I wouldn't say it is, as long as you're attacking the religion and not the person and you're not criticising someone for the religion, but simply for instance posting why you don't like the religion on a forum, talking with someone who agrees with you, etc.  Discriminating against people for their beliefs is very bigoted and not tolerable, but simply logically stating why you don't like a faith in a place that's meant for debate IMO is fine.

No of course it isn't. As long as you don't personally attack someone because of their reliigon then it's fine.

Title is somewhat deceptive, so I will unnecessarily qualify my answer.

Acceptable: "I would not practice ___________ because its tenets do not match my own beliefs."
Unacceptable: "People should not practice ________."
Unacceptable: "The followers of ________ tend to be <insert negative adjective here>."

I think in order to say you don't like it you must have a complete understanding of that religion.  KWIM??

Title is somewhat deceptive, so I will unnecessarily qualify my answer.

Acceptable: "I would not practice ___________ because its tenets do not match my own beliefs."
Unacceptable: "People should not practice ________."
Unacceptable: "The followers of ________ tend to be <insert negative adjective here>."

What about: "people are free to practise whatever religion they like, even if it is a complete load of ridiculous mumbo-jumbo"?

or "I really don't understand why people follow <insert religion of choice here>, as the holy book it's based on is full of inconsistencies and contradictions"?

Saying you don't like a particular religion under no circumstances can be bad, as you can guarantee that people in that religion will be fairly free at saying they don't like some other one.


I wouldn't say it is, as long as you're attacking the religion and not the person and you're not criticising someone for the religion, but simply for instance posting why you don't like the religion on a forum, talking with someone who agrees with you, etc.

The problem you have here is that some people take any attack on their religion as an attack on them personally.  It's the same sort of hysterical over-reaction that swept the ME after publication of those Danish cartoons (though the Danish imam concerned obviously didn't think they were offensive enough: just to make sure that the folks back home got adequately frothy at the mouth, he added a couple of *much* more offensive images.  I'm still not exactly sure what he hoped to achieve...)

If you are in downtown Riyhad and you climb the highest minaret and start screaming, "The Prophet SUUUUCKS!," that would be bad. BAD FOR YOU!!!
:o

But seriously, folks, it is not "bad" in our culture to say you don't like one religion or another. It's all a matter of common sense. You know, time place and manner.

Here is what I despise: The implicit prerequisite that national candidates be persons of faith, preferrably born-again Christian. Religion should have no place in qualification for  public office, whether religious qualification is explicit or implicit. Can you imagine what would happen to Candidate Joe Shmo if he said, "Well, I'm an atheist..."
::)

Heck, the NOONE could ever say they don't like it because not even those who are part of it have a complete understanding.  I know some think they do, but I'm sure someone could come up with something they couldn't answer ;)


OK, how about at least an educated opinion.  Maybe read about it and then make judgements.  Don't base your opinion on what you hear in the media.  Better?

Here is what I despise: The implicit prerequisite that national candidates be persons of faith, preferrably born-again Christian. Religion should have no place in qualification for  public office, whether religious qualification is explicit or implicit. Can you imagine what would happen to Candidate Joe Shmo if he said, "Well, I'm an atheist..."
::)


I hate that as well, Max.  To me it shows how immature this country really is.  Germany's last chancellor Gerhard Schroeder was an Atheist, and the German people didn't seem to mind at all. 

There are still certain groups that can be be discriminated against in this country to a certain point and its socially acceptable.  Muslims, Atheists, and Gays mainly.

Us Atheists are hated and feared perhaps even more so than Gays imo, or at least as much.

I hate that as well, Max.  To me it shows how immature this country really is.  Germany's last chancellor Gerhard Schroeder was an Atheist, and the German people didn't seem to mind at all. 

There are still certain groups that can be be discriminated against in this country to a certain point and its socially acceptable.  Muslims, Atheists, and Gays mainly.


It seems like women, Blacks and Asians are now considered superior to the white male, and Muslims, Atheists, and Gays are the new inferior kinds.  Mexicans too are thought of pretty lowly because of the immigration problem.

Us Atheists are hated and feared perhaps even more so than Gays imo, or at least as much.

You are trying to steal Christmas. Gays aren't. Gays just looooove Christmas!
;D

You are trying to steal Christmas. Gays aren't. Gays just looooove Christmas!
;D


" You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch... " :D

Of course it is. There're a ton of religions that I seriously disagree with, partially as a Jew. I disagree with Chasidic/Orthodox and frum Conservative Judaism, extremist Islam, and nutty Pentecostal/Jehovah's Witnesses denominations, the Mormons, etc. I disagree with anything anti-gay to an extent. But I don't dislike all the people, necessarily, who practice them.

Hate the religion, but don't hate the people it it.

Something like that...

Hate the religion, but don't hate the people it it.

Something like that...


Exactly.

Religion is NOT like race.  You choose your religion.  I believe organized religion is just as open to attack and criticism as any political belief, such as Communism, National Socialism, etc.

Hate the religion, but don't hate the people it it.

Something like that...


What happened to tolerance, and love for your fellow human?

Oh wait, this is a pogram.  Tolerance and sensitivity have no place here.


What about: "people are free to practise whatever religion they like, even if it is a complete load of ridiculous mumbo-jumbo"?

or "I really don't understand why people follow <insert religion of choice here>, as the holy book it's based on is full of inconsistencies and contradictions"?

Saying you don't like a particular religion under no circumstances can be bad, as you can guarantee that people in that religion will be fairly free at saying they don't like some other one.


I really don't understand people from England.  How can you have both a Democracy and a Monarchy?  What a contradiction.  They are free to be that way if they want, but they all sound like idiots to me.

*I do not feel that way, but it does rather make a point about Intolerance*


Here is what I despise: The implicit prerequisite that national candidates be persons of faith, preferrably born-again Christian. Religion should have no place in qualification for  public office, whether religious qualification is explicit or implicit. Can you imagine what would happen to Candidate Joe Shmo if he said, "Well, I'm an atheist..."
::)

Yea!  And let's add Catholics to that list also.  And Mormons, we all know how bad they are!

BTW, over 84% of Americans call themselves "Christian".  That means out of every 100 politicians, odds are 84 of them will be "Christian".  Personally, I do not care what religion they belong to, as long as they do the job fairly and do not let their religion interfere with their job.


Us Atheists are hated and feared perhaps even more so than Gays imo, or at least as much.


Personally, I could not care less El Duderino.  I respect your right to have no religious belief.  I myself considered myself Agnostic until a few years ago.  I no more hate or fear you then I hate and fear gays, or anybody else in the world.  YOu do have a religion, it just happens to be a religion of nothingness *no insult intended, simply my view*.


Religion is NOT like race.  You choose your religion.  I believe organized religion is just as open to attack and criticism as any political belief, such as Communism, National Socialism, etc.


Oh, but there are times where it is a race.  Ask any Jew (especially Orthadox) and he will tell you that being Jewish is as much a race as a religion.

For most people, religion is part of who they are.  For most of us, we learn it from our parents, who learned it from their parents.  This is especially obvious in places like the Middle East and Latin America.  In these areas, the Church is often as powerful (if not more powerful) then the Government.  And try to get them to seperate their national and racial identity from the religion they belong to.  I wish you a lot of luck.

This is why the Middle East is such a tender area.  In that area, being "Arab" is the same thing as being "Muslim".  They are almost universally inclusive.  And the same thing to a lesser extent is visible in areas like Mexico, Italy, and areas where the Catholic Church holds dominance.  The church is so intertwined into their culture and national identity that they are almost one.

So you may think they are seperate, but they are not.  And this is one of the reasons why we get into problems dealing with some nations.  They simply do not understand a non-religious nation.  To them, we are "Godless", and therefore not to be trusted.

I really don't understand people from England.  How can you have both a Democracy and a Monarchy?  What a contradiction.  They are free to be that way if they want, but they all sound like idiots to me.

*I do not feel that way, but it does rather make a point about Intolerance*



::) The problem here is I don't automatically assume all religious people to be idiots.  Its a matter I disagree with them on, but like with politics I see it as my right to criticize and yes if I want to insult their BELIEFS as long as I'm not attacking them as a person.

For example, Shepherd of the Violent Flock and I discuss politics all the time, and we disagree on most things, and I'll say some of the things he supports "make no sense" and that they basically suck but I don't have anything against him personally and hes the same with me.  Infact we're friends, even though we do trade dozens over politics.

What happened to tolerance, and love for your fellow human?

Oh wait, this is a pogram.  Tolerance and sensitivity have no place here.

...and on the third day Harmonica rose again?


I really don't understand people from England.  How can you have both a Democracy and a Monarchy?  What a contradiction.  They are free to be that way if they want, but they all sound like idiots to me.

*I do not feel that way, but it does rather make a point about Intolerance*

I'd suggest that it means you have an incomplete understanding of a consitutional monarchy... the thing is, that if I think that a constitutional monarchy is a good idea then I'll argue for it (and frequently do with the rest of my family, who are by and large republicans)



And this is one of the reasons why we get into problems dealing with some nations.  They simply do not understand a non-religious nation.  To them, we are "Godless", and therefore not to be trusted.

Speaking as an atheist, this seems wonderfully ironic...

Speaking as an atheist, this seems wonderfully ironic...


;D ;D ;D

Believing in a higher power is one thing, but until they prove otherwise I'm always distrusting of people who go to Church.

What happened to tolerance, and love for your fellow human?

Oh wait, this is a pogram.  Tolerance and sensitivity have no place here.

I really don't understand people from England.  How can you have both a Democracy and a Monarchy?  What a contradiction.  They are free to be that way if they want, but they all sound like idiots to me.

*I do not feel that way, but it does rather make a point about Intolerance*
Yea!  And let's add Catholics to that list also.  And Mormons, we all know how bad they are!

BTW, over 84% of Americans call themselves "Christian".  That means out of every 100 politicians, odds are 84 of them will be "Christian".  Personally, I do not care what religion they belong to, as long as they do the job fairly and do not let their religion interfere with their job.

Personally, I could not care less El Duderino.  I respect your right to have no religious belief.  I myself considered myself Agnostic until a few years ago.   I no more hate or fear you then I hate and fear gays, or anybody else in the world.  YOu do have a religion, it just happens to be a religion of nothingness *no insult intended, simply my view*.

Oh, but there are times where it is a race.  Ask any Jew (especially Orthadox) and he will tell you that being Jewish is as much a race as a religion.

For most people, religion is part of who they are.  For most of us, we learn it from our parents, who learned it from their parents.  This is especially obvious in places like the Middle East and Latin America.  In these areas, the Church is often as powerful (if not more powerful) then the Government.  And try to get them to seperate their national and racial identity from the religion they belong to.  I wish you a lot of luck.

This is why the Middle East is such a tender area.  In that area, being "Arab" is the same thing as being "Muslim".  They are almost universally inclusive.  And the same thing to a lesser extent is visible in areas like Mexico, Italy, and areas where the Catholic Church holds dominance.  The church is so intertwined into their culture and national identity that they are almost one.

So you may think they are seperate, but they are not.  And this is one of the reasons why we get into problems dealing with some nations.  They simply do not understand a non-religious nation.  To them, we are "Godless", and therefore not to be trusted.


You're right in saying race and religion are intertwined. For example, I'm nonpracticing, but Judaism is so much of an ethnic identity for me that it's like my race. Well, it's really a tribe, both race and religion count.

You're right in saying race and religion are intertwined. For example, I'm nonpracticing, but Judaism is so much of an ethnic identity for me that it's like my race. Well, it's really a tribe, both race and religion count.


You're right, it is both(I'm the ethnic one too).  And I have nothing for the religious aspect.  I recognize that part of my ethnic heritage though,  I have nothing against it. 

Just because Judaism is the "ethnic faith" of the Hebrew people does not mean its inseperable from the Hebrew identity.  Look at Indians.  Hinduism is an "ethnic" Indian faith, but its not inseperable from being Indian.  Lots of Indians are Muslims, or Sikhs or another religion.

You're right in saying race and religion are intertwined. For example, I'm nonpracticing, but Judaism is so much of an ethnic identity for me that it's like my race. Well, it's really a tribe, both race and religion count.


Race and religion can be intertwined, but they can also be easily separated. I do not identify much with my religion (Judaism, if it matters) and I do not feel it has much to do with my identity. Just depends on the person and how they identify...

Wow, three of us.  Although I only count in a way.  My tie is only ethnic.  My mom's maternal grandmother was Hebrew.  Which technically makes me Jewish..

Just because some peoples feel that their religious and ethnic identities are intertwined does not mean that questioning their religion has an ethnic or racist root.  Recently, the government here has tried to enact laws against "incitement to religious hatred", the motivation behind it seeming to be to give the Muslim religion the same protection as Judaism has through the race discrimination legislation.

But in another delicious irony, ISTM that the proposed legislation would theoretically mean that a book which explicitly says "Thou Shalt Not Suffer a Witch to Live" would have to be banned, given that Wicca is an accepted religion these days...

Wow, three of us.  Although I only count in a way.  My tie is only ethnic.  My mom's maternal grandmother was Hebrew.  Which technically makes me Jewish..



Make that 4 of us. I know according to Jewish traditions, I am not reconignized by the Jews since my dad is Jewish (even though he claims to be an athiest Jew who reciently joined the Society of Friends-the Quakers-try figuring that one out  ??? ) and my mother is not. Growing up, we celebrated both Easter and Passover, both Hannakah and Christmas. Today, the only thing I do is light the candles at Hannakah. Even though I am aware that it is a minor holiday in the Jewish faith, I do it to reconigze my Jewish heritage. I do call myself a Jew by heritage but I stress that I don't practice the Jewish faith. (BTW, for all of you who are not aware, I am a practicing Pagan.)

Funny story: My grandmother lives in a Jewish retirement community. A few years ago, I was out that way during Passover and we all went to the community for the Ceder dinner. When the first part was over with and it was time for dinner, my sister asked "What's for dinner? Pork?"  :o :o :o  I couldn't believe that she didn't know that pork was not kosher and therefore is a big no-no in the Jewish faith. We also took my grandmother out for lunch one day and she ordered a ham sandwich. I made a comment and she said that many of the residents get non-kosher foods when they go out because they can't get it in the community.  ;D ;D



Cat

I've never wanted to be a Jew so bad  ;D

Make that 4 of us. I know according to Jewish traditions, I am not reconignized by the Jews since my dad is Jewish (even though he claims to be an athiest Jew who reciently joined the Society of Friends-the Quakers-try figuring that one out  ??? )


OMG, that so reminds me of a joke I was told by a Rabbi once.

2 Rabbis were talking, comparing how bad things were in their lives.  Finally the older one decides he has heard enough, and fills his friend in on his life.

"Oy, so you think you got it bad?  Last month, my son became a Catholic Priest, my wife left me and became a Nun, and half of my shul have converted and are now Quakers."

"Oh wow, that is bad."

"You said it!  Now, my son is a Father, my wife is a Sister, and some of my best Jews are Friends!"

*ba-dump-bump*

Make that 4 of us. I know according to Jewish traditions, I am not reconignized by the Jews since my dad is Jewish (even though he claims to be an athiest Jew who reciently joined the Society of Friends-the Quakers-try figuring that one out  ??? ) and my mother is not. Growing up, we celebrated both Easter and Passover, both Hannakah and Christmas. Today, the only thing I do is light the candles at Hannakah. Even though I am aware that it is a minor holiday in the Jewish faith, I do it to reconigze my Jewish heritage. I do call myself a Jew by heritage but I stress that I don't practice the Jewish faith. (BTW, for all of you who are not aware, I am a practicing Pagan.)

Funny story: My grandmother lives in a Jewish retirement community. A few years ago, I was out that way during Passover and we all went to the community for the Ceder dinner. When the first part was over with and it was time for dinner, my sister asked "What's for dinner? Pork?"  :o :o :o  I couldn't believe that she didn't know that pork was not kosher and therefore is a big no-no in the Jewish faith. We also took my grandmother out for lunch one day and she ordered a ham sandwich. I made a comment and she said that many of the residents get non-kosher foods when they go out because they can't get it in the community.  ;D ;D



Cat


My family has all been pretty secular. My father is the child of a German Holocaust survivor who totally disowned the religion and a secularly-raised Polish Jew (Yale-educated on scholarship, tax lawyer), who was raised secularly in Yonkers because that was what you did to assimilate. My mother's family were semi-religious. I think the first time my father went to a Passover seder was when he was 31 and went to one with my mother's family, though he's 110% Jewish.

Funnily enough, my maternal grandmother, who was raised Jewish in the Bronx, adores pork. When she was a child, she went to stay with her Orthodox uncle in another part of the Bronx and took a ham sandwich, and they subsequently became furious. I'm technically kosher because I'm a vegetarian. The way I view Judaism as an important heritage is that it's one of perseverance, education, literacy, and achieving more than your share through learning. Jews have done so much to benefit the world for being a small ethnic group. I mean, look at the laundry list of business, artistic (including literary), academic, scientific, theatrical, comedic achievements. I'm interested in learning more about my heritage and the religion when I get to college, because I'm a temple school dropout. I plan to raise my kids as Jewish because of that heritage, and because it's a fairly inoffensive and sound religion if practiced Reform.

There are a lot of religions I don't agree with, but to each his own.


I DO have a problem with how certain people think all Christians are bigoted extremist nutjobs like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and Jimmy Swaggart...

I believe in a loving, tolerant, accepting God and Jesus.

My family has all been pretty secular. My father is the child of a German Holocaust survivor who totally disowned the religion and a secularly-raised Polish Jew (Yale-educated on scholarship, tax lawyer), who was raised secularly in Yonkers because that was what you did to assimilate. My mother's family were semi-religious. I think the first time my father went to a Passover seder was when he was 31 and went to one with my mother's family, though he's 110% Jewish.

Funnily enough, my maternal grandmother, who was raised Jewish in the Bronx, adores pork. When she was a child, she went to stay with her Orthodox uncle in another part of the Bronx and took a ham sandwich, and they subsequently became furious. I'm technically kosher because I'm a vegetarian. The way I view Judaism as an important heritage is that it's one of perseverance, education, literacy, and achieving more than your share through learning. Jews have done so much to benefit the world for being a small ethnic group. I mean, look at the laundry list of business, artistic (including literary), academic, scientific, theatrical, comedic achievements. I'm interested in learning more about my heritage and the religion when I get to college, because I'm a temple school dropout. I plan to raise my kids as Jewish because of that heritage, and because it's a fairly inoffensive and sound religion if practiced Reform.



Actually, I thought not all Reform Jews necessarily follow the dietary laws? Do some of them have a more liberal interpretation of Halakha?

Actually, I thought not all Reform Jews necessarily follow the dietary laws? Do some of them have a more liberal interpretation of Halakha?


Yes. In the reform Jewish community, you may be a Jew with a Jewish father and not have to undergo conversion. Not all reform Jews, in fact very few, follow the dietary laws, except for on holidays.

Yes. In the reform Jewish community, you may be a Jew with a Jewish father and not have to undergo conversion. Not all reform Jews, in fact very few, follow the dietary laws, except for on holidays.


Do you eat shrimp wrapped in bacon? :D

Also, isn't the ritual bath not even considered to be a required thing for conversion by Reform Judaism(or certain groups at least)?

how about this...... 

    all religion is bogus. religion is stupid. i hate religion!!!
             
                                            was that bad? was that mean?

how about this...... 

    all religion is bogus. religion is stupid. i hate religion!!!
               
                                            was that bad? was that mean?


*claps hands* religion sucks. im an agnostic.

how about this...... 

    all religion is bogus. religion is stupid. i hate religion!!!
               
                                            was that bad? was that mean?
not bad, not mean. sounds a little bit immature and. Usually a person can find good in almost anyone or anything if they open there eyes to look. But you can't see if you stereotype all and pre-judge.

*claps hands* religion sucks. im an agnostic.
now don't get all vexed over religion. nobodys making or forcing anything on anyone, even if your parents make you go to church, they can never make you believe it. That power is always all yours.

I understand Badfinger.  I have nothing wrong with people who practice religion and don't shove it in my face :) Nobody can force me to believe.

I understand Badfinger.  I have nothing wrong with people who practice religion and don't shove it in my face :) Nobody can force me to believe.
You're smart and wise beyond your years and I'm being serious,and i also know you can act your age sometimes, but you have some depth and thought going on in your mind and I appreciate you being fair in your assessment of people of faith, or faith itself.  8)

You're smart and wise beyond your years and I'm being serious,and i also know you can act your age sometimes, but you have some depth and thought going on in your mind and I appreciate you being fair in your assessment of people of faith, or faith itself.  8)


Why thank you :)  8)

Why thank you :)  8)
sure, I gotta be nice once in awhile, and you young people argue so well, I swear you ought to all go to law school, you, the Dude, and others.

sounds a little bit immature


But some think religion itself is quite immature. ;)

Do you eat shrimp wrapped in bacon? :D


I think my grandmother and mother do. I just eat shrimp every once and a while...my mother's family on both sides were in the candy business, actually.

I don't think all religion sucks, personally. I used to. But I now take it with a grain of salt. There's alot of good in most of it. It's interpreting it with yourself in mind that IMO produces good results. I personally think it's immature to think all religion sucks.

I think my grandmother and mother do. I just eat shrimp every once and a while...my mother's family on both sides were in the candy business, actually.

I don't think all religion sucks, personally. I used to. But I now take it with a grain of salt. There's alot of good in most of it. It's interpreting it with yourself in mind that IMO produces good results. I personally think it's immature to think all religion sucks.


Well you go on thinking that. 

But i think you like a lot of people in here fail to make the distinction between personal beliefs and organized religion.

I don't necessarily look down on personal spiritual beliefs, I look down on organized religion.  To me it is a flawed concept from the start, therefore any of it "sucks".  You cannot take something as personal as spirituality and try to make a system for everyone who joins a group to follow.  Its ridiculous.  In my opinion its probably the most personal thing in the world.  And no two people should think EXACLTY alike on it(spirituality).

not bad, not mean. sounds a little bit immature and. Usually a person can find good in almost anyone or anything if they open there eyes to look. But you can't see if you stereotype all and pre-judge. now don't get all vexed over religion. nobodys making or forcing anything on anyone, even if your parents make you go to church, they can never make you believe it. That power is always all yours.


now, i'm not saying i hate people who practice religion, i just hate religion itself. however, i do hate the over religios.

OMG, that so reminds me of a joke I was told by a Rabbi once.

2 Rabbis were talking, comparing how bad things were in their lives.  Finally the older one decides he has heard enough, and fills his friend in on his life.

"Oy, so you think you got it bad?  Last month, my son became a Catholic Priest, my wife left me and became a Nun, and half of my shul have converted and are now Quakers."

"Oh wow, that is bad."

"You said it!  Now, my son is a Father, my wife is a Sister, and some of my best Jews are Friends!"

*ba-dump-bump*



That reminds me of another joke I heard.

A rabbi, a minister and a priest went out into the woods to go fishing. It was such a hot day and since they were the only ones out there, they decided to go skinning dipping in the lake. When it was almost time to go home, they got out of the lake and went to get their clothes that were hanging on a bush. Before they could get there, a couple of women from town came by. The minister and the priest covered their privates with their hands while the rabbi covered his face. After the women left, the minister and priest asked why the rabbi covered his face instead of his privates. The rabbi answered, "In my congregation, people know me by my face."  ;D ;D ;D



Cat

how about this...... 

    all religion is bogus. religion is stupid. i hate religion!!!
              
                                            was that bad? was that mean?
No, because you are entitled to your opinion. But if you said that to someone like Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson, you'd probably be told you're going to h*ll.

Well you go on thinking that. 

But i think you like a lot of people in here fail to make the distinction between personal beliefs and organized religion.

I don't necessarily look down on personal spiritual beliefs, I look down on organized religion.  To me it is a flawed concept from the start, therefore any of it "sucks".  You cannot take something as personal as spirituality and try to make a system for everyone who joins a group to follow.  Its ridiculous.  In my opinion its probably the most personal thing in the world.  And no two people should think EXACLTY alike on it(spirituality).
I have a gripe against some organized Christian churches because they don't really accept people 'as is'..such as gays and lesbians, and some churches don't do much to make disabled people feel welcome, like having special audio listening devices for hearing impaired, sign language for deaf people, or even ramps or bathrooms for those who use wheelchairs or scooters...Some churches have those things though, and there are a few in my area that have those adaptations and support groups for gays, lesbians, and mentally ill people.

now, i'm not saying i hate people who practice religion, i just hate religion itself. however, i do hate the over religios.
that's cool, appreciate you clearing it up for me, sometimes I skim so fast I miss the meaning but either your you're entitled to your opinion and have a right to like or dislike what your choose. take it easy.  8)

Well you go on thinking that. 

But i think you like a lot of people in here fail to make the distinction between personal beliefs and organized religion.

I don't necessarily look down on personal spiritual beliefs, I look down on organized religion.  To me it is a flawed concept from the start, therefore any of it "sucks".  You cannot take something as personal as spirituality and try to make a system for everyone who joins a group to follow.  Its ridiculous.  In my opinion its probably the most personal thing in the world.  And no two people should think EXACLTY alike on it(spirituality).


I agree with that, totally. I look down on some aspects of organized religion but also think it's an important and natural societal force. I think an organized religious community including varied beliefs within a cooperative spectrum is right for some people, though, and that's what I'm looking for when I'm in college (hopefully a GLBT Jewish congregation.) But not all organized religion is bad, either. I'm going to go on a limb and say I disagree with most of it, but it can be done right, for some people.

I agree with that, totally. I look down on some aspects of organized religion but also think it's an important and natural societal force. I think an organized religious community including varied beliefs within a cooperative spectrum is right for some people, though, and that's what I'm looking for when I'm in college (hopefully a GLBT Jewish congregation.) But not all organized religion is bad, either. I'm going to go on a limb and say I disagree with most of it, but it can be done right, for some people.


Well, I get what you're saying. 

I don't harbor as much resentment against faiths like Reform Judaism or Wicca because they tend to defy the usual definition of organized religion in that they aren't really dogmatic, and they don't see their way as the end all be all of existence.

Well, I get what you're saying. 

I don't harbor as much resentment against faiths like Reform Judaism or Wicca because they tend to defy the usual definition of organized religion in that they aren't really dogmatic, and they don't see their way as the end all be all of existence.


Yeah. I think overall Reform/Reconstructionist Judaism is pretty responsible and positive. It's a very modern form of organized religion. Though, I think in some ways I'd like to try out being conservative because of its increased connection to tradition.

No. I can say "I don't like Christianity because I think Jesus was a con artist who wasn't even talking about the same god." (which I believe), as long as I'm not trying to be inflammatory. But if I said, say "DONNIE DARKO LIKES THE PENIS CAUSE HE'S AGNOSTIC!!!!" or something like that... that's bad.

The point I think you are missing is that not everyone in "organized religion" thinks exactly alike, though.  Yes, they may all have the same basic beliefs, but you are likening them to drones, with no ability to decide ANYTHING for themselves, which is not the case for most. 



Its the big similarities that matter in this case, not all the little differences. ;)

The point I think you are missing is that not everyone in "organized religion" thinks exactly alike, though.  Yes, they may all have the same basic beliefs, but you are likening them to drones, with no ability to decide ANYTHING for themselves, which is not the case for most. 

That being said, I guess I don't have a problem with most organized religions.  I have been fortunate enough to experience many "Christian" religions and not a single one of them has said "If you don't believe X, then you cannot be a part of *insert religion*" (with the exception of believing in God/Jesus-but I don't know why anyone would want to be part of a "Christian" religion if they didn't.)


Most of them don't think about religion all the time, even though they generally consider it their #1 priority.

No. I can say "I don't like Christianity because I think Jesus was a con artist who wasn't even talking about the same god." (which I believe), as long as I'm not trying to be inflammatory. But if I said, say "DONNIE DARKO LIKES THE PENIS CAUSE HE'S AGNOSTIC!!!!" or something like that... that's bad.


What's so bad about liking the penis?

What's so bad about liking the penis?


Nothing, people can like whatever parts they want.  I like my penis. ;D

I like the penis 8) Then you must have a problem with ANY "organization" based on similar thinking....republicans, democrats, independents, the military, chess clubs, atheists, etc.....because ALL of them have "big similarities" in their thinking and their membership in said organizations is based on those beliefs.


I think you're making a leap of logic there.  You can't compare spiritual beliefs to political beliefs.. one is personal, and the other is the exact opposite.

I'm starting to get a better idea of how people here really feel about me- thanks.

I think you're making a leap of logic there.  You can't compare spiritual beliefs to political beliefs.. one is personal, and the other is the exact opposite.



Aren't political beliefs personal, too?



Cat

Aren't political beliefs personal, too?



Cat


What i mean is that political beliefs are about public subjects like taxes, war etc. whereas spiritual beliefs are a personal thing(your philosophy on life, life after death etc.).

Saying you don't like a particular religion isn't bad, but if you say something like "I don't like Christianity because everyone who follows it is crazy", then IMO, that's bad. 

What's so bad about liking the penis?


Nothing, nothing.. but some people might consider that an insult.. some people have issues with the patrons of the penis, so calling them members of that group may upset them.

Nothing, nothing.. but some people might consider that an insult.. some people have issues with the patrons of the penis, so calling them members of that group may upset them.


Straight women are also "patrons of the penis."

Patrons of the penis ... I like that  ;D

You can't comment on somthing unlessyou've been part of it.  So many cultures and belifs in this world..who can say which is right and which is wrong?  You can disagree, but in the end, you have to know that its all just "different" and that they clash.
I cannot judge another for the way they live and the way they were raised...

UNLESS it's withing my own society , my mores, my cultural system.  And even then- I wonder.  I can say iI don't like the way a typical family in Arkansas lives their lives, they can say the same about me.  It comes as close as my next-door neighbor.  So I (,me, personally) cannot say I like or dislike a religion.

Sorry, but I beg to differ.  Most people base their political beliefs on their spiritual beliefs.  You can't say that one is based on faith and the other isn't as they both are. 


Well I don't, and I don't care.

Then why bother posting?


Why should I stop posting just because my political beliefs aren't spiritually-inspired?

They are, you just don't realize it or want to accept it.  Your political beliefs are based, to an extent, on your atheism.  Atheism IS a "religion", like it or not.  The second definition of "religion" in my Webster's New World Dictionary is:  a)any specific system of belief, worship, conduct, etc. often involving a code of ethics and a philosophy. b)any system of beliefs, practices, ethical values, etc. 

Furthermore, the reason I said "Why bother posting?" is whenever someone challenges you or points out an inconsistency in your reasoning that you don't see, you throw a hissy fit.  If you're going to throw out theories, be prepared to have them challenged.  If you are going to get pissy whenever someone challenges you, then you shouldn't even bother posting.  Trust me, my views have been challenged probably more than they've been agreed with, but you don't see me whining about it every time do you?


okay

They are, you just don't realize it or want to accept it.  Your political beliefs are based, to an extent, on your atheism.  Atheism IS a "religion", like it or not.  The second definition of "religion" in my Webster's New World Dictionary is:  a)any specific system of belief, worship, conduct, etc. often involving a code of ethics and a philosophy. b)any system of beliefs, practices, ethical values, etc. 

Furthermore, the reason I said "Why bother posting?" is whenever someone challenges you or points out an inconsistency in your reasoning that you don't see, you throw a hissy fit.  If you're going to throw out theories, be prepared to have them challenged.  If you are going to get pissy whenever someone challenges you, then you shouldn't even bother posting.  Trust me, my views have been challenged probably more than they've been agreed with, but you don't see me whining about it every time do you?


I agree that atheism is a belief system.  Technically, it's not a "religion", because it's not practiced, but hardcore atheism is a belief because you feel certain that there's no God.  Agnosticism is closer to being totally without beliefs.  I'm a "softcore atheist".  I doubt the monotheistic God is real, although I don't totally deny it because it's not proven that he doesnt, but I do think it's logical to think that there's a creative force.

I agree that atheism is a belief system.  Technically, it's not a "religion", because it's not practiced, but hardcore atheism is a belief because you feel certain that there's no God.  Agnosticism is closer to being totally without beliefs.  I'm a "softcore atheist".  I doubt the monotheistic God is real, although I don't totally deny it because it's not proven that he doesnt, but I do think it's logical to think that there's a creative force.


I'm not really a hardcore atheist, though..

I call myself an atheist because I'm definitely sure theres no corpreal(is that the word) being who is the creator, but there could be a force that drives the whole universe.. and I also think there could be an afterlife.. its just I don't believe theres an actual being who is "God", I think if there is something its more like a natural force, and if there is life after death its not heaven its just a process we don't understand yet.

I'm not really a hardcore atheist, though..

I call myself an atheist because I'm definitely sure theres no corpreal(is that the word) being who is the creator, but there could be a force that drives the whole universe.. and I also think there could be an afterlife.. its just I don't believe theres an actual being who is "God", I think if there is something its more like a natural force, and if there is life after death its not heaven its just a process we don't understand yet.


Ah, I see.  I pretty much agree with that :)

Actually, heres an idea i've mulled around for some time..

We human beings are ran by our minds, that is where all of our personality and memories are stored.. the brain is the physical element that currently holds our minds, but our actual conciousness is an energy(our entire bodies actually run on electricity), so when a person's body dies maybe the energy detaches from it and moves on? Because we die when our BODY wears out, whos to say that the "non-physical" part of us is worn out as well?

There could actually theoretically be something occupying the same space im in right now, but im not aware of it. Thats because of molecular vibration occuring at different rates(this is one of the theories used in discussing parallel universes)..

They have what is called Kirilian(i think thats the word for it) photography, where they can see a person's "aura".  Some people think we might actualy have several "bodies", but we can only perceive the one that vibrates at the slowest rate(i.e. our physical body).  So maybe what we know of as death is just the physical body dying, but the others move on.

The universe is basically one big keg of energy.. EVERYTHING is energy in one form or another, really(Well the universe did come from an explosion so that makes sense). Think of our brains as like receivers and the universe as radiowaves.. Our brain "receives" everything and then interprets it.. But if the wiring were re-done, who knows what kind of things we'd pick up on we weren't able to before?  Theres a part of physics that says theres actually alot more dimensions to the universe than we are aware of.

I also don't really believe in Heaven and Hell.  I do think that how pleasant your afterlife is may or may not be based on how you lived this life; for instance I think if you die with a chip on your shoulder you will spend some time as a ghost, and if you die in good conscience you'll have more control over what happens to you, but of course that's all speculation.  I don't believe in permanent, fixed place you'll end up in when you die.  But again, as an Agnostic I won't rule anything out.

Actually, heres an idea i've mulled around for some time..

We human beings are ran by our minds, that is where all of our personality and memories are stored.. the brain is the physical element that currently holds our minds, but our actual conciousness is an energy(our entire bodies actually run on electricity), so when a person's body dies maybe the energy detaches from it and moves on? Because we die when our BODY wears out, whos to say that the "non-physical" part of us is worn out as well?

There could actually theoretically be something occupying the same space im in right now, but im not aware of it. Thats because of molecular vibration occuring at different rates(this is one of the theories used in discussing parallel universes)..

They have what is called Kirilian(i think thats the word for it) photography, where they can see a person's "aura".  Some people think we might actualy have several "bodies", but we can only perceive the one that vibrates at the slowest rate(i.e. our physical body).  So maybe what we know of as death is just the physical body dying, but the others move on.

The universe is basically one big keg of energy.. EVERYTHING is energy in one form or another, really(Well the universe did come from an explosion so that makes sense). Think of our brains as like receivers and the universe as radiowaves.. Our brain "receives" everything and then interprets it.. But if the wiring were re-done, who knows what kind of things we'd pick up on we weren't able to before?  Theres a part of physics that says theres actually alot more dimensions to the universe than we are aware of.


This is my theory:

There are two types of energy; material energy and conscious energy.  Conscious energy is ubuitiquous, saturating all existence; you might call it God.  However, when a "mind" forms out of a configuration of material energy (i.e. a body) it causes a body to perceive itself as separate from the main energy (although it's really not: the distinction between you and the ground you stand on is only in your head).  When somebody dies; several things may happen: one, they dissipate into the main God energy and effectively become God (this is what Judeo-Christian-Islamic people see as Heaven, and Buddhists as Nirvana), their soul still contains the memory of the body and they still feel "seperate" from the God-energy (that is, they become a "ghost"), or the piece of God energy that makes them conscious is attracted to a similar flesh form or one that they need to enter to continue their path to Nirvana/complete their "mission" (that is, they reincarnate).

I also think that religious people sort of "fulfil" their afterlife beliefs upon death, but in doing so can never truly reach Nirvana.  If somebody is Christian, for instance, they will be attracted to a "Heaven" realm if they live up to their faith, but it's not the real Heaven that is Nirvana/unity with the God energy.  If they don't live up to their faith, they will be attracted to a "Hell" realm.  The only way to escape these realms is to no longer believe, which at this point is almost impossible.

I don't believe in permanent, fixed place you'll end up in when you die. 


I agree.  I think of it as like maybe being cut loose from a leash(your body) and being free to roam. Also without the attachment to your body you can probably pick up on all of those things you couldn't see or perceive before..


This is my theory:

There are two types of energy; material energy and conscious energy.  Conscious energy is ubuitiquous, saturating all existence; you might call it God.  However, when a "mind" forms out of a configuration of material energy (i.e. a body) it causes a body to perceive itself as separate from the main energy (although it's really not: the distinction between you and the ground you stand on is only in your head).  When somebody dies; several things may happen: one, they dissipate into the main God energy and effectively become God (this is what Judeo-Christian-Islamic people see as Heaven, and Buddhists as Nirvana), their soul still contains the memory of the body and they still feel "seperate" from the God-energy (that is, they become a "ghost"), or the piece of God energy that makes them conscious is attracted to a similar flesh form or one that they need to enter to continue their path to Nirvana/complete their "mission" (that is, they reincarnate).

I also think that religious people sort of "fulfil" their afterlife beliefs upon death, but in doing so can never truly reach Nirvana.  If somebody is Christian, for instance, they will be attracted to a "Heaven" realm if they live up to their faith, but it's not the real Heaven that is Nirvana/unity with the God energy.  If they don't live up to their faith, they will be attracted to a "Hell" realm.  The only way to escape these realms is to no longer believe, which at this point is almost impossible.


A fourth possibility is that it could be like I said, and we have several energy bodies, so maybe when our physical body dies we still exist freely in the universe like we do in this life, but we're just on a different plane of existence/perception.

I agree.  I think of it as like maybe being cut loose from a leash(your body) and being free to roam. Also without the attachment to your body you can probably pick up on all of those things you couldn't see or perceive before..

A fourth possibility is that it could be like I said, and we have several energy bodies, so maybe when our physical body dies we still exist freely in the universe like we do in this life, but we're just on a different plane of existence/perception.


That's definitely also possible.  I think there's basically two "yous", your flesh form and your spirit form.  When you have an OBE, for instance, your spirit form "takes the shape" of your body, because you perceive yourself as skin/fat/muscle/bone entity, and thus also assume that you would look like that if you left your body.  When you die, you're simply stripped of your flesh form and continue another existence.  I don't think it's possible to "not exist"; which not only means that you won't die, but that you existed even before you were born.

That's definitely also possible.  I think there's basically two "yous", your flesh form and your spirit form.  When you have an OBE, for instance, your spirit form "takes the shape" of your body, because you perceive yourself as skin/fat/muscle/bone entity, and thus also assume that you would look like that if you left your body.  When you die, you're simply stripped of your flesh form and continue another existence.  I don't think it's possible to "not exist"; which not only means that you won't die, but that you existed even before you were born.


Well, you could call it a "spirit", but its energy..

Interestngly, some people have claimed they had 360 degree vision during an OBE.

I've TRIED to have an out of body experience many times, to no avail.

OBEs done intentionally are called "astral projection".

I suffer from a condition called sleep paralysis where sometimes I'll awake during REM(rapid eye movement- i.e. dreaming) and theres a delay between my mind waking up, and my body coming out of the REM state.  You see, when we dream, our body paralyzes itself.  So when this happens I wake up but i cant move or anything and I also experience hallucinations, because what makes our body paralyzed during this time is seratonin(your body releases more of it in REM).

Anyway one night i was in paralysis, and i tried to sit up, and oddly enough i could FEEL myself sitting up even though I knew my body was still lying down, and as I did it I could hear a static or like a tearing kind of noise, and it scared me cause i realized what was happening, so I let myself go, and I could feel myself going back down but it was slow like I was floating back down, and I felt like a pressure as I hit the bed again. 

Later on AFTER it happened I read OBE/projection reports and in some of them people mentioned hearing a similar noise when seperating from their body.

So ever since I've been kind of obsessed with projecting.. the b!tch is now I never have paralysis anymore.  If I do have it again though, I'm definitely going to try seperating



Well yeah, by "spirit" I mean the bit of conscious energy that makes you aware.

You mean they could see 360 degrees of sight?  ???


Yeah

I've TRIED to have an out of body experience many times, to no avail.

OBEs done intentionally are called "astral projection".

I suffer from a condition called sleep paralysis where sometimes I'll awake during REM(rapid eye movement- i.e. dreaming) and theres a delay between my mind waking up, and my body coming out of the REM state.  You see, when we dream, our body paralyzes itself.  So when this happens I wake up but i cant move or anything and I also experience hallucinations, because what makes our body paralyzed during this time is seratonin(your body releases more of it in REM).

Anyway one night i was in paralysis, and i tried to sit up, and oddly enough i could FEEL myself sitting up even though I knew my body was still lying down, and as I did it I could hear a static or like a tearing kind of noise, and it scared me cause i realized what was happening, so I let myself go, and I could feel myself going back down but it was slow like I was floating back down, and I felt like a pressure as I hit the bed again. 

Later on AFTER it happened I read OBE/projection reports and in some of them people mentioned hearing a similar noise when seperating from their body.

So ever since I've been kind of obsessed with projecting.. the b!tch is now I never have paralysis anymore.  If I do have it again though, I'm definitely going to try seperating


Yeah


So if you watch Taken and then got into a bout of sleep paralysis, would you see gray guys near your bed?

So if you watch Taken and then got into a bout of sleep paralysis, would you see gray guys near your bed?


I don't know what you mean..

I've never seen anything like that though.  when I'm in paralysis, it feels like my head is underwater, I can often hear this rushing kind of noise like a train or something, and sometimes nondistinct voices.. by hallucination i didn't necessarily mean seeing something thats not there.  There are auditory hallucinations too.

I don't know what you mean..

I've never seen anything like that though.  when I'm in paralysis, it feels like my head is underwater, I can often hear this rushing kind of noise like a train or something, and sometimes nondistinct voices.. by hallucination i didn't necessarily mean seeing something thats not there.  There are auditory hallucinations too.


I definitely know what you mean.  Have you ever like "heard" a voice, that didn't sound like "noise" but was very clear?

I always get freaked out too, I go into a state of panic, because I get the feeling like theres a malevolent presence in the room with me..

One time I had it on my stomach and i SWORE i could feel someone lay down on my bed next to me, but i couldn't turn my head and look because of the paralysis.


I definitely know what you mean.  Have you ever like "heard" a voice, that didn't sound like "noise" but was very clear?


Yeah.  sometimes I hear that when I'm in that stage inbetween being asleep and awake(which is also when I feel myself fall sometimes).

I always get freaked out too, I go into a state of panic, because I get the feeling like theres a malevolent presence in the room with me..

One time I had it on my stomach and i SWORE i could feel someone lay down on my bed next to me, but i couldn't turn my head and look because of the paralysis.

Yeah.  sometimes I hear that when I'm in that stage inbetween being asleep and awake(which is also when I feel myself fall sometimes).


Yeah exactly. It's kind of odd, it's like telepathy.  Do you think these voices are real or illusions?

Yeah exactly. It's kind of odd, it's like telepathy.  Do you think these voices are real or illusions?


Are you familiar with the video game "Final Fantasy VII"? I mention it because one of the characters in it- Aries, was a descendant of the Ancients, and she had telepathic abilities.  Anyway she always talked about her ability to "listen to the planet" and she said sometimes it got frustrating because she could hear a lot of different voices talking at once- it was everyone in the world.  Thats what it makes me think about..

Interestingly enough alot of the plot of the game had to do with "Mako energy" which is being harvested by an evil corporation called Shinra, and the characters find out that Mako is actually the energy of life(its explained in a way thats similar to what we were just talking about with the whole universe being powered by an energy), and that if the Shinra continued sucking it all up, the planet would eventually die. The man who tells them about mako said that when people die, they return to the mako stream.

That game was incredibly philosophical for a video game. 98% of them are mindless, but it seemed to actually have a message. (as well as the spiritual stuff, the game seemed to have an anti-corporate and enviromentalist tone)

I agree that atheism is a belief system.  Technically, it's not a "religion", because it's not practiced, but hardcore atheism is a belief because you feel certain that there's no God.  Agnosticism is closer to being totally without beliefs.  I'm a "softcore atheist".  I doubt the monotheistic God is real, although I don't totally deny it because it's not proven that he doesnt, but I do think it's logical to think that there's a creative force.



I always felt I was somewhere between agnosticism and atheism.  I don't believe in the monotheistic idea God, but I don't deny spirituality either.  I think one can be spiritual without being religious.

Are you familiar with the video game "Final Fantasy VII"? I mention it because one of the characters in it- Aries, was a descendant of the Ancients, and she had telepathic abilities.  Anyway she always talked about her ability to "listen to the planet" and she said sometimes it got frustrating because she could hear a lot of different voices talking at once- it was everyone in the world.  Thats what it makes me think about..

Interestingly enough alot of the plot of the game had to do with "Mako energy" which is being harvested by an evil corporation called Shinra, and the characters find out that Mako is actually the energy of life(its explained in a way thats similar to what we were just talking about with the whole universe being powered by an energy), and that if the Shinra continued sucking it all up, the planet would eventually die. The man who tells them about mako said that when people die, they return to the mako stream.

That game was incredibly philosophical for a video game. 98% of them are mindless, but it seemed to actually have a message. (as well as the spiritual stuff, the game seemed to have an anti-corporate and enviromentalist tone)


That's really interesting.  Is it like becoming Bruce Almighty?  ;D



I always felt I was somewhere between agnosticism and atheism.  I don't believe in the monotheistic idea God, but I don't deny spirituality either.  I think one can be spiritual without being religious.


I agree.

So THAT'S what that's called.  This happens to me at least once a month and everytime I've tried to explain it to people, they say that I'm still asleep and just dreaming it....which, in a way, I guess I am, but usually when it happens, hubby is getting ready for work and I can "see" him, but can't say anything, and can tell you details like what he's wearing, what he was doing, etc.. :-\\


You're definitely not just dreaming, no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

You're definitely not just dreaming, no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis


Do you see the disorder as a gateway, a cripple, or both?

Straight women are also "patrons of the penis."


True. But as far as I know, Donnie Darko, the member I used in the example, is a dude. I've also heard him say he was 100% straight. So that may be insulting to him. Just an example.

If saying I don't like a religion is bad, then I am horrible because I don't like ANY religion! :D

I believe in God... but I don't believe in all the rules that religions impose on their followers.  I will eat meat on Friday if I feel like it, thankyouverymuch. :P

Atheism IS a "religion", like it or not.  The second definition of "religion" in my Webster's New World Dictionary is:  a)any specific system of belief, worship, conduct, etc. often involving a code of ethics and a philosophy. b)any system of beliefs, practices, ethical values, etc. 

Atheism is *not* a religion: it is simply the belief that there are no such things as gods - no code of ethics or philosophy required.  That a lot of atheists do have ethics does not make it a "religion".

You wouldn't consider belief that there is no Santa Claus to be a religion?  Or a belief that there are no fairies at the bottom of your garden a religion?  That's the basic atheistic position: of itself there are no "religious" trappings whatsoever.

I wouldn't say I don't like a religion unless I had tried it and then maybe I could make that statement, but I'd be more apt to say I disagree with or don't believe what the religion teaches or practices.
I don't believe atheism is a religion but some are more dedicated to propelling their beliefs than others just like some religious do. I think atheists simply believe there is not or can not be a god, but they have no more proof of that than someone that believes there is a god or supreme creator/being. It's impossible for an atheist to know there is no God, since they would have to have complete and total infinite knowledge to know that. and guess who they would be if they had that kind of knowledge  ;) so it's all what you believe, but that's no reason to dislike a religion unless harm has been done. But like or dislike whatever you want. It's freedom baby, yeah  8)

too some atheists it may very well be a religion, and atheism does meet some of the dictionary defintions, especially the organized groups that have their beliefs, and agendas on their websites. Very interesting info

You also can't forget that some atheists call atheism a "religion" when it suits their purposes. ...  I also believe that some atheist groups have tried to get tax-exempt status for being a religion.  I could be wrong on that, though.

I'm not surprised: if you give tax breaks to religious groups, don't be surprised if non-religious ones try and get the same benefit.  It is basically dishonest of them, though...

My take on all this atheism business:

Athiesm, kinda like Buddhism, (true) Satanism, and some other "religions", actually aren't religions. A religion is, as I define it, one's beliefs about our creation, moral standards, destruction, and such. Atheism is a school of thought, which teaches ("Develop your own ethical code, there's no God to set it up for you")... just how Buddhism teaches "be free from desire" and Satanism teaches "enjoy your life without harming those who do not deserve it"... they, unlike religion, don't use a god or group of gods to do so.

My take on all this atheism business:

Athiesm, kinda like Buddhism, (true) Satanism, and some other "religions", actually aren't religions. A religion is, as I define it, one's beliefs about our creation, moral standards, destruction, and such. Atheism is a school of thought, which teaches ("Develop your own ethical code, there's no God to set it up for you")... just how Buddhism teaches "be free from desire" and Satanism teaches "enjoy your life without harming those who do not deserve it"... they, unlike religion, don't use a god or group of gods to do so.


Please, explain Satanism to me. 

Please, explain Satanism to me. 


Well, it's better to visit their site.. true Satanists (followers of Anton LaVey, not the Gothic Satanists, who are few in number, and are not affiliated with true Satanism at all, they've even been denounced by the real Satanists) believe that there is no god, and we should live a life dedicated to our own enjoyment.. so long as we don't hurt the innocent. We should be genuine, live life to the fullest, and embrace everything that makes us human (unlike Christianity, which instructs you to become "Christ-like", an unattainable goal).

Check their site for more.

Well, it's better to visit their site.. true Satanists (followers of Anton LaVey, not the Gothic Satanists, who are few in number, and are not affiliated with true Satanism at all, they've even been denounced by the real Satanists) believe that there is no god, and we should live a life dedicated to our own enjoyment.. so long as we don't hurt the innocent. We should be genuine, live life to the fullest, and embrace everything that makes us human (unlike Christianity, which instructs you to become "Christ-like", an unattainable goal).

Check their site for more.


Okay, but here's a question: if we're all gonna become dust, what's the point of protecting the innocent?  What's in it for you?  Because let's face it, everybody ultimately works for themself.  Everything deep down has a selfish motive, even compassion is a form of selfishness.

Okay, but here's a question: if we're all gonna become dust, what's the point of protecting the innocent?  What's in it for you?  Because let's face it, everybody ultimately works for themself.  Everything deep down has a selfish motive, even compassion is a form of selfishness.


Protecting the innocent is in itself selfish, for if you do that then that in turn brings you protection.

Okay, but here's a question: if we're all gonna become dust, what's the point of protecting the innocent?  What's in it for you?  Because let's face it, everybody ultimately works for themself.  Everything deep down has a selfish motive, even compassion is a form of selfishness.


They don't say protect.. they say don't harm. If someone doesn't wrong you, don't kick their ass. If they do, by all means, commence ass-kicking.

They don't say protect.. they say don't harm. If someone doesn't wrong you, don't kick their ass. If they do, by all means, commence ass-kicking.


I see.  That makes sense to me.

Buddhism is the true religion of "personal responsibility." You reap what you sow. I think the Buddhist wisdom that it is one's ego and one's earthly desires that end up making us miserable is a message desperately needed in America. This born again Christian jazz seems to be no good for us at all. Rich people developed so-called Christian fundamentalism in the early 20th century in order to duck out of the "good works" clause required in Catholicism and main-stream Protestantism. Rich folks wanted the salvation and righteousness without the mandate they be decent human beings. Christian fundamentalism has become the la cosa nostra of greed and bigotry in the U.S. since it hit its stride in the 1970s. Mainstream Protestantism let the Southern white establishment down whith Dr. King and the civil rights movement. It took Ronald Reagan to harness fundamentalism's political potential. After all, Reagan started his 1980 campaign in Mississippi on a "states' rights" platform, and he himself spoke of "end times" and put fundamentalist whackjobs, such as interior secretary James Watt, in his cabinet. Come to think of it, Watt was a preview of coming attractions for the Dubya administration!

Anyway, I think "Satanism" is a crock. Once Anton LaVey and the other screwballs cleaned up its image enough to make it socially palatable, what they had was no longer Satanism, but New Age paganism-meets-Hugh Hefner! Literally...LaVey was a frequent guest at the Playboy mansion. Basically, it was Hedonism mixed with Ayn Rand, and a "don't hurt nobody" disclaimer.

The real "Satanist" groups out there, such as "The Temple of Set," and "The Order of the Nine Angles" get all mixed up in hedonism, white supremecy, and the kind of costume thing I call "comic book Satanism" in which they dress up in hooded black robes, celebrate "black mass," and stage dumb orgies. Remember the Illuminati masked ball scene in "Eyes Wide Shut"? Comic book Satanism is kind of like that, only it's practiced by goth geeks for whom D&D and Star Trek didn't hold enough charge!
::)

Don't ask me why, but this and your sig line "dancers" just made me giggle...applause for making me laugh at 7:11 am ;)


Oh, of course, everyone loves the Postwhore Dance!  :D

Oh, of course, everyone loves the Postwhore Dance!  :D


;D

I call "comic book Satanism" in which they dress up in hooded black robes, ...


Come to the dark side...

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/star_wars__episode_iii__revenge_of_the_sith/hayden_christensen/wars.jpg