I decided to make this thread since when his presidency is discussed, there is overwhelmingly negative feedback due to his terrible decisions. So, let's talk about the good things that Bush did when he was in office. Is there anything that most people might not know about W's positives?

I really think that people are way too biased against the Bush administration. Sure, his handling of Iraq, Katrina, and the 2008 financial crisis may have been bad, but he did plenty of good stuff too. For example, no US president has ever done more for Africa than Bush. Specifically fighting AIDS, cancer and malaria, trying to solve the Sudan genocide, as well as being at the forefront of cancelling African debt. Not even Obama, despite his Kenyan origins has done as much good there as Bush.

Even with the Middle East, I think Bush has been better than Obama. There, I said it. I know that's an unpopular opinion.

I really think that people are way too biased against the Bush administration. Sure, his handling of Iraq, Katrina, and the 2008 financial crisis may have been bad, but he did plenty of good stuff too. For example, no US president has ever done more for Africa than Bush. Specifically fighting AIDS, cancer and malaria, trying to solve the Sudan genocide, as well as being at the forefront of cancelling African debt. Not even Obama, despite his Kenyan origins has done as much good there as Bush.

Even with the Middle East, I think Bush has been better than Obama. There, I said it. I know that's an unpopular opinion.


With stuff like ISIS, I don't think he really did a lot. Even for me, he didn't do a lot to stop ISIS from controlling the Middle East.

Yep, as has been mentioned before, aid to Africa is about all I can think of. One must keep in mind though, this was to prevent African countries from importing more affordable, but counterfeit antiretrovirals (AIDS treatment) from India and China, and instead forced them to buy from American pharmaceutical companies. Ultimately, the more expensive medical costs resulted in less people getting treatment.

I recommend everyone read 28: Stories of AIDS in Africa by Stephanie Nolen. It's a lengthy read, but I found it hard to put the book down and it moved me to tears at practically the end of every chapter. A very insightful look to one of the biggest crises of our times.

He brought the country together following the 9/11 attacks. I think initially he handled a terrible crisis very well and for a time we could unite behind him. Then unfortunately he made the huge mistake of invading Iraq.

He brought the country together following the 9/11 attacks. I think initially he handled a terrible crisis very well and for a time we could unite behind him. Then unfortunately he made the huge mistake of invading Iraq.


Frankly he should've hunted Osama Bin Laden, just like Obama did, instead of killing thousands of people in Iraq, who aren't even associated with Al-Qaeda.

Frankly he should've hunted Osama Bin Laden, just like Obama did, instead of killing thousands of people in Iraq, who aren't even associated with Al-Qaeda.


Yeah Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 though they tried to use that reasoning at first. I think they had good intentions in reality and the idea was to create more democracies in the Middle East and that would benefit them and us both. They didn't realize however that turning countries into democracies just like that isn't so easy and in the end they just got a bunch of people killed and created even more instability in the Middle East.

Yeah Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 though they tried to use that reasoning at first.

They used that reasoning when the smoke was still smouldering from the ashes, and no one knew what it was about or who did it. Hence, the logical assumption was that Iraq did contribute to 9/11, because they were the most anti-American country in the region (along with Iran).

But by and large, the Bush administration used the reasoning that Iraq was not responsible for 9/11 per se, but they were supporting terrorism, which was true. For example, Saddam Hussein was funding Palestinian suicide bombers' families $10,000, which increased to $25,000 after March 2002 (the worst month of the Second Intifada), providing shelter to the Abu Nidal Organization, as well as giving money and shelter to Abdul Rahman Yasin, the one who built the bombs for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

I think they had good intentions in reality and the idea was to create more democracies in the Middle East and that would benefit them and us both.

That was not why the US invaded in 2003. That may have been the philosophical justification, but the real reason was because Iraq was supposedly developing WMD, which obviously turned out to be false. It is true, however, that the only reason why Saddam wasn't developing WMD was because of the sanctions, which turned out to be crumbling by the turn of the century. If the sanctions didn't exist, there is no doubt that Saddam would have snapped back the weapons programme. Also, the invasion did dissuade Libya from developing its own WMD programme.

The democracy justification only came after the WMD argument was stalling, and therefore the Bush administration didn't want to be seen as having invaded for no reason at all. I think that if they had truly focused on building a democracy, not pursuing a total de-Ba'athification of every single institution and releasing every Iraqi soldier on the streets *glaring at a certain Paul Bremer III* then the war wouldn't be seen as much of a failure as it is seen today.

They didn't realize however that turning countries into democracies just like that isn't so easy

Think of it like this however: what about Germany, Japan and Korea? Or various Eastern-European countries that crumbled in 1989, which were dominated by the Austro-Hungarian Empire, then by fascism and by communism? Those weren't easy either - they required time, investment and effort.

I believe in the Democratic Peace Thesis because empirically speaking, there have been much fewer wars and conflicts between democratic states than between non-democracies or between democracies and non-democracies.

in the end they just got a bunch of people killed

Actually, as weird as it sounds, the Bush administration ended up saving more people. According to Saddam's average kill rate during his time in power (and his sons would likely have sustained this kill rate too), 698,000 lives have been saved, and credible casualty counts of the Iraq war put it at about 100,000-200,000 people.

and created even more instability in the Middle East.

I would rather argue that there is even more instability because of Obama's foreign policy towards the Middle East. For example, there wouldn't have been a refugee crisis if he had acted more decisively on Syria earlier on, and ISIS wouldn't exist the way it does if he had been more determined to fight them and not just contain them (75% of fighter jets were coming back without having dropped a single bomb).

But, now it's Trump...

I would rather argue that there is even more instability because of Obama's foreign policy towards the Middle East. There wouldn't have been a refugee crisis if he had acted more decisively earlier on. ISIS wouldn't exist the way it does if he had been more forceful (75% of fighter jets were coming back without having dropped a single bomb).

But, now it's Trump...


A big part of Obama foreign policy I disagree with was the backing of the "Arab Spring" uprisings, these were mostly all just jihadist movements that were trying to overtake secular governments. Though I've read that it was Hillary that was actually the biggest promoter of this while Obama was actually skeptical in reality.

He did one good thing!

He read The Pet Goat.

Enter evidence bag #1.

http://www.apfn.net/messageboard/12-24-06/images/625912bb9da026bca235b010__AA240__L.jpg

A big part of Obama foreign policy I disagree with was the backing of the "Arab Spring" uprisings, these were mostly all just jihadist movements that were trying to overtake secular governments. Though I've read that it was Hillary that was actually the biggest promoter of this while Obama was actually skeptical in reality.


The only protests that the US backed were the ones in Libya though, which went on to elect a secular government (its weak hold on power notwithstanding).

Like someone already said, bringing the country together after 9/11 happened and being sincere in a lot of his speeches well after that time when others events happened whether those were catastrophic or minor. Something that can't be said about the current president who's in office unfortunately, but the best thing we can do is PRAY for Donald J. Trump and trust in God that this country will overcome the tough bridges moving forward.

Like someone already said, bringing the country together after 9/11 happened and being sincere in a lot of his speeches well after that time when others events happened whether those were catastrophic or minor. Something that can't be said about the current president who's in office unfortunately, but the best thing we can do is PRAY for Donald J. Trump and trust in God that this country will overcome the tough bridges moving forward.


Yeah George W. did show some empathy and humility in his speech and tone, Trump is seemingly incapable of either.

The only protests that the US backed were the ones in Libya though, which went on to elect a secular government (its weak hold on power notwithstanding).


What about Egypt and Syria?

What about Egypt and Syria?


Egypt they didn't support until the very end from what I remember. Mubarak was deposed around January 25th, and the US supported it around 23rd or 24th when the writing was already on the wall.

Syria they stayed out of until Assad shot on his own people, who were protesting peacefully (which plunged the country into civil war), so imo that was appropriate. They didn't provide any military or financial support to any rebels until 2014.

In my opinion, as someone who was following the Spring diligently everyday in 2010-2012, the US did more to support many autocratic regimes than they did to dismantle them. Particularly Bahrain, where the US-backed military used American-provided weapons to shoot on peaceful protesters.

What about Egypt and Syria?

I know less about Egypt, but with regard to Syria, it isn't just jihadists (and I'm not talking about the Free Syrian Army). Read up about the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), a 45,000 strong multiethnic group (mainly Kurds and Arabs) who believe in secularism and democracy.

I know less about Egypt, but with regard to Syria, it isn't just jihadists (and I'm not talking about the Free Syrian Army). Read up about the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), a 45,000 strong multiethnic group (mainly Kurds and Arabs) who believe in secularism and democracy.


Yeah I know it isn't just jihadists. I guess the problem is sorting out the good rebels from the jihadist ones, and not empowering the jihadists while we assist the good rebels. There's not really an easy solution tbh.

I was actually a huge supporter of George W. Bush when I was in high school. After 9/11, I was well in the 90% who approved of his job performance. I supported the Afghanistan War, and supported him going to war with Iraq in 2003 because I bought into the hype about Weapons of Mass Destruction. In 2004, even thought I wasn't quite old enough to vote, I supported Bush for re-election over John Kerry, and got into arguments with classmates that supported Kerry (though, since I live in rural Georgia, there weren't many).

Things started to change in 2005, though. I started college and started hanging out with more diverse groups. I also began watching The Daily Show religiously that summer, just as the Iraq War was going south and the Hurricane Katrina fiasco happened. By the time 2008 rolled around, I had done a complete reversal from 2004: I heavily supported Obama's election and wanted Bush impeached.

Looking back on him 8 years later, I'm still not really a big fan, but also don't loathe Bush quite as much as I did in early 2009. In some ways, Donald Trump taking office actually makes me miss the GWB era even more.

I was actually a huge supporter of George W. Bush when I was in high school. After 9/11, I was well in the 90% who approved of his job performance. I supported the Afghanistan War, and supported him going to war with Iraq in 2003 because I bought into the hype about Weapons of Mass Destruction. In 2004, even thought I wasn't quite old enough to vote, I supported Bush for re-election over John Kerry, and got into arguments with classmates that supported Kerry (though, since I live in rural Georgia, there weren't many).

Things started to change in 2005, though. I started college and started hanging out with more diverse groups. I also began watching The Daily Show religiously that summer, just as the Iraq War was going south and the Hurricane Katrina fiasco happened. By the time 2008 rolled around, I had done a complete reversal from 2004: I heavily supported Obama's election and wanted Bush impeached.

Looking back on him 8 years later, I'm still not really a big fan, but also don't loath Bush quite as much as I did in early 2009. In some ways, Donald Trump taking office actually makes me miss the GWB era even more.


Back in 2000 when he was running I thought he was a joke and initially I was mad he won. Then after 9/11 I became a pretty big supporter for a while and I even bought into the reasoning for Iraq. After there was no WMD found and the war just drew on and on, I started disliking him. I was a huge Obama supporter in 2008, but over the years grew more mixed on him. I supported Obama because he seemed like a new face and the Clntons had been in politics for years (and I don't like the idea of dynasty politics) and also because Hillary is a pretty big warmonger. This year I wanted a moderate reasonable Republican (I voted for John Kasich in the GOP primary and would have voted for him for president over Hillary too), instead they nominated Trump so I again voted Democratic for Hillary Clinton.

These days I look back on Bush more positively, overall he was a decent moderate conservative but it's hard to overlook that war. I'd still easily rather have W. come back for another four years than have this crazy man Trump in there. The Bush era was a far less divisive era and Bush as polarizing as he was was nowhere near the polarizing figure that Donald Trump is.

I was actually a huge supporter of George W. Bush when I was in high school. After 9/11, I was well in the 90% who approved of his job performance. I supported the Afghanistan War, and supported him going to war with Iraq in 2003 because I bought into the hype about Weapons of Mass Destruction. In 2004, even thought I wasn't quite old enough to vote, I supported Bush for re-election over John Kerry, and got into arguments with classmates that supported Kerry (though, since I live in rural Georgia, there weren't many).

Things started to change in 2005, though. I started college and started hanging out with more diverse groups. I also began watching The Daily Show religiously that summer, just as the Iraq War was going south and the Hurricane Katrina fiasco happened. By the time 2008 rolled around, I had done a complete reversal from 2004: I heavily supported Obama's election and wanted Bush impeached.

Looking back on him 8 years later, I'm still not really a big fan, but also don't loathe Bush quite as much as I did in early 2009. In some ways, Donald Trump taking office actually makes me miss the GWB era even more.

I myself grew up in a very anti-Bush environment, in a UK university town that is pretty left-wing (Oxford if you're wondering), so it was only a few years ago that I started to have a less negative opinion of him, especially since I started listening to more conservative sources. I pretty much did the opposite of you, politically speaking I started out quite progressive when I was 14/15 and by 17, I was pretty solidly on the right (still am).

This picture used to piss me off, since my answer to it was always a resounding no, but in 2017...

http://moot.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c01ff53ef0134888a726c970c-800wi

This picture used to piss me off, since my answer to it was always a resounding no, but in 2017...

http://moot.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c01ff53ef0134888a726c970c-800wi


He seems well meaning, but not the sharpest knife in the kitchen.  :-X

Trump is just mean on purpose.

This picture used to piss me off, since my answer to it was always a resounding no, but in 2017...

http://moot.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c01ff53ef0134888a726c970c-800wi


Yeah, George W. Bush looks a lot more positive to me now, just for the fact that his agenda, misguided and misinformed as it so often was, was at least pretty well-intentioned. Maybe it's just his post-presidency that's causing me to feel this way, but you certainly have to give him credit for at least being a decent, friendly individual who cared about far more than just himself.

Yeah, George W. Bush looks a lot more positive to me now, just for the fact that his agenda, misguided and misinformed as it so often was, was at least pretty well-intentioned. Maybe it's just his post-presidency that's causing me to feel this way, but you certainly have to give him credit for at least being a decent, friendly individual who cared about far more than just himself.


Agreed. Thanks to Trump, I suddenly feel like most New Yorkers are probably narcissistic, and people like Trump are proud of it as a stereotype. If I were him, I would be feeling stressed (and maybe offended) that people think that New Yorkers tend to act like spoiled brats. At least for Bush, he doesn't really seem that awful. To me, he just seems like a mediocre president that might be better than Nixon.

George Bush is a fun, goofy guy with a smile on his face. He wasn't the best president and made some really bad choices but at least he wasn't this totally f*cked up madman like Cheetos over here. ::)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2017/01/21/JS118419491_REUTERSt-George-W-Bush-NEWS-large_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqM37qcIWR9CtrqmiMdQVx7NRqFxE2ftaXxHtqgK6JZYg.jpg

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/20/51/41/4364380/9/1024x1024.jpg

At least he looks like a human being. Reminds me of a goofy dad or uncle.

George Bush is a fun, goofy guy with a smile on his face. He wasn't the best president and made some really bad choices but at least he wasn't this totally f*cked up madman like Cheetos over here. ::)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2017/01/21/JS118419491_REUTERSt-George-W-Bush-NEWS-large_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqM37qcIWR9CtrqmiMdQVx7NRqFxE2ftaXxHtqgK6JZYg.jpg

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/20/51/41/4364380/9/1024x1024.jpg

At least he looks like a human being. Reminds me of a goofy dad or uncle.


;D  ;D

George Bush is a fun, goofy guy with a smile on his face. He wasn't the best president and made some really bad choices but at least he wasn't this totally f*cked up madman like Cheetos over here. ::)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2017/01/21/JS118419491_REUTERSt-George-W-Bush-NEWS-large_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqM37qcIWR9CtrqmiMdQVx7NRqFxE2ftaXxHtqgK6JZYg.jpg

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/20/51/41/4364380/9/1024x1024.jpg

At least he looks like a human being. Reminds me of a goofy dad or uncle.


Same here. He actually looks really sane compared to Trump, where he got a lot of sh*t together. I feel afraid if Trump declared war on any country, since he'll probably nuke them. No president ever wants that in the first place, especially when we went through so much sh*t with nuclear weapons in the mid 20th century.

Compared to Clinton in the 90's, I can see why people saw Bush in the 00's as an extreme downgrade.