i really don't have much to add, i was just dying to use that line.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-bk-march022506,0,2631859.story?track=mostemailedlink

very messed up news day. church shooting, this, 1300 dead in iraq, and that psycho lady who mutilated her baby and then was arrested singing hymns gets a hung jury.

world's going nuts! i sure am glad i can leave any time i want, i tell ya.

***

Fights break out at Orlando neo-Nazi rally
Police arrest 17 people

April Hunt | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted February 25, 2006, 8:38 PM EST


  E-mail this article
  Printer friendly version
  Most e-mailed articles
  News on your cell

PHOTO GALLERY
Neo-Nazi march in Orlando
Neo-Nazi march in Orlando

RELATED STORIES
Calm urged as neo-Nazis set to march
Feb 23, 2006

More than 500 counter-protesters held back by 300 police officers drowned out the message of a neo-Nazi group that marched through Orlando's historic black Parramore neighborhood Saturday.

Twenty-two members of the National Socialist Movement, some wearing khaki uniforms with swastika armbands, finished their march with a rally outside the federal courthouse that could not be heard over the jeering crowd.

Orlando Centroplex
The group shut down the rally 90 minutes early and left town.

Seventeen people were arrested, all of them from the crowd kept separated from the neo-Nazis by lines of police in riot gear. Police and civic leaders expressed pride that the event ended without the violence some had feared.

so, question -- if this is an american offshoot of the original nazi party, does the "national" in "national socialist" refer to america, or to 1930s-40s germany? i find this very confusing. it's radical right-wing nationalism, but the nation in question is almost entirely unclear.

so, question -- if this is an american offshoot of the original nazi party, does the "national" in "national socialist" refer to america, or to 1930s-40s germany? i find this very confusing. it's radical right-wing nationalism, but the nation in question is almost entirely unclear.


Pertains to the nation in which it is being practised.

Silly Liberal.

Pertains to the nation in which it is being practised.

Silly Liberal.
so any nation that you happen to be living in wins your undying, right-arm-thrust-out screaming shaved-headed devotion, simply by virtue of being the nation you live in? kinda any-port-in-a-storm, no?

I don't like where this is all heading, it scares me.

I don't like where this is all heading, it scares me.
what, this thread? or current events in general?

so any nation that you happen to be living in wins your undying, right-arm-thrust-out screaming shaved-headed devotion, simply by virtue of being the nation you live in? kinda any-port-in-a-storm, no?


Simple simple simpleton.

Obviously it's very unlikely that one would just up roots and move to say.. Algeria and be an Algerian nationalist. These things tend to be formed by people of that nation.

Simple simple simpleton.

Obviously it's very unlikely that one would just up roots and move to say.. Algeria and be an Algerian nationalist. These things tend to be formed by people of that nation.
and yet the american neonazis adopt the iconography of a nation that was opposed to the u.s. in the most devastating war in human history and claim that iconography as exemplifying radical pro-american nationalism? makes zero sense, my bro.

to take an example: what possible relevance would the iron cross have to a radical pro-american nationalism? that is an intrinsically german militarist symbol. what gives?

the nazis are a diaspora. it's their worst nightmare. but it's true.

and yet the american neonazis adopt the iconography of a nation that was opposed to the u.s. in the most devastating war in human history and claim that iconography as exemplifying radical pro-american nationalism? makes zero sense, my bro.

to take an example: what possible relevance would the iron cross have to a radical pro-american nationalism? that is an intrinsically german militarist symbol. what gives?

the nazis are a diaspora. it's their worst nightmare. but it's true.


The use of Iconography associates them with the past greatness of the German Nazi party.

and yet the american neonazis adopt the iconography of a nation that was opposed to the u.s. in the most devastating war in human history and claim that iconography as exemplifying radical pro-american nationalism? makes zero sense, my bro.

to take an example: what possible relevance would the iron cross have to a radical pro-american nationalism? that is an intrinsically german militarist symbol. what gives?

the nazis are a diaspora. it's their worst nightmare. but it's true.


Ditto 

The use of Iconography associates them with the past greatness of the German Nazi party.



what was so great about them?

what was so great about them?


Dragged Germany out of the Great Depression.

If not for his insane death wish upon most of Europe I guarantee Adolf Hitler would be remembered as one of the Greatest leaders of our time.

Much like Roosevelt, he dragged his country out of the depression, created jobs, created social welfare, created a civil infrastructure..etc..etc..etc

Dragged Germany out of the Great Depression.

If not for his insane death wish upon most of Europe I guarantee Adolf Hitler would be remembered as one of the Greatest leaders of our time.

Much like Roosevelt, he dragged his country out of the depression, created jobs, created social welfare, created a civil infrastructure..etc..etc..etc


But the nazi economic revival was an artificial one which would not have lasted since it depended on the the confiscation of personal property, the
manipulation of private industry, and the disenfranchisement of a large part of the population.  Women in the professions were fired, and no longer
counted as unemployed,they were only allowed to be teachers or maids. Youth were required "volunteers", then counted as employed. Jews,
Gypsies, Intellectuals, who were summarily dismissed but not counted as unemployed.  Conscription was another way of reducing the ranks of
unemployed.  Also the nazis spent more than they made, they depended on the war, and the expansion of the empire to take care of those debts.

But the nazi economic revival was an artificial one which would not have lasted since it depended on the the confiscation of personal property, the
manipulation of private industry, and the disenfranchisement of a large part of the population.  Women in the professions were fired, and no longer
counted as unemployed,they were only allowed to be teachers or maids. Youth were required "volunteers", then counted as employed. Jews.
Gypsies, Intellectuals, who were summarily dismissed but not counted as unemployed.  Conscription was another way of reducing the ranks of
unemployed.  Also the nazis spent more than they made, they depended on the war, and the expansion of the empire to take care of those debts.


They spent more than they made because they were at war.
How does the confiscation of personal property stimulate the economy. Yes, property was seized. An enormous amount of that was in the form of precious goods, not Normal commoditys.
Conscription was used the same way it was all over the world, to boost the military ranks.
How can you say it was an artificial economic revival when Germany was expanding in every direction. More land, more jobs, more resources.
Yes, they depended on the war and expansion, obviously.
After the war every country in Europe was saddled with enormous debt, what do you imagine they hoped would turn that around?

They spent more than they made because they were at war.
How does the confiscation of personal property stimulate the economy. Yes, property was seized. An enormous amount of that was in the form of precious goods, not Normal commoditys.
Conscription was used the same way it was all over the world, to boost the military ranks.
How can you say it was an artificial economic revival when Germany was expanding in every direction. More land, more jobs, more resources.
Yes, they depended on the war and expansion, obviously.
After the war every country in Europe was saddled with enormous debt, what do you imagine they hoped would turn that around?



It was a spike not a revival.  It was financed by increased government spending, but also by increased government borrowing(that ceased when the war became
global).  Acquiring land through invasion is never a good investment, more jobs that depended on war, and they did not have more resoureces, they were still
importing more than 1/3 of their raw material.  The war financed the spike, and the war was the inevitable downfall.  It was like using your credit cards to live
large figuring you would hit the lottery and pay them off.  Instead of hitting the number their number was up. After the war every country in Europe was saddled with
debt, but much more desirable than the takeover that would have occured without financing the war.

It was a spike not a revival.  It was financed by increased government spending, but also by increased government borrowing(that ceased when the war became
global).  Acquiring land through invasion is never a good investment, more jobs that depended on war, and they did not have more resoureces, they were still
importing more than 1/3 of their raw material.  The war financed the spike, and the war was the inevitable downfall.  It was like using your credit cards to live
large figuring you would hit the lottery and pay them off.  Instead of hitting the number their number was up. After the war every country in Europe was saddled with
debt, but much more desirable than the takeover that would have occured without financing the war.


You do make an interesting comparison there.
I still disagree however.
I'll explain why.
Through the New Deal President Roosevelt created thousands of jobs in the alphabet agency's. Hitler did the same thing. Here's the thing, those who worked in the Alphabet agency's here in the U.S transferred the skills they learned to regular jobs as the country slowly came out of the depression. The same would have happened in Germany.
I'm not saying that the War wasn't a huge factor in Germany climbing out of the Depression. There are many individuals who would say that the War was the only reason the U.S came through the Depression as they did. Obviously the war played a key role in the revitalizing of both economy's. I'm of the opinion that Germany would have experienced a similar growth to the one the United States underwent in the late 40's and 50's. With more land, more resources and in simple terms.. More to do. The German economy would have stabilized.

Ah, a spirited debate! I thought people would just yell at me for starting a thread about a neonazi rally.

The funny thing is, I read the skinhead thing is really taking off in the former soviet union. Which to me seems aggressively a-historical -- seeing as how the germans killed like 20 million Russians in wwii. But I guess it goes back to this other point, reactionary right wing movements tend to pop up where there is economic distress, and russia's in pretty bad shape these days.

Ah, a spirited debate! I thought people would just yell at me for starting a thread about a neonazi rally.

The funny thing is, I read the skinhead thing is really taking off in the former soviet union. Which to me seems aggressively a-historical -- seeing as how the germans killed like 20 million Russians in wwii. But I guess it goes back to this other point, reactionary right wing movements tend to pop up where there is economic distress, and russia's in pretty bad shape these days.


I'd rather have a Facist dictatorship in Russia that communism. Communism is the greatest threat to the free world, even today.

i'll fight for whichever side has the cooler flying saucers.

You do make an interesting comparison there.
I still disagree however.
I'll explain why.
Through the New Deal President Roosevelt created thousands of jobs in the alphabet agency's. Hitler did the same thing. Here's the thing, those who worked in the Alphabet agency's here in the U.S transferred the skills they learned to regular jobs as the country slowly came out of the depression. The same would have happened in Germany.
I'm not saying that the War wasn't a huge factor in Germany climbing out of the Depression. There are many individuals who would say that the War was the only reason the U.S came through the Depression as they did. Obviously the war played a key role in the revitalizing of both economy's. I'm of the opinion that Germany would have experienced a similar growth to the one the United States underwent in the late 40's and 50's. With more land, more resources and in simple terms.. More to do. The German economy would have stabilized.


We will have to agree to disagree.



I'd rather have a Facist dictatorship in Russia that communism. Communism is the greatest threat to the free world, even today.



I would say that there isn't a choice here, each being equally intolerable.




i'll fight for whichever side has the cooler flying saucers.



They can keep the saucers, just give me the coolers  ;D

what, this thread? or current events in general?


Both..... actually.  ::)

A. Ragtag bands of neo-nazis marching through our streets are horrible, but they can't hold a human-flesh candle to the de facto fascist regime holding power in Washington D.C. today!!!

and

B.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/photo/2006-02/22149102.jpg

I apologise for posting this picture.  I needed it to illustrate a point.  If I saw this parade marching down Main Street in my town, what would I do?  My principles would tell me to let it be.  They are commiting no crime and they are exercising their First Amendment rights.  Marching men bearing swastikas are extantly guilty of bad taste, but you can't be prosecuted for that!  My gut would tell me to pick up the biggest rock I can find, hurl it at the neo-nazis, and repeat the process as many times as possible!
>:(
In other words, if you present to the public a display as depicted above, you can't expect an emotion-driven populus to consider foremost your Constitutional rights!

I had a class in college about the national socialist issue and how it would work in the world today (well, 1985, but still...) its not surprising that they pulled the German economy out of depression and into full employment in less than four years.  the fist thing I thought was that anything can be done for your people if you put all your efforts into it.  But was it that kind of focus that leads to control over a people? (I hope I can explain myself clearly)- If everyone- every single one of the pepole benefitted from the ecoonomic change, they will follow us and benefit as well from this next idea...and this one... Is that a step toward control- the  overall success of a great plan?

Also.  Using the iconography of a time and nation past (for we can consider that nation a very changed place now)- is it not necessarily to capture the time nor place?  I fthe group adopts their own set of stark designs and new letterhead and really big banners- will no one associate it with the gerneral beliefs and follow?  does the public not want to follow a new idol and learn the tenets assocciated; or is my lazy head happy to see the swastika and gl - oh yeah I remember them. I need a group to fit into- I'll go with them (decision made, done).

did you just become a nazi? :o

i think the problem's more endemic to industrialization -- it's a system which generates great excesses of production which have to be directed somewhere, and in the absence of some great project industrialized economies have a natural tendency toward economic depression. industrialization began in the late 1800s and there was a huge, and largely forgotten, depression in the mid-1890s, followed by a period of lots of warmaking in the early 1900s, followed by another depression at the end of the 1920s. in the depression farmers could produce a lot of food but could find no buyers for it; and because of the investment excesses of the roaring 20s everybody had all this excess debt to pay off. so the whole thing was about turbocharged production capacities, coupled with promises in the consumer market that outpaced reality. so, surplus, loss of balance, economic collapse.

i think wwii turned that around for the US as well as germany, and of course, because the US wasn't destroyed by war, it was in a position to continue the hyped-up war economy -- in the cold war. when the cold war ended, what happened? we became a consumer society, building endless mcmansions and buying new t.v.s whenever the old one broke down, getting a new computer every two years, etc., etc. the common denominator -- turbocharged, caffeinated consumption, whether of war materiel or civilian goods, to make up for excess capacity generated by an industrialized economy.

anyway, i think as long as we have all this excess capacity we should put it into something more useful than war or bigger boom boxes at best buy -- which is why in my ideal political system all that excess cabbage would go into finding extraterrestrial intelligence.

and, you know, killing it.

did you just become a nazi? :o
Just? :)
Waht about my question about using the symbols of the bpast to bring the familiar idea to the forefront af the dull public's mind? it may not be a quesiton of the country nor the politic...but good advertising.

anyway, i think as long as we have all this excess capacity we should put it into something more useful than war or bigger boom boxes at best buy -- which is why in my ideal political system all that excess cabbage would go into finding extraterrestrial intelligence.

and, you know, killing it.


Well, you more than answered my quesiton about most  things....but that last sentence was the first to really make sense to me.

I love cabbage.


I hate aliens.

did you just become a nazi? :o

i think the problem's more endemic to industrialization -- it's a system which generates great excesses of production which have to be directed somewhere, and in the absence of some great project industrialized economies have a natural tendency toward economic depression. industrialization began in the late 1800s and there was a huge, and largely forgotten, depression in the mid-1890s, followed by a period of lots of warmaking in the early 1900s, followed by another depression at the end of the 1920s. in the depression farmers could produce a lot of food but could find no buyers for it; and because of the investment excesses of the roaring 20s everybody had all this excess debt to pay off. so the whole thing was about turbocharged production capacities, coupled with promises in the consumer market that outpaced reality. so, surplus, loss of balance, economic collapse.

i think wwii turned that around for the US as well as germany, and of course, because the US wasn't destroyed by war, it was in a position to continue the hyped-up war economy -- in the cold war. when the cold war ended, what happened? we became a consumer society, building endless mcmansions and buying new t.v.s whenever the old one broke down, getting a new computer every two years, etc., etc. the common denominator -- turbocharged, caffeinated consumption, whether of war materiel or civilian goods, to make up for excess capacity generated by an industrialized economy.

anyway, i think as long as we have all this excess capacity we should put it into something more useful than war or bigger boom boxes at best buy -- which is why in my ideal political system all that excess cabbage would go into finding extraterrestrial intelligence.

and, you know, killing it.


So essentially Uncle Adolf was on the right track according to you. Glad to have you on board chief.

So essentially Uncle Adolf was on the right track according to you. Glad to have you on board chief.


There you are...
I knew this coulnd't go on for too long today without your input...
(PS: hope all's well with you)

There you are...
I knew this coulnd't go on for too long today without your input...
(PS: hope all's well with you)


Well of course not. Actually, go back to see my input.

On your point with the whole iconography etc. That was a master stroke, associate your movement with the past glory of the nation and you'll have a whole host of followers. You see all these militias nowadays with thousands of members and they're located in bumfudge idaho. They subscribe to past glory's that these people want to see.

Just? :)

wait a minute. everyone on this board is either a nazi or a computerized eliza-like conversation program. what gives?

did i tell you that in my fever sickness where i kept waking up every other hour in excruciating throat pain i kept having feverish dreams about inthe00s? i dreamed howard had 70 karma.

it's my thread! i'll hijack it if i damn well please. >:(

wait a minute. everyone on this board is either a nazi or a computerized eliza-like conversation program. what gives?

did i tell you that in my fever sickness where i kept waking up every other hour in excruciating throat pain i kept having feverish dreams about inthe00s? i dreamed howard had 70 karma.

it's my thread! i'll hijack it if i damn well please. >:(


I'm concerned. You're seeing stormtroopers, you're dreaming about HOWARD!!!!!!
1. That's worrysome enough.
2. I"m jealous that it wasnt me.

I love the title you have chosen for this thread.  I'm sure it's been said more than once at an actual gathering of the neo regime boosters.

I'm sure it's been said more than once at an actual gathering of the neo regime boosters.


Actually no, we're generally perfectly happy to fight, what with our superior fighting skills etc.

Talking about fever induced visions, I had one yesterday.

It's so very difficult to explain.

One part was a hologram of King Kong bouncing around on a sofa whilst 2 middle aged ladies sat and watched and giggled. Then some fella with orange hair and a jump-suit with red patches on it came out and did some bizare 'saturday night fever' pose before walking out the door.

Actually no, we're generally perfectly happy to fight, what with our superior fighting skills etc.

Talking about fever induced visions, I had one yesterday.

It's so very difficult to explain.

One part was a hologram of King Kong bouncing around on a sofa whilst 2 middle aged ladies sat and watched and giggled. Then some fella with orange hair and a jump-suit with red patches on it came out and did some bizare 'saturday night fever' pose before walking out the door.


Hmmmm.  King Kong hologram represents the little of the raw primate left in you. He's jumpoin on the sofa to indicate the action you need to take, rather than sit and laze about.  The women giggling display how people will be rapt in watching you and your new found kinetic energy and charisma.  The fella with orange hair and jumpsuit is a fire- he is dancing, creating heat and passion.  He inspires you with his disco fever and then leaves...it is now your responsibillity to carry on with the boogie.

I'm concerned. You're seeing stormtroopers, you're dreaming about HOWARD!!!!!!
1. That's worrysome enough.
2. I"m jealous that it wasnt me.

I love the title you have chosen for this thread.  I'm sure it's been said more than once at an actual gathering of the neo regime boosters.
gave ya a boost. you'll be at 70 in no time.

The thread title is a bastardization of the best line from dr. strangelove (well, maybe not; there's a lot of great lines): gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room! Apparently Nazis love a good fight. Who knew? I personally was never much for fighting. I'm willing to become a nazi but I'd have to be a gentler nazi. a nouveau nazi. an ambiguously gay nazi. apparently there's not much of a market for that.

Hmmmm.  King Kong hologram represents the little of the raw primate left in you. He's jumpoin on the sofa to indicate the action you need to take, rather than sit and laze about.  The women giggling display how people will be rapt in watching you and your new found kinetic energy and charisma.  The fella with orange hair and jumpsuit is a fire- he is dancing, creating heat and passion.  He inspires you with his disco fever and then leaves...it is now your responsibillity to carry on with the boogie.


You realise what you've created here...

I'd have to be a gentler nazi. a nouveau nazi. an ambiguously gay nazi.


OMG< I have the BEST top for the outfit you'll need!

You realise what you've created here...


Dont' do anything rash. This is a nazi rally.

OMG< I have the BEST top for the outfit you'll need!


Pink swastika with sparkles?

Pink swastika with sparkles?



Actually, it was a pink triangle

http://www.glaa.org/images/thepinktrianglerichardplant.jpg

Phew. Harsh dose of reality there.

I think I'd like to be THIS kind of nouveau-fascist.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2005/07/16/ngerm16.jpg

Phew. Harsh dose of reality there.

I think I'd like to be THIS kind of nouveau-fascist.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2005/07/16/ngerm16.jpg



HAHAHA!!  That's the hilarious John Cleese in the hallway of his madcap hotel Fawlty Towers

Great pic   ;D ;D

Phew. Harsh dose of reality there.

I think I'd like to be THIS kind of nouveau-fascist.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2005/07/16/ngerm16.jpg



I was jut thinking about  "lunch will be served after the war.......NING that tresspassers will be tied up with piano wire"

(the following is from memory...please bear with me)
Guest: Wir wollen einin auto meten"
Basil: Oh, I see, youre volunteering to go out and get some meat!
Guest: Wie, bitte?
Basil: VEE HAVE MEET HE-AH IN ZEE BILDING!
gU

That was on television the ohter night, hadn't seen it in years, wish I had laughed my ass of, but it is still there.  But I
did ROTF tears falling down    ;D ;D

Pink swastika with sparkles?


::)

I'd rather have a Facist dictatorship in Russia that communism. Communism is the greatest threat to the free world, even today.


Balls! Never did I think I would see the day when a fascist was worried about protecting a free world.

You denounce and claim to fear Communism because Communists represents the radical antithesis to your own political ideology. Totalitarianism, whether it flies under the falg of Communism or Fascism, is the threat. This is why both Communism and Fascism both have been very unsuccessful in the modern world, in comparison with their less radical counterparts, namely Democtratic Socialism and Conservatism respectively.

edit: I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but this is just the impression I get.

I have a class in two minutes, but whn it's over I will post a lengthy opinion about fascism, communism/socialism, and the USSR and its satellite states using the DDR as my primary example (since we're discussing Germany, after all).

You denounce and claim to fear Communism because Communists represents the radical antithesis to your own political ideology. Totalitarianism, whether it flies under the falg of Communism or Fascism, is the threat. This is why both Communism and Fascism both have been very unsuccessful in the modern world, in comparison with their less radical counterparts, namely Democtratic Socialism and Conservatism respectively.


Correct, I do in fact denounce and fear communism because it is the antithesis of my own political ideaolgy.
I'm not actually going to disagree with you, Totalitatianism is always bound to fail (in the long run) in the modern world, that's why you tone it down just a notch.

that's why you tone it down just a notch.

Totalitatianism Light?

Totalitatianism Light?


Basically.

In all seriousness I don't really believe in Totalitarianism as such.
I'm of the opinion that the people who make up the majority of the population come first, everyone else waits.

This in turn causes those who aren't of the majority to leave creating a haven for the majority.

Minoritys in the United States have far too much power at the expense of the majority, I would have this reduced.

Basically.
.

Minoritys in the United States have far too much power at the expense of the majority, I would have this reduced.

Creating symptoms like Affirmative Action?

Creating symptoms like Affirmative Action?


I'm not sure I understand the way you phrased this question?

But, anyway..

I'm very much opposed to Affirmative Action.

I'm not sure I understand the way you phrased this question?

But, anyway..

I'm very much opposed to Affirmative Action.


I meant the power that tthe minorities have that you say take s the power away from the majority - A.A is one of those things that causes that shift in power you think needs to be stopped.
right?

Part One: My Background.

I would like to explain some of my background in the area of Fascism and Nazism, because I think it is important to outline where I'm coming from, both in respect to circumstances in my life, and to my own opinions of Hitler, Nazism, Fascism etc...

I was born in the Federal Republic of Germany (BRD) in 1985. My great grandfather was a devoted fascist and an officer in the S.S. during the Third Reich, and remained a fascist for the rest of his life. My recently deceased grandmother was also from Germany, was brought up during and directly after the Reich, and remained sympathetic to Naziism despite having married an American and having raised four "American" children. She once sent my uncle to the American school in Wiesbaden with a Swastika painted on his jacket because there were some black army-brats who were bullying him around (and she somehow thought this would resolve the situation). On several occasions one could hear her say things like "I stand behind my country!" and "Hitler was better than anything you got!" Some of this rubbed off on her children. For example, 3 out of the 4 (the three girls, who were invariably influenced the most by their mother) self-identify mostly as Germans, despite having American passports and being somewhat proud of the American heritage they have through their father (my grandfather). Those same three (my mother included) though they are not anti-semitic by any means, agree that Hitler was an amazingly efficient leader despite his moral shortcomings, and that Germans are the best, most efficient, hardworking, and excellent ethnicity in the world. The Nazi/fascist legacy in our family has a long reach (about 3 generations and counting).

I, having a much more diluted German heritage than my mother, aunts and uncle, grandmother, etc..., and also being much more educated even now as I am still in college, reject all notions of ethnic superiority. My self-identification, as far as nationality is concerned and as far as I am willing to take that notion, matches what's written on my passports (American and Canadian). However, just like the rest of my mother's side of the family, I have a special place in my heart for Germany. I was coincidentally born there, I decided to learn German when I was pretty young, I've always taken an active interest in German culture and history (and FOOD!). I find the Third Reich to be the darkest and lowest point in German history, and indeed in human history. There is no justification for what occurred during the Holocaust, and there is no logic involved in believing one race is truly superior to another. I instead concentrate more on what is truly fascinating to me: post-war Germany; the rebuilding of a crumbled nation into two distinct nations and then once again into a united nation.  

As someone who most closely identifies with Democratic Socialism, I view Fascism (but also totalitarianism of any kind) as an enemy to free, civilised men and women everywhere. That is not to say that I do not respect its existence, or even the intellectual movement behind it. Just like any other movement, it has at least a few very intelligent people involved with it, and that's respectable no matter how disagreable I find it. However, that does not mean that I wouldn't work to destroy a Fascist police state if ever one should come to power in my neck of the woods.  

Part Two: Why I think the Reich is not a suitable example of why Fascism does or does not "work" per se.

I do not think one can correctly use Germany's economic and militaristic success during the Reich as evidence for Fascism's superiority to other political/economical systems. Here is why...

Hitler, more than anything else, was a talented, charismatic politician. He had the ability to win people over. I believe that he would have led the German nation to success in any poltical ideology he may have chosen because he was able to get what he wanted from people. The German people have proven themselves capable of adapting to many political or economical structures (monarchy/empire, capitalism, fascism, communism, and democratic socialism). Hitler chose fascism and made it Nazism because it allowed him to appeal to the most basic emotions of the German (and Austrian) people at that time: their feelings of nationalism, superiority, greed, and anti-semitism, and also their fear of disorder. Even Austrian Social-Democrats welcomed the Anschluss simply because it would restore the order in Austria which had been lost thanks to military defeat and two subsequent civil wars.

Had Hitler been a Socialist or Communist, he would have recieved much the same response, IMO. He would have rallied the people to get behind him and rebuild. In other words, I think that the amazing (temporary) success Germany found between 1933 and 1945 is more attributable to Hitler's political cunning in using the Fascist ideology than to the ideology of fascism itself.

Post-bellum Germany must be taken as an example. Even though the country was split, both East and West Germany adapted to the new era quickly, and both developed strong economies. It is little known that at its peak, East Germany was the 10th most important economy in the world, and that they were the most economically advanced Warsaw Pact nation. (That is not to ignore their obvious moral, political, and economical weaknesses as a Soviet-style totalitarian communist state.) The Federal Republic of Germany was obviously a great success, and since reunification Germany is Europe's most important economy.  

What I am trying to show is that the German nation has shown itself to be resilient enough to excell under many a political ideology, not just Nazism. Their success during the Reich, therefore, is neither proof nor evidence of Fascism's merits because while Hitler was able to employ his Fascism to rebuild the German nation after WW1, so were both Western Capitalists and Eastern Communists able to do the same thing (even better) after WW2 using their own totally opposite philosophies. I think that any of the major political and economic philosophies "work" as far as each of them having advantages and disadvantages and as far as each one being totally capable of being used to organise a nation state. The question when choosing a political ideology should not be "does it work" (they all do, or they wouldn't exist), it should have more to do with moral, philisophical, and logistical conflicts and how they can be resolved within that system. And Fascism, more particularly Nazism, mostly ignores moral and philisophical conflicts in favour of the logistical ones. This is not good enough, IMO.

I meant the power that tthe minorities have that you say take s the power away from the majority - A.A is one of those things that causes that shift in power you think needs to be stopped.
right?


Oh, yes, exactly.

Part One: My Background.

I would like to explain some of my background in the area of Fascism and Nazism, because I think it is important to outline where I'm coming from, both in respect to circumstances in my life, and to my own opinions of Hitler, Nazism, Fascism etc...

I was born in the Federal Republic of Germany (BRD) in 1985. My great grandfather was a devoted fascist and an officer in the S.S. during the Third Reich, and remained a fascist for the rest of his life. My recently deceased grandmother was also from Germany, was brought up during and directly after the Reich, and remained sympathetic to Naziism despite having married an American and having raised four "American" children. She once sent my uncle to the American school in Wiesbaden with a Swastika painted on his jacket because there were some black army-brats who were bullying him around (and she somehow thought this would resolve the situation). On several occasions one could hear her say things like "I stand behind my country!" and "Hitler was better than anything you got!" Some of this rubbed off on her children. For example, 3 out of the 4 (the three girls, who were invariably influenced the most by their mother) self-identify mostly as Germans, despite having American passports and being somewhat proud of the American heritage they have through their father (my grandfather). Those same three (my mother included) though they are not anti-semitic by any means, agree that Hitler was an amazingly efficient leader despite his moral shortcomings, and that Germans are the best, most efficient, hardworking, and excellent ethnicity in the world. The Nazi/fascist legacy in our family has a long reach (about 3 generations and counting).

I, having a much more diluted German heritage than my mother, aunts and uncle, grandmother, etc..., and also being much more educated even now as I am still in college, reject all notions of ethnic superiority. My self-identification, as far as nationality is concerned and as far as I am willing to take that notion, matches what's written on my passports (American and Canadian). However, just like the rest of my mother's side of the family, I have a special place in my heart for Germany. I was coincidentally born there, I decided to learn German when I was pretty young, I've always taken an active interest in German culture and history (and FOOD!). I find the Third Reich to be the darkest and lowest point in German history, and indeed in human history. There is no justification for what occurred during the Holocaust, and there is no logic involved in believing one race is truly superior to another. I instead concentrate more on what is truly fascinating to me: post-war Germany; the rebuilding of a crumbled nation into two distinct nations and then once again into a united nation. 

As someone who most closely identifies with Democratic Socialism, I view Fascism (but also totalitarianism of any kind) as an enemy to free, civilised men and women everywhere. That is not to say that I do not respect its existence, or even the intellectual movement behind it. Just like any other movement, it has at least a few very intelligent people involved with it, and that's respectable no matter how disagreable I find it. However, that does not mean that I wouldn't work to destroy a Fascist police state if ever one should come to power in my neck of the woods. 

Part Two: Why I think the Reich is not a suitable example of why Fascism does or does not "work" per se.

I do not think one can correctly use Germany's economic and militaristic success during the Reich as evidence for Fascism's superiority to other political/economical systems. Here is why...

Hitler, more than anything else, was a talented, charismatic politician. He had the ability to win people over. I believe that he would have led the German nation to success in any poltical ideology he may have chosen because he was able to get what he wanted from people. The German people have proven themselves capable of adapting to many political or economical structures (monarchy/empire, capitalism, fascism, communism, and democratic socialism). Hitler chose fascism and made it Nazism because it allowed him to appeal to the most basic emotions of the German (and Austrian) people at that time: their feelings of nationalism, superiority, greed, and anti-semitism, and also their fear of disorder. Even Austrian Social-Democrats welcomed the Anschluss simply because it would restore the order in Austria which had been lost thanks to military defeat and two subsequent civil wars.

Had Hitler been a Socialist or Communist, he would have recieved much the same response, IMO. He would have rallied the people to get behind him and rebuild. In other words, I think that the amazing (temporary) success Germany found between 1933 and 1945 is more attributable to Hitler's political cunning in using the Fascist ideology than to the ideology of fascism itself.

Post-bellum Germany must be taken as an example. Even though the country was split, both East and West Germany adapted to the new era quickly, and both developed strong economies. It is little known that at its peak, East Germany was the 10th most important economy in the world, and that they were the most economically advanced Warsaw Pact nation. (That is not to ignore their obvious moral, political, and economical weaknesses as a Soviet-style totalitarian communist state.) The Federal Republic of Germany was obviously a great success, and since reunification Germany is Europe's most important economy. 

What I am trying to show is that the German nation has shown itself to be resilient enough to excell under many a political ideology, not just Nazism. Their success during the Reich, therefore, is neither proof nor evidence of Fascism's merits because while Hitler was able to employ his Fascism to rebuild the German nation after WW1, so were both Western Capitalists and Eastern Communists able to do the same thing (even better) after WW2 using their own totally opposite philosophies. I think that any of the major political and economic philosophies "work" as far as each of them having advantages and disadvantages and as far as each one being totally capable of being used to organise a nation state. The question when choosing a political ideology should not be "does it work" (they all do, or they wouldn't exist), it should have more to do with moral, philisophical, and logistical conflicts and how they can be resolved within that system. And Fascism, more particularly Nazism, mostly ignores moral and philisophical conflicts in favour of the logistical ones. This is not good enough, IMO.


I can agree with this.

In my opinion the most important factor for any nation is it's economic success, you however view other factors as important, that's fair.

All systems 'work' it's finding the right people to work in them that's the thing.

this is my account of the neo-Nazi rally that I helped to crash.
The Nazis are associated with the notorious Minuteman Project. Members of both groups attend each others rallies.
I arrived and immediately "mixed it up" with the neo-Nazis and skinheads. One of the Aryan supremacists wore a replica Confederate soldiers' cap. There was lots of pushing, shoving , and elbowing. The stupid police officers threatened to arrest me, but not the Nazis!!!
After several hours of this, the neo-Nazis, skinheads, and Aryan supremacists crossed the street and brought out the Nazi and Confederate flags. Can you guess who they brought them out for?
click to see the pix...

http://www.la.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/133898.php

http://www.la.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/133802.php

this is my account of the neo-Nazi rally that I helped to crash.
The Nazis are associated with the notorious Minuteman Project. Members of both groups attend each others rallies.
I arrived and immediately "mixed it up" with the neo-Nazis and skinheads. One of the Aryan supremacists wore a replica Confederate soldiers' cap. There was lots of pushing, shoving , and elbowing. The stupid police officers threatened to arrest me, but not the Nazis!!!
After several hours of this, the neo-Nazis, skinheads, and Aryan supremacists crossed the street and brought out the Nazi and Confederate flags. Can you guess who they brought them out for?
click to see the pix...

http://www.la.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/133898.php

http://www.la.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/133802.php
DUDE THAT IS SO WRONG!

having a 45-mile-an-hour speed limit in a residential zone without a motorist-pedestrian buffer? think of the children!

dude, that guy with the shaved head and the open shirt is scary-lookin'. hats off if you threw down on him.

this is my account of the neo-Nazi rally that I helped to crash.
The Nazis are associated with the notorious Minuteman Project. Members of both groups attend each others rallies.
I arrived and immediately "mixed it up" with the neo-Nazis and skinheads. One of the Aryan supremacists wore a replica Confederate soldiers' cap. There was lots of pushing, shoving , and elbowing. The stupid police officers threatened to arrest me, but not the Nazis!!!
After several hours of this, the neo-Nazis, skinheads, and Aryan supremacists crossed the street and brought out the Nazi and Confederate flags. Can you guess who they brought them out for?
click to see the pix...

http://www.la.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/133898.php

http://www.la.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/133802.php


I fail to see the issue here.

It's there right to organize wherever they want.

I challenge you to a duel in your or my backyard anyway, for bragging rights.

There was lots of pushing, shoving , and elbowing.


But no substance.

I just wanted to say that the name of this thread is delightfully hilarious. Infact, I'd call it Pythonean. ;)

;D

this is my account of the neo-Nazi rally that I helped to crash.
The Nazis are associated with the notorious Minuteman Project. Members of both groups attend each others rallies.
I arrived and immediately "mixed it up" with the neo-Nazis and skinheads. One of the Aryan supremacists wore a replica Confederate soldiers' cap. There was lots of pushing, shoving , and elbowing. The stupid police officers threatened to arrest me, but not the Nazis!!!
After several hours of this, the neo-Nazis, skinheads, and Aryan supremacists crossed the street and brought out the Nazi and Confederate flags. Can you guess who they brought them out for?
click to see the pix...

http://www.la.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/133898.php

http://www.la.indymedia.org/news/2005/07/133802.php



I really hate seeing the Confederate flag used by Nazi's.  Ugh.

I really hate seeing the Confederate flag used by Nazi's.  Ugh



Don't like seeing 2 losers side by side?

It's there right to organize wherever they want.




Now, like it or not, this is true...and if they had a demontration permit then it would explain why you were in danger in getting arrested and not them.

I fail to see the issue here.

It's there right to organize wherever they want.



Not really.  It is their right to organize, and to demonstrate, and excersize their first amendment rights, but if they are choosing a venue
that is flagrantly intended to incite, then that falls under the heading of "fighting words" and the venue may be changed to one similar,
but less inflammatory.

All I see is a group of patriots abiding by the law.

Show people that picture and some will see a rampant and wreckless band of people...some assume that they are withing the law.
we have no idea if they were allowed by the city to protest. we have no idea if they just picked a spot and whipped out the flags, guerilla style..
well, one of us was there.. but looking at the picture, we dont' know, but we all assume something different.

All I see is a group of patriots abiding by the law.


Patriots, maybe, but not of the United States, this is as anti-american as it gets.  I wonder how many WWII veterans
homes they passed by?

Patriots, maybe, but not of the United States, this is as anti-american as it gets.  I wonder how many WWII veterans
homes they passed by?


They want what is best for their country, it may not be what you think is best, it may not even be what I think is best, but it's what they think is best. I call that patriotism.

They want what is best for their country, it may not be what you think is best, it may not even be what I think is best, but it's what they think is best. I call that patriotism.




I also think that being able to say how you feel about your country is very American

I also think that being able to say how you feel about your country is very American


Yup!

Here's the thing about patriotism.

I believe that my ideas are what's best for America. I want what's best for America. That is patrotism. Now, one of my ideas might be to eliminate everybody of Norse heritage (don't worry, total opposite of my plans) now, is that going to go over well with everyone of Norse heritage, Noooo, they're going to think I'm the worst thing since Socialist level taxation, BUT! to everyone who agrees with my ideas, Well hot damn I'm the biggest apple pie eating patriot there is.
It's all relative.

Yup!

Here's the thing about patriotism.

I believe that my ideas are what's best for America. I want what's best for America. That is patrotism. Now, one of my ideas might be to eliminate everybody of Norse heritage (don't worry, total opposite of my plans) now, is that going to go over well with everyone of Norse heritage, Noooo, they're going to think I'm the worst thing since Socialist level taxation, BUT! to everyone who agrees with my ideas, Well hot damn I'm the biggest apple pie eating patriot there is.
It's all relative.


Oh yeah. Norse was a random choice...thanks.

They want what is best for their country, it may not be what you think is best, it may not even be what I think is best, but it's what they think is best. I call that patriotism.




But what country is that?  They are parading with the Pre WWII National Flag of Germany.  That flag was flown over the bodies of American soldiers by the people who were celebrating their deaths. How are we to believe that they have the interests of the Americans, all Americans, and the United States at heart?

But what country is that?  They are parading with the Pre WWII National Flag of Germany.  That flag was flown over the bodies of American soldiers by the people who were celebrating their deaths. How are we to believe that they have the interests of the Americans, all Americans, and the United States at heart?


They're also flying the flag of the United States.

What you have to understand is that the Swastika is no longer that flag of Nazi Germany, it is a symbol for an idealogy.

What you have to understand is that the Swastika is no longer that flag of Nazi Germany, it is a symbol for an idealogy.



I've been around a while.  I know exactly what it means.

I've been around a while.  I know exactly what it means.


Good, much like the Hammer and Sickle is no longer the Russian flag, but a symbol for an ideaology.

Good, much like the Hammer and Sickle is no longer the Russian flag, but a symbol for an ideaology.


And spider web tattoos on the elbow, wonder how many of them were there?

at the smithsonian there's a replica of a german wwi aviator uniform and it has a swastika on it. the swastika is very german, totally pre-dates nazism. they took a lot of german iconography and co-opted it to promote fascism. it's all well and good to say that these symbols now represent a sort-of post-national neofascist ideology but it's not historically consistent. and the point danoota makes about these being symbols of possibly the most formidable enemy america has ever faced is a good one. i think we had something like this conversation round about page 1 of this thread.

And spider web tattoos on the elbow, wonder how many of them were there?
at the risk of being howardly, what's the spider web on the elbow signify? i see that a lot.

And spider web tattoos on the elbow, wonder how many of them were there?


::)

Every punk kid has one of those now. The real meaning is long lost.


at the risk of being howardly, what's the spider web on the elbow signify? i see that a lot.


If you killed a minority, it was an Aryan brotherhood thing. They're very common now though, so unless there's a whole sub-culture of killers it's been bastardized.

at the risk of being howardly,

THAT's funny.

Don't like seeing 2 losers side by side?


Huh? What do you mean?

Huh? What do you mean?


She's making a reference to Germany being on the losing side in the Second World War and the Confederacy being on the losing side in the Civil War.
Of course, never mind the fact that if things had been different the exact same thing would be said about the Union Jack and the Stars and Stripes.

I know what she was referring to, but I don't see how it was relevant to what I said.

She is probably among the majority of people who think that if you have any southern identity or think that there was anything to the civil war and confederate flag besides slavery you're a racis, segregationist etc.

I am a liberal but I am sick to death of some the attacks on the south.

I know what she was referring to, but I don't see how it was relevant to what I said.

She is probably among the majority of people who think that if you have any southern identity or think that there was anything to the civil war and confederate flag besides slavery you're a racis, segregationist etc.

I am a liberal but I am sick to death of some the attacks on the south.


No, my father was from Louisiana so I do know quite a bit about southern identity, and I know quite a bit about the reasons behind the civil war.  I also know how the confederate battle flag has been used as a symbol of intimidation.  I have never had a problem with the flag of the Confederate States( I wonder how many filled with southern pride even know what it looked like) but the battle flag, well I am sick to death of that.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1b/Starsnbars.png

The only guy I actually knew who had spider web tattoos was Michael Cartier.  I didn't know him in a friendly way.  He was a sociopathic skinhead.  Punk/goth friends of mine used to hang out with them. They said, "Mike's really cool, and he's nice, he's just had a really hard life.  He was an orphan, he grew up on the streets of Lawrence...and blah,l blah, blah."  I said, "That guy is trouble. He is sick and dangerous.  Stay away from him!"  I came to that conclusion just observing the Mike while a bunch of sat around drinking coffee at Denny's one night.

He had this James Dean whipped puppy demeanor that got him plenty of girlfriends, all of whom he proceeded to batter, stab, and threaten with death! The girlfriend in the next paragraph gave him a kitten for a present. When the kitten took a dump on Cartier's leather jacket, he killed it by slamming its head in a door!

Michael Cartier was living in Boston and working as a bar bouncer in 1992.  On May 30 he killed his girlfriend, 21 year old Karin Lardner, an art student from Washington DC.  He just blew her brains out right in from a sub shop on Commonwealth Avenue.  Then the big coward scurried back to his apartment and killed himself with the same gun.  He was all of 22 himself.

Kristin's father, George Lardner, wrote a Pulitzer prize-winning book about his daughter's murder.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0451407318/102-4982765-6644943
http://www.ccrkba.org/pub/rkba/women-guns/wg981112nn.html

There was no need to go back to my high school "friends" and say, "told you he was trouble!"  That much was self-evident!

Anyway, not to hijack the thread, but Cartier used to wear mesh tanktops to show off his gigant spider web tattoos.  He wasn't a racist so much as a genuine misanthropist, a hater of all mankind!

misanthropy is often behind a lot of that stuff, a real inculcated bitterness at living. like i say, i hung with a bunch of them dudes in high school, southern guys, closet fascists, etc., i was never a violent person myself but i did some punk loser stuff -- racist graffiti and things like that.  :-[ i was a dumb kid.

this one guy i knew i really liked, he was a racist bastard and really into this far-right stuff but i have this funny feeling he outgrew it, he wanted to fit in and that was the only group he felt like would take him. and it turns out once you're on the in with those guys it's very provisional, unless you get followers -- you're always reupping, re-proving that you're keeping with the orthodoxy, having to fiight somebody else or answering for something you've said that seems like it's not down with the belief or what have you. and this guy, if you talked to him for a while this completely different dude would come out, someone with a lot of humanity who he kept beating down becasuse of that aforementioned always-having-to-prove-yourself thing. i have this funny feeling that today he's dopey and happy with kids managing a gas station somewhere and has forgotten about all that stuff. hope so, anyway.

but there were other guys who believed in it like a religion. they were just scary, like cultists. it was like there was nobody home. i have to admit many of them struck super-impressive figures, though. very powerful people. i don't mean that as a positive value judgment, but the tragedy of power is that it's, on a certain level, irreducible, if that makes any sense at all. force is itself and its own meaning and that's hard to find these days, that kind of balls-on simplicity.

All the Neo-Nazis, KKK, and skinheads are VILE HUMAN TRASH in my honest opinion...all the Nazis did in Germany, honestly, was rule by terror, oppression, and mass murder!

People should never glorify Hitler or his Nazi murderers..same for the skinheads and KKK here in America.  What really gets my goat is that racist scum like the Klan, Aryan Nations, White Aryan Resistance, and the Order are allowed to spread their hateful message to our children....they have even been welcomed into some schools to recruit members...

My high-school library had a copy of Mein Kampf...

they have even been welcomed into some schools to recruit members...


Where exactly has this taken place?

My high-school library had a copy of Mein Kampf...


Congratulations.

Where exactly has this taken place?
A&E had a documentary on the KKK and the skinheads, and yes, they said they go into the schools and seek out potential members.

A&E had a documentary on the KKK and the skinheads, and yes, they said they go into the schools and seek out potential members.


Probably do, much like all radical groups.

Congratulations.
You seem to admire Hitler and the Nazis for giving Germans jobs and getting Germany out of the Depression..you seem to forget that it was paid for in human lives, especially Jewish lives, as well as the lives of anyone Der Fuhrer wished to dispose of....come on. He even did Stalinist Russia dirty by signing a non-aggression pact, and then attacking Russia...that's called backstabbing.

Not that Stalin was anything to write home about either...23 million Christians, Jews, and peasants, as well as Communist Party members, killed in Stalin's pogroms and purges.

You seem to admire Hitler and the Nazis for giving Germans jobs and getting Germany out of the Depression..you seem to forget that it was paid for in human lives, especially Jewish lives, as well as the lives of anyone Der Fuhrer wished to dispose of....come on. He even did Stalinist Russia dirty by signing a non-aggression pact, and then attacking Russia...that's called backstabbing.

Not that Stalin was anything to write home about either...23 million Christians, Jews, and peasants, as well as Communist Party members, killed in Stalin's pogroms and purges.


For all his faults, Stalin got what he wanted to do done. He may have been a communist, but he was efficient.

I pretty much disagree with Genocide in any shape or form (there are far easier and cheaper ways to cull). You're right, I do have admiration for the Fuhrer, I think he was arguably the greatest leader to ever live. I also think he was utterly fuucked up in the head and should have listened to the advice of his advisors.
Oh and backstabbing Communist Russia A'OK In my book!

Easier and cheaper ways to what? ???

PLEASE, don't call him "the Fuhrer".  I'm about to puke here.

And *I* get called an extremist.  I'm not walking around talking about "Comrade Stalin". :D

No, my father was from Louisiana so I do know quite a bit about southern identity, and I know quite a bit about the reasons behind the civil war.  I also know how the confederate battle flag has been used as a symbol of intimidation.  I have never had a problem with the flag of the Confederate States( I wonder how many filled with southern pride even know what it looked like) but the battle flag, well I am sick to death of that.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1b/Starsnbars.png


My mistake.  And yes,  I am aware that the flag I was speaking of was the battle flag, not the national flag.

My dad grew up in Louisiana kind of(they moved alot but they spent more time there than anywhere else).  He lived in Lake Charles,  New Orleans,  Monroe,  West Monroe,  and Lafayette.  Where in Louisiana is your dad from?

And I'm curious to know,  does he use any of the local lingo? Like "unclimbing" a tree or did he ever say he was going to "go make groceries". ;D

Man,  I love Lousiana...

Easier and cheaper ways to what? ???

PLEASE, don't call him "the Fuhrer".  I'm about to puke here.

And *I* get called an extremist.  I'm not walking around talking about "Comrade Stalin". :D


Why not, he was The Fuhrer..

Easier and cheaper ways to cull.. cull as in eliminate large quantities of..

Of what? Say it.

My mistake.  And yes,  I am aware that the flag I was speaking of was the battle flag, not the national flag.

My dad grew up in Louisiana kind of(they moved alot but they spent more time there than anywhere else).  He lived in Lake Charles,  New Orleans,  Monroe,  West Monroe,  and Lafayette.  Where in Louisiana is your dad from?

And I'm curious to know,  does he use any of the local lingo? Like "unclimbing" a tree or did he ever say he was going to "go make groceries". ;D

Man,  I love Lousiana...


My dad(he has been dead 20 years) was from the area around Lafayette. I have lots of family down there.  My father came north to marry my mother who he met during the war(WWII) and didn't return until the 70's when he went to bury his father.  He had vowed never to return to the south, but when he did he was unbelieveably happy, and proud, about the changes that had been made in the area of race relations.  He grew up speaking French and didn't actually learn English until he went to school. He wasn't allowed to use lingo, too bad, I like that kind of regional stuff, but he could smoke a good rib!  :)  My Great Grandparents(mothers fathers parents) came up from Virginia
and my grandfather was brought up with those southern manners which I wish were more prevalent up here.  Both my father and grandfather were southern gentlemen of the first caliber.

oo! it's heatin' up in here.

*passes around sundry cudgels, truncheons, and brass knuckles.*

oo! it's heatin' up in here.

*passes around sundry cudgels, truncheons, and brass knuckles.*


I'm going to open a bar in here...i'll give you some closet space for that stuff^

Of what? Say it.


Of Germany.

I've known that for some time pal.

I think maybe the school's are getting worse.  ;D

My mistake.  And yes,  I am aware that the flag I was speaking of was the battle flag, not the national flag.

He lived in Lake Charles, 

One of my best friends and co-workers is from Lake Charles. She drives there every weekend to be with her lesbian luvvah, who is one of the hottest chicks I have ever had the pleasure of seeing erotic photos of.

oo! it's heatin' up in here.

*passes around sundry cudgels, truncheons, and brass knuckles.*


looks like he pulled his punch....take five.

I'm going to open a bar in here...i'll give you some closet space for that stuff^


As long as you're doormen send the undesirables for elimination.

As long as you're doormen send the undesirables for elimination.
Hey wait a minute! I had the undesirable court stenographer read back the minutes of this thread and you just said you were opposed to genocide!

Hey wait a minute! I had the undesirable court stenographer read back the minutes of this thread and you just said you were opposed to genocide!


;) Depends.

In all seriousness now..

I don't particularly condone genocide, it's important to judge individuals and then have them killed.
I think a certain amount of profiling is acceptable however.

;) Depends.

In all seriousness now..

I don't particularly condone genocide, it's important to judge individuals and then have them killed.
I think a certain amount of profiling is acceptable however.
I see. It's sorta like when I tell people, hey, I have a proposition for you and I don't want you to say no right away. And they go, okay, I'll think about it a minute, and then I'll say no.

I see. It's sorta like when I tell people, hey, I have a proposition for you and I don't want you to say no right away. And they go, okay, I'll think about it a minute, and then I'll say no.


You are an odd fella aren't you.

You are an odd fella aren't you.
Coming from a genocidal fascist that really cuts deep. :)

Coming from a genocidal fascist that really cuts deep. :)


Thanks.

You know we love you anyway sonny boy.

ULTRA NATIONALISTIC FASCISM - Why Uncle Bob isn't coming home for Christmas

For all his faults, Stalin got what he wanted to do done. He may have been a communist, but he was efficient.


I wouldn't call Stalin "efficient."  Look at the catastrophic farm collectivization program.  It caused the deaths of millions by famine.  That's just one example. Stalin's government ruled by terror and ruthlessness, but I don't think you can call their ways "efficient."

I wouldn't call Stalin "efficient."  Look at the catastrophic farm collectivization program.  It caused the deaths of millions by famine.  That's just one example. Stalin's government ruled by terror and ruthlessness, but I don't think you can call their ways "efficient."


I was reffering to his abilities in the field of mass killing.

;) Depends.

In all seriousness now..

I don't particularly condone genocide, it's important to judge individuals and then have them killed.
I think a certain amount of profiling is acceptable however.
Like how Hitler 'profiled' the Jews as nothing better than sewer rats? And how he thought that anyone who was not a blue-eyed, blond hair Aryan was 'flawed'?

Like how Hitler 'profiled' the Jews as nothing better than sewer rats? And how he thought that anyone who was not a blue-eyed, blond hair Aryan was 'flawed'?


Funny story...my grandmother was growing up in Germany in the 1930s, in Berlin, as a Jewish girl. A Nazi officer came into class and used her as an example of Aryan youth, with her light brown hair and light brown eyes. She then declared she had a Jewish mother, embarassing the man greatly.

That's great, velvet!^ ;D

I found out in the last year that I'm Jewish too.  My maternal grandmother's mother it turns out was ethnically Jewish.

Funny story...my grandmother was growing up in Germany in the 1930s, in Berlin, as a Jewish girl. A Nazi officer came into class and used her as an example of Aryan youth, with her light brown hair and light brown eyes. She then declared she had a Jewish mother, embarassing the man greatly.


;D


Like how Hitler 'profiled' the Jews as nothing better than sewer rats? And how he thought that anyone who was not a blue-eyed, blond hair Aryan was 'flawed'?


No.
Like, Individual X once stole a car. Next time something funny goes on round there we're coming down on him like a ton of shiit.

We have innocent until proven guilty in this country, buddy.

We have innocent until proven guilty in this country, buddy.


Thanks for the civics lesson  ;)

I'm of the opinion that that isn't always correct.
In France (and I dare say you already know this) you're guilty until proven innocent, and hey, it works.

You should have to prove your innocence. If your innocent, you should be able to prove it.
People will often talk about how this system allows for set-up's.. as if guilty until innocent dosen't  ::)

You're a right-winger, why do you care about what France does?

And they are wrong for having that kind of system if it is true.  And it is in the Constitution so whether people like or not thats how it is.

You're a right-winger, why do you care about what France does?

And they are wrong for having that kind of system if it is true.  And it is in the Constitution so whether people like or not thats how it is.


Ah, I see the Liberal wing of the media has got to you as well.

I'm very right wing.. I'm very French.

Not everyone on the right side of the fence has an issue with France, you'll find it's a small number of ignorant freedom fry eating fools.

I must make a point here. You're fairly obvious intelligent and seem to be pretty up on things so I'll let you in on a secret. 99% of real Conservatives in this country have major issues with the way the Republican Party has been behaving in the past few years. You'll find it's the loud minority of 'Neo' cons that are the Anti-France group  ;)

Dude, wake up from that fantasy world of the "liberal media" boogeyman being behind every thing you dislike.

You can't dispute the fact that what I said is true.  It's in the constitution.  Are you going to try to dispute that we have freedom of the press next?

And I already know that about "real Conservatives" as you say.  But you're not what I think of as a "Conservative".  I'd call you a Fascist.

Btw, be mon chu le fipe tay. That was completely phonetic, because I'm illiterate in French.  I just know how to SPEAK some of it, not read and write. ;)

j/k ;D

Dude, wake up from that fantasy world of the "liberal media" boogeyman being behind every thing you dislike.

You can't dispute the fact that what I said is true.  It's in the constitution.  Are you going to try to dispute that we have freedom of the press next?

And I already know that about "real Conservatives" as you say.  But you're not what I think of as a "Conservative".  I'd call you a Fascist.


You're correct in a way there. I would tend to associate myself with the Conservative side of most issues.. but yes, in many ways I'm very much a fascist.

I don't claim the whole media is the militant arm of the Democratic party, but the whole idea that there are no Liberal media outlets is ridiculous.

I know what you said is true and I'm not disputing that it's in the constitution, that's fine with me, I respect the constitution. That being said, it's my opinion that certain things could be altered on it.

.. and it really makes you look simple when you claim 'And they are wrong for having that kind of system'. Why do you think they're wrong? Is it unjust, unfair?
It's my opinion that it's very fair. They have the same blind justice approach we do. If Justice is blind then it doesn't matter if you're presumed guilty or innocent, theoretically justice should prevail.


Btw, be mon chu le fipe tay. That was completely phonetic, because I'm illiterate in French.  I just know how to SPEAK some of it, not read and write. ;)

j/k ;D


Very phonetic, I'm trying to work out what you said  ;D

"Kiss my a you son of a b". :P

And before anyone gets the wrong idea I'M NOT FLAMING him.  I mean it in a friendly, jousting way. ;)

"Kiss my a you son of a b". :P

And before anyone gets the wrong idea I'M NOT FLAMING him.  I mean it in a friendly, jousting way. ;)


;D S'ok, I can take it.

You get used to it  ;D

dude, that guy with the shaved head and the open shirt is scary-lookin'. hats off if you threw down on him.

this dork also had a swastica tatt on his chest a la Ed Norton American History X, but he exposed it only afterrunning away from me across the street. The cops didn't let me get to him.

It's there right to organize wherever they want.

I challenge you to a duel in your or my backyard anyway, for bragging rights.


the Supreme Court has determined that hate speech in not protected by the 1st Ammendment.
Come down to MacArthur park in downtown Los Angeles with your Nazi flags if you need a demonstration of this.

But no substance.


that's because the cops wouldn't let us take it to the next level.

They're also flying the flag of the United States.

What you have to understand is that the Swastika is no longer that flag of Nazi Germany, it is a symbol for an idealogy.


the idoelogy of genocide

And spider web tattoos on the elbow, wonder how many of them were there?


none that I remember

oo! it's heatin' up in here.

*passes around sundry cudgels, truncheons, and brass knuckles.*


"we're the mighty Red Army of the Macnchester United Soccer Hooligans!!!!"

Thanks for the civics lesson  ;)

I'm of the opinion that that isn't always correct.
In France (and I dare say you already know this) you're guilty until proven innocent, and hey, it works.



Code Napoleon

I'm very right wing.. I'm very French.



yet you admire Hitler who would have exterminated millions of French people

that's because the cops wouldn't let us take it to the next level.


Which is a shame really, I'm sure it would have been hilarious.

yet you admire Hitler who would have exterminated millions of French people


I dare say you admire Rodney King, a criminal.

Same principal.
It's not what what he did that I admire, it's his reasons for doing it.

I dare say you admire Rodney King, a criminal.

Same principal.
It's not what what he did that I admire, it's his reasons for doing it.

Aryan supremacy

Aryan supremacy


To a certain degree.

To a certain degree.


If you're being serious....meh, nevermind.

I cannot bring myself to admire, even slightly, Adolf Hitler, the man who along with his henchmen, was responsible for killing six million people just because they happened to be Jewish!!!

And I hate Stalin just as much as I hate Hitler. He was just as nasty and despicable.

I can't believe anyone would want to be a Klansman, Neo-Nazi, or skinhead. They all are losers IMO. They do stuff like kill innocent people just because certain people are not 'Aryans'...

Why not, he was The Fuhrer..

Easier and cheaper ways to cull.. cull as in eliminate large quantities of..
Have you got anything against those who Hitler exterminated?

Have you got anything against those who Hitler exterminated?


No, this is a common misconception.

I'm not a Nazi in any particular way shape or form.

My political views are basically what you could describe as Fascist and Adolf Hitler is essentially the uber fascist.

The term Fascism has come to be almost solely associated with Nazi Germany, this is a fairly inane idea though. It's a political ideology like Liberalism, Communism, Socialism etc.

I cannot bring myself to admire, even slightly, Adolf Hitler, the man who along with his henchmen, was responsible for killing six million people just because they happened to be Jewish!!!

And I hate Stalin just as much as I hate Hitler. He was just as nasty and despicable.

I can't believe anyone would want to be a Klansman, Neo-Nazi, or skinhead. They all are losers IMO. They do stuff like kill innocent people just because certain people are not 'Aryans'...





Actually, I believe the Holocaust killed a total of around 10 million, including the disabled, the Gypsies, suspected communists and homosexuals, blacks, etc.


No, this is a common misconception.

I'm not a Nazi in any particular way shape or form.

My political views are basically what you could describe as Fascist and Adolf Hitler is essentially the uber fascist.

The term Fascism has come to be almost solely associated with Nazi Germany, this is a fairly inane idea though. It's a political ideology like Liberalism, Communism, Socialism etc.


"You're welcome in the GOP, brother!" :D

No, this is a common misconception.

I'm not a Nazi in any particular way shape or form.

My political views are basically what you could describe as Fascist and Adolf Hitler is essentially the uber fascist.

The term Fascism has come to be almost solely associated with Nazi Germany, this is a fairly inane idea though. It's a political ideology like Liberalism, Communism, Socialism etc.


Wow, I can't believe we have a proud fascist in here.

Wow, I can't believe we have a proud fascist in here.



Believe it.  They get around. Mostly cause their lack of education, and attitude, gives them plenty of time  to
blame every body but themselves for their situation.

Actually, I believe the Holocaust killed a total of around 10 million, including the disabled, the Gypsies, suspected communists and homosexuals, blacks, etc.

"You're welcome in the GOP, brother!" :D
I know that Hitler had disabled people, Gypsies, gays, and other non-'Aryans' killed, and that he killed anyone else who opposed him, including Christians who spoke out against his regime.

Believe it.  They get around. Mostly cause their lack of education, and attitude, gives them plenty of time  to
blame every body but themselves for their situation.
I believe in democracy, and only democracy. I wonder what would happen if La Roche had to live in a fascist country...

To a certain degree.


Aryan supremacy

if Aryans are so superior, why do French people keep getiing their @sses whipped by non-Aryans?

I really hate seeing the Confederate flag used by Nazi's.  Ugh.


Don't like seeing 2 losers side by side?


the femi-Nazi wearing the white tank top in the middle of those pix has reportedly been seen on the UCLA campus wearing a big Confederate flag on her back.

Believe it.  They get around. Mostly cause their lack of education, and attitude, gives them plenty of time  to
blame every body but themselves for their situation.


;D

I don't have a situation. I'm perfectly content in my life thanks all the same.

I find it hilarious that you all decide that UH OH HE DOSEN'T LOVE EVERYONE HE'S EVIL.  ;D


I believe in democracy, and only democracy. I wonder what would happen if La Roche had to live in a fascist country...

I'd go along with the rules and conform.


if Aryans are so superior, why do French people keep getiing their @sses whipped by non-Aryans?


I'm afraid you're going to have to give me an example.
You mean the Muslim riots which were quickly calmed down.

;D

I don't have a situation. I'm perfectly content in my life thanks all the same.

I find it hilarious that you all decide that UH OH HE DOSEN'T LOVE EVERYONE HE'S EVIL.  ;D
I'd go along with the rules and conform.

I'm afraid you're going to have to give me an example.
You mean the Muslim riots which were quickly calmed down.
Well, welcome to the right-wing Christian Coalition lovefest..oh by the way, your seat is right next to Pat Robertson's...

Well, welcome to the right-wing Christian Coalition lovefest..oh by the way, your seat is right next to Pat Robertson's...
actually la roche isn't very religious.

Well, welcome to the right-wing Christian Coalition lovefest..oh by the way, your seat is right next to Pat Robertson's...


See, this is the type of ignorance I laugh at. You fail to see that Fascim is just another political ideology.
Would you be saying these things to a communist?

Totalitarian regimes, in contrast to a dictatorship, establish complete political, social, and cultural control over their subjects, and are usually headed by a charismatic leader.


See? There is a key element missing here.

Charisma.

Totalitarian regimes, in contrast to a dictatorship, establish complete political, social, and cultural control over their subjects, and are usually headed by a charismatic leader.


See? There is a key element missing here.

Charisma.
where's slobo when you need him?

oh yeah! DEAD!

where's slobo when you need him?

oh yeah! DEAD!


It's always the way.

Tia, you simply must listen to moi's parody song to the tune of
The Monkees' television theme entitled
Hey! Hey! We're The Humans


http://www.garageband.com/song?|pe1|S8LTM0LdsaSkaVWyYW8

Stay on Groovin' Safari,
TOR

do you use those giant fonts everywhere to make up for some physical shortcoming?

or is there subliminal advertising hidden beneath the letters?

and what do The Monkees have to do with Hitler?

and what do The Monkees have to do with Hitler?

aside from the fact that they're both on my Buddy List?

aside from the fact that they're both on my Buddy List?



Being the comic genius that you are.....
give me the six degrees of separation for the above.

aside from the fact that they're both on my Buddy List?



STOP PLEASE.

STOP PLEASE.



Now you're just following people around, getting offended..
the best way to not get offended by people is to not read their posts.

Now you're just following people around, getting offended..
the best way to not get offended by people is to not read their posts.



The best way for me not to get offended by people is for them to NOT MAKE FUN OF ME. Hmm, how bout that?

Dude, how many posts are you going to make about your parodies?  We get the point....


NO kidding!

STOP PLEASE.
I swear I'm honestly not trying to hurt your feelings duderino. You keep getting your feelings hurt by stuff that seems to me to be perfectly innocuous!

You want vicious and brutal, you should have seen what they did to poor adam west on "space ghost coast to coast."

SPACE GhoST: Demonstrate your super powers.

ADAM WEST: Actually, I'm just sorta crazy obsessed with fighting crime. I have no super powers.

SPACE GhoST: so. You are a wimp.

ADAM WEST: Wha...? What the hell?

SPACE GhoST: You cannot fight crime. Your show was canceled. I'M STILL ON THE AIR! Hahahahahahaha!

I was like, man. Adam west got harshed.

I swear I'm honestly not trying to hurt your feelings duderino. You keep getting your feelings hurt by stuff that seems to me to be perfectly innocuous!
Yeah...I can't help anymore..I thought I made sense to you but forget it.


You want vicious and brutal, you should have seen what they did to poor adam west on "space ghost coast to coast."

SPACE GhoST: Demonstrate your super powers.

ADAM WEST: Actually, I'm just sorta crazy obsessed with fighting crime. I have no super powers.

SPACE GhoST: so. You are a wimp.

ADAM WEST: Wha...? What the hell?

SPACE GhoST: You cannot fight crime. Your show was canceled. I'M STILL ON THE AIR! Hahahahahahaha!

I was like, man. Adam west got harshed.



Are there credits? who wrote that episode?

I swear I'm honestly not trying to hurt your feelings duderino. You keep getting your feelings hurt by stuff that seems to me to be perfectly innocuous!

You want vicious and brutal, you should have seen what they did to poor adam west on "space ghost coast to coast."

SPACE GhoST: Demonstrate your super powers.

ADAM WEST: Actually, I'm just sorta crazy obsessed with fighting crime. I have no super powers.

SPACE GhoST: so. You are a wimp.

ADAM WEST: Wha...? What the hell?

SPACE GhoST: You cannot fight crime. Your show was canceled. I'M STILL ON THE AIR! Hahahahahahaha!

I was like, man. Adam west got harshed.



:\'( Don't talk about that, it upsets and offends me.

:\'( Don't talk about that, it upsets and offends me.


Definately the life of the party.

Definately the life of the party.


I should have taken your sitting down warning seriously.

I should have taken your sitting down warning seriously.


I told you.  Start a list, though...the person that catches the most from me gets a prize.

I swear I'm honestly not trying to hurt your feelings duderino. You keep getting your feelings hurt by stuff that seems to me to be perfectly innocuous!

You want vicious and brutal, you should have seen what they did to poor adam west on "space ghost coast to coast."

SPACE GhoST: Demonstrate your super powers.

ADAM WEST: Actually, I'm just sorta crazy obsessed with fighting crime. I have no super powers.

SPACE GhoST: so. You are a wimp.

ADAM WEST: Wha...? What the hell?

SPACE GhoST: You cannot fight crime. Your show was canceled. I'M STILL ON THE AIR! Hahahahahahaha!

I was like, man. Adam west got harshed.



Well not everyone sees things the same.

Well not everyone sees things the same.


Finally! after an hour! yes!!!
now hold that thought!

:\'( Don't talk about that, it upsets and offends me.
Moltar: And we're clear.
Space Ghost: Well, that wasn't very good.
Jerry Springer: I'm sorry.
Space Ghost: Oh, no, it's all right, really. You're just not very good.

Zorak: Wow, Denis Leary! I've seen all your movies.
Denis Leary: Thank you, thank you.
Zorak: I didn't think they were very good.

Zorak: What'd you think?

Space Ghost: Welcome back, stupid viewers! You'll watch anything! Go ahead, change the channel. You'll be back!