Do you think there was a teen pop backlash, per se? In a way, there was a perceived one around 2002, with more angst-y pop like Pink, Avril Lavigne, etc. hitting the charts (though it was really quite like teen pop.) Also, I think there sort of was a nu metal backlash from the hipster community, since it's such an "unhip/crass" form of rock in some ways, leading to the rise of emo and super-stylish indie rock c. 2003.

Do you think there was a teen pop backlash, per se? In a way, there was a perceived one around 2002, with more angst-y pop like Pink, Avril Lavigne, etc. hitting the charts (though it was really quite like teen pop.) Also, I think there sort of was a nu metal backlash from the hipster community, since it's such an "unhip/crass" form of rock in some ways, leading to the rise of emo and super-stylish indie rock c. 2003.


You're right, 'Angsty-rock' was just teen pop with atitood! Not necessarily a backlash, but a perceived change to the teen pop image.

I think around 2002 Teen Pop and nu metal hit a backlash.

Yeah there was.  I remember last year, a girl decided to wear an NSync shirt just to see how people reacted.  Wow, you wouldn't believe the reactions.  "Why the hell are you wearing an NSync shirt?" "Do you still like freaking NSync?" and all sorts of reactions.  That example alone proves that a backlash occurred or else people wouldn't have reacted so negatively.

I think people are afraid to admit they ever liked it. Like a 16-year old emo kid would be embarassed to admit they liked SOAD and Linkin Park back when they were big, and most people who liked teen pop are sort of communally embarassed about it. What do you think the backlash entailed, though? Maybe it was the abandoning of melodic teen pop for glam rap and nu metal for the far more "stylish" emo.

It wasn't a loud backlash iit didn't become a laughingstock overnight. Still I think people would be embarrassed to blast backstreet boys or early britney spears from there cars right about now.

I dont know if nu metal was ever big enough to encounter a backlash.

It wasn't a loud backlash iit didn't become a laughingstock overnight. Still I think people would be embarrassed to blast backstreet boys or early britney spears from there cars right about now.

I dont know if nu metal was ever big enough to encounter a backlash.


I think it sort of did. Like people got sick of the highly masculine, near-"macho" image of bands like Limp Bizkit and Korn that was huge around 1998-2002 or so and went into the feminine image of the emo bands.

I think it sort of did. Like people got sick of the highly masculine, near-"macho" image of bands like Limp Bizkit and Korn that was huge around 1998-2002 or so and went into the feminine image of the emo bands.


It was a quick, but silent death.

It was a quick, but silent death.


When would you pinpoint it as being, like late 2003 to mid 2004? It's still there in remnants, but it's not a growing subculture recruiting new fans.

When would you pinpoint it as being, like late 2003 to mid 2004? It's still there in remnants, but it's not a growing subculture recruiting new fans.


I would say late 2001 to late 2005, actually. It was kind of slow. The turning point was probably the fall of 2003.

Although late 2004 was about when numetal died altogether. It was still pretty popular through most of 2004.

I would say late 2001 to late 2005, actually. It was kind of slow. The turning point was probably the fall of 2003.


Nu metal was always sort of despised when it was big, honestly, by alot of people. It was never as well-liked as previous rock trends like new wave and grunge. Particularly bands like Korn and Limp Bizkit, that earlier 1999 wave, whereas say SOAD were never as widely disliked, though alot of people saw all nu metal bands as "poseurs" and fake/overly commercial, and disliked the macho culture that went along with Fred Durst.

I think I remember thinking in late 2003 and early 2004 that nu metal was definitely starting its death as a subculture, with the rapid growth of the emo and hipster related subcultures at that time.

Nu metal was always sort of despised when it was big, honestly, by alot of people. It was never as well-liked as previous rock trends like new wave and grunge. Particularly bands like Korn and Limp Bizkit, that earlier 1999 wave, whereas say SOAD were never as widely disliked, though alot of people saw all nu metal bands as "poseurs" and fake/overly commercial, and disliked the macho culture that went along with Fred Durst.

I think I remember thinking in late 2003 and early 2004 that nu metal was definitely starting its death as a subculture, with the rapid growth of the emo and hipster related subcultures at that time.


Would you say numetal is a transition between the Grunge and emo eras, rather than truly a thing unto itself?

Would you say numetal is a transition between the Grunge and emo eras, rather than truly a thing unto itself?


In a way...though everything is a transition between something and something else. I think it was an attempt to revive radio hard rock, along with post-grunge, and tap into that macho, alienated teen male culture in a much more crass way than grunge did (the Limp Bizkit type groups, anyway) by the large record companies. Though there is that transition factor. Say Korn are much more like grunge, whereas Linkin Park are much more like emo.

In a way...though everything is a transition between something and something else. I think it was an attempt to revive radio hard rock, along with post-grunge, and tap into that macho, alienated teen male culture in a much more crass way than grunge did (the Limp Bizkit type groups, anyway) by the large record companies. Though there is that transition factor. Say Korn are much more like grunge, whereas Linkin Park are much more like emo.


Chester Bennington has an emo quality to him. Also nu metal capitalized off hip hop a lot.

Chester Bennington has an emo quality to him. Also nu metal capitalized off hip hop a lot.


People who disliked nu metal c. 2001 always said it was a scam by record companies to wean kids back onto rock from the rap-heavy 1995ish period by incorporating rap into it.

People who disliked nu metal c. 2001 always said it was a scam by record companies to wean kids back onto rock from the rap-heavy 1995ish period by incorporating rap into it.


Oddly though numetal is very "rockish".

Oddly though numetal is very "rockish".


It always confused me, I never really got the appeal of it. Heavy metal has more of a mystique and "indieness" to it in alot of ways.

It always confused me, I never really got the appeal of it. Heavy metal has more of a mystique and "indieness" to it in alot of ways.


I consider metal to be an "immature" taste, as insulting and arrogant as that is.

I consider metal to be an "immature" taste, as insulting and arrogant as that is.


I sort of tried to like it when I was eleven, and yeah, it is sort of an immature taste.

I consider metal to be an "immature" taste, as insulting and arrogant as that is.


Nu-metal yes, but calling Heavy metal 'immature' is sort of ignorant. You probably think that because of the head-banger image, but heavy metal is not just about power riffs, and blowing your mind out by listening to super-loud music. One can appreciate the intricacies of the guitarwork as well as the raw energy of the song. No, I doubt you've listened to much heavy metal, have you Donnie!  ;)

Nu-metal yes, but calling Heavy metal 'immature' is sort of ignorant. You probably think that because of the head-banger image, but heavy metal is not just about power riffs, and blowing your mind out by listening to super-loud music. One can appreciate the intricacies of the guitarwork as well as the raw energy of the song. No, I doubt you've listened to much heavy metal, have you Donnie!  ;)


Yeah, I take back that it's immature, it's just different.

Yeah, I take back that it's immature, it's just different.


Not liking a certain style of music or an artist and appreciating them are two different things. Like I'm not big on most Hip Hop/R 'n' B, but I can appreciate a good bassline, clever rhymes.etc. I guess you have to be in a certain mood to 'get' certain kinds of music, like dance music in clubs, or ambience music in the background. You wouldn't sit down to listen to 'Cocktail' or 'Art-gallery' music (the latter is a term I penned, lol), but they can be really relaxing in the background when you're studying, doing chores.etc (I find music with words distracting).

Wow, yeah, that actually makes sense. There was a giant wave of suck when these two genres merged.

Wow, yeah, that actually makes sense. There was a giant wave of suck when these two genres merged.


Muchas gracias! There definitely was a converse backlash. The backlash against teen pop created glam rap/R&B as the main form of mainstream music, and the whole image of emo is a backlash against nu metal.

Do you think there was a teen pop backlash, per se? In a way, there was a perceived one around 2002, with more angst-y pop like Pink, Avril Lavigne, etc. hitting the charts (though it was really quite like teen pop.) Also, I think there sort of was a nu metal backlash from the hipster community, since it's such an "unhip/crass" form of rock in some ways, leading to the rise of emo and super-stylish indie rock c. 2003.


Pink was already a big icon in music prior in 2002. "Most Girls" and "There You Go" were both really big hits in 2000. So Pink was already very popular before this so called backlash. Pink's 2nd album came out in late 01, and it had a whole new style of course, it was more grown up and had more of an edge than her very poppy first album. Shakira's Laundry Service also came out in late 2001. Then you had Michelle Branch also debuting around the fall of 01. So I think the new wave of pop began in the fall of 2001, and as that stuff became popular so did others (like Avril). Once one became popular, another one follwed, and so on. The same thing has happened with crunk or emo. Once "Get Low" became popular, a bunch of copycats followed and crunk ends up becoming a big part of hip-hop. This new pop was just more grown up and rockish than the ultra bubblegum late '90s-early 2001 pop. I guess you could say it's a "backlash" in a way, people were sick of the real bubblegum stuff and this more grown up pop became popular.