http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2006_04_18.html#011354


A few years ago, Disney released "Disney Treasures: On The Front Lines", which featured previously banned WWII cartoons like the Oscar winning "Der Fuhrer's Face", with an introduction  from histiorian Leonard Maltin.  Which sparked some rumors about "Song of the South" being released. Unfortunately, the new Disney CEO stated that it'll not be released.

Not a fan of the movie, nor ever saw it, but it shouldn't be locked away since it's still a part of history and should be looked in it's historical context.



Good thing the WWII cartoons were released since the cartoons featuring Donald Duck are among the best I've seen.

Similar Note: Five years ago Cartoon Network planned to air 12 "Un PC" Bugs Bunny cartoons on their now defunct June Bugs marathon during late night (BTW, this was pre 'Adult Swim'), but was nixed.


Out of the banned I've seen (including "All This & Rabbit Stew", banned since the '60's, though is public domain), I find "12 oz Mouse"  more offensive for it's horrible animation. (BTW, I tend to look past the stereotypes and most are no different than a typical Bugs cartoon where he's against Elmer Fudd and Yosemite Sam.)



http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,8217,00.html

http://www.childrens-express.org/dynamic/public/is_that_all_110601.htm

A few years ago, Disney released "Disney Treasures: On The Front Lines", which featured previously banned WWII cartoons like the Oscar winning "Der Fuhrer's Face", with an introduction  from histiorian Leonard Maltin.  Which sparked some rumors about "Song of the South" being released. Unfortunately, the new Disney CEO stated that it'll not be released.

Not a fan of the movie, nor ever saw it, but it shouldn't be locked away since it's still a part of history and should be looked in it's historical context.

Good thing the WWII cartoons were released since the cartoons featuring Donald Duck are among the best I've seen.


I think it is wrong to not release it, and have been protesting this for years.

Song Of The South was a landmark film, and did a lot to change the views of people, both in the nation and in Hollywood.

This is the first major movie in which the staring character was a black male.  And it was so well received that James Baskett won an Academy Award.  And one of the co-stars is Hattie McDaniel, the first black woman to win an Academy Award (for Gone With The Wind).

And contrary to popular belief, the movie was not set with the characters as slaves.  It was clearly stated that it was set in 1880's Georgia, well after the end of the Civil War.  And if anything, the scenes of both Hattie McDaniel and James Baskett talking back to the Grandmother who owns the plantation should dispell any thoughts that they were "subservient negroes".

Of course, I have heard people say thet it should not be released because of how Uncle Remus and other blacks talk in the movie.  Never mind that it was in a dialect that is still spoken in Georgia to this day.

It is Political Corectness run away, and is actually destroying a valuable part of black culture as it does so.  All of the folk-tales that were saved as "Uncle Remus Stories" were actually told by the slaves during captivity.  Many of them are from even older folk-stories told from their ancestors back in Africa.  Although they were all changed once they made it here.

One thing frequently missed is that the stories were all stories about slavery and their conditions.  Brer (Brother) Rabbit is the hero, and symbolizes the slaves in captivity.  Brer Fox represents the slave owners.  He is not as smart as he thinks he is, and is constantly caught in his own schemes.  Brer Bear is the overseer.  Slow and stupid, he symbolizes the "poor white trash" who lords over them and deals out punishment.  He is constantly taken advantage of by Brer Fox, and easily fooled by the smarter Brer Rabbit.

To me, this movie deserves to be seen.  Simply include a documentary with it, showing the history of both the stories themselves, and what they represent.  I am glad that I have a bootleg copy of it in my collection.  I watch it once a year or so, and absolutely love it.

I think it is wrong to not release it, and have been protesting this for years.


A most noble cause, if I may say so sir!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/06/jestor.gif

Oh, and the 1880s was just a dandy old time for African Americans!

Now see here, you can go on all you like about the folkloric heritage of "Song of the South," but I'm afraid the Uncle Remus character was a projection of how whites whished African American men would behave--jovial, child-like, content, asexual, and non-demanding.

I don't mean to imply anyone is racist simply for enjoying the stories Joel Chandler Harris collected, and from whence came the "Song of the South" film, they are jolly fun. However, to pretend Uncle Remus conferred no racism is to engage in cultural denial.

Oh, and let 'em release "Song of the South" on DVD. I'm a big First Amendment guy. You don't like it, don't buy it.

There's a DVD titled "Adventures of Brer Rabbit", which I know is a character of "Song of the South".

I might rent it, though the movie probably would be a PC version of  "Song of the South".

The stereotypes are nolonger acceptable today, but there's still stereotypes in movies, tv, etc. today like "The Sopranos" (Italian stereotypes) and the "Miss Swan" character (Asian stereotype played by a white woman) from Mad TV.



I agree that it should be released for fans and collecters.

Since I've never seen the movie, can't really say much other than that  I'm tired of   censorship.

There's a DVD titled "Adventures of Brer Rabbit", which I know is a character of "Song of the South".

I might rent it, though the movie probably would be a PC version of  "Song of the South".

The stereotypes are nolonger acceptable today, but there's still stereotypes in movies, tv, etc. today like "The Sopranos" (Italian stereotypes) and the "Miss Swan" character (Asian stereotype played by a white woman) from Mad TV.



I agree that it should be released for fans and collecters.

Since I've never seen the movie, can't really say much other than that  I'm tired of   censorship.






Good point. Popular media today is built on stereotypes far more negative than Uncle Remus. Let me correct that, Uncle Remus is an outdated stereotype. FiddyCent is a much more destructive stereotype of African-American men today. The difference is a lot of my liberal pals would call ME racist for criticizing gangsta rap!
::)

One thing frequently missed is that the stories were all stories about slavery and their conditions.  Brer (Brother) Rabbit is the hero, and symbolizes the slaves in captivity.  Brer Fox represents the slave owners.  He is not as smart as he thinks he is, and is constantly caught in his own schemes.  Brer Bear is the overseer.  Slow and stupid, he symbolizes the "poor white trash" who lords over them and deals out punishment.  He is constantly taken advantage of by Brer Fox, and easily fooled by the smarter Brer Rabbit.


... and what does the "tar baby" represent?

... and what does the "tar baby" represent?









An African-American baby. That's another disgusting epithet.

An African-American baby. That's another disgusting epithet.

You don't really think...nah, couldn't be!
:o

An African-American baby. That's another disgusting epithet.

Actually, it doesn't.  It's a reference to an African (not African-American) folk tale that came over during the slave era.  "Song of the South" saved many of these stories by putting them into white/mainstream American culture -- without that movie, the only people who would know many of these tales would be cultural anthropologists in obscure university departments.  Watch the movie -- even if you have to download it illegally to do so.  It's a good movie, the animation is fantastic for its age, and the messages are wonderful.

But on to the tale.

The "tar baby" is - literally - a glob of tar made up to look like a baby.  When you pick it up, it sticks to you.  The harder you try to shake it off, the more bits of tar get stuck to you in other places.  The more fingers/arms/feet/sticks/brushes you use to try to remove it, the more entrapped you become. 

(Likewise, Bre'r Rabbit saying "don't throw me into that briar patch" to Bre'r Bear -- when a rabbit can slink away easily under the briars, and a bear will only get a bunch of burrs stuck to his fur...)

I'll leave it up to you to determine which of the characters in "Song of the South" represent the dimwitted but powerful, and which of the characters in the movie are plain-spoken folks who just want to be left alone, and who survive by their wits.

If you're a Democrat, Iraq is very much Bush's tar baby.  If you're a Republican, Bill Clinton's sexual and legal hijinks were his tar baby.  And both of 'em got caught up in 'em because their opponents (in the form of various middle-east whackjobs, and in the form of Ken Starr, begged not to be thrown into the briar patch of political/military chaos and/or public impeachment proceedings.)

On a serious cross-cultural note:  The story of the man with the albatross around his neck is a pretty close Western equivalent to the Tar Baby story. 

On a funny note:  You'll never look at Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd the same way again.  You'll laugh harder.

^ As I said before, there is genuine folkloric value in the "Br'er Rabbit" tales, and thus in the "Song of the South." There is also racism. It is hard for any of us today to fathom the institutionalized racism in either the post-Reconstruction era, when Joel Chandler Harris was compiling the tales, or in the pre-Civil Rights era when "Song of the South" was made.

Oh, and the 1880s was just a dandy old time for African Americans!

Now see here, you can go on all you like about the folkloric heritage of "Song of the South," but I'm afraid the Uncle Remus character was a projection of how whites whished African American men would behave--jovial, child-like, content, asexual, and non-demanding.

I don't mean to imply anyone is racist simply for enjoying the stories Joel Chandler Harris collected, and from whence came the "Song of the South" film, they are jolly fun. However, to pretend Uncle Remus conferred no racism is to engage in cultural denial.



The stereotypes are nolonger acceptable today, but there's still stereotypes in movies, tv, etc. today like "The Sopranos" (Italian stereotypes) and the "Miss Swan" character (Asian stereotype played by a white woman) from Mad TV.


Oh yes, the modern Hollywood stereotypes of blacks is much more flattering then those old ones.

Instead of being religious and polite, they are now gun carrying thugs who smoke dope and use "biatch" "niga", and all other sorts of languate that is inappropriate.

I am so glad that the modern black rolemodel is so healthy.

Maxwell, have you seen the movie in the last 20 years?

Oh yes, the modern Hollywood stereotypes of blacks is much more flattering then those old ones.

Instead of being religious and polite, they are now gun carrying thugs who smoke dope and use "biatch" "niga", and all other sorts of languate that is inappropriate.

I am so glad that the modern black rolemodel is so healthy.

Maxwell, have you seen the movie in the last 20 years?

Feh, you've missed my point entirely. I don't think you even want to acknowledge it. It's as though you did not read my last three posts.

The "tar baby" is - literally - a glob of tar made up to look like a baby.  When you pick it up, it sticks to you.  The harder you try to shake it off, the more bits of tar get stuck to you in other places.  The more fingers/arms/feet/sticks/brushes you use to try to remove it, the more entrapped you become. 


SO... when the Ku Klux Klan refers to Black people as "Tar Babies" it means.... ?

SO... when the Ku Klux Klan refers to Black people as "Tar Babies" it means.... ?

I don't know. Harris, the one who first wrote down the "Brer Rabbit" tales claimed it was not. The tar baby and Br'er Rabbit were metaphors for how blacks under slavery had only their wits as weapons against whites.

If whites intend the term "tar baby" to be denigrating to blacks, denigrating it will become. The term "'coon" was once just a truncation of "racoon." Now we all know it can be one of the ugliest racial slurs.

Tony Snow did not think the term was racist. Toni Morrison did. Whose opinion on the subject do you think carries more weight? The rightwing blog Free Republic defended Snow's use of "Tar Baby" on the supposed intentions of the folklore. I don't think Snow intended at all to make a racial slur. However, I do not think it was a wise choice of words.

SO... when the Ku Klux Klan refers to Black people as "Tar Babies" it means.... ?

It means they're too stupid to even be good bigots.

(I can't take credit for that line.  I got it from the 1980s classic "Porky's", which was as good a trip to the 50s as "Back to the Future" ever was -- with the exception that some of its humor was deadly serious.)

The "tar baby" is - literally - a glob of tar made up to look like a baby.  When you pick it up, it sticks to you.  The harder you try to shake it off, the more bits of tar get stuck to you in other places.  The more fingers/arms/feet/sticks/brushes you use to try to remove it, the more entrapped you become. 





It means they're too stupid to even be good bigots.

(I can't take credit for that line.  I got it from the 1980s classic "Porky's", which was as good a trip to the 50s as "Back to the Future" ever was -- with the exception that some of its humor was deadly serious.)


SO... the way "Tar Babies" is NOW used in our lexicon :the "Negroes" are undesirables which are stuck to the Aryans no matter how much the latter try to do away with them.

Hey, that's great.... THANK YOU DISNEY!!!!

You don't really think...nah, couldn't be!
:o


Having been called one, yeah really.

Having been called one, yeah really.


this so-o-o-o-o t-o-o-o-o-tally sucks

SO... the way "Tar Babies" is NOW used in our lexicon :the "Negroes" are undesirables which are stuck to the Aryans no matter how much the latter try to do away with them.

Hey, that's great.... THANK YOU DISNEY!!!!

Huh?  Whose lexicon?  And when?  If you're bringing it up because of what a policitian said a few days ago - read the transcript and swap out "tar baby" for "Negro", and then try it again for "issue that's so complicated that I'll only get myself in trouble for talking about it".  One of these interpretations makes sense.  The other makes no sense - linguistically, never mind politically - at all.

People from Africa invented the story.  Invented the term.  Disney preserved the story, and did so faithfully.  A tar baby is bait.  A trap which relies on its victim's efforts to break free.  Much like this conversation -- the harder I try to explain to you that the term contains no racial overtones, and the more often you miss the point, the more often I post to this thread :)

The  only  people who use "tar baby" as a perjorative term for people whose skin color is more "brown" than "pink", are those who do so because they're too stupid to even be proficient at bigotry.  And the hypersensitive - who are just as ignorant of those whose interests they purport to defend.

Huh?  Whose lexicon?  And when?  If you're bringing it up because of what a policitian said a few days ago - read the transcript and swap out "tar baby" for "Negro", and then try it again for "issue that's so complicated that I'll only get myself in trouble for talking about it".  One of these interpretations makes sense.  The other makes no sense - linguistically, never mind politically - at all.

People from Africa invented the story.  Invented the term.  Disney preserved the story, and did so faithfully.  A tar baby is bait.  A trap which relies on its victim's efforts to break free.  Much like this conversation -- the harder I try to explain to you that the term contains no racial overtones, and the more often you miss the point, the more often I post to this thread :)

The  only  people who use "tar baby" as a perjorative term for people whose skin color is more "brown" than "pink", are those who do so because they're too stupid to even be proficient at bigotry.  And the hypersensitive - who are just as ignorant of those whose interests they purport to defend.

It may not be fair, but some develop racist connotations because enough racists use them for a long enough time. That's what I was saying about the truncation of racoon, "coon."
If you can remember the '70s, you might remember a fastfood chain called "Sambo's" To make a long story short, "Sambo" was a pejorative for African American males even before Helen Bannerman's book "Little Black Sambo" was published in 1898.*  No one is really sure where the term came from, and Bannerman was Scottish and lived in India. Her book's here was illustrated after the darker ethnicities of the Indian subcontinent. Like Joel Chandler Harris, we cannot say the author had any malice. In 19th century white people were genuinely racist. They were acculturated to believe other racist and ethnic groups were inferior to whites, and it was possible for them to do so with no hate in their hearts. But they were still racist. The restaurant chain "Sambo's" (and you can research this on the web) was started by two guys whose first names were Sam and Bob. "Sambo's" was catchier than "Sam & Bob's." However, they had to fight accusations of bigotry post Civil Rights era, a fight they finally lost in the late '70s. The chain was briefly called "Sam's" and then renamed something else altogether, I can't remember. It didn't matter that "Sambo's" had no history of illegal discrimination against African Americans as employees or customers, or even complaints against them as setting a hostile atmosphere to African Americans. So perhaps the grief they got because of the name wasn't quite fair, but sometimes guilt-by-association wins out.

*of note, in Harriet Beecher-Stowe's "Uncle Tom's Cabin" (1852), Simon Legree's two big thug's are named Quimbo and Sambo, but that's the only earlier reference I can think of.

Oh yes, the modern Hollywood stereotypes of blacks is much more flattering then those old ones.

Instead of being religious and polite, they are now gun carrying thugs who smoke dope and use "biatch" "niga", and all other sorts of languate that is inappropriate.

I am so glad that the modern black rolemodel is so healthy.

Maxwell, have you seen the movie in the last 20 years?


Have you?  This post you have offered oozes condescension, the air of a trussed up country parson.  Wasn't it better that "they" had role models on screen of the pious, polite, servant to show them how to act.  Much more comfortable for the caucasians, too, while they watch Bogie, and Cagney, after all for them it is entertainment, they already know how to act.  There is now at least a choice when looking at main stream media.  If all you saw in the old portrayals of African Americans, or minorities in general was religious and polite you weren't looking with open eyes. It's not a choice between Step n Fetchit or the depictions in "Birth of a Nation" anymore.  How heartwarming it must be for you to recollect the movie portrayal of the Pullman Porter, or the cook or the maid, being happy in what they were doing, saying thank you sir and yes ma'am. Let me tell you after seeing that, watching Samuel L Jackson with a pump action does my heart good.

Huh?  Whose lexicon?  And when?  If you're bringing it up because of what a policitian said a few days ago - read the transcript and swap out "tar baby" for "Negro", and then try it again for "issue that's so complicated that I'll only get myself in trouble for talking about it".  One of these interpretations makes sense.  The other makes no sense - linguistically, never mind politically - at all.

People from Africa invented the story.  Invented the term.  Disney preserved the story, and did so faithfully.  A tar baby is bait.  A trap which relies on its victim's efforts to break free.  Much like this conversation -- the harder I try to explain to you that the term contains no racial overtones, and the more often you miss the point, the more often I post to this thread :)

The  only  people who use "tar baby" as a perjorative term for people whose skin color is more "brown" than "pink", are those who do so because they're too stupid to even be proficient at bigotry.  And the hypersensitive - who are just as ignorant of those whose interests they purport to defend.


the lexicon to which I refer is the lexicon of Modern ameriKKKan society. The argument that "once upon a time a certain racial epithet wasn't perjorative, so get over it" is completely, totally, and utterly spurrious, and reeks of Aryan longing for the "good ol' days" of slavery and Jim Crow. For example,  once upon a time, the term "moron" was a scientific term to describe the mentally challenged. Would you now walk up to a present day college football linebacker and say " Hey, moron! What time is it?" What would the guy do to you?

the lexicon to which I refer is the lexicon of Modern ameriKKKan society. The argument that "once upon a time a certain racial epithet wasn't perjorative, so get over it" is completely, totally, and utterly spurrious, and reeks of

fond memories of squeezing in both Public Enemy's "(I don't wanna be called) Yo N*ahem*ga" and NWA's "NWA" in the same set, just to offend everybody!

the lexicon to which I refer is the lexicon of Modern ameriKKKan society. The argument that "once upon a time a certain racial epithet wasn't perjorative, so get over it" is completely, totally, and utterly spurrious, and reeks of Aryan longing for the "good ol' days" of slavery and Jim Crow. For example,  once upon a time, the term "moron" was a scientific term to describe the mentally challenged. Would you now walk up to a present day college football linebacker and say " Hey, moron! What time is it?" What would the guy do to you?

He'd say, "Duh, I think it's second quarter, third down."
::)
Contemporary pejoratives idiot, moron, imbecile, etc. were once designations of mental disabilities, but they were not used as froms of address any more than you would say, "Hey, mildly retarded person..." Of course, "Hey, retard..." was popular when I was growing up. Popular, but not nice!

Have you?  This post you have offered oozes condescension, the air of a trussed up country parson.  Wasn't it better that "they" had role models on screen of the pious, polite, servant to show them how to act.  Much more comfortable for the caucasians, too, while they watch Bogie, and Cagney, after all for them it is entertainment, they already know how to act.  There is now at least a choice when looking at main stream media.  If all you saw in the old portrayals of African Americans, or minorities in general was religious and polite you weren't looking with open eyes. It's not a choice between Step n Fetchit or the depictions in "Birth of a Nation" anymore.  How heartwarming it must be for you to recollect the movie portrayal of the Pullman Porter, or the cook or the maid, being happy in what they were doing, saying thank you sir and yes ma'am. Let me tell you after seeing that, watching Samuel L Jackson with a pump action does my heart good.

We're a lost cause, Danoota! We uppity northern liberals will never understand how much happier the negro was when he knew his place and the white man knew his.

(I mean, jesus, it's like the guy's trying to embarrass himself!)
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_scratch.gif

(I mean, jesus, it's like the guy's trying to embarrass himself!)
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_scratch.gif




Can you imagine?    ???

For Disney to not release this movie makes them somewhat contradictory.

Having been to Disney World in Orlando Florida last year, I can attest to the fact that they still promote the characters and the movie throughout The Magic Kingdom! There is a water roller coaster ride (for which I cannot remember the name) that is solely devoted to Bre'r Rabbit and his companions. Song's from the movie are played the entire ride and at the end there are tv screens actually screening parts of the movie!

Further on in The Magic Kingdom, you will find employees dressed in character costumes from the movie and you will also find Actual people performing hoe downs and singing songs from the movie!

So am I to understand that it is ok for Disney to have it in/on their property without racial criticism but it is simply too much for them to put it out to the general public?