Georgia closer to requiring photo ID to vote
CNN
01/24/2006

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- After several hours of at-times racially charged debate, the Georgia Senate approved a bill Tuesday requiring voters to provide photo identification. The measure is likely to become law.

The bill would require voters to have a driver's license, military ID or state-issued identification card with a photo. It removes several forms of ID currently accepted, including Social Security cards, birth certificates and utility bills.

The bill passed 32-22, largely along party lines, with only one Republican voting against it.

The measure must return to the House for a vote on minor Senate changes. Republican Gov. Sonny Perdue, who must sign it into law, has said he supports it.

Supporters said the bill is an effort to crack down on voter fraud.

GOP Sen. Cecil Staton called critics' comparisons to the poll taxes of the segregation-era South unfair, saying his effort was about protecting the constitutional right to vote.

Critics argued that the measure disenfranchises the poor, the elderly and minorities, who are less likely to have driver's licenses. They charged that it's an effort by majority Republicans to make voting more difficult for blocs that don't tend to support them.

"This is not about voter identification, but rather a voter constriction bill," said Democratic Sen. Ed Harbison. "This ultimately will have a chilling effect."

The bill needs the approval of the U.S. Justice Department before it can take effect. Georgia, like other states with a segregationist past, needs federal approval for any change in its voting laws.

The Justice Department approved the same law last year, but a federal judge blocked it, saying it amounted to an unconstitutional poll tax. Most voters who didn't already have approved identification would have paid $35 for a state ID.

This year's bill waives the fee and gives counties equipment to issue the cards.

Tuesday's debate, which took up virtually all of a seven-hour Senate session, failed to reach the highly emotional level of last year's -- when one senator brandished shackles, saying the effort reminded him of slavery, and black Democrats led a walkout after the vote.

According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, voters in 21 other states are asked to show identification before voting. In six states -- Florida, Hawaii, Indiana, Louisiana, South Carolina and South Dakota -- voters must show photo ID; the 15 other states accept other forms of identification.

Link

A question from an outsider.  Are you sent any form of card telling you were to go and vote?  This is all we need to produce (in fact you can just give your name and address I think)

In NY we have a voter registration card issued by the county in which you reside.
There is no photo and I don't think that expense is necessary.

We are not talking about a special voter card here.  They simply require some form of legal ID.

Drivers License, state ID card, military ID, Passport.  Something to verify they are who they say they are.

That is something every adult should have anyways, and I think it is a great idea.

Makes sense to me.

If the initiative is a Republican-affiliated effort, its purpose is to reduce the number of poor people and people of color who may cast a ballot.  You can make book on that.  The rest of it is circumlocution and subterfuge.  If you are likely to vote Democrat, they don't want you to vote at all.

I have never been asked for an ID to vote, only to confirm my name and street address.  I am 100% against the positive ID requirement.  It tells me the government doesn't trust the people.  That is, the government doesn't trust the people to do what the government wants them to do.  Mistrust involves fear between the people and the government, and government at odds with interests of the majority of people.
The Republicans control the entire government.  They have had since 1994 an express agenda to destroy the Democratic Party with the help of the corporate media.  Our leadership will not address an unfiltered public crowd because they are so widely hated.  This is a problem.  This is a harbinger of the death of democracy.

Considering how important the process of voting is, you'd think there'd already be stronger measures in place to prevent voter fraud. I'm occasionally frightened by how easy it is to just go and steal someone's vote. You can just steal a person's voter card from out of their mailbox, and then pretend to be them on election day. I actually can't believe providing a valid photo ID isn't already a requirement for voting.

Of course, there's many people who aren't in possession of a valid photo ID, like the poor, the disabled and the elderly, so it might not be fair to them. But then, if the government were to issue mandatory national ID cards to everyone, that wouldn't be a problem(yet another reason for their use).

Privacy advocates might not like national ID cards, but thanks to modern technology, it's now easier than ever for governments to create databases of all their citizens and provide them with electronically trackable ID cards.

If the initiative is a Republican-affiliated effort, its purpose is to reduce the number of poor people and people of color who may cast a ballot.  You can make book on that.


What??  Do you mean to imply that poor people do not have ID cards Max?  Are you saying that minorities do not have drivers licenses?


Of course, there's many people who aren't in possession of a valid photo ID, like the poor, the disabled and the elderly, so it might not be fair to them.


Once again, how many disabled or elderly do not have ID cards?  You mean they do not have to cash checks, use a credit card, apply for state or Federal aid, travel, fly an airplane, or many of the other things you need an IS card to do?

I have had an ID card since I was 14.  That was when I got my first drivers license.  And I have had one (or more) ever since then.  Even now, I have my California ID, my Alabama ID, my Alabama Drivers License, and my Passport.  I also have my VA card, which some places recognize as ID.

I know that in California, it is the law that every adult has to carry some form of legal ID on them at all times.  And it is also the law in many other areas as well.  We have to have it to fly, take a bus, ride on a train, drive, cash a check, and a great many things.  Should voting be any less protected?

And enough with the "dienfranchizing the minorities/poor/elderly" stuff already.  You might as well claim that having a drivers license at all prevents them from driving.

And once again, those with no ID can just use an absentee ballot.  I heard somewhere that just over half of the elderly vote by that means anyways.  And I am sure that people who are disabled (like the blind) already have in place something like that.

What??  Do you mean to imply that poor people do not have ID cards Max?  Are you saying that minorities do not have drivers licenses?


No, that's not what I mean to imply. 

No, that's not what I mean to imply. 


So what is being implied?

This bill passed last year and a federal judge ruled in unconstitutional because IDs cost 35 dollars and he said that was a poll tax.  This bill is exactly the same as the last one, except it makes IDs in Georgia free, so it will be upheld by the judge.  It shouldn't be a problem.

No reason should anyone be allowed to vote without proving beyond a reasonable doubt who they are.  Fraud is not our friend.

What??  Do you mean to imply that poor people do not have ID cards Max?  Are you saying that minorities do not have drivers licenses?

Once again, how many disabled or elderly do not have ID cards?  You mean they do not have to cash checks, use a credit card, apply for state or Federal aid, travel, fly an airplane, or many of the other things you need an IS card to do?

I have had an ID card since I was 14.  That was when I got my first drivers license.  And I have had one (or more) ever since then.  Even now, I have my California ID, my Alabama ID, my Alabama Drivers License, and my Passport.  I also have my VA card, which some places recognize as ID.

I know that in California, it is the law that every adult has to carry some form of legal ID on them at all times.  And it is also the law in many other areas as well.  We have to have it to fly, take a bus, ride on a train, drive, cash a check, and a great many things.  Should voting be any less protected?

And enough with the "dienfranchizing the minorities/poor/elderly" stuff already.  You might as well claim that having a drivers license at all prevents them from driving.

And once again, those with no ID can just use an absentee ballot.  I heard somewhere that just over half of the elderly vote by that means anyways.  And I am sure that people who are disabled (like the blind) already have in place something like that.


Well, you have to keep in mind that there's many reasons that common forms of photo identification like driver's licences and passports are inaccessible to people. For instance, elderly and disabled people can't drive, so they won't have licences. And don't forget, owning a car costs money, so the poor often tend not to drive, as well. They rely on public transportation to get around.

I suppose if you don't have a car, you can still get a driver's licence. But to do that, you have to take and pass a test of your driving skills. And you're often charged a fee for doing this(where I live, for example, they charge you $80 for you to take the road test and $50 to issue you your licence). There's many people who can't do these things, or just choose not to.

And the poor tend not to own credit cards, either. You have to meet certain requirements before a bank or financial institution will issue you a credit card, which excludes many people.

Poor people also don't do a lot of travelling, since plane tickets are rather expensive. Because of this, they're less likely to own passports. And anyway, you usually have to meet certain requirements and pay a fee before the government will issue you a passport. I, myself, know several people who don't own passports.

The only two forms of photo identification I happen to have right now are my driver's licence and my passport, and as I said, there's many reasons why people might not have these things.

If the initiative is a Republican-affiliated effort, its purpose is to reduce the number of poor people and people of color who may cast a ballot.  You can make book on that.

It's a question of intensions, intensions, intension...and the Republicans have proven time and again what their intentions are!

Well, you have to keep in mind that there's many reasons that common forms of photo identification like driver's licences and passports are inaccessible to people. For instance, elderly and disabled people can't drive, so they won't have licences. And don't forget, owning a car costs money, so the poor often tend not to drive, as well. They rely on public transportation to get around.

I suppose if you don't have a car, you can still get a driver's licence. But to do that, you have to take and pass a test of your driving skills. And you're often charged a fee for doing this(where I live, for example, they charge you $80 for you to take the road test and $50 to issue you your licence). There's many people who can't do these things, or just choose not to.

Poor people also don't do a lot of travelling, since plane tickets are rather expensive. Because of this, they're less likely to own passports. And anyway, you usually have to meet certain requirements and pay a fee before the government will issue you a passport. I, myself, know several people who don't own passports.


That is what state ID cards are for.  They normally cost $25 or less, and are legal ID.  I own 2 of them, and you do not have to drive in order to get one.  And there is no test required either.  And if transportation is a problem, I am sure that every community has at least one group that would provide transportation to get one.  Just like almost everywhere has a group that will provide van pool services, shoping services, even hot meals at home.

One thing I never except is excuses for failure.  If you make lists and lists of reasons why you will fail, then you will fail.  I am all for empowering people, and part of that is doing whatever I can to help them do things.

If the initiative is a Republican-affiliated effort, its purpose is to reduce the number of poor people and people of color who may cast a ballot.  You can make book on that.


Thank you.

The more difficult they make it to vote, the more red tape they punt in front of the process, the less working people will turn up. Their goal in a nutshell.

Isn't it enough that they've stripped convicted felons who have served their time of their right to vote in many states? We all know why they did that.

Thank you.

The more difficult they make it to vote, the more red tape they punt in front of the process, the less working people will turn up. Their goal in a nutshell.

Isn't it enough that they've stripped convicted felons who have served their time of their right to vote in many states? We all know why they did that.


Oh yes, those drivers licenses are made in order to make it more difficult to drive.  And their goal is to make it harder to drive.

The same with your bank.  How dare they adk for you to show your ID when you want to draw out YOUR money!

I simply do not understand the resistance to show Government officials your ID.  We show it almost every day to prove who we are.  I showed it today to buy a pack of smokes, and the gal sees me every week.  Are you saying that voting should be less protected then driving, smoking, or drinking alcohol?

At least if they required ID to vote in places like CHicago, it will prevent all those corpses from voting every year.

Can I see your ID?  Hmmm, this sure doesn't look like you, I am sorry, you will have to return with a
white male Republican to vouch for you.

That is what state ID cards are for.  They normally cost $25 or less, and are legal ID.  I own 2 of them, and you do not have to drive in order to get one.  And there is no test required either.  And if transportation is a problem, I am sure that every community has at least one group that would provide transportation to get one.  Just like almost everywhere has a group that will provide van pool services, shoping services, even hot meals at home.

One thing I never except is excuses for failure.  If you make lists and lists of reasons why you will fail, then you will fail.  I am all for empowering people, and part of that is doing whatever I can to help them do things.
My Atlantic County ID is legal ID, and seniors and the disabled can get it for free when their senior center, adult daycare, psychiatric partial care, or self-help center has the county people come out and sign people up for ID's. And in my town you have to have ID with you when you vote, you don't always have to have your voter registration with you as long as they can verify your address.

Can I see your ID?  Hmmm, this sure doesn't look like you, I am sorry, you will have to return with a
white male Republican to vouch for you.


Exactly. But one of an endless string of possibilities. It's not about "protecting voting" (from whom?), it's about tacking on one more obstacle to discourage people from going through the effort to vote. It's unnecessary in the first place. If people are willing to commit voter fraud, be they plain immigrants or partisan activists, a silly old photo ID will not be an effective boundary for them.

Christ, my brother used to buy smokes with a fake ID.

If people are willing to commit voter fraud, be they plain immigrants or partisan activists, a silly old photo ID will not be an effective boundary for them.

Christ, my brother used to buy smokes with a fake ID.


Well then, using that logic, why require ID for younger adults to buy alcohol?

Some security is better than none.

I agree.  I don't see the big deal about having to show ID.  Yes, sometimes it is annoying, but it's not really THAT difficult.  I have to admit, though that I DO get a bit annoyed when the same person cards me over and over and over again to buy alcohol or smokes.

AFA Chicago goes, with all the scandal revolving around Daley & his "friends" and Ryan & the license for bribes, I don't see this becoming law any time soon. ::)

The only issue I have is that it can be difficult for the elderly/poor to get a state ID.  It makes no sense to me that you have to have an ID to GET an ID.  Here in IL, you have to have 3 forms of ID to get a state ID:  one MUST be a state or federally issued form of ID (i.e. birth certificate, social security card), one can be a DL, one can be a credit card or checking account, and one can be a utility bill (electric, gas, land-line phone or cable).  I've actually seen people get denied a state ID because they didn't have enough "ID" to verify they were who they were.  It makes absolutely no sense to me that even though you have to have all of these to get a DL, a DL is not enough to get a state ID (I know this because I tried to get a state ID when I got my DL renewed and I didn't have anything else) ::)
Do the different counties in Illinois have county ID programs where one can get a legal ID from their county? Just curious. New Jersey has county ID programs that are valid throughout the state....

Can I see your ID?  Hmmm, this sure doesn't look like you, I am sorry, you will have to return with a
white male Republican to vouch for you.
This whole 'ID to vote' thing is CRAZY. What if you had your ID stolen, and you still wanted to vote?

And in New Jersey, don't get a non-driver's ID through the DMV..they charge $25.00, which IMO is highway robbery!

Even if they can't force you to show an ID, they can still put their thumb on the scale.  A couple of other dirty tricks:  Rich, white Repbulican district has five polling precincts and fifty voting machines. Poor, black, Democrat district has one polling place--as far away as possible from the population center--with five voting machines, three of which are broken, and the other two are jerry-rigged.  How about taking poor, rural states such as Mississippi or Kentucky and forcing voters in predominantly black districts to register at the county courthouse only, which may be up to 90 miles away!  How about leafleting poor neighborhoods, where voters may not be as aware of their rights, with leaflets telling they must pay their rent and utility bills and clear all warrants before can register to vote!  How about setting up police roadblocks around all the polls in poor areas...."We don't want no touble 'round here, boy, may I see yer license and registration?"
So there are all kinds of ways to discourage undesirable from voting without making them show ID at the polls!
:o

Well then, using that logic, why require ID for younger adults to buy alcohol?

Some security is better than none.


Security against whom? Would there be anyone attempting to subvert the voting system who could be outsmarted by simple ID requirements? I don't think so. Are most minors able to secure a high-quality fake ID to buy contraban? No way.

Voting is a universal democratic right, buying beer and smokes is not. The process of voting needs to be kept as accessible as possible, beer and smokes do not.

Is an ID requirement going to stop anyone? Legal aliens can get driver's licenses and SSN's, and with a few connections, so can illegals. The ID requirement is useless, ineffective as a means of "security," and therefore we have no need for it.

And what happens if you show up at the polls and find that you've lost or forgotten your ID? No vote? You wouldn't like that very much.

In NY we have a voter registration card issued by the county in which you reside.
There is no photo and I don't think that expense is necessary.


And, in NY you sign the roster.  So they have a signature.  I've voted in Putnam County, Queens and Brooklyn, and they all said they didn't even need to see the card unless you needed help finding your district or something.  The signature should be fine for voting. 

Having said that, though, I can't imagine a person not owning ANY photo ID.  That's just not safe in general.  I think driver's licenses AND non-driver IDs should be free.

Thank you.

The more difficult they make it to vote, the more red tape they punt in front of the process, the less working people will turn up. Their goal in a nutshell.

Isn't it enough that they've stripped convicted felons who have served their time of their right to vote in many states? We all know why they did that.

I know a few people who have been on welfare.*  In the state of Massachusetts, when you apply for welfare they ask you if you have registered to vote.  If you haven't, they hand you a voter registration card.  The departmental worker does not make any political commentary or proffer any advice, he or she just hands the applicant the card to fill out.

Hmmmm...I wonder what we think of that....I just wonder.

*which is now called Emergency Aid to Elderly, Disabled, and Childlren--EADC--in the post-welfare welfare state, and the welfare department is now called the "Department of Transitional Assistance.

Voting is a universal democratic right, buying beer and smokes is not. The process of voting needs to be kept as accessible as possible, beer and smokes do not.


It shouldn't.  I don't know about you, but I don't believe the following should be allowed to vote:

People under 18
Illegal immigrants
The dead
People who've already voted once

The last especially is combatted by indentification requirements.

It shouldn't.  I don't know about you, but I don't believe the following should be allowed to vote:

People under 18
Illegal immigrants
The dead
People who've already voted once

The last especially is combatted by indentification requirements.

If you can keep them from voting the first time, you don't have to worry about them voting a second or third time!  Heh heh!