http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14897315/

Can anyone explain why there isn't more of an uproar about this?  Isn't it against everything America stands for?  Now, I certainly don't think suspected terrorists should be given a feather pillow and a chocolate, but extradite them to other countries so they can be tortured?  Why not just torture them in the U.S. if that's the acceptable thing to do?  Is anyone else as mystified as I am?

Our government is insane.  It's that simple.  They are also war criminals.  The U.S. is forbidden to use torture under any circumstances per the Geneva Conventions.  We are a signatory nation.  The justice department illicitly gave permission to Bush to override the anti-torture provisions in the Geneva Conventions.  That does not make torture legal.  That makes Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld war criminals.  This administration's reigning philosophy is, "It's legal if we say it is no matter what some dumb old piece of paper says to the contrary."

The American people witlessly provoked the current crisis.  We allowed a secretive intelligence apparatus to evolve after WWII.  We did not find it necessary to shut down the "School of the Americas" at Ft. Benning.  We did not prosecute Lyndon Johnson for war crimes after the Gulf of Tonkin.  Consequently, Nixon and Kissinger took even more liberties.  We did not prosecute those two freaks for war crimes.  We did not even prosecute Ronald Reagan, Ollie North, and all that bloody crew for war crimes when they flaunted Iran-Contra right in our faces!
And now...consequently...we have an Executive Branch with the ethics of Colonel Kurtz and the competence of Daffy Duck, and they're coming right out and saying, "We will not obey the law because we are the law!"  George W. Bush stated several times prior to and into his ill-gotten presidency that he wanted a dictatorship and he wanted to be the dictator.  The statement seemed so absurd, we assumed it was a jest.  It had to be a jest!  It wasn't.  This is what Cheney and Rumsfeld have wanted since the Nixon Administration--an imperial presidency.

It wasn't some human rights hippies that told the administration torture does not work.  It was the intelligence specialists in the military brass.  The Bushies are not authorizing torture because they think it works.  They are authorizing torture because they want to torture people.  The Bushies are terrorists.  Everything they do is about brandishing extralegal power, raising the spectre of death, and instilling fear in their opposition both abroad and on native soil.

If we want our democracy back, we will have to force the Bush Administration from power, and then dismantle both the military industrial complex and the mercenary intelligence superstructure that allowed this horror show to seize the government in the first place.

I don't believe any of this is going to happen because I don't think we in this country have the cajones!

Oh, foo. I don't want to get rid of him. I want his regime to fall apart. It would be more appealing to watch him crumble.

And please don't make inferences about how people are raised.

[quote author=

Our current executive branch took power in a bloodless coup.

Funny you should mention that. The administration is b*tching about the bloodless coup that happened in Thailand.

That is all.

Funny you should mention that. The administration is b*tching about the bloodless coup that happened in Thailand.

That is all.

Ahem, do as we say, and not as we do.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/14/nono.gif

Death is Dubya's business.  It wouldn't upset me terribly if he got a taste of his own wares.  His policies continue to cause incalculable human suffering.  I do not advocate anybody taking the law into his own hands (like Dubya does).


I guess I'll be different and show some human compassion.....something he hasn't done.  I won't stoop to his level and wish he'd die.  Besides, posts like that aren't allowed here.

[quote author=

Can anyone explain why there isn't more of an uproar about this?


More people voted in American Idol than in the 2004 Presidential elections. 


  Isn't it against everything America stands for?


Maybe, it's posOOH! SHINY THING!

That is the more spiritually enlightened way to look at it.  I heard an interview yesterday with Bishop Desmond Tutu.  He is a truly Christian man.  He forgave the people who tortured him and murdered his loved ones!  Can you imagine how hard that must have been?  So I think he'd agree with you.

You probably know he Desmond Tutu is, but just in case...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Tutu



Yes, I know who he is, and thank you for posting that link.  I love reading stuff on Wikipedia. 

[quote author=

Obviously I missed some interesting posts yesterday...  :(

I still can't believe the lack of American outrage at this policy.  I don't know why I'm surprised - Foo Bar, you bring up an excellent point about more Americans voting for American Idol than in the elections.  I've always been so angry at Americans for supporting this administration, but at the end of the day, it isn't support, it's apathy.  Too many people just don't care what goes on in our government, a fact that the GOP is blatantly exploiting.  "Who cares if we're torturing a few Arabs?  They probably deserve it.  And even if they're innocent, they're still Muslims, and all Muslims want to destroy America, so it's totally ok."  The end will always justify the means, right? 

And I must add that Maxwell, I just love your posts.  They never fail to teach me something new, or to make me think of things in a new and enlightening way. 

Obviously I missed some interesting posts yesterday...  :(

I still can't believe the lack of American outrage at this policy.  I don't know why I'm surprised - Foo Bar, you bring up an excellent point about more Americans voting for American Idol than in the elections.  I've always been so angry at Americans for supporting this administration, but at the end of the day, it isn't support, it's apathy.  Too many people just don't care what goes on in our government, a fact that the GOP is blatantly exploiting.  "Who cares if we're torturing a few Arabs?  They probably deserve it.  And even if they're innocent, they're still Muslims, and all Muslims want to destroy America, so it's totally ok."  The end will always justify the means, right? 

And I must add that Maxwell, I just love your posts.  They never fail to teach me something new, or to make me think of things in a new and enlightening way. 

Thanks, Ash.  Other people just say I gotta big mouth!
;)
What you say about Moslems (Muslims) is true.  Racism doesn't just come out of nowhere.  Hitler gave Christian Germans every reason he could muster to hate their Jewish brothers and sisters.  More Christian Germans than we would like to think saluted Hitler out of loyalty, not out of fear.  Germany was not the prosperous nation it is today.  In the 1933, the country was still devastated from the losses of WWI, and the devastating sanctions that followed.  Germans were frightened, nervous, and angry.  That frame of mind makes a person vulnerable to both bigotry and hero worship.  Hitler gave them both.  They got strong leaders in the Nazi party and a scapegoat in the Jews. 

Today the United States is a crumbling nation.  We are poorer and less secure than at any time in the last sixty years--more than two generations.  Unlike post-WWI Germany, it was not war, but our own economic policies that destroyed us.  The people had a piece of the pie called the "middle class."  We believed in Ronald Reagan and something called "supply side economics."  All that happened when we let our government implement "supply side economics" was the rich ate our piece of pie!

So the ruling class needs a bogeyman to keep us distracted.  The Moslems are a perfect bogeyman. When Bush says "terrorists" everybody pictures Moslems.  What did Islam ever do to me?  Islam is oppressive in other parts of the world, but when I look at the oppressive forces in America, none of them stem from Islam.  As some African-Americans were saying, "Iraq never called me n*gg*r!"

I still can't believe the lack of American outrage at this policy.  I don't know why I'm surprised - Foo Bar, you bring up an excellent point about more Americans voting for American Idol than in the elections.
I have an idea for getting out the vote.  An "American Idol" referendum.  During the campaign, candidates will sing their favorite pop songs, and then on Election Day, you can vote your preference!
:D

I have an idea for getting out the vote.  An "American Idol" referendum.  During the campaign, candidates will sing their favorite pop songs, and then on Election Day, you can vote your preference! :D


Welcome to the Dark Side, Maxwell! 

Or which network did you think such a show might  actually air?

(I don't follow reality TV and don't recall it ever airing, but according to IMDB, it did indeed air on Showtime, which was (I believe) a Viacom channel at the time.)

Yesterday I came out of the supermarket and there was a car in the parking lot that had a big sign taped to the back window.  It said something like this:  "We will not stop terrorism with torture, violence and disrespect.  Hurting others won't relieve our grief.  Stop blindly following simple-minded politicians.  Speak up!!  We need to be a nation that sets a positive example.  Speak up and demand an end to torture!!"

I thought that was great.  At least the person who owned that car made an effort.  Anyway, I'm thinking about what I can do from here.  Everyone should take action in some way.  This thread could be a good place for suggestions.

Thanks, Ash.  Other people just say I gotta big mouth!
;)
What you say about Moslems (Muslims) is true.  Racism doesn't just come out of nowhere.  Hitler gave Christian Germans every reason he could muster to hate their Jewish brothers and sisters.  More Christian Germans than we would like to think saluted Hitler out of loyalty, not out of fear.  Germany was not the prosperous nation it is today.  In the 1933, the country was still devastated from the losses of WWI, and the devastating sanctions that followed.  Germans were frightened, nervous, and angry.  That frame of mind makes a person vulnerable to both bigotry and hero worship.  Hitler gave them both.  They got strong leaders in the Nazi party and a scapegoat in the Jews. 

Today the United States is a crumbling nation.  We are poorer and less secure than at any time in the last sixty years--more than two generations.  Unlike post-WWI Germany, it was not war, but our own economic policies that destroyed us.  The people had a piece of the pie called the "middle class."  We believed in Ronald Reagan and something called "supply side economics."  All that happened when we let our government implement "supply side economics" was the rich ate our piece of pie!

So the ruling class needs a bogeyman to keep us distracted.  The Moslems are a perfect bogeyman. When Bush says "terrorists" everybody pictures Moslems.  What did Islam ever do to me?  Islam is oppressive in other parts of the world, but when I look at the oppressive forces in America, none of them stem from Islam.  As some African-Americans were saying, "Iraq never called me n*gg*r!"
I have an idea for getting out the vote.  An "American Idol" referendum.  During the campaign, candidates will sing their favorite pop songs, and then on Election Day, you can vote your preference!
:D


I'm entirely convinced that the Jewish people are being used as a toy in the Middle East. By distracting the majority of world Jewry into becoming so focused on Israel, alot of us have become a mindless army to "the defense of Israel", which is basically a pawn buffer state for the imperialist forces of the West, not the Jewish state it was meant to be. Its policies show this...any true "Jewish state" would not be as gratuitously violent and warlike, with the history of the Jews in mind. The imperialists manipulated Jews who needed a homeland after the Holocaust as a kind of an "apology", without most Jews realizing the motive behind Britain giving them Palestine. I would more like an "apology" from the Western powers-that-be (particularly the US) for not having accepted Holocaust refugees and for the US having curbed E. European Jewish immigration in 1920. The proportion of Jews immigrating only rose during WWI, and afterwards millions more might have come to the east coast and NOT died in the Holocaust. The only reason the imperialists care about the Holocaust is to use it as a tool to coerce world Jewry into supporting Israel and the ensuing conservatism.

I still say the U.S. LET the Holocaust happen in the magnitude that it did. Not all Americans, many of them tried, but anti-Semites like Henry Ford helped stop what could have saved millions of people. Most of the people who left were not like the 3 million Yiddish-speaking Polish Jews, but more middle-class German-speakers, Dutch-speakers, and French-speakers. And this isn't to say that Stalin had something to do with it too.

That is the more spiritually enlightened way to look at it.  I heard an interview yesterday with Bishop Desmond Tutu.  He is a truly Christian man.  He forgave the people who tortured him and murdered his loved ones!  Can you imagine how hard that must have been?  So I think he'd agree with you.

You probably know he Desmond Tutu is, but just in case...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Tutu


He must be a truly powerful spirit to be able to do that.

Yesterday I came out of the supermarket and there was a car in the parking lot that had a big sign taped to the back window.  It said something like this:  "We will not stop terrorism with torture, violence and disrespect.  Hurting others won't relieve our grief.  Stop blindly following simple-minded politicians.  Speak up!!  We need to be a nation that sets a positive example.  Speak up and demand an end to torture!!"

I thought that was great.  At least the person who owned that car made an effort.  Anyway, I'm thinking about what I can do from here.  Everyone should take action in some way.  This thread could be a good place for suggestions.


"May I see yer license and registration, son?  Wht are you doin' in these parts?  What are ya, one of them agitators?"  That's why I don't sport anti-establishment bumper stickers.  I don't want to give the cops another reason to pull me over and hassle me."  It's like these guys I see in my area who have a giant pot leafe decal in the back window, and a sticker captioned: "Bad Cop: No Donut."  Dumb citizen, speeding ticket!
:o

"May I see yer license and registration, son?  Wht are you doin' in these parts?  What are ya, one of them agitators?"  That's why I don't sport anti-establishment bumper stickers.  I don't want to give the cops another reason to pull me over and hassle me."  It's like these guys I see in my area who have a giant pot leafe decal in the back window, and a sticker captioned: "Bad Cop: No Donut."  Dumb citizen, speeding ticket!
:o


I feel the same way. As much as I love my long hair, I admit that it would probably be smartest not to have it. Lefty, anti-establishment stoners like myself don't really need to attract any unwanted attention. :D

I feel the same way. As much as I love my long hair, I admit that it would probably be smartest not to have it. Lefty, anti-establishment stoners like myself don't really need to attract any unwanted attention. :D

That's what I always say about wearing a crewcut.  The cop thinks he's talking to an ex-Marine, but I'm really a commie-pinko pig-hater!
;)

That's what I always say about wearing a crewcut.  The cop thinks he's talking to an ex-Marine, but I'm really a commie-pinko pig-hater!
;)


I happen to personally think long hair looks dirty and unappealing unless it goes up or it's really straight, on me, anyway. I had a mane of long hair in 2004, then shore it off one October totally, to the point of near-baldness. Unfortunately, it was the day before school picture day! I don't have curly enough hair for an afro and its not straight enough to look sleek.

I happen to personally think long hair looks dirty and unappealing unless it goes up or it's really straight, on me, anyway. I had a mane of long hair in 2004, then shore it off one October totally, to the point of near-baldness. Unfortunately, it was the day before school picture day! I don't have curly enough hair for an afro and its not straight enough to look sleek.

Oh, I started getting buzzcuts as a teenager to make a statement against my hippie parents and the burnouts/metalheads in school.  I've stuck with them ever since.  Prior to that I went through a couple of years of Goth/Punk dye/bleach jobs, big spikes, and at one point a Mohawk.  I liked the flat top style crewcut better because it was all purpose.  Did you ever see Otto Maddox (Emilio Estivez) as the anti-hero in "Repo Man"?

Oh, I started getting buzzcuts as a teenager to make a statement against my hippie parents and the burnouts/metalheads in school.  I've stuck with them ever since.  Prior to that I went through a couple of years of Goth/Punk dye/bleach jobs, big spikes, and at one point a Mohawk.  I liked the flat top style crewcut better because it was all purpose.  Did you ever see Otto Maddox (Emilio Estivez) as the anti-hero in "Repo Man"?


I've seen pictures. I refuse to dye my hair, since I think my hair is my best feature...it has nice natural highlights, it's not too curly and not too straight, not too oily and not too dry, and I have alot of it that looks good when cut nicely.

I happen to personally think long hair looks dirty and unappealing unless it goes up or it's really straight, on me, anyway. I had a mane of long hair in 2004, then shore it off one October totally, to the point of near-baldness. Unfortunately, it was the day before school picture day! I don't have curly enough hair for an afro and its not straight enough to look sleek.


My hair is near black, thick and straight as a board. I have "Asian hair". ;D

Its the Cherokee blood in me, I suppose.

My hair is near black, thick and straight as a board. I have "Asian hair". ;D

Its the Cherokee blood in me, I suppose.



The hair works for you.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/bobbymcgee/upclose4.jpg

'Tis me right here. See what I'm talking about?? It doesn't look that dark just because of the lighting. :D

[quote author=

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/bobbymcgee/upclose4.jpg

'Tis me right here. See what I'm talking about?? It doesn't look that dark just because of the lighting. :D

Thanks.  :)




It looks like you have 2 scrapes/cuts on either side of your nose in that picture.

[quote author=

I have psoriasis.



That would explain it, then.  I thought it might have been something with the picture, initially.