Just to start a topic I saw elsewhere.

How far will the right go to retain power?
If I may be so bold as to take a political point of view. In 2004 when the Gay issue was at hand. Every state that had it on the balled voted for Bush. But that's not my point.  In those states that  voted against it, a record number of elderly voted. Of those elderly 80% or higher in some states voted against it and voted for Bush. Why tis simple they where raised with different values. My aunt bless her heart voted in that election, she was 92. The last time she voted was in the 1980's for Ronny Reagan. Whom she thought was a handsome man. She had always liked him. The reason she voted this time was to vote against the gay issue. Be cause of the overwhelming numbers of elderly that voted in most of those states, the right won many local, senatorial and congressional places.  In some ways this was a landslide win for the right. In many places where they have not won in years.  Now the ironic fact in all this is while the right gets more power. All the while getting the votes against gays. It is already a third of the way to being a ratified  amendment.  I to be honest had forgoten that if enough states vote against it. It is a automatic amendment. Now why in this great country of ours, we can enough states to vote against the gay issue. But we can not get enough to vote for equal rights for all. It failed in it's attempt.. Just another way for the right to stay strong.
Now there is a idea to get this onto another 25 states if it passes then forget it. For how many more seats in the Senate and congress does the right need?
How many more cities,  towns and states for their own government will be on the right when this is all said and done?
Just a thought.

How far?  What do you mean "how far?"  The question implies there is a maximum distance or a limit!
::)

How far?  What do you mean "how far?"  The question implies there is a maximum distance or a limit!
::)

Well I figure if 50 states count as 50 governors, those states have capitols that counts as 50 mayors. I know some city's have managers instead of mayors.  So I am just guessing when all is said and done we could be looking at a major major shift to the right in all the country. When will it end, who knows? But there is a limit somewhere isn't there? I mean I can hope can't I

Well I figure if 50 states count as 50 governors, those states have capitols that counts as 50 mayors. I know some city's have managers instead of mayors.  So I am just guessing when all is said and done we could be looking at a major major shift to the right in all the country. When will it end, who knows? But there is a limit somewhere isn't there? I mean I can hope can't I

There was a limt for Mussolini and Ceaucescu as well.  I'm thinking that sort of limit.  Not a limit whereby the state recognizes the will of the people, but whereby the people must impose their will on the state.

I think they will fall if History tells us anything. Look at the Roman Empire or Nazi Germany or any other repessive regime. My only hope is that we are still here when they do fall. I do have hope. I am starting to see some cracks so I think the fall is beginning.




Cat

I think they will fall if History tells us anything. Look at the Roman Empire or Nazi Germany or any other repessive regime. My only hope is that we are still here when they do fall. I do have hope. I am starting to see some cracks so I think the fall is beginning.




Cat

This week Bush sounded as crazy Caligula and as senile as King Lear.  The man has not got both oars in the water.  They have already fallen, they're just holding themselves in place by brute force.

Exactly what has gotten better since this Administration took its ill-gotten office?
>:(

The pendulum usually swings just a bit too far in one direction and then.....it swings back the other way.  The political Right in this country will not continue to rule. 

Anyway....no need to panic.  In 2004 here's where the power stood in state legislatures:  Dems-19; Reps-20; Split-10; 1 non partisan.  Not exactly a landslide in any direction.  ::)

The pendulum usually swings just a bit too far in one direction and then.....it swings back the other way.  The political Right in this country will not continue to rule. 

Anyway....no need to panic.  In 2004 here's where the power stood in state legislatures:  Dems-19; Reps-20; Split-10; 1 non partisan.  Not exactly a landslide in any direction.  ::)

The Repugs didn't let the pendulum swing in the past three cycles, and they're sure gonna try to stop it again!

The Repugs didn't let the pendulum swing in the past three cycles, and they're sure gonna try to stop it again!


Well, of course they'll try.  But for the number of people everywhere who are complaining about current affairs, they sure shouldn't succeed. 

The pendulum usually swings just a bit too far in one direction and then.....it swings back the other way.  The political Right in this country will not continue to rule. 

Anyway....no need to panic.  In 2004 here's where the power stood in state legislatures:  Dem's-19; Reps-20; Split-10; 1 non partisan.  Not exactly a landslide in any direction.  ::)

Your all forgeting the one thing that will help them in the next presidential election. The gay issue. You talk how they are spit. But here in NH for the local elections the Re pugs picked up a bunch of seats in our local  state assembly. That is also what I am talking about in all the states that had the gay issue the re pugs won a ton of seats in the local area. That what I am a little scared of.  And now it they get it their way they are gonna have 25 states with the gay issue in the next Presidential election. So far they have 14 states for the next one. But they are hoping to get it to 25... I wish there was a way to stop it from getting on all those state election tickets. Other wise we will set another record for the elderly voting again...

I don't mean it to give insult to the elderly but 80& and higher voted for the re-bugs in the states in question..

Your all forgeting the one thing that will help them in the next presidential election. The gay issue. You talk how they are spit. But here in NH for the local elections the Re pugs picked up a bunch of seats in our local  state assembly. That is also what I am talking about in all the states that had the gay issue the re pugs won a ton of seats in the local area. That what I am a little scared of.  And now it they get it their way they are gonna have 25 states with the gay issue in the next Presidential election. So far they have 14 states for the next one. But they are hoping to get it to 25... I wish there was a way to stop it from getting on all those state election tickets. Other wise we will set another record for the elderly voting again...

I don't mean it to give insult to the elderly but 80& and higher voted for the re-bugs in the states in question..


Well...you don't have tell me about New Hampshire.  I lved there a total of half my life.  I still have family living in Wolfeboro on the east side of Like Winnipesaukee.  Talk about Repug country.  The last time I went up there the farther north of Manchester I got, the less I felt like I belonged there!  If I had a nickle for every Bush/Cheney lawn sign!  My dad is an irritable old liberal, but he's retired, and just sits his azz in his La-Z-Boy chair and grumbles about stuff all day!  Nobody pays any attention to him!  My sister and my niece just drove up for a visit.  His grandchildren give him something to smile about.  I didn't find much to smile about when I lived in Wolfeboro!
:(
Any, much to my surprise and much to the chagrin of the Manchester Loony-Reader, NH went blue in 2004, not red.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/countymap.png

But look at the county-by-county map, see that northerly red splotch on the coast of Maine?  Well, that's Carroll county!
I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts, they're gonna fight like hell to make southerly counties red again!

In 2004 when the Gay issue was at hand. Every state that had it on the balled voted for Bush.

Hang on, that's not true, is it? If I remember correctly, they had a referendum on same-sex marriage in Oregon as part of the 2004 elections, and they voted against it. But the state voted for Kerry in 2004. And there might have been other states where that happened as well.

Hang on, that's not true, is it? If I remember correctly, they had a referendum on same-sex marriage in Oregon as part of the 2004 elections, and they voted against it. But the state voted for Kerry in 2004. And there might have been other states where that happened as well.

your right about Oregon my bad, but in the local election the for the state house it is 25 dems to 35 repugs the repugs picked up a 10 seat lead now. And in the state senate the repugs picked up 3 to make it a tie now15 to 15.
Plus for mayors now the balance has shifted there as well...
So I would think the repugs would call it a victory.  In other states the shift is far worse on the local level.

I think they will fall if History tells us anything. Look at the Roman Empire or Nazi Germany or any other repessive regime. My only hope is that we are still here when they do fall. I do have hope. I am starting to see some cracks so I think the fall is beginning.
Cat


  The US will probably collapse as the USSR did for similar reasons.  We have evolved from a fair approximation of laissez faire capitalism to a government controlled economy...

  The zeal to avoid some unfair practices by big business has saddled us with a too powerful government.  No matter who wins elections, there is a pay to play system requiring business to pay off politicians.  The massive bureaucracy at almost every level of government is growing beyond control go ;)...

   The US will probably collapse as the USSR did for similar reasons.  We have evolved from a fair approximation of laissez faire capitalism to a government controlled economy...

   The zeal to avoid some unfair practices by big business has saddled us with a too powerful government.  No matter who wins elections, there is a pay to play system requiring business to pay off politicians.  The massive bureaucracy at almost every level of government is growing beyond control go ;)...


I don't know about collapsing. I think half the world may nuke us first :P but otherwise your right. If you look at the Feds overall they are taking away more and more the states rights. And the bad thing is we are letting them.
hey maybe we should just put all the politicians on a island and see how long they last there. Elect new ones with the threat of being put on that island if they screw up...Naw too good to be true. Never happen.:P

   The US will probably collapse as the USSR did for similar reasons.  We have evolved from a fair approximation of laissez faire capitalism to a government controlled economy...

   The zeal to avoid some unfair practices by big business has saddled us with a too powerful government.  No matter who wins elections, there is a pay to play system requiring business to pay off politicians.  The massive bureaucracy at almost every level of government is growing beyond control go ;)...


I know it sounds so contrary, but a government that bankrupts itself doing special favors for a privileged few and leaves natural disaster victims stranded in tin cans and hovels has a tooootally Soviet ring to it!

i dont know if anybody needs to nuke us. i read all china has to do is call in US debt to it.

anyway, how far would the conservatives go? would they use the supreme court to manipulate their man into the white house, or exploit the most tragic event in american history to invade a country that had nothing to do with it, in the process killing tens of thousands of innocent people? i'm pretty sure they wouldn't go THAT far.

i tell ya, my sense that the conservatives were spinning out of control goes back to that impeachment silliness in 98. and then the 2000 election, particularly because it happened here, REALLY freaked me out. i went to a few of the protests in front of the supreme court and the hatred between right and left in the streets was palpable, like a screaming war.

i dont know if anybody needs to nuke us. i read all china has to do is call in US debt to it.

anyway, how far would the conservatives go? would they use the supreme court to manipulate their man into the white house, or exploit the most tragic event in american history to invade a country that had nothing to do with it, in the process killing tens of thousands of innocent people? i'm pretty sure they wouldn't go THAT far.

i tell ya, my sense that the conservatives were spinning out of control goes back to that impeachment silliness in 98. and then the 2000 election, particularly because it happened here, REALLY freaked me out. i went to a few of the protests in front of the supreme court and the hatred between right and left in the streets was palpable, like a screaming war.

Indeed.  It is not "how far will they go?," rather "how far have they gone?"  The fascist coup has already succeeded.  It's just a lot more stealthy and sophisticated than your grandfather's fascism.  Karl Rove's fascism and Mussolinis fascism is the difference between a stick-up man and a con artist.  You know exactly what's happening when the thug holds the blade to your throat and takes your wallet.  What Rove does is more like the real estate grift.  You might not know you've been had for weeks after a friendly transaction with that nice salesman!

One of the most chilling moments among a hundred chilling moments in the months following the 2000 election theft (which nobody disputes any longer) is that ditto-head mob outside the VP mansion screaming at the Gores: "Get out of Cheney's house! Get out of Cheney's house! Get out of Cheney's house! Get out of Cheney's house! Get out of Cheney's house...."
I thought Mr. Cheney, or at least one of his reps," would rush over and address the crowd.  When he got the crowd quieted, he would say, "Your behavior is disgraceful.  I want all of you people to go home immediately!"  Then the police would peacefully disperse the crowd.
Didn't happen.
I thought "Uh-oh! This is bad.  This is very bad!"  The Newt Deal was complete.  Politeness and civility were out.  Fascist hatred was in.  It's been the same ever since.
What those poor bleating sheep did not realize that January evening was the joke was on them!!!!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/04/elefant.gif

If you ask me, both parties are a bunch of losers. Republican = good, Democrat = bad. Switch the parties, and it'll be next year's mantra. The same damn thing, over and over again 'til Kingdom Come. The fact that people on either side of the aisle buy into that labelling crap is what I find most distasteful. It's no wonder I'm a registered Independent. Isn't politics fun?  :P

I haven't always been a cynic, but you caught me on a bad night.  :-[

What those poor bleating sheep did not realize that January evening was the joke was on them!!!!


So true.  I just hope I live long enough to see Maxwell join me behind the barbed wire of the freedom camps (it's there to keep the terrorists out, not to keep us in, honest!) when the Jackass wing of the Party gets its turn to run the show.

(My only regret is that if a Jackass wins, I'll be behind the barbed wire as a prisoner instead of a guard.  Oh well, ya dance with the one that brung ya.  America's over either way.  Too bad.  In a free country, I'd have loved to have run against him for public office.)