I was surprised and disturbed to hear on the news yesterday morning that 17 young men and teens were arrested in southern Ontario after allegedly acquiring 3 tonnes of ammonium nitrate. Details are still sketchy at this point, but it appears that they were "inspired by al-Qaeda" and were planning to attack various unspecified targets in or around Toronto. The Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, by the way, was caused by only 1 ton of ammonium nitrate, so the amount of explosives that they ordered could have caused very serious harm if it had been put to use. Of course, it's worth bearing in mind that all those accused are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law; though at the same time, the police sounded pretty confident in their statements when they announced the arrests.

It's a story I'll be watching with some interest as more details of the incident are revealed.

Oh here we go with blantant discrimination and stereotyping by those canucks.

If a Moslem who just happens to like Osama goes out and buys several tons of ammonium nitrate, they automatically assume that he is a terrorist. 

Hey, you guys, what'd Toronto ever do to you, huh?
:P

When I first saw this on the news, all they were saying was Southern Ontario, which scared me greatly becuase I am in South Eastern Ontario  :o

When I first saw this on the news, all they were saying was Southern Ontario, which scared me greatly becuase I am in South Eastern Ontario  :o

Wot? Near Ottawa?

I think it's funny when people speak of being from "Northern Ontario," they're not really speaking of the north North, since there's practically nothing north of the Timmins/Cochrane area.
;D

Wot? Near Ottawa?

I think it's funny when people speak of being from "Northern Ontario," they're not really speaking of the north North, since there's practically nothing north of the Timmins/Cochrane area.
;D


Ummmm.... Being originally from Thunder Bay, I beg to differ.  ::)

Good thing it was foiled!  :o

Wot? Near Ottawa?

I think it's funny when people speak of being from "Northern Ontario," they're not really speaking of the north North, since there's practically nothing north of the Timmins/Cochrane area.
;D


Nothing north of Cochrane?  I beg to differ Max.

Back when I was a young laddie my crew canoed from Hawk Junction, up the Missinaibi and Moose River systems, to Moose Factory.  On the way back we took the Polar Bear Express train SOUTH to Cochrane (where I spent the night sleeping on a dumpster).  :P

Plenty of stuff goin' on north of Cochrane!  :)

Nothing north of Cochrane?  I beg to differ Max.

Back when I was a young laddie my crew canoed from Hawk Junction, up the Missinaibi and Moose River systems, to Moose Factory.  On the way back we took the Polar Bear Express train SOUTH to Cochrane (where I spent the night sleeping on a dumpster).  :P

Plenty of stuff goin' on north of Cochrane!  :)


OK, nothing was hyperbole. I meant the population and civil infrastructure thins out pretty quickly heading north by north west. And last time I checked the city of Thunder Bay was on coast of Lake Superior. I mean, the windy shores of Lake Superior get about as cold and snowy as most people can stand!

Indo-Europeans have managed in far-northern regions for centuries, but never learned to deal with boreal climates as well as the indigenous peoples.

Anyway, this thread refers to terrorists, not Eskimoes...

Wot? Near Ottawa?

I think it's funny when people speak of being from "Northern Ontario," they're not really speaking of the north North, since there's practically nothing north of the Timmins/Cochrane area.
;D

Hey don't speak badly of my place of birth.
Moose Factory is the home town of Johnathon Cheechoo the great young native hockey player.
But yeah other than some hydro dams, great canoing, fishing and hunting there's not much up there

Scary as it is Ammonium Nitrate is so easy to find in farming country.
We have ship loads of it come in every fall here and it sits in warehouses, barns etc all over the countryside.

Hmmm and farmers have easy access to diesel fuel and all winter to plot.....

MOOSE FACTORY

http://www.lantz.ca/imagesMoosoneeBuildings/640mr_skyranchCRW_4563.jpg

MOOSE FACTORY

http://www.lantz.ca/imagesMoosoneeBuildings/640mr_skyranchCRW_4563.jpg


I imagine the town has run down a bit after the D.E.W. radar domes were shut down.  :-\\

And the market for manufactured mooses is not what it used to be.  ;)

Could we stay on topic, please? I started this thread to discuss the specific alleged terrorist plot outlined in my post above.

Some new information about it has trickled out...

There are indications that the arrests may have been a sting operation. The police may have delivered the ammonium nitrate (or presumably a less dangerous substance resembling it) to the suspects, and then arrested them afterward. I do have to wonder, though, what damn fool would order three tonnes of potential explosives? Talk about sending up a red flag...

The oldest of the suspects (I believe he's 40 or thereabouts) was allegedly part of a plan to storm Parliament and hold its members hostage, after which he would demand that Canadian troops be withdrawn from Afghanistan and that Muslim prisoners in both Canada and Afghanistan be released. If his demands were not met - so the allegations go - he would have beheaded the politicians, including the Prime Minister, and blown up the Parliament building. I also heard something about a plan to bomb the offices of the CBC in Toronto.

I haven't read up on much - I've mostly just been catching snippets on the television throughout the day. I don't really know what to think about this case until more facts come out into the open anyway. It's obviously of great interest to many in Canada, but in this age of media hype and terrorism-related paranoia it's important to keep some balance until more facts are known. I'm not saying I'm outright skeptical - on the contrary, I doubt that an operation of this size and length (the suspects have been monitored by the RCMP and CSIS for the better part of two years) would have been concluded so suddenly and announced so confidently if something wasn't up - but it's still worth noting that we don't know much about the nature of the investigation. I will be very interested to see how it all pans out though.

Could we stay on topic, please? I started this thread to discuss the specific alleged terrorist plot outlined in my post above.

Some new information about it has trickled out...

There are indications that the arrests may have been a sting operation. The police may have delivered the ammonium nitrate (or presumably a less dangerous substance resembling it) to the suspects, and then arrested them afterward. I do have to wonder, though, what damn fool would order three tonnes of potential explosives? Talk about sending up a red flag...

The oldest of the suspects (I believe he's 40 or thereabouts) was allegedly part of a plan to storm Parliament and hold its members hostage, after which he would demand that Canadian troops be withdrawn from Afghanistan and that Muslim prisoners in both Canada and Afghanistan be released. If his demands were not met - so the allegations go - he would have beheaded the politicians, including the Prime Minister, and blown up the Parliament building. I also heard something about a plan to bomb the offices of the CBC in Toronto.

I haven't read up on much - I've mostly just been catching snippets on the television throughout the day, actually - but I don't really know what to think about this case until more facts come out into the open anyway. It's obviously of great interest to many in Canada, but in this age of media hype and terrorism-related paranoia it's important to keep some balance until more facts are known. I'm not saying I'm outright skeptical - on the contrary, I doubt that an operation of this size and length (the suspects have been monitored by the RCMP and CSIS for the better part of two years) would have been concluded so suddenly and announced so confidently if something wasn't up - but it's still worth noting that we don't know much about the nature of the investigation. I will be very interested to see how it all pans out though.

My radar picked up the term "beheading," but I wasn't sure I heard it right.
:D
Well, the point is they got caught before the could do harm. Do you think the CSIS could give our Homeland Security dept. some lessons. They don't seem to have the first clue!

  I always imagined 'planted' to mean something like Policeman dumps fertilizer on lawn, then yells "Hey, you with the fertilizer on your lawn! You're under arrest!" rather than Policeman sells suspect fertiziler to confirm that they intended to buy and then arrests them.

  The story is originally from the Toronto Star: other sources (all referring to the Toronto Star, ultimately) from google:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10663276/?GT1=8211
http://www.examiner.com/a-126878~St..._Arrests. html

  They all mention 'sting' but the Daily Times is the only one which derives 'planted' from 'sting'.  Guess it depends on the definition?

  Or in other words as the investigation goes on its becoming more likely an entrapment case.  Would like to know where these detonators originated from , thats the more serious case. 

  I think this is where this US angle comes in ...*shrugs*...

Some of the information I reported yesterday was a bit inaccurate, by the way - it turns out that the fellow that said he'd like to lop off Prime Minister Stephen Harper's head was not the oldest of the suspects, but a 25-year-old man named Steven Chand.

The alleged plot to storm the Parliament building, behead the Prime Minister, and then blow the place to smithereens seems a wee bit far-fetched to me. I can't imagine how they would have pulled it off had they had the opportunity to try it. But then what do I know? I've never attempted it personally. ;)

Some of the information I reported yesterday was a bit inaccurate, by the way - it turns out that the fellow that said he'd like to lop off Prime Minister Stephen Harper's head was not the oldest of the suspects, but a 25-year-old man named Steven Chand.

The alleged plot to storm the Parliament building, behead the Prime Minister, and then blow the place to smithereens seems a wee bit far-fetched to me. I can't imagine how they would have pulled it off had they had the opportunity to try it. But then what do I know? I've never attempted it personally. ;)

Could they have leveled the Parliament building? Could they have severed the heads of Harper and his cabinet? Doubt it. BUT...with enough ammonium nitrates and firearms, they could have made a hell of a mess in Ottawa and/or Toronto. They could have caused a lot death and destruction. So, I say, the Canadian intelligence forces should keep up the good work. If U.S. intelligence was on its toes in the summer of 2001...well, I think they were, and they were ignored, and when they couldn't be ignored, they were hushed.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/peepwall.gif

Could they have leveled the Parliament building? Could they have severed the heads of Harper and his cabinet? Doubt it. BUT...with enough ammonium nitrates and firearms, they could have made a hell of a mess in Ottawa and/or Toronto. They could have caused a lot death and destruction. So, I say, the Canadian intelligence forces should keep up the good work. If U.S. intelligence was on its toes in the summer of 2001...well, I think they were, and they were ignored, and when they couldn't be ignored, they were hushed.
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/peepwall.gif


You're right, of course. All threats need to be taken seriously.

Here's a news story that gives a lot more information for those who want to keep up on the latest info. It's called "Report: Canada terror plot included bombs" and begins with these words: "Jailed terror suspects accused of plotting attacks in Canada had been making plans to detonate truck bombs against the stock exchange and the country's spy agency, according to a news report citing court documents."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060608/ap_on_re_ca/canada_terrorism_arrests_1;_ylt=An4Dz47EXJVArbl_C.A4ArwTv5UB;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl