And Tim Hardaway displays his off the record intelligence by saying "I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States."  Because, aparently, the United States is not in the world.  After reading this article, I am more than amazed that John didn't lose all control and rape every single one of his teammates while they were in the locker room.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6473866?MSNHPHCP&GT1=9131

Apologize all you want, Tim.  You said it, and you meant it.   >:(

And Tim Hardaway displays his off the record intelligence by saying "I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States."  Because, aparently, the United States is not in the world.  After reading this article, I am more than amazed that John didn't lose all control and rape every single one of his teammates while they were in the locker room.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6473866?MSNHPHCP&GT1=9131

Apologize all you want, Tim.  You said it, and you meant it.   >:(


I heard about his tirade earlier today. I didn't hear about his half assed apology though. Stoopid. ::)

Now, I know nothing about basketball, but I'll bet my bottom dollar that Hardaway has played with numerous gay fellas and not had any idea.

Stupid as it may be, at least he had the cajones to be honest about it. Most heterosexual men (or people period) will say the same thing except it's said in their heads and not aloud.

Stupid as it may be, at least he had the cajones to be honest about it. Most heterosexual men (or people period) will say the same thing except it's said in their heads and not aloud.


Good point.

I think there's a clear definition a lot of straight men make.

Me personally, I think like this - If you're gay.. whatever, that's fine, keep it to yourself, I don't want, or need to know. I don't care about seeing two dudes holding hands walkin down the street, however two guys kissing, UUURRGGHH!

So Tim thinks gays shouldn't be in the world or in the United States?  Or was he saying that gays shouldn't be playing basketball, both world-wide and in the United States? 


Either way, it's an utterly despicable thing to say.

Stupid as it may be, at least he had the cajones to be honest about it. Most heterosexual men (or people period) will say the same thing except it's said in their heads and not aloud.


As a heterosexual man I would not say the same thing, and I do not think the same thing as Hardaway.  Maybe Hardaway is the one who really likes it the hard way!
:D

Two reasons we all refrain from saying just anything that pops into our heads:
1. Social grace.
2. Self-preservation.

Reminds me of a George Carlin sketch about getting pulled over by the cops:
"...tear it up and throw it at his feet.  Say 'F**k you and your ticket too!'"
Yeah, I'd like to say that...
;D

Anyway,  I thought they were saying "Don Ameche."
http://www.nndb.com/people/736/000024664/don-ameche-sized.jpg
Little late for that, isn't it?

I'm comfortable with my sexuality. Provided that opening quote in the article is true, Tim Hardaway obviously isn't comfortable with his.

"Yes, I regret it. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said I hate gay people or anything like that," he said. "That was my mistake."

^ Lamest apology I have ever read.

I can't understand why he even bothered to apologize. a man should never apologize for the way he feels.
Right, wrong or indifferent, it's how he feels. He shouldn't have used a public forum to express his feelings
but once they were out there he should stand by his words. I'd rather see him stand by his convictions and
be raked over the coals than to hear him offer up a shallow, meaningless apology just to appease the masses.

"Yes, I regret it. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said I hate gay people or anything like that," he said. "That was my mistake."

^ Lamest apology I have ever read.



He sounds like a little boy who got caught cheating on a test and had to admit it to the class.  Pathetic.

Comments like this make me wonder if he's (Hardaway) on the "down lo"?  It seems that the people who are most vehemently opposed to homosexuality are either religious or gay (or both) ;)

Comments like this make me wonder if he's (Hardaway) on the "down lo"?  It seems that the people who are most vehemently opposed to homosexuality are either religious or gay (or both) ;)


Religiously gay? :D

Religiously gay? :D



Yeah, like Ted Haggard.

Religiously gay? :D


Karma +1



Yeah, like Ted Haggard.


Sorry, I can't karma you again today.


Stupid as it may be, at least he had the cajones to be honest about it. Most heterosexual men (or people period) will say the same thing except it's said in their heads and not aloud.


True, but he lost them with that PC retraction/lame apology.

I've known a few guys who were anti-homosexual, and I told them this: "If every guy in the world except yourself was gay, you'd get a lot more action with the ladies, yes?"

Regardless of if it is flawed logic, most guys realized what I was getting at.

Sorry, I can't karma you again today.


That's okay......I'll karma you instead.  :)

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2007-02-15-hardaway_x.htm?csp=34

Looks like he has been punished by the NBA.
He has been removed from All-Star weekend by Commissioner David Stern.




Comments like this make me wonder if he's (Hardaway) on the "down lo"?  It seems that the people who are most vehemently opposed to homosexuality are either religious or gay (or both) ;)


Religiously gay? :D



Yeah, like Ted Haggard.


Karma all around.

Hardaway said he regretted his remarks, yet he put so much thought into them...probably more thought than he puts into anything else!

If he'd just said to a passing reporter, "I don't like Amaechi, he's a f@g!," then I might buy the "regret" part, but the way he deliberated on it sentence after sentence....
And how many people say, "I'm a homophobe!"
::)

As a heterosexual man I would not say the same thing, and I do not think the same thing as Hardaway.  Maybe Hardaway is the one who really likes it the hard way!
:D

Two reasons we all refrain from saying just anything that pops into our heads:
1. Social grace.
2. Self-preservation.

Reminds me of a George Carlin sketch about getting pulled over by the cops:
"...tear it up and throw it at his feet.  Say 'F**k you and your ticket too!'"
Yeah, I'd like to say that...
;D

Anyway,  I thought they were saying "Don Ameche."
http://www.nndb.com/people/736/000024664/don-ameche-sized.jpg
Little late for that, isn't it?


Max, I said most. You are clearly not in that grouping, lol

If there was a gay man on my hockey team I wouldn't be too happy about having to shower with him.

He'd have to get his own seperate shower room.

If there was a gay man on my hockey team I wouldn't be too happy about having to shower with him.

He'd have to get his own seperate shower room.


When I play Rugby, we're all in real close physical contact and afterwards, because everyone is real muddy, it's in to the showers.
Now.. if there was a gay guy on the team (I dunno if there is or not) I'd be a bit weirded out if he was walking around staring at everyones stuff, but if he was just washing the mud off, it wouldn't be a big deal.

If there was a gay man on my hockey team I wouldn't be too happy about having to shower with him.

He'd have to get his own seperate shower room.


That seems kinda sad to me. It sounds like you're afraid that he'll be checking out your goods and stuff instead of just doing what he's supposed to be. Why do most straight men think like that? Not every gay man is looking at other men and thinking, "BUTTSECKS!" And what if he's never mentioned that he was gay? How are you going to tell? The majority of gay men aren't flaming queens who mince around talking with a lisp.

I'm probably not explaining myself very well, but your statement is just weirdness to me. And no, if I had to shower with lesbians, I wouldn't ask for separate arrangements. We're there to shower and get dressed after participating in a sport, nothing more.

That seems kinda sad to me. It sounds like you're afraid that he'll be checking out your goods and stuff instead of just doing what he's supposed to be. Why do most straight men think like that? Not every gay man is looking at other men and thinking, "BUTTSECKS!" And what if he's never mentioned that he was gay? How are you going to tell? The majority of gay men aren't flaming queens who mince around talking with a lisp.

I'm probably not explaining myself very well, but your statement is just weirdness to me. And no, if I had to shower with lesbians, I wouldn't ask for separate arrangements. We're there to shower and get dressed after participating in a sport, nothing more.


I was thinking pretty much this exact same thing.
Since I have quite a few gay male friends, I have asked them before if they do check out other men all the time. (I am ignorant to the situation) Almost all of them have said that it is a superficial notion that straight men have. Most (not all) straight men think they are "all that" so in their minds eye, why wouldn't a gay man be checking them out. My friend Trevor says that the reality is - 1) most gay men know if other men are gay or not, 2) why would they put themselves out there by looking at other men, knowing full well that gay-bashing is still alive and kicking - they don't want to get beat down by their so-called teammates and friends, and 3) not all gay men are sex-crazed maniacs who only think about what other mens packages look like nor do they want them.


If there was a gay man on my hockey team I wouldn't be too happy about having to shower with him.

He'd have to get his own seperate shower room.


Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and views, but the idea of them having to have their own shower room to me destroys years of progress in racism and segregation.

3) not all gay men are sex-crazed maniacs who only think about what other mens packages look like nor do they want them.

Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and views, but the idea of them having to have their own shower room to me destroys years of progress in racism and segregation.


Not all hetero men think that way about women. Would you feel comfortable showering with them? It's not just a gay thing. I wouldn't feel comfortable showering with women either.

Destroys years of progress in racism and segregation? We're not talking about "colored" and "whites" bathrooms here. We segregate men from women for sexual reasons all of the time. Why is this different?

Not all hetero men think that way about women. Would you feel comfortable showering with them? It's not just a gay thing. I wouldn't feel comfortable showering with women either.

Destroys years of progress in racism and segregation? We're not talking about "colored" and "whites" bathrooms here. We segregate men from women for sexual reasons all of the time. Why is this different?



Of course I wouldn't feel comfortable showering with men, other than my husband. That's a good point, one I hadn't thought of.

Segregating men and women in showers is more or less done so in order to not promote sexual misconduct. (Rape, assault, sex etc) But telling gay men or women that they are no longer allowed to shower with their respective sex because they are gay is prejudiced and racist. Are they suddenly sexual predators?  When we go to gyms or public restrooms, we look for the signs that say "Men" or "Women". I would be appalled and enraged if I saw a sign that said "Gays". (Correction - I suppose it would say "Gay Men" and "Gay Women", in which case there will just always have to be tons of restrooms and showers etc for fear yet again of sexual misconduct by the same sex.) If it were to come to that then it would set us back years! Not to mention the outcry from that respective group of individuals.
That is why imho it will destroy years of progress.

When I play Rugby, we're all in real close physical contact and afterwards, because everyone is real muddy, it's in to the showers.
Now.. if there was a gay guy on the team (I dunno if there is or not) I'd be a bit weirded out if he was walking around staring at everyones stuff, but if he was just washing the mud off, it wouldn't be a big deal.

Thought that's why guys played rugby and stuff.
;)

If there was a gay man on my hockey team I wouldn't be too happy about having to shower with him.

He'd have to get his own seperate shower room.




That seems kinda sad to me. It sounds like you're afraid that he'll be checking out your goods and stuff instead of just doing what he's supposed to be. Why do most straight men think like that? Not every gay man is looking at other men and thinking, "BUTTSECKS!" And what if he's never mentioned that he was gay? How are you going to tell? The majority of gay men aren't flaming queens who mince around talking with a lisp.

I'm probably not explaining myself very well, but your statement is just weirdness to me. And no, if I had to shower with lesbians, I wouldn't ask for separate arrangements. We're there to shower and get dressed after participating in a sport, nothing more.




I was thinking pretty much this exact same thing.
Since I have quite a few gay male friends, I have asked them before if they do check out other men all the time. (I am ignorant to the situation) Almost all of them have said that it is a superficial notion that straight men have. Most (not all) straight men think they are "all that" so in their minds eye, why wouldn't a gay man be checking them out. My friend Trevor says that the reality is - 1) most gay men know if other men are gay or not, 2) why would they put themselves out there by looking at other men, knowing full well that gay-bashing is still alive and kicking - they don't want to get beat down by their so-called teammates and friends, and 3) not all gay men are sex-crazed maniacs who only think about what other mens packages look like nor do they want them.

Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and views, but the idea of them having to have their own shower room to me destroys years of progress in racism and segregation.




Of course I wouldn't feel comfortable showering with men, other than my husband. That's a good point, one I hadn't thought of.

Segregating men and women in showers is more or less done so in order to not promote sexual misconduct. (Rape, assault, sex etc) But telling gay men or women that they are no longer allowed to shower with their respective sex because they are gay is prejudiced and racist. Are they suddenly sexual predators?  When we go to gyms or public restrooms, we look for the signs that say "Men" or "Women". I would be appalled and enraged if I saw a sign that said "Gays". (Correction - I suppose it would say "Gay Men" and "Gay Women", in which case there will just always have to be tons of restrooms and showers etc for fear yet again of sexual misconduct by the same sex.) If it were to come to that then it would set us back years! Not to mention the outcry from that respective group of individuals.
That is why imho it will destroy years of progress.




I can't say it better than you two have.  What a horrible line of thinking.  If I was part of a sports team and we were showering, and one of the women was a lesbian......big deal.  Why should I care?  Why should you care?  Do you think the guy is going to come up to you and grab your junk or something?

Once again, I could not care less.  He is gay, whoopee!

Once again, I could not care less.  He is gay, whoopee!



Question:  If you don't care when someone announces they're gay, why do you come to the thread that inevitably springs up....just to say that you don't care?    We know you don't care about peoples' sexual orientations.

Once again, I could not care less.  He is gay, whoopee!

I think most people agree with you about Amaechi.  Nowadays it's not a big deal to anyone except the fear-mongers on the far Right.  However, even the FOX News guys are vigorously condemning Hardaway.  Hardaway is the issue, not Amaechi.

Maybe Hardaway can become Fred Phelps' bodyguard!

Question:  If you don't care when someone announces they're gay, why do you come to the thread that inevitably springs up....just to say that you don't care?    We know you don't care about peoples' sexual orientations.


Probably because every time somebody "comes out of the closet", people seem to think it needs to be posted in here.  And I really see it as a non-issue.

I do not classify people by their sexual preferences.  And I find it asanine to try and do that.  It would be like Hillary Clinton announcing she was female, or George Takei announcing he is of Japanese descent. 

In short, I really don't see how it matters.  The person in question is still human.  And that is all I really care about.  It is none of my concern or interest who they choose to sleep with.  And I don't understand why so many people are so interested in the sexual preferences of others.

Plus the curiosity of the fact that "Gay People" claim they are like everybody else (which they are).  Yet it makes headlines simply because announces they are gay.  Hey, stop the presses!  Special Edition, K-Fed has announced he is White!

Probably because every time somebody "comes out of the closet", people seem to think it needs to be posted in here.  And I really see it as a non-issue.

I do not classify people by their sexual preferences.  And I find it asanine to try and do that.  It would be like Hillary Clinton announcing she was female, or George Takei announcing he is of Japanese descent. 

In short, I really don't see how it matters.  The person in question is still human.  And that is all I really care about.  It is none of my concern or interest who they choose to sleep with.  And I don't understand why so many people are so interested in the sexual preferences of others.

Plus the curiosity of the fact that "Gay People" claim they are like everybody else (which they are).  Yet it makes headlines simply because announces they are gay.  Hey, stop the presses!  Special Edition, K-Fed has announced he is White!


The way I see it, this thread has more to do with Hardaway's comments and what they mean, than Amaechi's orientation.

The way I see it, this thread has more to do with Hardaway's comments and what they mean, than Amaechi's orientation.


Hardaway was a good athlete but had a serious attitude problem then, and it sticks with him to this day.  Amaechi pretty much had to wait until his career was over because this type of attitude is more prevalent than is let on...if he had come out while still playing, he would have been waived the next day (he wasn't a superstar or anything, but still capable).  Now, if someone like, I dunno...Kareem Abdul-Jabbar suddenly said they were gay, I think it'd be different considering he scored like 39000 points, but he'd have more problems than just being a gay athlete what with the jihad on him, but I digress...

FYI, I don't shower with other menz in gyms not because I am homophobic but because I don't like gym showers...I find them not to be as clean as I would like.  I will change my swimwear and stuff though.  I'm sure I look just as nasty as the naked old men walking around the locker room :D

The way I see it, this thread has more to do with Hardaway's comments and what they mean, than Amaechi's orientation.


And that's fair.  However, the conversation is really then about Hardaway, not Amaechi.

Maybe it should really have been titled "Hardaway is a bigoted @$$wipe".  8)

Not all hetero men think that way about women. Would you feel comfortable showering with them? It's not just a gay thing. I wouldn't feel comfortable showering with women either.

Destroys years of progress in racism and segregation? We're not talking about "colored" and "whites" bathrooms here. We segregate men from women for sexual reasons all of the time. Why is this different?





Why is showering near a gay man any different than showering with a straight man?  Because of the possibility that he may be attracted to you?  He might be "checking you out"?  Hate to tell you, but straight men "size up" one another as much (if not more?) than gay men "size up" straight men (although most straight men wouldn't admit it ::)).  A straight man is more likely to cause harm to a gay man than vice versa.  When was the last time you heard of a gang of vigilante homosexuals going around beating up heterosexuals?

Segregating men from women is one thing.....biologically, we are different.  Segregating men from men or women from women is just as bad as segregating "whites" from "coloreds".....biologically we're the same.

And that's fair.  However, the conversation is really then about Hardaway, not Amaechi.

Maybe it should really have been titled "Hardaway is a bigoted @$$wipe".   8)


Well, I would've loved to have used "Hardaway is a bigoted @$$wipe,"  but I was afraid I'd get in trouble for bickering.  If you read the new site rules, you'll see that comments like those are forbidden.  I did start this thread to showcase Hardaway's comments...which were a result of John coming out.

As for the showering with gays thing, my best friend in all the world is a lesbian, and we have seen each other's "junk" on more than one occasion.  We're both in committed relationships - it's a non-issue.  What I think that people don't understand when it comes to the locker room scene, is that you've been showering in front of gay people your entire life.  You just didn't know it.  And somehow, miraculously, you've come through it unscathed.

Lastly, I'd like to give a rousing here here! to the NBA for kicking him out of the All-Star game.  I have to admit I'm a little surprised that they "punished" him, but I couldn't be happier.

I just HATE all homosexual people. They should all burn in Carmel!  ;) Yeah.

Why is showering near a gay man any different than showering with a straight man?  Because of the possibility that he may be attracted to you?  He might be "checking you out"?  Hate to tell you, but straight men "size up" one another as much (if not more?) than gay men "size up" straight men (although most straight men wouldn't admit it ::)).  A straight man is more likely to cause harm to a gay man than vice versa.  When was the last time you heard of a gang of vigilante homosexuals going around beating up heterosexuals?

Segregating men from women is one thing.....biologically, we are different.  Segregating men from men or women from women is just as bad as segregating "whites" from "coloreds".....biologically we're the same.


that is so true! I hate how straight guys always have that notion that gay guys are digging them....like everybody else has pointed out, it's not even like that. Gosh, people think that just because the person is gay that it means that it's an open invitation for them to come over and pull on all the guy's things. ::)

Please, if straight men think that gay men are checking them out.....they're full of their own self-importance.  You must think you're real hot stuff if you think gay men are going to come over and grab your ass and whisper sweet nothings in your ear. 

Please, if straight men think that gay men are checking them out.....they're full of their own self-importance.  You must think you're real hot stuff if you think gay men are going to come over and grab your ass and whisper sweet nothings in your ear. 


:D ;D

I know gay men.  They wouldn't risk being assaulted by some over-macho hetero dude because they made a pass at them.  They go into the shower, do their thing, and get out.  They don't stand around ogling people and making cat calls.  Maybe in gay gyms where everyone is gay....then maybe you might see that.  But in an environment where you don't know how people feel about gay men, especially when you're naked in a room with a bunch of other men....no way.

I know gay men.  They wouldn't risk being assaulted by some over-macho hetero dude because they made a pass at them.  They go into the shower, do their thing, and get out.  They don't stand around ogling people and making cat calls.  Maybe in gay gyms where everyone is gay....then maybe you might see that.  But in an environment where you don't know how people feel about gay men, especially when you're naked in a room with a bunch of other men....no way.



I agree...as far as I know, it's not very common to hear of a gay man starting trouble by sexually harassing a straight man in a locker room/shower.

They only harass me when I'm in drag.  But they're usually straight and think I'm an actual woman.

that is so true! I hate how straight guys always have that notion that gay guys are digging them....like everybody else has pointed out, it's not even like that. Gosh, people think that just because the person is gay that it means that it's an open invitation for them to come over and pull on all the guy's things. ::)

I had this dopey auto mechanic who used to talk about how he didn't like to go to Northampton* because gay guys hit on him in the bars.  I never said what was on my mind:  "You wish!  You're shaped like a potato, you're groomed like a bowery bum, and you smell like a goat!  You'd have to go to prison to get hit on!"
:P

*Northampton, Mass., is a regional hub for the GLBT community, not that you can call it all one community, just a figure of speech.

Well, I would've loved to have used "Hardaway is a bigoted @$$wipe,"  but I was afraid I'd get in trouble for bickering.  If you read the new site rules, you'll see that comments like those are forbidden. 

Actually, they are not. Celebrities are fair game, and provided you don't ******* cuss their ***** out for being such ******** *********, it's cool.  ;)

Karma for a week to anyone who can actually decipher my asterisks. (PM me if you're seriously interested in collecting) :D

Saying that inthe00s.com member is a "bigoted @$$wipe" is what we don't want to see.