Note: This shows the actual execution, so if you're squeamish or against such graphic displays, don't look.


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e062ace1cf

Note: This shows the actual execution, so if you're squeamish or against such graphic displays, don't look.


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e062ace1cf


I watched this the other day, it shows him drop and shows him after he's stopped bouncing on the rope, which suchs cus I wanted to see his neck snap.

I viewed it last night. it was my first hanging.  I felt uneasy at first because I've never seen something like that. I feel a little desensitized to violence from tv and movies but this was very real. The executioners and the witnesses were really loud, chanting and yelling before and afterwards.

Who's next?

Yeah I've seen it, not gruesome at all really. He didn't suffer like a number of his victims did.

^ vengeful attitude is a stride in the direction of barbarism.

I refuse to watch the images of his death, but I have seen watch I need to see on tv.

^ vengeful attitude is a stride in the direction of barbarism.
perhaps, but I'm sure there is probably a large number of Iraqi people that consider it justice, and not vengeance.

^ vengeful attitude is a stride in the direction of barbarism.


I don't believe he should have been tortured of course, just saying that he received fairer justice than he gave his victims.

Yeah I've seen it, not gruesome at all really. He didn't suffer like a number of his victims did.


I watched it, didn't think it was gruesome at all.  It's a better way to die than some ways I've seen.  He did get off far easier than many of his victims did, getting a quick and relatively clean death is a lot better than you hear about the way he had some of his prisoners killed...

maybe in a way, justice can be barbaric. I think the statue of Lady Justice holds the scales of moral justice in one hand, and is blindfolded and carries a sword in the other hand.

It's a better way to die than some ways I've seen. 




...huh?

...huh?



Meaning quick and relatively painless.

I used to be an EMT and have witnessed more than my fair share of MVA victims, farming accidents, and from working on commercial construction sites for a good many years, death from falls, electrocutions, etc., etc.

His death was quick, and any suffering he did I'm sure came in the hours before he dropped through the trap door....if the powers that were in charge of the actual execution wanted him to suffer, they could have "short dropped" him, it would have decreased the chances of his neck breaking and basically he would have slowly strangled to death...

Meaning quick and relatively painless.

I used to be an EMT and have witnessed more than my fair share of MVA victims, farming accidents, and from working on commercial construction sites for a good many years, death from falls, electrocutions, etc., etc.



ooh.  I work in construction.  I have been fortunate not to have been on a jobsite where a death occured(knock on wood) but everyone knows someone who got killed, or someone who saw someone get  killed, or both.  Can be very gruesome.

I watched this the other day, it shows him drop and shows him after he's stopped bouncing on the rope, which suchs cus I wanted to see his neck snap.


Delightful. :-X


^ vengeful attitude is a stride in the direction of barbarism.


Ah, an island of sanity in a rolling sea of 13th-century justice...

Guess I'm a barbarian then because I thought it was well deserved.

Time for me to go rape and pillage now. ::)

Guess I'm a barbarian then because I thought it was well deserved.

Time for me to go rape and pillage now. ::)



w00t!

Guess I'm a barbarian then because I thought it was well deserved.

Time for me to go rape and pillage now. ::)


Wait for me...I'm a barbarian also.......

Sometimes I'm on the fence with capital punishment, but in this case I think why should the Iraqi people support this idiot for the next 20 something years while he sits in a prison. I didn't shed any tears when he was dropped.

Sometimes I'm on the fence with capital punishment, but in this case I think why should the American people support this idiot for the next 20 something years while he sits in a prison. I didn't shed any tears when he was dropped.


Fixed :)

Saddam = suxxorz.  Now we move on.

Fixed :)

Saddam = suxxorz.  Now we move on.


Correct, for the last 3 years the American people have been the ones supporting him, that's ridiculous. Good riddance.

Delightful. :-X

Ah, an island of sanity in a rolling sea of 13th-century justice...
so anyone disagreeing with this opinion is not sane^ and the rest are insane. That's insane. try to imagine yourself as an Iraqi citizen that has been victimized and then maybe you won't feel that this is so wrong. What do you want to do, lock him up?  give in to your inner barbarism and come join in as one of the insane ones like the rest of us.

so anyone disagreeing with this opinion is not sane^ and the rest are insane. That's insane. try to imagine yourself as an Iraqi citizen that has been victimized and then maybe you won't feel that this is so wrong. What do you want to do, lock him up?  give in to your inner barbarism and come join in as one of the insane ones like the rest of us.


Why would he do that?  It's much more fun to accuse the rest of us of being crazy and being barbaric.

Why would he do that?  It's much more fun to accuse the rest of us of being crazy and being barbaric.
i know, He always manages to state his opinion and at the same time make sure everyone else's has zero value except of course those that are of the same opinion. funny how that works.

give in to your inner barbarism and come join in as one of the insane ones like the rest of us.


No thanks, I believe in the sanctity of life. State-sponsored murder is stooping to the level of the convicted* and it belongs in the trash heap of history. :-X

*the convincted(in this case, more so than most) did indeed show no mercy for his victims..but am I to believe thats the standard the new Iraqi goverment or the U.S. government should be held to? A murderous, sociopathic dictator?

So you believe there is NEVER EVER EVER EVER an instance in the history of this planet, when executing someone is the just thing to do?  Someone could literally murder and rape hundreds of thousands of people and they deserve the same punishment as someone who has raped or murdered only one? 




Yeah.  That makes sense.

i know, He always manages to state his opinion and at the same time make sure everyone else's has zero value except of course those that are of the same opinion. funny how that works.


What, is the Dude not allowed to have an opinion anymore? I didn't see him mention anywhere in his post that he feels that everyone else is insane. I saw him agree with another persons post, that's all.

Seriously, how can you take what he said so personally?

So you believe there is NEVER EVER EVER EVER an instance in the history of this planet, when executing someone is the just thing to do?  Someone could literally murder and rape hundreds of thousands of people and they deserve the same punishment as someone who has raped or murdered only one? 




Yeah.  That makes sense.


Is one locked thread not enough for you?

Is one locked thread not enough for you?



I want every thread in this forum locked.  Then my plan for world and galaxy domination can begin.  I have it written down in my day planner.

Is one locked thread not enough for you?


Apparently not. I have no time for her, she can argue with herself if she wants to.

Some people just can't understand the idea of being ethically opposed to the death penalty, no matter what the circumstances. Its not my problem. I'm not here to validate myself to anyone.

What, is the Dude not allowed to have an opinion anymore? I didn't see him mention anywhere in his post that he feels that everyone else is insane. I saw him agree with another persons post, that's all.

Seriously, how can you take what he said so personally?




I don't think anyone is saying "the dude" is not entitled to an opinion.  However, when he infers based on his choice of words that one person posting is an "island of sanity", what does that say about those of us who have a differing opinion from his??

Apparently not. I have no time for her, she can argue with herself if she wants to.



Ooooh, that one hurt.

Saddam got what he had coming, right or wrong.  Live by the sword, die by the sword.  What you put out into the universe comes back to you.  Saddam knew his fate 20 years ago--at least subconsciously.

I did not say anybody was a barbarian.

We saw Saddam get his just deserts.  I caution against calling it morally correct.  You see a man die by the proverbial sword, and you pick up the proverbial sword and call it "justice," then you bequeath to yourself just a bit of Saddam's spirit.  When we celebrate violence, we send a message that violence is just.  If violence is necessary, it is because righteousness has failed, not because violence is righteous.

Saddam got what he had coming, right or wrong.  Live by the sword, die by the sword.  What you put out into the universe comes back to you.  Saddam knew his fate 20 years ago--at least subconsciously.

I did not say anybody was a barbarian.

We saw Saddam get his just deserts.  I caution against calling it morally correct.  You see a man die by the proverbial sword, and you pick up the proverbial sword and call it "justice," then you bequeath to yourself just a bit of Saddam's spirit.  When we celebrate violence, we send a message that violence is just.  If violence is necessary, it is because righteousness has failed, not because violence is righteous.


I just don't think its right. To me its no more right than the murders themselves(executions).

I don't think anyone is saying "the dude" is not entitled to an opinion.  However, when he infers based on his choice of words that one person posting is an "island of sanity", what does that say about those of us who have a differing opinion from his??


My honest opinion?

I think it says that a few people here need to grow some thicker skin and stop whining so much. Take that "island of sanity" quote to a mod and tell him/her that you are offended. I can't imagine that it would do much though, seeing as what he said really didn't break any forum guidlines as far as I could tell. Especially since this is all happening in the debate forum.

Personally, I don't think that the hanging of someone, regardless of how barbaric and cruel they were, is reason for people to celebrate. I just think that his hanging should be the closure that the citizens of Iraq deserve after all these years of suffering. Not posting the video on the internet so people can make crude jokes, superimpose funny pictures, or dubb their parody of "Hangin Tough" in the background for cheap laughs.

Not posting the video on the internet so people can make crude jokes, superimpose funny pictures, or dubb their parody of "Hangin Tough" in the background for cheap laughs.


That stuff really disturbs me. It makes me wonder what kind of sadism the average Joe in this country is really capable of...

What, is the Dude not allowed to have an opinion anymore? I didn't see him mention anywhere in his post that he feels that everyone else is insane. I saw him agree with another persons post, that's all.

Seriously, how can you take what he said so personally?




He can have an opinion. It's just sad that if someone doesn't agree with him, they're accused of believing in "13th century justice" or they're indirectly called "barbaric".


My honest opinion?

I think it says that a few people here need to grow some thicker skin and stop whining so much. Take that "island of sanity" quote to a mod and tell him/her that you are offended. I can't imagine that it would do much though, seeing as what he said really didn't break any forum guidlines as far as I could tell. Especially since this is all happening in the debate forum..


Tell that to your buddy.

He can have an opinion. It's just sad that if someone doesn't agree with him, they're accused of believing in "13th century justice" or they're indirectly called "barbaric".


Its my belief that the death penalty IS barbaric and 13th century justice. Accept that for what it is, accuse me of being intolerant of your opinion, whatever suits your fancy. It doesn't matter to me.

Its my belief that the death penalty IS barbaric and 13th century justice. Accept that for what it is, accuse me of being intolerant of your opinion, whatever suits your fancy. It doesn't matter to me.


I think I'll plunder your town first.

That stuff really disturbs me. It makes me wonder what kind of sadism the average Joe in this country is really capable of...


Hey don't get me wrong.

If the execution were held in my back yard I would have called my brother and cousins over and we would have pulled the hairs off of his scrotum one at a time, and then things would have really kicked into gear once the gimp arrived.

But he got a trial, something he never gave to people in order for them to be tortured and executed. I think he deserved to die, and not as quickly as he did. I just think that making light of it with crude jokes takes away from the seriousness of the situation for the families of those who suffered and needed this.

Hey don't get me wrong.

If the execution were held in my back yard I would have called my brother and cousins over and we would have pulled the hairs off of his scrotum one at a time, and then things would have really kicked into gear once the gimp arrived.

But he got a trial, something he never gave to people in order for them to be tortured and executed. I think he deserved to die, and not as quickly as he did. I just think that making light of it with crude jokes takes away from the seriousness of the situation for the families of those who suffered and needed this.





I'm saying. I don't much like the jokes, but a morbid little part of me really wants to see the whole execution.

Hey don't get me wrong.

If the execution were held in my back yard I would have called my brother and cousins over and we would have pulled the hairs off of his scrotum one at a time, and then things would have really kicked into gear once the gimp arrived.

But he got a trial, something he never gave to people in order for them to be tortured and executed. I think he deserved to die, and not as quickly as he did. I just think that making light of it with crude jokes takes away from the seriousness of the situation for the families of those who suffered and needed this.



the thing nobody talks about -- well, okay, certain folks bring this up constantly but they never get a response -- is the exact same chumps who are all horny for hussein to get executed, like bush and rumsfeld and that whole bunch, them or their predecessors worked with him quite closely in the 80s. and he wasn't any better then, and bush sr. and reagan and all their buddies knew EXACTLY what kind of a guy he was like.

so... the question, once and for all. why was it okay then for him to gas his own people and slaughter the iranians, but now all the sudden he's the new hitler and everybody's hatin' on him? which is it? was he a business partner with a few spots? or the worst thing since the black plague? because from where i'm sitting the right wing's position on this makes NO sense at all. it looks to me like a deal that went bad. hussein played ball for a while, but then he started getting uppity about something and so the bushies decided to whack him and make it look like a human rights issue. but it was basically a hit.

What, is the Dude not allowed to have an opinion anymore? I didn't see him mention anywhere in his post that he feels that everyone else is insane. I saw him agree with another persons post, that's all.

Seriously, how can you take what he said so personally?


I would not try to stifle his opinion, but please tell me what he meant when he replied to one post saying "at last, an island of sanity" because my thin skin sort of took it as an insult, and perhaps shouldn't take it personally and I normally wouldn't because it's really no big deal, but there's a trend here, in that the poster tends to feel picked on or ganged up on every once in awhile and I think these are the types of comments that stir up and provoke people to lash back. It's not that hard to see the pattern. His or your opinions are allowed, how can they not be, it's a debate forum but casual statements like that aren't meant as an opinion, it's a dig and he probably knows it.  where's the MOD  ;D 

  Ever notice how war criminals always end up on the losing side..?

  Bush started a war by violating international agreements and foisting fraudulent justification on the world; furthermore, he conducted the war in violation of the Geneva conventions.

  American War Criminals:

  George W. Bush
  Donald Rumsfeld
  Colin Powell

  That's just the preliminary list that doesn't account for the "minor" things like shooting the odd civilian or violating POW rules...

  Additionally, all the commanding staff carrying out his orders in these instances are criminals as well, and at some point the necessity of closure will forgive the grunt-level soldiers whose judgment is necessarily clouded by the mountains of carnage and fire around them.

  At some point, we have to ask ourselves two vital questions: What actually happened, and who is responsible..?  The answers seem clear.  And any war-dog reminding us that "Saddam is responsible" will be laughed at in exchange for trying to duck the point groove ;) on...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV_o4rHCbgE

the usual warning about adult language.

When we celebrate violence, we send a message that violence is just.  If violence is necessary, it is because righteousness has failed, not because violence is righteous.


Out of curosity, have you seen the cellphone video?

I hate to admit this, but Saddam, curse his little blackened heart, had more dignity and presence than anyone else there, with the possible exception of one guy who was trying to keep a lid on things by saying "Please, please, this man is being executed" as a request to the other sectarian goons to stop enjoying the show so much. 

Live by the sword, die by the sword, and Saddam did just that.  It was grand poetic justice, but it wasn't justice by any Western definition of the term. 

Funny thing about this war is that it started with PNAC arguing that Western-style values could be exported; that the desire for "freedom" (in the Western tradition) was somehow a "universal hunger in every heart".  The hard Left was momentarily flummoxed - the obvious Redneck counter, "Them silly Ay-rabs cain't unnerstand freedum, they're just a buncha tribal headchoppers", was so obviously racist that it could never be advocated, at least not with a lot of wordsmithing and reminders that "cultural imperialism is bad, cultural relativism is good".  But the past few years - and if the Saddam hanging video didn't clinch it, nothing else would - have shown both the rednecks and the hard Left to be correct on their fundamental point:  tribal societies aren't capable of looking beyond blood feuds. 

Five years ago, we weren't sure.  Frankly, it was probably an experiment worth trying.  But it failed.  Dust off and nuke the site from orbit.  Only way to be sure.

  Ever notice how war criminals always end up on the losing side..?


You got it backwards. You don't become a war criminal and go on to lose the war, you lose the war, and then become a war criminal.

If we'd lost WW2, Gen. Arthur "Bomber" Harris (Firebombing of Dresden) and Col. Tibbets (OK, it woulda taken a hell of a turnaround after Tibbets dropped the atomic bomb, but bear with me :) would probably have ended up as war criminals, and Josef Mengele and his Japanese counterparts in Unit 731 would have been hailed as misunderstood medical mavericks who advance the state of wartime medicine as best they could under the horrible circumstances imposed by the war.

"History is written by the victors."
- various attributions, most often attributed to Winston Churchill

You got it backwards. You don't become a war criminal and go on to lose the war, you lose the war, and then become a war criminal.



   I say that with tongue planted firmly in cheek.  If there's one thing I've learned from Superman it's that crime doesn't pay and evil always loses...

   You speak the truth...

   It has just occurred to me that there is some irony in the fact that none of those on the list will ever be tried...

   Hey, we've got the same attitude in America that everyone else seems to have: You don't like it..? Come and get us.  Bring it on!  God is on our side..!

   And yet we get so tremendously pissed off when someone does bring it.  Irrationally so.  And that irrationality leads our leaders to commit war crimes that will only be punished if we manage to "lose" this war - a possibility not beyond imagination groove ;) on...

That stuff really disturbs me. It makes me wonder what kind of sadism the average Joe in this country is really capable of...

The U.S. is a violent country with a lot of social problems.  Hard to say who the "Average Joe" is nowadays.  I wouldn't get too upset about tasteless jokes, though.  The video clip may depict a real death, but seeing it on the Internet numbs the reality.  It's like the gore sites, Rotten, Ogrish, etc., where you see guys making jokes about snuff videos.  They'd feel differently if their wives or mamas were getting boiled to death on camera, but some street urchin from Manila?  Who cares?

People got outraged when some joker set the footage of people fleeing the WTC on 9/11 to the Benny Hill theme.  But that was going to happen.  Doesn't make it decent or tasteful, but say you've got just one million people with access to the WTC footage and the Benny Hill music.  One million is a big number, so it's a statistical inevitability.  That clip will tickle a lot of funny bones---and make a lot of people angry, either way it'll get around the 'Net.

Dude, you strike me as a person who is more sensitive and perceptive than most people.  I'm that way myself.  This is generally a good thing, but it does leave one more vulnerable to upsets in a world full of savage people.    Just something we must cope with.


You got it backwards. You don't become a war criminal and go on to lose the war, you lose the war, and then become a war criminal.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say too.  Over there Saddam hanged.  Over here, Rumsfeld got let go to retire with all his millions.  Bush and Cheney are untouchable.  The won't face impeachment.  John Dean, of all people, was on TV tonight suggesting the Dems might go after some lower level cabinet officials.  I guess catching a few flunkies would be a start.  However, the executives at the top who gave the orders aren't going to see justice.  I don't call for the same treatment Saddam got.  I certainly don't suggest anybody take the law into his own hands no matter how frustrating the lack of justice gets.



I hate to admit this, but Saddam, curse his little blackened heart, had more dignity and presence than anyone else there, with the possible exception of one guy who was trying to keep a lid on things by saying "Please, please, this man is being executed" as a request to the other sectarian goons to stop enjoying the show so much. 


Remember all the trouble Bill Mahar had for his remarks after 9/11?  We want to call Saddam a coward because the antonym of cowardice is bravery and bravery is a virtue.  I don't think Saddam was a coward, and he was anything but dumb.  No doubt he was evil.  What you saw up there on the scaffold was a measure of dignity, but I think it was more resignation.  Saddam knew he was finished.  He played the power game for half a century and won hand after hand.  Gamble long enough and the house is going to win.  Saddam knew how the game was played.  He saw plenty of people play losing hands, and he sentenced them to even worse fates.  12/30/06 it was his turn.  The jig was up.  No use kicking and screaming.

The U.S. is a violent country with a lot of social problems.  Hard to say who the "Average Joe" is nowadays.  I wouldn't get too upset about tasteless jokes, though.  The video clip may depict a real death, but seeing it on the Internet numbs the reality.  It's like the gore sites, Rotten, Ogrish, etc., where you see guys making jokes about snuff videos.  They'd feel differently if their wives or mamas were getting boiled to death on camera, but some street urchin from Manila?  Who cares?



  Your post just reminded me of an old, high school favorite of mine...

  I saw your mommy and your mommy's dead
  I watched her as she bled
  Chewed off toes on her chopped off feet
  I took a picture cause I thought it was neat
  But the thing I like seeing the best
  Was the rodents using her hair as a nest
  I saw your mommy and your mommy's dead

  I saw your mommy and your mommy's dead
  I saw her lying in a pool of red
  I think it's the greatest thing I'll ever see
  Your dead mommy lying in front of me
  I'll always remember her lying dead on the floor
  I hope she dies twenty times more
  I saw your mommy and your mommy is dead groove ;) on...

This made me think about a movie, The Wizard of Oz. when Dorthy's house landed on and killed the wicked witch of the west. Did the Munchkins start singing and dancing on the yellow brick road or what?  you bet your ass's they did!!  ;D  They celebrated the end of their oppression and felt liberated. What a great family movie that truly is.  I say let the people in Iraq celebrate if they feel the need, and any other peoples of the world that want to. His death will probably saves more lives than we'll ever know. If people post cartoons, jokes about it, so what! It's friggin Saddam Hussein.   the man and his sons were mean and evil and forfeited their lives as fair legal payment , imo.  
Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead!

Has anyone else heard the rumor that this captured footage of the execution was a fake...or am I the only one that has stumbled upon that rumor? ???

Has anyone else heard the rumor that this captured footage of the execution was a fake...or am I the only one that has stumbled upon that rumor? ???


  I've heard everything from faked to a body double being hanged, like that Roman soldier in Dude's "Ask me" thread...

  H-m-m, do you suppose..?

   Your post just reminded me of an old, high school favorite of mine...

   I saw your mommy and your mommy's dead
   I watched her as she bled
   Chewed off toes on her chopped off feet
   I took a picture cause I thought it was neat
   But the thing I like seeing the best
   Was the rodents using her hair as a nest
   I saw your mommy and your mommy's dead

   I saw your mommy and your mommy's dead
   I saw her lying in a pool of red
   I think it's the greatest thing I'll ever see
   Your dead mommy lying in front of me
   I'll always remember her lying dead on the floor
   I hope she dies twenty times more
   I saw your mommy and your mommy is dead groove ;) on...

Oh, I hated that song!  My friend used to sing it to bug me.  Every time he started, I'd shout:
Jesus loves me,
This I know
'coz the Bible tells me so!

;D

Oh, I hated that song!  My friend used to sing it to bug me.  Every time he started, I'd shout:
Jesus loves me,
This I know
'coz the Bible tells me so!

;D



  LOL..!  Honestly, that song scared me sh**less the first couple of listens...

His death will probably saves more lives than we'll ever know.


Explain to me how its going to "save lives" when Hussein was already out of power and going to spend the rest of his life in a jail cell? Explain to me how its going to "save lives" despite the fact its further strained Sunni-Shia tensions region-wide in the Middle East? Is it going to save the lives of American soldiers fighting in Iraq who will be the targets of angry Sunnis looking for revenge(and who place the blame squarely on us)? >:(

You seem to think every man, woman and child in Iraq hated Hussein. On the contrary, a large portion of the Arab Sunni community in Iraq even to this day harbors pro-Saddam sentiment. Just read the paper, the negative reaction to this has been everywhere over there.

Has anyone else heard the rumor that this captured footage of the execution was a fake...or am I the only one that has stumbled upon that rumor? ???


Well, of course it's a fake!  The real Saddam is now making a champagne toast in a gilded palace under a mountain in the Wadi Hammamat!
;)

Well, of course it's a fake!  The real Saddam is now making a champagne toast in a gilded palace under a mountain in the Wadi Hammamat!
;)
actually he's here right now. we're arguing over what kinda pizza we're gonna order from domino's.

he's actually all right. kinda likes to party and stuff.

actually he's here right now. we're arguing over what kinda pizza we're gonna order from domino's.

he's actually all right. kinda likes to party and stuff.



No pork products, please.

Well, of course it's a fake!  The real Saddam is now making a champagne toast in a gilded palace under a mountain in the Wadi Hammamat!
;)




actually he's here right now. we're arguing over what kinda pizza we're gonna order from domino's.

he's actually all right. kinda likes to party and stuff.



:D ;D :P

No pork products, please.
lol. that's all frontin'! he's totally secular. we call him "bacon boy."

he really makes an ass out of himself when he tries to shotgun a broo though. but that's alright, he's not as young as he used to be. or as alive.

Explain to me how its going to "save lives" when Hussein was already out of power and going to spend the rest of his life in a jail cell? Explain to me how its going to "save lives" despite the fact its further strained Sunni-Shia tensions region-wide in the Middle East? Is it going to save the lives of American soldiers fighting in Iraq who will be the targets of angry Sunnis looking for revenge(and who place the blame squarely on us)? >:(

You seem to think every man, woman and child in Iraq hated Hussein. On the contrary, a large portion of the Arab Sunni community in Iraq even to this day harbors pro-Saddam sentiment. Just read the paper, the negative reaction to this has been everywhere over there.

Maybe if Saddam remained in power more people would have died.  Maybe now that he's executed and the country is in anarchy MORE people will die than if Saddam remained in charge.  Hogwash in the subjunctive tense.  Might as well ask, how many people would be alive today if Dubya died in a DUI in 1972?
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/nixweiss.gif

Reminds me of Vonnegut's "Deadeye Dick," in which the kid talks about how his grandfather bought a painting from Hitler when Hitler was an impovrished artist in Austria, "If my grandfather hadn't bought that painting, Hitler would have starved to death in 1910..."
;D

Has anyone else heard the rumor that this captured footage of the execution was a fake...or am I the only one that has stumbled upon that rumor? ???
that thought crossed my mind as i watched it, is it really him? what's done is done.


Explain to me how its going to "save lives" when Hussein was already out of power and going to spend the rest of his life in a jail cell? Explain to me how its going to "save lives" despite the fact its further strained Sunni-Shia tensions region-wide in the Middle East? Is it going to save the lives of American soldiers fighting in Iraq who will be the targets of angry Sunnis looking for revenge(and who place the blame squarely on us)? >:(

You seem to think every man, woman and child in Iraq hated Hussein. On the contrary, a large portion of the Arab Sunni community in Iraq even to this day harbors pro-Saddam sentiment. Just read the paper, the negative reaction to this has been everywhere over there.
People can now oppose their govt. without being killed for it, if there is something they wish to protest or change, that's how it will save lives. Saddam could orchestrate a lot from his prison cell if he were alive. I think it will be the start of the possibility of some stability and security in that area. Of course no one knows how many hate him, or how many love him, but You seem to care more about his life and completely ignore the tens of thousands killed and tortured and hurt under his leadership, with no mercy from him. His death is punishment for his unlawful acts!  If he's alive he could continue to give orders and his leadership, &  commandeering to continue, even from within a tiny cell, just as it's done from our own prisons today. The fear of Saddam is no longer a factor so many.  He was executed for the crime of murder.  

actually he's here right now. we're arguing over what kinda pizza we're gonna order from domino's.


I know what kind he wants:

The Saddam Special: Big Cheese, Extra Oil!*
 ;)

*actually, that was a joke our local pizzeria guy made just after the invasion of Kuwait, I called in an order for a large cheese with a bit more olive oil than last time.  I got there, and the guy says,
"Eh! We're gonna call this The Saddam Special: Big Cheese, Extra Oil!"  Laughed, thought I'd die!

Explain to me how its going to "save lives" when Hussein was already out of power and going to spend the rest of his life in a jail cell? Explain to me how its going to "save lives" despite the fact its further strained Sunni-Shia tensions region-wide in the Middle East? Is it going to save the lives of American soldiers fighting in Iraq who will be the targets of angry Sunnis looking for revenge(and who place the blame squarely on us)? >:(

You seem to think every man, woman and child in Iraq hated Hussein. On the contrary, a large portion of the Arab Sunni community in Iraq even to this day harbors pro-Saddam sentiment. Just read the paper, the negative reaction to this has been everywhere over there.


  I admire your enthusiasm, Dude, but lets make no mistake - the whole contrived three ring circus gives me heartburn, however, I state for the record that I don't have a problem with Hussein's freedom being taken away.  I oppose the death penalty for anyone, anywhere and for anything accross the board.  The whys, whats and wherefores of his hanging becomes a moot point...

  In the end, the loud silence of Hussein's absence will pass and all participants will find other reasons to die...

  Support our troops..!  Bring them home, NOW..! groove ;) on...

 

  I admire your enthusiasm, Dude, but lets make no mistake - the whole contrived three ring circus gives me heartburn, however, I state for the record that I don't have a problem with Hussein's freedom being taken away.  I oppose the death penalty for anyone, anywhere and for anything accross the board.  The whys, whats and wherefores of his hanging becomes a moot point...

  In the end, the loud silence of Hussein's absence will pass and all participants will find other reasons to die...

  Support our troops..!  Bring them home, NOW..! groove ;) on...

 
well said Davester  8) 

the thing nobody talks about -- well, okay, certain folks bring this up constantly but they never get a response -- is the exact same chumps who are all horny for hussein to get executed, like bush and rumsfeld and that whole bunch, them or their predecessors worked with him quite closely in the 80s. and he wasn't any better then, and bush sr. and reagan and all their buddies knew EXACTLY what kind of a guy he was like.

so... the question, once and for all. why was it okay then for him to gas his own people and slaughter the iranians, but now all the sudden he's the new hitler and everybody's hatin' on him? which is it? was he a business partner with a few spots? or the worst thing since the black plague? because from where i'm sitting the right wing's position on this makes NO sense at all. it looks to me like a deal that went bad. hussein played ball for a while, but then he started getting uppity about something and so the bushies decided to whack him and make it look like a human rights issue. but it was basically a hit.
I think that Saddam Hussein was an evil man who deserved to die for his crimes and that the world is a better place without people like him in it (although I also think that the legal procedures leading up to his execution amounted to little more than a "show trial") but still I can't help but wonder: If Iraq had never invaded Kuwait back in 1990, would Saddam still be in power, would his military still be intact, and would our government still be turning a blind eye to his atrocities? 
  There's an old quote, allegedly attributed to FDR when referring to Nicaraguan dictator Anastasio Somoza. When confronted with the atrocities of Somoza, who was a U.S. ally, FDR supposedly replied, "He may be a sonofabitch, but he's our sonofabitch."
    Was Saddam's trial and execution really for crimes against humanity? Or was it because, back in 1990, he decided not to be our sonofabitch anymore?  ???

well said.

its further strained Sunni-Shia tensions region-wide in the Middle East?


These guys have been killing each other for too long to remember.

They kill each other all over the world and will continue to.

I just wish they'd hurry up and finish off the job.

I chose not to watch the execution - I just don't need to see it.

My gut reaction to capital punishment is that it's wrong.  I can't see the logic in killing someone to punish them for killing someone.  Besides that, I think staying alive and rotting in a prison cell is a far worse punishment than death.  But I also have to look at the money that is spent on those prisoners rotting in their cells.  Wouldn't that money be better spent on the homeless, the hungry, the people in Darfur?  (Not that we're willing to help them out, but that's another rant entirely...)  As far as I'm concerned, death is the easy way out.  Saddam didn't suffer, he doesn't have to spend the rest of his life dealing with the fallout of his actions, and he isn't a burden on any taxpaying society.  Does that mean I think the death penalty is morally correct?  Nope - I still don't.  But the world isn't black or white, as much as people wish it could be.  Things are far more complicated than that.

I'd also like to add that, as civilized as we like to think we are, humans are by nature, barbaric.  People have attended executions since the begining of time, and in the past they were treated like a day at the races.  Right now, we have all sorts of shoot 'em up, violent as hell video games.  I think these games feed the violent tendencies in all of us.  For thousands of years, humans had to kill animals and other humans to stay alive - it's ingrained in our DNA.  As much as I may personally object to the violence, I can aknowledge that it is a natural part of humanity.  I'm sure that we'll get away from it someday, but I don't think it's going to be any time soon.

^Violence isn't a part of my nature.

I can't believe someone would do that.  ::)

I can't believe someone would do that.  ::)


  Do what..?

Something is to be said for their swift carrying out of the sentence. Not like the US, where someone sentenced to death hangs out on death row for 20 or 30 years, living off the taxpayers.

Something is to be said for their swift carrying out of the sentence. Not like the US, where someone sentenced to death hangs out on death row for 20 or 30 years, living off the taxpayers.


  No pun intended, right Abix..?  :P

   No pun intended, right Abix..?  :P


Right. :P

   Do what..?


Capture an excution via a cell phone....  ::)

Capture an excution via a cell phone....  ::)


  Yeah, that's a strange thing to do...

  If it makes you feel any better, the video is nearly unwatchable...

   Yeah, that's a strange thing to do...

   If it makes you feel any better, the video is nearly unwatchable...

Nearly.  But ya still watched, right? :P

Nearly.  But ya still watched, right? :P


  Well...yeah, but I hate myself for it... :P

Something is to be said for their swift carrying out of the sentence. Not like the US, where someone sentenced to death hangs out on death row for 20 or 30 years, living off the taxpayers.


I don't think theres anything to be said for it. It means they don't have a sufficient appeals process. Nothing to be proud of in that.

I don't think theres anything to be said for it. It means they don't have a sufficient appeals process. Nothing to be proud of in that.


   The appeal process is underway as we speak... :P

yeah, well the hundreds of thousands of genoicide victims didn't have much of an appeal either, Alex.

yeah, well the hundreds of thousands of genoicide victims didn't have much of an appeal either, Alex.


Which is probably why Saddam killed them...they were unappealing.

*groan*

Pre-emptive groan :D

yeah, well the hundreds of thousands of genoicide victims didn't have much of an appeal either, Alex.


yes and they were ordered dead by a genocidal maniac. Is that the standard we want to hold the new Iraqi government to? Hussein??

I don't think theres anything to be said for it. It means they don't have a sufficient appeals process. Nothing to be proud of in that.



So you think someone who's sentenced to death should get to appeal for 20 or 30 years?  Even if there is no evidence to substantiate whatever claim of innocence they're making, they should still get to appeal for 20 or 30 years? 

So you think someone who's sentenced to death should get to appeal for 20 or 30 years?  Even if there is no evidence to substantiate whatever claim of innocence they're making, they should still get to appeal for 20 or 30 years? 


Of course.

I don't think they should be executed in the first place, so of course I think they should be able to appeal for 20-30 years.

Wow.

Of course.

I don't think they should be executed in the first place, so of course I think they should be able to appeal for 20-30 years.


So you think the American taxpayers should pay to take care of Saddam for the next 20 years?

Wow.


Yeah, its amazing when someone doesn't hold a lynch mob mentality. ::)


So you think the American taxpayers should pay to take care of Saddam for the next 20 years?


Um, use your brain dude. I don't support the death penalty. So what do you think?

I'm pretty tired of asinine "so you would so-and-so" type questions. People, I'm against the death penalty. Period.

So you think the American taxpayers should pay to take care of Saddam for the next 20 years?



that's nuckin futs! ;D :D

Yeah, its amazing when someone doesn't hold a lynch mob mentality. ::)

Um, use your brain dude. I don't support the death penalty. So what do you think?



I don't think you get it.  If I kill 4 people, there is evidence, witnesses, DNA...the whole 9 yards, you think it's fair to the families of the people I killed that I get to sit my happy ass in a jail cell for 20 or 30 years, appeal my little heart out even though I have no grounds to and suck up taxpayers' monies like a broken vacuum cleaner?  That's not justice, that's stupidity. 

I think everyone on death row should get appeals, but once it becomes apparent that there is no constitutional grounds to hold a new trial, no new evidence that would exonerate, the sentence should be carried out. 

that's nuckin futs! ;D :D



No no Erin, it's smart. 

So you think the American taxpayers should pay to take care of Saddam for the next 20 years?

WTF?  We're spending ten million dollars an hour in Iraq.  The proper care and feeding of a caged Saddam is barely a drop in the bucket---even for 20 years.  But the point is moot as of 12/30!
::)

WTF?  We're spending ten million dollars an hour in Iraq.  The proper care and feeding of a caged Saddam is barely a drop in the bucket---even for 20 years.  But the point is moot as of 12/30!
::)


All of it is/was a waste.

Stop being a condescending git. 


I don't think you get it.  If I kill 4 people, there is evidence, witnesses, DNA...the whole 9 yards, you think it's fair to the families of the people I killed that I get to sit my happy ass in a jail cell for 20 or 30 years, appeal my little heart out even though I have no grounds to and suck up taxpayers' monies like a broken vacuum cleaner?  That's not justice, that's stupidity. 

I think everyone on death row should get appeals, but once it becomes apparent that there is no constitutional grounds to hold a new trial, no new evidence that would exonerate, the sentence should be carried out. 


I don't care about any of that. I'm against the death penalty in the first place. Some people here cannot seem to comprehend that.

Right....so then stay out of all threads dealing with the death penalty and you won't have to deal with us barbarians who think that occasionally, it should be used.

Don't make me lock this thread now!  ;)

Don't make me lock this thread now!  ;)



Sorry Angel.  I'll go to happier threads, with less sadness.

I's just kiddin;

Damn, I can't karma you.  :(

Right....so then stay out of all threads dealing with the death penalty and you won't have to deal with us barbarians who think that occasionally, it should be used.


We're still raiding that town later, right?

We're still raiding that town later, right?



Yup.  What time are you picking me up?

Yup.  What time are you picking me up?


It'll take me awhile to get through the Panama Canal in my boat, so a month or two.

Stop being a condescending git. 


I don't think you get it.  If I kill 4 people, there is evidence, witnesses, DNA...the whole 9 yards, you think it's fair to the families of the people I killed that I get to sit my happy ass in a jail cell for 20 or 30 years, appeal my little heart out even though I have no grounds to and suck up taxpayers' monies like a broken vacuum cleaner?  That's not justice, that's stupidity. 

I think everyone on death row should get appeals, but once it becomes apparent that there is no constitutional grounds to hold a new trial, no new evidence that would exonerate, the sentence should be carried out. 

Unless you are willing to do away with the appeals process, a capital case costs the taxpayers more than a life-without-parole case.  The more you expedite the appeals process the greater the chance of putting to death a defendant who is either innocent or not a candidate for the death penalty in the first place.  Sometimes what appears to be "the whole 9 yards" turns out to be only 6 yards!  The way George W. Bush administered the death penalty in Texas was not justice but domestic terrorism.  I'm sure Dubya pulled wood when he saw Saddam hang.

I don't care about any of that. I'm against the death penalty in the first place. Some people here cannot seem to comprehend that.


I'm not a big capital punishment supporter, but considering who this is I could care less about him, there are no questions about his ultimate guilt here. Hopefully Bin Laden's next.

It'll take me awhile to get through the Panama Canal in my boat, so a month or two.



Sounds good.  We should pillage, plunder THEN burn it to the ground..  We took too long plundering last time, we barely had time for anything else.

All of it is/was a waste.


I'm afraid so, old chap!

Right....so then stay out of all threads dealing with the death penalty and you won't have to deal with us barbarians who think that occasionally, it should be used.


Make fun of me all you wish but I have the moral superiority on this one.

Sounds good.  We should pillage, plunder THEN burn it to the ground..  We took too long plundering last time, we barely had time for anything else.


Yeah, we should've enjoyed the sights more before burning them.



Make fun of me all you wish but I have the moral superiority on this one.



::)

I personally think that Saddam Hussein was merely a pawn in the bigger picture. An evil pawn.. but nevertheless, a pawn in the scheme of the Bush Strategists without a clue. Hussein was supposed to be Bush's big "CHECKMATE" but if it would have been 4 yrs ago, it would have been more effective. Now ,  nearly 5 yrs later, 3000 dead, not to mention countless Iraqi civilians dead, and no end in site.. well it barely made a ripple.

Make fun of me all you wish but I have the moral superiority on this one.



Yep Yep Yep.... :D


http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9gnMiUI6p1FCZoAoDSjzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NDgyNWN0BHNlYwNwcm9m/SIG=142st4nnk/EXP=1168063368/**http%3a//www.all-science-fair-projects.com/science_fair_projects_encyclopedia/upload/thumb/2/26/250px-YipYip.jpg

So do you guys also support use of the iron maiden?

Bruce Dickinson as a tool for capital punishment?  Now that's something I haven't heard before. 

Bruce Dickinson as a tool for capital punishment?  Now that's something I haven't heard before. 


*snort*

Bruce Dickinson as a tool for capital punishment?  Now that's something I haven't heard before. 


::) I knew that would happen!

I personally think that Saddam Hussein was merely a pawn in the bigger picture.


Mongo only pawn in game of life.

Mongo only pawn in game of life.


I love that game.

Max and Davester's posts are always well versed and I have to say.. I'm crushin a bit on them . 

So do you guys also support use of the iron maiden?
Nah, I'm more of a guillotine man myself.

Max and Davester's posts are always well versed and I have to say.. I'm crushin a bit on them . 


  Let's go have some beer and wings...

  Max can come along, if he wants to... :P

  Let's go have some beer and wings...

  Max can come along, if he wants to... :P

I'm there.  :)

  Let's go have some beer and wings...

  Max can come along, if he wants to... :P

Ahem...we shall dine on Sauvignon Blanc and Cornish game hen...you may chauffeur the limousine.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/10/tophat.gif

wow.. Max is a classy guy. I have to say.. the beer and wings.. are more 'familiar' to me.  I'm not too handy with a corkscrew. Always get those little cork bits in the bottle.

Ahem...we shall dine on Sauvignon Blanc and Cornish game hen...you may chauffeur the limousine.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/10/tophat.gif


  Sounds good to me, lets go..! :P

wow.. Max is a classy guy. I have to say.. the beer and wings.. are more 'familiar' to me.  I'm not too handy with a corkscrew. Always get those little cork bits in the bottle.

Oh, that's OK, I'm just as happy with a screwtop bottle of Thunderbird and some beef jerky!
:P

Oh, that's OK, I'm just as happy with a screwtop bottle of Thunderbird and some beef jerky!
:P
Thunderbird!! LOL.. that's like 14% alcohol. Pretty high content for wine.

I'ma  cheapwine without a cork sorta gal.. but I'll drink the good stuff if someone else is opening it.


And fellas, I mentioned ya both way back when in Alex's now locked again, Fess up thread. Just so you don't think I'm trying to flatter ya.

So do you guys also support use of the iron maiden?


Oh Well, wherever, wherever you are,
Iron Maiden's gonna get you, no matter how far!

Oh Well, wherever, wherever you are,
Iron Maiden's gonna get you, no matter how far!


Bill and Ted:  Iron Maiden?  (pause)  EXCELLENT!!!  (air guitar)

King:  EXECUTE them!

Bill and Ted:  Bogus.

Oh Well, wherever, wherever you are,
Iron Maiden's gonna get you, no matter how far!
ha, we were doing, um, some poison song last night, and i got bored so i started doing what they used to call "indian rhythms" -- like straight 8th note palm mute pedal tones but every other one i busted up into 16th note bursts. so it's "dun, dudda dun, dudda dun," rather than just "dun dun dun dun." and we went on for a while before bass player guy looks over, is all, what's with the iron maiden, dude?

whatever, some of these songs cutting up that rhythm is the only fun i get! >:(

wait. what were we talking about?

ha, we were doing, um, some poison song last night, and i got bored so i started doing what they used to call "indian rhythms" -- like straight 8th note palm mute pedal tones but every other one i busted up into 16th note bursts. so it's "dun, dudda dun, dudda dun," rather than just "dun dun dun dun." and we went on for a while before bass player guy looks over, is all, what's with the iron maiden, dude?

whatever, some of these songs cutting up that rhythm is the only fun i get! >:(

wait. what were we talking about?


Yeah but Bass player is a midget, peg-leg troll fu.ck.

Yeah but Bass player is a midget, peg-leg troll fu.ck.
he's smart as hell about music though. i gotta give him that.

They intended on giving Saddam a quick and merciful death.  (Which is more than he gave his victims)  If they really wanted to be brutal they could have executed him like they do in Iran.  Hanging by crane.  That is a slow and painful hanging.

he's smart as hell about music though. i gotta give him that.


Meh, so are you, Kay and me.. dosen't mean we get to have a peg-leg and not be ridiculed about it.

Nah, I'm more of a guillotine man myself.



They intended on giving Saddam a quick and merciful death.  (Which is more than he gave his victims)  If they really wanted to be brutal they could have executed him like they do in Iran.  Hanging by crane.  That is a slow and painful hanging.

Hey! What about the Rack?

The rack?  I wasn't aware that there were still people around trained in that form of torture.  I was thinking of the old drawn and quartered routine.

The rack?  I wasn't aware that there were still people around trained in that form of torture.  I was thinking of the old drawn and quartered routine.


I'm available to torture people on the rack. I have one of those cool hoods with the eyeholes like executioners used to.

I'm available to torture people on the rack. I have one of those cool hoods with the eyeholes like executioners used to.

how bout a gimp hood?

how bout a gimp hood?


On Saddam? Sure.

I'm available to torture people on the rack. I have one of those cool hoods with the eyeholes like executioners used to.


OOOHHH wonderful and I have a how-to book just in case we run into some unexpected gliches. :)

OOOHHH wonderful and I have a how-to book just in case we run into some unexpected gliches. :)


Superb.

I'm gonna need to go out and get some new manacles. Who can gimmie a ride to Home Depot?

Hey! What about the Rack?
I like big racks.

I like big racks.


...and I cannot lie.

...and I cannot lie.
No other sister can deny.