I think they can.  If *insert deity/force/chance/whatever here* created a human to be perfect, they could still have free will, and also have destiny, by means of making their emotions cause them to act perfect.  Thus, since they were created to be perfectly good, it would we their will to be good, since their desire by nature is to be good, but it would also be the will of their maker. Now here's the main question: if this is true, which I think it is, then why would God create people that do horrible things?  What's the point of creating fallible beings, when he could have created perfect beings that had complete free will within their own perspective?  This is another reason I don't buy monotheism.

why would God create people that do horrible things?  What's the point of creating fallible beings, when he could have created perfect beings that had complete free will within their own perspective?

Funny answer:  "Where's the fun in that?  It'd be kinda boring, y'know?" - God.

Serious answer, theological (Jewish, Christian God):  Read the Book of Ecclesiastes ("To see if you'd ever figure Me out!" - God), and then the Book of Job ("So I can place meaningful cosmic-scale bar bets against My adversary!" - God).  And leaving my snarkiness aside, the KJV version of the Book of Job has some of the most beautiful poetry that Western Civilization has come up with.  For a really good time, grab a science textbook and realize that although we've answered most of the questions that God spake to Job out of the Whirlwind, you could rewrite the poem with a few different questions and it'd be just as much of a b*ahem*chslap to modern man as it was to a guy named Job some mumblethousand years ago.

Serious answer, physics texbtook, no God required: The quantum world is fundamentally indeterminate.  Any God that created the unvierse we currently observe, built randomness into it.  "Why" is  the theologians' problem.  When we asked "How", we got televisions, semiconductors, a really cool form of cryptography, a very cool form of computation for certain problems, and we'll ignore the truly *WEIRD* implications of the theory until we come up with a better answer of "How".  It just works too well not to be true.

God, if He exists, not only rolls dice, He sometimes throws them where they cannot be seen.

Funny answer:  "Where's the fun in that?  It'd be kinda boring, y'know?" - God.

Serious answer, theological (Jewish, Christian God):  Read the Book of Ecclesiastes ("To see if you'd ever figure Me out!" - God), and then the Book of Job ("So I can place meaningful cosmic-scale bar bets against My adversary!" - God).  And leaving my snarkiness aside, the KJV version of the Book of Job has some of the most beautiful poetry that Western Civilization has come up with.  For a really good time, grab a science textbook and realize that although we've answered most of the questions that God spake to Job out of the Whirlwind, you could rewrite the poem with a few different questions and it'd be just as much of a b*ahem*chslap to modern man as it was to a guy named Job some mumblethousand years ago.

Serious answer, physics texbtook, no God required: The quantum world is fundamentally indeterminate.  Any God that created the unvierse we currently observe, built randomness into it.  "Why" is   the theologians' problem.  When we asked "How", we got televisions, semiconductors, a really cool form of cryptography, a very cool form of computation for certain problems, and we'll ignore the truly *WEIRD* implications of the theory until we come up with a better answer of "How".  It just works too well not to be true.

God, if He exists, not only rolls dice, He sometimes throws them where they cannot be seen.


So, we're just here to entertain God, because he was bored being alone?

I'm not going into the religious aspect, that is another debate, but I've always been a Fatalist rather than an Existentialist, in that I believe our genes more so than anything pre-determine not only our physical characterstics, personality.etc, but our very lives. Take the cases of the identical twins who, upon being seperated on both and living seperate lives (like the Nazi and the Jew), inexpicably lead very similar lives. The genes make us, and everything we do comes from that. Sure, we can learn, but only with the brain we were given since birth. So I guess I've always used that an excuse; I just wasn't built for it! Why are some guys really popular in school and others nerds? 99% of the time it's genetics. The positive traits like physical attractiveness, strength.etc will automatically propel one to the top of the pack in life. That's just my two-cents anyway...

So, we're just here to entertain God, because he was bored being alone?

Yup.  Horrible as it sounds, that's essentially the story of Job.

"Got a problem with that?  Fine.  When you can run this company, you're welcome to take over.  You still want the job or not?"
- God, as paraphrased from the Book of Job.

Personally, I don't blame the physicists.  Hey, the theocrats stopped thinking 2000 years ago.  At least the physicists took Him up on His offer and are working to earn their promotions. :)

This is purely a philosophical query and too broad a subject to be of interest on a board such as this.

it's a very Donnie Darko question.
since i just watched the film again for the millionth time last night, it' onmy  mind...ifyou can see where you're headed, can you change the outcome?

hmmmm.
would you want to?

This is purely a philosophical query and too broad a subject to be of interest on a board such as this.


Mmm...yes....philosophical and theological I'd say, but surely difficult to discuss in a meaningful manner using snippets and no vocal tone or eye contact.

But it's fun to try. ;)

ifyou can see where you're headed, can you change the outcome?

hmmmm.
would you want to?


Good question.  I know there are things that, in the short run, I've thought I would change but then, in the long run, I see a purpose for them so....hmmm...it's not an easy question.

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