Well once again we see the small-minded nature of Islamists, where Moslems BY THE THOUSANDS have staged violent protests, breaking into embassies, chanting for "death to the infidels" and all sort of mayhem, all because of a few cartoons run in the European press.

In all fairness, we do not see American or Canadian moslems acting like babies, maybe my comments should be directed at "Moslem countries".

Don't these people have anything better to do than whimper and throw tantrums and blow each other up?

When was the last time you heard of Jews BY THE THOUSANDS breaking into embassies, and so on, or Rabbis issuing fatwas?  Seen any Catholics BY THE THOUSANDS chanting "death to Islam" or throw tantrums when moslems make rude remarks about Christianity?

Every religion has its flakes and extremists, but Islam seems to be the one where people show up en masse to create mayhem and violence.  Over what?  A stupid cartoon?  You did not see the Christians trying to burn down buildings when Mappelthorpe put his anti-Christ drivel on display.

Prediction:  By the end of all of this, dozens of moslems will be killed by their fellow "believers" as a result of all this childish, mindless mayhem.

It is sad.  centuries ago, the moslem countries were at the top of technology, mathematics, and architecture.  But somewhere along the line they became devoted to mayhem and their own destruction.

All revealed religions (that is, those who claim to know the secrets of the Universe) are childish and intolerant, to some degree.

[quote author=Ły

Just like those Filipino Islamic Extremists in Bali and the Phillipines terrorizing there? Must also be the Arabs doing that as well.

[quote author=Ły

Just like those Filipino Islamic Extremists in Bali and the Phillipines terrorizing there? Must also be the Arabs doing that as well.


So you agree that it's Islam as a whole?

You can apply this statement equally to every organized religion.

Its all santeria and chicken sacrifices to me.  :D

So you agree that it's Islam as a whole?


No, I agree that there are extreme factions in this religion as there are in every other religion. Such factions tend to get the most notice.

Short on memory.  It was the Bosnian Christians who perpertrated a genocide against Muslims killing 200,000 Muslims.
I will repeat Christians killed 200,000 Muslims.  Christians have tried to sanitized the reports by using a nationalist(Serbs)
designation. 

Short on memory.  It was the Bosnian Christians who perpertrated a genocide against Muslims killing 200,000 Muslims.
I will repeat Christians killed 200,000 Muslims.  Christians have tried to sanitized the reports by using a nationalist(Serbs)
designation. 


And if I recall correctly, it was "predominantly" christian nations who put a stop to the Bosnian crimes as well, led by the United States of America  (The UN, as usual, proved to be impotent and cowardly in Bosnia, until Clinton got involved).  Did we see Christians throughout the world marching and chanting in support of the Serbs?  Chanting "death to the Bosnian Muslims"?

Like I've said before, Islam doesn't condone this type of behavior... that religion is just their sorry excuse for their actions... but they could have just as easily claimed to do all this crap in the name of Christianity...  most Muslims strongly condemn these actions...


I would not agree with your "Most Muslims" remark.  if it were accurate, Islam would not have the image of terrorism, severe repression of women, and intolerance that it has.  The majority of Moslems that you speak of would be out marching in the streets, putting out the real word.  But they are not.  And by their silence they are wholly complicit.

I do give some credit to Imam Al-Sistani in iraq.  He commented that (words to the effect) "The actions of terrorists and extremists have given Islam this bad image, that is why the Europeans made those drawings of Mohammed".  It is very rare to see someone in his position make a statement like that.  I imagine by now somebody has put out a fatwa on him or has marched on and burned down his mosque.


By the way, I do not believe it to be an "Arab issue".  Iranians are not Arab, they are Persian.  Afghanistan (home of the Taliban) is not an Arab nation either.

[quote author=Ły

What I am about to say does not in any way condone the violence that's going on right now, but here goes:  Why on Earth did the European newspapers publish these cartoons in the first place? I am a firm believer in free speech and all, but seriously, what did they expect? What good did it accomplish? What purpose did publishing these cartoons serve other than throwing more fuel on the fire? 


My understanding is that the original Danish paper that started it all felt that in Europe, journalists were "self censoring" due to fear of backlash by moslems.  So they ran a contest for the best "picture of Mohammed" (If I recall correctly) to get some non-censored dialogue going.

We live in a society where people freely disrespect the Catholic Church or other Christian religions, and if you argue against any of that you are called "anti free speech".  But if you say anything negative about moslems you are tagged as a "hate monger".  I think that was the point of the original article.

As for the newspapers who subsequently reprinted the cartoons?  I think it was a case of Europeans telling the moslem world "up yours".  After launching a mass emigation to Euriope, many moslems now feel that they must always criticize England, France, Germany, and so on even thiugh they self-segregate and failed to assimilate into their host countries.  So the European press basically took this cance to tell the moslems to go pack sand.  Note:  You did not see the European press marching in the streets and breaking into Arab/Moslem country embassies and lighting them on fire.  They just printed images.

The scene in Lawrence of Arabia that shows that the Arabs, when put in charge of Damascus, could not find their backsides with both hands.  That is the mentality we see these days with the moslem and arab populace.  Nothing but mayhem or support for it, little in the way of serious creation.  And it is too bad.  Some of those countries have fantastic wealth and the CAPABILITY to become ecnomomic powerhouses and raise the living standards of their people.  If they spent more time going to school to learn science and real history, and less time learning how to create mayhem and hate Jews and Gentiles in the name of islam, they could really accomplish things.

[quote author=Ły

Isn't it fun to be a bigot!  Oh Awchie!
::)

Can you condemn a man
If your faith he doesn't hold
Say the color of his skin
Is the color of his soul
Could you say that men
For king and country all must die
Well then mister you're a better man than I


I hold no faith my friend. I view this from an objective point.
When i take a look around the main culprit i can point my finger at is Islam. It is a religion open to abuse. Islam it'self is a lovely peacefull religion, however, Mohammed's interpretations are the problem. That's where all the laws like 'Your woman shall not exist without your permission' bullsheesh comes from.

Judaism and Christianity (that is, the original versions unadulterated by outside forces such as democratic and egalitarian thought) were just as bad as Islam ever was... and Christianity, I wager, has actually brought about more suffering than even the most extreme of islamists could even hope for. There was a time when women had no rights, and heathens were treated worse than sh*t in Judeo-Christian society.

This is not a religious or racial issue; it's a political one. It's beyond ignorant to attempt to say that Islam itself is the problem and not the politically driven extremist superminority within the religion. There are Christians in this country who believe we should stone homosexuals to death. Their f***ed up religion condones it, and it's only our country's poltical culture that keeps them from actually doing it.

We have a better poltitical system than they do, absolutey... but that has nothing to do with the predominant religion over here. Christianity had nothing to do with the concept of democracy.... We have pre-Christian, hedonistic, bisexual, Greek polytheists and the later Enlightenment-age European intelligentsia who all but worshipped them to thank for that.

Judaism and Christianity (that is, the original versions unadulterated by outside forces such as democratic and egalitarian thought) were just as bad as Islam ever was... and Christianity, I wager, has actually brought about more suffering than even the most extreme of islamists could even hope for. There was a time when women had no rights, and heathens were treated worse than sh*t in Judeo-Christian society.

This is not a religious or racial issue; it's a political one. It's beyond ignorant to attempt to say that Islam itself is the problem and not the politically driven extremist superminority within the religion. There are Christians in this country who believe we should stone homosexuals to death. Their f***ed up religion condones it, and it's only our country's poltical culture that keeps them from actually doing it.

We have a better poltitical system than they do, absolutey... but that has nothing to do with the predominant religion over here. Christianity had nothing to do with the concept of democracy.... We have pre-Christian, hedonistic, bisexual, Greek polytheists and the later Enlightenment-age European intelligentsia who all but worshipped them to thank for that.



I agree.  Christianity is just as bad, it just exists in more "civilized" nations, so it's put under control.  If the Church became the state, it would be a disaster.

I don't hate anyone because of their faith, or lack of faith...it's silly to judge the actions of all people of a faith/religion on the actions of a few.

Short on memory.  It was the Bosnian Christians who perpertrated a genocide against Muslims killing 200,000 Muslims.
I will repeat Christians killed 200,000 Muslims.  Christians have tried to sanitized the reports by using a nationalist(Serbs)
designation. 


...and the current christian crusade and against the Muslim nation of Iraq has killed at least as many. Won't the the blood-thirsty, bellicose christians ever learn?

...and the current christian crusade and against the Muslim nation of Iraq has killed at least as many. Won't the the blood-thirsty, bellicose christians ever learn?


...note that it was the Christians who broke up the fight in Bosnia.

When did you ever see a moslem country brek up ANY fight?

As for your commentary about the Christian crusaders in Iraq.  Fair enough.  Now... please explain why the majority of deaths in Iraq are dead moslems killed by their fellow moslems.  It is not Christians or Jews wearing those explosive belts.

I'd like to see your explanation of that, the next time a moslem blows himself up in a room full of moslem school children, like they did in Beslan.

[quote author=Ły

...note that it was the Christians who broke up the fight in Bosnia.
1.note that it was genocidal christians who caused the problems in the first place. It is like awarding the proverbial medal to the abusive parent the second he/she stops beating the kids.
2. it took the allies only about 8 years to respond, and by that time many tens of thousands of innocent Muslim were raped/exterminated by christians. THANK YOU JESUS!!!


When did you ever see a moslem country brek up ANY fight?
when did you EVER see a christian turn down a chance to exterminate so-called heathens?

As for your commentary about the Christian crusaders in Iraq.  Fair enough.  Now... please explain why the majority of deaths in Iraq are dead moslems killed by their fellow moslems.  It is not Christians or Jews wearing those explosive belts.
the resistance targets the Iraqis who collaborate with the christian crusaders. If the christian crusaders/invaders were to leave tomorrow, the suicide bombeings would stop.

I'd like to see your explanation of that, the next time a moslem blows himself up in a room full of moslem school children, like they did in Beslan.


...and I'd like to see your explanation the next time an entire group of people are exterminated/enslaved/ subjugated by christians in the name of Jesus, like they did in...
India
Australia
N.America
S.America
S.E. Asia

I would not deny there are serious problems specific to Islam, however, the American Right uses "Islam" as a scapegoat for problems that really originate with Western imperialism.  This problem precedes 9/11/01 by decades.  The late Edward Said was commenting on this phenomenon at least as far back as the 1970s.

What other religion, race, or ethnicity could Ann Coulter say we should conquer and convert to Christianity? 

Oh I LOVE it when people make generalizations about religions.  Not all Islamics agree with what is going on in the Middle East.  They do disagree with the protrayal of Mohamad in the caroon, but they think the violence is being caused by the extremists.
You're going to have extrmeists in every religion.  I know a few Muslims and they do not agree with what's going on. 

I hold no faith my friend. I view this from an objective point.
When i take a look around the main culprit i can point my finger at is Islam. It is a religion open to abuse. Islam it'self is a lovely peacefull religion, however, Mohammed's interpretations are the problem. That's where all the laws like 'Your woman shall not exist without your permission' bullsheesh comes from.
I know Muslims in the condo complex where I live, and they don't treat me like dirt...Neither are they conspiring to blow this country to kingdom come. Let's have some open-mindedness here. To say all who practice Islam are 'fanatics' is a huge untruth!

[quote author=Ły

Well, they have that image because they claim to be doing this in the name of Islam.


What are they doing it for then?  I'm not saying you're wrong, but I doubt it's simply for the love of violence.  Or at least I hope not.

What are they doing it for then?  I'm not saying you're wrong, but I doubt it's simply for the love of violence.  Or at least I hope not.


Well, not so much for the love of violence but because that's what they're being taught by other extremists...  Alot of it has to do with Palestine and hatred for anyone who recognizes Israel...you could compare it to the KKK and then imagine that the KKK continued to claim that their beliefs were based on the bible and the Catholic faith... and they started recruiting Catholics and convincing them that whites were superior to other races... and people here weren't educated enough to know it was B.S.... Catholics could have gotten a bad name if it went on long enough..

I thought most of the KKK was Presbyterian (or was it Pentecostal)?  Not that it matters, the point is still the same :)

Protestant, mostly Baptist.  A lot of Klan chapters had names such as "The Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan."   BTW, they despised Catholics ("Papists") almost as much as Jews.


Well, not so much for the love of violence but because that's what they're being taught by other extremists...  Alot of it has to do with Palestine and hatred for anyone who recognizes Israel...you could compare it to the KKK and then imagine that the KKK continued to claim that their beliefs were based on the bible and the Catholic faith... and they started recruiting Catholics and convincing them that whites were superior to other races... and people here weren't educated enough to know it was B.S.... Catholics could have gotten a bad name if it went on long enough..


The Western press is often blindly pro-Israel.  A lot of stuff that would make Israel look like the aggressor and the bully it is doesn't even get reported in the mainstream media.  I'm not saying the Palestinians are a bunch of saints either, but Israel is the conquering nation with all the power and all the money.

I thought most of the KKK was Presbyterian (or was it Pentecostal)?  Not that it matters, the point is still the same :)


Could very well be... that was just a hypothetical.  :)  Heck, they could have claimed to be Jewish, Buddhist or whatever... but if people were uneducated and convinced that God wanted it that way, and other races were a threat to their wellbeing, we would have a bunch of extremists too... and outsiders would probably lump the whole religion into that category just like many do with Islam.

Could very well be... that was just a hypothetical.   :)  Heck, they could have claimed to be Jewish, Buddhist or whatever... but if people were uneducated and convinced that God wanted it that way, and other races were a threat to their wellbeing, we would have a bunch of extremists too... and outsiders would probably lump the whole religion into that category just like many do with Islam.

It is the educated, rich, and powerful corporate-political class that pitted poor whites against poor blacks in this country.  Better have them beat up on eachother than beat up on the dirty bastids in charge of the whole phony operation!

[quote author=Ły

If Bush the Second has his way...people here would be persecuted for being followers of Islam..I can just see it now...congressional hearings about the supposed evils of Islam just like the McCarthy era Communist paranoia...some Congress hack asking someone they are investigating "Are you,or have you ever been, a member of a Muslim mosque or masjid?"...even blacklisting would be brought back!

If Bush the Second has his way...people here would be persecuted for being followers of Islam..I can just see it now...congressional hearings about the supposed evils of Islam just like the McCarthy era Communist paranoia...some Congress hack asking someone they are investigating "Are you,or have you ever been, a member of a Muslim mosque or masjid?"...even blacklisting would be brought back!


Oh please!  That is simply ignorant.

And by the way, the questioning about "Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party" was not McCarthy, but the House Un-American Activities Comission.  McCarthy had nothing to do with that, being a Senator.

And the HUAC was started by John W. McCormack and Samuel Dickstein, who were both Democrats.

HUAC is the group that persecuted civilians and actors, and did the blacklisting.  McCarthy was only interested in people who actually worked for the US Government in sensitive areas.

Not too far from me, in Brigantine NJ, a Muslim family's house was vandalized by skinheads...the perps sprayed anti-Muslim sayings and slurs all over the property, smashed all the windows, painted a swastika on the front door, and killed the family pets....and people here talk about followers of Islam being childish and intolerant.

Not too far from me, in Brigantine NJ, a Muslim family's house was vandalized by skinheads...the perps sprayed anti-Muslim sayings and slurs all over the property, smashed all the windows, painted a swastika on the front door, and killed the family pets....and people here talk about followers of Islam being childish and intolerant.


You can't blame the actions of Skinheads on the President.  No more then you can blame the actions of anybody else.  They were around long before Bush became President, and they will be around long after he leaves.

And I hope those fragging pracks are caught and get nice long vacations in Club Fed.  I have no tolerance for racists.  They are simply ignorant trash, and should be treated like it.

This is why I am fighting against one of our local candidates for Lieutenant Governor.  This is going to be the first time in almost 8 years that I am actually going to be involved in a political campaign.

You can't blame the actions of Skinheads on the President.  No more then you can blame the actions of anybody else.  They were around long before Bush became President, and they will be around long after he leaves.

She wasn't blaming Bush for their actions: merely comparing it to the title of this thread... and she definitely has a point, in that there are childish and intolerant Americans (as well as Muslims, Brits and pretty much any other large grouping you care to mention, it'll have its childish, intolerant members)

Thing is, from here we see the actions of the more extreme and infer that the rest of the Muslim population is like that; from their perspective, they see the worst in our society and assume the same.  Sigh.

When the Soviet Union tried to annex Afganistan, we were one of the few countries to send aid to them.  And there were no strings attached either.  Once they won their war, we quietly backed away, and let them set their own course.  No big corporations stepped in, demanding that they allow mineral or import/export rights. 


...that's because Afghanistan has relatively few natural resources to exploit (compared to, say, Iraq. The aid to the Afghans was more of a case of "The enemy of my enemy..."

Not too far from me, in Brigantine NJ, a Muslim family's house was vandalized by skinheads...the perps sprayed anti-Muslim sayings and slurs all over the property, smashed all the windows, painted a swastika on the front door, and killed the family pets....and people here talk about followers of Islam being childish and intolerant.


Of course every "religion" has its whackos, no question about that.  Random acts of hate come from all corners.  But when was the last time in modern times when you heard, for example, the Pope come out and say "we oughtta snuff Syria" or "I'll pay $1,000,000 for the head of the guy who painted a rude cartoon"?  How many Presbyterian Ministers are conducting classes in jihad, making explosive belts?  I'll reserve comment on Israel and its Jewish leaders, only because its politics and religious stuff are so intertwined over there.

And yes in medieval times, Christian church figures conducted some nasty persecution.  But the overall populace became educated and refined and stopped this crap (again except for a couple of whack jobs like Pat Robertson, and even he does not have people walking into mosques and blowing themselves up).

But yesterday Nigeria snuffed another 15 of its own moslems in the cartoon wars, all in the name of defending the "honor" of the Great Prophet.  Brings the global tally up to over 40 if I've counted right.  I stand by my "childish and intolerant" comment.  I wonder how many moslems have to kill themselves to restore The Honor of the Great Prophet? ???

Largely childish because their global tantrum has done nothing but murder their own people.

[quote author=Ły

...that's because Afghanistan has relatively few natural resources to exploit (compared to, say, Iraq. The aid to the Afghans was more of a case of "The enemy of my enemy..."


Wait, what about that pipeline?  I thought the entire reason for attacking Afganistan was to allow a pipeline to go through.

And actually, Afganistan has some rather substantial natural resources.  Rubies, Diamonds, Lapis Lazuli, Quartz, Amber, Garnet, Amethyst, Copper, Iron, Tungsten, Uranium, and the list goes on and on.

They simply have no oil.  I am sure if there was oil, people would be screaming "Oil War" there as well.

Of course, we also got involved in Haiti, Lebanon, SOmalia, and Yugoslavia for their oil as well, right?

Hey, I went to high school with Muslim teens...they did not want to kill anyone who offended them.

To say Islam is a populace of the childish and intolerant is too broad of a statement. Like every Muslim on earth is a terrorist or budding terrorist. Simply not true.

Hey, I went to high school with Muslim teens...they did not want to kill anyone who offended them.

To say Islam is a populace of the childish and intolerant is too broad of a statement. Like every Muslim on earth is a terrorist or budding terrorist. Simply not true.


Or that every Christian is a Fundamentalist, who wants to turn the clock back on Abortion.

Or that every Conservative is a racist, who wants to bring back Jim Crowe.

Or that every Republican thinks that the world should work off of some Darwinian rule, and that lower class people should starve and slave away, grateful they have a job.

I always find it fascinating in here how some stereotypes seem perfectly acceptible, while others are to be reviled.