unfortunataly i live in georgia where all of the over religios bastards live. a couple of days ago a church protested infront of the wallmart demanding that broke back mountain not be sold. also, the nearest movie theater refused to show broke back mountain because it featured gays.

i agree. it actually looks like a great movie  8)

These types of groups piss me off.  If they don't like the content of the movie, they should just keep quiet about it. 

The fundies are just about the least patriotic, least American people in this country. This country is founded on freedom.

People would take you more seriously if you learned proper grammar and spelling without a spellcheck. You seem very opinionated, though.

unfortunataly i live in georgia where all of the over religios bastards live. a couple of days ago a church protested infront of the wallmart demanding that broke back mountain not be sold. also, the nearest movie theater refused to show broke back mountain because it featured gays. i wish i were old enough so that people could take me seriously. i wish i could say something back to thos discriminatng religios bastards. but ofcourse i'm just some kid. (hence the name "this kid")


You could probably be taken more seriously if you didn't put everyone down and come off a little on the moronic side.

Religious this, gay this, blah blah blah.  I know television and government schools have hit today's younger crowd a little hard, but that doesn't mean they can't think.  I live in Georgia too.

Read the first amendment sometime.

I personally don't agree with these people, but they do have the right to protest as long as it's peaceful.

unfortunataly i live in georgia where all of the over religios bastards live. a couple of days ago a church protested infront of the wallmart demanding that broke back mountain not be sold. also, the nearest movie theater refused to show broke back mountain because it featured gays. i wish i were old enough so that people could take me seriously. i wish i could say something back to thos discriminatng religios bastards. but ofcourse i'm just some kid. (hence the name "this kid")

Ain't you rednecks got nothin' better to do? Wal-Mart discriminates against female employees, exploits migrant labor, breaks labor and OSHA laws left and right, and beats down the entrepeneur...but that's the American way! Selling a gay cowboy movie is the thing that deserves the wrath o' God! Never mind that all cowboy movies are gay cowoby movies!
:D


You could probably be taken more seriously if you didn't put everyone down and come off a little on the moronic side.


Uhhhhhh....no comment!
:-X

i like it when the right-wingers do stuff like this, because it makes them look stupid. hell, i might grab some stars and bars and go down there and join em, there's not enough agents provocateurs these days.

unfortunataly i live in georgia where all of the over religios bastards live. a couple of days ago a church protested infront of the wallmart demanding that broke back mountain not be sold. also, the nearest movie theater refused to show broke back mountain because it featured gays. i wish i were old enough so that people could take me seriously. i wish i could say something back to thos discriminatng religios bastards. but ofcourse i'm just some kid. (hence the name "this kid")



I live in Georgia.


Where are the overly religious bastards that you speak of?  Here's some food for thought; don't paint everyone in the same state with the same brush.

[quote author=

[quote author=

okay, i didn't say that everybody in georgia is an over religious bastard, i said that all of the over religious bastards live in georgia. other than that, it's a pretty nice place.


I never intend to live in the South. I hate the humidity, and beyond that, I'd miss the decent Italian food and omnipresence of Catholics and Jews, besides the new South. But you can't say ALL the overly religious bastards live in Georgia.

I try not to take criticism of my state personally, but I can't help it. I come from Jersey, after all, the nation's most ridiculed (but in my opinion, our best and most liveable and sound in many ways) state. Especially when it's from people who've only been on the Turnpike. But even that has a strange beauty to it.

I never intend to live in the South. I hate the humidity, and beyond that, I'd miss the decent Italian food and omnipresence of Catholics and Jews, besides the new South. But you can't say ALL the overly religious bastards live in Georgia.

I try not to take criticism of my state personally, but I can't help it. I come from Jersey, after all, the nation's most ridiculed (but in my opinion, our best and most liveable and sound in many ways) state. Especially when it's from people who've only been on the Turnpike. But even that has a strange beauty to it.


I could never live up North because I HATE cold weather, and I feel I'd miss the Hispanic influence in culture. 

I'd like to take this time to make a point.  You say you'd miss the Italian and Jewish cultural presence, yet you seem to have a problem with the Hispanic presence in this country.  But what you don't understand(and what many older southerners who grew up in a different era don't understand) is that for people who live where I do and have grown up in the last couple of decades, the Hispanic presence feels natural.  It doesn't feel foreign or not right.  I hold that part of the culture here as closely as you do Italian up there.  So maybe you can consider that from now on? I'm no saint and I know I have my faults, but it seems Tony that you sometimes have trouble thinking outside of yourself.

I also find it somewhat presumptious to say NJ is the most liveable state.  How much experience do you have with other states?

It bothers me, sometimes people from the Northeast act like where they live is the center of the universe.

I could never live up North because I HATE cold weather, and I feel I'd miss the Hispanic influence in culture. 

I'd like to take this time to make a point.  You say you'd miss the Italian and Jewish cultural presence, yet you seem to have a problem with the Hispanic presence in this country.  But what you don't understand(and what many older southerners who grew up in a different era don't understand) is that for people who live where I do and have grown up in the last couple of decades, the Hispanic presence feels natural.  It doesn't feel foreign or not right.  I hold that part of the culture here as closely as you do Italian up there.  So maybe you can consider that from now on? I'm no saint and I know I have my faults, but it seems Tony that you sometimes have trouble thinking outside of yourself.


My gripe with it is that they're treated so sheeshtily outside of the "naturally" Hispanic area, honestly, and yet they keep getting encouraged to come. Before, immigrants were treated like people (albeit dirt poor people without indoor plumbing who got swindled), not the tools of corporations. Also, Mexico should make an effort to treat its people well, instead of acting indignant about it. I'm half-fluent in Spanish and I think alot of the immigration is totally positive and the immigrants who I've known (my mother works in a local pre-K where alot of the people are children of Hispanic, mostly legal, immigrants) are hard-working. But when they come North they get treated with more disrespect and less opportunity than the Italians and Jews combined were, in alot of ways. And it's not their fault that unemployed citizens don't get minimum wage jobs they want while they do, it's the fault of people who hire them.

And there aren't as many low-wage jobs as there have been claimed to be. At the time, the Italians and Jews were providing an invigorating business presence vital to the industrial revolution and urban development. Now, many of the Hispanics are coming for the American dream, and many outside of "traditionally" Hispanic areas find lawn clippers and a flat bed truck, and a big fat dead end because the immigration system is broken.

It was half a joke stolen from my history textbooks that taught us Jersey pride. We have the mountains, the beach, farms and factories, diversity...I dunno. Of all the states I've been to, I've liked it the most. Though I don't think NYC is the center of the universe and personally hate it in alot of ways. I sort of want to be a Chicagoan, actually, and actually considered Houston for awhile as a place to live, but it's damn hot.

But when they come North they get treated with more disrespect and less opportunity than the Italians and Jews combined were, in alot of ways. And it's not their fault that unemployed citizens don't get minimum wage jobs they want while they do, it's the fault of people who hire them.



I know, and it REALLY pisses me off.  What is wrong with my Northern "liberal" bretheren?  The North is always talking down to the south about racism, but in my opinion we treat Hispanic immigrants ten times better than you guys.  You all seem to have a much more hostile attitude toward them than we do in the the southern half of the states.

I know, and it REALLY pisses me off.  What is wrong with my Northern "liberal" bretheren?  The North is always talking down to the south about racism, but in my opinion we treat Hispanic immigrants ten times better than you guys.  You all seem to have a much more hostile attitude toward them than we do in the the southern half of the states.


The North is pretty racist, though it doesn't admit it. All regions of the countries have their own demons. The North is more racially and ethnically polarized and segregated for the most part. Latin American immigrants shouldn't have to go to places where they're not welcome because we need our lawns trimmed, it's disrespectful to them.

The North is pretty racist, though it doesn't admit it. All regions of the countries have their own demons. The North is more racially and ethnically polarized and segregated for the most part. Latin American immigrants shouldn't have to go to places where they're not welcome because we need our lawns trimmed, it's disrespectful to them.



Errrrr.... or maybe you should WELCOME them rather than being intolerant? Mama mia!

Errrrr.... or maybe you should WELCOME them rather than being intolerant? Mama mia!


I'm not all the north, though. I'm welcoming of Hispanic immigrants, personally, as long as they're legal and hard-working, and I've thought of working to help teach ESL classes to make the adaptation easier since I love the Spanish language.

Also, I think there need to be more true immigrant neighborhoods. Those help people assimmilate better than just living in the deep 'burbs and doing garden work.

I'm not all the north, though. I'm welcoming of Hispanic immigrants, personally, as long as they're legal and hard-working, and I've thought of working to help teach ESL classes to make the adaptation easier since I love the Spanish language.

Also, I think there need to be more true immigrant neighborhoods. Those help people assimmilate better than just living in the deep 'burbs and doing garden work.


Me lo encanto tambien. :)

Here where I live they have no problem assimilating it seems.  They still very much retain their culture, but the most of them do speak English and do seem to respect our country.  We have immigrant neighborhoods too. Where i live in Tyler there are a couple of different "Hispanic areas" like that.  There are iglesias, panaderias, mercados etc. everywhere as well as restorantes and taquerias..

Me lo encanto tambien. :)

Here where I live they have no problem assimilating it seems.  They still very much retain their culture, but the most of them do speak English and do seem to respect our country.  We have immigrant neighborhoods too. Where i live in Tyler there are a couple of different "Hispanic areas" like that.  There are iglesias, panaderias, mercados etc. everywhere as well as restorantes and taquerias..


The thing is the Hispanics who live in neighborhoods and work their way up the social ladder gradually assimmilate well. The ones who live in isolated suburban enclaves don't.

Also when you go in these areas you see Mexican flags everywhere, but you also see a lot of American flags along with them.  The Mexican flag isn't meant to be a sign of hostility, its just pride in who they are.

Some would say "But they're supposed to be AMERICANS now!!"

They are and they know that.  they're proud of BOTH just like Italian immigrants or German immigrants were proud of both.

Get over it. I'm not mad because of the image Texas has.  Don't be so insecure as to take criticism of your state personally.  YOU know that you aren't that way.  But the fact is many people in the south ARE that way and you KNOW it.  I've lived down here my entire life.


dude, you're my hero  ;D

Get over it. I'm not mad because of the image Texas has.  Don't be so insecure as to take criticism of your state personally.  YOU know that you aren't that way.  But the fact is many people in the south ARE that way and you KNOW it.  I've lived down here my entire life.



Georgia is not my state.  I was born and raised in Illinois.  Illinois is my state. 

[quote author=

Then why take the offended tone? 


Because I have a lot of friends here in Georgia and I know a lot of people around here, and I have seen any of this so-called "over-religious" bastardy that the OP was talking about.  Some of them are from the Northern part of the state, but the majority are from the Southern part of the state, where stereotype would say those people exist and they aren't like that.  I'm not saying NO ONE here is like that, because we are in the Bible Belt, but the OP made it sound as if all people in Georgia/the South are like that, and that is just not true.  T

[quote author=

your friends can stick up for themselves.


We're aware of that.

We're way off-topic here. Knee-jerk homophobia promoted by the Christian Right is at the core of these "Brokeback Mountain" protests. That's why I pointed out all the well-publicized iniquities perpetuated by the Wal-Mart corporation in contrast to the redneck bellyaching about some bogus "values" issue.
Don't like "Brokeback Mountain," don't buy it, don't watch it. Why not let the free market work? If community values in Georgia really are as conservative as those protesters make them out to be, Wal-Mart won't make any money off "Brokeback Mountain," and stop stocking it because it doesn't sell. You conservatives believe in letting the free market work, don't you?
8)

this is a little off topic but why not allow gay marriage?

  i thought this was a free country where in you could mary whomever you choose.

[quote author=

Oh, that's not cool!

Seriously... what is wrong with being gay?

Just because a book says so (That's my understanding.)!?

... WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT!? All I ever hear is "it's wrong." or "Because the bible said".... or my favorite ::) "It's not right." Lay off, let movies be movies.

Oh, that's not cool!

Seriously... what is wrong with being gay?

Just because a book says so (That's my understanding.)!?

... WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT!? All I ever hear is "it's wrong." or "Because the bible said".... or my favorite ::) "It's not right." Lay off, let movies be movies.

What is the stronger theme throughout the Bible--
"Love your neighbor as yourself"
or
one passage in the book of Leviticus?

this is a little off topic but why not allow gay marriage?

   i thought this was a free country where in you could mary whomever you choose.


Who told you that?  This is a country with a book of laws a mile high with restrictions on just about any activity that comes to mind.

-You can't marry an 11 year ols
-You can't marry your sister in most states
-You can not marry more than one person at same time
-etc... etc...

Somewhere along the line somebody got the idea that discrimination is wrong.  HORSEFEATHERS, I say!  Discrimination is the stuff of everyday life, and we discriminate every time we have toi make a decison.

The type of discrimination that should be labelled as "wrong" is that which goes against the good of overall society.  And that's the rub... how to decide...  :-\\

We're way off-topic here. Knee-jerk homophobia promoted by the Christian Right is at the core of these "Brokeback Mountain" protests. That's why I pointed out all the well-publicized iniquities perpetuated by the Wal-Mart corporation in contrast to the redneck bellyaching about some bogus "values" issue.
Don't like "Brokeback Mountain," don't buy it, don't watch it. Why not let the free market work? If community values in Georgia really are as conservative as those protesters make them out to be, Wal-Mart won't make any money off "Brokeback Mountain," and stop stocking it because it doesn't sell. You conservatives believe in letting the free market work, don't you?
8)


I finally got to reading this thread.  Interesting questions here.  And I agree with Max that the free market is the way to go with this.  And that the people who don't like it can just boycott it, and the market will respond in kind.

But also, if a private citizen owns a theater and decides not to run the movie as part of their business, that's their right whatever their reason.

As far as the Christian Right, they piss me off too.  Because I'm a Christian and I've taken my share of criticism for saying that, in all things, God is pro-choice.  That doesn't mean that (within our religion) God hasn't set any rules...or that there aren't consequences for certain actions.  But we weren't created as robots, we were created as free-thinking beings who can make decisions of our own.  So when the religious right wants to ban something because they're afraid of the effects it might cause, they are not letting God's own freedom of choice process play out.  IMHO a person's faith should be strong enough to withstand the production of a movie with subject matter that is controversial or contrary to that person's beliefs.

(I haven't seen the movie yet but will; and good for them for making it.  I say, if there's a story to tell, tell it).

I finally got to reading this thread.  Interesting questions here.  And I agree with Max that the free market is the way to go with this.  And that the people who don't like it can just boycott it, and the market will respond in kind.

But also, if a private citizen owns a theater and decides not to run the movie as part of their business, that's their right whatever their reason.

As far as the Christian Right, they piss me off too.  Because I'm a Christian and I've taken my share of criticism for saying that, in all things, God is pro-choice.  That doesn't mean that (within our religion) God hasn't set any rules...or that there aren't consequences for certain actions.  But we weren't created as robots, we were created as free-thinking beings who can make decisions of our own. 

Then why should we have any laws at all?  After all, God gave us free will, eh?  No need for any laws, we'll all simply execute free choice in all matters.

Then why should we have any laws at all?  After all, God gave us free will, eh?  No need for any laws, we'll all simply execute free choice in all matters.


Laws create a structure for us to function in and those laws do, generally, reflect the morals and values of the wider society (one would hope).  But we still have free will.  We can choose to disobey the laws.  I'm not saying any behavior is okay.  I'm saying we always have a choice.  And the context is just to imply that we don't need to prescribe for other people (adults) what story lines they can develop in a film.  I'll have to go back and read what I wrote but...I don't think I implied that we shouldn't have laws.

As far as the Christian Right, they piss me off too. 

There are Christians and then there's the Christian Right. The Christian Right (aka fundamentalists, evangelicals) is not religious movement, it is a political movement. Jerry Falwell doesn't give a rip about abortion. He's a polical operative, just like Pat Robertson and James Dobson. Falwell had the vision after Roe v. Wade to realize "abortion" had a great potential as a wedge issue. He was absolutely right. There are millions of people who really do believe abortion is an abomination. Falwell isn't one of them. What the directors of the Christian fundamentalist movement are all about is getting people so morally outraged they will vote against their economic interests. These loudmouth preachers in their guilded mega-churches don't do anything Jesus said people should do, and neither does the Republican party. It's stone bullsh^t!
So as a Christian, pay the "Christian Right" no mind.

Pay Lyricboy no mind either, he's just goading you, trying to get a rise out of you!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/08/poke2.gif

There are Christians and then there's the Christian Right. The Christian Right (aka fundamentalists, evangelicals) is not religious movement, it is a political movement. Jerry Falwell doesn't give a rip about abortion. He's a polical operative, just like Pat Robertson and James Dobson. Falwell had the vision after Roe v. Wade to realize "abortion" had a great potential as a wedge issue. He was absolutely right. There are millions of people who really do believe abortion is an abomination. Falwell isn't one of them. What the directors of the Christian fundamentalist movement are all about is getting people so morally outraged they will vote against their economic interests. These loudmouth preachers in their guilded mega-churches don't do anything Jesus said people should do, and neither does the Republican party. It's stone bullsh^t!
So as a Christian, pay the "Christian Right" no mind.

Pay Lyricboy no mind either, he's just goading you, trying to get a rise out of you!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/08/poke2.gif


Right.  Agreed.  But just to clarify.  I really wasn't trying to discuss abortion when I mentioned "pro-choice" -- I meant it in a wider context.

But anyway, sure, the Christian Right is definitely a political machine.

Right.  Agreed.  But just to clarify.  I really wasn't trying to discuss abortion when I mentioned "pro-choice" -- I meant it in a wider context.

The widest context is the transvaluation of values.

Nietzsche said, in effect, that the Superman is the one who exercises his/her Will to Power; the one who rrealizes that all value systems are irrelevant, and in the face of this nihilistic void, decides to rise above him/herself.  One does so by  arrogating to oneself the right to make one's own moral code:  to transvaluate values themselves.  He also recognized that few people have the capacity to create a moral code without disastrous consequences. 

A young German corporal tried to so -- and got Nietzche 100% wrong when he whipped up his own moral code and then attempted to impose it on an unready planet by force.  Didn't work out so good.  'Nuff said about him. 

Strauss was the next guy to try it.  He got Nietzsche mostly wrong too (believing that it ought to be imposed on the world), but he recognized that most of the people will not (because they cannot) accept it.  So - two philosophies:  The esoteric ("inner") doctrine is  an elite few (a'la  Plato's Republic) can face the void and write up whatever value system they want -- but in order for society to function, the other 99.9999% of the population must be given a morality: this is the exoteric ("outer") system of rules.  Doing it by force doesn't work; the rubes cannot be made to believe; they must be led to believe.

Consider the 60s.  And witness the backlash of the "silent majority" against the hippie movement (to say nothing of the transformation of "hippies" into "yuppies").  Most people need to be led - they crave the control of an authority figure like the masochist craves the power of the whip.  Most "hippies" who were "making their own morality" simply succumed to nihilistic "tune in/turn on/drop out" philosophies and the movement fizzled.

Enter Strauss.  Suppose a few smart folks decided to whip up their own moral code.  Suppose it said that it was right that they take over the planet for themselves?  Suppose, further, that they observed that late-19th/early-20th century attitudes towards "traditional" morality resulted in a productive and stable society?  Suppose further, that they decided that the collateral damage of a few million (billion?) opponents might be worth it.  Suppose, furthest, that they decided that the only way to pull it off would be to trick the remaining billions (or at least the few hundred million that controlled the important weapons) that this was the Right Thing To Do, because God Himself has ordained it, or whatever the excuse is.

England, as they say, Prevails.

That's as close as you'll get to Inner Party doctrine from me.  I'm barely a member of the Outer Party.  The war's been profitable to me so far, but hyperinflation, if it happens when I'm not ready for it, will wipe me out just as well as it will everyone else likely to read this.