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This is a topic from the Current Politics and Religious Topics forum on inthe00s.
Subject: A Christmas Poem-Sort Of
Written By: CatwomanofV on 12/15/06 at 1:55 pm
I got this in an e-mail and thought it was great so I had to share.
An Overdue Visit
'Twas the night before Christmas and all through the nation
Friends of Freedom knew it was a special occasion.
Lady Liberty stood taller just off the shore
Her torch shining brighter than a few weeks before
But it wasn't the flame turning her cheeks all rosy
It was thoughts of Snowe, Feingold and Nancy Pelosi
And leaders from every side of the aisle
Who would soon bring the Bill of Rights back into style.
The Amendments had all hurried out of their beds -
Which was no easy task, they were nearly in shreds -
And they rushed to the window on papery feet
As a jolly old man flew right over their street.
"Could it be!?" they inquired as the roof shook and trembled
And they crept toward the mantle, peaceably assembled,
Just as someone emerged from the chimney with flair
In a shiny red suit, with a shock of white hair
And a top hat, and pants all in red, white and blue -
"Wait a minute," the Amendments exclaimed, "Who are you?"
"Don't be frightened my children," he said, "it's no scam.
"You can't have forgotten your old Uncle Sam!"
"Holy crap!" said Free Speech. "Stop right there!" yelled Bear Arms
And Privacy cried "Who shut off the alarms?!"
The Fifth remained silent, but Uncle Sam said
"We've been having some trouble, but Freedom's not dead."
The Amendments were cautious. "It's just been so long
"We've seen Liberty lost, we've seen so much go wrong.
"The President's trying to mangle and warp us,
"The Fourth is in tatters, so's Habeas Corpus!"
The old man sat down - he had had quite a ride -
But he told them "Don't worry, the Law's on our side,
"'Cause the nation's fed up and more people are crying
"For Justice and an end to illegal spying,
"And secret abductions by the CIA,
"And laws that would take women's choices away,
"And Gitmo tribunals and secret detention,
"And other intrusions too numerous to mention - "
"Not so fast," said a grinchity voice from above
And Don Rumsfeld pushed past the Fourteenth with a shove.
He was covered in soot and he looked kind of scary.
It seemed like his Christmas had not been so merry.
The Amendments said they weren't happy to see him:
"You tried to throw all of us in the museum!
"You've done so much the Constitution forbids!"
"And I would have gone on, but for you meddling kids!"
Uncle Sam told him "Rummy, your plans just won't do,
"So we've got a brand new timetable for you!"
And as Rumsfeld retired and crept into the night
The Amendments cried out "Have a good secret flight!"
From the distance they heard him reply with a snort.
"Bye-bye, Rummy!" they answered, "we'll see you in court!"
Uncle Sam rode the chimney up out of the room
And, like Frosty, he said "I'll be back again soon."
But they heard him exclaim "Oh, and just one more thing!
"This year, when the holiday bells start to ring,
"Try to honor religion. Honest faith can't be wrong.
"It's America, can't we all just get along?
"So, on Christian," he cried, "Muslim, Hindu, and Jew!
"On Quaker! On Shaker! And Atheist too!
"On Buddhist! On Taoist! And to show we're not chickens
"We'll file a few lawsuits defending the Wiccans!
"Your belief is your right, so get out there and savor it.
"Uncle Sam's not a preacher, and he doesn't play favorites!"
So this holiday season, whatever you do,
Warmest wishes for Freedom, from the ACLU.
Cat
Subject: Re: A Christmas Poem-Sort Of
Written By: philbo on 12/21/06 at 3:27 pm
:)
Well, I liked it - it got a lot better towards the end.
Subject: Re: A Christmas Poem-Sort Of
Written By: CatwomanofV on 12/21/06 at 5:01 pm
:)
Well, I liked it - it got a lot better towards the end.
I liked it, too. That is why I posted it.
BTW, welcome back. We missed you.
Cat
Subject: Re: A Christmas Poem-Sort Of
Written By: philbo on 12/21/06 at 5:09 pm
Thanks, Cat :)
Good to be back - had a pain of a time switching ISPs. A long story that I don't want to go into right now...
Subject: Re: A Christmas Poem-Sort Of
Written By: John Jenkins on 12/29/06 at 8:16 pm
Excellent poem, but I would like to challenge two points:
Verse 6 implies that "privacy" is part of the Bill of Rights. Where?
Verse 7 suggests that Habeas Corpus should be protected at any cost. During the Civil War, Abraham Lincoln, one of the United States' most esteemed presidents, suspended Habeas Corpus. During the current War on Terror, Habeas Corpus has been suspended for noncitizens determined to be unlawful enemy compatants. The bill that affirmed the suspension of Habeas Corpus in these limited circumstances, the Military Commision Act of 2006, was passed mostly by Republicans, but it did have the support of 12 Democrats in the Senate and 32 Democrats in the House of Representatives. I know that it did not have the support of the ACLU, and perhaps Habeas Corpus protection should not be taken away from unlawful enemy compatants; but it is a distortion of the facts to claim that Habeas Corpus is in tatters. And it is also a distortion to imply that President Bush did it single-handedly.
Subject: Re: A Christmas Poem-Sort Of
Written By: CatwomanofV on 12/29/06 at 8:38 pm
Excellent poem, but I would like to challenge two points:
Verse 6 implies that "privacy" is part of the Bill of Rights. Where?
Verse 7 suggests that Habeas Corpus should be protected at any cost. During the Civil War, Abraham Lincoln, one of the United States' most esteemed presidents, suspended Habeas Corpus. During the current War on Terror, Habeas Corpus has been suspended for noncitizens determined to be unlawful enemy compatants. The bill that affirmed the suspension of Habeas Corpus in these limited circumstances, the Military Commision Act of 2006, was passed mostly by Republicans, but it did have the support of 12 Democrats in the Senate and 32 Democrats in the House of Representatives. I know that it did not have the support of the ACLU, and perhaps Habeas Corpus protection should not be taken away from unlawful enemy compatants; but it is a distortion of the facts to claim that Habeas Corpus is in tatters. And it is also a distortion to imply that President Bush did it single-handedly.
I just copied the poem-I didn't write it.
However, privacy is in the Bill of Rights:
Amendment IV - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
I do agree that Bush did not suspend Habeas Corpus alone. Who is more of a fool, the fool himself or the ones who follow the fool?
Cat
Subject: Re: A Christmas Poem-Sort Of
Written By: philbo on 12/30/06 at 10:10 am
During the current War on Terror, Habeas Corpus has been suspended for noncitizens determined to be unlawful enemy compatants.
So who does the "determining"? And doesn't this really mean for non-citizens suspected of being such, as evidence is not always, well, evident?
Do you not find it hypocritical that it's OK to lock up non-citizens suspected of being "unlawful combatants", but not US citizens? In the UK, David Blunkett's attempt to use immigration legislation against suspected foreign terrorists was found to be illegal as it required a lower standard of proof for such people and was therefore discriminatory. Such practices are not a help when trying to convince people that you're the good guys.
Subject: Re: A Christmas Poem-Sort Of
Written By: John Jenkins on 12/30/06 at 3:23 pm
So who does the "determining"? And doesn't this really mean for non-citizens suspected of being such, as evidence is not always, well, evident?
Do you not find it hypocritical that it's OK to lock up non-citizens suspected of being "unlawful combatants", but not US citizens? In the UK, David Blunkett's attempt to use immigration legislation against suspected foreign terrorists was found to be illegal as it required a lower standard of proof for such people and was therefore discriminatory. Such practices are not a help when trying to convince people that you're the good guys.
Thank you for keeping me honest, Philbo.
Instead of writing that Habeas Corpus had been suspended, it would have been more accurate to point out that what Congress did was to restore the scope of Habeas Corpus to what had been established in the United States Constitution and affirmed by a 1950 Supreme Court case. Who are the people who question whether "you're the good guys?" Is their opinion more important than the fact that another 9/11-type terrorist attack has not occurred in the United States in the last 5 years?
Subject: Re: A Christmas Poem-Sort Of
Written By: philbo on 12/30/06 at 4:38 pm
Thank you for keeping me honest, Philbo.
I'm sure that wasn't the intention ;)
Who are the people who question whether "you're the good guys?" Is their opinion more important than the fact that another 9/11-type terrorist attack has not occurred in the United States in the last 5 years?
The problem with fighting terrorism and terrorists is that it's all very well to lock up anyone you suspect may be a terrorist, but that's a very good way of turning moderate voices into extreme ones. Unfortunately, it won't make even the smallest iota of difference now, as the overwhelming majority of the Arab Muslim population is more likely to believe anti-American lies than anything good about the US - so you might just as well lock 'em all up and throw away the key as even if you don't, majority opinion in the terrorist farms will believe you're doing that anyway.
Subject: Re: A Christmas Poem-Sort Of
Written By: John Jenkins on 12/30/06 at 5:15 pm
I don't really disagree with you, Philbo. In my original post, I did not defend what is happening in Guantanamo Bay. I just pointed out that the poem was distorting the circumstances by claiming that Habeas Corpus is in tatters. And I'm not really defending George Bush, but he is in a no-win situation with his critics. Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus for American citizens, and he is considered one of America's greatest presidents. George Bush refuses to extend Habeas Corpus to non-citizens, and he is considered a fascist. George Bush detains suspected terrorists at Guantanamo Bay and he is criticized for creating anti-American sentiment. But, if he were not doing this and one of them perpetrated an act of terrorism in the United States; he would be criticized for not having taken action.
Subject: Re: A Christmas Poem-Sort Of
Written By: philbo on 12/30/06 at 5:55 pm
Likewise, I don't really disagree with you either.
But... Lincoln suspended habeas corpus for American citizens? The fascist! ;)
Subject: Re: A Christmas Poem-Sort Of
Written By: CatwomanofV on 12/30/06 at 6:53 pm
I don't really disagree with you, Philbo. In my original post, I did not defend what is happening in Guantanamo Bay. I just pointed out that the poem was distorting the circumstances by claiming that Habeas Corpus is in tatters. And I'm not really defending George Bush, but he is in a no-win situation with his critics. Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus for American citizens, and he is considered one of America's greatest presidents. George Bush refuses to extend Habeas Corpus to non-citizens, and he is considered a fascist. George Bush detains suspected terrorists at Guantanamo Bay and he is criticized for creating anti-American sentiment. But, if he were not doing this and one of them perpetrated an act of terrorism in the United States; he would be criticized for not having taken action.
Just because Abe did it, doesn't make it right.
Cat
Subject: Re: A Christmas Poem-Sort Of
Written By: John Jenkins on 12/31/06 at 11:28 am
But... Lincoln suspended habeas corpus for American citizens? The fascist! ;)
Oh yeah? So was Winston Churchill! ;)
Subject: Re: A Christmas Poem-Sort Of
Written By: philbo on 01/02/07 at 6:43 am
Oh yeah? So was Winston Churchill! ;)
Yes, I know. But he was our fascist ;)
Does make you wonder, though, especially with Churchill when you look at his record in Ireland, that it wouldn't be so far-fetched to see him being tried as a war criminal if he were to try and repeat some of the things he did in today's climate..