We all know the war was wrong, though there are those who still want to rationalize this, history will prove that to be true, I haven't any doubt.  My hometown has had its first casualty.  I didn't know him, but he is from home.
Edward Garvin 19 years old, graduated high school in 2005, married to elementary school sweetheart in May, only child.  Wanted to do what was right, and was thrown away with less thought then you would dispose of a chicken bone. What a waste.  I'd like to kick george and his whole smarmy retinue of c*cksuckers from here to DC and back again.

so sad and senseless. :\'(

Vermont has lost more men & women per capita than any other state. Granted, I didn't know any of them personally but whenever I read about another senseless loss (no matter where they were from), it really burns me. I have heard that one of my students (from way back) has joined the Army. Yes, I think about her and worry about her-as I do with all the men & women over there. BRING THEM HOME NOW!!!!





Cat

Just under 2800 confirmed U.S military fatalaties.
120 British troops confirmed dead.

There have been about 3000 recorded deaths now, but over 20,000 casualties. That's 20,000 that are probably not going to be able to ever work again seeing as a casualty is only counted if it's awful. Shrapnel wounds, a bullet in the arm.. things like that aren't counted.

This dude I know was over for his spell, he ended up coming back with one leg.

But remember, this war will be over within a year, 2 at the most.... 3 years ago.

a lot of canadians have been killed and wounded in afghanistan in the past month or so.

We've lost 80 U.S. military personell so far this month.  Maybe more. 
Remember, it doesn't count as a combat fatality if they airlift you off the battlefield before you die.  Medical technology has improved to the point where many thousands of soldiers who would have just died of their wounds in Vietnam can now be saved.  Now they are coming back partially or completely disabled.  Most will need one or more of the following-- physical therapy programs, adaptive devices, pain management, medications, chronic treatments, and/or psychiatric care for the years--perhaps the rest of their lives.

Bush doesn't care a honk about any of them.  He and his vile cabinet do care that you NOT see coffins of the fallen dead, and they certainly don't want you thinking about the tens of thousands of suffering vets.  Oh yeah, the VA treats them like garbage too. 
>:(

  Oh yeah, the VA treats them like garbage too. 
>:(




Tell me about it.  ::)



Cat

Tell me about it.  ::)



Cat

OK, now imagine you're a combat vet, double amputee, blind, with PTSD.  Boy, that costs a little of money!  It's cheaper to print out some forms.  So that's what they do.  If you are 100% disabled they make you fill out so much paperwork, you, your spouse, your mother, and your brother will all die before you ever get finished filling it out!
::)

OK, now imagin you're a combat vet, double amputee, blind, with PTSD.  Boy, that costs a little of money!  It's cheaper to print out some forms.  So that's what they do.  If you are 100% disabled they make you fill out so much paperwork, you, your spouse, your mother, and your brother will all die before you ever get finished filling it out!
::)



You don't have to convince me, Max. I know from personal experience how the V.A. treats vets. I'm sure you (as well as most people here) know that I am a disabled vet-not combat related mind you but a disable vet nevertheless. Every year I have to fight (like I am doing at this very moment) for them to pay for a simple mammogram. And yes, I am 100% disabled and blind!



Cat

You don't have to convince me, Max. I know from personal experience how the V.A. treats vets. I'm sure you (as well as most people here) know that I am a disabled vet-not combat related mind you but a disable vet nevertheless. Every year I have to fight (like I am doing at this very moment) for them to pay for a simple mammogram. And yes, I am 100% disabled and blind!


Well, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and our government drones on perpetually about how much they honor those who serve their country in the armed forces.  The way the government adminstrates the VA shows us it's all a lot of hot air.  Ronald Reagan tripled the defense budget, but that was only to enrich Pentagon contractors.  At the same time, that administration slashed VA benefits like crazy.  Homeless veterans appeared on every city streetcorner during Reagan's first term.  The difference is the Pentagon is in the business of killing people.  The Veterans Administration is in the business of helping people.  Well, we shouldn't have government-provided social services for anybody, includiing veterans.  So if we must, let's make the process as burdensome and humiliating as possible.  A lot of decent people work for the VA.  It's the management that needs reform.

Well, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and our government drones on perpetually about how much they honor those who serve their country in the armed forces.  The way the government adminstrates the VA shows us it's all a lot of hot air.  Ronald Reagan tripled the defense budget, but that was only to enrich Pentagon contractors.  At the same time, that administration slashed VA benefits like crazy.  Homeless veterans appeared on every city streetcorner during Reagan's first term.  The difference is the Pentagon is in the business of killing people.  The Veterans Administration is in the business of helping people.  Well, we shouldn't have government-provided social services for anybody, includiing veterans.  So if we must, let's make the process as burdensome and humiliating as possible.  A lot of decent people work for the VA.  It's the management that needs reform.



I keep receiving bills from that mammogram and I have often thought about just paying for it myself but then I think, THAT IS MY ENTITLEMENT!!! I'm NOT going to back down from this. Right now the case is at Bernie's Sanders' office. And apparently, I am not the only one with this problem. Maybe once Bernie gets to the Senate, he can submit a bill to help the V.A.




Cat

It really is mindboggling that these are mainly teenage kids fighting this war, most of whom probably don't even remember the first Gulf War from the early 90s.

It really is mindboggling that these are mainly teenage kids fighting this war, most of whom probably don't even remember the first Gulf War from the early 90s.



Unfortunately, that it the way with ALL wars. There is a great line that Henry Blake said in the series M*A*S*H that he was taught at commander school. "Rule number 1: Young men die. Rule number 2: doctors can't change Rule number 1." 




Cat

How to insure kids join up for combat duty:

1. Do teach patriotism.
2. Do not teach history.

The kid got it from a bomb.  The only identifiable thing left is his dog tags.  >:(

Unfortunately, that it the way with ALL wars. There is a great line that Henry Blake said in the series M*A*S*H that he was taught at commander school. "Rule number 1: Young men die. Rule number 2: doctors can't change Rule number 1." 


"War is old men talking and young men dieing."

"Older men declare war, but it is the youth that must fight and die."  - Herbert Hoover

My Senior Class President was killed about a year into the war.  I hate to admit it, but up until that point I had been somewhat ambivalent about it.  I wanted to belive that we were there for the right reasons, though day by day it was becoming more and more apparent that we weren't.  After he was killed, it occured to me that I had no idea what he died for.  I still don't know.

Yet another reason to despise that fool in the White House and all his jackass cronies.

"Older men declare war, but it is the youth that must fight and die."  - Herbert Hoover

My Senior Class President was killed about a year into the war.  I hate to admit it, but up until that point I had been somewhat ambivalent about it.  I wanted to belive that we were there for the right reasons, though day by day it was becoming more and more apparent that we weren't.  After he was killed, it occured to me that I had no idea what he died for.  I still don't know.


The word infantry didn't  come from nowhere! But now they are accepting guys in their late 30s and early 40s as volunteers.  There aren't a lot of guys my age and up who are interested in volunteering for a pointless, unwinnable war. 
It isn't just that young people are in the prime of their physical fitness.  It's that young people are less likely to be entrenched in careers and family...though there are an awful lot of young war widows/widowers out there who have to explain to their little kids why daddy or mommy is never coming home. 
:\'(
Then they have to try to figure out how to make ends meet on ONE income, which you used to be able to do in this country.

It just seems to me like these psychopaths--Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice et al.---don't care about the toll it takes on human lives and families.  It would be morally palatable if we were in a necessary and winnable war.  We're not even in a war.  We are in a bloody occupation and we could stay there getting killed by the dozens every week for the next twenty years!

If you want to call it "cut and run," go right ahead.  Whatever you wanna call it, that's what we're going to have to do.  We could nuke Baghdad until it shines like a Glowstick, but we'll never force Iraq into a Jeffersonian democracy.  They're in a civil war and they are going to have to work it out for themselves.

The fact that the Bushies are making overtures to attacking Iran indicates they are completely insane and need to be forced from office...if not by Congress, then by the people themselves. You can only put up with Caligula for so long.

  There's just a few things we need to get clear...

  (1) The US soldiers are volunteers: they chose to enlist...
  - (1a) Yes, I change the rules for conscripts...

  (2) The US invasion of Iraq contravenes the rules of engagement the United States has agreed to; this is why it is called an "illegal war" by some...

  (3) The US invasion of Iraq went forward under a false pretext...

  (4) People get hurt, captured, resuced, and some of them get killed in wars...

  (5) The circumstances under which this war will create a "hero" are limited and severe...

  (6) A volunteer participating in an illegal war, is solely responsible for putting him/herself in a situation where these things can happen...
  - (6a) This does not justify any inappropriate treatment at the hands of captors...

  Iraqi Civillians Reported Killed by Military Intervention:  Min - 43850
                                                                                  Max - 48693

  groove ;) on...

  (6) A volunteer participating in an illegal war, is solely responsible for putting him/herself in a situation where these things can happen...
  - (6a) This does not justify any inappropriate treatment at the hands of captors...




Volunteering to serve in the US millitary does not make a person solely responsible for putting him/herself in a situation where these things can happen.  Volunteering to serve ones country in the military is a laudable action. Volunteering to serve ones country does not justify the inappropriate treatment at the hands of ones government.

   There's just a few things we need to get clear...

   (1) The US soldiers are volunteers: they chose to enlist...
   - (1a) Yes, I change the rules for conscripts...

   (2) The US invasion of Iraq contravenes the rules of engagement the United States has agreed to; this is why it is called an "illegal war" by some...

   (3) The US invasion of Iraq went forward under a false pretext...

   (4) People get hurt, captured, resuced, and some of them get killed in wars...

   (5) The circumstances under which this war will create a "hero" are limited and severe...

   (6) A volunteer participating in an illegal war, is solely responsible for putting him/herself in a situation where these things can happen...
   - (6a) This does not justify any inappropriate treatment at the hands of captors...

   Iraqi Civillians Reported Killed by Military Intervention:  Min - 43850
                                                                                  Max - 48693

   groove ;) on...

655,000 Iraqi civilians killed since 2003, according to the Lancet medical journal.
http://www.airamerica.com/node/2756

I can't say why all soldiers volunteer, but many are seeking career opportunities, funds for college, and a better life for themselves and their families.  A lot of the troops over their are our National Guard.  Tha National Guard isn't trained for the job, as Scott Ritter points out.  Nothing against the National Guard, mind you. 

You wouldn't send a dentist to perform heart surgery.

When those men and women signed up, they didn't sign up for an illegal war in which they would be ask to violate international law.  You can say "no" and go to Leavenworth for 30 years if you want!
::)

I can't say why all soldiers volunteer, but many are seeking career opportunities, funds for college, and a better life for themselves and their families.  A lot of the troops over their are our National Guard.  Tha National Guard isn't trained for the job, as Scott Ritter points out.  Nothing against the National Guard, mind you. 

You wouldn't send a dentist to perform heart surgery.

When those men and women signed up, they didn't sign up for an illegal war in which they would be ask to violate international law.  You can say "no" and go to Leavenworth for 30 years if you want!
::)


  I hold that there is a difference between the choice to join the military on any given day and the choice to join the military under duress of law...

  As such, I leave broader leeway for poor judgment under duress of war.  Not much, but some...

  Additionally, when the war itself is unpopular ... well, holding the folks who are there under duress of law responsible for that unpopularity and making them a scapegoat seems to miss the point.  That's a separate point, I think, but I agree...

  The shock and awe shown by some of my American neighbors, the rumblings of a press corps seeking a headline and stirring up all sorts of crap in the water cooler, and the mantra of "God bless the USA," and the wrecking of the seventh-inning stretch, and the whole of the war culture seems bent on lending moral legitimacy to a bunch of volunteers who chose to follow their presidents come Hell or heavy sandstorm.  If the duty undertaken by these volunteers includes the New American Century, then I think right there is a strike against the automatic deference of honor and respect to the modern (American) soldier...

  But beyond the suspension of automatic moral elevation, these soldiers, too, are human.  We owe them compassion in the face of their sins when they sin.  And yes, I have a little more compassion for the conscripts.  Doesn't mean you don't hold them responsible.  But apparently I'm the only one who sees the difference between a frightened teenage conscript failing to understand the problems of some of his orders and the idea of a volunteer who, in conscious choosing of the warring path, has less reason to have missed or to forget, on occasion, certain points of refinement groove ;) on...

  But apparently I'm the only one who sees the difference between a frightened teenage conscript failing to understand the problems of some of his orders and the idea of a volunteer who, in conscious choosing of the warring path, has less reason to have missed or to forget, on occasion, certain points of refinement groove ;) on...


Volunteers are sometimes frightened, brainwashed volunteers who because they lack the education can not discern the differring reasons as to why wars are waged, and go into it thinking that they are doing the right thing by giving back to their country.  Not all volunteers are gung ho gonna get me a commie types.  They are stand up, support the country that supports me types, usually though, their country has let them down in more ways than one. 

Volunteers are sometimes frightened, brainwashed volunteers who because they lack the education can not discern the differring reasons as to why wars are waged, and go into it thinking that they are doing the right thing by giving back to their country.  Not all volunteers are gung ho gonna get me a commie types.  They are stand up, support the country that supports me types, usually though, their country has let them down in more ways than one.   


  You're right, of course...

  You're saying we can still measure soldiers by who they are and what they choose to stand for.  Even I had soldier fantasies when I was younger, but I consider the basis of those aspirations to be falsehoods...

  In our lifetime, it has been considered "rude" to find atrocities atrocious.  I think this diminishes the soldier...

  None of it explains Vietnam, though.  They should have been carving the political establishment to pieces instead of spitting on soldiers.  Seems rather...misdirected... groove ;) on...

  In our lifetime, it has been considered "rude" to find atrocities atrocious.  I think this diminishes the soldier...

  None of it explains Vietnam, though.  They should have been carving the political establishment to pieces instead of spitting on soldiers.  Seems rather...misdirected... groove ;) on...



The incidence of spitting on soldiers is, in my opinion, way overblown.  I"m  sure that it happened, but to equate the people who did that to the movement as a whole is like equating clinic bombers to the anti abortion crowd.  Some people look for a reason to justify their bad behaviour.  Most people in the anti war movement were(are) there because they arem against wars and many have someone close, or knew or know who is being sent to the slaughter to satisfy the egos of the powerful.

Military recruiters don't spend a heck of a lot of their time pitching to seniors at Andover or Groton.  Which do you want, Princeton or boot camp?
::)

I never forgot the teachers I had who were Vietnam vets saying a lot of the guys they landed in Vietnam with didn't even know what part of the world they were in!

Military recruiters don't spend a heck of a lot of their time pitching to seniors at Andover or Groton.  Which do you want, Princeton or boot camp?
::)

I never forgot the teachers I had who were Vietnam vets saying a lot of the guys they landed in Vietnam with didn't even know what part of the world they were in!


Heck, a lot of recruits today don't know where Canada is.

Heck, a lot of recruits today don't know where Canada is.

Boy, it was sure handy to know where Canada was in the Vietnam days!
;)

Boy, it was sure handy to know where Canada was in the Vietnam days!
;)


;D

My Senior Class President was killed about a year into the war.  I hate to admit it, but up until that point I had been somewhat ambivalent about it.  I wanted to belive that we were there for the right reasons, though day by day it was becoming more and more apparent that we weren't.  After he was killed, it occured to me that I had no idea what he died for.  I still don't know.


For what little it's worth (and for once in my posting history), I'll be serious:  he died for his friends, alongside whom he fought.

That's a good enough reason for me to be serious for a few moments.  If you ever meet his miliary friends, ask them what they remember about him.  They'll have stories.  They might not want to tell them, in which case, fine.  But they might want to tell you some stories.  If they do, I  recommend that you listen.  For them, for him, and maybe even - even if some of the stories might be hard to listen to - for yourself.

I'm a civilian.  But the most interesting conversations I've had have been on Veterans' Day, and they've happened by walking around town until I've seen a guy in uniform asking for donations.  And instead of just stuffing a few bucks in the slot, sticking around for 30-40 seconds to talk.  Sometimes they don't want to talk.  Sometimes they do.  They're always surprised and grateful that someone was genuinely interested in where they served, instead of just mumbling "thanksferyerservice" and running away.

Somewhere there's a guy who went from France to Berlin, and I got to shake his hand. He's probably not alive anymore.  But the Marine who was one of the Chosin Few is probably still around.  The guy almost had a heart attack when he saw this mangy civvie staring slack-jawed at the relevant decoration and asking him if I'd correctly recognized that it indicated that he'd served there.  "Yeah, but I don't want to talk about it."  "Hey, I'm a civilian, as if my hair and beer gut isn't a dead giveaway.  I've read enough history to know that anything you'd say would be more than I'd understand anyways.  Just - thanks."  "Thanks."  "No sir, thank you."  (And he was either an officer, or he was too polite to remind me that he worked for a living :-)

And both our days were a bit brighter for it.

For what little it's worth (and for once in my posting history), I'll be serious:  he died for his friends, alongside whom he fought.

That's a good enough reason for me to be serious for a few moments.  If you ever meet his miliary friends, ask them what they remember about him.  They'll have stories.  They might not want to tell them, in which case, fine.  But they might want to tell you some stories.  If they do, I  recommend that you listen.  For them, for him, and maybe even - even if some of the stories might be hard to listen to - for yourself.

I'm a civilian.  But the most interesting conversations I've had have been on Veterans' Day, and they've happened by walking around town until I've seen a guy in uniform asking for donations.  And instead of just stuffing a few bucks in the slot, sticking around for 30-40 seconds to talk.  Sometimes they don't want to talk.  Sometimes they do.  They're always surprised and grateful that someone was genuinely interested in where they served, instead of just mumbling "thanksferyerservice" and running away.

Somewhere there's a guy who went from France to Berlin, and I got to shake his hand. He's probably not alive anymore.  But the Marine who was one of the Chosin Few is probably still around.  The guy almost had a heart attack when he saw this mangy civvie staring slack-jawed at the relevant decoration and asking him if I'd correctly recognized that it indicated that he'd served there.  "Yeah, but I don't want to talk about it."  "Hey, I'm a civilian, as if my hair and beer gut isn't a dead giveaway.  I've read enough history to know that anything you'd say would be more than I'd understand anyways.  Just - thanks."  "Thanks."  "No sir, thank you."  (And he was either an officer, or he was too polite to remind me that he worked for a living :-)

And both our days were a bit brighter for it.


My dad was a WWII vet.  Didn't talk about it.  I once asked him if he had to kill anyone.  He said yes, and when I took a trip to France he asked me to go to Normandy because he had landed there and lost some friends.  That is all I know. I also know that he was fiercely against Viet Nam.

My dad was a WWII vet.  Didn't talk about it.  I once asked him if he had to kill anyone.  He said yes, and when I took a trip to France he asked me to go to Normandy because he had landed there and lost some friends.  That is all I know. I also know that he was fiercely against Viet Nam.

My dad could have gone to Vietnam if he was gung-ho enough to volunteer.  He was in that pre-Boomer crowd (b. 1940), so he was a bit old for the draft.  Anyway, when he was 27, he was a Harvard doctoral candidate with long hair and smoking a lot of reefer.  Kid, we don't like yer kind...

My eighth grade history teacher was a Vietnam vet.  We were discussing Vietnam in class and one of the kids asked him if he ever killed anyone over there.  I wondered myself, but had the tact not to ask!  Mr. Sheehan wouldn't answer the question.  Couldn't blame him.  You know how eighth grade kids are.  If he said "no," he's a wimp.  If he said "yes," he's a monster.  I would have said yes, though my principal wouldn't like it.  If the kids all thought I was Colonel Kurtz, they wouldn't mouth off and skip class!  Heh heh!  If you teach eighth grade, it is better to be feared than to be loved!
;)

When I was about 9 or so, my sister had a friend who was just recently back from Nam. I'm not too sure what the circumstances were but he was sleeping on our couch. My sister told me to go wake him up. I woke him up like you would normally wake someone up-I shook him a bit. He started attacking me until he became aware of where he was and who he was attacking. Scared the sh!t out me and my sister just laughed.  ::)  I don't remember the guy's reaction after he woke up-I'm sure he apoligized but I was so scared that I ran to my room.




Cat

When I was about 9 or so, my sister had a friend who was just recently back from Nam. I'm not too sure what the circumstances were but he was sleeping on our couch. My sister told me to go wake him up. I woke him up like you would normally wake someone up-I shook him a bit. He started attacking me until he became aware of where he was and who he was attacking. Scared the sh!t out me and my sister just laughed.  ::)  I don't remember the guy's reaction after he woke up-I'm sure he apoligized but I was so scared that I ran to my room.




Cat

Uhhh, if that vet was a bit more tweaked-out, things could have been much worse.  The guy's nerves were probably fried and he was suffering from fatigue.

One of the differences between Vietnam and earlier wars was troops were flown home.  In as little as 48 hours a soldier could go from the theater of war to the American suburbs!  When "coming home" meant tooling around in the ocean for a few weeks or months, the change from combat to civilian life was not so jarring.  You had time to unwind on the boat.  You were still under martial regulations.  Your adjustment from soldier's life to civilian's life was gradual.

Uhhh, if that vet was a bit more tweaked-out, things could have been much worse.  The guy's nerves were probably fried and he was suffering from fatigue.


Tell me about it. At the time, I couldn't understand what I did to make the guy attack me so. As I got older, I realized that it had nothing to do with me and then I felt bad for the guy-knowing what he must have been through.



One of the differences between Vietnam and earlier wars was troops were flown home.  In as little as 48 hours a soldier could go from the theater of war to the American suburbs!  When "coming home" meant tooling around in the ocean for a few weeks or months, the change from combat to civilian life was not so jarring.  You had time to unwind on the boat.  You were still under martial regulations.  Your adjustment from soldier's life to civilian's life was gradual.



You could be right. I'm not sure. Does anyone "get over" being in combat?



Cat

My maternal grandfather did a tour in Korea and two in Nam, and he rarely ever talks. When he does it's just small talk, and he NEVER talks about life in the military. It's because of his introverted nature that, though I've known him my whole life, I actually do not know him at all and have interacted verbally with him only for a total of perhaps 30 minutes in my whole life. My aunts say his quiet nature has a lot to do with his wartime experiences.

I heard of one experience where he lost his best friend like three days before his friend was due to go back home. After that he learned not to make friends, and learn he did because to this day he hasn't one single friend. No drinking buddies, nothing.

You could be right. I'm not sure. Does anyone "get over" being in combat?



I don't think so, not unless your humanity was compromised to start with, as in being a complete psychopath!  The severity of post trauma depends on the the individual and the combat situations. 

After WWII we suppressed a lot of the PTSD the vets were suffering.  A lot of WWII vets just never talked about it and drowned themselves in alcohol.  Vietnam vets only seemed to have it harder because our culture was willing to acknowledge their mental anguish.  Today the U.S. government is trying to suppress it all again.  They'd do away with the whole PTSD diagnosis if the could!

I HIGHLY recommend going to see the movie "Flags of Our Fathers". Very heavy and very realistic. Talk about the "cost of war".




Cat

Yeah. FouF was very good.

I lost a very good friend of mine at the end of last year.

Chief Warrant Officer Isaias E. Santos was born in Panama, and all of his life wanted to be a US Soldier.  His parents divorced when he was young, and his mother moved to Puerto Rico, while he had to stay in Panama with his father.  After he graduated High School, he moved to Puerto Rico and enroled in a local Community College in order to learn English.  2 years later, he joined the National Guard, and after 4 years recieved flight training.

He was engagued to my boss's daughter, and in October 2005 returned to Iraq for his second tour of duty.  He volunteered for this, and by the time he returned, he was hoping to have both his US Citizenship, and his commission transfered to the US Army.  His goal was to be a career Officer, and eventually move from the Blackhawk to the Apache.

He died on 27 December, when his Blackhawk crashed into another one in mid-air.  He and his pilot were killed, the pilot and copilot of the other bird were able to make an emergency landing and survived.  I was with some friends celebrating my birthday when I got the news, and it turned into an imprompteu memorial for us.

He was neither stupid, nor ignorant.  In fact, he was not even a US citizen.  But he was doing what he always wanted to do.

But the Marine who was one of the Chosin Few is probably still around.  The guy almost had a heart attack when he saw this mangy civvie staring slack-jawed at the relevant decoration and asking him if I'd correctly recognized that it indicated that he'd served there.  "Yeah, but I don't want to talk about it."  "Hey, I'm a civilian, as if my hair and beer gut isn't a dead giveaway.  I've read enough history to know that anything you'd say would be more than I'd understand anyways.  Just - thanks."  "Thanks."  "No sir, thank you."  (And he was either an officer, or he was too polite to remind me that he worked for a living :-)

And both our days were a bit brighter for it.


I was attending an anti-war domonstration when one of the Chosin Few began smashing our signs with his kane. I rushed up to the geezer and he told me I was a traitor for holding up a big blue U.N. flag. I told him that he was a doofus because he fought under that very samew flag in Korea. The jerk didn't seem to get it

I was attending an anti-war domonstration when one of the Chosin Few began smashing our signs with his kane. I rushed up to the geezer and he told me I was a traitor for holding up a big blue U.N. flag. I told him that he was a doofus because he fought under that very samew flag in Korea. The jerk didn't seem to get it

Boy, if Dick Nixon were in the White House, that old geezer woulda knocked your frickin' teeth right out' your head  and he wouldn'ta spent a lotta time thinkin' about it neither!  You, some ingrate, disrespecting a man who fought to protect YOUR right to protest the war!  If you ask me, we've gotten a bit too femmy since all that women's lib crap!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/14/protest.gif