According to the ACLU:
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/detention/26947prs20060928.html

Amnesty International:

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist says in the National Review Online:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZjBmNjk4YjIzNDNjYWM2ZDA2NjdkYzBlZGQ2ZGE1YjU=


I'm still forming my own opinion of the detainee bill, but so far I agree with the opinion expressed in this blog editorial:

http://americaabroad.tpmcafe.com/blog/thirdestate/2006/sep/29/the_war_on_terror_is_over

There is debate in the media as to whether or not the military commissions would be used to prosecute U.S. citizens.  My guess is that they will.  It is obvious to me George W. Bush, our commander-in-thief, wants to be able to call anybody he doesn't like an "enemy combatant" and strip that individual of his or her Constitutional rights.

I never thought our government would dare to deprive anybody of habeas corpus.  Habeas corpus means an individual detained by the state has the right to hear the charges against him or her.  Habeas corpus means the court must present the detainee in front of a judge who must publically disclose the reason the person is being detained.  Pretty basic.  Why deny this provision?  Why not just use kangaroo courts and bogus charges?  It's the same supreme arrogance that directs the Bushies to refuse to obtain a court order for wiretapping.  It is the most obtuse demonstration of rude power possible.  It says, "to hell with the Constitution, we do what we want to whom we want, when we want, and where we want, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it." 

The retroactive applications of the powers set forth in this bill are clearly ex post facto law, and are null and void without a Constitutional amendment to Article 1, section 9.

All legislators who voted for this bill are unfit to serve in public office--especially the Democrats who should know better.  In the divisive spirit of the times, I see only two options for lawmakers here.  You're either a bully or a coward.  You're a bully if you support the legislation out of conviction.  You're a coward if you support the legislation out of fear of what others may say if you don't.  You're still a coward if you do not fight tooth-and-nail to get this unconstitutional weapon against humanity repealed forthwith.

What do you think? 

I think my head is still spinning, my heart is still pounding, and every time I think this federal government cannot get more horrendous, it does!

According to the ACLU:
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/detention/26947prs20060928.html

Amnesty International:

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist says in the National Review Online:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZjBmNjk4YjIzNDNjYWM2ZDA2NjdkYzBlZGQ2ZGE1YjU=


I'm still forming my own opinion of the detainee bill, but so far I agree with the opinion expressed in the blog editorial:

http://americaabroad.tpmcafe.com/blog/thirdestate/2006/sep/29/the_war_on_terror_is_over

There is debate in the media as to whether or not the military commissions would be used to prosecute U.S. citizens.  My guess is that they will.  It is obvious to me George W. Bush, our commander-in-thief, wants to be able to call anybody he doesn't like an "enemy combatant" and strip that individual of his or her Constitutional rights.

I never thought our government would dare to deprive anybody of habeas corpus.  Habeas corpus means an individual detained by the state has the right to hear the charges against him or her.  Habeas corpus means the court must present the detainee in front of a judge who must publically disclose the reason the person is being detained.  Pretty basic.  Why deny this provision?  Why not just use kangaroo courts and bogus charges?  It's the same supreme arrogance that directs the Bushies to refuse to obtain a court order for wiretapping.  It is the most obtuse demonstration of rude power possible.  It says, "to hell with the Constitution, we do what we want to whom we want, when we want, and where we want, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it." 

The retroactive applications of the powers set forth in this bill are clearly ex post facto law, and are null and void without a Constitutional amendment to Article 1, section 9.

All legislators who voted for this bill are unfit to serve in public office--especially the Democrats who should know better.  In the divisive spirit of the times, I see only two options for lawmakers here.  You're either a bully or a coward.  You're a bully if you support the legislation out of conviction.  You're a coward if you support the legislation out of fear of what others may say if you don't.  You're still a coward if you do not fight tooth-and-nail to get this unconstitutional weapon against humanity repealed forthwith.

What do you think? 

I think my head is still spinning, my heart is still pounding, and every time I think this federal government cannot get more horrendous, it does!



I think we're ready for a revolution.

I think we're ready for a revolution.

Well, they're not giving us much choice, are they?
::)

Well, they're not giving us much choice, are they?
::)


No, not particularly. I propose we form a union of the Northeastern quadrant, to Minnesota, and move our capitol to Pittsburgh.

I think we're ready for a revolution.



I was thinking the same thing. That is one of the reasons why we fought against King George III (of England that is). We just may have to do it again against King George III of the U.S.





Cat

I think we're ready for a revolution.



Yes, this country needs more war.  Hell, there aren't enough Americans dying as it is.  Better yet, let's do it Civil War style and put each opposing group in complimentary colors like blue and gray.  That worked out well last time. 

[quote author=

There are some things worth fighting and dying for. Oil and slaves are not. But freedom for all is.



Right.  More war.  That's just what we need.  There aren't enough people bitching about troops being sent to die in one war.....let's make ANOTHER war for troops to be sent to and then die in.  You are aware that volunteer enlistment levels are down, and that if they can't get enough people to fill the ranks, they'll have to bring back the draft, right?  Yeah, that's just what this powder keg needs....a draft. 

Sorry, but I'd rather the "revolution" occur without guns and bloodshed.  Like this country isn't f*cked up enough.  I've had enough of war to last me the rest of my life.  ENOUGH.

[quote author=

Would you rather live under a corrupt government that deprives citizens of their rights?

I guess I'm the type of person that doesn't get involved until it personally affects my life.  So far, it hasn't.  My rights haven't been f*cked with.  I'm not scared of cops coming up to my front door and hauling my ass to jail for no good reason.  I find it hard to get involved in anything political that doesn't affect me on a personal level.  I'm more than happy to leave that to others, even if I don't always agree with the tactics they use.  I'm a pacifist, you could say.  I think war should be a last-ditch effort and not the first line of defense.  Am I happy with what's going on?  No.  I really, really want things to change but I'd prefer people use other means of getting it done. 


War sucks, but if its the only option you have to keep America free, I don't see why you would hesitate to support it.


I am not scared of America not being free anymore.  Sorry.  I don't believe we're all going to end up in some f*cked up police state like 1984.  I don't buy into that stuff. 

[quote author=

I feel that Nov. is the last chance this country has to right all the wrongs of the last 5 years. If that doesn't happen, I don't think we are going to have a country left.


I don't believe that statement one bit.  I refuse to drink that Kool-Aid and walk around believing that if the Dems don't win in November, suddenly we'll all be living in a 1984-esque police state.  I don't fear that this country will cease to exist.  I fear that people are going to lose their minds, go batsh*t crazy and convince other people to do the same.

When I see the tanks rolling down my street, then I'll get concerned.  Until then, it's the virulent anti-Bush crowd and their propaganda to scare people.  I won't buy into that fear.

I am not scared of America not being free anymore.  Sorry.  I don't believe we're all going to end up in some f*cked up police state like 1984.  I don't buy into that stuff. 


  The issue is that the checks and balances are being eroded.  Congress has abdicated it's responsibility to check and balance this president...
   
  "No ex post facto Law shall be passed."

  This worries me, of course, but I'm not panic stricken yet...go ;)...

[quote author=

Ok. You can sit by as our rights are being erroded and pretend that it doesn't effect you personally.



Don't call me a Nazi or even worse, a Nazi sympathizer.  I had family persecuted by the Nazis.....that sh*t is not funny.  It really, really isn't.  I take that stuff more personally than I would anything else.  I had to deal with that crap from narrow-minded dumbf*cks when I was in school.


Furthermore, as I stated in another post I made in this thread:

I find it hard to get involved in anything political that doesn't affect me on a personal level.  I'm more than happy to leave that to others, even if I don't always agree with the tactics they use.  I'm a pacifist, you could say.  I think war should be a last-ditch effort and not the first line of defense.  Am I happy with what's going on?  No.  I really, really want things to change but I'd prefer people use other means of getting it done.

Please tell me where that says that I'm happy or otherwise content to let things be as they are.  I said that I don't personally get involved because I am not as politically-minded as other people here are.  I said that I'm a pacifist and believe war should be an absolute last-ditch effort to solve a problem.  I said I was more than happy to let people who WANT to get involved do it, because they are more knowledgeable on the subject than I am.  I said that I DO NOT LIKE WHAT'S GOING ON and that I WANT THINGS TO CHANGE, but feel war shouldn't be the first thought to solve it. 

I have always been politically apathetic, but that doesn't mean if the country descends to 1984, I'm just going to sit in a chair and go la-dee-da.  I also don't believe everything the anti-Bush crowd tells me, because as I stated in another thread, when you hate something enough, you'll say anything to convince people to not only listen to you, but think you're right.  I've seen it dozens of times in situations that have nothing to do with politics. 

I never said anything about war! Gott in Himmel, take a chill pill!

[quote author=

I never said anything about war! Gott in Himmel, take a chill pill!



So you're in favor of a peaceful revolution?  I can get behind that.

[quote author=

You're so naive its incredible.


I prefer "politically apathetic".  I also don't call not believing everything I hear/read as "naive".  I call it "not believing everything I hear/read".  But if you're okay with name-calling, that's your bag.  I also don't believe in living in constant fear and paranoia. 

[quote author=

I don't like war either. I don't like the fact that there are men, women, and children dying in Iraq for OIL!!!  I don't like the fact that my country that I was proud to serve is now being taken over by a bunch of fascists who have been using the Constitution as toilet paper.


Oh, that gives me more optimism.  See, I thought they had no use for the Constitution!
:D

I just hope Uncle Bernie doesn't have a stroke this week!

I mean, gee whiz, whatever happened to the conservatives who wanted government out of your life as much as possible?  Whatever happened to Republicans who believed in small government.  Wait a minute, that one still applies!  They believe in small government---George W. Bush alone---and that's as small as you can get!
:o

[quote author=

[quote author=

[quote author=

http://www.montypythonpages.com/pictures/LoB/233.jpg
"Terrific lot, the Romans!  Terrific!"

[quote author=

You will not be able to stay home, brother.
You will not be able to plug in, turn on and cop out.
You will not be able to lose yourself on skag and skip,
Skip out for beer during commercials,
Because the revolution will not be televised.......

                                        Gil Scott-Heron


Karma point to you for GS-H.  However, I'm afraid the fascist revolution really was televised!  It all started when FOX News pulled a fast one and called Florida for Dubya in 2001....

Karma point to you for GS-H.  However, I'm afraid the fascist revolution really was televised!  It all started when FOX News pulled a fast one and called Florida for Dubya in 2001....


Karma right back at you for pointing that out 

I've always been rather apolitical myself namely because I think politics is the biggest scam ever played on common people but with the selection of GW as President I rather thought that had bad tidings for my happy ass.  And it has.  This guy was my governer and he just loved to watch people get exeucted.  There wasn't a single execution that guy missed.  He would get a jizz in his pants every time he got to watch someone die.  Now instead of state sanctioned executions he gets to execute people on a global scale.  His pants are constantly wet with jizz. 

To the girl who said that she'll get concerned when she sees tanks rolling down her street:  By the time you reach that point you may as well not get concerned because by then it's too late.  As far as having relatives at the mercy of the Nazis:  Did they have the same apathetic "I'll get concerned about this when my ass gets dragged to a concentration camp" mentality that you have?  By the time you reach a concentration camp it's way too late to be worried.  You might as well enjoy the long haul. 

I too am against bloodshed.  I am against death and destruction.  I am against killing people for profiteering purposes and power which is behind every war.  There hasn't been a war fought yet that was fought purely for people's security and well being.  Under every war is a struggle for power and financial gain.  And it is that realization and the opposition to death and destruction that may well end up in Americans being put in these detention centers.  If you don't agree with Der Fuhrer Bush, you too could be labeled an "unlawful enemy combatant".  This is what people are concerned with.  By the time those of us who want to get off this roller coaster of insanity are hauled off to some secret location to be tortured by our own military, then it's too late to be concerned. 

I too get tired of the fear mongering being used by both sides.  That isn't to say that I'm not wary and don't watch my back.

To the girl who said that she'll get concerned when she sees tanks rolling down her street:  By the time you reach that point you may as well not get concerned because by then it's too late.  As far as having relatives at the mercy of the Nazis:  Did they have the same apathetic "I'll get concerned about this when my ass gets dragged to a concentration camp" mentality that you have?  By the time you reach a concentration camp it's way too late to be worried.  You might as well enjoy the long haul. 


"Fascism in America won

I've always been rather apolitical myself namely because I think politics is the biggest scam ever played on common people but with the selection of GW as President I rather thought that had bad tidings for my happy ass.  And it has.  This guy was my governer and he just loved to watch people get exeucted.  There wasn't a single execution that guy missed.  He would get a jizz in his pants every time he got to watch someone die.  Now instead of state sanctioned executions he gets to execute people on a global scale.  His pants are constantly wet with jizz. 

To the girl who said that she'll get concerned when she sees tanks rolling down her street:  By the time you reach that point you may as well not get concerned because by then it's too late.  As far as having relatives at the mercy of the Nazis:  Did they have the same apathetic "I'll get concerned about this when my ass gets dragged to a concentration camp" mentality that you have?  By the time you reach a concentration camp it's way too late to be worried.  You might as well enjoy the long haul. 

I too am against bloodshed.  I am against death and destruction.  I am against killing people for profiteering purposes and power which is behind every war.  There hasn't
been a war fought yet that was fought purely for people's security and well being.  Under every war is a struggle for power and financial gain.  And it is that realization and the opposition to death and destruction that may well end up in Americans being put in these detention centers.  If you don't agree with Der Fuhrer Bush, you too could be labeled an "unlawful enemy combatant".  This is what people are concerned with.  By the time those of us who want to get off this roller coaster of insanity are hauled off to some secret location to be tortured by our own military, then it's too late to be concerned. 

I too get tired of the fear mongering being used by both sides.  That isn't to say that I'm not wary and don't watch my back.


Karma point to you on your first post.  Hope to hear more from you!

I am increasingly concerned George W. Bush is a bona-fide psychopath.  The pleasure he took in ordering executions is quite alarming.  He boasted he executed more prisoners than any other governer in the history of the country, and that he never spent more than 20 minutes reviewing any of the cases.  I think he and his goon Gonzales took sadistical pleasure in it. 
"Of course they're guilty, let's give 'em what they deserve!" 
On national television Bush lampooned Karla Faye Tucker pleading for her life. 
And it's just as scary that 20 million Rush Limbaugh fans applauded, "That's our boy!" 

Sick country.

Book I recommend.  I haven't read it myself, but I plan to, I've heard several interviews with Dr. Justin Frank:
http://www.harpercollins.com/book/index.aspx?isbn=9780060736705

Karma point to you on your first post.  Hope to hear more from you!

I am increasingly concerned George W. Bush is a bona-fide psychopath.  The pleasure he took in ordering executions is quite alarming.  He boasted he executed more prisoners than any other governer in the history of the country, and that he never spent more than 20 minutes reviewing any of the cases.  I think he and his goon Gonzales took sadistical pleasure in it. 
"Of course they're guilty, let's give 'em what they deserve!" 
On national television Bush lampooned Karla Faye Tucker pleading for her life. 
And it's just as scary that 20 million Rush Limbaugh fans applauded, "That's our boy!" 

Sick country.

Book I recommend.  I haven't read it myself, but I plan to, I've heard several interviews with Dr. Justin Frank:
http://www.harpercollins.com/book/index.aspx?isbn=9780060736705


I remember when Karla Faye Tucker was about to be executed he was being interviewed and he was asked about giving her a stay of execution because she had reformed in prison and become a devout Christian, and in his response he mocked her saying "I don't wanna die!". It was extremely disturbing.

I remember when Karla Faye Tucker was about to be executed he was being interviewed and he was asked about giving her a stay of execution because she had reformed in prison and become a devout Christian, and in his response he mocked her saying "I don't wanna die!". It was extremely disturbing.


When you are the governor of the second biggest state in the country, there are many things you must be able to take seriously.  Bush proved he couldn't. 

Now he is President. 
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/04/eek2.gif

Can you you imagine FDR or Eisenhower wisecracking like that?  See what I mean?  Even Reagan, who I believe was a sociopath, would have feigned it.  He would have said, "The responsiblity of deciding who is to live and who is to die is the most solemn duty I have as governor, It breaks my heart knowing I have to give permission to take a human life, but justice must be served."  You know, you'd expect at least some sanctimonious BS like that, not some kind of Ted Bundy sarcasm!

Bush and Rumsfeld.  It's like the school bully and the class clown running the country (which is which?)  Where does that leave Cheney? 

Cheney's the big scary kid who used to go to the special school.  Rumor has it he killed his little sister.  No one's really sure.  He sits alone in the cafeteria 'coz everybody's scared of him.  At recess, he eats bugs and stuff, which is kinda neat.  Sometimes he goes into one of his fits, then the special ed. guy has to restrain him while his shrink administers the meds!
:D

Even Reagan, who I believe was a sociopath, would have feigned it. 


Btw, whats the deal with Ron Reagan jr.? He seems like a pretty decent guy. Do you know much about him(all I know him from was his now defunct show on MSNBC)?

Btw, whats the deal with Ron Reagan jr.? He seems like a pretty decent guy. Do you know much about him(all I know him from was his now defunct show on MSNBC)?

Ron Reagan is also gay.  I think that helps give him a different perspective.  Some men have fathers they wish to emulate in every way.  Some men have fathers who serve as anti-role models.  I'm the latter.  Perhaps Ron Reagan, Jr., is too.

It's Ronnie and Nancy's adopted son, Michael, who's a really nasty piece of work. He's one of the Limbaugh spin-offs of talk radio, like Hannity, Ollie North, G. Gordon Liddy, and Michael Savage.
::)

Ron Reagan is also gay.  I think that helps give him a different perspective.  Some men have fathers they wish to emulate in every way.  Some men have fathers who serve as anti-role models.  I'm the latter.  Perhaps Ron Reagan, Jr., is too.


I'm part of that club, buster.

I'm part of that club, buster.

What club?

What club?


Father being an anti-role model.

Father being an anti-role model.

Yeah, me too.

Today he signed it.  The evil S.O.B. 

I saw a bit of his interview with Bill O'Reilly (I mean, it's not like he's gonna talk to anybody but FOX News after he signed away our Constitutional rights).  Bush talked just like a drunk person trying to sound sober.  That might have been the case.

Today he signed it. 


On the upside, at least for the Democrats, this'll make it easier for them to retain power when they take it in 2008.

On the upside, at least for the Democrats, this'll make it easier for them to retain power when they take it in 2008.

From what I can see we are living in a one party dictatorship with the media controlled by the government.  In the pro-wrestling grudge matches, the arch enemies arrive at the stadium in the same limo.  Same with Dubya and Hillary.  The Dems seem to have morphed into a party that works for the corporate far-right, while the Republicans work for the corporate ultra-right!

I won't vote for Hillary.  I tried to like her for thirteen years and the b*tch made it impossible for me to do!  What's the point in voting Dem anyway?  When the Repugs steal the elections from them they act like the girl who means yes when she says no!  Two years into the ill-gotten Dubya regime, a bearded Al Gore was bellowing, "....he betrayed his country!!!"  Well so did you, Al, when you hired a team of lawyers so incompetent they couldn't stop the crime of the century, which was committed in broad daylight while everybody watched!
::)