I'd say 2004 or 2005 is when "Cheer Up, Emo Kid", "Emo F*g", etc. entered the lexicon, even if Emo music has been popular since about 2002.

It really seemed to have took over much of alternative rock in 2005, and you started hearing to word everywhere. The word emo definitely wasn't as common in 2002, I actually though of the music as just punk back then.

It really seemed to have took over much of alternative rock in 2005, and you started hearing to word everywhere. The word emo definitely wasn't as common in 2002, I actually though of the music as just punk back then.


Yeah me too. It seemed like a logical answer to Lit or Blink 182.  It wasn't until 2005 that emo really became a widely used word, outside of musical circles.

I'd also say '05 or maybe the end of '04.

BTW, the first time I heard the term was, I believe, in late '01 or early '02, in a Rolling Stone article talking about the current direction of music (I was misled on exactly what it sounded like, though -- I thought since emo is short for emotional, it'd mean sappy ballads - I wish it was that instead of what it really is, LOL). Until mid '04 or so, I think it was basically just viewed as a more refined, whinier version of pop/punk.

Interestingly, pop/punk itself, seems to have quietly disappeared (i.e. the Simple Plan/Good Charlotte stuff).

Interestingly, pop/punk itself, seems to have quietly disappeared (i.e. the Simple Plan/Good Charlotte stuff).


Good.  ;D

Of course, now we have Hawthorne Heights. I'd rather have queerness be cool than have being dumped be cool  ;D


I hope it all disappears, I'm so sick of those All American Rejects whiny losers and their dirty little secret, lol.

Their dirty secret - they SUCK!  ;D


Very true  ;D. That song seriously makes me want to vomit, lol.

Their dirty secret - they SUCK!  ;D


;D

Isn't that the truth? What gets me is, based on all I've seen, many of those pop/punker dudes actually seem like cool guys to hang out with, and make somewhat decent videos, but their music is so repetive and stupid - at the most, there's 2-3 catchy songs on 18 soundalike song CD's.

Well part of being emo is loving the '80s it seems. You gotta respect that :)


So would you be emo then? lol.  ;D

Well part of being emo is loving the '80s it seems. You gotta respect that :)


Definitely. In fact, the pop/punk band members all seemed to have an affinity for the '80s (most of the guys are around my age, or a few years older - I'd guess they're mostly 1975-80 born), which is one reason I always tried to get into it, even if all the soundalike songs got on my nerves. ;D

Definitely. In fact, the pop/punk band members all seemed to have an affinity for the '80s (most of the guys are around my age, or a few years older - I'd guess they're mostly 1975-80 born), which is one reason I always tried to get into it, even if all the soundalike songs got on my nerves. ;D


A lot of the rappers are too. 50 Cent is a gen xer, so is Lil' Jon (King of Crunk).

;D

If you're a '00s musician, you probably spent your little kid years in the '80s. Which explains some of the retro :)


Yeah, makes sense because they do tend to focus on the more "kid-centered cool" stuff of the '80s - I forget which band, but one of them mentioned something from The Goonies in one of their songs.

Purely timewise, I guess it fits with '80s musicians being kids in the '50s and '60s (the average pop star age back then was more like 30), even if the '60s were super uncool in, say 1983 or 1986.

I guess part of the reason emo embraces neo-'80s too is that most emo kids are born between about 1986 and 1992, and thus have some curiosity about the '80s, for instance the "Babies of the '80s" thing is very emo-ish.


Yea that's true. I know a lot people that are interested in the '80s and are within that age apan.

The beats of Crunk are actually a lot like synth pop beats, for instance in their use of synth stabs and handclaps.


There are similarities.

Would you say your typical emo kid is late '80s, early '90s born?


Yes late '80s-early '90s probably.

I think 1987 is a tad early ... when I think of an emo kid I think of someone born in say 1989 or 1991.


Yea true most of them are a few years younger than me.

Even though most emo kids are around my age, I almost feel like it's beyond my time, oddly.


Well not everybody's into it, if you're not into it really then it's not a surprise you feel that way.

Even though most emo kids are around my age, I almost feel like it's beyond my time, oddly.


I felt that way (still kinda do) with grunge kids. The typical Grunger is probably 1978 born (although 1976-83 or so is probably the entire span) and, although they were around 14 when I was 10 or 11, I still felt it was a teeny bit beyond me.

True. I think of 1999-2003 as being "my time" as far as music goes. That's not saying it's my favorite era of music, it's just what I identify as "home" most.


Yea my time is actually about the same, centering around the early '00s. I didn't wake up completely to music until 2001, when I really started listen to a lot of stuff. 2004 was still cool as well so was 2005, but the early '00s were so much better to me.

Yeah, that's kinda weird huh? Grunge is considered a Gen X thing, but it's really more a Gen X/Y fringe thing like Britpop.  Full-fledged Gen X is hair metal and new wave; full-fledged Y is emo and nu metal.


I always wondered why Grunge was viewed as so Gen X. While things have laxed a bit today probably, I'm sure at the time in 1992, not many 1965ers (beginning Gen Xers) would've thought even a 1978er was in the same span as them. They probably, along with many others, would've said the late '70s babies were totally Gen Y.

Perhaps it's because the band members themselves were Xers (i.e. Kurt was a '67er), even if there's an obvious irony of them being around the same age as people who would hate that kind of music/lifestyle, because it erased "their" stuff (i.e. Hair Metal).

It's certainly not a Gen Y thing the way Limp Bizkit or Good Charlotte is, but it's not truly Gen X.  However, early Gen Y is culturally similar to Gen X (actually, even late Gen Y is similar to X in some ways), and in the early 1990s the oldest Yers born in the early '80s were still pretty much little kids, so like people sort of assume anyone under about 25 today is part of Gen Y, they probably assumed anyone born between 1965 and 1992 was Gen X in the early '90s, since Gen Y had no culture yet.


I agree.

Perhaps people in '91 didn't think about what it was gonna be like a few years down the road, or they thought about grunge: "Oh, this'll be totally outdated by 1995 or 1997, then it'll be the next generation's stuff". While in a way, that sentiment was right (the bands themselves were basically dead by then), they probably didn't anticipate its general influence would still be around in 2006. ;)

Or, they were of the (silly, uneducated) thought that no one under 12 would be into current music, and that a typical Nirvana fan was more like an 18 year old 1974er or something (whom would be almost still a full fledged Xer)?

Uh.. hasn't the whole point of this site's past 3 weeks of discussion been that EMO ISN'T a definitive term?

It's used too broadly to be accurately placed.

I think the typical true emo kid is like born in 1988 or 1989, maybe to about 1991. 1988 and 1989 seem to be the most emo years. After 1992 or so the number of people rapidly fall out...For some reason, I never associate us 1989-1990ers with being all that emo, the late 1987-mid 1989ers are the culprits and to a lesser degree those after us.

I was actually just thinking lately about what the peak "grunge" '90s people are, and I concluded that it's about 1978-born or so. The absolute peak '90s teenagers are probably born about late 1976-mid 1979 or so. Somebody who came of age around 1994 and got into Kurt and Eddie and the gang when they were about in eighth grade in 1991-1992. I think the absolute typical current entertainer is sort of a late Xer/early Yer, born from about 1977 to maybe 1982, and was a '90s teen.

Yes, I always wondered exactly the relation between things as opposite as hair metal, new wave, and grunge/indie rock within Gen X, and that there are some Gen Xers born in the mid-'60s who have no relation to the totally cynical, pierced Lollapalooza Gen Xer born in the last half of the '70s or so. I actually have a theory as to it. There was always an outsized amount of cynicism and disillusionment among Gen X that contrasted with their teen culture, a sense of "whatever" and a sense of anger at American society that came from being at the bottom of the heap in the Reaganite '80s and having missed out on both the '60s/'70s, worshipped by the yuppie class at the time, and resentful of the '80s corporate yuppie class. Alot of fairly aimless Gen Xers went to college in the mid-late '80s and were "converted" as they grew older from new wave teenagers into alt rock young adults. Colleges in the late '80s were a very important breeding ground for the '90s sort of Gen X, as older Gen Xers let their resentment and distaste of the mainstream be discovered and roll through the '90s.  That's how somebody like my English teacher, born about 1967, turned from a Squeeze-fan teen into a Pavement-loving young adult.

I remember there was an episode of Sex and the City, probably made about 1999, where Carrie dated a guy who was born about 1977, and they referred to him as Gen Y. I think alot of older Gen Xers, bratpack types like they probably are, wouldn't want to see a 1979er included as Gen X...they're very defensive of that label.

I think of the typical hipster (or Bright Eyes listening, emo hipster) as being born around 1986-1988, and the typical emo kid as being born more 1988-1991 or so.

And as for when emo became a defined term in the mainstream? I first heard all the "cheer up, emo kid" stuff in late 2003.

I think most of the EMO kids were born in 1989-1992, early 1993 at the very latest. I'm convinced the hipsters don't exist at this point, they're just a scapegoat for everyone on this forum's hatred. They're essentially just a few of the more pretentious EMO kids.

I think most of the EMO kids were born in 1989-1992, early 1993 at the very latest. I'm convinced the hipsters don't exist at this point, they're just a scapegoat for everyone on this forum's hatred. They're essentially just a few of the more pretentious EMO kids.


Hipsters definitely exist...though it tends to be sort of an "I'm 22 and live in Williamsburg" thing...like at this point I'd say the average Williamsburg-type hipster is born about 1980-1985 or so. Also, it's sort of a regional thing, there's more hipster teens in regions with access to hipster things (large cities like NYC, Philly, Boston, etc...particularly the NYC suburbs.) I think the emos were largely born 1988-1992, I roughly agree...about late 1987 at the earliest, and maybe the average age is about 16 now. The last true emos seem to be about in 8th grade.

The last of the EMOs are now entering 9th grade, some are finishing 8th. The oldest and purest of the EMOs are presently verging on 20-22.

From you have their, hipsters are really just more college kids and young adults (I don't mean teens, I mean people who are really entering adulthood) ... one of those "finding your place in a new world" things, in this case, the adult world. They're still trying to cling to those childhood interests (that's why most other EMO fans are about 3-10 years younger then them), while projecting an air of maturity, which often comes out as superiority by accident.

The last of the EMOs are now entering 9th grade, some are finishing 8th. The oldest and purest of the EMOs are presently verging on 20-22.

From you have their, hipsters are really just more college kids and young adults (I don't mean teens, I mean people who are really entering adulthood) ... one of those "finding your place in a new world" things, in this case, the adult world. They're still trying to cling to those childhood interests (that's why most other EMO fans are about 3-10 years younger then them), while projecting an air of maturity, which often comes out as superiority by accident.


Your typical EMO kid is born about 1986 to 1992. 1993-1995 is the last tribe of Gen Y; they're sort of their own people.

Your typical EMO kid is born about 1986 to 1992. 1993-1995 is the last tribe of Gen Y; they're sort of their own people.


Yeah, I agree. The average year of birth is probably about 1988-1989, and there are emo kids born around 1985-1986 who liked that sort of music, there just aren't as many of them. Late '92-Mid '95, the last of Gen Y, are their own subset, with affections like classic rock.

Yeah, I agree. The average year of birth is probably about 1988-1989, and there are emo kids born around 1985-1986 who liked that sort of music, there just aren't as many of them. Late '92-Mid '95, the last of Gen Y, are their own subset, with affections like classic rock.


Yeah. You know, when you said 1990ers aren't into emo at first I though you just didn't want to be associated with emo, but it's kind of true.  You don't seem to hear about 16-year-old emo kids.

Yeah. You know, when you said 1990ers aren't into emo at first I though you just didn't want to be associated with emo, but it's kind of true.  You don't seem to hear about 16-year-old emo kids.


Uh... no? 16-year olds are the majority of the EMOs. Mid-teenagers are the largest percentage of EMOs. Again, don't lump "hipster", "indie", and all those other terms in with "EMO". I'm talking the EMO purists and possibly the Hot Topic EMOs. 13-16 is their general range. Older is usually something like the hipsters velvetoneo talks about.

Uh... no? 16-year olds are the majority of the EMOs. Mid-teenagers are the largest percentage of EMOs. Again, don't lump "hipster", "indie", and all those other terms in with "EMO". I'm talking the EMO purists and possibly the Hot Topic EMOs. 13-16 is their general range. Older is usually something like the hipsters velvetoneo talks about.


So EMO is more early '90s kids, and hipster more late '80s?

So EMO is more early '90s kids, and hipster more late '80s?


Emo is more early '90s, and late '80s were more into nu metal or are hipsters I guess.

Emo is more early '90s, and late '80s were more into nu metal or are hipsters I guess.


I consider myself more a part of the early '00s generation, because my brother was born in 1988.  The mid '00s seem kind of after my time.

So EMO is more early '90s kids, and hipster more late '80s?


EMO is our generation... hipster is about halfway between ours and our parents.

EMO is our generation... hipster is about halfway between ours and our parents.


But they're more like us than the freaking boomers, you've got to admit.

But they're more like us than the freaking boomers, you've got to admit.


Very much true, yes.

Yeah. You know, when you said 1990ers aren't into emo at first I though you just didn't want to be associated with emo, but it's kind of true.  You don't seem to hear about 16-year-old emo kids.


Yeah, I don't know why, but there are like 2-4 emo kids in my grade and none severely, as opposed to like 15 in the 1988-1989 grade above me and just as many, arguably, in the grade above that. I think the average age of an emo person is probably about 16 now, but for some reason there are alot less born in 1989-1990 (again, this probably just applies to my school.)

The real forerunners of emo are like born in 1985-1986, but there are more "indiemos" who are that age...just ask somebody born about 1985-1986, there are plenty of "indiemo"/pretentious emos born around then and a fair number of emos. There are probably more each year until it peaks in 1988-1989, then it sort of slowly declines, falling out after the 1991-1992 year.

Most of the late '80s kids in my school (I consider myself more part of the last of the late '80s generation, at least peripherally, because my year is 1989-1990), were never that into nu metal. They seem to like indiemo and stuff like the Strokes and Franz Ferdinand alot.

The Strokes and Franz Ferdinand are not Indieemo. Indieemo is Death Cab For Cutie, Bright Eyes, etc. The Strokes and Franz Ferdinand are Pop Rock/Modern Rock.

The Strokes and Franz Ferdinand are not Indieemo. Indieemo is Death Cab For Cutie, Bright Eyes, etc. The Strokes and Franz Ferdinand are Pop Rock/Modern Rock.


Of anything, Franz Ferdinand would be Eighties revivalist, which isn't quite emo but is related.

The Strokes and Franz Ferdinand are not Indieemo. Indieemo is Death Cab For Cutie, Bright Eyes, etc. The Strokes and Franz Ferdinand are Pop Rock/Modern Rock.


I said AND stuff like the Strokes and Franz Ferdinand.

I said AND stuff like the Strokes and Franz Ferdinand.


Ah, I missed the "and". My bizzle.

*bad

I think the typical true emo kid is like born in 1988 or 1989, maybe to about 1991. 1988 and 1989 seem to be the most emo years. After 1992 or so the number of people rapidly fall out...For some reason, I never associate us 1989-1990ers with being all that emo, the late 1987-mid 1989ers are the culprits and to a lesser degree those after us.

I was actually just thinking lately about what the peak "grunge" '90s people are, and I concluded that it's about 1978-born or so. The absolute peak '90s teenagers are probably born about late 1976-mid 1979 or so. Somebody who came of age around 1994 and got into Kurt and Eddie and the gang when they were about in eighth grade in 1991-1992. I think the absolute typical current entertainer is sort of a late Xer/early Yer, born from about 1977 to maybe 1982, and was a '90s teen.

Yes, I always wondered exactly the relation between things as opposite as hair metal, new wave, and grunge/indie rock within Gen X, and that there are some Gen Xers born in the mid-'60s who have no relation to the totally cynical, pierced Lollapalooza Gen Xer born in the last half of the '70s or so. I actually have a theory as to it. There was always an outsized amount of cynicism and disillusionment among Gen X that contrasted with their teen culture, a sense of "whatever" and a sense of anger at American society that came from being at the bottom of the heap in the Reaganite '80s and having missed out on both the '60s/'70s, worshipped by the yuppie class at the time, and resentful of the '80s corporate yuppie class. Alot of fairly aimless Gen Xers went to college in the mid-late '80s and were "converted" as they grew older from new wave teenagers into alt rock young adults. Colleges in the late '80s were a very important breeding ground for the '90s sort of Gen X, as older Gen Xers let their resentment and distaste of the mainstream be discovered and roll through the '90s.  That's how somebody like my English teacher, born about 1967, turned from a Squeeze-fan teen into a Pavement-loving young adult.

I remember there was an episode of Sex and the City, probably made about 1999, where Carrie dated a guy who was born about 1977, and they referred to him as Gen Y. I think alot of older Gen Xers, bratpack types like they probably are, wouldn't want to see a 1979er included as Gen X...they're very defensive of that label.

I think of the typical hipster (or Bright Eyes listening, emo hipster) as being born around 1986-1988, and the typical emo kid as being born more 1988-1991 or so.

And as for when emo became a defined term in the mainstream? I first heard all the "cheer up, emo kid" stuff in late 2003.



Interesting, and I've gotta agree. You're saying a typical Xer/Brat Packers (i.e. 1968ish born), despite probably loving the pop culture of the mid '80s, at the same time, was kinda p*ssed that they were overshadowed by the typical Yuppie/Baby Boomer born, say, around 1950-55, who were teens inthe '60s and earlier '70s?

Perhaps that afforementioned "anger" is why they (some of them, at least) were turned on to Grunge in the '90s, starting when they were 23-25 or so. It's weird, but I sometimes have to remind myself that the Brat Pack teens of the '80s and the coffeehouse/90210-type young adult 20-somethings of, say 1991-94/95 aren't different people - indeed they're the same. ;)

Also, maybe they were turned onto the college rock of the late '80s (Sonic Youth, Jane's Addiction, even some GNR, whom are like an angrier, louder and stripped down hair metal) which kinda served as a transition from their '80s to their '90s musical and fashion taste/world views?

BTW, this can really go two ways - I know there's a decent amount of Brat Packers who tend to not like much of anything after 1991, even 1986/87 to a reduced extent, and whom are kinda "stuck" in the '80s (though there's nothing wrong with that :) ). I feel its those people who tend to be "overprotective" of the '80s and think that unless you were at least 15 at the time, you have Zero '80s credit. THEY would tend to scoff at the idea of a 1977er being Gen X.

Interesting, and I've gotta agree. You're saying a typical Xer/Brat Packers (i.e. 1968ish born), despite probably loving the pop culture of the mid '80s, at the same time, was kinda p*ssed that they were overshadowed by the typical Yuppie/Baby Boomer born, say, around 1950-55, who were teens inthe '60s and earlier '70s?

Perhaps that afforementioned "anger" is why they (some of them, at least) were turned on to Grunge in the '90s, starting when they were 23-25 or so. It's weird, but I sometimes have to remind myself that the Brat Pack teens of the '80s and the coffeehouse/90210-type young adult 20-somethings of, say 1991-94/95 aren't different people - indeed they're the same. ;)

Also, maybe they were turned onto the college rock of the late '80s (Sonic Youth, Jane's Addiction, even some GNR, whom are like an angrier, louder and stripped down hair metal) which kinda served as a transition from their '80s to their '90s musical and fashion taste/world views?

BTW, this can really go two ways - I know there's a decent amount of Brat Packers who tend to not like much of anything after 1991, even 1986/87 to a reduced extent, and whom are kinda "stuck" in the '80s (though there's nothing wrong with that :) ). I feel its those people who tend to be "overprotective" of the '80s and think that unless you were at least 15 at the time, you have Zero '80s credit. THEY would tend to scoff at the idea of a 1977er being Gen X.


The Gen Yers born in the '80s and early '90s seem to scoff at mid '90s kids being Gen Y in a similar way, would you say?

Yeah, I don't know why, but there are like 2-4 emo kids in my grade and none severely, as opposed to like 15 in the 1988-1989 grade above me and just as many, arguably, in the grade above that. I think the average age of an emo person is probably about 16 now, but for some reason there are alot less born in 1989-1990 (again, this probably just applies to my school.)

The real forerunners of emo are like born in 1985-1986, but there are more "indiemos" who are that age...just ask somebody born about 1985-1986, there are plenty of "indiemo"/pretentious emos born around then and a fair number of emos. There are probably more each year until it peaks in 1988-1989, then it sort of slowly declines, falling out after the 1991-1992 year.

Most of the late '80s kids in my school (I consider myself more part of the last of the late '80s generation, at least peripherally, because my year is 1989-1990), were never that into nu metal. They seem to like indiemo and stuff like the Strokes and Franz Ferdinand alot.


Most of the emo kids when I was in school were generally sophomores or freshman, my nephew says theres a lot of them in his middle school as well. There were not many emos in my senior class really. Most people I know were big into nu metal, because I remember how big Linkin Park was in my freshman class 2001-2002.

The Gen Yers born in the '80s and early '90s seem to scoff at mid '90s kids being Gen Y in a similar way, would you say?


Yeah, it seems that way. I tend to actually notice ALOT of resentment from the very early Yers/late Xers around my age (i.e. 1980-83 born). If we're to define someone's generation based solely on their age and not personal tastes, I'd say it peaks around 14. So even I would be a teeny bit too young to be a "typical" Grunger (as I was still pretty much a kid then) and a teeny bit too old to be a Boy Band/1999ish person, as I was already 17. I guess me and my fellow 1981/82ers would be "Macarenians"? ;D

But anyway, I've heard 1982ers saying 1987ers shouldn't be part of the Grunge/peak '90s generation, and I've heard 1987ers say that about mid '90s kids. For instance (and it's so weird to think of a typical 12-year old chick fan of NSync in '99 this seniority way), I wouldn't be surprised if 1987ers and 1988ers become very "protective" of 1999 the same way Brat Packers are protective of 1984 - to them, a 1994er would just be some little kid who couldn't have remembered Hanson. ;)

There are tons of Emo kids at my school.  There's so many they've somehow meshed in with the "cool kids" to the point where about half of the Emo kids and cool kids freely associate with each other and where preppy girls like Hawthorne Heights and crap.  Hell, a favorite pasttime around here is for the popular crowd to go watch crappy local "screamo" bands perform.  Of course, a lot of the popular kids will still bash Emo kids, not realizing that half their favorite bands are Emo and that they're friends with Emo kids (even if they're "cool" Emo kids).  About 40% of my school is Emo is some way.  The rest is Punks (which are the rivals of Emos) and the other stereotypical cliques.

I'm wondering if anyone else's school is like this, where there's so many Emo kids that they've molded together with the preppy crowd?  Or is my school just weird?