income, thanks to the booming economy and the refunds, is higher than in any time in history

etc etc........ ps doesn't your constant negativity really just get you down sometimes? Shouldn't you just consider all the good things for a while and give yourself a break from the  negativity? Your call.


You forgot the Deficit and the fact that the Feds are raising interest rates so fast it makes a person's head swim.

Lowest unemployment, why are big name companies setting up shop overseas?  Why are U.S. companies outsourcing to areas where they can get away with not paying workers health insurance?

The national pay raise increase is a crock of crap.  Minimum wage is now $8.00 an hour.  Try living on that, you can't.  Ever heard of Living Wages?

I'm a firm believer in the 911 conspiracy theory.  (Which is my right under protection of the Constitution)  Fighting terrorism, while making former allies enemies. 

What about the "Housing Bubble"?  Forclosures are at an all time high.

The "No Child Left Behind" puts a burdon on teachers who actually want to teach kids as individuals.  My Mom is a Bush supporter and a teacher, this is the only thing in the Bush administration she complains about.

Crimes may be down, but the types of crimes being committed these days are beyond  belief.

The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.  Doncha just love those  "Tax Breaks"?

I'm not being negative, I'm calling it as I see it.  Those rose colored glasses your wearing don't suit me.

You forgot the Deficit and the fact that the Feds are raising interest rates so fast it makes a person's head swim.

Lowest unemployment, why are big name companies setting up shop overseas?  Why are U.S. companies outsourcing to areas where they can get away with not paying workers health insurance?

The national pay raise increase is a crock of crap.  Minimum wage is now $8.00 an hour.  Try living on that, you can't.  Ever heard of Living Wages?

I'm a firm believer in the 911 conspiracy theory.  (Which is my right under protection of the Constitution)  Fighting terrorism, while making former allies enemies. 

What about the "Housing Bubble"?  Forclosures are at an all time high.

The "No Child Left Behind" puts a burdon on teachers who actually want to teach kids as individuals.  My Mom is a Bush supporter and a teacher, this is the only thing in the Bush administration she complains about.

Crimes may be down, but the types of crimes being committed these days are beyond  belief.

The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.  Doncha just love those  "Tax Breaks"?

I'm not being negative, I'm calling it as I see it.  Those rose colored glasses your wearing don't suit me.




http://emoticons4u.com/happy/1074.gif



Cat

You forgot the Deficit and the fact that the Feds are raising interest rates so fast it makes a person's head swim.

The interest rates are being rasied to prevent a recession, which, by the way, is what Clinton left us when he left office.


Lowest unemployment, why are big name companies setting up shop overseas?  Why are U.S. companies outsourcing to areas where they can get away with not paying workers health insurance?

Yes, the LOWEST unemployment! That's a GOOD THING! Some companies are having problems filling jobs. Do you think it is the health insurance that makes companies leave, by the way? Companies  have been leaving for decades, do you really know why?



The national pay raise increase is a crock of crap.  Minimum wage is now $8.00 an hour.  Try living on that, you can't.  Ever heard of Living Wages?

Obviously you do not know what I am talking about. The national pay increase has nothing to do with min. wage at all. It is the increase that companies all across the united states, big and small, have upped their employee's salaries. Companies are paying more to employees and the increase because of tax cuts etc., has skyrocketed to the second highest in history, like I said, second only to the year after WWII.



I'm a firm believer in the 911 conspiracy theory.  (Which is my right under protection of the Constitution)  Fighting terrorism, while making former allies enemies. 

Oh my goodness....... gad, I can't say anything to that other than it's utter nonsense.




The "No Child Left Behind" puts a burdon on teachers who actually want to teach kids as individuals.  My Mom is a Bush supporter and a teacher, this is the only thing in the Bush administration she complains about.

Nevertheless, it is working! Not only is that showing progress, but so is the inner city school programs that Laura designed and put in place. Teacher accountability may not be popular with teachers, but it is working. Our kids grades are going up - I guess it took that to do it. Bush supporter or not.



Crimes may be down, but the types of crimes being committed these days are beyond  belief.



Crimes ARE going down, not may be going down. And the rest of that is nonsense as well. Making up things to continue the negative in you really doesn't make them true... goodness!


The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.  Doncha just love those  "Tax Breaks"?

Yes I do! They have made the excess income so high, the unemployment rate down & the rich get richer poor get poorer thing is just out of the same old democrat playbook.  The poor for example, now have no taxes and tax credits. Tax credits, in case you do not know that either, are for when the family or person begins to make more money. When that happens, they have tax credits so they can start to get ahead rather than pay higher taxes when they make more. It helps them a long time and is really a good idea 7 I could not understand if you thought any differently there.
Tax breaks have made the economy stronger than in over 3 decades, that is a good thing... it's a snowball effect - a good thing, not a bad thing.
The democrats are against it becauase A. It is not their idea and B. It is working and they hate that the country see anything good happen while they are not in the white house and C. Democrats are for fixing problems with MORE taxes rather than fixing the issues with a stronger economy. They are the tax freaks & that makes it so people have less to spend and the busninesses can't afford more workers and the economy falls...... we are doing great now w/ the cuts, again, a good thing.
 


I'm not being negative, I'm calling it as I see it.  Those rose colored glasses your wearing don't suit me.


Being negative is calling everything good bad. It is being negative by habit & not seeing any good when there is a lot of good to be seen. To be negativwe just to build up the democrat party is what they want you to do. It works with those people who have glasses half empty in the first place or are too partisan to celebrate the good for our country for fear that it is bad for their own party... that's bad.

All though Clinton did leave us with a recession, along with a Welfare Reform Bill that forced the poor to become poorer.  Regan left with quite a deficit too.  Every president leaves the White House with some sort of deficit.

American Companies spend billions of dollars each year on employee Health Insurance.  What if they could go somewhere where they not only didn't have to pay that, or Workman's Comp and have a cheap labor force.  Companies have been leaving for decades, now with even more reason.

Oh, now I understand.  Yes, you are correct about the national pay raise.  So what do you think of the minimum wage verses Living Wages argument?

about the 911 conspiracy.  It is interesting.  Actually, I don't talk about 911 because I haven't heard enough information to make a proper judgement call.  This is not something to be ashamed of in other words I'm still looking for info.  B.T.W. my Cousin was in the Pentagon at the time of 911.

My Mother is all for teacher accountability.  What she doesn't like is how she is told by the government to teach kids with L.D.

Crime rate hasn't fallen.  I'd love to see your data to support that one.

The poor do pay taxes.  That waitress that makes $5 an hour +tips at your favorite restaurant pays taxes.  The working class pay taxes.  Of course Republican's have trained themselves not to think that because of the stereotype of working class/the poor vote Democrat. 

As for the negativity.  Bushes approval rating is proof, all is not well in the kingdom. 

As for the negativity.  Bushes approval rating is proof, all is not well in the kingdom. 



I don't know if Bush's approval rating could get any lower.  He might have to strangle a kitten on live TV or declare war on junk food.

I don't know if Bush's approval rating could get any lower.  He might have to strangle a kitten on live TV or declare war on junk food.
if he strangled a kitten on t.v. i might come around to him, actually.

if he strangled a kitten on t.v. i might come around to him, actually.



>:(

I don't know if Bush's approval rating could get any lower.  He might have to strangle a kitten on live TV or declare war on junk food.


The kitten thing might drop his rating, but people have already declared war on junk food so he might get some positives there :)

>:(
you some kinda kitten-lovin' liberal?

hey, everybody! electrophile is "soft" on kittens.

you some kinda kitten-lovin' liberal?

hey, everybody! electrophile is "soft" on kittens.



Yeah I am.  What's it to you?  You got a problem with kitten-loving liberals? 

I love puppies.

Yeah I am.  What's it to you?  You got a problem with kitten-loving liberals? 
just that youre playing right into al qaeda's strategy.

if you ride with kittens, you ride with osama.

Back on topic...

Whoever leaked the spy info probably did it because he knew it was the closest he would ever get to actually screwing Valerie Plame.

*BadaBUM*

i was yucking it up about valerie plame with my gay republican client at work today and busted out my "i wanna get under her covers" line. being gay and conservative, miguel is resistant to ms. plame's charms, however.

just that youre playing right into al qaeda's strategy.

if you ride with kittens, you ride with osama.


That is so UN-American.  It ranks up there with the A.C.L.U. and Volvo.

i was yucking it up about valerie plame with my gay republican client at work today and busted out my "i wanna get under her covers" line. being gay and conservative, miguel is resistant to ms. plame's charms, however.


I think it might mostly be the gay part rather than the conservative part. 

That is so UN-American.  It ranks up there with the A.C.L.U. and Volvo.
and lattes! and puppies.

I think it might mostly be the gay part rather than the conservative part. 



;D

and lattes! and puppies.


Starbucks and Chow Chow puppies!!! :o

That's it.  Don't you dis Starbucks, or it's on biatch.

That's it.  Don't you dis Starbucks, or it's on biatch.


*spaceace tried to hide behind Rush Limbaugh*  :P

I have an appreciation for their Breakfast Blend.

*spaceace tried to hide behind Rush Limbaugh*  :P


Did you have to take two buses and a train?

Did you have to take two buses and a train?
is it true that if you walk around rush, you gain an hour?

is it true that if you walk around rush, you gain an hour?


I think you may have to approach the speed of light to do that...my physics is really rusty :P

Did you have to take two buses and a train?


Well, I tried calling him first to see if his girth was available for defense purposes.  He asked me if I was a LIBERAL DEMOCRAT, I said yes.  He hung up on me.  So much for being the warm fuzzy nice guy he claims to be. >:(

Well, I tried calling him first to see if his girth was available for defense purposes.  He asked me if I was a LIBERAL DEMOCRAT, I said yes.  He hung up on me.  So much for being the warm fuzzy nice guy he claims to be. >:(


Probably the oxycontin.  Give him a few hours.

Probably the oxycontin.  Give him a few hours.


By that time I would have all ready had my butt kicked.

By that time I would have all ready had my butt kicked.


Oh.  Well, maybe you should've called Ann Coulter instead, she would've flown in and protected you with her batwings.

Oh.  Well, maybe you should've called Ann Coulter instead, she would've flown in and protected you with her batwings.


Perhaps I should.  With her combination batwings, high pitched shriek, I think I'll live to see tomorrow!!! :)

Perhaps I should.  With her combination batwings, high pitched shriek, I think I'll live to see tomorrow!!! :)


Maybe you could also call in Al Gore to bore your enemies to death too.

Maybe you could also call in Al Gore to bore your enemies to death too.


No Al Gore will do me no good.  You can't fight a liberal with another liberal. (No matter how boring he is)

No Al Gore will do me no good.  You can't fight a liberal with another liberal. (No matter how boring he is)


Yeah you can, it's like magnetism, like repels like.  Therefore Al Gore's girth will repel the onslaught of liberalism heading your way!

Awww, I like Al.  He's boring, but I love the passion he has for the environment and the need for us to do more work for it.

Yeah you can, it's like magnetism, like repels like.  Therefore Al Gore's girth will repel the onslaught of liberalism heading your way!


For once I try to make a Right Wing statement only to find I need the former Vice President to protect me.  Heck bring Tipper too!!!  She can nag anyone into surrender.

Awww, I like Al.  He's boring, but I love the passion he has for the environment and the need for us to do more work for it.


In that case, he should buy me the hybrid car so I won't have to sell my soul for one :D

The interest rates are being rasied to prevent a recession, which, by the way, is what Clinton left us when he left office. Which is what's causing the number of foreclosures to TRIPLE in some areas.  Oh, and I'd like to see one who doesn't.

Yes, the LOWEST unemployment! That's a GOOD THING! Some companies are having problems filling jobs. Do you think it is the health insurance that makes companies leave, by the way? Companies  have been leaving for decades, do you really know why?
Yes, because they can go overseas, pay the workers there a fraction of what they would pay Americans, less taxes, no health insurance, etc. why WOULDN'T they?

Obviously you do not know what I am talking about. The national pay increase has nothing to do with min. wage at all. It is the increase that companies all across the united states, big and small, have upped their employee's salaries. Companies are paying more to employees and the increase because of tax cuts etc., has skyrocketed to the second highest in history, like I said, second only to the year after WWII. What companies?  My husband works for a Fortune 500 company and hasn't gotten a pay increase in 2 years. 

Nevertheless, it is working! Not only is that showing progress, but so is the inner city school programs that Laura designed and put in place. Teacher accountability may not be popular with teachers, but it is working. Our kids grades are going up - I guess it took that to do it. Bush supporter or not. Not in all areas.  Thanks to NCLB, LD programs are being cut all across the country and schools that were horrible before, who have improved, but not quite "made it" have lost federal funding.  Even the govt is admitting it's a joke, that's why it's being "revamped".


Yes I do! They have made the excess income so high, the unemployment rate down & the rich get richer poor get poorer thing is just out of the same old democrat playbook.  The poor for example, now have no taxes and tax credits. Tax credits, in case you do not know that either, are for when the family or person begins to make more money. When that happens, they have tax credits so they can start to get ahead rather than pay higher taxes when they make more. It helps them a long time and is really a good idea 7 I could not understand if you thought any differently there. No taxes?  In what country?  All I know is that since the "tax breaks", my income tax refund keeps going down, regardless of whether my husband makes more or less than he did before the breaks (we're still in the same tax bracket).  Also, since then, we've built a second (vacation) house, sold stock for a capital LOSS, and our refund STILL is going down. 

Maybe you could also call in Al Gore to bore your enemies to death too.

Al----Gore----Is----Not----Boring, mmmmkay?
;)


Oh.  Well, maybe you should've called Ann Coulter instead, she would've flown in and protected you with her batwings.

Watch it, Fred Sanford!


My husband works for a Fortune 500 company and hasn't gotten a pay increase in 2 years. 
Well, dat don't sound too fortunate for him 'den, eh?

---Sven Olaffsson
Fargo, ND

Al----Gore----Is----Not----Boring, mmmmkay?
;)
Watch it, Fred Sanford!
Well, dat don't sound too fortunate for him 'den, eh?

---Sven Olaffsson
Fargo, ND


The Oscars doesn't invite boring people.!!!!

I guess the whole income increase goes to the fortune 100.  (It doesn't hurt if they're own by publicans either)

Since the left has done nothing but bitch for six years and made that their policy, I guess it is fair to say we can judge by that huh?

Go ahead, judge by some of Bush's policies.... 

I can answer your question with real facts...........

* Our economy has not been this good in over 3 decades. It's the strongest in the world, (the second in line would need to do three times better to catch up). Our economy is very strong, stronger than in the Clinton years....... fact

* Bush has the lowest unemployment average of any president in over 3 decades

* The national pay raise increase for all Americans is the second highest increase in history, second only to the year following world war two.

* Our country hasn't been attacked since 911 & we have caught or killed many many major terrorist leaders, (rather than ignoring them after four attacks and a declaration of war and then having sandy burger snatch the federal documents pertaining to Clinton and AQ and stuff them under his pants at least twice). We are fighting terrorism, despite of the cut and run democrat's plans

* More homes per capita have been purchased to first time buyers than in any time in history, by a landslide. * More minorities per capita have done so too, in an untouchable rate

· Crime is down considerably

* Our schools are turning out better results via the testing.. thanks to the three plans that were put in place by Bush and Laura – they are working!

* Our excess income, thanks to the booming economy and the refunds, is higher than in any time in history

etc etc........ ps doesn't your constant negativity really just get you down sometimes? Shouldn’t you just consider all the good things for a while and give yourself a break from the  negativity? Your call.




You forgot the Deficit and the fact that the Feds are raising interest rates so fast it makes a person's head swim.

Lowest unemployment, why are big name companies setting up shop overseas?  Why are U.S. companies outsourcing to areas where they can get away with not paying workers health insurance?

The national pay raise increase is a crock of crap.  Minimum wage is now $8.00 an hour.  Try living on that, you can't.  Ever heard of Living Wages?

I'm a firm believer in the 911 conspiracy theory.  (Which is my right under protection of the Constitution)  Fighting terrorism, while making former allies enemies. 

What about the "Housing Bubble"?  Forclosures are at an all time high.

The "No Child Left Behind" puts a burdon on teachers who actually want to teach kids as individuals.  My Mom is a Bush supporter and a teacher, this is the only thing in the Bush administration she complains about.

Crimes may be down, but the types of crimes being committed these days are beyond  belief.

The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.  Doncha just love those  "Tax Breaks"?

I'm not being negative, I'm calling it as I see it.  Those rose colored glasses your wearing don't suit me.



Just to add a few "facts" to what spaceace posted, and then an observation:

Yes, our economy, thanks to foreign holders of our national debt, is doing ok...if you are rich.  If not, you are either getting by, or going down the toilet, as many middle class people are.

Do you know what "unemployment" stats count?  One would think they counted the number of people without jobs who wanted one.  NOT SO.  They count the number of people receiving unemployment compensation.  When tour unemployment runs out, you are dropped for the stats even if you still don't have a job.  And, of those who have found jobs, how many greet their clients by saying "welcome to Wal-Mart" or "want fries with that?"  The fact is that access to good paying jobs is down, down, down as our industrial base is eroded by industrial flight (do the name Halliburton ring a bell?).  Even the high tech "service jobs" that were hailed as the wave of  the future are moving off shore (call your "local" computer support ### and check out the Indian accents).

Averages, including the “national pay raise” average, are based on the aggregate. If 20,000,000 people get no pay raise, and 500 top execs get a 500% pay raise, the average will, of course go up, but the 20,000,000 are still in the same boat. In fat, they are lost due to inflation.

As to killing terrorist, we may have gotten some and we may not. Yes, we have not been attacked on home soil since 9/11, but there is little doubt that we are still vulnerable. Our harbors are certainly not secure. Our airports are not secure and where is Osama Bin Forgotten? I call it luck, not the war in Iraq.  In fact, most commontators agree that Iraq was not a sanctuary for terrorists until after the invasion.  Don't get me wrong - I'm not admirerer of Saddam, but since when has overthrowing dictators been our national mission in life?  There is a foto of Mr Rumsfeld greeting Saddam with a big grin on his face, and do the name Augusto Pinochet ring a bell? 

Yes, lots of people who really couldn't afford to buy got sucked into the sub-prime mortgage  scam.  Agents get commissions for sales, paid by the seller.  Brokers got commissions for deals made.  Leanders sold those mortgages to investors - sounds like a pyramid scheme to me.  And now, with those adjustable interest rates going up, and home values going down, as Spaceace says, foreclosute rates are going through the roof.  It was a fake boom, and hopefully, this sub-prime market will get regulated, because, win, place, or showe, its alweays the little guy who gets it from behind.

I find it hard to understand how Mrers Bush and company can take credit for a decline in the crime rate, which, by the way, is dubious.  Some crimes are down, others are up, and it depends on where you look.  On the same token, given the convictions of Duke Cunningham, Bob Nay, and Scooter, and the shadow over Tom DeLay, Mark Foley, and now Alberto Gonzalez and Karl Rove, I find it hard to believe that Republicans are still claiming to be the "law and order" party.

As the President of the college where I used to teach put it "no child left untested" - but from what I have been reading it seems that the tests "aint" the same all over.  Some states are using harder tests that others.  Is this a bureaucratic "crib sheet" stunt?

I'm not sure what "excess income" means, and have never heard any economic analysis that refered to such a statistic, but the economic analysies coming out of both the Vermont gov't and advocacy groups in state suggest that at least here, most famalies suffer from a dearth of income.  Their rents or mortgages are to high a % for them to lead an affordabole life.  So sure, if you're Bill Gates you have lots of what I would call excess income, and I guess his, and those like him - the Donald etc - compensate for those of us who get by or struggle.

Ok.  Some much for trading "facts".  A Bush partisan can always produce "facts" to make him look good, and a critique can refute them, ad infinitum, and neither will convince the other.  And maybe, so it should be, so stick to your guns iterhune, and you too spacesace.  What irkes me is the suiggestion that we critics opf the "fool on the hill" are somehow unpatriotic, or that we are Bush haters.  I assure you that I have no personal animosity against that little man, nore against the operatives that guide him.  My anger is directed at the damage they are doing to our democray and to thev world.  If my concerns are concidered unpatriotic bt some, so be it.

Many thanks Carlos for that scholarly overview.  Coming from a man of your background I'm flattered. :)

Just to add a few "facts" to what spaceace posted, and then an observation:

Yes, our economy, thanks to foreign holders of our national debt, is doing ok...if you are rich.  If not, you are either getting by, or going down the toilet, as many middle class people are.

Do you know what "unemployment" stats count?  One would think they counted the number of people without jobs who wanted one.  NOT SO.  They count the number of people receiving unemployment compensation.  When tour unemployment runs out, you are dropped for the stats even if you still don't have a job.  And, of those who have found jobs, how many greet their clients by saying "welcome to Wal-Mart" or "want fries with that?"  The fact is that access to good paying jobs is down, down, down as our industrial base is eroded by industrial flight (do the name Halliburton ring a bell?).  Even the high tech "service jobs" that were hailed as the wave of  the future are moving off shore (call your "local" computer support ### and check out the Indian accents).

Averages, including the “national pay raise” average, are based on the aggregate. If 20,000,000 people get no pay raise, and 500 top execs get a 500% pay raise, the average will, of course go up, but the 20,000,000 are still in the same boat. In fat, they are lost due to inflation.

As to killing terrorist, we may have gotten some and we may not. Yes, we have not been attacked on home soil since 9/11, but there is little doubt that we are still vulnerable. Our harbors are certainly not secure. Our airports are not secure and where is Osama Bin Forgotten? I call it luck, not the war in Iraq.  In fact, most commontators agree that Iraq was not a sanctuary for terrorists until after the invasion.  Don't get me wrong - I'm not admirerer of Saddam, but since when has overthrowing dictators been our national mission in life?  There is a foto of Mr Rumsfeld greeting Saddam with a big grin on his face, and do the name Augusto Pinochet ring a bell? 

Yes, lots of people who really couldn't afford to buy got sucked into the sub-prime mortgage  scam.  Agents get commissions for sales, paid by the seller.  Brokers got commissions for deals made.  Leanders sold those mortgages to investors - sounds like a pyramid scheme to me.  And now, with those adjustable interest rates going up, and home values going down, as Spaceace says, foreclosute rates are going through the roof.  It was a fake boom, and hopefully, this sub-prime market will get regulated, because, win, place, or showe, its alweays the little guy who gets it from behind.

I find it hard to understand how Mrers Bush and company can take credit for a decline in the crime rate, which, by the way, is dubious.  Some crimes are down, others are up, and it depends on where you look.  On the same token, given the convictions of Duke Cunningham, Bob Nay, and Scooter, and the shadow over Tom DeLay, Mark Foley, and now Alberto Gonzalez and Karl Rove, I find it hard to believe that Republicans are still claiming to be the "law and order" party.

As the President of the college where I used to teach put it "no child left untested" - but from what I have been reading it seems that the tests "aint" the same all over.  Some states are using harder tests that others.  Is this a bureaucratic "crib sheet" stunt?

I'm not sure what "excess income" means, and have never heard any economic analysis that refered to such a statistic, but the economic analysies coming out of both the Vermont gov't and advocacy groups in state suggest that at least here, most famalies suffer from a dearth of income.  Their rents or mortgages are to high a % for them to lead an affordabole life.  So sure, if you're Bill Gates you have lots of what I would call excess income, and I guess his, and those like him - the Donald etc - compensate for those of us who get by or struggle.

Ok.  Some much for trading "facts".  A Bush partisan can always produce "facts" to make him look good, and a critique can refute them, ad infinitum, and neither will convince the other.  And maybe, so it should be, so stick to your guns iterhune, and you too spacesace.  What irkes me is the suiggestion that we critics opf the "fool on the hill" are somehow unpatriotic, or that we are Bush haters.  I assure you that I have no personal animosity against that little man, nore against the operatives that guide him.  My anger is directed at the damage they are doing to our democray and to thev world.  If my concerns are concidered unpatriotic bt some, so be it.
O0

Speaking of Halliburton...

That company is the fullfilment of both the promises of the military-industrial complex and the global economy.  They can move their headquarters to Dubai, contribute nothing to the American economy, and reap untold profits from U.S. taxpayers and not be held accountable for contracts they bungle.  Meanwhile, I have to overhear my co-workers bellyaching about some Peurto Rican with five welfare cards!

Blackwater Security is even more sinister.  This is a paramilitary mercenary force headed by evangelical Republicans.  I've used the term christo-fascist before.  Blackwater is it.  Mercenaries working for Blackwater make 10 times what a U.S. military soldier makes in Iraq.  Blackwater is also setting up shop domestically.  If we do not kill what Dick Cheney started, Blackwater will soon have the power to arrest and detain U.S. citizens free from any constraints of the justice system or the U.S. constitution.  Writ of habeas corpus?  Forget about it!
:o

Speaking of Halliburton...

That company is the fullfilment of both the promises of the military-industrial complex and the global economy.  They can move their headquarters to Dubai, contribute nothing to the American economy, and reap untold profits from U.S. taxpayers and not be held accountable for contracts they bungle.  Meanwhile, I have to overhear my co-workers bellyaching about some Peurto Rican with five welfare cards!

Blackwater Security is even more sinister.  This is a paramilitary mercenary force headed by evangelical Republicans.  I've used the term christo-fascist before.  Blackwater is it.  Mercenaries working for Blackwater make 10 times what a U.S. military soldier makes in Iraq.  Blackwater is also setting up shop domestically.  If we do not kill what Dick Cheney started, Blackwater will soon have the power to arrest and detain U.S. citizens free from any constraints of the justice system or the U.S. constitution.  Writ of habeas corpus?  Forget about it!
:o



There was something on CNN last night about the "figures" with Iraq. At the start of the war, Dubya's approval rating was high, casualty rates were low and Halliburton's stock was about $10 a share. As the war progressed, Dubya's approval rating dropped, casualty rates increased and you can guess how Halliburton's stock did. Right now, the stock sits at about $35 a share. Talk about war profiteering.



Cat

There is a foto of Mr Rumsfeld greeting Saddam with a big grin on his face, and do the name Augusto Pinochet ring a bell? 


Since you mentioned it, I have to say, Pinochet has been on my mind too. A lot of his case seems to be manifesting itself repeatedly, as if we've truly not learned from those who have come before.

There was something on CNN last night about the "figures" with Iraq. At the start of the war, Dubya's approval rating was high, casualty rates were low and Halliburton's stock was about $10 a share. As the war progressed, Dubya's approval rating dropped, casualty rates increased and you can guess how Halliburton's stock did. Right now, the stock sits at about $35 a share. Talk about war profiteering.



Cat


"We're only in it for the money...."

--Frank Zappa and the Mothers

Since you mentioned it, I have to say, Pinochet has been on my mind too. A lot of his case seems to be manifesting itself repeatedly, as if we've truly not learned from those who have come before.


Beginning with the Cuban revolution, and through the '80s or so, we use to say that U.S. foreign policy was designed to keep the world ssafe for Coca Cola, and to do so we would support any dictator who could afford a pair of sun glasses.  Not much has changed.