Both are comparable as change months. What dominated the Billboard Charts before the week of March 5, 1983 was stuff like James Austin and Patty Ingram. Suddenly, on March 5, 1983, "Billie Jean" hit #1 and songs by Culture Club and Duran Duran hit the top 5, a change from the A/C rock and R&B that dominated the early '80s charts. In March 2003, "In Da Club" hit the charts, suddenly erasing the relevance of by then dated early '00s things like nu metal and pop like JLo and Jessica Simpson.

Yeah the big change seems occur around that time in most decades (around the "3" year or so).

Yeah, the March '03 one was more subtle, but it was still there. Looking back now, even 2002 music seemed a teeny bit dated by the end of '03.

You're right about '83 too. I think the '80s sound was definitely "in presence" (i.e. synthesizers, music videos) already by then (it started around the middle of '79, and overtook by late '81), but the '70s style had a footing until Michael Jackson took off.

What do you think of early '83 songs like "All Right" by Christopher Cross, "Maneater" by Hall and Oates or "You Are" by Lionel Richie"? Kind of "80s-ified 70s"?

Yeah, the March '03 one was more subtle, but it was still there. Looking back now, even 2002 music seemed a teeny bit dated by the end of '03.

You're right about '83 too. I think the '80s sound was definitely "in presence" (i.e. synthesizers, music videos) already by then (it started around the middle of '79, and overtook by late '81), but the '70s style had a footing until Michael Jackson took off.

What do you think of early '83 songs like "All Right" by Christopher Cross, "Maneater" by Hall and Oates or "You Are" by Lionel Richie"? Kind of "80s-ified 70s"?


I think the format to mainstream success in the early '80s was covering up dull, watered-down '70s formats (stadium rock like Foreigner, true A/C like Barbra Streisand, disco like Kool and the Gang, A/C-styled R&B like Philly Soul, Bruce Springsteen-type rock) with synthesizers and other '80s accoutrements. I think the whole bright, clean, poppy, energetic '80s style coming up was partly due to stars like Michael Jackson, but also it was due to the invasion of British new wave that started in Mar. 1983. And it really was a sudden change...the only British new wave group to break out in the charts prior to that was Human League, and suddenly they were exploding over the charts.

I think the format to mainstream success in the early '80s was covering up dull, watered-down '70s formats (stadium rock like Foreigner, true A/C like Barbra Streisand, disco like Kool and the Gang, A/C-styled R&B like Philly Soul, Bruce Springsteen-type rock) with synthesizers and other '80s accoutrements. I think the whole bright, clean, poppy, energetic '80s style coming up was partly due to stars like Michael Jackson, but also it was due to the invasion of British new wave that started in Mar. 1983. And it really was a sudden change...the only British new wave group to break out in the charts prior to that was Human League, and suddenly they were exploding over the charts.


Groups like Hall & Oates most definitely had a '70s style. Like Oates had a moustache and their haircuts were sort of '70s. And Chris Cross and J. Geils Band, forget about it...their style was way '70s. Even Olivia Newton-John, sort of.

Groups like Hall & Oates most definitely had a '70s style. Like Oates had a moustache and their haircuts were sort of '70s. And Chris Cross and J. Geils Band, forget about it...their style was way '70s. Even Olivia Newton-John, sort of.


Good points -- I think they all had some "80s" songs (some very '80s sounding, actually), but their style was extremely '70s, so their '80s-type material was more of a mask to make them seem more current, as opposed to how they actually were? Makes sense. :)

Christopher Cross' is kinda strange - I'd say his lyrics are VERY '70s, but sounds a little closer to new wave than, say, to Jim Croce.

BTW, John Oates' mustache seemed to be a popular '70s thing on guys (and, in a reduced extent, the '80s too).

Good points -- I think they all had some "80s" songs (some very '80s sounding, actually), but their style was extremely '70s, so their '80s-type material was more of a mask to make them seem more current, as opposed to how they actually were? Makes sense. :)

Christopher Cross' is kinda strange - I'd say his lyrics are VERY '70s, but sounds a little closer to new wave than, say, to Jim Croce.

BTW, John Oates' mustache seemed to be a popular '70s thing on guys (and, in a reduced extent, the '80s too).


Every guy in the '70s (including my dad, to a hilariously bad result) at least tried a moustache. I think by 1983 or so, it seemed very dated and '70s. Oates obviously got away with it since he could do whatever he wanted  :). I also think it took British musicians to come to the U.S. to popularize new wave, since U.S. musicians were still clinging to disco and '70s-style A/C R&B, pop, and arena rock.

Every guy in the '70s (including my dad, to a hilariously bad result) at least tried a moustache. I think by 1983 or so, it seemed very dated and '70s. Oates obviously got away with it since he could do whatever he wanted  :). I also think it took British musicians to come to the U.S. to popularize new wave, since U.S. musicians were still clinging to disco and '70s-style A/C R&B, pop, and arena rock.


Yeah, it was often the same kind too - straight across, thick haired and no other facial hair to go with it (my dad had one around then too in about '76 - it was shocking to see that picture, lol). ;)

Anyway, Britian seems a little more receptive to new music - that's where the Stray Cats got their record deal after they were ignored in the states originally. Although MJ's success (as well as MTV) might've made it a little easier for them to break through.

What's the earliest you think Culture Club-type pop could've broken through? I'd say 1979, although maybe not as big.

Yeah, it was often the same kind too - straight across, thick haired and no other facial hair to go with it (my dad had one around then too in about '76 - it was shocking to see that picture, lol). ;)

Anyway, Britian seems a little more receptive to new music - that's where the Stray Cats got their record deal after they were ignored in the states originally. Although MJ's success (as well as MTV) might've made it a little easier for them to break through.

What's the earliest you think Culture Club-type pop could've broken through? I'd say 1979, although maybe not as big.


Maybe 1979. Not as big, though...it would've been offensive for the grunge-y/funky '70s. I think they could've had a few hits, though.  I'm just listening to Hall & Oates now, and for example, I'll analyze "Private Eyes." Overall, the song sounds '80s (albeit early '80s, with the more primitive synthesizers), but the piano and that "high male vocal" sound they use sounds like it could've come from the late '70s, though the package is '80s.

Maybe 1979. Not as big, though...it would've been offensive for the grunge-y/funky '70s. I think they could've had a few hits, though.  I'm just listening to Hall & Oates now, and for example, I'll analyze "Private Eyes." Overall, the song sounds '80s (albeit early '80s, with the more primitive synthesizers), but the piano and that "high male vocal" sound they use sounds like it could've come from the late '70s, though the package is '80s.


Yeah, that's sort of its own little era, the "early MTV years" of, say mid 1981 to early '83. It sounds more '80s, but I can hear some '70s elements too - the music video is also one of those early, studio-creation types. That also seems late '70s-ish.

I don't know if the song uses any syntesizers, but another "subtly '80s with leftover 70s" song to me is "Start me Up" by the Rolling Stones (that also has a similar, very early music video).

I just have one question? Where do you get these dates from?  1983 was a good year, but why March? :)

Yeah, that's sort of its own little era, the "early MTV years" of, say mid 1981 to early '83. It sounds more '80s, but I can hear some '70s elements too - the music video is also one of those early, studio-creation types. That also seems late '70s-ish.

I don't know if the song uses any syntesizers, but another "subtly '80s with leftover 70s" song to me is "Start me Up" by the Rolling Stones (that also has a similar, very early music video).


I think Hall and Oates are the definitive "early '80s band." Their style is, being '70s with some more pared-down '80s elements. Their music is, having that "tight, almost minimalistic pop sound." The mid-'80s had alot brighter, more sparkling production and most '70s songs have this very overproduced, dramatic sound to them which songs like "Kiss On My List", "Physical", "Love is a Battlefield", or "Jesse's Girl" lacked. Part of it was the tinny synthesizers, and part of it was the general song construction-very tight, but very poppy, and always with some electric guitar or piano elements to balance out the tinny synths. Like they're '80s-styled but not that a-ha style synthpop of the mid-'80s. That's what alot of the early '80s was, A/C pop-rock with that synth-y '80s style.

My Billboard Chart book. The week of Mar. 5, 1983 was immensely changeful...suddenly, Culture Club and Duran Duran, along with MJ, rose to the top out of nowhere.

I think Hall and Oates are the definitive "early '80s band." Their style is, being '70s with some more pared-down '80s elements. Their music is, having that "tight, almost minimalistic pop sound." The mid-'80s had alot brighter, more sparkling production and most '70s songs have this very overproduced, dramatic sound to them which songs like "Kiss On My List", "Physical", "Love is a Battlefield", or "Jesse's Girl" lacked. Part of it was the tinny synthesizers, and part of it was the general song construction-very tight, but very poppy, and always with some electric guitar or piano elements to balance out the tinny synths. Like they're '80s-styled but not that a-ha style synthpop of the mid-'80s. That's what alot of the early '80s was, A/C pop-rock with that synth-y '80s style.

My Billboard Chart book. The week of Mar. 5, 1983 was immensely changeful...suddenly, Culture Club and Duran Duran, along with MJ, rose to the top out of nowhere.


What do people think of my analysis of early '80s music?

What do people think of my analysis of early '80s music?


I agree, and have, in slight variations, thought the same things myself - now that I think about it, the '70s probably was a little more "dramatic" than the '80s were. The "early MTV era" seemed to have alot of concise, sharp 3-minute pop songs (i.e. "We Got the Beat"). A song like "Private Eyes" fits into there pretty well, imo.

What would you call something like "Young Turks" by Rod Stewart? Interestingly, I think alot of the veteran artists made some of the most "80s" sounding music of all time (aside from stuff like Culture Club, Duran Duran and MJ)?

I agree, and have, in slight variations, thought the same things myself - now that I think about it, the '70s probably was a little more "dramatic" than the '80s were. The "early MTV era" seemed to have alot of concise, sharp 3-minute pop songs (i.e. "We Got the Beat"). A song like "Private Eyes" fits into there pretty well, imo.

What would you call something like "Young Turks" by Rod Stewart? Interestingly, I think alot of the veteran artists made some of the most "80s" sounding music of all time (aside from stuff like Culture Club, Duran Duran and MJ)?


I think the early '80s, particularly, were quite non-dramatic. The whole British new wave/Madonna/Cyndi Lauper/Prince thing destroyed that with a new kind of flashiness, but the '70s had a very melodramatic, "extended play" thing going on.  Like 10-minute prog rock songs with guitar solos and extended play disco tracks. The early '80s almost responded by being a little subdued and dull, if interesting, in mainstream American music.

Yeah, I agree, veterans like Lionel Richie, Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel, Peter Cetera who were big in the '70s too did seem to make some of the absolutely most '80s music of all time.

By the way, how '80s do you think Madonna and Prince are? I think Madonna's first two albums, from 1983 and 1984, are her most '80s sounding. Her 1986 and 1989 albums sound less '80s, but are still obviously '80s. Prince is very, very ahead of his time...he was more influential than going with his flow. Some of his songs from 1982's 1999 sound like they could've been from the early '90s, though 1980's Dirty Mind, his new wave-influenced electrofunk CD, sounds quite early '80s.

By the way, how '80s do you think Madonna and Prince are? I think Madonna's first two albums, from 1983 and 1984, are her most '80s sounding. Her 1986 and 1989 albums sound less '80s, but are still obviously '80s. Prince is very, very ahead of his time...he was more influential than going with his flow. Some of his songs from 1982's 1999 sound like they could've been from the early '90s, though 1980's Dirty Mind, his new wave-influenced electrofunk CD, sounds quite early '80s.


Yeah, Madonna's "Lucky Star" is smack dab '80s. Hell, I'd even argue teeny bits of the Like A Virgin album point to the more "mature" turn she'd take in the "Like a Prayer" era (i.e. her first real ballad, "Love Don't Live Here Anymore").

The '80s were very futuristic minded, and it shows in some of the music (which sounds more futuristic than today's does actually). I agree about Prince's 1999, especially the stuff following the three hits. I haven't listened to the B side in ages, but that stuff may have been a little too ahead of its time to become commercial in 1983. I guess Purple Rain is sort of a continuation of the "1999 hit material", but his next album was very interesting - Around the World in a Day. Most of it (aside from the big hit "Raspberry Beret") I couldn't get into, but now I think of it as almost futuristic psychedelia.

Yeah, Madonna's "Lucky Star" is smack dab '80s. Hell, I'd even argue teeny bits of the Like A Virgin album point to the more "mature" turn she'd take in the "Like a Prayer" era (i.e. her first real ballad, "Love Don't Live Here Anymore").

The '80s were very futuristic minded, and it shows in some of the music (which sounds more futuristic than today's does actually). I agree about Prince's 1999, especially the stuff following the three hits. I haven't listened to the B side in ages, but that stuff may have been a little too ahead of its time to become commercial in 1983. I guess Purple Rain is sort of a continuation of the "1999 hit material", but his next album was very interesting - Around the World in a Day. Most of it (aside from the big hit "Raspberry Beret") I couldn't get into, but now I think of it as almost futuristic psychedelia.


I think "Lucky Star" is usually credited, along with "Billie Jean", as being one of the songs that re-popularized dance music in the mid-'80s, creating dance-pop. The early '80s, because of the disco backlash, had very little real dance music-it was mostly pop-rock. There are a few '80s sounding songs on 1999, like "Something In the Water Does Not Compute" or "International Lover" (you can probably tell what they are from the titles), but a song like "Little Red Corvette" would be more at home with late '80s power-pop and "Let's Pretend We're Married" seems like it could have been released in 1990.

I agree about Like a Virgin. Some pieces of it, like "Love Don't Live Here Anymore", sound more like the 1986 stuff such as "Live to Tell."

I think Hall and Oates are the definitive "early '80s band." Their style is, being '70s with some more pared-down '80s elements. Their music is, having that "tight, almost minimalistic pop sound." The mid-'80s had alot brighter, more sparkling production and most '70s songs have this very overproduced, dramatic sound to them which songs like "Kiss On My List", "Physical", "Love is a Battlefield", or "Jesse's Girl" lacked. Part of it was the tinny synthesizers, and part of it was the general song construction-very tight, but very poppy, and always with some electric guitar or piano elements to balance out the tinny synths. Like they're '80s-styled but not that a-ha style synthpop of the mid-'80s. That's what alot of the early '80s was, A/C pop-rock with that synth-y '80s style.

My Billboard Chart book. The week of Mar. 5, 1983 was immensely changeful...suddenly, Culture Club and Duran Duran, along with MJ, rose to the top out of nowhere.


I agree with this analysis. Most production in the 70s, especially the late 70s was the 'overproduced, orchestrated" sound.The result was brilliant in some songs, and tiring in others. Has anyone heard the Spinners' 'Could it be I'm falling in love'? That song is a very good example of the heavily orchestrated production of the 70s, but it's one of my favourite  songs from that decade. Hall and Oates though were great at what they did, overproduced or not-geniuses in their own time, that's why they had so many hits.These days, I've been  listening to 'kiss on my list' 'private eyes' and 'one on one' on repeat.They definitely define early 80s.Their sound is unmistakable.

What do people think of my analysis of early '80s music?


No offence to you but I think you are analysing things that aren't there - the classic English Literature syndrome.

I think the joy of looking back is the past experiences that people had back in those times, the games you played, the friends you made, the music you listened to, the clothes you wore, the telly you watched and the events that influenced/shaped your life.

Nostalgia isn't a science, it's a personal feeling.  :)

Both are comparable as change months. What dominated the Billboard Charts before the week of March 5, 1983 was stuff like James Austin and Patty Ingram. Suddenly, on March 5, 1983, "Billie Jean" hit #1 and songs by Culture Club and Duran Duran hit the top 5, a change from the A/C rock and R&B that dominated the early '80s charts. In March 2003, "In Da Club" hit the charts, suddenly erasing the relevance of by then dated early '00s things like nu metal and pop like JLo and Jessica Simpson.

The cycle will repeat itself twice more and on March 5, 2043, Armageddon will come and the world will end. Tim LaHaye told me so on the Ides of March, 1983.
:D