I really wish I had a link to post here, but i just now heard this on the news for the first time... and it's not on their website yet.. if I can find it tomorrow I will post it...

Anyway.. apparently some gay bar owners in San Francisco have been restricting patronage to gays only.  So I hear on the radio that they are trying to pass a law requiring gay bars to allow straight people to come in.  And some gay people are mad about this.  One bar owner they interviewed complained that straight men go in there to watch the lesbians make out.

A couple problems here.  First of all, I can't believe it would be legal to prohibit someone from entering a public establishment based on their orientation.  But apparently it is, since they said they are trying to pass a law...

Secondly, why on earth are these people who are supposedly anti-discrimination suddenly supporting discrimination as long as it isn't against them?

Don't get me wrong, I support gay rights and all... but these few gay people are hurting their own cause!!

Jeez.  That's sad.

Like I've said, being an extremist only causes harm and furthers the opposing cause. 

Myself, I think that if they allow this, it just gives every racist group the ammunition to deny entry to anybody else.  It is stupid, and intollerant.

It reminds me so much of this classic Doonsbury strip:

How will they know whether or not you're gay?  Will they make you take a "Are you a homo?" quiz and based on your answers, either allow or disallow admittance?  That's patently ridiculous.

Imagine how much ire straights would get if a regular bar wanted to prohibit homosexuals from patronizing the place. 


Or what about "Whites Only" establishments?


Oh wait................we did that already.  ::)

These same people are the type of people who give us a bad name as finicky, elitist snobs who care more about our loafers than our hearts, souls, and minds. Let them all be burned in a gay bar somewhere on 8th Avenue in Chelsea, after a session at the gym and the fabric store. Sorry... ;), I really hate elitist gay culture.

In grad school I went with some G&L friends to a lesbian bar and every guy there had to be accompanied by a woman. And they lectured me at the door, I wasn't to approach a woman I didn't know, I wasn't to look at any woman in an untoward fashion and I could be kicked out at any time for any reason.

Kinda hard to have a good time after something like that.

that's just a crazy idea.  I just don't understand their logic in trying to separate people. There are gay friends and straight friends...and when friends go out...sometimes they go to gay bars and sometimes to straight bars....does it really matter who goes to which one?  Like it was mentioned before...as long as the "straight" people aren't causing trouble (harassing people, etc.)...what is the problem with them being there?

Meh...it's San Fran, it's their hissy fit, let them figger it out!
::)

I really hate ANY elitist culture ;)


That's the reason I'm moving to Chicago once I turn 18.

That's the reason I'm moving to Chicago once I turn 18.



Ah, my beautiful, wonderful hometown. 

Whereabouts in Chicago are you from? I'm planning to go to UChicago then move to Lakeview after I'm done, or the Andersonville/Roscoe Village area, or Skokie.

How do they enforce that, really?  Post a psychic at the door?

(This reminds me of Affirmative Action, except there's no clear physical standard.) 

Ah, San Fransisco.  How you put our country to shame.

A couple problems here.  First of all, I can't believe it would be legal to prohibit someone from entering a public establishment based on their orientation.  But apparently it is, since they said they are trying to pass a law...

Secondly, why on earth are these people who are supposedly anti-discrimination suddenly supporting discrimination as long as it isn't against them?

Don't get me wrong, I support gay rights and all... but these few gay people are hurting their own cause!!


You know, even to us San Jose-an's, San Francisco kinda seems like another world away, doesn't it? ;)

Really though, that's very well said. For the record, I have a few gay friends/acquaintences, and fully support gay rights, so keep in mind, I'm not speaking from my own bias at all.

BTW, I believe the "root" of this kind of thought actually comes from the right place (wanting acceptance among gays to be the same as it is among straight people by society in general). However, what they're doing about it in "extremest/reverse discrimination" fashion like this definitely isn't coming from the right place.

While it would be nice if predjudice and discrimination no longer existed towards anyone, something like this ain't gonna help. Like I've said, the best way to make something not an issue, is to really make it not an issue. Saying that someone who is gay can't go into a certain place is just as bad as saying someone who IS NOT gay can do the same.

Are you sure that this story is true? I have done a short search and couldn't find anything on it. (Nothing personal against you Odyssey-I know you are just repeating what you heard.) It is quite possible that this story was created by people who want to show that gays are elitists so therefore they must be "bad".

IF and only IF this is true, then I agree with everyone else that it takes the gay-rights movement back several paces. Equal rights is equal rights-FOR ALL, not just for the chosen few (whichever chosen group it may be-gays, blacks, hispanics, Christians, Jews, etc. etc.)



Cat

Are you sure that this story is true? I have done a short search and couldn't find anything on it. (Nothing personal against you Odyssey-I know you are just repeating what you heard.) It is quite possible that this story was created by people who want to show that gays are elitists so therefore they must be "bad".

IF and only IF this is true, then I agree with everyone else that it takes the gay-rights movement back several paces. Equal rights is equal rights-FOR ALL, not just for the chosen few (whichever chosen group it may be-gays, blacks, hispanics, Christians, Jews, etc. etc.)



Cat


I can't find anything on the specific S.F. story I was talking about... (I actually forgot to go back and check until now) but I do recall in the piece they said something about a law that was recently passed in London prohibiting the barring of straights from gay bars... and I found a reference to that.. I guess the S.F. thing hasn't really developed into anything yet?  But here's the same sort of thing going on in London.

http://www.gaynz.com/news/default.asp?dismode=article&artid=3266

Secondly, why on earth are these people who are supposedly anti-discrimination suddenly supporting discrimination as long as it isn't against them?



Like I've said, being an extremist only causes harm and furthers the opposing cause. 



This is ridiculous.  First, how can a bar owner tell if someone is gay or not?  I know that they claim to have "gaydar" and all, but come on.....as long as the "straight" people aren't causing problems (i.e.fights, etc), why do they care?  Second, I know straight people with gay friends/relatives who go to gay bars simply so they can spend time with their friends/family.  Are they going to say "you can come in, but your straight brother can't?"  I can see THAT causing more problems than a few guys watching lesbians make out.  If they're making out in public, why should it be any different having a guy watch them than a woman?  Do they think that other lesbians aren't watching them?  PUHLEEZE ::)


Myself, I think that if they allow this, it just gives every racist group the ammunition to deny entry to anybody else.  It is stupid, and intollerant.


that's just a crazy idea.


Ah, San Fransisco.  How you put our country to shame.


spoken like the kind of people who don't have to worry about getting skull bashed-in,when walking down the street, due to their sexual orientation

spoken like the kind of people who don't have to worry about getting skull bashed-in,when walking down the street, due to their sexual orientation


Getting your skull bashed-in when just walking down the street is not something that happens only to gay people.  It can also happen just
because you are female, just because you are Jewish, just because you are African American, just because you don't speak English, etc, etc...

I wonder if they would discriminate against a bisexual?  I can't stand gay/lesbians who think you have to be ALL or NOTHING.  :P

Getting your skull bashed-in when just walking down the street is not something that happens only to gay people.  It can also happen just
because you are female, just because you are Jewish, just because you are African American, just because you don't speak English, etc, etc...


true, but this thread deals with sexual orientation, and the feeling that some gay people need a haven from the hetero-majority.

true, but this thread deals with sexual orientation, and the feeling that some gay people need a haven from the hetero-majority.



For this to happen then they must, like any group looking to be exclusive, have private clubs.