I just saw this on the news and have CNN on now, definitely kind of disturbing.

http://www.cnn.com/

I'm watching the live feed on it right now. An FBI spokesperson said it wasn't terrorist related. And they're thinking it might have been a helicopter.

It's still horrendous though, and no doubt it's bringing back some awful memories for everybody. :-\\

Not fun for anybody.

As far as I can tell.. it almost looks like some sort of amateur pilot who's lost control and is way out of his depth. The plane was so small they don't even think it entered the building, it's just part of the debris.

I just got straight chills when I heard about. I think that's just about the last thing that people in manhattan need to see.

So far the feds are saying that there is no chance of this being connected with terrorism.

Last I heard Manhattan was a no fly over zone. The area is very close to the United Nations.  So where was the rapid response before the guy got there. It doesn't realy matter if it was a terrorist attack or not, what matters is that it was able to happen.  Tell me, are you any safer now than before the Patriot Act?

They're now saying that this plane was registered to Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle and that apparently he was supposed to take off today.

They're now saying that this plane was registered to Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle and that apparently he was supposed to take off today.


Oh shi.t!

They're confirming that it WAS Corey Lidle on the plane (according to ABC news).

And three people that were in the actual building died as well.

Horrible about the deaths. 
And as Danoota pointed out, why is some pipsqueak plane allowed to fly over Manhattan?  There might be something more sinister afoot here than just a simple accident.

Horrible about the deaths. 
And as Danoota pointed out, why is some pipsqueak plane allowed to fly over Manhattan?  There might be something more sinister afoot here than just a simple accident.



Are you insinuating Cory Lidle is a terrorist, or something?  This was nothing more than a horrible, horrible accident.....the same kind of accident that killed Thurman Munson 27 years ago.  I haven't read anything in any reputable news source about the FBI or any other organization looking at this in a way that would lead you to think something else was going on.

The question still is, is that area of Manhattan a no fly zone(It is mere blocks from the UN) and if it is why was he there?  I don't doubt that it was an accident, or perhaps suicide, but the fact is it happened and I believe that this is a serious breach of "homeland security"

^ It sounds more like he deviated from a flight plan in an inadvertent error and this led to the accident.  What a tragedy  :-\\

They're now saying that this plane was registered to Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle and that apparently he was supposed to take off today.

I was just thinking that when I saw this thread just now. Sports Zone has more details.

CNN is reporting that the two dead were Cory and a flight instructor.  Knowing that, there's a good possibility that he was not a expert flyer and deviated off course.  These kinds of accidents happen.......there's nothing sinister about that.

This still doesn't answer the question of "where was homeland security".  As I remember the island of Manhattan is a no fly zone.  He was with an experienced instructor.  He should not have been able to make it within 15 miles of Manhattan airspcae without a response by either radio or an armed escort.  If he was cleared to do it, he shouldn't have been, if he got there without a response from security then there isn't any security.

This still doesn't answer the question of "where was homeland security".  As I remember the island of Manhattan is a no fly zone.  He was with an experienced instructor.  He should not have been able to make it within 15 miles of Manhattan airspcae without a response by either radio or an armed escort.  If he was cleared to do it, he shouldn't have been, if he got there without a response from security then there isn't any security.


Yeah, this has less to do with Lidle and instructor being a terrorist and more to do with the lack of air traffic control.  That makes this whole situation all the more weird that there wasn't a more immediate response until they smashed into the building.

Still a tragedy  :-\\

Hmmm....imagine the response if they got shot out of the sky!
Well, we are in a "War on Terror," can't take any chances now can we?
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/14/nono.gif

This still doesn't answer the question of "where was homeland security".  As I remember the island of Manhattan is a no fly zone.  He was with an experienced instructor.  He should not have been able to make it within 15 miles of Manhattan airspace without a response by either radio or an armed escort.  If he was cleared to do it, he shouldn't have been, if he got there without a response from security then there isn't any security.


IMO "Homeland Security" is a myth, an utter joke when it comes to planes that are already in the air. I take it from the damage I saw that this plane was very small and probably didn't have much of a top speed, but intercepting a plane before it makes an "oops", or worse, another 9-11 is not going to ever happen here in a non-combat situation.

The only way that this could be achieved would be to have hundreds of fighter aircraft in the skies 24/7, with standing orders to shoot down any stray or non-responsive aircraft.

Even with all that has happened, I am not afraid of flying. However, if the above were to happen, I'd never fly again.

Suppose your pilot maneuvers around a storm and deviates a bit too far off his projected/logged flight plan. You're sitting there, watching the sh*tty on board movie, eating peanuts, and look out the window to see a missile headed your way. The end.

Even if this particular plane had been shot down, the falling wreckage would have likely killed far many more people than the plane hitting the building did.

My question is this: how the hell does one manage to hit a 40 story building with an aircraft? Was the weather *that* bad in NY today? Mechanical failure? Medical condition? Ex-girlfriend lived there? Suicide?

I don't suppose this plane had flight recorders....

My question is this: how the hell does one manage to hit a 40 story building with an aircraft? Was the weather *that* bad in NY today? Mechanical failure? Medical condition? Ex-girlfriend lived there? Suicide?


I've been watching ESPNEWS practically all day, and the weather was fine, he had no outstanding medical conditions or he would have been left off the playoff roster, I doubt he had an ex-girlfriend living there since he's from California and has only been in NY for a very short time, and considering his wife and child were en route to California at the time of the crash AND he was on his way to flying cross-country, I doubt it was suicide.

http://my.opera.com/war061/homes/albums/34114/thumbs/P1010018.jpg_thumb.jpg
SMALL PLANE

http://www.news10.net/assetpool/images/061011112456_bush2-185.jpg
SMALL BRAIN

All the politicking aside (sheesh!), the death of Cory Lidle has been all over the news here in NE Ohio. Hometown boy Thurman Munson died here in a 1979 plane crash. In fact, it happened at the Akron-Canton airport, just a couple of miles from my place. 

IMO "Homeland Security" is a myth, an utter joke when it comes to planes that are already in the air. I take it from the damage I saw that this plane was very small and probably didn't have much of a top speed, but intercepting a plane before it makes an "oops", or worse, another 9-11 is not going to ever happen here in a non-combat situation.

The only way that this could be achieved would be to have hundreds of fighter aircraft in the skies 24/7, with standing orders to shoot down any stray or non-responsive aircraft. 

Suppose your pilot maneuvers around a storm and deviates a bit too far off his projected/logged flight plan. You're sitting there, watching the sh*tty on board movie, eating peanuts, and look out the window to see a missile headed your way. The end.

Even if this particular plane had been shot down, the falling wreckage would have likely killed far many more people than the plane hitting the building did.
?

I don't suppose this plane had flight recorders....



I don't think planes this small have to be fitted with flight recorders.  There have been cases of planes approaching the airspace being intercepted and escorted away.  They also are required to have a flight plan that I believe would preclude them from being within 15 miles of Manhattan airspace.  Were they able to get clearance because of the dubious status of being a Yankee? That is what I am wondering about.  As I said, the hit was blocks away from the United Nations, I would think that that airspace would have a protected area wide enough to have had at the very least some kind of early, constant, communication between the plane and security. 

I agree it's very odd that he was flying over Manhatten which is indeed a no fly zone. However, the NY/NJ port authority had no record of him ever being in the air and the North American aviation authority was in the same position.
I'm pretty bemused and disapointed that after people have died there are still those who are desperate to politicize what is just a sad accident.
Shame on you. I expect the militant factions in congress to jump on these kind of things, I don't expect decent people to.

It's fairly obvious that this was an accident, anyway.. if you wanted to do some damage you wouldn't use such a small plane.. and suicide, gimmie a break. Lidle was a highly paid athlete with a new family.. he wasn't under anywhere near the same kind of pressure as guys like Randy Johnson and Alex Rodriguez, he was doing something he enjoyed doing and lost control. It happens. We've all fallen off of our bikes.

The only way to prevent something like this from happening again is to get to the reasons it happened this time.   

The only way to prevent something like this from happening again is to get to the reasons it happened this time.   


I'd say that human falability has been a factor in life ever since we crawled out of the primordial sludge.

The only way to prevent something like this from happening again is to get to the reasons it happened this time.   
That's true.And can you iomagine what it must have been like to have been the woman who was in her apartment that was squarely hit(she suffered minor burns).i mean,if you're in any type of vehicle,you realize something can happen no matter what.But when you're in your own home,you expect not to be in the middle of that.Must have scared the shhh out of her!

That's true.And can you iomagine what it must have been like to have been the woman who was in her apartment that was squarely hit(she suffered minor burns).i mean,if you're in any type of vehicle,you realize something can happen no matter what.But when you're in your own home,you expect not to be in the middle of that.Must have scared the shhh out of her!


If it was me I'd probably be somewhere in Montana right about now.

I agree it's very odd that he was flying over Manhatten which is indeed a no fly zone. However, the NY/NJ port authority had no record of him ever being in the air and the North American aviation authority was in the same position.
I'm pretty bemused and disapointed that after people have died there are still those who are desperate to politicize what is just a sad accident.
Shame on you. I expect the militant factions in congress to jump on these kind of things, I don't expect decent people to.

It's fairly obvious that this was an accident, anyway.. if you wanted to do some damage you wouldn't use such a small plane.. and suicide, gimmie a break. Lidle was a highly paid athlete with a new family.. he wasn't under anywhere near the same kind of pressure as guys like Randy Johnson and Alex Rodriguez, he was doing something he enjoyed doing and lost control. It happens. We've all fallen off of our bikes.

I see no reason to believe this incident was anything other than an accident.  You will find conspricy theorists who will say it was some kind of dry run for an October surprise.  I'm not one of them! 
The fact that the authorities waited until this amateur pilot smacked into an apartment building, and then went, "Huh?" is disturbing. 

They also lifted some of the "no-fly" restrictions around Manhattan so the tourist industry and rich guys could tool around up there again. 
"National security must take top priority, that's why we're listening to your phone conversations!
What? You're rich and your giving us a bunch of money?  Sure you can fly over Ground Zero!"
(I'm not saying Lidle himself had anything to do with the lessening of flight restrictions)
But look, if the let rich guys with private planes fly around undedtected, who knows what could happen? 

http://my.opera.com/war061/homes/albums/34114/thumbs/P1010018.jpg_thumb.jpg
SMALL PLANE

http://www.news10.net/assetpool/images/061011112456_bush2-185.jpg
SMALL BRAIN


LOL! :D ;D

Yeah, this has less to do with Lidle and instructor being a terrorist and more to do with the lack of air traffic control.  That makes this whole situation all the more weird that there wasn't a more immediate response until they smashed into the building.

Still a tragedy  :-\\


Yes it is :\'(

I see no reason to believe this incident was anything other than an accident.  You will find conspricy theorists who will say it was some kind of dry run for an October surprise.  I'm not one of them! 
The fact that the authorities waited until this amateur pilot smacked into an apartment building, and then went, "Huh?" is disturbing. 

They also lifted some of the "no-fly" restrictions around Manhattan so the tourist industry and rich guys could tool around up there again. 
"National security must take top priority, that's why we're listening to your phone conversations!
What? You're rich and your giving us a bunch of money?  Sure you can fly over Ground Zero!"
(I'm not saying Lidle himself had anything to do with the lessening of flight restrictions)
But look, if the let rich guys with private planes fly around undedtected, who knows what could happen? 


Exactly!
We should also remind people that the people who masterminded the WTC were not poor, digruntled, guys.  They were wealthy men of means, just the sort of person who would be able to get this kind of access.  The reason why the plane crashed is not paramount in terms of national security, the reason why it was able to be in where it was, is.

Exactly!
We should also remind people that the people who masterminded the WTC were not poor, digruntled, guys.  They were wealthy men of means, just the sort of person who would be able to get this kind of access.  The reason why the plane crashed is not paramount in terms of national security, the reason why it was able to be in where it was, is.

Just as our news media msileads us about the profile of your typical suicide bomber.  Turns out he is a college-educated man acting on political motives, rather than religious motives.  We always think of a wild-eyed Palestinian teenager on holy orders from his Imam!
::)