Once considered one of the largest sponsors of international terrorism, the US is now making moves to re-establish full Diplomatic Recognition with Libya.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/05/17/opinion/edlibya.php

However, this does show that relations with "beligerant nations" does not have to dissolve into war.  Unlike Iraq, Libya has tried hard to gain internationsl approval.  At the beginning of the decade, Mommar Gaddafi even went as far as to approach the UN, tell them about his chemical weapons programs, and ask for their aid in dismantling the factories and disposing of the weapons created.

Mommar Gaddafi has even become a respected "Statesman" in the region.  One one of the leaders vowing to destroy Israel, he is now one of the leaders urging moderation and peaceful resolution in the region.  His ideal of "Israstine" is gaining support in the region.

I only hope that countries like Iran and North Korea will learn from Libya's lesson.  2 way co-operation goes a lot further then sabre rattling.

Well, I suppose it's better than sending a bunch of American kids into the sand to blow people's guts to kingdom come!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/08/rocketwhore.gif

Well, I suppose it's better than sending a bunch of American kids into the sand to blow people's guts to kingdom come!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/08/rocketwhore.gif


Max, if somebody had told me 20 years ago that we would be having relations this good with "Quadaffy Duck", I would have asked them what they were smoking.

Remember the "Line Of Death"?  The Germany Disco Bombing?  Pan-Am 103?  Carlos The Jackyl even kidnapped the OPEC oil ministers on orders (and payment) from Libya.

However, in 1990 it became obvious that things were starting to change when Mommar urged Saddam to get out of Kuwait.  And in the 1990's he dropped support of one terrorist group after another, instead working with other countries to find peacefull resolution to problems instead of violence.  His turning over doznes of terrorists for trial helped normalize his relations with the UK in the late 1990's.

In 1998, he even tried to work with Bill Clinton to stop the spread of Al-Queda.  But because of existing sanctions at the time, it was never acted upon.

In fact, I think I am gonna dig out my old Pinkard & Bowden tape.  I think it is in my car somewhere.

http://www.nd.edu/~rjervis/pals/doyle/libyan.html

Max, if somebody had told me 20 years ago that we would be having relations this good with "Quadaffy Duck", I would have asked them what they were smoking.

Remember the "Line Of Death"?  The Germany Disco Bombing?  Pan-Am 103?  Carlos The Jackyl even kidnapped the OPEC oil ministers on orders (and payment) from Libya.

However, in 1990 it became obvious that things were starting to change when Mommar urged Saddam to get out of Kuwait.  And in the 1990's he dropped support of one terrorist group after another, instead working with other countries to find peacefull resolution to problems instead of violence.  His turning over doznes of terrorists for trial helped normalize his relations with the UK in the late 1990's.

In 1998, he even tried to work with Bill Clinton to stop the spread of Al-Queda.  But because of existing sanctions at the time, it was never acted upon.

In fact, I think I am gonna dig out my old Pinkard & Bowden tape.  I think it is in my car somewhere.

http://www.nd.edu/~rjervis/pals/doyle/libyan.html


One thing I never do is disount the love and harmony that can arise between the USA and whatever nation we are supposed to be at odds with. Libya under Qadaffi has always garnered a certain amount of respect in that region and there was a great amount of handwringing in the Administration during that whole "Libyan Crisis" because the US embassy called for the evacuation of US citizens, and a very, very, large majority refused to leave, and were vocal about not wanting to go. My cynical nature tells me there is a lot more to the Qadaffi
story that we have not heard, and a lot of propaganda that may prove false. 

One thing I never do is disount the love and harmony that can arise between the USA and whatever nation we are supposed to be at odds with. Libya under Qadaffi has always garnered a certain amount of respect in that region and there was a great amount of handwringing in the Administration during that whole "Libyan Crisis" because the US embassy called for the evacuation of US citizens, and a very, very, large majority refused to leave, and were vocal about not wanting to go. My cynical nature tells me there is a lot more to the Qadaffi
story that we have not heard, and a lot of propaganda that may prove false. 


Actually, a lot of this simply stems from Mommar no longer taking a beligerant stance towards both American and European countries.

The reason why travel and eventually trade was ended with Libya was because of the state support of terrorism.  In addition to Carlos, Libya also provided a large amount of money to "Black September".  That is the group in 1972 that killed most of the Israeli Olympic Team.  And throughout the 1970's and 1980's, they sponsored numerous terrorist groups and training camps in their own country.  A lot of terrorists travelled openly on Libian Diplomatic Passports.

Libya did not do much better with England.  In 1984 London Constible Yvonne Fletcher was killed and 12 other people were injured when a member of the Libyan Embassy opened fire on a crowd outside their London Ligation.  After an 11 day seige, Libya continued to claim Diplomatic Immunity, so the all of the staff was PNG'ed and the embassy was closed.

Then in 1986 there were 2 incidents where Libyan jets opened fire on US Navy aircraft in international waters.  Both times the Naval fighters returned fire, resulting in the loss of 4 Libyan Aircraft.  In another incident, a Libyan patroll boat opened fire on a US Navy Destroyer, also in international waters.  The Destroyer fired back, destroying the boat and killing 35 people.

It was after these events that Libya urged attacks on American interests worldwide.  It was this declaration that resulted in the 1986 La Belle Disco bombing in Wast Berlin.  3 people were killed, and over 230 injured.  Within hours of the attack, it was discovered that the Assistant Consulate from the Libyan Embassy was involved.  This is the reason why airbases and terrorist camps were bombed.

2 years later, Pan-American Flight 103 was destroyed over Scotland.  The bomb was placed on the plane by Libyan Intelligence Officer.  It was Libya turning over this person in 2000 that helped the re-establishment of Diplomatic Relations with the UK.

In 2001, Libya finally turned over the suspects in the Berlin Bombing.  Musbah Abdulghasem Eter and 2 Palestinians were convicted by a German court, and sentenced to 12-14 years each.

There is ample proof that Libya was connected with most of the terrorist organizations of the 1980's.  However, it was probably the backlash of the 1988 bombing that made Momar rethink his approach to terrorism.  The backlash to the Pan-Am bombing from Europe was severe.  Even the Soviet Union cut back their support of Libya after that.  And of course within a few years, the Soviet Union was gone.

I honestly think that Mommar "turned over a new leaf".  Much like Castro, he has mellowed with age, and has seen that being the outspoken firebrand can isolate you from the "international community".  To all appearances, both the nation and Mommar have worked hard to mend fences that were damaged in the 80's, and are seriously trying to make peace with nations who they saw as enemies.

And it is not hard to see if the "Propaganda" is false.  Simply look at who was involved in the Libyan Embassy shooting, Flight 103, La Belle Sisco Bombing, Black September incident, and the kidnapping of the OPEC Oil Ministers.  The connections between all of these incidents and Libya is well known, and proven.

And as I'm sure you've heard, the families of the victims of Pan-Am 103 aren't too happy about us cozying up to the Colonel!

Once considered one of the largest sponsors of international terrorism, the US .


as a copyeditor i can tell you this is why you never want to dangle your modifiers... someone could read this and misconstrue it to mean the US is no longer one of the largest sponsors of international terrorism! you don't want to be courting those kinds of misconceptions.

as a copyeditor i can tell you this is why you never want to dangle your modifiers... someone could read this and misconstrue it to mean the US is no longer one of the largest sponsors of international terrorism! you don't want to be courting those kinds of misconceptions.


Old joke:

City College student: Can you tell me where the registration office is at?
Princeton student: Don't you KNOW not end your sentences with prepositions?
City College student: Oh yeah...can you tell me where the registration office is at, @sshole?

Joe Pesci's character in "With Honor" cracks a variation on the joke, and even then it was kinda stale, but I still like it!

And as I'm sure you've heard, the families of the victims of Pan-Am 103 aren't too happy about us cozying up to the Colonel!



As if the government thought they truly mattered.

And as I'm sure you've heard, the families of the victims of Pan-Am 103 aren't too happy about us cozying up to the Colonel!


Well, I would hardly call the re-establishment of Diplomatic Relations "cozying up".  Even during the worst of the Cold War, we never ended diplomatic relations with the USSR.

This is hardly in the same class of giving Libya Most Favored Nation Status, or giving them a Government Contract for military bases.  It is simply re-opening the embassy, and conducting formal talks.

I feel bad for the survivors of those on Pan-Am 103.  But that was years ago.  Libya paid restitution, and turned over the people responsible.  As long as the nation continues to favor peace instead of war, I think they should be treated fairly.

I feel bad for the survivors of those on Pan-Am 103.  But that was years ago.  Libya paid restitution, and turned over the people responsible.  As long as the nation continues to favor peace instead of war, I think they should be treated fairly.




The truth of the matter is we, "the masses" are pawns in the game.  When sitting down at the diplomatic table the negotiators do not ask what the people involved in a tragedy will accept, or not, our government figures out a way to get the survivors to accept what they have already decided upon.  In the larger scheme of things perhaps that is the way it has to be, right or wrong.