I do not want to offend anyone by this thread...it's just something that I have been pondering about for some time now, and I was curious to hear your opinions on the matter.


It seems like if you are a white female that happens to be overweight....you tend to get less respect than lets say an overweight female who happens to be of a different race, etc.

One example that I can think of....on the TV show, "American Idol" there have been a few heavyset black females (Frenchy, Kim Locke, and currently, Mandisa)....and they have had very little come against them concerning their weight....however, I remember on a few seasons back there was one girl auditioning, who happened to be white, and a tiny bit overweight...and there were comments galore about how she needed to lose weight in order to make it further, etc..

Why is is that some people seem to be accepted more being overweight than others?  Does anyone else see this or is it in my mind?

No it's not.  I have noticed it too.

It seems to be that it is easier for overweight women to make it in the dating world than overweight guys.  Overweight women can be seen as voluptuos.  Us guys?  We got nuthin'. 

No it's not.  I have noticed it too.

It seems to be that it is easier for overweight women to make it in the dating world than overweight guys.  Overweight women can be seen as voluptuos.  Us guys?  We got nuthin'. 



now, when I was in high school it was just the opposite for me. I was always considered on the chubby side...and I never had a real boyfriend in high school...but I remember there were plenty of hefty guys...who had no problem getting (usually thin, attractive) girls to date them. I guess it was a matter of their social status...you see, a lot of the guys who were "fat"....ended up playing football, therefore, ending up more popular than many....however, us people who didn't happen to play a sport, etc...were on the lower end of the spectrum when it came to popularity.  I was very involved in choir/theater...etc..but even those activities favored people of a certain physical stature.

Well the last few years it's become a lot more socially acceptable for women to be overweight, and there are more people who are "thick women" enthusiasts.  Ever heard the term BBW?

But I just don't see the same thing with us men.

Well the last few years it's become a lot more socially acceptable for women to be overweight, and there are more people who are "thick women" enthusiasts.  Ever heard the term BBW?

But I just don't see the same thing with us men.



Yes....I know that there are men out there that prefer BBW....but I do know of a few couples (personally) where the man is very large and the woman is very tiny.  It's nice when someone gives a person a chance, even if they don't happen to possess the "ideal" body.

It's much easier for black women to be heavy and zaftig than it is for white women, because being zaftig is a traditional beauty standard for African-American women. For white girls, it's harder, and for non-athletic white guys, it's the hardest. I myself used to be fairly overweight about four years back, went to being underweight, and now I'm normalish weight...and I'm a nonathletic gay, white guy. Also, I live in a part of the country where obesity isn't as common as it is, in say, Nebraska or Texas (88% of obesity in the U.S. is in the red states), so I definitely felt like I stood out being overweight. It's also more of a "European" thing to be zaftig. Like there are some Italian and Jewish girls in my school who are zaftig, but they're darker-skinned, very tan, so they still get alot of action and are considered very desirable. Maybe being zaftig and pale is harder. I know it's generally acceptable to be curvy in Italian culture.

I have noticed that about America's Next Top Model, Erin...ALL the plus-sizers are black.

What is zaftig? ???

What is zaftig? ???




Full, voluptuous. With curves.

Ah.

Well, I hope I don't step on anyone's toes, but it SEEMS like black women tend to be more shapely than white women in the first place.  So maybe that's the difference, you know? Perhaps white women tend to be less shapely when overweight.

It's REALLY hard for guys though.  Guys aren't supposed to be curvy.  So being overweight can't do anything but hurt..

Ah.

Well, I hope I don't step on anyone's toes, but it SEEMS like black women tend to be more shapely than white women in the first place.  So maybe that's the difference, you know? Perhaps white women tend to be less shapely when overweight.

It's REALLY hard for guys though.  Guys aren't supposed to be curvy.  So being overweight can't do anything but hurt..




black women also tend to have more self-esteem, even when they are heavy-set.  Sometimes I envy the self-esteem they have....they are proud to be big and beautiful.

Ah.

Well, I hope I don't step on anyone's toes, but it SEEMS like black women tend to be more shapely than white women in the first place.  So maybe that's the difference, you know? Perhaps white women tend to be less shapely when overweight.

It's REALLY hard for guys though.  Guys aren't supposed to be curvy.  So being overweight can't do anything but hurt..


Yeah, that's definitely true. Or middle-American, No. European white women, anyway, you'll find very shapely Italian, Jewish, Greek, and Portuguese overweight women.

Yeah, it's very hard to be an overweight guy. I know how that feels...the way I lost weight was essentially eating small meals and exercising at first, and then going on a diet (less food, not different food) and taking long walks in the heat later.

That's one thing I was going to say.  I think alot of it has to do with the way you view yourself.  If you are constantly obsessing about being overweight, then you are not going to be seen as favorably as someone who has no problem with it.  A few hundred years ago, being heavy was seen as a status symbol....it basically meant that you had the wealth to be able to eat well.  And, for women, it also meant that you had people to do things for you, you didn't have to do them yourself....it was the "servants" who were thin and muscular because they were the ones doing the work.  Then, around Victorian times, the thought process changed and small waists were seen as beautiful, and many who could not afford the expensive corsets would "fake" it by losing weight, thus showing their strength and willpower and boosting their social status.  As society became more accepting of women actually "doing" things, one sign of strength was the ability to "control" your size.  That thought process still reigns today.  Okay, enough history ;)

I think alot of how you are perceived is also how you dress.  If you dress in oversized shirts and baggy pants, you are going to be seen negatively, no matter how big or small you are.


I totally agree with that...I know girls who are overweight but dress stylishly, like they love their body, and they come off 10x better than the overweight girls who don't.

No it's not.  I have noticed it too.

It seems to be that it is easier for overweight women to make it in the dating world than overweight guys.  Overweight women can be seen as voluptuos.  Us guys?  We got nuthin'. 
That ain't true at all, man. Granted, I've probably lost close to 30 lbs in the last 5 months, but even before that, when I was pushing 250 I didn't have much trouble meeting women. Women in general are more focused on personality than looks, and I know plently of overweight guys who have no problem getting dates. I still have a good case of the "dicky-doo disease" going on, but that hasn't stopped me.

That ain't true at all, man. Granted, I've probably lost close to 30 lbs in the last 5 months, but even before that, when I was pushing 250 I didn't have much trouble meeting women. Women in general are more focused on personality than looks, and I know plently of overweight guys who have no problem getting dates. I still have a good case of the "dicky-doo disease" going on, but that hasn't stopped me.


Also, you live in Nebraska, where it's probably more socially acceptable.

Also, you live in Nebraska, where it's probably more socially acceptable.
1.) I don't live in Nebraska anymore.

2.) I don't know where you get that stereotype from, but it's not like everyone in Nebraska is walking around looking like Fat Bastard, and I think that if you went out there you'd probably find that the obesity rate is probably no greater than where you're from (N.J., is it? I've been to Jersey and I've seen plenty of overweight people there.)
  However, I have noticed a greater rate of obesity in the Southern states (Tennessee especially).

Also, you live in Nebraska, where it's probably more socially acceptable.


Being a mid-westerner I must ask.

How did you come to these conclusions?

Fat is fat, and no matter what color you are, it's not healthy.  I've battled weight issues all my life, and when I hear people say "Oh big is beautiful", I say "Yeah, well is heart disease, diabetes and hypertension beautiful too?"

1.) I don't live in Nebraska anymore.

2.) I don't know where you get that stereotype from, but it's not like everyone in Nebraska is walking around looking like Fat Bastard, and I think that if you went out there you'd probably find that the obesity rate is probably no greater than where you're from (N.J., is it? I've been to Jersey and I've seen plenty of overweight people there.)
  However, I have noticed a greater rate of obesity in the Southern states (Tennessee especially).


Sorry, I get this impression from some people I've known from the Midwest (inc. Nebraska), that more people there tend to be overweight, especially in rural areas, but this applies for rural areas everywhere. I'm also sorry for saying you still live in Nebraska...I forgot you now live in MO.

Sorry, I get this impression from some people I've known from the Midwest (inc. Nebraska), that more people there tend to be overweight, especially in rural areas, but this applies for rural areas everywhere. I'm also sorry for saying you still live in Nebraska...I forgot you now live in MO.



No offense taken, I'm still a Nebraskan at heart.  :)

Sometimes I get a little irritated with this whole "red state-blue state" thing, though. I think it's one of the most poisonous and divisive ideas ever pushed forth on the American people. The whole thing smacks of "divide and conquer" to me. Last time I checked, we were still one country.

No offense taken, I'm still a Nebraskan at heart.  :)

Sometimes I get a little irritated with this whole "red state-blue state" thing, though. I think it's one of the most poisonous and divisive ideas ever pushed forth on the American people. The whole thing smacks of "divide and conquer" to me. Last time I checked, we were still one country.


Yeah, there really isn't that much division, overall. I think it's a product of Reaganomics policies...the real division is between the ex-Confederacy and the rest of the country, though even that isn't so huge, in areas. But things are pretty different down there.

That's one thing I was going to say.  I think alot of it has to do with the way you view yourself.  If you are constantly obsessing about being overweight, then you are not going to be seen as favorably as someone who has no problem with it.  A few hundred years ago, being heavy was seen as a status symbol....it basically meant that you had the wealth to be able to eat well.  And, for women, it also meant that you had people to do things for you, you didn't have to do them yourself....it was the "servants" who were thin and muscular because they were the ones doing the work.  Then, around Victorian times, the thought process changed and small waists were seen as beautiful, and many who could not afford the expensive corsets would "fake" it by losing weight, thus showing their strength and willpower and boosting their social status.  As society became more accepting of women actually "doing" things, one sign of strength was the ability to "control" your size.  That thought process still reigns today.  Okay, enough history ;)

I think alot of how you are perceived is also how you dress.  If you dress in oversized shirts and baggy pants, you are going to be seen negatively, no matter how big or small you are.

Edited.  Yeah think Rubenesque women in paintings, they are stunning.

Anyways I blame todays modern culture and the explosion of fashion ideals, plus the fact that there are neverending images of stick thin freaks women constantly paraded on TV and in mags  purporting the 'ideal' image.
No wonder cases of anorexia and eating disorders are rife in the poor youngsters, and increasingly older women, who feel they have to live up to the same phony image  of the Vogue catwalk Modelll, or they just don't cut it.  

Edited.  Yeah think Rubenesque women in paintings, they are stunning.

Anyways I blame todays modern culture and the explosion of fashion ideals, plus the fact that there are neverending images of stick thin freaks women constantly paraded on TV and in mags  purporting the 'ideal' image.
No wonder cases of anorexia and eating disorders are rife in the poor youngsters, and increasingly older women, who feel they have to live up to the same phony image  of the Vogue catwalk Modelll, or they just don't cut it. 


It's probably best to be somewhere in the middle, not too heavy but not too skinny. In other words, healthy:  :) .

Yeah, there really isn't that much division, overall. I think it's a product of Reaganomics policies...the real division is between the ex-Confederacy and the rest of the country, though even that isn't so huge, in areas. But things are pretty different down there.
Oh yes, indeed there are quite pronounced differences between regions of the United States. I've been fortunate enough to get to almost all of the lower 48 states, and I think that one of the things that makes America great is its diversity. But the "red state-blue state" thing has a kind of "us vs. them" mentality behind it, and I think that's bad for the country. But that's a subject for another thread.

It's probably best to be somewhere in the middle, not too heavy but not too skinny. In other words, healthy:  :) .


I agree, and personally I think you gotta keep some sort of fitness thing going, doesn't have to be extreme - as you say, even walking is enough to keep metabolism ticking over. The long winter months has meant I've been mainly sedentary (can't be arsed to go the gym with the poseurs in lycra)  but I feel lousy as a result.
Can't wait for the lovely light nights and fine weather so I can go out biking and climbing again.
It's strange how inactivity has an effect on the psyche too, but that's just me. SAD.   ;D ;D   No I don't mean sad!!

now, when I was in high school it was just the opposite for me. I was always considered on the chubby side...and I never had a real boyfriend in high school...but I remember there were plenty of hefty guys...who had no problem getting (usually thin, attractive) girls to date them.


this could be evolutionary. women tend to go for what they percieve to be the big bad "Alpha Male"

1.) I don't live in Nebraska anymore.

2.) I don't know where you get that stereotype from, but it's not like everyone in Nebraska is walking around looking like Fat Bastard, and I think that if you went out there you'd probably find that the obesity rate is probably no greater than where you're from (N.J., is it? I've been to Jersey and I've seen plenty of overweight people there.)
   However, I have noticed a greater rate of obesity in the Southern states (Tennessee especially).


We were in Philadelphia a couple of years ago and were totally blown away by the amount of morbidly obsese people in the City centre..some so heavy they could barely walk. Sometimes I wonder if it's todays lifestyles and culture that play a major part...not to mention the sheer amount of fast food joints!  There are 4 on the same street in Brighton.


I'm really curious to know now what Red and Blue areas of the country mean??

That's one thing I was going to say.  I think alot of it has to do with the way you view yourself.  If you are constantly obsessing about being overweight, then you are not going to be seen as favorably as someone who has no problem with it.  A few hundred years ago, being heavy was seen as a status symbol....it basically meant that you had the wealth to be able to eat well.  And, for women, it also meant that you had people to do things for you, you didn't have to do them yourself....it was the "servants" who were thin and muscular because they were the ones doing the work.  Then, around Victorian times, the thought process changed and small waists were seen as beautiful, and many who could not afford the expensive corsets would "fake" it by losing weight, thus showing their strength and willpower and boosting their social status.  As society became more accepting of women actually "doing" things, one sign of strength was the ability to "control" your size.  That thought process still reigns today.  Okay, enough history ;)

I think alot of how you are perceived is also how you dress.  If you dress in oversized shirts and baggy pants, you are going to be seen negatively, no matter how big or small you are.
I have started not to listen to all the names I get called by people who judge me by my size...But secretly I've often felt like telling those people to stick it where the sun don't shine. Yes I have lost weight. I think one of society's problems is while they tell people to stop eating certain foods, go on a diet, have willpower,etc...many folks don't think there's such a thing as compulsive overeating or food addiction. Also, the 'thin ideal' is so pounded into girls' and young women's heads...which contributes to low self esteem, which progresses into both bulimia and anorexia nervosa..

We were in Philadelphia a couple of years ago and were totally blown away by the amount of morbidly obsese people in the City centre..some so heavy they could barely walk. Sometimes I wonder if it's todays lifestyles and culture that play a major part...not to mention the sheer amount of fast food joints!  There are 4 on the same street in Brighton.


I'm really curious to know now what Red and Blue areas of the country mean??



You don't see that many morbidly obese people out walking...that I know...I also know northern Europe as a whole has something of an obesity problem.

The "red states" are those that voted for Bush in the 2004 election. They include Texas, the whole South (Maryland and Delaware don't count, Florida do), the Southwest (New Mexico, Utah, Colorado), the Rocky Mountains, the Great Plains, Ohio (except for Cleveland, which is sort of blue), and Indiana. The "blue states" are those that voted for Kerry in the 2004 election. They include the Mid-Atlantic (Maryland, Delaware, Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York), the New England states, the West Coast (California, Oregon, Washington), and the more urbanized Midwestern states like Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota, and Wisconsin, and also the Cleveland part of Ohio. The stereotype goes that the red states are less educated, more religious, more homogenous, more rural, and have lower incomes, while the blue states are more diverse, educated, urbanized, and higher-income. Also, red states are largely overwhelmingly Protestant and blue states are mostly Catholic, with lots of Jews. However, the whole thing is pretty divisive.

You don't see that many morbidly obese people out walking...that I know...I also know northern Europe as a whole has something of an obesity problem.

The "red states" are those that voted for Bush in the 2004 election. They include Texas, the whole South (Maryland and Delaware don't count, Florida do), the Southwest (New Mexico, Utah, Colorado), the Rocky Mountains, the Great Plains, Ohio (except for Cleveland, which is sort of blue), and Indiana. The "blue states" are those that voted for Kerry in the 2004 election. They include the Mid-Atlantic (Maryland, Delaware, Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York), the New England states, the West Coast (California, Oregon, Washington), and the more urbanized Midwestern states like Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota, and Wisconsin, and also the Cleveland part of Ohio. The stereotype goes that the red states are less educated, more religious, more homogenous, more rural, and have lower incomes, while the blue states are more diverse, educated, urbanized, and higher-income. Also, red states are largely overwhelmingly Protestant and blue states are mostly Catholic, with lots of Jews. However, the whole thing is pretty divisive.


Wow, thanks so much for that definition. I've really enjoyed reading the posts and information in this thread.

Fat is fat, and no matter what color you are, it's not healthy.  I've battled weight issues all my life, and when I hear people say "Oh big is beautiful", I say "Yeah, well is heart disease, diabetes and hypertension beautiful too?"
Look, do you think that food addicts don't try to lose weight? I really have a hard time with it. So many people think fat is ugly. I have been to eating disorder clinics, they teach people healthy habits, but they also work with the causes of compulsive overeating, which can come from low self-esteem, depression, and self-hatred...they taught me to be comfortable in my own skin...One has to honestly have decent self-esteem before they can deal with overeating issues.

Look, do you think that food addicts don't try to lose weight? I really have a hard time with it. So many people think fat is ugly. I have been to eating disorder clinics, they teach people healthy habits, but they also work with the causes of compulsive overeating, which can come from low self-esteem, depression, and self-hatred...they taught me to be comfortable in my own skin...One has to honestly have decent self-esteem before they can deal with overeating issues.


But doesn't healthy self-esteem come from feeling good about yourself?  It sounds like a vicious circle to me.
Personally I don't think obesity is ugly - it's just plain unhealthy.

But doesn't healthy self-esteem come from feeling good about yourself?  It sounds like a vicious circle to me.
Personally I don't think obesity is ugly - it's just plain unhealthy.
The problem with people like me who have an eating disorder is that some of us have had trauma and upheaval in our lives as well as being physically, emotionally, or sexually abused(I am a survivor of sexual assault)...and that robs some people of self-esteem...But unless one has been through that type of trauma, there's no way one can really understand how much is taken away by the attacker(s)...I still have nightmares about what happened...but yes I'm in counseling. The vicious cycle started for me when I was attacked by two men who each took a turn hurting me. And I was left in the cold night with nothing but the clothes on my back...I was only thirteen.

The problem with people like me who have an eating disorder is that some of us have had trauma and upheaval in our lives as well as being physically, emotionally, or sexually abused(I am a survivor of sexual assault)...and that robs some people of self-esteem...But unless one has been through that type of trauma, there's no way one can really understand how much is taken away by the attacker(s)...I still have nightmares about what happened...but yes I'm in counseling. The vicious cycle started for me when I was attacked by two men who each took a turn hurting me. And I was left in the cold night with nothing but the clothes on my back...I was only thirteen.


Yeah, my mom was attacked and almost raped when she was twelve, and right after that her anorexia started...alot of times, something like that starts an eating disorder.

Just a hypotethical, if you knew a REALLY fat person, who geniunely seemed to have no dietary sense at all, would you raise the subject with him/her? My mum (who's a doctor) thinks she's doing them a service, but I don't know. I mean, are there actually people who don't know how to lose weight? I think most of them have heard it all before...but you never know, they might just need the encouragement and geniune support of just one person...

The problem with people like me who have an eating disorder is that some of us have had trauma and upheaval in our lives as well as being physically, emotionally, or sexually abused(I am a survivor of sexual assault)...and that robs some people of self-esteem...But unless one has been through that type of trauma, there's no way one can really understand how much is taken away by the attacker(s)...I still have nightmares about what happened...but yes I'm in counseling. The vicious cycle started for me when I was attacked by two men who each took a turn hurting me. And I was left in the cold night with nothing but the clothes on my back...I was only thirteen.


Hi, I was really shocked to read your post this morning and thought it best to wait to think of an appropriate reply.
It's cool if you're getting good psychological counselling to help you deal with those terrible and traumatic events that happened to you. Clearly you will need time to work through stuff like that. Sincere good wishes with your psychological recovery.

I think it is all in the attitude. I've been overweight all my life (with one little break a couple of years ago), and have always had a low self-esteem....then I lost weight. Not enough to constitute being skinny, but enough that my self-esteem went through the roof. I became more confident, I wore tasteful (sometimes sexy) clothes, and I carried myself with ease. And yes, I had a lot of dates and stuff after that. It was cool. ;D

But now I've had a kid and I'm married...and the weight came back. I'm trying to lose it again, but it is extremely hard. I'll get it though. And I still ooze confidence. I just need to lose some weight so I can fit into my old clothes and not have to buy new ones. :D

About the health thing...yes, sometimes it is true that people need to lose weight for their health, but not all the time. At my last doctor's appointment my blood pressure was better than my mom's, my heart was perfectly normal, and there is no sign of diabetes. I think you have to factor in what people eat before making assumptions that fat=unhealthy and skinny=healthy.

I've noticed that people who are overweight and have self confidence are treated with alot more respect than those who act depressed or self-conscious.  You could probably say the same for people who wear glasses, braces, etc.

I also think that the standard of "slim" is ridiculous.  Remember Calista Flockhart??  UGH!!  I would never in my life want to be like that.  I think that when people aren't stick thin like the models they see on TV, they consider themselves fat, when they're not fat at all.

I can totally understand people who don't want to go on a diet, too... I've been lucky in that whatever I eat, my weight stays pretty much the same.  (I have a mild eating disorder which I think actually helps me in that area)  I don't expect to have this luck forever though, and I know I will probably let myself gain weight before I give up the foods I want to eat.  I guess I'm more about enjoying the good things in life than I am about becoming a health nut so I can live in a nursing home till the ripe age of 100. 8)