Agreed on the rest of the stuff should be taught as well, although I will put my foot down and say the violence in Islam should be left out.  As well as the evil curse spells of Wicca.



Like Crazymom has already stated, if you knew anything about these religions, you would know that Islam does not endorse violence and Wiccans definately do not do "evil curse spells". As you know, I am a Wiccan and we have one creed-These Eight words the Rede fulfill: "An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will"  We also have the three-fold rule. Anything you do to/for someone will come back to you three-fold. No respectable witch would ever do any "evil curse spells".


And just for you Harmonica, I have seen the errors of my ways and I will change my position on the fact that creationism should not be taught in mythology class but in history class-just as long as other creation stories (not just the Christian creation story) can be taught with it.



Cat

And, if you had ever studied Islam, you'd know that what he supposedly "stands for" is not Islam.  He picks parts out of the Koran that "fit" his agenda and disregards the rest, just like I could go out and pick parts out of the bible to "fit" a violent agenda.


The Kora talks of violence and it's importance, we had to study parts of it in Western Civilization and secondly why is it from for you to say "what he supposedly "stands for" is not Islam" but not ok for me to say "waht he/she "supposedly" stands for is not christianity".  That's a double entadra, excuse the spelling.

Like Crazymom has already stated, if you knew anything about these religions, you would know that Islam does not endorse violence and Wiccans definately do not do "evil curse spells". As you know, I am a Wiccan and we have one creed-These Eight words the Rede fulfill: "An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will"  We also have the three-fold rule. Anything you do to/for someone will come back to you three-fold. No respectable witch would ever do any "evil curse spells".


And just for you Harmonica, I have seen the errors of my ways and I will change my position on the fact that creationism should not be taught in mythology class but in history class-just as long as other creation stories (not just the Christian creation story) can be taught with it.



Cat


If I knew More, about these religions is what you meant to say or should have said anyway.  Cause I do know something about them.  Maybe no respectable Wiccan would ever do anything that you claim. I also know that no respectable Christian would ever murder another person or steal from another person or beat his wife or whatever evil it maybe, but you know as well as I do that So called Christians have.

Thumbs up, we've came to an agreement.

There are passages in the Bible that condone violence as well, but I think you'll agree that Christianity is NOT about violence.  In fact, much of the Old Testament promotes violence.  As I said, do some research....


Three months of intensive  Intro to Biblical studies  enough research for you?  God telling his people to go out and kill all of those who aren't followers men women and children, I read it. 

Thou shall not judge lest ye be judged

                                    -Matthew 7: 1-2




Cat

Funny, you complain about the "lack of classes" in Iowa, yet you seem to have learned quite a bit about "religion" in them ???


I pay $20,000 a year to attend a private four year Christian liberal arts college.

Funny how you and I both know I meant, PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL.

I should also add that at my school we have kids from all over the place. Yes mostly Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, South Dakota, North Dakota, and believe it or not actually quite a few from Florida.  None of the public high schools they went to provided Mythology in the curriculum although one of them did have. But all of them had history  :)

I meant research about OTHER religions.  You just might learn something.  I had many misconceptions of certain religions based on what I had been taught.  Once I went to college and MET some people of said religions, I took it upon myself to do research and found that MOST of what I had been taught was dead wrong.  Islam was one of those religions...


You practically just made a great point for me, thank you.  Muchas Gracias.  Why am I confused on Islam? Why, I'll tell you why becaues all I know about it is what I'm ALLOWED to know about it.  The media only tells me what they want me to know about it.

And, you have no libraries around you?  I'm sure your school (both college AND high school) had them as well as your home town (that's where I learned about them).  I KNOW you have the internet.  Check out the website I gave you (www.religioustolerance.org).  It's a great non-biased site on all of the major religions.


how long before it's taken off the internet? The books taken out of the library?  I appreciate it's existance, I fear it's demolish.

Actually, I was referring to the fact that you said you learned about Jewish history as well as Islam in your history classes.....


I have no problem with that. I said on the history class we came to an agreement. I never had  a problem with taking religion out of science class and putting it into history class, that exist.  I had a problem taking religion out of science class and putting it into mythology class, which practically does not exist.

how long before it's taken off the internet? The books taken out of the library?  I appreciate it's existance, I fear it's demolish.


...and yet you have no basis for this paranoia.

Thou shall not judge lest ye be judged

                                     -Matthew 7: 1-2




Cat

Conservative Bible scholars believe that quatation is erroneous due to a translation error from the original Aramaic.  It should read, "Judge, Judge, Judge, and Judge some more!"
;)


...and yet you have no basis for this paranoia.

That's what I like so much about paranoia.  You don't need a basis, just suspicion.
"I've got a sneaking suspicion there's something funny going around here.  I smell a rat, I tell ya!"
:D

...and yet you have no basis for this paranoia.


Other than what's going on around me right now, what's happened before I was born, and whats' gonna happen after I'm dead.  Your right I got nothing.

Other than what's going on around me right now, what's happened before I was born, and whats' gonna happen after I'm dead.  Your right I got nothing.

Please clarify this statement.

Please clarify this statement.

Why?  You'll just ask him to clarify the statement he made to clarify the statement you asked him to clarify!
:D

Please clarify this statement.


There's nothing much to clairfy. History has shown me that carelessness and apathy can lead to the oblivion of loved things.  Taking your eye off of a little problem just for a second and before you know it, it's a huge problem and there ain't much hope for fixing it.  The present has taught me that if you care about something, let those around you accuse you of fixation, but never of not caring.  That way if others wipe it off the face of this Earth, you can say fully and certainly, that you tried to stop that from happening.  I've seen it happen a lot in my life. Some things really personal and no matter to others. Other things that seem really small, until you get a feel for how big the feelings and memories attached with them are.  Love and Passion are really funny things, they don't have to be understandable to the observer, just alive and well to the player.

There's nothing much to clairfy. History has shown me that carelessness and apathy can lead to the oblivion of loved things.  Taking your eye off of a little problem just for a second and before you know it, it's a huge problem and there ain't much hope for fixing it.  The present has taught me that if you care about something, let those around you accuse you of fixation, but never of not caring.  That way if others wipe it off the face of this Earth, you can say fully and certainly, that you tried to stop that from happening.  I've seen it happen a lot in my life. Some things really personal and no matter to others. Other things that seem really small, until you get a feel for how big the feelings and memories attached with them are.  Love and Passion are really funny things, they don't have to be understandable to the observer, just alive and well to the player.


You know...I'm fond of glazed doughnuts.

...however, I've heard that some people are actually not fond of glazed doughnuts.  This deeply upsets me.  I don't know why so many people in this country are trying to eliminate glazed doughnuts from existence.  Before you know it, we won't even be allowed to talk about glazed doughnuts. 

...which is why I believe we should sell glazed doughnuts in fish markets.  Anyone who disagrees with me eats chocolate donuts and people who eat chocolate donuts have no values.

You know...I'm fond of glazed doughnuts.

...however, I've heard that some people are actually not fond of glazed doughnuts.  This deeply upsets me.  I don't know why so many people in this country are trying to eliminate glazed doughnuts from existence.  Before you know it, we won't even be allowed to talk about glazed doughnuts. 

...which is why I believe we should sell glazed doughnuts in fish markets.  Anyone who disagrees with me eats chocolate donuts and people who eat chocolate donuts have no values.


Well I believe that glazed donuts should only be sold in the mixed Donkey piss with Giant Squid feceis store.  I mean there sure are a lot of those around.

What has been "wiped off the face of the earth" that has been loved?  Name 1 thing.  You've seen it happen a lot in your life?  I've been on this earth almost twice as long as you and I cannot think of 1 "good" thing that has been swept into oblivion.  There is NO CHANCE that religion will EVER be eliminated from the internet, libraries, and the like.  You believe this and you call yourself an optimist?  Whatever ::)  Save your "everyone hates Christians and they're trying to get rid of us" speeches....we've all heard them before.....


There were 84 Men's NCAA Division I Gymnastics teams at one time, today there are 20.  The Going rate by the time I'm 50, 0.

There were 156 Men's NCAA Division I wrestling programs at one time, Today there are 84.  The Going rate by the time I'm 50, 10. By the time I die, 0.

There used to be decent Television shows about morals and values, today 2 or 3.

Used to play dodgeball in P.E. class about once every two weeks, now it's fighting for it's life just to remain an activity.

Well I believe that glazed donuts should only be sold in the mixed Donkey piss with Giant Squid feceis store.  I mean there sure are a lot of those around.

What in the name of Salvador Dali....?
:D

Again, an assumption on your part that it will be eliminated.  Also, this has nothing to do with people wanting it eliminated, it has to do with the interest in the sports.  When I first went to college, my school had NO athletic teams....they used to, but the students that went to the school were more interested in their studies than sports


Oh oh oh oh, you've ventured into a subject that I VAST knowledge about.  It has SOMETHING to do with the interest in sports compared to men's football and men's basketball but it has MORE to do with the ugly antics of proportionality.  You want to get into this with me, be my guest, but you will lose. I've been studying hardcore Title IX, the massacre of men's collegiate sports in the past 35 years, and it's cause = proportionality extremely closely for the past 10 years myself.

Again, not something that has been "wiped out", just your assumption that it will be.  And again, it's not that someone wanted those shows to be gone, the interest in them was gone.  Just to clarify, what do you consider a show about "morals and values"?

The interest in them was gone AMONG CERTAIN groups of people. I guarantee you if MTV was to start playing music videos again, actually show music, they would not suffer, they'd just have a different audience.

The reason for this is the injuries that have occurred.  I remember playing in high school gym class and I recall no less than 3 broken noses and umpteen bloody lips, bruises....one kid even got a broken rib.  The kids at my sons' school are allowed to play it, despite 2 broken noses (in the 2 years it's been allowed again) and there is a group of parents (who I KNOW to be "Christian") who think it's not a "wholesome game" for the kids to be playing and promotes violence so the school is considering banning it again.

The type of ball you use will make a huge difference for one. For two you once again only mentioned the reason that is relevant to you.  You forgot to add the reason of a lot of people wanting to take competition and real life lessons out of schools.  You ever been to a soccer game or a little kids wrestling meet where every single participate gets 1st place? I have.  It goes against teaching kids the beauties in life such as hard work, sacrifice and dedication pay off. It also goes against teaching kids the rough tough life lessons they need to know such as, life isn't fair, sometimes the lazy kids are the best ones. 

Can I borrow your crystal ball?  You must have one because you seem to know EXACTLY what's going to happen.  For someone who calls himself an "optimist", you sure are pessimistic about some things ::)


You love something as much as I love wrestling, see 395 teams get dropped because of something beautiful gone stupid, and then roll your eyes at me.

Once again, this has nothing to do with the topic.

Topic:  Does creationism qualify as science?

Typical conversations in this thread:  Will Christianity be eliminated from the face of the earth?  Do atheists have any values?  Why do these secularists hate Christianity anyway?

I'm not arguing Title IX with you.  I agree with you that it's been butchered since it's inception.  The point was that none of these sports have been totally eliminated, you just assume that eventually they will be, something you have NO WAY of knowing.
Almost ANY ball can cause injuries if it's thrown hard enough.  Now wait, weren't you just saying that if you had a team where you had more players than positions, you'd play the players EQUALLY to be fair?  Why is YOUR scenario okay, yet the one you state above isn't?  It's the same concept...everyone being EQUAL. 

My scenerio gives everyone a chance to shine, not saying that they will shine, but  they are given the chance to shine. The other scenerio tells kids they shine no matter what.  The Dodgeballs we played with throughout school only stung at most  if thrown incredibly fast.  Had a senior when I was a freshman, could throw 92 miles an hour.  Hit me one time as hard as he could in the back, it stung. 2 minutes later I was fine.

anyhoo, no, I haven't been to anything where everyone gets a 1st place ribbon.  In our town, everyone gets a participation award.  True, with the younger kids (age 6 & below), they don't keep score "officially", but that's because at the younger ages, they are more concerned with teaching them the fundamentals of the sport than winning.  4, 5, & 6 years olds are too young to understand that just because you don't "win", doesn't mean you are no good.  For them, there is no "grey area" between being the best (the "winner") and the worst (the "loser").  The older kids also get participation awards, but they also keep score, have playoffs, and get trophies for 1st, 2nd or 3rd.  Not having children of your own, you wouldn't understand.  I can guarantee, once you DO, the concept of "winning" won't be as important as watching your child grow and improve and learn some self-confidence.

Your talking to a kid who spent 11 years in a sport he royally sucked at. I had a loosing high school career record.  I have zero credientials to my name.  How many good kids did I beat during high school? 1 one really good kid. I upset the number 10 ranked kid in the state my senior year. Other than that, I didn't do jack squat.  I placed at 3 outta 21 tournaments and was the only wrestler on my team with a DNP at a tournament my sophomore year.  DNP - Did Not Place.  I know all about how winning doesn't mean everything.  I was awarded the "Sportmanship" award at a tournament my senior year.  My teammates voted me the hardest working most dedicated wrestler of the team my freshman, junior and Senior year.  I was awarded the Tim Fritchen spirit award which says out of 50 kids in my class I gave the most effort, dedication and discipline towards a particular field: wrestling.  I don't need your expertise to tell me that there's more to life than winning.  The only thing I've ever been deeply involved in that I was any good as has been writing.  Wrestling, Theatre,  and everything else I've ever loved and had deep passion for, it sure as hell wasn't because I had the gifts and talents that went along with them.  Class, sportsmanship and love of the event are ranked high high above winning in my book. Always have been, always will be.


   Yes, I WILL roll my eyes at you because you keep harping on the fact that you're an optimist, you see the good in things, yet you keep "predicting" that things are going to be eliminated, Christianity will be "banned" from public libraries and internets, yada yada yada.  If you were a true optimist you'd predict that wrestling will make a comeback, as will Christianity, the world will make a turn for the better, those types of things.  You see support for one thing (in this thread, evolution) as total inhilation of the other (creationism).  You have continually stated that if it's not FORCABLY taught in the PUBLIC science classes, it will be eliminated, when that's just not the case....it will still exist in churches, homes, private (religious) school science classes, and possibly some history classes.  But, that's not good enough for you, you want it all or nothing....not a very "optimistic" way to look at things ::)

Oh can it with the optomism. I'm a realist.  Excuse me for getting a little teary eyed when my favorite team, the team I had a dream of competing for when I was little was axed like a bad habit in 2001. It started with Syracuse and I'm going to keep on my toes and be a part of the help that it doesn't happen at Iowa or Hofstra or Edinboro. 

I'm part of the support for Evolution being taught, just not the part of the christianity being eliminated altogether.  If only evolution was allowed in the places you listed other than the history class,  jumping ship wondering how a kid who didn't grow up in an evolution home was supposed to learn of it as an option would be a common practice.

Well I believe that glazed donuts should only be sold in the mixed Donkey piss with Giant Squid feceis store.  I mean there sure are a lot of those around.


OMG - THAT is FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111 ;D ;D ;D

Once again, this has nothing to do with the topic.

Topic:  Does creationism qualify as science?

Typical conversations in this thread:  Will Christianity be eliminated from the face of the earth?  Do atheists have any values?  Why do these secularists hate Christianity anyway?



Maybe creationism should be taught in gym class. There seems to be an "intelligent design" as to who will win a game and who won't. And just about every school in the nation has gym classes.




Cat

Maybe creationism should be taught in gym class. There seems to be an "intelligent design" as to who will win a game and who won't. And just about every school in the nation has gym classes.


Here is an actual quote from my mother, while defending my textbook's frustrating conservative Presbyterian bias:  "If God hadn't created the world, there would be no history."

By that logic...creationism should be taught in every subject.

Obviously, you've never heard of a "1-punch homicide".  As an EMT, I learned about people whose hearts had been STOPPED because someone started CPR on a heart that was still beating.  I'm sure if that ball had hit you in the nose, it would've done more than stung.

Kindergarden through Senior year of high school you got 3 days suspension if you purposely hit someone in the head. Even attempting to hit someone in the head was taken very seriously.


You're talking about high school.  I'm talking about 4, 5, & 6 year olds.  I'm around them EVERY DAY so I think I know a little bit more about how they react than you do.  

For one I wasn't talking about high school, I was talking about the fact that I knew there was a lot more to sports than winning.  Secondly I started wrestling at age 7 and with a 1-13 record, I knew then there was more to sports than winning.  My nephew who hasn't started sports offically yet but has fun realizes theres a lot more to winning as well.  He's five years old.


 
You're not a realist, you're a pessimist.  You see "creation should not be taught in science class" and automatically jump to the conclusion that "christianity should be eliminated".  I suppose you missed the fact that in the Pennsylvania case that this thread is about, the judge that made the ruling is a CHRISTIAN.....a realist wouldn't have. YOU are the only one who keeps saying Christianity is going to be eliminated altogether....multiple people have said that they don't have a problem with Christianity, but you don't seem to be processing that.  We'd be fighting just as hard if a judge ruled that a church MUST teach evolution because it has no place in church.  What if someone came into your church and insisted on teaching the kids about other religions, including Satanism, Atheism, Wicca, Islam, etc. (and these would be taught by people INVOLVED in the religions, not the minister offering HIS take on it) because "kids wouldn't learn about them otherwise".  Would "The Church" accept that?  I highly doubt it.


If my church FORCED people to go, then  I'd be stepping in and saying "NO".  I was never once forced to go to church.  I was forced to go to school until I reached 16 years of age.

Who said anything about deliberate?  I know that some of the throws I made during games of dodge ball didn't exactly end up where I had planned.  The fact of the matter is it's a dangerous game.....ESPECIALLY in co-ed PE classes.  Take the star pitcher from the baseball team and let him throw a ball at another baseball player who jumps out of the way and let it hit a 100lb girl who ends up with a bruised rib and tell me it's not dangerous.

The balls we used, it wasn't dangerous.




Sigh...fine, you win.  You know so much more about children than I do.  I guess I was mistaken in thinking that I, as a parent, being around multiple children these ages every day, knew how they felt better than you, who has a nephew and is NOT around young children almost all day every day.  What was I thinking? ::)

I'll answer that question for you. "Since Harmonica is more worried about school and getting a good career than he is about knocking a girl up right now, he doesn't know anything about children. The only way he could is if he would have became a father at the age of 15.  The fact that he has 8 cousins all younger than him that he plays with quite often, his nephew, going over to the elementary to read and do activities with the kids, and going to little kids wrestling practices to be a coach means didly squat."



Yes, you've made that point clear, and noone is arguing it with you.....you want the government to be able to force a religious concept on a public school, but you have no response when I ask about the church being forced to teach something, you keep spouting the same answer....

Nevermind.  Why do I even bother?  You're not going to answer MOST of the questions I pose anyway.... ::)


That is my response. What you want is for me to say, "No, I don't".  Then you want to appear all know it all ish and say back to me, "well then don't expect a school too for YOU" or something stupid like that.  You wanna play the game, you gotta play by all the rules.  You wanna make it out to where I'm not the fair one, but you can only do so with HALF of the information. 

I don't have to smoke a cigarette but I have to eat food.  Same principle applies here.

My scenerio gives everyone a chance to shine, not saying that they will shine, but  they are given the chance to shine. The other scenerio tells kids they shine no matter what.  The Dodgeballs we played with throughout school only stung at most  if thrown incredibly fast.  Had a senior when I was a freshman, could throw 92 miles an hour.  Hit me one time as hard as he could in the back, it stung. 2 minutes later I was fine.

Your talking to a kid who spent 11 years in a sport he royally sucked at. I had a loosing high school career record.  I have zero credientials to my name.  How many good kids did I beat during high school? 1 one really good kid. I upset the number 10 ranked kid in the state my senior year. Other than that, I didn't do jack squat.  I placed at 3 outta 21 tournaments and was the only wrestler on my team with a DNP at a tournament my sophomore year.  DNP - Did Not Place.  I know all about how winning doesn't mean everything.  I was awarded the "Sportmanship" award at a tournament my senior year.  My teammates voted me the hardest working most dedicated wrestler of the team my freshman, junior and Senior year.  I was awarded the Tim Fritchen spirit award which says out of 50 kids in my class I gave the most effort, dedication and discipline towards a particular field: wrestling.  I don't need your expertise to tell me that there's more to life than winning.  The only thing I've ever been deeply involved in that I was any good as has been writing.  Wrestling, Theatre,  and everything else I've ever loved and had deep passion for, it sure as hell wasn't because I had the gifts and talents that went along with them.  Class, sportsmanship and love of the event are ranked high high above winning in my book. Always have been, always will be.



Oh can it with the optomism. I'm a realist.  Excuse me for getting a little teary eyed when my favorite team, the team I had a dream of competing for when I was little was axed like a bad habit in 2001. It started with Syracuse and I'm going to keep on my toes and be a part of the help that it doesn't happen at Iowa or Hofstra or Edinboro. 

I'm part of the support for Evolution being taught, just not the part of the christianity being eliminated altogether.  If only evolution was allowed in the places you listed other than the history class,  jumping ship wondering how a kid who didn't grow up in an evolution home was supposed to learn of it as an option would be a common practice.



I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I I'm,I'm,I'm,I'm,    :o

I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I I'm,I'm,I'm,I'm,     :o


Who did I kill kill kill...who did I hurt hurt hurt...what did I end end end...What did I destroy destroy destroy....

j As I said, it's basic physics....ANY BALL thrown at 92 mph, heck, even 70 or 50 mph can be dangerous.


What sport in your mind isn't dangerous?  Cause seriously without sarcasm I can't think of a single activity in P.E. with exception to bowling where the chances of getting hurt are 0%. 





 And, don't tell me that in those wrestling practices, if you keep score and some 5 year old loses, he doesn't cry.  It doesn't affect them at all?  If you say that NONE of them have EVER cried or felt like they "sucked", I say that's BS.  Are you around your cousins and nephew almost 24/7?  Are you at wrestling practice at least 10-12 hours a day every day?  Do you babysit other 4-5 year olds multiple times a week?  Sorry, but when it comes to kids, you can think all you want that you know it all, but when you actually BECOME a parent you learn that you DIDN'T know it all.  I know teachers who say they were amazed at how much they DIDN'T know about kids until they had some of their own.  You can volunteer, play, whatever all you want, but when you actually BECOME a parent, it's a whole different ball game son.

Yes of course I've seen kids cry after loosing.  Of course it effects them and it should. Loosing sucks, it's a part of sport and more importantly it's a huge part of life. These kids need to learn that at an early age.  American's today are so weak. If it doesn't come easy, quit.  If you aren't number one within a month of hard work, give up.  A sport like wrestling or basketball teaches kids at an early age that there is so much more to life than if you win or lose.  Hard work, discipline, how to overcome adversity, key elements for success in life. 

A. I'm not arguing with you on the fact that you know more than kids about me. I don't doubt that.

B. I AM arguing with you, and telling you straight up that you are ARE WRONG that I don't know anything about kids.

If you'd ANSWER my questions, I wouldn't HAVE half the information.  You answer what you want, and expect me to assume the rest (which I don't do).  You want a level playing field, YOU gotta' play by the rules as well. You don't HAVE to go to school.  You could be homeschooled.  Just ask Strawberry Fields Forever (what his name is currently.)  Yes, you HAVE to eat food, but if you're Jewish, noone should be able to MAKE you eat meat that isn't kosher because that goes against your beliefs.  Same principle applies here.


Yes I do have to go to school.  One way or another I HAVE to go.  Regardless of where and when, I go.  Secondly I don't want anyone to force a young Jewish boy or girl to eat meat that isn't kosher.  I also don't want that little Jewish boy or girl forcing all the rest of the kids at school to not eat meat that isn't kosher. 

Even the Vatican has said that it is NOT science.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060119/sc_nm/religion_catholic_evolution_dc


But, I guess members of the Vatican aren't "true" Christians.




Cat

I'm not saying that it's the ONLY sport that's dangerous.  I also can't think of any other activity in PE where the OBJECTIVE is to HIT someone with a ball.  You seem to think I'm against dodgeball.  I'm not, my kids play it all the time.  I can just see the thinking behind not allowing it to be played.

Right,  but what I'm saying is you eliminate Dodgeball for the purpose of someone can get hurt, then eliminating baseball, kickball, and other games will become easier and easier.





I'm not arguing with you what is important in life to learn, I agree that kids need to learn.  I AM saying however, I don't see the harm in giving young kids awards for doing their best, regardless of whether they win or lose.  Older kids, yes, it is a bit sketchy, but for younger kids, why not teach them that just trying their best makes them a "winner"? I never said you know NOTHING about kids.  I WAS, however, a bit annoyed at being "spoken" to like an idiot.

When I was a kid at wrestling tournaments, baseball games and soapbox derby contest I usually got 4th place outta four kids.  I have a ribbon from a wrestling tournament that say's, "every wrestler is a winner", a medal from a baseball game that I had to hit the ball off the tee every time because after 45 pitches the coach decided I wasn't going to hit the ball and a ribbon from the soapbox derby inwhich my car's wheel popped off on the way down the hill that read, "I tried my best."  These are the type of awards kids should be given. Not a Gold medal or a trophy that say's "1st" place when they got 4th outta 4th.  That teaches them nothing.

 Yet, you have no problem FORCING a Jewish or Atheist or Wiccan or whatever to learn YOUR religious beliefs when it comes to how the earth began.  Evolution isn't an "atheist" belief, there are many Christians (especially scientists who are able to distinguish "religion" from "science") who also believe in evolution, but it IS a "scientific" belief whereas "Creationism" is purely religious.....no science involved.


"According souly to science our being here came about in a theory described by Charles Darwin known as Evolution"  That sounds great to me, the chances of that being the way it's taught each and every single time...slim.  "We being here can be explained by Evolution"  chances of that being the norm, good and plenty.

How is your "every wrestler is a winner" any different than a first place or gold medal?  Winner indicates 1st place. 

There's never going to be a good answer to this.  You have people who complain about kids NOT being treated equally, then you have people who complain that kids are treated TOO equally.  Coaches today are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

It indicates that I got 4th.  The other kid got a gold medal, the one below him a silver and the one below him a bronze.  You are right on the coaches are damned if they do and damned if they don't part.  However, there is fairness and a way to condone it.  It's not easy, but it is possible.

 Guess what?  Teachers are going to teach things the way they want, there's no way to police each and every thing that comes out of their mouths.  I was at my kids' school today and they have a section in the library where they have the text books from K-12.  I looked in each and every science one and each and every one of them (which, none below grade 6 even mentioned it) said "Theory of Evolution". 


Well that's here and that's now.  Time will tell us where that will be then.