I care. I was planning on asking you about it (I remember you saying that you have an election coming up in another thread).


I do have a question, do you vote for a party or do you vote for a person?




Cat

Tweede Kamer for Second Chamber!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_thumleft.gif

I figured out why America couldn't have a parliamentary system.  We don't have the attention span!
(Unless it's sports or horseracing).
:-\\

Tweede Kamer for Second Chamber!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_thumleft.gif

I figured out why America couldn't have a parliamentary system.  We don't have the attention span!
(Unless it's sports or horseracing).
:-\\


Actually Max, if the U.S. had more than one "Confessional Party"  (Green are the only noticable to date) it would take away power from both Republicans and Dems.  Some of us would have a true say in the Goverment.  I like the ideal of a multi-party system, as complicated as it may be. :)

I care. I was planning on asking you about it (I remember you saying that you have an election coming up in another thread).


I do have a question, do you vote for a party or do you vote for a person?

Cat


A bit of both. In general, we vote for a party, but sometimes a person gets elected by preferential votes. (If a party has won 5 seats, this usually means nrs 1 to 5 on their list get the seats, unless someone else that's ranked lower has gotten a majority of votes)

Tweede Kamer for Second Chamber!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_thumleft.gif


You know what they say: it's a dirty job.... ;)

Actually Max, if the U.S. had more than one "Confessional Party"  (Green are the only noticable to date) it would take away power from both Republicans and Dems.  Some of us would have a true say in the Goverment.  I like the ideal of a multi-party system, as complicated as it may be. :)


A multi-party system definitely has its advantages, but I don't think it will ever happen in U.S.

I forgot to mention that in this country, every party gets a fair share of tv time on public networks for their campaigning; they don't have to buy it. I don't see how that's going to happen in U.S.

Which party was Pim Fortune affiliated with?

Which party was Pim Fortune affiliated with?


His own (List Pim Fortuyn), a party that's been out of control ever since he was shot. There are at least three people who claim to be the political/ideological "legal heirs" of mr Fortuyn. The party did well in 2002 elections, but they were already halved a year later. Prognosis for today's elections look even worse: they're about to lose all remaining seats.

His own (List Pim Fortuyn), a party that's been out of control ever since he was shot. There are at least three people who claim to be the political/ideological "legal heirs" of mr Fortuyn. The party did well in 2002 elections, but they were already halved a year later. Prognosis for today's elections look even worse: they're about to lose all remaining seats.


Ok, I was wondering about that, how much power his party had after his death. You answerd my question already, thanks Henk.

I hope you will keep us informed of the outcome, Henk.




Cat

I hope you will keep us informed of the outcome, Henk.


Cat


I'm trying to keep up with things. First results are in, leading to this prognosis:

CDA - 40 seats
PvdA - 33 seats
SP - 25 seats
VVD - 22 seats
PvdV - 8 seats
GroenLinks - 7 seats
ChristenUnie - 7 seats
D66 - 3 seats
SGP - 2 seats
PvdD - 2 seats
LPF - 1 seat


Note: votes in Amsterdam (and a few other less important towns) were casted in the old fashioned way (pencil and paper), as the voting machines were disapproved of. This will cause a great delay in the final outcome of the elections.

Thanks, Henk (and karma to you).


If your elections are anything like ours, sometimes it will take days or even weeks to know the final tally.



Cat

Thanks, Henk (and karma to you).


If your elections are anything like ours, sometimes it will take days or even weeks to know the final tally.



Cat


I don't expect it to take that long (it doesn't look like a neck-and-neck race, so no real need for a recount), but with Amsterdam representing 6 to 7 seats in Tweede Kamer there still could be a swerve to the left in the final hours.

Update - with over 96% of votes counted:

CDA - 41 seats
PvdA - 32 seats
SP - 26 seats
VVD - 22 seats
PvdV - 9 seats
GroenLinks - 7 seats
ChristenUnie - 6 seats
D66 - 3 seats
SGP - 2 seats
PvdD - 2 seats
LPF - no seats

BTW, who did you vote for?



Cat

BTW, who did you vote for?



Cat


ChristenUnie. Though I don't agree with them on all points, it's the only party I find trustworthy enough to get my vote. In fact, I've recently decided to join them and become a member.

These are the final results:

CDA - 41 seats
PvdA - 32 seats
SP - 26 seats
VVD - 22 seats
PvdV - 9 seats
GroenLinks - 7 seats
ChristenUnie - 6 seats
D66 - 3 seats
SGP - 2 seats
PvdD - 2 seats
LPF - no seats



So what happens next?
The game commences. First, everyone of any importance (chairwoman of the Senate, chairman of the Lower House, frontmen and -women of all parties in Lower House) will get his/her say. Therefore they will all visit the queen. After hearing what everyone has to say, the queen will then appoint a so-called informateur who will study the coalitions possible and have further talks with parties involved. This will take several weeks, possibly months. If a coalition of some sort proves to be possible, formation talks will follow.

Complicated...
No argument here. It's the price we have to pay for our multi-party system.

Suppose it all works out... what are the possibilities?
First, let's rule out a few parties: some because they're too small (PvdD, SGP, D66), others because they don't want to be in government this time (VVD, who lost ten seats compared to 2003 elections), and one party because they've basically ruled themselves out (no other party wants to be in a coalition with the PvdV, because of their anti-islamic points of view).
This means there are only five parties left to form a coalition.
Of course you'd want a coalition of parties that's as strong as possible, which means involving as less parties as possible (definitely no more than four). A two-party coalition would be ideal, but that's not possible this time. The two largest parties in Lower House (CDA and PvdA) only have a combined total of 73 seats, 3 short for majority. They could ask the ChristenUnie to join them, which makes a total of 79 seats. This is one option, although CDA and PvdA have been diametrically opposed to eachother prior to elections.
Another option is to have the largest party in Lower House (CDA) and the party who gained most seats in this elections (SP, +17) start coalition talks. They too would need a third party to join them. Again, ChrstenUnie is an option, but GroenLinks is the more likely candidate.
This is another possible coalition, although it's not as likely as the first one (too much ideological differences).

All other options are either impossible or too unlikely IMHO.

We'll know more in a few weeks time.

We'll know more in a few weeks time.


Well, it's taken a bit more than a few weeks, but talks have come to a final stage.

As I predicted, there's gonna be a CDA - PvdA - ChristenUnie coalition. Currently the three parties involved are dotting their i's to get to a coalition agreement (a matter of hours more than days), and after that they'll be working on forming an actual government (you know, who's gonna do what). This may take up another week or two.

Well, it's taken a bit more than a few weeks, but talks have come to a final stage.

As I predicted, there's gonna be a CDA - PvdA - ChristenUnie coalition. Currently the three parties involved are dotting their i's to get to a coalition agreement (a matter of hours more than days), and after that they'll be working on forming an actual government (you know, who's gonna do what). This may take up another week or two.


So what happened whilst all these talks were going on?  Was there actually anyone 'in charge'?

So what happened whilst all these talks were going on?  Was there actually anyone 'in charge'?


Yep. The old government (a CDA - VVD - D66 coalition) were taking care of business, but since they were outgoing they weren't allowed to decide on any major issues.

i thought the king or queen made the law! ;D :D ;)

i thought the king or queen made the law! ;D :D ;)


Well...laws are still passed by Royal Decree, but the king or queen doesn't actually make the law. That wouldn't be very democratic, would it? ;)

On a sidenote: when the Belgian government wanted to legalize abortion, the Belgian king (a Roman Catholic) had to abdicate for a couple of hours, as he obviously could never pass such a law.

Well...laws are still passed by Royal Decree, but the king or queen doesn't actually make the law. That wouldn't be very democratic, would it? ;)

On a sidenote: when the Belgian government wanted to legalize abortion, the Belgian king (a Roman Catholic) had to abdicate for a couple of hours, as he obviously could never pass such a law.
LOl i was just kidfdng.But I reallyknow little about Dutch politics.

LOl i was just kidfdng.But I reallyknow little about Dutch politics.


I know you were just kidding. :) Even so, I felt like your remark deserved a serious reply.

And there's really not much to know about Dutch politics. It's much the same as the U.S., except that we have way more political parties to choose from. And it's not like we're in the center of international political interest, so there's no way you could know.
We're just a small country, with little or no natural resources and a stable government - rather boring. ;)

I know you were just kidding. :) Even so, I felt like your remark deserved a serious reply.

And there's really not much to know about Dutch politics. It's much the same as the U.S., except that we have way more political parties to choose from. And it's not like we're in the center of international political interest, so there's no way you could know.
We're just a small country, with little or no natural resources and a stable government - rather boring. ;)


  More political parties in the Netherlands ..?  I don't know about that...

  In the U.S., if you fart, there's a political party for it.  And, to borrow from Martha, "that's a good thing..."

  But you're right, it's hard to tell how many are aware of this.  Donkey vs. Elephant is just easier, I guess...

  Now, what's this hoo-ha about "The Brotherly Love, Freedom and Diversity Party (PNVD)".  Word is they were attempting to lower the age of consent from sixteen to twelve..?  I've seen crazier and more absurd wastes of time in U.S. court cases, heh groove ;) on...

   More political parties in the Netherlands ..?  I don't know about that...

   In the U.S., if you fart, there's a political party for it.  And, to borrow from Martha, "that's a good thing..."

   But you're right, it's hard to tell how many are aware of this.  Donkey vs. Elephant is just easier, I guess...


I'm sure you're right (who am I to argue), but if push comes to shove, it's all just about Democrats v Republicans...Other parties don't stand a chance in your elections.
We have a more diverse offering (not necessarily a better thing), which makes it virtually impossible for one party to gain absolute power and take control over Senate or Lower House.


   Now, what's this hoo-ha about "The Brotherly Love, Freedom and Diversity Party (PNVD)".  Word is they were attempting to lower the age of consent from sixteen to twelve..?   I've seen crazier and more absurd wastes of time in U.S. court cases, heh groove ;) on...


Hoo-ha indeed...The party couldn't partake in the elections because they couldn't get the number of autographs required to register. Seems like a lot of people still have some good sense left in this country...

I'm sure you're right (who am I to argue), but if push comes to shove, it's all just about Democrats v Republicans...Other parties don't stand a chance in your elections.
We have a more diverse offering (not necessarily a better thing), which makes it virtually impossible for one party to gain absolute power and take control over Senate or Lower House.




Unfortunately, over here when a party gains absolute power, they get corrupted absolutely. Look what happened in the last 5 years when the Repubs rules all branches of the government.


Cat

I'm sure you're right (who am I to argue), but if push comes to shove, it's all just about Democrats v Republicans...Other parties don't stand a chance in your elections.
We have a more diverse offering (not necessarily a better thing), which makes it virtually impossible for one party to gain absolute power and take control over Senate or Lower House.



  Too many choices on the ballot does make "eenie-meenie-miney-moe" a tad more difficult...