what do you think?!?!

Debate over lowering the drinking age is heating up in several states, fueled in part by legislators who contend that men and women who are old enough to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan are responsible enough to buy alcohol legally.

Legislation introduced in Kentucky, Wisconsin and South Carolina would lower the drinking age for military personnel only. A planned ballot initiative in Missouri would apply to everyone 18 and older. An initiative in the works in South Dakota would allow all 19- and 20-year-olds to buy low-alcohol beer.

Vermont's legislature is considering a task force to study the issue. A Minnesota bill would allow anyone 18 and older to buy alcohol in bars or restaurants, but not in liquor stores until they're 21.

MORE: Vermont mulls lower drinking age

"There's a public interest in reopening this debate … and the idea is picking up steam" says John McCardell, a former president of Vermont's Middlebury College who founded Choose Responsibility. The non-profit group supports allowing 18- to 20-year-olds to drink legally after they complete an alcohol education program.

Proponents face opposition from Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) and a potentially costly obstacle: Congress voted in 1984 to penalize states that set the drinking age below 21 with forfeiture of 10% of their federal highway funds. That threat "may prove to be a deal-breaker" for his bill, says Minnesota state Rep. Chris DeLaForest.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says laws setting the drinking age at 21 have cut traffic fatalities involving drivers ages 18-20 by 13%. "We welcome the attention to the drinking age," says MADD CEO Chuck Hurley. "The data is in fact overwhelming."

Those laws haven't ended underage drinking, says state Sen. Hinda Miller, who wants a task force to study the issue and report to Vermont's legislature next year. "I want to start talking about it," she says.

A 2007 Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans oppose lowering the drinking age to 18, but state Rep. Fletcher Smith, sponsor of a bill that would allow military personnel 18 and older to buy alcohol in South Carolina, disagrees. "If you can take a shot on the battlefield," he says, "you ought to be able to take a shot of beer legally."

State Rep. David Floyd, whose bill would apply to Kentucky troops 18 and older, says it's "common sense to recognize as full adults the young men and women who serve in the military."

At a U.S. Senate hearing last fall on the issue, deputy transportation secretary Thomas Barrett, a retired Coast Guard vice admiral, said, "I hear this bandied about that if you are old enough to fight for your country, you are old enough to have a beer. … I don't think it's the same type of maturity."

Missouri 18 To Drink has concluded it can't collect the 100,000 signatures needed by May to put its initiative on November's ballot and is now aiming for the 2010 election, says organizer Michael Mikkelsen. South Dakota's legislature "is understandably apprehensive about the topic," says lawyer N. Bob Pesall, who drafted that state's petition.

"We're going to need a groundswell," says state Rep. Terry Musser, sponsor of the Wisconsin bill that would allow troops 19 and older to drink legally. "We're going to have to have real people out there say 'enough is enough.' "

Alexander Wagenaar, an epidemiology professor at the University of Florida who studies alcohol issues, doubts that will happen. Interest in lowering the drinking age is "a surprising trend," he says, because studies consistently show that raising it "has substantially reduced the amount of drinking and the amount of damage due to drinking."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-20-drinkingage_N.htm

http://www.comcast.net/data/fan/html/popup.html?v=702023713&pl=702227452.xml&plc=702227452&launchpoint=Cover&cid=fancover&attr=default_headline&config=/config/common/fan/default.xml

I say sure why not.  Here in Canada, the legal age to drink is 19 with the exception of Quebec where you can drink at 18

It's been 18 in the UK for years  :-\\

Yes.

I agree with the assessment that if men and women are old enough to die for their country at 18, then they should be able to drink. Not only that, but most of the people I know started drinking at an earlier age anyways. Hell, I started at 14. Not giving my seal of approval to start THAT early, but I'm just saying that it is common to start drinking earlier than 21, be it at 20, 18, 17, etc.

I've been a sociable drinker since I was about 14 years old. Granted, I spent the majority of my life in a country without a morally puritanical view of the 'evils' of alcohol, but I am in no way shape or form an alcoholic, neither do I have any trouble with any other substances.

If one is able to fight and die to defend one's rights, then one should have every single one of those rights extended to them.

pretty much agree with what Jessica said

it was 18. then it changed.  now its 21.

I don't think i want it to go back. right now the 18 year olds try to go out and get drinks.  sometimes they get in and it ruins everyone's time.  they are loud and stupid and too young and drive afterwards.

if the age goes back to 18, the 1 year olds will be doing the same, just without the driving part.

it was 18. then it changed.  now its 21.

I don't think i want it to go back. right now the 18 year olds try to go out and get drinks.  sometimes they get in and it ruins everyone's time.  they are loud and stupid and too young and drive afterwards.

if the age goes back to 18, the 1 year olds will be doing the same, just without the driving part.




It is quite different these days.  Most 18 year olds that I see today are very immature and dont know how to behave

I was allowed a small drink with food under supervised conditions as young as 12. It was never an issue for me. And since I was taught responsible drinking as a young teenager, I grew up to drink more responsibly than probably 95% of my peers, who more than likely never was introduced alcohol at a young age.

I don't particularly agree with any age limit on the consumption of alcohol, but if there must be, 16 should be it.

how about the 18 year olds who are in the military can drink because we've already given them guns so why not trust them with beer?

It is quite different these days.  Most 18 year olds that I see today are very immature and dont know how to behave


This is what i see as well- heck my brother is 19, and at times do not think he is mature enough to even drive, let alone legally let him drink...SCARY!!!

but the truth is their going to drink anyway... don't worry about making drinking legal just make stricter laws for public intoxication and driving under the influence. issuing a minor in possession ticket is whack.

It is quite different these days.  Most 18 year olds that I see today are very immature and dont know how to behave


My parents were saying the same thing 20 years ago

how about the 18 year olds who are in the military can drink because we've already given them guns so why not trust them with beer?


they are not the same thing.

if you are in the military and use a weapon, you go through training.  i cannot vouch for the depth of that training, but there is no class that tells you how to keep your eyes on the road when you're driving buzzed, how to fight guys bigger than you or how to make a bad dicision when going home with a guy. 


It is quite different these days.  Most 18 year olds that I see today are very immature and dont know how to behave


completely.

they are not the same thing.

if you are in the military and use a weapon, you go through training.  i cannot vouch for the depth of that training, but there is no class that tells you how to keep your eyes on the road when you're driving buzzed, how to fight guys bigger than you or how to make a bad dicision when going home with a guy. 

completely.



no but at least once you've gone through basic training you have you maturity level in check. 

a lot of people over the age of 21 drive after drinking so really I don't think there'd be that much of a difference.... like I said.. the kids are already drinking anyway so why not legalize it and free up the courts a little

I am playing devils advocate here.  Why is alcohol legal and marijuana illegal?  I do not smoke marijuana but it is a fair question.  It definitely kills brain cells, but so does alcohol.  DO NOT USE "THE DOOR TO OTHER DRUGS" argument.  It is the door to other drugs because it is illegal.   I believe Alcohol impairs judgement when driving more than marijuana.

The real answer probably is that Alcohol is big business and too powerful to fight.  If marijuana were legal, anyone could cheaply grow it and there wouldnt be much profit there for big business.  Just my thoughts

Why is alcohol legal and marijuana illegal?  I do not smoke marijuana but it is a fair question.  It definitely kills brain cells, but so does alcohol.  DO NOT USE "THE DOOR TO OTHER DRUGS" argument.  It is the door to other drugs because it is illegal.  I believe Alcohol impairs judgement when driving more than marijuana.

The real answer probably is that Alcohol is big business and too powerful to fight.  If marijuana were legal, anyone could cheaply grow it and there wouldnt be much profit there for big business.  Just my thoughts


see you answered your own question... when Malboro or Camel decide to manufacture and distribute marijuana cigarettes then mj will be legalized. 

no but at least once you've gone through basic training you have you maturity level in check.   



Sorry Girl but I have to disagree.

Maturity levels aren't scored in BT.
Speed, agility, accuracy etc are.

I'm not saying that everyone who comes out of BT is still immature, but the sad reality is that a lot of them are still kids at heart.
We see it here all the time - even Soldiers who have come back from Iraq, buying super expensive cars that end up being repo'd all because they really haven't been given the tools in order to keep their finances straight. They aren't given any social skills either, so they are here, at 21, in the clubs, fighting and acting like idiots, drinking in public places and claiming they should be allowed to do whatever they want because they fought for our freedom! It is actually quite sad.

I don't know if I agree with the drinking age thing, but I do agree with early exposure to alcohol. That way as a parent I can somewhat influence how my child will act the first time s/he drinks without parentals around. ;)

I don't think i want it to go back. right now the 18 year olds try to go out and get drinks.  sometimes they get in and it ruins everyone's time.  they are loud and stupid and too young and drive afterwards.




Welcome to England! Inside noisy and obnoxious drunk 18 year olds, and a few who look 18 but are much younger. Outside very drunk and lairy 15 year olds laying in the gutter and puking everywhere. Kind of why I gave up going out in town on the weekend.  :-\\

Allow me to transcribe a snippet from from one of the greatest rants of all time:


"Now another thing that's kinda gettin' on my nerves.  Another thing that's gettin' on my nerves is this national 21 drinkin' age.  Huh, whaddya think about that??!?  A BUNCH OF MALARKY!  (Whatever malarky is, man, it's a WHOLE BUNCH OF IT!) 

You know, if Reagan finally gets the war he's lookin' for, y-y-yyou think they're gonna be draftin' 21-year-olds?  NO, MAN!  They're gonna be draftin' 18- and 19-year-olds!  But you can't buy beer.  Can't buy beer.

You can get married and screw yourself up real good, but you can't buy beer.

You can charge eight million dollars on the MasterCharge, can't buy beer.

You can vote for one fool or another, but you can't buy beer.

'Cuz this is America.  America that's run by the lowest common denominator.  The money.  How many units didja move, Mojo?  How many things of apple juice did they sell?  HUH?  Come on SUCKERS!  Come on feel it!  FEEL IT!  I said BURN DOWN THE MALLS..."

- Burn Down the Malls, Mojo Nixon and Skid Roper, from Frenzy, 1986.

22 years later, and nothing's changed.

If you're old enough to have a say in whther Hillary!, Obama, or McCain becomes the next President, you're old enough to get have a beer before you pull the lever, and you're sure as hell old enough to drown your sorrows the morning after. 

And if a blanket 18 is too much for the Nanny State 2.0 to swallow, how about this as a compromise: anyone with the testicular/ovular fortitude to volunteer to die for the foreign policy objectives of Hillary!, Obama, McCain, and whatever farksticks run in 2012 and 2016, oughta be deemed old enough to have a goddamned beer while on base and under the supervision of his/her superior officers.

End. Prohibition. Now.

Nixon/Roper '12.

The legal drinking age in Australia has been 18 for decades.

But irrespective of what the legal age is - any kid of any age is still going to make attempts at doing something simply because its illegal.

So if it was raised to 21 here - people under 21 would still drink.

I would prefer to see the teaching of responsible drinking (ie because it tastes nice and enhances your dining pleasure rather than "its a great way to end the night puking or in bed with a stranger".

I would also like to see the driving age in Australia raised and a limit to the engine size of a vehicle increased in stages as the person becomes more adept at driving. Similar to our laws regarding motor bikes. Most teen deaths here are caused by parents buying high powered V8 vehicles for their kids who have had their permit for a month and have no idea how to control such a motor.

I've been a sociable drinker since I was about 14 years old. Granted, I spent the majority of my life in a country without a morally puritanical view of the 'evils' of alcohol, but I am in no way shape or form an alcoholic, neither do I have any trouble with any other substances.

If one is able to fight and die to defend one's rights, then one should have every single one of those rights extended to them.


I was a social drinker, but not always sociable, not after a pint of JD!  Vug you! Vug off! Muddervuggerzzz!
:D

Old enough to smoke, get married, see dirty movies, old enough to perform in dirty movies, and old enought go die on the battlefield (but not necessarily in that order), you should be able to buy beer.

I understand the MADD rationale, but following tht logic, shouldn't we prohibit alcohol outright, or maybe just raise the driving age to 30?  Imagine how many more lives you could save!

I don't mean to make light of DUI.  I just wonder if there's not a better way of addressing the problem than treating 18 year olds like children. 
::)

Here's an interesting link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_age

The overwhelming majority of countries (including most of those in the Middle East!)  have legal drinking ages of 18 or less.


The message that sends to me is that, while our leaders keep touting America as being the greatest country on Earth, apparently they also feel that we have the least responsible teenagers as well.

I can't begin to imagine how boring it must be to be 19 years-old and not in college. What the hell are 19 and 20 year-olds supposed to do for fun? (I spent those years in the Army, and I'm glad I did.)



no but at least once you've gone through basic training you have you maturity level in check.

Not to be rude, but yeah, right! 

I did the whole Army thing and I can tell you that while it can make a person more self-confident and physically stronger, it doesn't necessarily increase your "maturity level." Believe me, I know. All the guys I went through basic with who were immature jagoffs at the beginning were still immature jagoffs after they graduated.

When I was in AIT (Advance Individual Training) we earned 48-hour passes on the weekends, and to blow off steam we partook in binge drinking that would make Bluto Blutarsky proud. It's not like, since we had completed military training, our collective maturity had advanced to a level where we sat around sipping Chianti and eating cheese and discussed Greek philosophy. We did pretty much the same stupid stuff that the average group of 18 and 19 year-olds would've done if you gave them a keg of Bud Light.

On the other hand, I ended up getting stationed in Germany, and the very first thing a buddy from AIT and I did as soon as we got off the plane in Frankfurt was to make a beeline to the first airport bar we could find and gleefully pound our first legal beer. And after a few months in country it got to the point where, despite being 19 years old, going to the enlisted club for a few cold ones was no big deal anymore.  The novelty had worn off, and it really wasn't all that different than later on, when I was 23-24.

Really, I don't think age matters all that much, some people can just handle alcohol better than others. Some people are more prone to alcoholism and/or reckless behavior than others, regardless of how old they are.

I know some 18 year-olds whom I would much rather go drinking with than some 40 year-olds I know.

It's been 18 in the UK for ages now (as Karen said). It didn't do me any harm, however there is a major boozing problem in the UK now. Whether the legal drinking age has anything to do with it is doubtful.

I put other - as in I don't know . . .

. . . On the one hand, I think monitored drinking is acceptable (I had a sip of my dad's beer when I was a young 'un many a time - not that was any encouragement because he fermented awful beer, lol) and in some ways may allow the child to view alchohol for what it is rather than a rites of passage when they hit 21.

On the other hand, the UK does have an alchohol fuelled culture and it causes a lot of hospital beds to be filled after fights and extra policework on a Friday/Saturday night, not sure what the stats are in the US but you could expect them to rise if the age is lowered.

On the other other hand, you don't have to be under 21 to be an idiot, alchohol related crimes are not neccessarily age related.

So in conclusion . . . Erm . . . Still don't know, lol.

I don't know what it is but there is something within the British mentality that results in the binge drinking.  Elsewhere in Europe they have the same legal drinking age but don't have the same problem of Friday/Saturday night drunken brawling.

I don't know what it is but there is something within the British mentality that results in the binge drinking.  Elsewhere in Europe they have the same legal drinking age but don't have the same problem of Friday/Saturday night drunken brawling.


That's very true. My Spanish friend Reyes and I have chatted about the contrasting view of alcohol between the two countries. The UK seems to be fixated on the notion that, to have a good night out, you can't remember the night before - how stupid is that?  ??? ::)

I know my son who is a freshmen in college has been drinking on and off since his junior year,luckily we have not seen any ill effects from this he managed to have a 90 and above average for the rest of high school,he made the deans list for his first semester in college.There is alot of teenagers who must people wouldn't think would drink that do,I know my daughter 16 doesn't ,but she tells me that over 65% at her school do.
I know when I was 18 I could drink,then by the time it was 21 I was 21,but by the time I was 30 drinking just did not mean much.

That's very true. My Spanish friend Reyes and I have chatted about the contrasting view of alcohol between the two countries. The UK seems to be fixated on the notion that, to have a good night out, you can't remember the night before - how stupid is that?  ??? ::)


Yes, I really don't know why this is the case.  I know Tony Blair introduced the 24 hour opening to introduce a European style 'cafe culture' but the average Brit doesn't seem interested.

Allow me to transcribe a snippet from from one of the greatest rants of all time:
- Burn Down the Malls, Mojo Nixon and Skid Roper, from Frenzy, 1986.

22 years later, and nothing's changed.

If you're old enough to have a say in whther Hillary!, Obama, or McCain becomes the next President, you're old enough to get have a beer before you pull the lever, and you're sure as hell old enough to drown your sorrows the morning after. 

And if a blanket 18 is too much for the Nanny State 2.0 to swallow, how about this as a compromise: anyone with the testicular/ovular fortitude to volunteer to die for the foreign policy objectives of Hillary!, Obama, McCain, and whatever farksticks run in 2012 and 2016, oughta be deemed old enough to have a goddamned beer while on base and under the supervision of his/her superior officers.

End. Prohibition. Now.

Nixon/Roper '12.

Karma for quoting Skid & Mojo.  I had that song on a mix tape back in the day.  Back in the early '80s the feds threatened to cut off highway funds to the states if the legislatures didn't raise the age to 21 and Ronnie "Government Sucks" Reagan was all behind it.  Of course, the libertarians would tell you this is a good argument against the federal government funding highways!
:D

They should legalize pot too.  Just never, ever drive stoned!  Didja ever drive the wrong way up the same one-way street twice in 10 minutes in the middle of the night in a hostile neighborhood?
:o

I am playing devils advocate here.  Why is alcohol legal and marijuana illegal?  I do not smoke marijuana but it is a fair question.  It definitely kills brain cells, but so does alcohol.  DO NOT USE "THE DOOR TO OTHER DRUGS" argument.  It is the door to other drugs because it is illegal.  I believe Alcohol impairs judgement when driving more than marijuana.

The real answer probably is that Alcohol is big business and too powerful to fight.  If marijuana were legal, anyone could cheaply grow it and there wouldnt be much profit there for big business.  Just my thoughts


Speaking of alcohol being a big business.  In PA we have state run liquor stores.  The only other state that has this is Utah.  Why?  Beer and your basic wine cooler can be sold at a corner bar as takeout.  The good stuff is sold . . . by the state.

Speaking of alcohol being a big business.  In PA we have state run liquor stores.  The only other state that has this is Utah.  Why?  Beer and your basic wine cooler can be sold at a corner bar as takeout.  The good stuff is sold . . . by the state.


Utah just got worse.  Now you can't buy wine coolers at the store.  Some anti- alcohol group decided that it would cause kids to drink so they have to be sold at liquor stores.  I think it is just a way for the state to bilk you out of more money.

Utah just got worse.  Now you can't buy wine coolers at the store.  Some anti- alcohol group decided that it would cause kids to drink so they have to be sold at liquor stores.  I think it is just a way for the state to bilk you out of more money.


Oh gads no!!!  That has been the lame-ass excuse for people who are temperance since around 1984.  It taste like kool-aid so kids can become addicted to it.  So now you have to go to the state to get a bottle of Mike's Hard Lemonade. :P

"The best years of drinking are done while underage" - unknown

There was an extra thrill with drinking for me before I turned 21. It's taboo, illegal, rebellious, and so on - many teens at some point seek those things, which is one big reason underage drinking is very common. Drop the drinking age to 12 for all I care: I'd rather know if my kid is going to have problems with alcohol earlier than later. Take away the illegal aspect of drinking underage and some of the thrill goes along with it.

The drinking age will never be dropped that low, but if you're old enough to be tried as an adult, old enough to vote and old enough to serve in the military, then you're old enough to drink.

I voted dropping the age to 18, but I don't think it would do much overall. Problems with underage drinking, binge drinking, DUI and alcoholism are scarcely tied to the legal age one can purchase alcohol.

Ant

how about raising the driving age... I think 16 is far too young to be behind the wheel of a car... I know I was too young for it...

how about raising the driving age... I think 16 is far too young to be behind the wheel of a car... I know I was too young for it...


Good point!

I am playing devils advocate here.  Why is alcohol legal and marijuana illegal?  I do not smoke marijuana but it is a fair question.  It definitely kills brain cells, but so does alcohol.  DO NOT USE "THE DOOR TO OTHER DRUGS" argument.  It is the door to other drugs because it is illegal.   I believe Alcohol impairs judgement when driving more than marijuana.

The real answer probably is that Alcohol is big business and too powerful to fight.  If marijuana were legal, anyone could cheaply grow it and there wouldnt be much profit there for big business.  Just my thoughts



"The best years of drinking are done while underage" - unknown

There was an extra thrill with drinking for me before I turned 21. It's taboo, illegal, rebellious, and so on - many teens at some point seek those things, which is one big reason underage drinking is very common. Drop the drinking age to 12 for all I care: I'd rather know if my kid is going to have problems with alcohol earlier than later. Take away the illegal aspect of drinking underage and some of the thrill goes along with it.

The drinking age will never be dropped that low, but if you're old enough to be tried as an adult, old enough to vote and old enough to serve in the military, then you're old enough to drink.

I voted dropping the age to 18, but I don't think it would do much overall. Problems with underage drinking, binge drinking, DUI and alcoholism are scarcely tied to the legal age one can purchase alcohol.

Ant



Old enough to smoke, get married, see dirty movies, old enough to perform in dirty movies, and old enought go die on the battlefield (but not necessarily in that order), you should be able to buy beer.

I understand the MADD rationale, but following tht logic, shouldn't we prohibit alcohol outright, or maybe just raise the driving age to 30?  Imagine how many more lives you could save!

I don't mean to make light of DUI.  I just wonder if there's not a better way of addressing the problem than treating 18 year olds like children. 
::)


All excellent points.

For the record, I don't advocate drinking or drugs. In fact I think they can be harmful to society, regardless of how old you are when you do them. Alcohol actually can be worse, because it can cause you to become violent, and can be disastrous if you get behind the wheel. On that note, I think the best answer to that (although it would be harder and time consuming to fit "older" vehicles) are the breathalyzers that don't let you start the car if you're over a certain blood alcohol level.

Personally I've rarely drunk and never even smoked a cigarette before, so I can't speak on it from that side. But I know what it's like to have been in the minority of teenagers who never felt the urge to do stupid sh*t and got blended with those who did. I know what it feels like to say "Hey wait a second, not me" in a world where not many people are listening merely because of the actions of a majority of your peers.

The point being, I don't think there's an easy blanket solution because everyone is different in terms of responsibility for their actions. That's why issues like this have been debated for years and years. While there might be a higher percentage of irresponsible 18 year olds than irresponsible 45 year olds, that isn't to say the same rules apply to everyone. But like Red Ant said, I do think there is probably some thrill in doing things when you're not supposed to (again I can't personally relate to that, but I understand where it comes from), so perhaps if it were lowered that would solve a fraction of the problem.

Speaking of alcohol being a big business.  In PA we have state run liquor stores.  The only other state that has this is Utah. 


NC did too when I lived there.  More info here

Oh gads no!!!  That has been the lame-ass excuse for people who are temperance since around 1984.  It taste like kool-aid so kids can become addicted to it.  So now you have to go to the state to get a bottle of Mike's Hard Lemonade. :P


Yup, they are called alco-pops.  They look yummy so kids will want them.  Funny how they neglected to consider the fact that kids can't buy them.  They are kept by the beer and it is illegal to sell them to minors.  Our legislators tend to try to shove their morals down the states throat. ::)

Speaking of alcohol being a big business.  In PA we have state run liquor stores.  The only other state that has this is Utah.  Why?  Beer and your basic wine cooler can be sold at a corner bar as takeout.  The good stuff is sold . . . by the state.

New Hampshire's got 'em too!  Rigth near the highway and tax-free!  Yeee-haw!
:-\\

NC did too when I lived there.  More info here


Prohibition lives!!!  The only difference is that a few states realize it's a cash cow.

New Hampshire's got 'em too!  Rigth near the highway and tax-free!  Yeee-haw!
:-\\


With a State police cruiser near by.  They've probably got a whole system rigged up. ::)

With a State police cruiser near by.  They've probably got a whole system rigged up. ::)


I drank at 18 legally, in D.C (back in the mid late 80's)...when the drinking age went up to 21 in all the other states.
D.C. grandfathered in those who would of been able to drink legally at 18 before the law went into effect.
So we went down to the nations capital for a drink when we wanted one... ;)

As for PA, UT, NC or NH having state controlled liquor stores, many states still do with a lot of variances in how and what the serve to whom.

I used to live in MD and you could only buy liquor from a liquor store, no State troopers around but only from a liquor store.

In OH, you can buy alcohol up to 20 proof from the local supermarket or convenience store, but if you want the hard stuff you have to go to the state liquor stores, complete with a hard nosed looking Highway State Patrol trooper on duty (with a cruiser parked very visibly outside) and they close at 9 and are not open on Sundays. No advertising, pictures or promotional items at all, just a generic store with shelves and prices. Bright lights and cameras everywhere, not very inviting and very intimidating.

In California, well in Cali, I was knocked off my feet when I first when to get some beer to find any and all types of alcohol available on the supermarket shelf...Beer, wine, hard stuff, even Everclear, whatever you wanted was on the shelf across from the ice cream and frozen pizza, just like everything else. No big deal...

I'm told in Utah, if you are not a resident, you have to get a "sponsor" (a resident to vouch for you) to drink in a bar (I thought sponsors were needed if you needed to STOP drinking?)  ???

I was told in South Carolina, you can't just order mixed drinks, you have to buy the little bottles and pour them yourself, the barkeep can't do it for you, they can only pour beer. Gets expensive trying to buy a Long Island Iced Tea I bet...

With a State police cruiser near by.  They've probably got a whole system rigged up. ::)

Actually, that reminds me of something the Massachusetts state pigs did.  It's legal to purchase fireworks in NH during the Independence Day week, but it's illegal to sell them or even possess them in Mass.  So the cops posted snitches at the stores near the border (especially Salem) who would radio the plate numbers of the Massachusetts cars leaving the stores.  Then the cops would pull the cars over once they crossed the border.  The suckers would putter down Route 213, an easy catch for the cops.  I would either pass the fireworks to a second car or just cross the line on I-93 where the cops weren't looking!
::)

If a minor can enlist in the military at age 17 and fight for his/her Country they should be treated as an Adult. They should be allowed to make up their own mind if they want a beer at a club or not. I say 18 isn't fair either.

If a minor can enlist in the military at age 17 and fight for his/her Country they should be treated as an Adult. They should be allowed to make up their own mind if they want a beer at a club or not. I say 18 isn't fair either.


Good point.  If a 17 year old can fight and possibly die for their country, monitoring whether they have a drink or two is a petty concern.

I somewhat agree that if a person can fight and die for their country they should be able to drink....HOWEVER, as a Soldier myself I have seen the irresponsibility that Soldiers exhibit when they are of legal age.  I have seen DUI's where the person was barely able to walk but tried to drive.  I know of a Soldier that was so drunk he drove back to his barracks, and fell asleep being held in his truck by his seat belt.  He had opened his door and couldn't get our but was too drunk to realize it was because of the seat belt so he went to sleep.  Same Soldier also went to sleep under his truck another time.  Soldiers survive Iraq, including roadside bombs and sniper fire but die behind the wheel under the influence! So as you can see, the idea is good of the age for Soldiers but, is it really a good idea.

I remember going into a restaurant with my parents as a teenage (about age 15 or 16) and they used to order me drinks with my meal. In those days, a parent could buy a drink for their under age kids. I became "legal" twice.  :o :o :o  I turned 18 in New York when the legal drinking age was 18. Then the next year, I moved to Texas which at the time the legal drinking age was 19. By the time every state went up to 21, I was already old enough.

The problem is, just because you turn 18 or 21 or some other age, doesn't automatically make you mature. Hell, I know people in their 40s or 50s who are not mature. I think what SHOULD happen (but doesn't) is that parents should teach their kids to drink responsibly-like my parents did. Yes, you can have a drink with your meal but you can't have 5 drinks-and then get behind the wheel of a car. But what happens is that kids turn 21 and they feel like they have to make up for lost time and over-indulge which we all agree is not good. Of course you have people who are under 21 doing the same thing.

Personally, I think the drinking age SHOULD be set at 18. In this country (and others) 18 is the age of adulthood. You can vote at the age of 18, you can join the military and die for a stupid lie that your so-called president made at the age of 18, etc. etc.

(FYI: The voting age was lowered from 21 to 18 in 1971 by the 26th Amendment to the Constitution. Why? Because we were involved in a war in Vietnam. Kids at the age of 18 were drafted and as the line in the song "Eve of Destruction" goes, "You're old enough to kill, but not for votin'".  Now it is the same thing, "You're old enough to kill, but not for drinkin'" And personally, if I was out on the battlefield, afterwards, I would probably want a double or a triple.


Cat

I somewhat agree that if a person can fight and die for their country they should be able to drink....HOWEVER, as a Soldier myself I have seen the irresponsibility that Soldiers exhibit when they are of legal age. 


Personal opinion: All the more reason it should be 16 for everyone, whethery they're in the military or not. 

Realistic policy: At least the Army could train Soldiers in alcohol the same way they do to put on their gas masks.  With an exemption for anyone who objects on religious grounds, I'd like to see a Drill Sergeant take each recruit through up to 12 standard drinks in the course of a few hours as part of basic training.  "Soldiers, congratulations on your first legal beer.  Have another.  Soldiers, this is what it feels like for most of you to be too drunk to drive.  Have another.  Soldiers, this is what it's like for most of you to be buzzed.  Have another.  Soldiers, most of you are now drunk.  Have another.  Soldiers, see that mess Pvt. Smith just made?  That's his body telling him he's crossed the line.  Think you're better than him?  Have another..."

You've gotta pass a test to get your driver's license.  You've gotta be qualified on a weapon before you can shoot it at the range.  You should have to have experienced the effects of alcohol before you're allowed to drink it unsupervised.

That is certainly an interesting spin on the topic.  I can honestly say I have never heard an idea like yours.