WTF? Isn't it like the season for "Peace on Earth"? The president of this Homeowner's Association has some issues.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061127/ap_on_re_us/anti_peace_sign

that's a bunch of BS....I would hate to live in a place that told me what I could or could not do with my property. My aunt and uncle live on this plantation development in S. Carolina...and they are the same way....everything has to be up to their standards.....that really does suck.

They should secede from the HOA.

HOA are allowed to be as strict and utterly absurd as they want, provided they don't break the law.  The HOA in the subdivision I live in requires to you submit paint samples before you paint your house, to ensure you paint it the correct color. 

"He said some residents have also believed it was a symbol of Satan."; some of those residents are what you and I might call retarded. How anyone could mistake a peace symbol for a pentagram is beyond me...

"Jensen, a past association president, calculates the fines will cost her about $1,000, and doubts they will be able to make her pay. But she said she's not going to take it down until after Christmas." - Good for Jensen, karma to her, wherever she is.

"The subdivision's rules say no signs, billboards or advertising are permitted without the consent of the architectural control committee." - If this is their verbatim rules, I'd say Kearns and the 3 or 4 homeowners who are crying about this need a remedial lesson in reading. A peace wreath obviously isn't a billboard or advertising, and the "sign" rule seems too broadly applied here. It's not like she has a dozen 30' tall wreaths displayed or anything.

"Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, but members refused after concluding that it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything. Kearns fired all five committee members."

Sounds like there is a lot more going on here than a Peace/Christmas Wreath being displayed...

FTR, there are many places here where homeowner's rules are strict, not the least of which is in Colonial Williamsburg. Anything which is historically inaccurate, such as paved driveways, satellite dishes, even water faucets or AC units that are visible from the main road, are prohibited. Those I understand because they could threaten tourism if houses appear too modern.

"Somebody could put up signs that say drop bombs on Iraq. If you let one go up you have to let them all go up," he said in a telephone interview Sunday.

Read you own rules, Bob: "The subdivision's rules say no signs, billboards or advertising are permitted without the consent of the architectural control committee."

Architectural control committees? Sounds like a fun place to live...

HOA Nazis. ::)

I can see our HOA president trying to pull some BS like this.  Like Beth, I also live in a community where we have to submit ANY changes we make to the exterior of our homes.  They originally wanted to impose fines on anyone who didn't have their Christmas decorations down by Dec 27 :o  Luckily, there were enough people with 1/2 a brain that said that's just ridiculous and they changed it to Jan 7th or something.  IMO, this is not a "sign", it's a decoration and if this guy thinks he can dictate how people decorate their houses for the holiday, he's going to have a RUDE awakening.  What if someone moves in who's Jewish and wants a Star of David or Menorrah on the outside of their house, is he going to object to that as well?  Oh, and how on earth did he "fire" the other members?  In most cases, these are volunteer positions and someone cannot be "fired".  I really wonder how many people actually complained and if I were the lady, I'd ask for names so I could verify it.  I wouldn't take it down, though.....like Jess said, it's the season for "Peace on Earth, Goodwill towards men"...

It matters not anymore. The HOA buckled.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/28/peace.wreath.ap/index.html

Apparently a lot of people had contacted the lady offering to pay the fines so she could leave it up.

I can understand a HOA being down on, say, painting your house a putrid color or having junk in your yard that looks tacky. But a peace wreath? Come on. I think the HOA president had something against the lady anyways because when the architectural committee disagreed with him, he fired them all. And he probably bullied the other committee members into agreeing with him. I don't think he's long for that job. He's gonna go schizoid like the HOA president on "Over the Hedge". ;D

I read about this a few days ago but I didn't hear that the HOA backed down. I guess they figured they would have more trouble if they tried to enforce this.




Cat

Yeah, I've been seing the nosey nazi neighborhood nags on the news!

I would have thought the first people protesting would be the Libertarians.  Oh, wait, it didn't have anything to do with guns or illegal immigrants.

Glad to hear the HOA backed off.

Rice had a good suggestion: Secede from the HOA!  Let 'em duke it out in court.  I'd say to the HOA: You wanna tell me what to do with my property, then you pay my property taxes!

There are some right-wing pastors who will tell you the peace sign is an upside down cross with arms broken to mock Christianity!

'Tis the season to kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out!
:D

What if someone moves in who's Jewish and wants a Star of David or Menorrah on the outside of their house, is he going to object to that as well? 



To paraphrase what you are saying.."What about the Jews, can they put up something and not us".  I hate that garbage. 

Homeowners associations lead to intolerance.

i had an HOA tow my car once because my tags werent up to date. it cost me more than 200 dollars to get it back.

i had an HOA tow my car once because my tags werent up to date. it cost me more than 200 dollars to get it back.

I don't get it.  What is that their business?  I'm guessing it's to stop people from keeping junked cars on their property or something.
::)

I don't get it.  What is that their business?  I'm guessing it's to stop people from keeping junked cars on their property or something.
::)


The people who run these things are seriously Martha Stewart anal to the 10th.  I friend of mine was allowed to put out a sandbox for her 2 year old unless approved by the committee.

I don't get it.  What is that their business?  I'm guessing it's to stop people from keeping junked cars on their property or something.
::)
youre preaching to the choir, brutha!

i was enraged. enraged!

youre preaching to the choir, brutha!

i was enraged. enraged!

I woulda had steam shooting out my ears like in the cartoons!  But, I mean, what explanation did they give for taking it upon themselves to tow the car because the tags were expired?

I just read about how these things work, apparently they put these "restrictive covenants" in the deeds for the houses and they could basically put anything in there. It's basically a contract that you agree to when you purchase the property and you're bound to it and so are all future owners, though the enforceability varies in each state I guess. In some states they could foreclose your house without any court proceedings.

The people who run these things are seriously Martha Stewart anal to the 10th.  I friend of mine was allowed to put out a sandbox for her 2 year old unless approved by the committee.
I believe it.  In ours, if it's one of those plastic ones, it's okay because it's not considered "permanent".  Ours has gone so far as to tell people what color swings they can put on their swingset and have even denied one because it didn't look "appropriate" (i.e. it was too small & inexpensive).  They threatened to fine us because we put in a basketball hoop.  We appealed it and never heard the outcome so I sent them a letter saying "Since we haven't heard your decision on our appeal in the alloted 10 days, per the covenants, we are considering this matter closed and any further communication will be considered harrassment and subject to legal action"  We haven't had any trouble with them since then ;)

I just read about how these things work, apparently they put these "restrictive covenants" in the deeds for the houses and they could basically put anything in there. It's basically a contract that you agree to when you purchase the property and you're bound to it and so are all future owners, though the enforceability varies in each state I guess. In some states they could foreclose your house without any court proceedings.

The "restrictive covenants" straight up through 1940s explicitly and legally bound the property owner to only sell, rent, or lease the premises to "white persons." 

Some Bush-haters (wasn't me) tried to tar Dubya for buying a house in a Dallas suburb that was "white only."  Indeed, the restrictive covenant was still on the books, but it was null and void for sixty years.  Nice try, next time do a little MORE research!

Sort of like the way slavery was still legal in Mississippi until the 1990s.  The law was moot ever since the 13th Amendment passed. The federal constitution overrode the state constitution.  Mississippi kept slavery on the books in sentimental remembrance of their "peculiar institution."  So, in 1980, Ronnie Reagan kicked off his Presidential campaign in MS on a platform of states' rights!

What was that song from the '90s, "Things that make you go hmmm...."

The "restrictive covenants" straight up through 1940s explicitly and legally bound the property owner to only sell, rent, or lease the premises to "white persons." 
Some Bush-haters (wasn't me) tried to tar Dubya for buying a house in a Dallas suburb that was "white only."  Indeed, the restrictive covenant was still on the books, but it was null and void for sixty years.  Nice try, next time do a little MORE research!



Yes. You cannot make an illegal contract.  If something is written into law you cannot make a contract that stipulates illegal terms.  If you sign a contract and later find that the terms are not legal then you can breach the contract without fear of reprisal(when legal reprisal anyway)  ::)

Home Owners Associations can be as generous or as strict as they want.  It all depends on their Charter, and who the members of the Board are.  In fact, there have been cases where they would either outlaw the display of Hiliday decorations, or in some cases even mandate their use.

And earlier this year, a relative of Chief Justice Clarance Thomas (I think it was his uncle) was ordered by his HOA to remove a US Flag he hung on his front porch.

This is just one of the things you have to put up with if you live in a subdivision with a Home Owners Association.  Myself, I would never live in such a place.  I once owned a mobile home in a park in LA, and they had all sorts of rediculous requirements.  We even had to remove a sandbox from our back yard, because they were not allowed.  I only lived there a year, and was glad to get outta that place.

And earlier this year, a relative of Chief Justice Clarance Thomas (I think it was his uncle) was ordered by his HOA to remove a US Flag he hung on his front porch.



Hehehe.  He only wishes he were Chief Justice ;)

I agree with you though, HOAs suck.  If I bought a house with my hard earned money to raise my family and relax etc., no yuppie is going to tell me whether I can put down Astroturf in my front yard or not :P  My wife might not be too keen on that though :D

And earlier this year, a relative of Chief Justice Clarance Thomas (I think it was his uncle) was ordered by his HOA to remove a US Flag he hung on his front porch.


If a man wants to fly the flag of his country on his own property that's his right, and no two-bit HOA ought to be able to say boo about it.  True, I make fun of people who get all sanctimonious about Old Glory, but this isn't sanctimony, this is basic freedom.  The best way to prove a country isn't free is to allow a bunch of uptight pr*cks to forbid people from displaying a banner symbolizing said free country. 

On the other hand, if a HOA mandated every property owner fly the flag, I'd be against that too.  That's not freedom either.

Chief Justice Clarence Thomas?  We're all entitled to a bit of wishful thinking!

The thing with HOAs is that they are usually started with the best intentions to keep the area looking "nice".  I mean, who would want to live next to someone with a bunch of dead cars in the yard or something of the sort?  The problem is when they get out of control and try to dictate every little detail of the homes in the subdivision.  Every subdivision in my town has one and some are more strict than others and most new subdivisions have one in other areas as well.  As I've said before, when we first moved in, they weren't too bad.  If you wanted to change something about your house/yard, you just went to one of the board members and showed them what you wanted to do and they usually approved it.  Now, we have a Hitler-esque president who is a TOTAL nightmare, but noone else wants to be president because noone wants to deal with her.  (our former president quit because he was sick and tired of hearing her complain about everything) :-\\

^ Well, vote her off the island!  :D

The thing with HOAs is that they are usually started with the best intentions to keep the area looking "nice".  I mean, who would want to live next to someone with a bunch of dead cars in the yard or something of the sort? 



That reasoning is a bit skewed, dead cars in the front yard and other eyesores are the exception and can be dealt with by zoning laws.  HOAs are set up for by anal retentives to give a sense of being exclusive, maybe more refined, than the rabble outside the gates.

That reasoning is a bit skewed, dead cars in the front yard and other eyesores are the exception and can be dealt with by zoning laws.  HOAs are set up for by anal retentives to give a sense of being exclusive, maybe more refined, than the rabble outside the gates.
Home owners associations are also found in places such as trailer parks and lower income housing (at least around here, they are), not just upper class subdivisions.  They are supposed to maintain a certain "unity" within a subdivision, although, like you said, many are WAY too retentive about said "unity".  Sorry, there are certain things that I don't care to look at (and most others probably wouldn't either) that zoning laws just don't cover. 

Junked cars and old refrigerators are safety/environmental hazards.  That's the kind of thing I think it's fine for a HOA to prohibit.  When they start telling you what color you can paint your house or whether or not you can set up a flock of pink flamingos that I get disgusted!
::)

Hehehe.  He only wishes he were Chief Justice ;)


That is my bad, I meant to say "Supreme Court Justice".  I was in a rush to put in that comment, only 10 minutes before we closed for the day.

Junked cars and old refrigerators are safety/environmental hazards.  That's the kind of thing I think it's fine for a HOA to prohibit.  When they start telling you what color you can paint your house or whether or not you can set up a flock of pink flamingos that I get disgusted!
::)


I can agree with that, to a degree.  I would have no problem with any homeowner paining their house.

However, I guess I would have a problem if they wanted it something like black, or bright pink with baby-puke green stripes.  However, some go to extreme.  My uncle bought a house in Irvine in the 1980's, and the HOA there had a template of 4 different paint schemes you were allowed to use.  And before you painted your house, you had to get pre-approval and use an approved contractor.

He even ran into problems with them when he finally got his car back from my other uncle.  It was a 1960's era Triumph convertible, which he then proceeded to carefully restore.  He was doing it in his garage, but some busy-body reported him for doing "auto repair" on his property (outlawed by the HOA).  After fighting it for 6 months, he finally went ahead and rented a garage out in town, and did the restoration there.

I do not have a problem with an HOA making restrictions that benefit the community.  But when the HOA becomes excessive in it's demands, that is when I have problems.  I can understand banning oversized flags, beause of the noise they can make.  I can even understand banning "objectionable" flags (I would not want to live next to somebody who flew a KKK flag).  But banning all flags is excessive.


Now, we have a Hitler-esque president who is a TOTAL nightmare, but noone else wants to be president because noone wants to deal with her.  (our former president quit because he was sick and tired of hearing her complain about everything) :-\\


Sadly, that is often what happens.  We had a "Board of Advisors" in an apartment that I lived in in LA.  The President of the Board was an old busy-body biddy, who had nothing better to do with her life then to make stupid regulations (IE: Laundry Room was only open from 9am-5pm Mon-Fri, Pool was only open from noon-7pm, no unattended minors and only 1 guest, things like that).  Finally after 4 months myself and a bunch of others had a "coup", and voted her off the board.  We then put in a new charter, requiring a 2/3 majority, and a quarum of 1/2+1 before any new measures could be enacted (this was a 48 unit apartment complex, the old quarum requirements were only 8 units).

After that, she was unable to ever regain controll of the board.  Either she would hold a "secret meeting" of her supporters and it would be ruled invalid because of the lack of a quarum, or she would get some backers, but not enough to get a 2/3 majority.  This was in 1998, and I moved out of there in 1999.  She was finally able to regain control of the board in 2002.

I can agree with that, to a degree.  I would have no problem with any homeowner paining their house.

However, I guess I would have a problem if they wanted it something like black, or bright pink with baby-puke green stripes.  However, some go to extreme.  My uncle bought a house in Irvine in the 1980's, and the HOA there had a template of 4 different paint schemes you were allowed to use.  And before you painted your house, you had to get pre-approval and use an approved contractor.

He even ran into problems with them when he finally got his car back from my other uncle.  It was a 1960's era Triumph convertible, which he then proceeded to carefully restore.  He was doing it in his garage, but some busy-body reported him for doing "auto repair" on his property (outlawed by the HOA).  After fighting it for 6 months, he finally went ahead and rented a garage out in town, and did the restoration there.

I do not have a problem with an HOA making restrictions that benefit the community.  But when the HOA becomes excessive in it's demands, that is when I have problems.  I can understand banning oversized flags, beause of the noise they can make.  I can even understand banning "objectionable" flags (I would not want to live next to somebody who flew a KKK flag).  But banning all flags is excessive.

Sadly, that is often what happens.  We had a "Board of Advisors" in an apartment that I lived in in LA.  The President of the Board was an old busy-body biddy, who had nothing better to do with her life then to make stupid regulations (IE: Laundry Room was only open from 9am-5pm Mon-Fri, Pool was only open from noon-7pm, no unattended minors and only 1 guest, things like that).  Finally after 4 months myself and a bunch of others had a "coup", and voted her off the board.  We then put in a new charter, requiring a 2/3 majority, and a quarum of 1/2+1 before any new measures could be enacted (this was a 48 unit apartment complex, the old quarum requirements were only 8 units).

After that, she was unable to ever regain controll of the board.  Either she would hold a "secret meeting" of her supporters and it would be ruled invalid because of the lack of a quarum, or she would get some backers, but not enough to get a 2/3 majority.  This was in 1998, and I moved out of there in 1999.  She was finally able to regain control of the board in 2002.
That would pretty accurately describe our current president.  However, we are even unable to get a quorum at the meetings because we have over 300 homes and they hold the meetings in places where 150+ people cannot physically fit.  The covenants were also written such that you had to have 1/2+1 present at the opening of the meeting and she would only allow people who were physically in the building to vote.  I think they've now been changed to allow proxy votes to count, but it's gotten to the point where no one wants to deal with her AT ALL and they know that she'll drive them crazy.  Somehow, she managed to "slip" in a covenant that gives the president "veto power" over the architechtural committee and any other subcommittee.  In our most recent newsletter, there was a snippet about "playsets" that basically said if you currently have a canopy, slide or swings in a color other than green or brown and you wish to replace any of them, they have to be replaced with green or brown ones.  We have a Rainbow playset with the signature red, yellow and blue canopy; yellow slide; and red, yellow and blue swings.  Our canopy needs to be replaced and guess which one I'm replacing it with? ;)