With Warren Jeffs making the FBI "Ten Most Wanted" list and the success of the HBO drama "Big Love", polygamy is making the news more and more at the moment.

I am curious to see what others in here think of the practice.  While in the US it is illegal, it does have it's roots in most religions, and it is practiced currently in many areas of the world.

I said "other."  I was going to say "I don't care," but the only stories I've ever heard about it (at least in the US) have been negative.  And it always seems to be a man with multiple wives.  Hmm...my point is that I just, in my gut, don't like the idea.  That being said, it's not really my business if others choose this.

As for myself, I would not want to be married to more than one person, or for my spouse to have more than one wife.  One-on-one marriage is hard enough. 

I said "other."  I was going to say "I don't care," but the only stories I've ever heard about it (at least in the US) have been negative.  And it always seems to be a man with multiple wives.  Hmm...my point is that I just, in my gut, don't like the idea.  That being said, it's not really my business if others choose this.


Hey, who says it has to be the man with multiple wives?

Check out the movie "Paint Your Wagon".  It has Jean Seberg as a women with 2 husbands, played by Lee Marvin and Clint Eastwood.

I really don't know.  I love the show Big Love, but I don't know how accurate a portrayal of a polygamist lifestyle it is.  Is this the norm or do most polygamists act like Roman Grant, with the underage wife-to-be and all that jazz.  I guess if all the wives involved in the relationship are adults and come to it freely, I can't see what the problem is.  If they're underage or forced in anyway, that's where I draw the line. 

I went for 'it is wrong but their choice' - though the legal system will be on their back like a big fat monkey. If the women are stupid enough to want to be part of a harem then, yet again, it is their choice.

As for me on a personal level, I can only cope with one woman.

On a personal level, one man is enough for me. However, if they are consenting adults, who am I to say if it is wrong or not? I do have a problem with the fact that it is always the guy with more than one wife (except in the movie Paint Your Wagon  ;) ).  I think if a woman can handle more than one guy-IF she WANTS to, why not? In the case of Jeffs' society, 13 is NOT a consenting adult and I have a major problem with that-the fact that he is marrying off 13 year old girls. That is just WRONG!!!



Cat

I'm against it, but I think it should be legal.

I chose 'Do not care'.  Its really their business as far as I'm concerned(unless it involved minors).

For myself, I'll have enough trouble finding one good woman who will put up with me- why break my back going for two?

I think it's wrong and should be stopped.  Living in Utah, this is in the news nightly...especially Jeffs and his followers.  There are always stories of child brides forced to marry much older men.  It creeps me right the heck out. 

I think it's wrong and should be stopped.  Living in Utah, this is in the news nightly...especially Jeffs and his followers.  There are always stories of child brides forced to marry much older men.  It creeps me right the heck out. 


The whole child bride thing is completely unacceptable.

Yes it is.  There is one family that had one of the girls that was "married" to her uncle. (ewww)  She ran away and her father chased her down and beat the crap out of her then left her for dead.  It is wrong on so many levels.

The child bride thing is wrong for sure.^

But if its between consenting adults I feel it is their business.

I'm not against polygamy per se. I wouldn't want any part of it, mind you, but I don't think it's my business to judge how other people want to run their lives. "Consenting adults" is the key phrase. The only polygamous families we hear about are the troublemakers, like this Jeffs a-hole. Perhaps if polygamy were legalized we could regulate it better. There's the old liberal saw, I know. It's illegal to marry your 13-year-old cousin monogamously, but it's illegal to marry anybody polygamously, so while you're out there breaking the law, you might as well make one of your wives your 13-year-old cousin!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/06/ladysman.gif

Aren't we supposed to have freedom of religion in this country?

But then there are the complications with taxes and insurance.

This is why it is harder to be a liberal than to be a conservative. If you're a conservative you can just declare: "Document X says it's wrong, so it's wrong, and that's the end of it!" If you're a liberal, you have to say, "Well, there's this...on the other hand, there's that...and am I realy the one to say XYZ about this or that?"
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/nixweiss.gif

This is why it is harder to be a liberal than to be a conservative. If you're a conservative you can just declare: "Document X says it's wrong, so it's wrong, and that's the end of it!" If you're a liberal, you have to say, "Well, there's this...on the other hand, there's that...and am I realy the one to say XYZ about this or that?"
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/07/nixweiss.gif



Good point Max.  Sometimes, the latter just gets you nowhere.  Sometimes, the former gets you to places you'd rather not be.  :-\\

It's illegal to marry your 13-year-old cousin monogamously, but it's illegal to marry anybody polygamously, so while you're out there breaking the law, you might as well make one of your wives your 13-year-old cousin!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/06/ladysman.gif


Actually, that is not true Max.  And believe me, cause I live in Alabama.

There is a saying down here, "Welcome to Alabama, where you can marry your cousin at 14.  If she is 13, you have to go to Louisiana."

And that is true!  Shortly after I moved here (about 3 years ago), that is exactly what happened, 2 13 year old cousins went to Louisiana with their parents and got married.  The state of Alabama tried to think of something they could do about this, but since they were legally married, there was nothing they could do.  The last I heard, the girl was pregnant (this was last year, she was 15).

Myself, I have no problem with polygamy, as long as it follows all other laws and is mutually consenting.

The problem with the "compound" system that groups like the splinter LDS churches have is that they are closed systems, with one patriarchial figure (normally known as "the Prophet") acts as supreme dictator.  In systems like that, the fraud and abuse seems to be a problem, as young girls are used as pawns to assure the elders remain in power.  Any dissent is taken care of by banishment.

I have known several people over they years that were involved in polygamous lifestyles.  I have known others who had "open marriages", which some may argue is a form of polygamy.

But as somebody said earlier, one wife would be enough for me.  In fact, one is probably to much for me, which is why I have been single for so long.  :P

But as somebody said earlier, one wife would be enough for me.  In fact, one is probably to much for me, which is why I have been single for so long.  :P




That would be me. ;D

I don't see a problem with it.  Like others have said, as long as they are consenting adults and go into the situation willingly, who am I to say it is wrong?  I'd add another couple of caveats:  all spouses involved must be aware of the others and they must be able to support themselves.  Like Max said, you only hear of the troublemakers (like almost everything else) and I'd hate to see someone with 7 spouses and umpteen kids taking advantage of the welfare system.....as I feel with anyone else:  if you can't support umpteen kids, don't have them.

I don't see a problem with it.  Like others have said, as long as they are consenting adults and go into the situation willingly, who am I to say it is wrong?  I'd add another couple of caveats:  all spouses involved must be aware of the others and they must be able to support themselves.  Like Max said, you only hear of the troublemakers (like almost everything else) and I'd hate to see someone with 7 spouses and umpteen kids taking advantage of the welfare system.....as I feel with anyone else:  if you can't support umpteen kids, don't have them.


Watch out, I get ripped apart for saying that here.

Actually, that is not true Max.  And believe me, cause I live in Alabama.

There is a saying down here, "Welcome to Alabama, where you can marry your cousin at 14.  If she is 13, you have to go to Louisiana."

And that is true!  Shortly after I moved here (about 3 years ago), that is exactly what happened, 2 13 year old cousins went to Louisiana with their parents and got married.  The state of Alabama tried to think of something they could do about this, but since they were legally married, there was nothing they could do.  The last I heard, the girl was pregnant (this was last year, she was 15).

Myself, I have no problem with polygamy, as long as it follows all other laws and is mutually consenting.

The problem with the "compound" system that groups like the splinter LDS churches have is that they are closed systems, with one patriarchial figure (normally known as "the Prophet") acts as supreme dictator.  In systems like that, the fraud and abuse seems to be a problem, as young girls are used as pawns to assure the elders remain in power.  Any dissent is taken care of by banishment.

I have known several people over they years that were involved in polygamous lifestyles.  I have known others who had "open marriages", which some may argue is a form of polygamy.

But as somebody said earlier, one wife would be enough for me.  In fact, one is probably to much for me, which is why I have been single for so long.  :P



Good points, Mushroom. Those pubescent marriages made some nation-wide news recently, and at least one state was making a show of passing legislation against them. I think it was Georgia. When the media got wind of it, they started yelling, "That's outrageous!," and the state replied, "Yeah, but it looks like it's legal, so..." I don't think states want to get caught in that kind of embarrassment, so the laws will change. It wasn't always Southern states, either. I think the law has since changed, I'd have to research it, but at least into the '80s in New Hampshire the minimum age was 14, so long as the parents of both parties OK'd it.

I alluded to the LDS splinter groups when I mentioned "consenting adults." When you have a "cult" situation with a "prophet' in charge, a lot of people get railroaded into pre-arranged polygamy. That sh!t just doesn't fly in our culture. The Mormon church prohibited polygamy as a condition for Utah statheood and that was 1845, I think. So it's been a looooong time since polygamy has been kosher.

[quote author=

Good points, Mushroom. Those pubescent marriages made some nation-wide news recently, and at least one state was making a show of passing legislation against them. I think it was Georgia. When the media got wind of it, they started yelling, "That's outrageous!," and the state replied, "Yeah, but it looks like it's legal, so..." I don't think states want to get caught in that kind of embarrassment, so the laws will change. It wasn't always Southern states, either. I think the law has since changed, I'd have to research it, but at least into the '80s in New Hampshire the minimum age was 14, so long as the parents of both parties OK'd it.

I alluded to the LDS splinter groups when I mentioned "consenting adults." When you have a "cult" situation with a "prophet' in charge, a lot of people get railroaded into pre-arranged polygamy. That sh!t just doesn't fly in our culture. The Mormon church prohibited polygamy as a condition for Utah statheood and that was 1845, I think. So it's been a looooong time since polygamy has been kosher.





Utah didn't become a state until 1896.  Anti-polygamy activists used it to delay the state's entry to the union until then.  The LDS church banned the practice of polygamy in 1890.

Utah didn't become a state until 1896.  Anti-polygamy activists used it to delay the state's entry to the union until then.  The LDS church banned the practice of polygamy in 1890.
Well, at least they said they did.  There are supposedly church records that show "spiritual marriages" (ones for which there are no legal documents) into the 1920s.

Utah didn't become a state until 1896.  Anti-polygamy activists used it to delay the state's entry to the union until then.  The LDS church banned the practice of polygamy in 1890.

Ah, you're right, I stand corrected.


Well, at least they said they did.  There are supposedly church records that show "spiritual marriages" (ones for which there are no legal documents) into the 1920s.

For organized religion, that's par for the course. What they say the do, and what they really do don't jibe a lot of the time!
::)

With Warren Jeffs making the FBI "Ten Most Wanted" list ...



that's because he had a habbit of inducting under aged girls into his harrem

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter_Day_Saints

I can't say I see major issue with it, but I personally would want to dedicate myself fully to one person.

Well, at least they said they did.  There are supposedly church records that show "spiritual marriages" (ones for which there are no legal documents) into the 1920s.


Those tended to be "holdovers", marriages that were made before the new revelations changed the church policy.

And if you think about it, what else would they do?  Suddenly make hundreds of women into "unwed mothers", and force the families to dissolve?  Not very likely.

And most of the break-away splinter sects of LDS broke away because of the polygamy issue.  There are dozens of sects, some of which have rather violent histories.  There was one I remember in the 1980's in which the leader had the husbands of some of his followers killed, so he could take their widows as secondary wives.

Mainstream LDS considers these groups to be foul, and refuse to associate with them.  They tend to live in seperate communes, normally in an unincorporated area.  A few times though, they have tried to take over smaller communities (similar to what happened to Antelope, Oregon).

One of the interesting things about the series Big Love is how they portray the two groups of polygamists.  The main focus is around a single extended family, with 3 wives living in a residential community in houses next door to each other.  The "First Wife" is the de facto wife, while the other wives are introduced to people as family friends or distant relatives.

The other group is the "Compound", which is controlled by "The Prophet".  This is a self-contained community, with the Prophet acting as a feudal lord.  Wives are assigned by him as favors, younger wives given to those who please him the most.  People out of favor may have wives removed from the family, or even find themselves banished.

It is interesting that this show started several months before the addition of Warren Jeffs to the list.  And in reading about Jeffs, it is amazing how much his activities parallel those of Roman Grant on the show.  Makes you wonder how much influence the show had on placing this scumbag on the list.  And if this scumbag was part of the inspiration for the Roman Grant character.

I like Warren Jeffs 'coz he's an evil guy...who looks like Rick Moranis!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/12/duckie.gif

Polygamy is one wife too many.

So's monogamy.

Those tended to be "holdovers", marriages that were made before the new revelations changed the church policy.

And if you think about it, what else would they do?  Suddenly make hundreds of women into "unwed mothers", and force the families to dissolve?  Not very likely.

I'm not sure what you mean....if you mean that the "marriages" took place before the church "officially" denounced polygamy, they didn't.  These are "marriages" performed/recorded as late as the 1920s.  In many of these, the husband is the same, but the wife is different.

I'm not sure what you mean....if you mean that the "marriages" took place before the church "officially" denounced polygamy, they didn't.  These are "marriages" performed/recorded as late as the 1920s.  In many of these, the husband is the same, but the wife is different.


You have to look at if the "Wife" was the senior after the "First Wife" died.  That is something that occurs both in the series, and in real life in those off-shoot cults.  If the legal wife dies, the next senior wife then assumes legal status, marrying the husband.

Polygamy is one wife too many.

So's monogamy.


KARMA 2 U !!!!

You have to look at if the "Wife" was the senior after the "First Wife" died.  That is something that occurs both in the series, and in real life in those off-shoot cults.  If the legal wife dies, the next senior wife then assumes legal status, marrying the husband.
Nope.  For these "marriages", there is NO legal documentation, only within the church.....even the church admits that they didn't start excommunicating polygamists until then......there are still members of "mainstream" Mormon churches that are in polygamous marriages and, as long as they do it in private and don't tell anyone outside the church, the church basically "turns their back".

I really don't know.  I love the show Big Love, but I don't know how accurate a portrayal of a polygamist lifestyle it is.  Is this the norm or do most polygamists act like Roman Grant, with the underage wife-to-be and all that jazz.  I guess if all the wives involved in the relationship are adults and come to it freely, I can't see what the problem is.  If they're underage or forced in anyway, that's where I draw the line. 
From what I've seen in the news,most of the girls are underage and can't leave the compound.On the other hand,boys are often excommunicated for minor offences,to leave  more women for the older men.

From what I've seen in the news,most of the girls are underage and can't leave the compound.On the other hand,boys are often excommunicated for minor offences,to leave  more women for the older men.

See, this is where the Oneida Community had it all over LDS. In Oneida, the old guys had dibs on the young girls AND the old ladies had dibs on the young guys. All the elders were satisfied, nobody had to be banished.
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/Oneida.html

There was a young fellow from Lyme
Who married three wives at a time
When asked "Why the third?"
He replied "One's absurd!
And bigamy, sir, is a crime"

... but seriously, between consenting adults, I don't see why if they can get along that they shouldn't.  Here's a thought on why it probably won't work: On Sharing - Or, why polygamy isn't a great idea

Is there a difference between bigamy and polygamy? Both dictionary definitions say the same thing.

Is there a difference between bigamy and polygamy? Both dictionary definitions say the same thing.

I think "bigamy" is a legal term referring to somebody who is illegally married to more than one spouse, whereas "polygamy" doesn't have any legal connotations per se. It's not inherent in the linguistics, it's just the way usage developed.

Funny thing about the word "bigamy" is it sound kinda like another word--
A guy from North Carolina called the Phil Donahue show when they were talking about Evangelical movement, and he says,
"Yeah, I've known a lot Christian fundamentalists, and they was bigamists, they was ALL bigamists!"
Whaaaat?
Then Donahue says, "I think you mean BIGOTS, sir!"
;D

I think "bigamy" is a legal term referring to somebody who is illegally married to more than one spouse, whereas "polygamy" doesn't have any legal connotations per se. It's not inherent in the linguistics, it's just the way usage developed.

Oh . . . er . . . that's cleared it up for me.  ;D

I'm understanding you mean that polygamy just describes the situation as bigamy is a legal term though meaning the same thing in themselves?

Funny thing about the word "bigamy" is it sound kinda like another word--
A guy from North Carolina called the Phil Donahue show when they were talking about Evangelical movement, and he says,
"Yeah, I've known a lot Christian fundamentalists, and they was bigamists, they was ALL bigamists!"
Whaaaat?
Then Donahue says, "I think you mean BIGOTS, sir!"
;D


Ha ha! The guy from North Carolina probably meant bigamists as well.

Oh . . . er . . . that's cleared it up for me.  ;D

I'm understanding you mean that polygamy just describes the situation as bigamy is a legal term though meaning the same thing in themselves?



That seems to be right, Bobby.

It is more a difference in useage then in definition.

"Bigamy" normally refers to somebody who is married to two or more people, and the other spouses are not aware of each other.

Polygamy normally refers to a situation where each of the spouses is aware of the other, and is supportive of this relationship.

The root of the words "bigamy" and "polygamy" are simply marrying twice and marrying multiple times.  In this country, bigamy is a crime - polygamy would be a crime of "multiple bigamy", if you see what I mean, but doesn't have a separate criminal offence of its own.

Or (to use another pun): why men marry is a mystery; why they marry twice is a bigamystery

The root of the words "bigamy" and "polygamy" are simply marrying twice and marrying multiple times.  In this country, bigamy is a crime - polygamy would be a crime of "multiple bigamy", if you see what I mean, but doesn't have a separate criminal offence of its own.

Or (to use another pun): why men marry is a mystery; why they marry twice is a bigamystery

Hmmm...they go right fom monogamy and bigamy to polygamy. You never hear about "trigamy," or "quadrigamy," or "quintigamy," or "sextigamy".....actually, that last one sounds kinda fun.
Reminds me of the first Utah polygamy bust I heard about back in the '80s. It involved a polygamous clan involving two brothers, Addam Swapp and Jonathan Swapp.
Uh-huh-huh-huh, Swapp, is that their name, or is that what the do?
http://www.polygamyinfo.com/past_media%20plyg%2097%20trib.htm
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/11/3some.gif

That seems to be right, Bobby.


I see (said the blind man) . . .  :)

Or (to use another pun): why men marry is a mystery; why they marry twice is a bigamystery


Ha ha! Great pun it is too!

k.

Ha ha! Great pun it is too!

Pro: The plural of "mouse" is "mice".  The plural of "spouse" is "spice".

Con: A man is incomplete until he's married.  Then he's finished.

Pro: The plural of "mouse" is "mice".  The plural of "spouse" is "spice".


Nyuk nyuk, nyuk, glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks up goofy stuff like that!
:D

How about
Goose, Geese
Moose, Meese

http://www.fulldisclosure.net/images/Guests/423_Meese_150.jpg