THIS POLL IS ONLY OPEN TO MEMBERS WHO SIGNED UP BY JAN 11TH 2014. 
IF YOU JOINED THE 00ze JANUARY 12th or AFTER...please DO NOT vote. 

Thank you for your integrity.  :)



Alright it's late and I'm tired and I'm curious where current members stand... you do not have to tell your vote if you don't want but I would be curious to know how old you were in 2005. 

It's no secret where I stand... it helps that I live in Santa Barbara and work in Law Enforcement and have spent time with people closely associated with this case. 

There is no question in my mind of his guilt so much was left out of the trial...but when all is said and done he got off anyway....  (the pun was unintended but I will let it stand  :D )

at the very least I think he should have been found guilt of inappropriate conduct and child endangerment or just using really piss poor judgement....  >:(

It's no secret where I stand... it helps that I live in Santa Barbara and work in Law Enforcement and have spent time with people closely associated with this case. 

There is no question in my mind of his guilt so much was left out of the trial...but when all is said and done he got off anyway....  (the pun was unintended but I will let it stand  :D )

at the very least I think he should have been found guilt of inappropriate conduct and child endangerment or just using really piss poor judgement....  >:(


You have mentioned that before and you also mentioned you were privy to information about the trial…some of it which made you disgusted or angry (something like that) , and so much stuff was left out of that trial.  So obviously no one on inthe00s would know more than you about what went on.

I was 24 in 2005.  I watched him spiral from that cute little boy in The Jackson 5 to the freak he became.  I think it started with the commercial where his hair caught on fire...the drugs anyway.  IMO, he got too big without anyone there to tell him to knock it off.  When you go unchecked, being allowed to do whatever you want with no one telling you no only bad things can happen. 

And, yes, I think he was guilty. 

You have mentioned that before and you also mentioned you were privy to information about the trial…some of it which made you disgusted or angry (something like that) , and so much stuff was left out of that trial.  So obviously no one on inthe00s would know more than you about what went on.


I just figured some new members are not privy to my background so I thought I'd put it out there. I'm not going into details because I am not allowed to divulge them but I can say that I know enough to say that I am convinced.


oh and because I forgot to say so... I was 38 when it went down... I was actually in dispatch...one of the deputies keyed the mike when the fans outside of the courthouse were given the news... I was disgusted by the celebration.  My heart breaks for the kids affected and for the ones who's souls got sold out by their parents  :\'(

i think he was probably guilty. I feel bad for his fans. They have so much love for him and it must be hard to hear for them, but the truth is stubborn.

A fan, short form of fanatic by it's very definition means you turn a blind eye to all the shortcomings. I liked
Michael Jackson since his time with the Jackson Five. Even though my taste in music was different than the
style of the Jacksons, I still admired what he did for the music industry.

That being said, I can not justify his actions outside of the industry. He was in serious need of professional help,
not the quackery he received. I was 45 at the time and yes I feel he was guilty.

A fan, short form of fanatic by it's very definition means you turn a blind eye to all the shortcomings. I liked
Michael Jackson since his time with the Jackson Five. Even though my taste in music was different than the
style of the Jacksons, I still admired what he did for the music industry.

That being said, I can not justify his actions outside of the industry. He was in serious need of professional help,
not the quackery he received. I was 45 at the time and yes I feel he was guilty.



I know what you mean. I was a big fan in the 70s and 80s... I woke up early and grabbed my alphabits and watched the cartoon lol. . .  but the more he declined, and let's face it, those of us who saw it play out were witness to the decline of an icon.  I think this is why I'm curious about the age of people who want to believe he is not guilty. I feel like,  having discussed this with a few friends in light of a recent onslaught of fans joining these boards,  that perhaps the fact that they are younger and were exposed to MJ not Michael (and there is a difference) that they were already used to the persona he became. 

Yeah they have seen him, for lack of a better term, in a normal state, but that monstrosity that he became was normal to them because that's the MJ they knew first.  To me, the more surgeries there were the more distant from reality and Michael he became. and I just could never really look at him the same way. 

the lifestyle he lived was not helpful, abusive dad, sheltered life, famous too soon, no childhood. he was stunted and coddled.  I don't believe he meant to harm the kids but, then again, many pedophiles don't molest with the intention of controlling or demeaning their victims. in a very sick way many think what they do is an actual act of love. I think MJ was of this mindset.  what was it oprah called it? Child seduction rather than child molestation I think... 

http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Oprah-on-How-Molesters-Groom-Children-Video


if that makes sense... I've been awake too  long

My concern was the kids on the witness stand stating they were in his bed, but it was all innocent

There is no reason those kids should have ever been in his bed.  He was 100% guilty

Where there's smoke there's fire and this was a billowing conflagration!

No amount of talent justifies pedophilia.

Shame on those parents who settled out of court for money.  I'm sure they surrounded him for some kind of free ride anyway, but it was like they offered up their children for monetary gains and left him free of legal action so he might continue to prey on other children. 

Disgusting.

Undecided, and unproven.

Where there's smoke there's fire and this was a billowing conflagration!

No amount of talent justifies pedophilia.

Shame on those parents who settled out of court for money.  I'm sure they surrounded him for some kind of free ride anyway, but it was like they offered up their children for monetary gains and left him free of legal action so he might continue to prey on other children. 

Disgusting.



And I am certain there were some kids who were never touched who saw a free ride to college or a new car. Or a down payment on the house.... But that doesn't negate the fact that there were some kids who were victimized.  One kid is one kid too many.

Seriously? I come to this site when I wake up in the morning and see THIS poll, on a subject that has been SQUASHED since, like, 2005? Michael was NOT a pedophile. I cannot believe what the media has done! They have succeeded in framing an innocent man in the minds of people who have not taken any time to do research, but instead depend on their own prejudice and choose to ignore FACT. If you choose to ignore all the things that point to his innocence, rather than the very few things that would indicate any kind of "guilt", then I feel sorry for you, I really do. I didn't know if he was innocent when he was first accused, but I have taken the time to do research on the matter and not just condemn someone. That is how my parents raised me, to never be judgmental and never be prejudiced. They also raised me to think critically. The main reason, I bet, why people think him guilty, is because they have not been educated of the HUGE effort the media took in order to stain Michael Jackson's good name ,OR to all of the facts to the cases. If you have not read the information on how MJ was framed, how evidence was illegally fabricated in the 2005 case by DA Tom Sneddon (who should be in jail right now for that), if you only depend on tabloid news reports (which are NEVER 100% factual), if you only think MJ is a pervert based on how "weird" you think he is, then you have no right to call him anything. If you think he had child porn, you're wrong, because it was 100% legal adult porn they found. He was human, he was lonely and he had that bad habit of having playboy magazines since he was like 11. The freaking FBI was investigating him since 1993 and found NOTHING on his computers, under his mattresses, in his library, no secret dungeon rooms, no inappropriate things at Neverland or any other of his residencies. You may be ale to pay hush money to local police officers, but Michael Jackson could not pay off the FBI. Plus, the sheriffs in Santa Barbara County (namely one *cough* Tom Sneddon* didn't like MJ any way, were prejudiced and racist, so I doubt they would cut Jackson any "favors") If Michael Jackson was in possession of ANY child porn, he would have went to prison, because that is a federal offense. Every single family and employee were demolished on the witness stand, including the accusers, as money-grubbing gold diggers and LIARS, they had to keep changing their stories. READ the court transcripts, it is all public information. Michael Jackson was FORCED by his insurance company to "pay off " the Chandlers in 1993, when he actually wanted to fight in court for his innocence (proof here: http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/its-not-up-to-michael-jacksons-fans-to-prove-that-he-was-innocent-its-up-to-michael-jacksons-haters-to-prove-that-he-was-guilty/ AND here: http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/mjagreement/). The Chandlers brought Michael Jackson into a CIVIL case before a CRIMINAL one, not seeking justice against the "perpetrator", but seeking MONEY first. There is evidence that Jordan Chandler admitted that he lied that MJ molested him. He said in the court papers, he refused to testify because "he did his part". Once the Chandlers got their money, they split. Michael Jackson's FBI files are public info: http://vault.fbi.gov/Michael%20Jackson/ <---THOSE are the actual files, not something conjured by a tabloid website. It's a shame how the media can manipulate the public like that. They know you won't take time from your busy life to do any research on someone, because it doesn't concern you, so it's easy to accuse someone or make them guilty in the public's eye. This is just a smidgeon of evidence that I have written, because there is too much in support of his innocence. In the real world, whether someone is innocent or guilty doesn't matter, once the news has attached your name to a situation, you will immediately either think well or ill of the person. It's very sad that we all are so dependent on the news alone.

If anyone else is just curious as to MJ could be innocent, can have an open and prejudiced mind, please do your research. The media doesn't always print truth. I am not saying this because I am an MJ fan. If I had ANY indication that MJ was guilty, his songs would be deleted, and I would no longer support him or even be a fan for that matter. I couldn't support something like that.

EVEN MORE evidence: http://itsinournature.wordpress.com/2014/01/08/mjfam-a-short-summary-on-michael-jacksons-innocence/

Let me put it this way, if Snoz says so, I believe the person is guilty. So I choose guilty.  ;)

I'll admit though, I love Mike's music, but the guy had an ego the size of the Milky way galaxy! When people don't tell you no, you keep going!

I was never a huge Mike fan, but I have 2 albums of him. I never went to his concerts and have very little interest in his personal life.

Just because someone was acquitted doesn't mean they are not guilty. (Look at George Zimmerman.)


I have always like his music-first as part of the Jackson 5 and then with his solo career. I, too used to watch the cartoon back in the '70s. He also had a lot of great hits like Billie Jean, Beat It, & Thriller but that has nothing to do with his actions.


It really makes me angry because he was famous and had boocoo $$$$$$$$$$ that he could pay his way out of it. Like many have already said, the man was sick and needed a lot of help. But instead of getting the help he desperately needed, he had a group of people who enabled him which lead to his death. The same thing could be said about Anna Nicole and even Elvis. I think if he was convicted, it could have saved his life. If he was locked up, maybe he could have gotten the help he really needed.


Instead of focusing on MJ not getting the help he needed, we really should be focusing on the help his victims need. They are going to have problems ALL OF THEIR LIVES!!!! Being molested leaves a lasting scar that never goes away. I know because I was molested at the age of 13. And the guy got away with it because I was not brave enough to tell ANYONE that I was molested even though my mother suspected. 


Cat

They had FOURTEEN chances to throw Michael's ass in the slammer. FOURTEEN charges. All FOURTEEN cleared. Afterwards the jurors even said they did the right thing. What more do you need? Michael's ghost to float down from heaven--or be spewed from the bowels of hell let some tell it-- to say he didn't do it.

Michael Jackson is innocent!
You cannot prove any of the aquittels.
Alot of people are out to make money.

Just think of the case against Mike Tyson, a huge boxing star, who is a convicted rapist and got about 6 years in prison I think. he broke the law and was punished for it.

Michael Jackson did nothing wrong and was therefore not punished.

Wealth and fame has little to do with it. Michael is innocent and I am so angry that his innocence is still in question. After everything he has done for the world and the children of the world.
He truly did not have it in him to hurt a single person on this earth, and I firmly believe he is innocent. there is no one in this world who could even shake that belief.

so make as many of these forums or polls as you wish, you will not shake the believers.
All you do is set out to cause a stir and get some attention, so congratulations, you achieved a little goal, but that is all you will ever achieve.

Michael had 2 times where he was accused, 1993. Then 2003. The trial in lasted until 2005.

I feel sorry for him though, he needed a friend. A REAL friend, not a celebrity brown-noser!

I'm literally fudgeing shaking right now at the degree of ignorance and idiocy going on right now. I've never seen the likes of it in all my damn life. I back up Taylor because I know in my heart that MJ did no wrong. And Snoz, I'm sick to fudgeing death of you claiming to flaunt knowledge of the case. Put up or shut up. If you know something, then fudgeing say it. If you don't quit claiming it and sit down some fudgeing where. If you think I'm being mean or aggressive, then so be it. You don't know me in person, and godddamn it, you don't need to know me.



Why are you using so many curse word and attacking Q for?
Rude and so mean to other members....

Why are you using so many curse word and attacking Q for?
Rude and so mean to other members....


Really? I'm mean? That's a laugh man. Ok.  ;D

They had FOURTEEN chances to throw Michael's ass in the slammer. FOURTEEN charges. All FOURTEEN cleared. Afterwards the jurors even said they did the right thing. What more do you need? Michael's ghost to float down from heaven--or be spewed from the bowels of hell let some tell it-- to say he didn't do it.
his behavior, and the fact he died of his own hand immediately tells me he will not be in heaven anytime soon!  And he did not believe in heaven!

Alright it's late and I'm tired and I'm curious where current members stand... you do not have to tell your vote if you don't want but I would be curious to know how old you were in 2005.



I was 34 in 2005.


My vote is Undecided.


I say that because, although acquitted of all charges - something went down in order for there to be an investigation. Not once, but twice.

He can keep YOU company once you arrive.  ;)
that is fine, I am sure my penance will be much shorter!  I have no desire in harming anyone, or threatening others.  I believe in my Lord Jesus Christ, and he died for my sins!  I know I am a sinner!  But I also know with all of my heart, I will not harm anyone, NORE will I kill myself of my own accord! 

Seriously? I come to this site when I wake up in the morning and see THIS poll, on a subject that has been SQUASHED since, like, 2005? Michael was NOT a pedophile. I cannot believe what the media has done! They have succeeded in framing an innocent man in the minds of people who have not taken any time to do research, but instead depend on their own prejudice and choose to ignore FACT. If you choose to ignore all the things that point to his innocence, rather than the very few things that would indicate any kind of "guilt", then I feel sorry for you, I really do.


Hmm... just like all of the other members who come here to post daily and find more rantings about MJ by his 'SuperFans' and apollonia recruiting more of her friends to the board to try and overrun the place with MJ crap? Now you know how the rest of us feel...


I didn't know if he was innocent when he was first accused, but I have taken the time to do research on the matter and not just condemn someone. That is how my parents raised me, to never be judgmental and never be prejudiced.


And here is where your hypocritical rant starts.
I can actually say that after reading this statement, and then the rest of your rant - there isn't a single bit in your quote boxes below that aren't judgmental and prejudiced.


They also raised me to think critically. The main reason, I bet, why people think him guilty, is because they have not been educated of the HUGE effort the media took in order to stain Michael Jackson's good name ,OR to all of the facts to the cases. If you have not read the information on how MJ was framed, how evidence was illegally fabricated in the 2005 case by DA Tom Sneddon (who should be in jail right now for that), if you only depend on tabloid news reports (which are NEVER 100% factual), if you only think MJ is a pervert based on how "weird" you think he is, then you have no right to call him anything. If you think he had child porn, you're wrong, because it was 100% legal adult porn they found. He was human, he was lonely and he had that bad habit of having playboy magazines since he was like 11. The freaking FBI was investigating him since 1993 and found NOTHING on his computers, under his mattresses, in his library, no secret dungeon rooms, no inappropriate things at Neverland or any other of his residencies. You may be ale to pay hush money to local police officers, but Michael Jackson could not pay off the FBI. Plus, the sheriffs in Santa Barbara County (namely one *cough* Tom Sneddon* didn't like MJ any way, were prejudiced and racist, so I doubt they would cut Jackson any "favors") If Michael Jackson was in possession of ANY child porn, he would have went to prison, because that is a federal offense. Every single family and employee were demolished on the witness stand, including the accusers, as money-grubbing gold diggers and LIARS, they had to keep changing their stories. READ the court transcripts, it is all public information. Michael Jackson was FORCED by his insurance company to "pay off " the Chandlers in 1993, when he actually wanted to fight in court for his innocence (proof here: http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/its-not-up-to-michael-jacksons-fans-to-prove-that-he-was-innocent-its-up-to-michael-jacksons-haters-to-prove-that-he-was-guilty/ AND here: http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/mjagreement/). The Chandlers brought Michael Jackson into a CIVIL case before a CRIMINAL one, not seeking justice against the "perpetrator", but seeking MONEY first. There is evidence that Jordan Chandler admitted that he lied that MJ molested him. He said in the court papers, he refused to testify because "he did his part". Once the Chandlers got their money, they split. Michael Jackson's FBI files are public info: http://vault.fbi.gov/Michael%20Jackson/ <---THOSE are the actual files, not something conjured by a tabloid website. It's a shame how the media can manipulate the public like that. They know you won't take time from your busy life to do any research on someone, because it doesn't concern you, so it's easy to accuse someone or make them guilty in the public's eye. This is just a smidgeon of evidence that I have written, because there is too much in support of his innocence. In the real world, whether someone is innocent or guilty doesn't matter, once the news has attached your name to a situation, you will immediately either think well or ill of the person. It's very sad that we all are so dependent on the news alone.


EVEN MORE evidence: http://itsinournature.wordpress.com/2014/01/08/mjfam-a-short-summary-on-michael-jacksons-innocence/


Yes, because the internet doesn't lie! ::)


Furthermore, your links of 'proof' come from wordpress - A BLOG.

Really? I'm mean? That's a laugh man. Ok.  ;D



Actually, yes, you are being mean.  Q didn't set this poll up to make you angry, it is an opinion poll.  You can post your opinion without being rude, which is what you are doing.  Maybe it is time for you to pull yourself off the pedestal you have put yourself on and realize that just because someone disagrees with you, it isn't to make you mad, it is that they disagree with you.  You see him the way you see him and we see him the way we see him and nothing will change it.  In fact, all the MJ love that spills out all over this damn board has made me so sick of him, I can't stand it.  I used to be able to listen to some of his stuff from the early 80's, but it all makes me sick to my stomach. 


And, Q has already explained why she can't come out with the info she knows.  Working in the legal field, there is stuff that can not be talked about if it is in a sealed record.  Your precious opinion is not worth her job. 


And, if you feel attacked (because I know that is what you are going to cry, that's what you always cry) tough stuff, baby.  You attacked one of my friends and I stand behind my friends. 

Hmm... just like all of the other members who come here to post daily and find more rantings about MJ by his 'SuperFans' and apollonia recruiting more of her friends to the board to try and overrun the place with MJ crap? Now you know how the rest of us feel...



And here is where your hypocritical rant starts.
I can actually say that after reading this statement, and then the rest of your rant - there isn't a single bit in your quote boxes below that aren't judgmental and prejudiced.




Yes, because the internet doesn't lie! ::)


Furthermore, your links of 'proof' come from wordpress - A BLOG.





Tam!  I love you!  You have a brutal honesty, that I can so appreciate!  Even when I am at the receiving end of that brute!  Thank you!!! 

I'm over it. Have fun with it, I'm off to other parts of the forum that are more fun for me.  :) No harm no foul.
I can't change people's opinions, they can't change mine, so that's that.

Peace.

I'm literally fudgeing shaking right now at the degree of ignorance and idiocy going on right now. I've never seen the likes of it in all my damn life. I back up Taylor because I know in my heart that MJ did no wrong. And Snoz, I'm sick to fudgeing death of you claiming to flaunt knowledge of the case. Put up or shut up. If you know something, then fudgeing say it. If you don't quit claiming it and sit down some fudgeing where. If you think I'm being mean or aggressive, then so be it. You don't know me in person, and godddamn it, you don't need to know me.


This. I give you a prime example of the generation that believes they know it all, need to be heard and are entitled.
And it should be said that you have just offended me with your vocabulary. Your ignorance is unbecoming.

Michael is innocent. He didn't do anything and if anyone here cannot take it, then I'm sorry for you. You can say what you want, you won't change my mind. Just because you call him a pedophile and this and that, I'm supposed to suddenly change my mind after 18 years of being a fan HELL NO.My own mother couldn't change my mind, and guess what, I LOVED HER. So you can put up all the polls and posts and things you want, I'm a rock, I won't MOVE.



Just as - you can say what You want but you aren't going to change others' minds.
Just because you say he is innocent and this and that, we're supposed to change our minds after 20+ more years than you? NO.


And I didn't see anywhere in this thread where people said 'apollonia, you need to change your mind'. Seriously, everything isn't about you. If you can come here daily and post all you want about MJ, so can other people.

... he needed a friend. A REAL friend, not a celebrity brown-noser!



Exactly.

Nice weather we are having, huh?


Cat

My concern was the kids on the witness stand stating they were in his bed, but it was all innocent

There is no reason those kids should have ever been in his bed.  He was 100% guilty


I think at one time he had Emmanuel Lewis and Macaulay Culkin over at his house during the early 90's. ???

his behavior, and the fact he died of his own hand immediately tells me he will not be in heaven anytime soon!  And he did not believe in heaven!


He believed in Jesus.

http://www.mugshots.net/michael_jackson/michael_jackson.jpg

Nice weather we are having, huh?


Cat


Actually, yes.  It was almost 50 yesterday and they were threatening us with a major snowstorm overnight.  It missed the valley and hit the mountains and the ski resorts just in time for Sundance Film Festival.  I would say it's perfect. :D

Actually, yes.  It was almost 50 yesterday and they were threatening us with a major snowstorm overnight.  It missed the valley and hit the mountains and the ski resorts just in time for Sundance Film Festival.  I would say it's perfect. :D



We are having our January Thaw, too. A great relief from that Polar Vortex.



Cat

And I am certain there were some kids who were never touched who saw a free ride to college or a new car. Or a down payment on the house.... But that doesn't negate the fact that there were some kids who were victimized.  One kid is one kid too many.


Absolutely!  He can't have been inappropriate with EVERY child.  There had to be some discretion.

They had FOURTEEN chances to throw Michael's ass in the slammer. FOURTEEN charges. All FOURTEEN cleared. Afterwards the jurors even said they did the right thing. What more do you need? Michael's ghost to float down from heaven--or be spewed from the bowels of hell let some tell it-- to say he didn't do it.


Oh, his word again?  I still wouldn't believe it. 

We are having our January Thaw, too. A great relief from that Polar Vortex.



Cat



I bet.  We didn't get anywhere near as cold as I am sure you did back east.  Brrrrr

Actually, yes.  It was almost 50 yesterday and they were threatening us with a major snowstorm overnight.  It missed the valley and hit the mountains and the ski resorts just in time for Sundance Film Festival.  I would say it's perfect. :D


It was cold today.

soooo..... what'd I miss while i was gone?  ::)


nice to know people can a civil discussion about things that hold zero weight in the comings and goings of their everyday lives...

no one on these boards (including myself) was personally involved or affected in any real way by this case.  being a fan and caring is not the same thing as being involved and directly impacted but may or may not have happened...

I don't know why you all get so up in arms and over protective over something that really shouldn't mean squat to you because.... he is not you. he was not your brother, cousin, nephew, uncle father or son... he is nothing but a person who could sing and dance and entertained you... gave you some form of escape but really did nothing for you personally...

soooo why are you all so defensive?


btw... I would be happy if once.... just one.... one of you would say "I don't believe he molested, or touched, those boys in an inappropriate manner but I agree he was guilty of making poor judgement calls in how he chose to spend time alone with them."  Maybe just once one of you could admit that the sleep overs and having little boys in a grown man's bed who was a really bad idea....


It would be so refreshing.  People aren't perfect they make mistakes.


I get we are always going to disagree.... the point of this poll was never to convince you MJ believers to come to our side...it was to guage where as many members of the board stood.

the reason I asked for no one who signed up after 1/11 to vote is, I know there are a lot of fans out there, I didn't want you to go recruit more members to come here and attempt to commandeer these boards....  you have to admit it's hard to believe that 3 super MJ fans found this board on the exact same day....

Hey, courtesy of this very board i've had to confront the fact that Led Zeppelin, probably my favorite rock band of all time, pretty much stole every song they ever played. Never mind the whole weird spanking-hookers-with-fish thing. Being a fan of pop stars is no easy task sometimes. MJ fans are gonna have to just buck up and face it eventually.

Michael Jackson had admitted sharing his bed with children and at the time, he said that he saw nothing wrong with a 44-year-old man having such relationships.  He was quoted as saying "I give them hot milk, you know, we have cookies. It's very charming, it's very sweet, it's what the whole world should do"

Do people who support Michael Jackson, also support pedophilia?

Seriously?


yes...  I am serious....


Michael was NOT a pedophile.

that's your opinion... which you are completely entitled to.

evidence was illegally fabricated in the 2005 case by DA Tom Sneddon (who should be in jail right now for that), if you only depend on tabloid news reports (which are NEVER 100% factual),


um... I get my facts from some main and reliable sources not the media...  but then again... where did you get your sources on the above statements... please don't quote those links you provided... I'm sorry just because it was written by some fan doesn't make it a reliable source. 

if you only think MJ is a pervert based on how "weird" you think he is, then you have no right to call him anything.

I don't think I ever said he was a pedophile because he was weird. If that's how it was interpreted than I apologize for misleading you...  I think he was a pedophile because I believe what I believe....

I think he became weird because of mental deficiency.... self esteem issues and years of abuse by Joe making him feel he wasn't ever good enough.  I think he got all that work done because he wanted to escape the monster he saw when he looked in the mirror... unfortunately self fulfilling prophecies being what they are...his self perception caused him to create a face that many/most.... alot of us (especially those that witnessed the transformation before their eyes... saw as monstrous.  it's tragic really... he was good looking young man but hated himself so much he had become something other than what he saw when he looked at himself.  (im going on 24hrs without sleep so if that makes no sense figure it out)






If you think he had child porn, you're wrong, because it was 100% legal adult porn they found. He was human, he was lonely and he had that bad habit of having playboy magazines since he was like 11.

I'm not discussing porn... howard posts here... the thread will get off track if I do... you are to new to know this but others know what i'm talking about.... Hi Howard!  :)



You may be ale to pay hush money to local police officers, but Michael Jackson could not pay off the FBI.


um FBI is made up of human beings... any number of whom who can be bought.. i'm not claiming they were.... by any means i'm not talking about the fbi at all... 

of you to include that link to the FBI files... but

some information has been redacted from all the files 
62 shows 13 pages have been deleted
95 shows 4 pages have been deleted
9  shows that 111 pages have been deleted
62 part 3 shows 123 pages have been deleted
62 part 2 shows that 95 pages have been deleted



so I'm not sure how you could've read everything... I mean obviously there are some huge chunks missing from what you believe to be true...



Plus, the sheriffs in Santa Barbara County (namely one *cough* Tom Sneddon* didn't like MJ any way, were prejudiced and racist, so I doubt they would cut Jackson any "favors")

Tom Sneddon was not a sherriff in SB County he was the DA... there's a difference...

and I take great offense to you calling the people I work with day in and out prejudiced and racist. you do not know them.. you only know what you've read which are opinions presented by people (fellow fans like yourself) who don't know them either... that was uncalled for and, unlike you and your opinion of MJ... the people you are talking about are my colleagues





If Michael Jackson was in possession of ANY child porn, he would have went to prison, because that is a federal offense.

why do you keep talking about child porn? not all pedophiles have it.... that's like saying all criminals own a gun... many people who have committed crimes have never touched a gun a day in their lives.....


Every single family and employee were demolished on the witness stand, including the accusers, as money-grubbing gold diggers and LIARS, they had to keep changing their stories.



at the end of the day michael had better attorneys.... I can concede that fact... that doesn't change the fact that I *emphasis on I* still believe... and always will believe he is guilty...

I don't want to come off as being a dick or anything, but I fail to see the point of this thread.

Let me put it this way, if Snoz says so, I believe the person is guilty. So I choose guilty.  ;)

I'll admit though, I love Mike's music, but the guy had an ego the size of the Milky way galaxy! When people don't tell you no, you keep going!




smart man  lol


in all seriousness tho... I honestly believe the sadest part of the whole demise of MJ is there was never really anyone in his life giving him good advice... particularly in the end.. I'm not talking about Catherine.. I'm talking about his handlers... if he had a better manager, agent and assistants he might still be alive today...oh god please lets not talk about conrad...

Just because someone was acquitted doesn't mean they are not guilty. (Look at George Zimmerman.)


I have always like his music-first as part of the Jackson 5 and then with his solo career. I, too used to watch the cartoon back in the '70s. He also had a lot of great hits like Billie Jean, Beat It, & Thriller but that has nothing to do with his actions.


It really makes me angry because he was famous and had boocoo $$$$$$$$$$ that he could pay his way out of it. Like many have already said, the man was sick and needed a lot of help. But instead of getting the help he desperately needed, he had a group of people who enabled him which lead to his death. The same thing could be said about Anna Nicole and even Elvis. I think if he was convicted, it could have saved his life. If he was locked up, maybe he could have gotten the help he really needed.


Instead of focusing on MJ not getting the help he needed, we really should be focusing on the help his victims need. They are going to have problems ALL OF THEIR LIVES!!!! Being molested leaves a lasting scar that never goes away. I know because I was molested at the age of 13. And the guy got away with it because I was not brave enough to tell ANYONE that I was molested even though my mother suspected. 


Cat



Zimmerman is an excellent analogy Cat!  Karma when I come back through and do that... not doing it now... and no I will not be fudging anyone... I wanted to have a discusion I just wish people could discuss rather than rant...


Ben is still - even now- one of my favorite songs... that doesn't negate my beliefs in anyway.


I agree with the other stuff you said but I'm skipping it because I want to say i'm truly sorry that happened to you and that you had to live that secret because of your fears. It sucks.  Children's voices should be heard especially in times of their greatest needs.

I wasn't with those MJ kids any of them but I can imagine how excited their parents were... you know about their kids getting to meet him and all that...the kids probably didn't want to let them down...

They had FOURTEEN chances to throw Michael's ass in the slammer. FOURTEEN charges. All FOURTEEN cleared. Afterwards the jurors even said they did the right thing. What more do you need? Michael's ghost to float down from heaven--or be spewed from the bowels of hell let some tell it-- to say he didn't do it.


they had jurors who felt like you...it's not like they could really find an impartial jury.... it's not like anyone didn't know who he was.... if they had me on the jury there would've been a mistrial....just sayin...    I wouldn't have been impartial either but I would've been pulling for the other side... it would've been 12 angry men the 05 edition lol

I don't want to come off as being a dick or anything, but I fail to see the point of this thread.


I kind of see it as a way to end the discussion about Michael Jackson for good, but it only seems to be prolonging it lol

I kind of see it as a way to end the discussion about Michael Jackson for good, but it only seems to be prolonging it lol


It seems to me like this thread is nothing more than a cheap shot at a certain member, but then again, what the hell do I know.  ::)

I'm going to play's devil's advocate for a bit here.

Let's say you're a huge Michael Jackson fan, and you don't believe Snozberries about the hidden evidence and things. You have the right to believe Michael Jackson was innocent and you have the right to still like him.

I'm just saying this for those who do believe Michael was guilty. People don't know the whole story, so I can see why some people would think MJ is innocent. Also, not everyone is going to believe Snoz (although I do) because they don't know her, or they just plain don't have any evidence/proof to believe her.

I also think it's hard to 'let go' of a goody-goody image of an idol you've known for decades. Let's say you've been a MJ fan since 1969, when the Jackson five became popular, until 1993. It's going to be hard for some people to let go or detach the music from the man, I mean 1968/1969 to 1993 is 24/25 years, that's a long time!

Anyways, just another aspect!

-80sfan-

You cannot prove any of the aquittels.







does acquittals mean something different in the UK than it does in the US... like Jumpers and bonnet and chips and some other words mean different things? ? ?


If it does then please explain... if it doesn't then you just said I can't prove that MJ was not convicted of the crimes with which he was charged.....


Just think of the case against Mike Tyson, a huge boxing star, who is a convicted rapist and got about 6 years in prison I think. he broke the law and was punished for it.

Michael Jackson did nothing wrong and was therefore not punished.



Cat gave you George Zimmerman... I have two other words for you... OJ Simpson.... 


He truly did not have it in him to hurt a single person on this earth, and I firmly believe he is innocent. there is no one in this world who could even shake that belief.



there are pedophiles out there...lots of them... who do not believe what they do is harmful... they truly believe what they feel is love and what they do is an expression of that love.... I hope you were able to see (and watched) the oprah clip I posted...it's not about MJ it's about the nature of pedophiles (some of them) and how they are able to nurture children into the abuse. 

I do not now nor do I ever believe he physically retrained, tortured or you know brutalized the children in a rageful act of pure terror I think he nurtured them, talked to them... what we call grooming... and then when they were at their most vulunerable point that's when he engaged in sexual behavior with them



so make as many of these forums or polls as you wish, you will not shake the believers.
All you do is set out to cause a stir and get some attention, so congratulations, you achieved a little goal, but that is all you will ever achieve.

please show me where I have ever said you have to believe what I do...

please show me where I have said you need to believe what I do...

all I have done is stated my opinion and questioned this blind loyalty and your compilation of so called facts

It seems to me like this thread is nothing more than a cheap shot at a certain member, but then again, what the hell do I know.  ::)


Snoz made this thread because I posted in the MJ dead celeb forum, and asked somebody, if there was any proof that Michael was a pedophile.

At least I think that's why this thread was created.

Why are you using so many curse word and attacking Q for?
Rude and so mean to other members....


thanks warped... I got this



FROM APOLLONIA:
I'm literally fudgeing shaking right now at the degree of ignorance and idiocy going on right now. I've never seen the likes of it in all my damn life. I back up Taylor because I know in my heart that MJ did no wrong. And Snoz, I'm sick to fudgeing death of you claiming to flaunt knowledge of the case. Put up or shut up. If you know something, then fudgeing say it. If you don't quit claiming it and sit down some fudgeing where. If you think I'm being mean or aggressive, then so be it. You don't know me in person, and godddamn it, you don't need to know me.





Tif I'm not sure why you get so upset and take this so personally. I know what you believe. I don't agree but, for like the 27th time, I'm not trying to change your opinion... but I was curious where the members of this message board stand in the debate... and it's a discussion...it's really shouldn't affect you this viscerally... 


By the same token you don't know me personally. In fact you've never really taken the time to know me. I have tried to start conversations with you but they always fall flat or you find some way to bring MJ into it.  The thing that strikes me most is you have never really taken time to retain any information about me (other than my personal feelings about MJ) but you want everyone to take an interest in you. That's fine. I'm more secure in who I am in this world I get that... but you better believe I didn't start this thread because of you...it's not a personal attack about you. It was an honest attempt to gauge the climate about a hot button issue.  if you aren't mature enough to handle the discussion perhaps you should let the adults keep talking while you go sulk in the corner...

does acquittals mean something different in the UK than it does in the US... like Jumpers and bonnet and chips and some other words mean different things? ? ?


If it does then please explain... if it doesn't then you just said I can't prove that MJ was not convicted of the crimes with which he was charged.....



Cat gave you George Zimmerman... I have two other words for you... OJ Simpson.... 


Wealth and fame has little to do with it. Michael is innocent and I am so angry that his innocence is still in question. After everything he has done for the world and the children of the world.
there are pedophiles out there...lots of them... who do not believe what they do is harmful... they truly believe what they feel is love and what they do is an expression of that love.... I hope you were able to see (and watched) the oprah clip I posted...it's not about MJ it's about the nature of pedophiles (some of them) and how they are able to nurture children into the abuse. 

I do not now nor do I ever believe he physically retrained, tortured or you know brutalized the children in a rageful act of pure terror I think he nurtured them, talked to them... what we call grooming... and then when they were at their most vulunerable point that's when he engaged in sexual behavior with them



please show me where I have ever said you have to believe what I do...

please show me where I have said you need to believe what I do...

all I have done is stated my opinion and questioned this blind loyalty and your compilation of so called facts


Is this sarcasm? Are you talking about Mike Tyson helping kids or Michael Jackson?  ;D

I was 34 in 2005.


My vote is Undecided.


I say that because, although acquitted of all charges - something went down in order for there to be an investigation. Not once, but twice.


that's fair...at least it's unbiased