Basically, let's call my friend A. Her friend, E., a former friend of mine who has become a massive Eastern Religions nut druggie in the past few years, asked her to procure four Xanax pills for him. She did, from K., whose father is a doctor. She passed it along to D. to give to E. in school. However, E. promptly took all four Xanax at once in order to induce a recreational "high" effect in the school bathroom. He went back to class, started a somnolent state, and admitted that A. and D. gave it to him to the school authorities. Of course, standing by him, A. and D. and K. admitted it.

She was suspended for seven days, will be a convicted felon in juvenile court, will have to complete counseling and community service, and will have her privileges revoked for the rest of the year, her last year, though she will be allowed to graduate with her class. No clubs, no dances, no field trips. Basically, what they're doing to her, E., and D. (who will have their privileges suspended for the rest of their junior year), is making examples of them. No mind that people have done far worse things outside and inside of school. But our a*swipe principal has to make an example of her. She will be a criminal inside school as a "drug dealer", all the teachers and students will know, etc. I stayed home from school today because I think, if I came in, I would start screaming at the principal. As satisfying as that would be, it would f*ck things up for me in my last year-and-a-half at my high school royally, and I don't think she'd want that.

Basically, let's call my friend A. Her friend, E., a former friend of mine who has become a massive Eastern Religions nut druggie in the past few years, asked her to procure four Xanax pills for him. She did, from K., whose father is a doctor. She passed it along to D. to give to E. in school. However, E. promptly took all four Xanax at once in order to induce a recreational "high" effect in the school bathroom. He went back to class, started a somnolent state, and admitted that A. and D. gave it to him to the school authorities. Of course, standing by him, A. and D. and K. admitted it.


Sorry, but no sympathy here.  Xanax is a barbiturate, and is a controlled substance.  And I would think no differently if the drug was ritalin, viagra, codine, or any other perscription medication.

However, I am curious as to what is going to happen to the doctor.  He is breaking a clear law, in illegally distributing controlled medication.

And the student admitted doing it to "get high".  So how is this in any way different then if the drug in question was Heroin?  Or LSD?  And illegal drug is an illegal drug.  And in this case, we are talking about an illegal drug.

Sorry, no sympathy from me either. She was a complete and utter idiot, she got caught she has to pay the price. Quite frankly she's damn lucky they are letting her finish school, she would have been out on her sorry backside if that had happened at my school.

Can't say that I feel any deep sympathy either....bad enough that a person would do that on their own time, much less when they're in school and know they'll be scrutinized.

She should consider herself lucky she didn't get expelled permanently.

How can you get loaded off of 4 xanax? I used to take 2-3 quite often and still not sleep. I eventually made the switch to Ambien (ya know, the sleep walking drug) now that stuff knocks your ass out.

JUst retarded to do it at school, back in the day, when we got high, we'd just skip school.

How can you get loaded off of 4 xanax? I used to take 2-3 quite often and still not sleep. I eventually made the switch to Ambien (ya know, the sleep walking drug) now that stuff knocks your ass out.


Like most drugs, a person builds up a tolerance for it.  This means that the more and longer they use a drug, the more it takes to get a "high".  This is true for caffeine and nicotene (my 2 addictions), as well as alcohol, cocaine, amphetamines, barbiturates (like Xanax), and heroin.  The more and longer you take them, the more it takes to get a high.

The only drug I know of that acts opposite of this is marijuanna.  Because THC builds up in the bodies fat cells, chronic users actually need less of the drug over time.  This is why new smokers can smoke bowls full and feel nothing, while the chronic "pot head" can take just a few puffs and get a buzz.  The release of THC stimulates the fat cells to release some of their THC.

LSD works in a similar way, because it also stores itself in fat cells.  It is the release of LSD from one of these cells that causes "flashbacks" even years later.

While it may not have been the brightest thing to do, I don't understand why A is the one being most severely reprimanded.  I would think that they all deserve the same punishment.  If an ambulance was called, I don't think the school has much say in what happens.  I know my school district has a "zero tolerance" policy and if something like this happens on school property, they HAVE to notify the police and all students involved would be suspended and would have no say in what the "authorities" chose to do regarding criminal charges.  Hopefully, A is a minor so this one moment of stupidity won't follow her around the rest of her life as her juvenile records should be sealed.... 

Like Andy said, E was pretty stupid to do it at school.  My friends and I have given/received "stuff", but we were smart enough to NOT do any of it at school. 

Like Andy said, E was pretty stupid to do it at school.  My friends and I have given/received "stuff", but we were smart enough to NOT do any of it at school. 


Right, we used to score stuff at school, but not do it there, no point.

I agree, it was totally stupid. HOWEVER, I do feel sympathy for her, because I know her quite well.

I agree, it was totally stupid. HOWEVER, I do feel sympathy for her, because I know her quite well.


But she is in the situation she is in because of her own actions.  I simply do not feel sympathy for people who do stupid things.  No more then I feel sympathy for other criminals.

Nobody held a gun to her head and made her take the pills.  Nobody forced her to try and get high.

And people then question my hard-line stance against drugs.

But she is in the situation she is in because of her own actions.  I simply do not feel sympathy for people who do stupid things.  No more then I feel sympathy for other criminals.

Nobody held a gun to her head and made her take the pills.  Nobody forced her to try and get high.

And people then question my hard-line stance against drugs.


You also totally misread my account of what happened. She did not take the pills. She did not get high. That is not what happened. Go back and read it again before you get on your high horse.

You also totally misread my account of what happened. She did not take the pills. She did not get high. That is not what happened. Go back and read it again before you get on your high horse.


I love you, man.

(he didn't even thank me for the Christmas card I sent him :P)

Well, I do feel sympathy for your friend.  I have made several bad judgment calls from my youth through this very year that have cost me dearly.   There's an old saying, goes "Dame Experience runs a hard school and a fool will learn no other way."  That was my school!  Your friend probably did not know how serious providers and law enforcement are about the "control" in "controlled substances."  I take Klonopin (in the benzodiazepine family, like Xanax), last year I had a month of absolutely horrific stress and took more than my scrip allowed.  My nurse practitioner went bonkers when she found out.  Nothing I said in my defense made any difference.  Everybody is really touchy about controlled substances, especially the ones with habit-forming potential, such as benzodiazepines and opiates. 

When I say your friend made a stupid mistake, I say so with empathy, not contempt!  Every time I hear a story such as this, I wish I could have been there to tell the person, "Nooooo, don't do that!" 

I do say a lot of times punishments doled out for minor drug offenses are over the top.  I also say Xanax is a dangerous drug.  Overdose can be fatal.  Some people also have terrible allergic reactions to benzodiazepines.  Don't mess around!

I'm not sure whether or not felony drug convictions in juvenile court carry over on your proverbial "permanent record."  Her folks should probably talk to a lawyer. 

I feel no sympathy for her.  She's an idiot and idiots get what's coming to them.  That one kid's dad should have his license to practice medicine suspended.  If this happened in my sister's high school, the kids would have been expelled and none of them would have been allowed to return to a Fulton County school.  In case you're wondering what that means...if you're expelled from one Fulton County H.S., you can't go to another one.  You'd have to go to another school in another county.  If that had happened in my H.S.....she would have been expelled, but not before being carted from the premises in handcuffs.


So....she should consider herself lucky she is where she is.  God, why are so many teenagers so f*cking stupid?

I feel no sympathy for her.  She's an idiot and idiots get what's coming to them.  That one kid's dad should have his license to practice medicine suspended.  If this happened in my sister's high school, the kids would have been expelled and none of them would have been allowed to return to a Fulton County school.  In case you're wondering what that means...if you're expelled from one Fulton County H.S., you can't go to another one.  You'd have to go to another school in another county.  If that had happened in my H.S.....she would have been expelled, but not before being carted from the premises in handcuffs.


So....she should consider herself lucky she is where she is.  God, why are so many teenagers so f*cking stupid?

You tell 'em, sister!  Cast that first stone!  After all, you have no iniquities and nothing to fear!

"Morphine," eh?

You tell 'em, sister!  Cast that first stone!  After all, you have no iniquities and nothing to fear!

"Morphine," eh?



Well, I have no iniquities in response to abusing prescription drugs.  It's the same opinion (for the most part) that other people expressed here, so go bother them for awhile and get off my ass.  And who said I have nothing to fear?  I have plenty of phobias.....I've discussed a couple of them here.

And yeah, Morphine as in a Rolling Stones song.  I'm getting tired of having to explain this to you every time you feel the need to make some lame joke about it.  My username doesn't reflect my opinions on anyone or any subject.  I think that's pretty obvious by now.

I'm sure the policies concerning drug use, distribution, etc., were all explained in detail at the school at the start of the year, including a hard copy given to every student at the school.

It was ignored (obviously) and she got busted because somebody else was stupid and didn't think they had to follow the rules either.  Whining about how it isn't "fair", too "harsh" a punishment is BULL, plain and simple.  They broke the rules, they pay the price.  Welcome to the real world and not some fantasy crap.  This is adulthood, she (they) consciously made the decision to not abide by the rules and got busted, ain't real life a bitch??

It doesn't matter if anybody believes the rules are too harsh or otherwise, they are the rules.  If they were deemed too harsh, I'm sure some whining parent would have made a hissy fit long before the rule ever got enforced.

Well, I do feel sympathy for your friend.  I have made several bad judgment calls from my youth through this very year that have cost me dearly.   There's an old saying, goes "Dame Experience runs a hard school and a fool will learn no other way."  That was my school!  Your friend probably did not know how serious providers and law enforcement are about the "control" in "controlled substances."  I take Klonopin (in the benzodiazepine family, like Xanax), last year I had a month of absolutely horrific stress and took more than my scrip allowed.  My nurse practitioner went bonkers when she found out.  Nothing I said in my defense made any difference.  Everybody is really touchy about controlled substances, especially the ones with habit-forming potential, such as benzodiazepines and opiates. 

When I say your friend made a stupid mistake, I say so with empathy, not contempt!  Every time I hear a story such as this, I wish I could have been there to tell the person, "Nooooo, don't do that!" 

I do say a lot of times punishments doled out for minor drug offenses are over the top.  I also say Xanax is a dangerous drug.  Overdose can be fatal.  Some people also have terrible allergic reactions to benzodiazepines.  Don't mess around!

I'm not sure whether or not felony drug convictions in juvenile court carry over on your proverbial "permanent record."  Her folks should probably talk to a lawyer. 


Same with me. It was a stupid mistake. I told her this, out of empathy and not contempt. What was stupider of her was that she cried in the main office for three hours, cracked, and she, D., and K., being terrified kids, admitted that they gave it to E. In hindsight, however good friends with him they were, they should've saved their own skins and not corroborated that they supplied him with it. What E. did endangered not only himself but his suppliers, and E., as someone who has tried every drug under the sun excluding meth and heroin, should have known enough not to take it in school. No ambulance was called, but he did take enough Xanax to get a high. I was angry at her only because what she did endangered herself, and I wish I could have stopped her, and because, possibly, it could have endangered E.'s health in a more serious sense.

Her folks do have a lawyer. Her father is one, as is D.'s. She would rather have had expulsion than be treated as a criminal in her last seven months in high school and have everyone know what she did. The fact is, the school needs to save their ass, because they know stuff like this goes on all the time with more experienced dealers, but they need to save face by punishing in a conspicuous manner those people who did it the one time they caught it. And she didn't even take money for the four pills! The fact is, their lives are now f*cked up forever due to my town's high school. This one mistake will make them bitter, and will follow them forever.

SM: You're not worth my time and attention. The only thing I have to say is: you'd feel differently if you'd ever made a mistake that came back to bite you in the ass later.

To exoslayer-Suspension of privileges is not in the school rule book. It is not the rules, or anywhere under the law for this crime. It was dreamed up for this. Anyways, none of them are whining about it. They're fine, but angry. Trust me. They're fine.

Well, I have no iniquities in response to abusing prescription drugs.  It's the same opinion (for the most part) that other people expressed here, so go bother them for awhile and get off my ass.  And who said I have nothing to fear?  I have plenty of phobias.....I've discussed a couple of them here.

And yeah, Morphine as in a Rolling Stones song.  I'm getting tired of having to explain this to you every time you feel the need to make some lame joke about it.  My username doesn't reflect my opinions on anyone or any subject.  I think that's pretty obvious by now.

Yeah, "Sister Morphine" is a great song, I like it too.  It means something to me, and if you have such a contemptuous attitude towards people with substance abuse problems, I wish you would pick another screen name.  

SISTER MORPHINE
Here I lie in my hospital bed
Tell me, Sister Morphine, when are you coming round again?
Oh, I don't think I can wait that long
Oh, you see that I'm not that strong
The scream of the ambulance is sounding in my ears
Tell me, Sister Morphine, how long have I been lying here?
What am I doing in this place?
Why does the doctor have no face?
Oh, I can't crawl across the floor
Ah, can't you see, Sister Morphine, I'm trying to score
Well it just goes to show
Things are not what they seem
Please, Sister Morphine, turn my nightmares into dreams
Oh, can't you see I'm fading fast?
And that this shot will be my last
Sweet Cousin Cocaine, lay your cool cool hand on my head
Ah, come on, Sister Morphine, you better make up my bed
'Cause you know and I know in the morning I'll be dead
Yeah, and you can sit around, yeah and you can watch all the
Clean white sheets stained red.

The fact is, their lives are now f*cked up forever due to my town's high school. This one mistake will make them bitter, and will follow them forever.

To exoslayer-Suspension of privileges is not in the school rule book. It is not the rules, or anywhere under the law for this crime. It was dreamed up for this.


Wrong!!  Their lives are marked now not because of your towns high school, but rather those kids deciding the rules didn't apply to them.  If this girl who got into trouble was a level headed individual, why did she not possess the smarts required to not get involved? 

You expect me to believe that your school has no written policy concerning drug use or distribution??

Wrong!!  Their lives are marked now not because of your towns high school, but rather those kids deciding the rules didn't apply to them.  If this girl who got into trouble was a level headed individual, why did she not possess the smarts required to not get involved? 

You expect me to believe that your school has no written policy concerning drug use or distribution??


But this has made me hate the system, that will ruin the life of someone for one mistake, who also happens to be the most saintly person I've ever known in so many ways. I stayed home from school today because I think I would have screamed at the principal, and other school staff members who let horrible things go on and then pick one thing and persecute it to the fullest degree in order to save their fat asses. And that would f*ck up my life, almost as much as the time I called my elementary school principal "stupid" in 6th grade.

I'm sure the policies concerning drug use, distribution, etc., were all explained in detail at the school at the start of the year, including a hard copy given to every student at the school.

It was ignored (obviously) and she got busted because somebody else was stupid and didn't think they had to follow the rules either.  Whining about how it isn't "fair", too "harsh" a punishment is BULL, plain and simple.  They broke the rules, they pay the price.  Welcome to the real world and not some fantasy crap.  This is adulthood, she (they) consciously made the decision to not abide by the rules and got busted, ain't real life a bitch??

It doesn't matter if anybody believes the rules are too harsh or otherwise, they are the rules.  If they were deemed too harsh, I'm sure some whining parent would have made a hissy fit long before the rule ever got enforced.

I would hold your position in higher esteem if indeed we all had to pay the same prices regardless of race, class, or wealth.
http://mediamatters.org/static/images/tv_clips/rush-limbaugh.jpg

I would hold your position in higher esteem if indeed we all had to pay the same prices regardless of race, class, or wealth.
http://mediamatters.org/static/images/tv_clips/rush-limbaugh.jpg


Thankfully, it could be alot worse; they could be poor!

It was a really stupid thing to do, however, I do feel bad that the girl has to go through this. Yes, she brought it upon herself...but, how many of us did stupid things when we were young too...I know I did...and I learned from my mistakes. I'm sure she will never think of doing this again.

Same with me. It was a stupid mistake. I told her this, out of empathy and not contempt. What was stupider of her was that she cried in the main office for three hours, cracked, and she, D., and K., being terrified kids, admitted that they gave it to E. In hindsight, however good friends with him they were, they should've saved their own skins and not corroborated that they supplied him with it. What E. did endangered not only himself but his suppliers, and E., as someone who has tried every drug under the sun excluding meth and heroin, should have known enough not to take it in school. No ambulance was called, but he did take enough Xanax to get a high. I was angry at her only because what she did endangered herself, and I wish I could have stopped her, and because, possibly, it could have endangered E.'s health in a more serious sense.

Her folks do have a lawyer. Her father is one, as is D.'s. She would rather have had expulsion than be treated as a criminal in her last seven months in high school and have everyone know what she did. The fact is, the school needs to save their ass, because they know stuff like this goes on all the time with more experienced dealers, but they need to save face by punishing in a conspicuous manner those people who did it the one time they caught it. And she didn't even take money for the four pills! The fact is, their lives are now f*cked up forever due to my town's high school. This one mistake will make them bitter, and will follow them forever.

SM: You're not worth my time and attention. The only thing I have to say is: you'd feel differently if you'd ever made a mistake that came back to bite you in the ass later.

To exoslayer-Suspension of privileges is not in the school rule book. It is not the rules, or anywhere under the law for this crime. It was dreamed up for this. Anyways, none of them are whining about it. They're fine, but angry. Trust me. They're fine.

"Terrified kids."  I was one when I got busted with pot on pot.  I was legally an adult at eighteen, but I was pretty dang naive.  I was downtown still baked having heart palpitations while the cops were trying to get me to rat out the dealer.  I was looking at life through a new lens, and it sure wasn't pretty!  Turns out the young man from whom I bought the weed had the same court date as I.  He got busted just hours after he sold the sh*t to me.  I was the last customer in his dope-dealing career.  Anyway, the judge just slapped my wrist with six months probation and a warning to "stay out of trouble."  And I did.  The thing is, even though I was 18, it was a first offense, and the lawyer told me the record would be sealed.  I thought it was.  Then when I got busted earlier this year with a revoked license, the cop who was booking me said, "Hey, what about this arrest for marijuana possession?"  I thought he had the wrong dude again (he'd also asked my about defaulted child support payments...uhhhh, did somebody forget to tell me something?), then I remembered!  I replied,
"That was nineteen eighty-eight, was it?"
;D

I would hold your position in higher esteem if indeed we all had to pay the same prices regardless of race, class, or wealth.
http://mediamatters.org/static/images/tv_clips/rush-limbaugh.jpg


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i298/esoxslayer/slickwillie.jpg

Maybe you're right.......

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i298/esoxslayer/slickwillie.jpg

Maybe you're right.......

Cigars aren't against the law!
:P

I take Klonopin (in the benzodiazepine family, like Xanax), last year I had a month of absolutely horrific stress and took more than my scrip allowed.  My nurse practitioner went bonkers when she found out.  Nothing I said in my defense made any difference.  Everybody is really touchy about controlled substances, especially the ones with habit-forming potential, such as benzodiazepines and opiates. 


I know what you mean there Max.  In 1996, my fiancee had her C-section scar become infected.  This resulted in her having to go to the clinic 2 times a day to have it irrigated and packed.  And at the time this happened (about 1 week after the birth of our son), she was nursing.

For almost a week, she was having this procedure done without any anesthetic at all.  I can only imagine the pain she was going through.  Finally after a week, she could not take the pain any more, and started to accept Demerol.  But because of this, she had to stop nursing.  After another week of this, I had a doctor pull me to the side, and he actually told me that he thought she was addicted to Demerol, because she was comming in 2 times a day for it!

Now this was not the "attending physician", but a paper-pusher doctor, who only knew of her by her chart.  I told him she was full of crap, and invited him to go in and look at her wound.  I then told him that I was with her as she went through the procedure for a week without any medication at all (and had the bruises on my arm to prove how hard she was trying to "squeeze out the pain").  And after that, I really got nasty, and told him off in very colourfull language where he could put his papers and files - since he did not even bother to consult the attending before making this decision.

He never brought it up again, and every time he saw me after that, he would quickly make himself scarce.  I have never had any tolerance for beaurocrats.


(he didn't even thank me for the Christmas card I sent him :P)


I am sorry about that, and I was glad to see it.  I have no apology for not thinking you earlier, other then I have been busy, and I kept forgetting to do so.


But this has made me hate the system, that will ruin the life of someone for one mistake, who also happens to be the most saintly person I've ever known in so many ways.


Hopefully this will not mess up her life.  I have long advocated giving people involved in drugs a "second chance".  And your first post does not make it really clear what happened, because so many people were involved.  But she was involved in "drug trafficing".  If nothing else, it does snow very poor judgement to do it on or around a school campus.

And I am still curious as to what will happen to the doctor.  Sounds like he has some serious issues as well, to perscribe barbituates without a perscription through a teenager.  An incredible lapse of judgement at the very least.

Well, I do feel sympathy for your friend.  I have made several bad judgment calls from my youth through this very year that have cost me dearly.  There's an old saying, goes "Dame Experience runs a hard school and a fool will learn no other way."  That was my school!  Your friend probably did not know how serious providers and law enforcement are about the "control" in "controlled substances."  I take Klonopin (in the benzodiazepine family, like Xanax), last year I had a month of absolutely horrific stress and took more than my scrip allowed.  My nurse practitioner went bonkers when she found out.  Nothing I said in my defense made any difference.  Everybody is really touchy about controlled substances, especially the ones with habit-forming potential, such as benzodiazepines and opiates. 

When I say your friend made a stupid mistake, I say so with empathy, not contempt!  Every time I hear a story such as this, I wish I could have been there to tell the person, "Nooooo, don't do that!" 

I do say a lot of times punishments doled out for minor drug offenses are over the top.  I also say Xanax is a dangerous drug.  Overdose can be fatal.  Some people also have terrible allergic reactions to benzodiazepines.  Don't mess around!

I'm not sure whether or not felony drug convictions in juvenile court carry over on your proverbial "permanent record."  Her folks should probably talk to a lawyer. 



I agree with you on this, Max. It sounds like she is being forced to wear the letter "A" (or in this case a letter "P" ?).  Yes, she made a HUGH mistake. Which of us hasn't? But to make her life a living hell for the rest of the school year for it? It does sounds a bit extreme. I'm not saying that she shouldn't be punished but I think the punishment should fit the crime.

She may want to think about changing schools or just dropping out and getting her G.E.D.




Cat

I know what you mean there Max.  In 1996, my fiancee had her C-section scar become infected.  This resulted in her having to go to the clinic 2 times a day to have it irrigated and packed.  And at the time this happened (about 1 week after the birth of our son), she was nursing.

For almost a week, she was having this procedure done without any anesthetic at all.  I can only imagine the pain she was going through.  Finally after a week, she could not take the pain any more, and started to accept Demerol.  But because of this, she had to stop nursing.  After another week of this, I had a doctor pull me to the side, and he actually told me that he thought she was addicted to Demerol, because she was comming in 2 times a day for it!

Now this was not the "attending physician", but a paper-pusher doctor, who only knew of her by her chart.  I told him she was full of crap, and invited him to go in and look at her wound.  I then told him that I was with her as she went through the procedure for a week without any medication at all (and had the bruises on my arm to prove how hard she was trying to "squeeze out the pain").  And after that, I really got nasty, and told him off in very colourfull language where he could put his papers and files - since he did not even bother to consult the attending before making this decision.

He never brought it up again, and every time he saw me after that, he would quickly make himself scarce.  I have never had any tolerance for beaurocrats.

I am sorry about that, and I was glad to see it.  I have no apology for not thinking you earlier, other then I have been busy, and I kept forgetting to do so.

Hopefully this will not mess up her life.  I have long advocated giving people involved in drugs a "second chance".  And your first post does not make it really clear what happened, because so many people were involved.  But she was involved in "drug trafficing".  If nothing else, it does snow very poor judgement to do it on or around a school campus.

And I am still curious as to what will happen to the doctor.  Sounds like he has some serious issues as well, to perscribe barbituates without a perscription through a teenager.  An incredible lapse of judgement at the very least.


They were not prescribed to K. His father has a home practice and K. got them from his cabinet. Thank you for softening your voice a little bit on this...I had a different opinion on this sort of thing before I knew somebody who this happened to. When you know somebody who it happens to, it makes you much more empathetic towards people who it happens to. Alot of my anger over it is that there are people who make hundreds of dollars a week off reselling illegal drugs to students here, and they caught somebody who gave away a small amount of a controlled substance for free!?

She would rather have taken an expulsion and gotten a G.E.D. than wear a "scarlet letter" for the rest of the year. However, we're all showing solidarity with her. Good reference, Cat!

Another friend of mine was busted for smoking pot in a parked car on the same weekend. She's just getting community service. That punishment I don't disagree with!

The only thing I have to say is: you'd feel differently if you'd ever made a mistake that came back to bite you in the ass later.


I've done that many a time.  So that shows what you know about me.  Just because I have no sympathy for your friend, just like other people who have posted here, doesn't mean I've never done something stupid in my own life.  I've just never done something stupid in my own life involving prescription drugs.  And I said what I said about mine and my sister's H.S's to illustrate the fact your friend is lucky she goes to the school she goes to.  If she went elsewhere, her situation could be far worse.

They were not prescribed to K. His father has a home practice and K. got them from his cabinet. Thank you for softening your voice a little bit on this...I had a different opinion on this sort of thing before I knew somebody who this happened to. When you know somebody who it happens to, it makes you much more empathetic towards people who it happens to. Alot of my anger over it is that there are people who make hundreds of dollars a week off reselling illegal drugs to students here, and they caught somebody who gave away a small amount of a controlled substance for free!?

She would rather have taken an expulsion and gotten a G.E.D. than wear a "scarlet letter" for the rest of the year. However, we're all showing solidarity with her. Good reference, Cat!

Another friend of mine was busted for smoking pot in a parked car on the same weekend. She's just getting community service. That punishment I don't disagree with!


^ The reason for the harsher punishment might have been the gal who was smoking pot was only busted for possession, whereas your other friend was busted for distribution. I wouldn't call handing four Xanax tabs to a friend "drug trafficking."  I'm not sure "trafficking" is even the proper legal term here.  Anyway, they do make a bigger deal about "distribution," and "intent to distribute" than simple possession.  

Incidentally, many years before I got busted for weed, my older sister also go busted.  She and a bunch of her friends where sitting in a parked car and passing a bowl around.  Cop tapped on the window and that was that.  They were all minors, except for Jim, who was wearing his Air Force jacket, which the cops had something to say about!

Sorry, but no sympathy here.  Xanax is a barbiturate, and is a controlled substance.  And I would think no differently if the drug was ritalin, viagra, codine, or any other perscription medication.

However, I am curious as to what is going to happen to the doctor.  He is breaking a clear law, in illegally distributing controlled medication.

And the student admitted doing it to "get high".  So how is this in any way different then if the drug in question was Heroin?  Or LSD?  And illegal drug is an illegal drug.  And in this case, we are talking about an illegal drug.

//And people then question my hard-line stance against drugs.


Mushroom, usually I can accept your viewpoint if not also agree on it, but not so here. Asking how Xanax (a schedule 4 drug) is different from Heroin or LSD (both schedule 1 drugs), and then in the next sentence basically saying they are all the same shows how little real world knowledge you have on drugs. Possessing a schedule 4 drug without a prescription is a light misdemeanor at best. Millions take it and have prescriptions for it.  Possesing heroin or LSD is a felony in the US, and both have no legitimate or acceptable medical usage.

Xanax is not a barbituate, it is a benzodiazepine.


LSD works in a similar way, because it also stores itself in fat cells.  It is the release of LSD from one of these cells that causes "flashbacks" even years later.


Your claim that LSD stored in fat may cause flashbacks years later is laughable. 

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_myth1.shtml


But she is in the situation she is in because of her own actions.  I simply do not feel sympathy for people who do stupid things.  No more then I feel sympathy for other criminals.

Nobody held a gun to her head and made her take the pills.  Nobody forced her to try and get high.

And people then question my hard-line stance against drugs.


I agree with you there, but when you post factually incorrect information, yes, I am going to question those facts. I also question your apparent grouping of all illegal or illegally obtained drugs into simply "illegal drugs", as if all of those drugs are equally dangerous or addictive.

To help you understand better, let me turn your "And illegal drug is an illegal drug" statement around this way: Poison ivy is a posion. Ricin is a poison. If anyone who isn't suicidal had to choose between eating 6 poison ivy leaves or 6 ricin beans, they'd choose the former.

Just out of curiousity, would you have condoned (or at least been indifferent to) those using MDMA in 1984, and condemned its use by mid-1985?

Mushroom, usually I can accept your viewpoint if not also agree on it, but not so here. Asking how Xanax (a schedule 4 drug) is different from Heroin or LSD (both schedule 1 drugs), and then in the next sentence basically saying they are all the same shows how little real world knowledge you have on drugs. Possessing a schedule 4 drug without a prescription is a light misdemeanor at best. Millions take it and have prescriptions for it.  Possesing heroin or LSD is a felony in the US, and both have no legitimate or acceptable medical usage.

Xanax is not a barbituate, it is a benzodiazepine.

Your claim that LSD stored in fat may cause flashbacks years later is laughable. 

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_myth1.shtml

I agree with you there, but when you post factually incorrect information, yes, I am going to question those facts. I also question your apparent grouping of all illegal or illegally obtained drugs into simply "illegal drugs", as if all of those drugs are equally dangerous or addictive.

To help you understand better, let me turn your "And illegal drug is an illegal drug" statement around this way: Poison ivy is a posion. Ricin is a poison. If anyone who isn't suicidal had to choose between eating 6 poison ivy leaves or 6 ricin beans, they'd choose the former.

Just out of curiousity, would you have condoned (or at least been indifferent to) those using MDMA in 1984, and condemned its use by mid-1985?

I should emphasize, overdose on benzodiapines can be fatal, but rarely is unless taken with a lot of booze or other antidepressants.  It was the older barbiturates you mentioned that were far more likely to lead to fatal overdose and were a much "better" high for recreational use.  Barbiturates are still around, but less commonly prescribed since Valium hit the market in the early '60s.
Of course, Valium became notorious for dependence ("Mother's Little Helper"), but you were less likely to end up on a slab than with the old barbiturate/Martini combo!

I didn't know anybody still believed LSD recessed itself in your fat cells and manifested as "flashbacks" twenty years later!  ("Reefer Madness" anyone?)

It also annoys me how in legal parlance all kinds of illicit substances are generalized as "narcotics." 
LSD, marijuana, and cocaine are not "narcotics," but that's what the cops call them!
::)

I should emphasize, overdose on benzodiapines can be fatal, but rarely is unless taken with a lot of booze or other antidepressants.  It was the older barbiturates you mentioned that were far more likely to lead to fatal overdose and were a much "better" high for recreational use.  Barbiturates are still around, but less commonly prescribed since Valium hit the market in the early '60s.
Of course, Valium became notorious for dependence ("Mother's Little Helper"), but you were less likely to end up on a slab than with the old barbiturate/Martini combo!

I didn't know anybody still believed LSD recessed itself in your fat cells and manifested as "flashbacks" twenty years later!  ("Reefer Madness" anyone?)

It also annoys me how in legal parlance all kinds of illicit substances are generalized as "narcotics." 
LSD, marijuana, and cocaine are not "narcotics," but that's what the cops call them!
::)


I have taken small amounts of benzodiazepines (Klonopin) for anxiety attacks, and the only thing I have to say is, whoa! I am also on an SSRI, Zoloft, and I've never had any issues with combining the two in the few times I've taken Klonopin. However, in recent years, I've been trying to use heavily steeped chamomile tea to combat the minor anxiety attacks that periodically overtake me.

I have taken small amounts of benzodiazepines (Klonopin) for anxiety attacks, and the only thing I have to say is, whoa! I am also on an SSRI, Zoloft, and I've never had any issues with combining the two in the few times I've taken Klonopin. However, in recent years, I've been trying to use heavily steeped chamomile tea to combat the minor anxiety attacks that periodically overtake me.

You're better off with chamomile than Klonopin!  I need stronger medicine myself.  Benzodiazepines are very sedating when you first take them, but you build tolerance quickly.  I take a maintenance dose.  It doesn't get me "high," but it still counters my symptoms of anxiety and PTSD.  People looking to get high off of benzos find they need escalating doses commensurate with tolerance.  Same goes for most drugs. 

Klonopin is a superior preparation to Xanax.  Xanax gave me that muddy-headed feeling.  I'm not the only one.  Lots of patience who respond poorly to Xanax obtain better relef with Klonopin.  If I was going to use a benzo recreationally, I'd pick Valium!  That's why I wouldn't want a scrip for it!

Update: A. is suing the administration for forcing her to talk, thereby defying her constitutional rights, and for not telling her if E. died or not (in the end, he's fine...I talked to him today) in order to connive her into confession. Essentially, it was entrapment. The latter part may have been used by law enforcement officers, but that they were not. I'm very happy about this all.

I didn't know anybody still believed LSD recessed itself in your fat cells and manifested as "flashbacks" twenty years later!  ("Reefer Madness" anyone?)



I was looking forward to them and have been sorely disappointed. 

I was looking forward to them and have been sorely disappointed. 

;D ;D ;D
Karma 4ya!~

The scholastic anti-drug media used to tell us that stuff.  Through the windshield in the first frame it's a quick-motion vista of a guy speeding down the freeway.  Second frame, same guy, same car, out the windshield it's all a swirling wash of psychedelic colors! FLASHBACKS: don't take acid, kid, this could happen to you!
http://www.televisionheaven.co.uk/dragnet1.jpg

Why wait?  One time in my youth I ended up riding shotgun with a kid who was tripping.  He was going about 10 mph and leaning forward like he was extremely near-sighted.  He wasn't staring out the windshield, he was staring at the windshield!  I would have given him a ride home, but I didn't even have a license yet.  I just said,
"OK, Bob, I can just walk the rest of the way."
"Whaaa?," he replied, drifting into the other lane!
Sometimes when we're young, we show callous disregard for human life.  I did when I got out of the car and just let him wobble away down the road.  If I'd been more assertive I would have insisted he park it.  Nothing bad happened, but the "what ifs" always made me a little guilty.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/06/jinnwink.gif

You're friend made an irresponsible decision, but I don't think it's one that should ruin her life. She's a kid and kids do stupid things. She shoud be punished at school and I think that if the authorities need to look anywhere, they need to look at the doctor father who gave her the pills. And I'm not assuming he just gave them to her for no reason, so his career and livelihood should not be threatened either. Nobody was really hurt, and everyone learned a lesson.

It's time that America stopped being so hysterical about "crime." It's not like she was selling crack.

Update: A. is suing the administration for forcing her to talk, thereby defying her constitutional rights, and for not telling her if E. died or not (in the end, he's fine...I talked to him today) in order to connive her into confession. Essentially, it was entrapment. The latter part may have been used by law enforcement officers, but that they were not. I'm very happy about this all.
Dear god, only in America. ::)

Update: A. is suing the administration for forcing her to talk, thereby defying her constitutional rights, and for not telling her if E. died or not (in the end, he's fine...I talked to him today) in order to connive her into confession. Essentially, it was entrapment. The latter part may have been used by law enforcement officers, but that they were not. I'm very happy about this all.

Strangely enough, this might even end up being the most fair resolution: yes, she's been stupid, but the reaction is disproportionate.  To get off on the above sort of technicality (not only entrapment, but surely she should have had an adult present during that interrogation in order for it to be legal?) could mean that legally she's off the hook while still having had an almighty scare so as not to do it again.  After all, what benefit is there to anybody to leave this girl with a criminal record (assuming, of course, that she's not going to do anything like this again...)?

Dear god, only in America. ::)


Remember.. we are talking about academics here - The vast majority of whom don't actually know there is a real world.

Asking how Xanax (a schedule 4 drug) is different from Heroin or LSD (both schedule 1 drugs), and then in the next sentence basically saying they are all the same shows how little real world knowledge you have on drugs. Possessing a schedule 4 drug without a prescription is a light misdemeanor at best. Millions take it and have prescriptions for it.  Possesing heroin or LSD is a felony in the US, and both have no legitimate or acceptable medical usage.

Thank you for saying that, RA.

Heroin has had legitimate and acceptable usages in the past, e.g. on prescription to registered addicts (and it was first introduced as a way to wean addicts off morphine.. ironic in a way).

I do wonder under what criteria drugs are made illegal: it seems to be that if people are enjoying them too much (so much for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness).  Marijuana was only made illegal after possibly the biggest load of lies ever told about a substance was sold to the US public.  But I think this tangent probably deserves a thread of its own (it had one a while back, but I'm not sure if you were around then)

Remember.. we are talking about academics here - The vast majority of whom don't actually know there is a real world.

Rubbish.


Thank you for saying that, RA.

Heroin has had legitimate and acceptable usages in the past, e.g. on prescription to registered addicts (and it was first introduced as a way to wean addicts off morphine.. ironic in a way).

I do wonder under what criteria drugs are made illegal: it seems to be that if people are enjoying them too much (so much for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness).  Marijuana was only made illegal after possibly the biggest load of lies ever told about a substance was sold to the US public.  But I think this tangent probably deserves a thread of its own (it had one a while back, but I'm not sure if you were around then)

"I used to be a heroin addict now I'm a methadone addict."
--Annie Hall

From time immemorial human beings have sought to ingest substances to expand their consciousnesses or to kill their pain.  "Drugs" aren't going away no matter what kind of "war" we declare on them.  I certianly wouldn't want anybody I care about on heroin, but there are no easy answers to difficult problems.  Sorry, Republicans.

I don't know all the details.  Herman's friend might very well have a case.  I don't like the way the authorities strong arm people.  It was great when Andy Sipowitz did it on NYPD Blue because he always caught the bad guy.  It ain't like that in the, ahem, "real world."

Heroine could certainly have a medical use. It's a very powerful painkiller, which could be used to treat the terminally ill in the last, most painful stages of their lives.

In the oscar-winning film Les Invasions Barbares (The Barbarian Invasions) the principal character is a terminal cancer patient, and his son's doctor friend suggests that his son procure for him some heroine because it's 8 times more effective than morphine. So he does.

By the way, if you haven't seen that film yet I encourage you to. It's one of my all time favourites.

Heroine could certainly have a medical use. It's a very powerful painkiller, which could be used to treat the terminally ill in the last, most painful stages of their lives.

In the oscar-winning film Les Invasions Barbares (The Barbarian Invasions) the principal character is a terminal cancer patient, and his son's doctor friend suggests that his son procure for him some heroine because it's 8 times more effective than morphine. So he does.

By the way, if you haven't seen that film yet I encourage you to. It's one of my all time favourites.

Haven't seen the film, I'll look out for it. 

I think heroin should be available for inpatient use.  For terminal cancer or third degree burns, there's nothing better.  Otherwise, it wouldn't do you much good.

Thank you for saying that, RA.

Heroin has had legitimate and acceptable usages in the past, e.g. on prescription to registered addicts (and it was first introduced as a way to wean addicts off morphine.. ironic in a way).



You're welcome. Yep, heroin (acetylated morphine) was synthesized in the late 1800s as a cure for morphine addcition, but obviously didn't go as planned.



I do wonder under what criteria drugs are made illegal: it seems to be that if people are enjoying them too much (so much for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness).  Marijuana was only made illegal after possibly the biggest load of lies ever told about a substance was sold to the US public.  But I think this tangent probably deserves a thread of its own (it had one a while back, but I'm not sure if you were around then)


I wasn't around then, or I've forgotten that thread. Most of the true psychedelics have no current or mainstream medical use, but OTOH they also have a very low risk for hard-core abuse, dependence, or overdose. However, all of them are schedule 1. Going into all the reasons would take hours of typing and research, but it's not surprising that Republican presidents and administrations (mainly Nixon and Reagan's) are responsible for many of the disasterous policies regarding illegal drugs.

You're welcome. Yep, heroin (acetylated morphine) was synthesized in the late 1800s as a cure for morphine addcition, but obviously didn't go as planned.

I wasn't around then, or I've forgotten that thread. Most of the true psychedelics have no current or mainstream medical use, but OTOH they also have a very low risk for hard-core abuse, dependence, or overdose. However, all of them are schedule 1. Going into all the reasons would take hours of typing and research, but it's not surprising that Republican presidents and administrations (mainly Nixon and Reagan's) are responsible for many of the disasterous policies regarding illegal drugs.

C.I.A.
Cocaine Import Agency

During the Reagan Administration, we saw the best jobs program for underprivileged youth ever: Dealing crack!
Another fringe benefit from Iran-Contra!

Rubbish.
Says who? I have worked with acamdemics for the last 17 years and quite frankly the majority of them are completely barking mad! Absolutely brilliant in their field but no idea about the real world. Infact quite a few of the older homeless men in Oxford are academics whose one supporter/carer ie; wife or mother have died or left and they haven't been able to cope with every day life.   

Says who? I have worked with acamdemics for the last 17 years and quite frankly the majority of them are completely barking mad! Absolutely brilliant in their field but no idea about the real world. Infact quite a few of the older homeless men in Oxford are academics whose one supporter/carer ie; wife or mother have died or left and they haven't been able to cope with every day life.   


This sounds like a stereotype.

Having worked in a university for 20 years I would say that the situation here isn't that bad.  But there are definitely some who are brilliant but have no common sense and some who shouldn't be let out unaccompanied.  Others are not in touch with what is going on outside the university and they spout crap at times.

This sounds like a stereotype.
Maybe so but it's the truth.

Says who? I have worked with acamdemics for the last 17 years and quite frankly the majority of them are completely barking mad! Absolutely brilliant in their field but no idea about the real world. Infact quite a few of the older homeless men in Oxford are academics whose one supporter/carer ie; wife or mother have died or left and they haven't been able to cope with every day life.   

Of course there are people in academics who are out of touch with reality.  There are people in every profession who are out of touch with reality.  The difference is academics is a trade of ideas.  The ideas range from brilliant to loony.  The difference between academics and business is that ideas that don't make money can thrive in academia.  The citizens of the Ayn Rand Candyland will tell you that's why for-profit business is superior, because the strong survive.  Not true.  Not every money-making idea is connected to reality.  Corporations made zillions telling you smoking isn't bad for you and global warming doesn't exist. 

Some academics and their ideas seem barking mad until they're proved spot-on!  People thought Einstein was a kook for years!  Here's another, John Nash:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forbes_Nash

Having worked in a university for 20 years I would say that the situation here isn't that bad.  But there are definitely some who are brilliant but have no common sense and some who shouldn't be let out unaccompanied.  Others are not in touch with what is going on outside the university and they spout crap at times.


Yeah, this is what I'm saying. It's not that academics are stupid, I'd say that's fairly obviously not so.. just that academia is it's own little world. Face it, there aren't many other areas of interest, proffesions etc that offer such easy availability to become totally and utterly lost in what you're doing.


Says who? I have worked with acamdemics for the last 17 years and quite frankly the majority of them are completely barking mad! Absolutely brilliant in their field but no idea about the real world. Infact quite a few of the older homeless men in Oxford are academics whose one supporter/carer ie; wife or mother have died or left and they haven't been able to cope with every day life.   


Right.

Wasn't meant to be an argument, just an off the cuff statement.  ;D Kinda thought it was accepted as fact.

Yeah, this is what I'm saying. It's not that academics are stupid, I'd say that's fairly obviously not so.. just that academia is it's own little world. Face it, there aren't many other areas of interest, proffesions etc that offer such easy availability to become totally and utterly lost in what you're doing.

Right.

Wasn't meant to be an argument, just an off the cuff statement.  ;D Kinda thought it was accepted as fact.

Sorry, it's still rubbish.  Many of the world's greatest scientists, business leaders, politicians, journalists, musicians, artists, medical doctors, fiction writers, engineers, government officials, economists, philosophers, chefs, architects, and (you-name-it) get started in academics, retire to academics, or run concurrent careers in academics. 

As fascism swells, the academy gets attacked.  From the Right we always here about "ivory tower intellectuals," even from "ivory tower intellectuals" on the Right.  The academy values free thought.  The Right values obedience, not free thought.  Take note of how the Right marginalizes Philosophers as frivolous eggheads.  Yet, after every totalitarian coup, the philosophers are among the first to get it between the eyes.  Why is that?  Because ideas really do matter.

Indeed, there are a few quacks and loons at every major learning institution.  You'll find a few in every profession, just as you will find every profession represented at major universities.  The generalization that "those who can't do teach" is unfounded.

The jokes about academics being in La-La Land are merely another form of right-wing conditioning.  Anybody who believes that hype simply isn't using his head. 
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/10/znaika.gif

As fascism swells, the academy gets attacked.  From the Right we always here about "ivory tower intellectuals," even from "ivory tower intellectuals" on the Right.  The academy values free thought.  The Right values obedience, not free thought.  Take note of how the Right marginalizes Philosophers as frivolous eggheads.  Yet, after every totalitarian coup, the philosophers are among the first to get it between the eyes.  Why is that?  Because ideas really do matter.


Everybody's homework tonight is to compare the treatment of academics under right-wing regimes (pretty nasty, lots of dead folks) with what Pol Pot and his left-wing totalitarian ilk did to the "intelligentsia" in Cambodia around 30-40 years ago.

It's not a right/left thing.  It's a free/slave thing.

Everybody's homework tonight is to compare the treatment of academics under right-wing regimes (pretty nasty, lots of dead folks) with what Pol Pot and his left-wing totalitarian ilk did to the "intelligentsia" in Cambodia around 30-40 years ago.

It's not a right/left thing.  It's a free/slave thing.

That is why I said "totalitarian."  You are correct.  When the government starts rounding up citizens and shipping them off for summary execution, ideology doesn't matter anymore.

In America, it is a left/right thing.  The Right in the U.S. is hostile to the academy.  There is a sliver of academia that favors the corporatist, theocratic, and authoritarian mentality of the American Right.  Ken Starr at Pepperdine University comes to mind. 

It is the Right in this country that is authoritarian. 

There is a sliver of the far Left that is authoritarian.  However, the authoritarian Left is mostly relegated to marginalized "revolutionary" parties, such as the Progressive Labor Party* and the Maoist International Movement.

*Former member here.  I split because of the "Comrade Stalin" references, and because they called my tastes in art and music (Max Ernst, John Cage, etc.) bourgeois and degenerate!  Mind you, a band of fifth graders armed with snowballs could have taken out my PLP chapter, but I thought, "If these guys ever got in charge, I'd end up in a re-education camp!"
;D

Update: they are currently trying to build up an expulsion case against E., who was guilty of taking the Xanax. He has been suspended two to three times in his high school career already, and once you have a very high number of suspensions, they send your case for expulsion to the school board, who mull over it and then the superintendent either signs it or doesn't. They are attempting to suspend him frequently enough to be able to bring his case up. To do so, they'd have to dust off the expulsion books in the back of the board of ed; I can't remember the last time that's happened. His current suspension was engineered as such: he fell asleep in study hall, they sent him to get tested for drugs because they knew he'd show up as having smoked pot in the past month, and he's suspended for a week again. I think they plan to keep testing him for drugs with minor excuses until he's expelled. They actually told A. that they "frankly don't want to have to deal with him anymore."

Update: they are currently trying to build up an expulsion case against E., who was guilty of taking the Xanax. He has been suspended two to three times in his high school career already, and once you have a very high number of suspensions, they send your case for expulsion to the school board, who mull over it and then the superintendent either signs it or doesn't. They are attempting to suspend him frequently enough to be able to bring his case up. To do so, they'd have to dust off the expulsion books in the back of the board of ed; I can't remember the last time that's happened. His current suspension was engineered as such: he fell asleep in study hall, they sent him to get tested for drugs because they knew he'd show up as having smoked pot in the past month, and he's suspended for a week again. I think they plan to keep testing him for drugs with minor excuses until he's expelled. They actually told A. that they "frankly don't want to have to deal with him anymore."



Boy, sounds like they're causing E so much stress, he could get prescription for.....Xanax.

I dunno, sometimes I think kids smoke pot and take drugs 'coz school really does suck! 
Of course, it makes life worse in the long run, but I remember H.S. as being pretty damn crummy.