It seems that Bagdad By The Bay has done it yet again.  In a 4-2 vote, the School Board voted to ban all Junior ROTC programs from the school district.

This was done, despite the protest of hundreds of students that are enrolled in the program.  And over the objections of the 2 student presence on the school board (the students can participate in meetings, but have no vote).  Of course, this is the same city that voted a few years ago to ban the Boy Scouts.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/11/14/state/n232322S23.DTL&type=politics

It seems that Bagdad By The Bay has done it yet again.  In a 4-2 vote, the School Board voted to ban all Junior ROTC programs from the school district.

This was done, despite the protest of hundreds of students that are enrolled in the program.  And over the objections of the 2 student presence on the school board (the students can participate in meetings, but have no vote).  Of course, this is the same city that voted a few years ago to ban the Boy Scouts.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/11/14/state/n232322S23.DTL&type=politics

I think "don't ask, don't tell" is stupid policy.  SF banning ROTC is stupid too.  If a student in SF wants to utilize the ROTC program, he or she ought to have the opportunity the same as anywhere else.  If the SF schoolboard wants the military to change its policy on gays there are other ways to go about it that do not deprive students of opportunities.  "Don't ask, don't tell" is unfair, but it does not equal something like racial segregation. 

Of course, I would advise any young person to defer military service until our government starts to use its f**king brains and gets us out of this terrible occupation of Iraq, which is one of the greatest foreign policy blunders in the history of this country.

And calling San Francisco "Baghdad by the Bay" is just plain silly.  It sounds like Ann Coulter.
::)

I was saddened by this decision, as I am from this area and I hope San Francisco's decision doesn't influence other counties to follow suit.

Say's it all really dosen't it 'San Francisco School Board'. Is there anything those people won't do to promote their Liberal policy of minority rule?

And calling San Francisco "Baghdad by the Bay" is just plain silly.  It sounds like Ann Coulter.
::)


Obviously you have never lived in San Francisco.  I have.

"Baghdad By The Bay" is actually a very common nickname for San Francisco.  It dates to the 1930's, and was made by Herb Caen, a famous columnist for the San Francisco Chronicle.  He made the comparison, comparing the culture and sophistication of the two cities.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1997/02/03/MN13INS.DTL

The city has been proud of that nickname for over 7 decades, and you hear it used all the time.

Oh, and never ever EVER call it "Frisco".  You will be told very bluntly that Frisco is a town in Colorado, and is nowhere near San Francisco.

I think "don't ask, don't tell" is stupid policy.  SF banning ROTC is stupid too.  If a student in SF wants to utilize the ROTC program, he or she ought to have the opportunity the same as anywhere else.  If the SF schoolboard wants the military to change its policy on gays there are other ways to go about it that do not deprive students of opportunities.  "Don't ask, don't tell" is unfair, but it does not equal something like racial segregation. 

Of course, I would advise any young person to defer military service until our government starts to use its f**king brains and gets us out of this terrible occupation of Iraq, which is one of the greatest foreign policy blunders in the history of this country.



Here, here! This sums up my feelings.

Of course, I would advise any young person to defer military service until our government starts to use its f**king brains and gets us out of this terrible occupation of Iraq, which is one of the greatest foreign policy blunders in the history of this country.


Yea, let's wait and let ourselves get bogged down in some more Democratic supported wars.

Viet Nam, Somalia, and former Yugoslavia anybody?

Yea, let's wait and let ourselves get bogged down in some more Democratic supported wars.

Viet Nam, Somalia, and former Yugoslavia anybody?


I find it hilarious how you resort to this type of partisan B.S., when you know damn well Maxwell doesn't exactly have a high opinion of the Democratic Party, just like me. Simply the lesser of two evils..

I find it hilarious how you resort to this type of partisan B.S., when you know damn well Maxwell doesn't exactly have a high opinion of the Democratic Party, just like me. Simply the lesser of two evils..


Actually, you notice that I did not say that I was opposed to the wars in Yugoslavia and Somalia.  And as I have stated here before, I supported both of them.  In fact, if anything I feel that we did not go far enough in those conflicts.

And whether I (or anybody else) believes we should have gone into Iraq or not is meaningless now.  We are there, and I only deal in reality, not "maybe" and "what may have been".  To simply pull out now would be a crime against the people of that country.  We would basically be repeating what we did in Afganistan in the 1989 after the Soviet Union pulled out.  Afganistan was left with no government, and nobody came in to help them regain controll of their own country.  And they have suffered over 15 years of bloodshead since then, and the destruction of ancient cultural treasures.

Iraq deserves to be left with a strong stable government before we leave.  However, even I am not of infinate patience.  Unless the Government gets off their butt and starts to straighten out the mess themselves, our being there is meaningless.  I would love nothing more then for all the factions to come to an agreement and stop fighting, so everybody can come home.  But I do not see that happening.

And ROTC is hardly a recruiting tool.  I was involved with it for 3 years when I was in High School.  Out of all the Cadets I was in class with, maybe 10% (at the most) joined the military afterwards.  And all of them were kids who probably would have joined the military with or without ROTC.  The majority either joined to see what the military would be like (and decided it was not for them), to get out of PE (in most schools, you can take ROTC instead of PE), or so they would wear a uniform and participate in field trips and events.

Most of the classes deal with things like First Aid, Map Reading, physical fitness, civics, and history.  They also often participate in local issues like Disaster Relief (our local High School here in Dothan did collections last year for Hurrican Katrina relief) and other local aid projects.  During the last months of Hurricane Season, they normally provide volunteers to the local Hurricane Shelter (where they do things like take care of the kids, and prepare and serve food).  Junior ROTC is about as much a recruitment as the Boy Scouts are.

Obviously you have never lived in San Francisco.  I have.

No, I've never been to SF, but I do know plenty of people who do and have lived there.  And I know not to call it "Frisco"!  Now, I never heard anybody who lives there or who has visited there call it "Baghdad by the Bay," but I googled it.  This is interesting.  There is even a little goings-on-about-town site called "Baghdad by the Bay."
http://www.bagdadbythebay.com/

I knew Herb Caen as the journalist who popularized the term "hippie" in the 1967 Summer of Love, but somehow I overlooked his SF essay collection called "Baghdad by the Bay."  Learn something new every day!

In the 1940s, Baghdad was indeed a sophisticated world class city.  Heck, I've heard many an eyewitness testify that even under Saddam, Baghdad was still a multicultural metropolis.  As a secular thug, Saddam tolerated a lot of diversity in Baghdad.  Yes, he was a savage dictator and if you got on his bad side, you'd get tortured and killed.  However, Saddam wasn't like the Bush family's Saudi partners.  He wasn't mandating all the churches, synagogues, movie theaters, and nightclubs get be shutdown.  Michael Moore alluded to this early in "Fahrenheit 9/11," and the partisan Republican media raked him over the coals.


I find it hilarious how you resort to this type of partisan B.S., when you know damn well Maxwell doesn't exactly have a high opinion of the Democratic Party, just like me. Simply the lesser of two evils..

Yeah, you can't win wars under Democrats.  Look at that FDR, what a f**k up!  I agree about Johnson, but when Dick Nixon took over in 1969, he sure won us a quick and decisive victory in Vietnam!

The thing about Iraq is even if the Dems bungle the job, they can't possibly do as catastrophic a job as the Bush Administration.  The neo-cons concocted this act of vile aggression amidst ivory tower delusions.  What we have now is not a war.  It's a dangerous occupation for our soldiers, and  international piracy for the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld business cronies!
::)

of course, we didn't get "bogged down" in yugoslavia and somalia. nothing like vietnam and iraq. iraq is already (already!) known pretty much as vietnam II, and it's all republican, from beginning to end. merry christmas!

It seems that Bagdad By The Bay has done it yet again.  In a 4-2 vote, the School Board voted to ban all Junior ROTC programs from the school district.

This was done, despite the protest of hundreds of students that are enrolled in the program.  And over the objections of the 2 student presence on the school board (the students can participate in meetings, but have no vote).  Of course, this is the same city that voted a few years ago to ban the Boy Scouts.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/11/14/state/n232322S23.DTL&type=politics


    I was very discouraged to read this.  If they ONLY realized what a mistake they are making.  So many of my former students join the JROTC when they get to High School and absolutely LOVE IT!!  I have witnessed first hand "wallflowers" turning into self-confident, bursting with pride bouquets.  Students who would never utter a word for fear of others mocking them now hold their heads high and proud and encourage others to join the JROTC.  I have never had a former student, who joined the JROTC, tell me they did not like it.  Most of them come back to visit me and bring brochures for me to hand out to the incoming freshman. 
  Of course, I have only been teaching 18 years, the SF school board must know more than I do, after all weren't they were the first to say that Ebonics was acceptable English?

// Of course, I have only been teaching 18 years, the SF school board must know more than I do, after all weren't they were the first to say that Ebonics was acceptable English?


I think it was Oakland that accepted it first.

Of course, I have only been teaching 18 years, the SF school board must know more than I do, after all weren't they were the first to say that Ebonics was acceptable English?



I think it was Oakland that accepted it first.


Yes, it was Oakland.  And that is right across the Bay, a short drive across the Oakland Bridge.  Most of the Bay Area pretty much follows SF's lead when it comes to things like that.  Of course, San Francisco would probably be happy if it could secede from the rest of the country.  They are famous (or infamous) for passing stupid rules and regulations, trying to set itself apart from the rest of the country.

Remember, this is the city that in the 1980's declared itself a "Nuclear Free Zone", making it illegal for any nuclear weapons to pass overhead or enter the city.  Not that it mattered one little bit.  And I am sure that if WWIII had broken out, the Soviet Union would have respected that and not blown it up.  And when the USS Iowa (BB-61) was to be turned into a museum, the Navy thought that it would be fitting to let it reside in San Francisco, because of their long history of being a keystone of the Pacific Fleet.

However, the City Council used the same justification (the "don't ask - don't tell" policy) to deny the Navy from setting up a museum.  So instead the ship just sits in the San Joaquin River, with the rest of the "Mothball Fleet".  Of course, their loss may be the gain for Stockton.  Currently, it appears that the ship will be towed about 100 miles inland and be a Museum ship in the Central Valley.

And's don't forget, the "School Board" is really not about teachers and students.  School Board members are a bunch of politicians, playing political games with our children.  This is the same type of politicians who banned the Boy Scouts because they do not allow openly gay scoutmasters.  They did not give a damned about the kids in the Scouts, they only wanted to make some political statement.

God save people from politicans who wish to make petty "moral" based judgements.  Because their morals change frequently and swiftly.

Yes, it was Oakland.  And that is right across the Bay, a short drive across the Oakland Bridge.  Most of the Bay Area pretty much follows SF's lead when it comes to things like that.  Of course, San Francisco would probably be happy if it could secede from the rest of the country.  They are famous (or infamous) for passing stupid rules and regulations, trying to set itself apart from the rest of the country.

Remember, this is the city that in the 1980's declared itself a "Nuclear Free Zone", making it illegal for any nuclear weapons to pass overhead or enter the city.  Not that it mattered one little bit.  And I am sure that if WWIII had broken out, the Soviet Union would have respected that and not blown it up.  And when the USS Iowa (BB-61) was to be turned into a museum, the Navy thought that it would be fitting to let it reside in San Francisco, because of their long history of being a keystone of the Pacific Fleet.

However, the City Council used the same justification (the "don't ask - don't tell" policy) to deny the Navy from setting up a museum.  So instead the ship just sits in the San Joaquin River, with the rest of the "Mothball Fleet".  Of course, their loss may be the gain for Stockton.  Currently, it appears that the ship will be towed about 100 miles inland and be a Museum ship in the Central Valley.

And's don't forget, the "School Board" is really not about teachers and students.  School Board members are a bunch of politicians, playing political games with our children.  This is the same type of politicians who banned the Boy Scouts because they do not allow openly gay scoutmasters.  They did not give a damned about the kids in the Scouts, they only wanted to make some political statement.

God save people from politicans who wish to make petty "moral" based judgements.  Because their morals change frequently and swiftly.


If World War III broke out in the 1980s, it wouldn't matter if your city had zero nukes or a thousand nukes.  Either way, you'd be bending over backwards and kissing your azz goodbye!
:o

It's political quicksand, my man.  The more the Right condemns SF, the farther Left that city will go!  Anyway, conservatives should be grateful to San Fran for supplying them with one of their most cherished values: Righteous indignation!
::)

    I was very discouraged to read this.  If they ONLY realized what a mistake they are making.  So many of my former students join the JROTC when they get to High School and absolutely LOVE IT!!  I have witnessed first hand "wallflowers" turning into self-confident, bursting with pride bouquets. 


With one nitpick:  Do not use the phrase "bursting with pride bouquets" in a letter of reference, especially to a recruiter in SF.

With one nitpick:  Do not use the phrase "bursting with pride bouquets" in a letter of reference, especially to a recruiter in SF.

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/11/color.gif

It's political quicksand, my man.  The more the Right condemns SF, the farther Left that city will go!  Anyway, conservatives should be grateful to San Fran for supplying them with one of their most cherished values: Righteous indignation!
::)


I am not indignant, I am sad.  The same way I am saddened whenever politicians make decisions like this.  It does not hurt the military, ROTC is little more then a form of "Scouting".  Of course, I am not surprised since they banned Scouting years ago.

In something like this, only the kids who want to participate in this are hurt.  It reminds me of a district a few years ago that cancelled all sports programs that were not "co-ed".  Some politicians want to make a point, and force our kids to conform to their political values.  So they use the kids as a tool, because they do not want to help form their minds to make their own decisions as adults.  They only want little robots who will do whatever they are told to do.

And even worse, a lot of kids participate because they plan on a military career.  For those that are able to participate, they enter the service 1-2 ranks higher then everybody else.  And if they plan on going to college, it can give them a big leg up in applying for ROTC Scholarships.  And of course the JROTC program has it's own National Scholarship program, that gives scholarships wether a cadet goes on to ROTC and military service, or decides to never enter the military.

Plus the lifetime bonds that are formed.  I can't remember the last time I ran into somebody I knew from school that was not in ROTC.  Even after 23 years, I still keep in contact with several friends I made from ROTC.  I lost contact with everybody I knew that was not in the program.  Plus that is where I met my ex.  Band and ROTC are probably the biggest "co-ed" programs in most high schools.

In something like this, only the kids who want to participate in this are hurt.  It reminds me of a district a few years ago that cancelled all sports programs that were not "co-ed".  Some politicians want to make a point, and force our kids to conform to their political values.  So they use the kids as a tool, because they do not want to help form their minds to make their own decisions as adults.  They only want little robots who will do whatever they are told to do.

Welcome to Airstrip One!  I mean, it's a bit Orwellian.

Uhhhh....what do they do in ROTC again?  Smoke grass and talk about their feelings?
;D

I have noticed in Rightworld, it's the Stalinist secular progressives who hand out rubbers to sixth graders and teach them that America is an evil country, while the football coach and the drill sergeant are paragons of freedom and liberty!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_salut.gif

With one nitpick:  Do not use the phrase "bursting with pride bouquets" in a letter of reference, especially to a recruiter in SF.
  LOL    very true    ;D

I think it was Oakland that accepted it first.




You are correct and I apologize. In the Bay Area so many of the cities just kind of "run" together.  You only know you have entered a different city by the "Welcome to" sign and the street signs are different colors.      I grew up just south of S.F and now live about an hour east.  It is still one of my top favorite cities to visit, I LOVE the weather.      It is a beautiful city full of art, history and cultural.  It just has a school board, like many other places, that does not put the needs of the children first.  Which is sad.  :-\\

And calling San Francisco "Baghdad by the Bay" is just plain silly.  It sounds like Ann Coulter.
::)


Yes, its more like Bangkok by the Bay...

Or... BrokebackBay...

;)