I'd say nowadays in heavy numbers there's the...

Preppies.
"Style editor" crowd.
Nu metalheads, goths, and metalheads (now in way smaller numbers since the '90s).
Indie-emo/hipster crowd (divided into teen emo and more, erm, adult hipsters).
Glam rap crowd (not necessarily confined to minorities)

Dead '90s groups:

Neo-hippies (Phish fans, basically)
Grunge people
Goths and "sk8ers" (probably died in 2003 or 2004)
The '90s sort of hipster
Alternative metalhead

When I was at school (so many moons ago) heres pretty much the way things were. We are talking major stereotypes here:

- Wiggers/Bogans/Chavs (people who drive around in suped-up cars, listen to 50 cent, wear baggy pants etc)
- Indie kids (people who listen to indie music only, are sometimes in a band, go to tons of gigs, wear second hand clothes etc)
- Metalheads (people who listen to metal (obviously), wear lots of black, are into cars etc)
- Sports geeks (people who... like sport... apparently)
- Geeks (people who are smart, into computers, ahead in technology etc)
- Trendies/Popular crowd (Into the latest stuff, only likes what is on radio/tv etc)
- Neo-Hippies (still relevant in NZ... people who take drugs, usually vegetarian, listen to classic rock more than new rock, support "green" issues etc. often student activists)
- Straight-Edgers (people against drugs, alcohol etc, listen to indie, ...similar to "Indie Kids")
- Ravers (people who regularly attend raves and dance parties, and often experience with hard drugs, especially ecstasy)
- Punks (people who listen to punk music, bag anything that isn't alternative, wear odd clothing etc)
- Cool People (people who don't fit into any of the above stereotypes)

When I was at school (so many moons ago) heres pretty much the way things were. We are talking major stereotypes here:

- Wiggers/Bogans/Chavs (people who drive around in suped-up cars, listen to 50 cent, wear baggy pants etc)
- Indie kids (people who listen to indie music only, are sometimes in a band, go to tons of gigs, wear second hand clothes etc)
- Metalheads (people who listen to metal (obviously), wear lots of black, are into cars etc)
- Sports geeks (people who... like sport... apparently)
- Geeks (people who are smart, into computers, ahead in technology etc)
- Trendies/Popular crowd (Into the latest stuff, only likes what is on radio/tv etc)
- Neo-Hippies (still relevant in NZ... people who take drugs, usually vegetarian, listen to classic rock more than new rock, support "green" issues etc. often student activists)
- Straight-Edgers (people against drugs, alcohol etc, listen to indie, ...similar to "Indie Kids")
- Ravers (people who regularly attend raves and dance parties, and often experience with hard drugs, especially ecstasy)
- Punks (people who listen to punk music, bag anything that isn't alternative, wear odd clothing etc)
- Cool People (people who don't fit into any of the above stereotypes)


I think the last of our real "neo-hippies" graduated high school in 2004, or so...they listened to Phish, Weezer, They Might Be Giants, etc.

I don't think you can really divide people between 'scenesters' (people who are slaves to a 'scene', usually music), and non-scenesters, as everyone has some degree of built in conformity to some degree. Anyway, I might get back to you on this topic...

I don't think you can really divide people between 'scenesters' (people who are slaves to a 'scene', usually music), and non-scenesters, as everyone has some degree of built in conformity to some degree. Anyway, I might get back to you on this topic...


I would say there're definitely certain cliques in my school/grade, some of which are music based. There's sort of the hardcore druggie group, the "indie"/hardcore group, the artsy but non-drug group, the band geeks/neo-hippies/theater crew, the teenage hipsters and emo people, the girls who make their own T-shirts group, the preppies, the jocks (for various sports), the cheerleaders, the girl jocks, the wiggers, etc.

I'd say nowadays in heavy numbers there's the...

Preppies.
"Style editor" crowd.
Nu metalheads, goths, and metalheads (now in way smaller numbers since the '90s).
Indie-emo/hipster crowd (divided into teen emo and more, erm, adult hipsters).
Glam rap crowd (not necessarily confined to minorities)

Dead '90s groups:

Neo-hippies (Phish fans, basically)
Grunge people
Goths and "sk8ers" (probably died in 2003 or 2004)
The '90s sort of hipster
Alternative metalhead


I don't think the neo-hippies have gone away.  But then again, I've spent most of the '00s in Eugene, Oregon, so maybe they have back East as Eugene is just about the hippiest place in the US in terms of number of hippies.  I'm not sure "neo-hippie" is really an accurate, as the hippies have never really gone away completely and the current hippies aren't hippies especially because of '60s nostalgia.

Goths seem like a '90s, early '00s thing.  I think they're been largely replaced by Emos.
Wiggers are still around.

I don't think the neo-hippies have gone away.  But then again, I've spent most of the '00s in Eugene, Oregon, so maybe they have back East as Eugene is just about the hippiest place in the US in terms of number of hippies.  I'm not sure "neo-hippie" is really an accurate, as the hippies have never really gone away completely and the current hippies aren't hippies especially because of '60s nostalgia.

Goths seem like a '90s, early '00s thing.  I think they're been largely replaced by Emos.
Wiggers are still around.


Hippies are very not-NYC/NJ metropolitan area. They're still around in Boston and elsewhere, though, probably...the hipsters who are ominpresent in NYC just killed 'em around here. Yeah, goths are gone, they were really a 1995-2003 sort of thing replaced by the "emo." The nu metalhead is definitely still around, but at a lower profile, and even wiggers are at a slightly lower profile since their 2001ish peak.

Hippies are very not-NYC/NJ metropolitan area. They're still around in Boston and elsewhere, though, probably...the hipsters who are ominpresent in NYC just killed 'em around here. Yeah, goths are gone, they were really a 1995-2003 sort of thing replaced by the "emo." The nu metalhead is definitely still around, but at a lower profile, and even wiggers are at a slightly lower profile since their 2001ish peak.


The thing about nu metal is that it's very fan-oriented.  Many if not most teens dislike Linkin Park, Korn, etc., or are indifferent to them, but the biggest numetal bands have very large fan bases of several million people.  Once emo emerged circa 2002, and really it's been around since about 2000, and I just didn't notice, numetal ceased to become a trendy genre, except in its most post-grungy and hip hop-y forms. 

The thing about nu metal is that it's very fan-oriented.  Many if not most teens dislike Linkin Park, Korn, etc., or are indifferent to them, but the biggest numetal bands have very large fan bases of several million people.  Once emo emerged circa 2002, and really it's been around since about 2000, and I just didn't notice, numetal ceased to become a trendy genre, except in its most post-grungy and hip hop-y forms. 


I think most people didn't notice when emo, indiemo, and Strokes-type post-punk revival emerged out of the underground starting in 2002. Like I thought the All-American Rejects, Simple Plan, and Good Charlotte were just a continuation of '90s, Blink 182 style pop-punk, and most suburban teenagers weren't aware of the latter too. Nu metal peaked in popularity, along with post-grunge, around 2001 right before real '00s stuff started to show up, and was driven by Linkin Park and System of a Down through early 2003.

Also, I was thinking, nu metal is really a transition between grunge and emo.  Early nu metal, like Korn and Tool is definitely more Grunge, whereas bands like Lacuna Coil and latter Linkin Park are more emo-ish.  The pop punk of the late '90s/early '00s is also part of this transition.

Also, I was thinking, nu metal is really a transition between grunge and emo.  Early nu metal, like Korn and Tool is definitely more Grunge, whereas bands like Lacuna Coil and latter Linkin Park are more emo-ish.  The pop punk of the late '90s/early '00s is also part of this transition.


Yeah, I agree with this. Now, I wonder in indie rock what would be considered the transition between "slacker rock" like Beck and Pavement and indiemo and post-punk/new wave revival...any thoughts? I always considered Tool more alt metal, though.

Yeah, I agree with this. Now, I wonder in indie rock what would be considered the transition between "slacker rock" like Beck and Pavement and indiemo and post-punk/new wave revival...any thoughts? I always considered Tool more alt metal, though.


Yeah, TOOL aren't really nu metal, as they predate the numetal explosion as their first album came out in like 1990 I think. 

As for the indie transition, hmmm ... do you think groups like Built to Spill, Neutral Milk Hotel, etc. would fall into this?

Yeah, TOOL aren't really nu metal, as they predate the numetal explosion as their first album came out in like 1990 I think. 

As for the indie transition, hmmm ... do you think groups like Built to Spill, Neutral Milk Hotel, etc. would fall into this?


Yeah, I think Neutral Milk Hotel along with maybe Elliott Smith and Built to Spill would fit into this. Modest Mouse and Badly Drawn Boy do, too, in alot of ways, and so even do Radiohead.

I've often heard that nu metal was a scheme (this was a popular theory around 1998-1999 by remaining grunge fans) by Tommy Mottola of Sony to make rock popular again by combining it with rap.

"Oh, he's very popular Ed. The sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, waistoids, dweebies, buttheads - they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude."
- Grace
"Ferris Bueller's Day Off"

But I prefer Groucho, "I don't want to belong to any club that would have me as member."

I have always worn "social outcast" as a badge of honor!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/04/faga4.gif

Yeah, I think Neutral Milk Hotel along with maybe Elliott Smith and Built to Spill would fit into this. Modest Mouse and Badly Drawn Boy do, too, in alot of ways, and so even do Radiohead.

I've often heard that nu metal was a scheme (this was a popular theory around 1998-1999 by remaining grunge fans) by Tommy Mottola of Sony to make rock popular again by combining it with rap.
tommy mattola is a crazy mofo he only has one singer on his new label and its lindsey lohan hes such a joke and 10 years ago he had michael jackson ,mariah carey, and destinys child now he has no one on his new label

"Oh, he's very popular Ed. The sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, waistoids, dweebies, buttheads - they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude."
- Grace
"Ferris Bueller's Day Off"

But I prefer Groucho, "I don't want to belong to any club that would have me as member."

I have always worn "social outcast" as a badge of honor!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/04/faga4.gif


Agreed...

I also think to a degree the '80s were the absolute peak of high school cliquishness.

While watching the great satrical 1980s movie Heathers, I noticed many kids in the cafeteria broken up into social groups from nerds, to jocks, to snobs, etc. It wasn't like that when I was in High School from 2000 to 2004. Nobody in the cafeteria stuck into their social groups. I saw jocks sitting with goths, goths sitting with thugs, time has changed. Heather's delivers some amazingy accurate but also hilariously exaggerated satire.

To an extent that's true...or maybe the groups have just changed. Especially if you go to a small school like mine, where there really aren't as many divisions, with 110 kids in a public high schoo class.

Some of the groups in my lunch include:

-The "scene" girls.
-The artsy/geek girls and gay guys (my table, I'm the gay guy)
-The druggie nerd boys/metalheads.
-The artsy color guard/metalhead table.
-The preppies (multiple tables)
-The unpopular jocks.
-The popular jocks (divided by grade...)
-The fashionista girls.
-The smart guys without girlfriends.
-The "indie" guys.
-The dorks and outcast nu metal fans.
-The cool, non-geeky druggies/the piercing club/the cocaine club/the "badasses."
-The bona fide nerds.
-The burnouts/high school dropout candidates.
-The female jocks.
-The "minority"/ghetto table.

These are the "groups", there are lots of normal people who aren't really any of these.

There used to be goths and nu metalheads and punks, but these have all sort of disseminated as time has gone on.

To an extent that's true...or maybe the groups have just changed. Especially if you go to a small school like mine, where there really aren't as many divisions, with 110 kids in a public high schoo class.

Some of the groups in my lunch include:

-The "scene" girls.
-The artsy/geek girls and gay guys (my table, I'm the gay guy)
-The druggie nerd boys/metalheads.
-The artsy color guard/metalhead table.
-The preppies (multiple tables)
-The unpopular jocks.
-The popular jocks (divided by grade...)
-The fashionista girls.
-The smart guys without girlfriends.
-The "indie" guys.
-The dorks and outcast nu metal fans.
-The cool, non-geeky druggies/the piercing club/the cocaine club/the "badasses."
-The bona fide nerds.
-The burnouts/high school dropout candidates.
-The female jocks.
-The "minority"/ghetto table.

These are the "groups", there are lots of normal people who aren't really any of these.

There used to be goths and nu metalheads and punks, but these have all sort of disseminated as time has gone on.


Sorry to get off topic, but what's a real gay person like?  I don't go out and about often, because I'm home-schooled, what things, for instance, are true and untrue about gays? 

Sorry to get off topic, but what's a real gay person like?  I don't go out and about often, because I'm home-schooled, what things, for instance, are true and untrue about gays? 


What do you mean by a real gay person?

What do you mean by a real gay person?


As opposed to the way they're portrayed by the media.  Is there anything about them they get wrong?  i.e. is emo really full of gays?

As opposed to the way they're portrayed by the media.  Is there anything about them they get wrong?  i.e. is emo really full of gays?


Oh God no...emo is full of effeminate straight boys. This just comes from my experience as a 16-year old gay, though. There are definitely alot more "hip gay people" who are only somewhat effeminate and listen to alt rock, though, than there were awhile ago, and some people who listen to indie rock who are gay, but they're not the full-blown Williamsburg hipsters. Like, for most gay guys who dress hipster, it's just a style, they're not real bona fide hipsters. There's a big party-boy group, there're the queeny types who look like they work at Macy's, preppie gay guys who go to the beach alot, showtune queens, punky gay guys ("severe queers" with piercings), gay nerds/gay intellectuals like myself...Like there are gay guys with emo style, but they're not emo. They probably like Tori and Belle and Sebastian, and maybe some Bright Eyes.

Oh God no...emo is full of effeminate straight boys. This just comes from my experience as a 16-year old gay, though. There are definitely alot more "hip gay people" who are only somewhat effeminate and listen to alt rock, though, than there were awhile ago, and some people who listen to indie rock who are gay, but they're not the full-blown Williamsburg gays. There's a big party-boy group, there're the queeny types who look like they work at Macy's, preppie gay guys who go to the beach alot, showtune queens, punky gay guys ("severe queers" with piercings), gay nerds/gay intellectuals like myself...Like there are gay guys with emo style, but they're not emo. They probably like Tori and Belle and Sebastian, and maybe some Bright Eyes.


So emos are basically "wannabe gays"?  ;D

I'd much rather hang out with gays than snobby emos, I like the gay community, they're very artistic and intellectual.  Unlike most straight guys, they tend to have a sense of culture.
I actually have a theory about gays; that there's two different schools of being gay.  Chris Rock said that there's black people and then there's n*ggas.  Black people are just that; regular people that happen to be African American.  A "n*gga" is an African American who acts like your stereotypical "token black", who hates book, blames the "media" for everything, etc.

It's the same with gays.  Basically, you have gay people, who are guys who act more or less like straight guys, but simply happen to be gay.  Then, you have "f*gs", which are the kinds that wear pink, talk in valley girl accents, etc.

So emos are basically "wannabe gays"?  ;D

I'd much rather hang out with gays than snobby emos, I like the gay community, they're very artistic and intellectual.  Unlike most straight guys, they tend to have a sense of culture.
I actually have a theory about gays; that there's two different schools of being gay.  Chris Rock said that there's black people and then there's n*ggas.  Black people are just that; regular people that happen to be African American.  A "n*gga" is an African American who acts like your stereotypical "token black", who hates book, blames the "media" for everything, etc.

It's the same with gays.  Basically, you have gay people, who are guys who act more or less like straight guys, but simply happen to be gay.  Then, you have "f*gs", which are the kinds that wear pink, talk in valley girl accents, etc.


Yeah, I agree with that. However, we "gay people" also embrace some more positive things fags embrace (this will just focus on some "gay" things that I like): Madonna and other explicitly gay icons like Peggy Lee and Donna Summer, Tori Amos, etc.; drag; a good sense of style; gay club dancing; and KITSCH! (like John Waters.) I'm a kitschy gay guy, if anything...though I just dress in jeans and a t-shirt and leather jacket most of the time, I love kitsch.

Yeah, I agree with that. However, we "gay people" also embrace some more positive things fags embrace (this will just focus on some "gay" things that I like): Madonna and other explicitly gay icons like Peggy Lee and Donna Summer, Tori Amos, etc.; drag; a good sense of style; gay club dancing; and KITSCH! (like John Waters.) I'm a kitschy gay guy, if anything...though I just dress in jeans and a t-shirt and leather jacket most of the time, I love kitsch.


Oh yeah.  Again, the gay community is generally, although again since we're talking about millions of people not entirely, an artistic community. And the "f*gs" are the most showingly artistic of these.  Cheese is one of better overly gay qualities.  George Michael and the Pet Shop Boys made very showingly gay music that's great.

Oh yeah.  Again, the gay community is generally, although again since we're talking about millions of people not entirely, an artistic community. And the "f*gs" are the most showingly artistic of these.  Cheese is one of better overly gay qualities.  George Michael and the Pet Shop Boys made very showingly gay music that's great.


Along with Morrissey and the Smiths, Rufus Wainwright, ABBA, the B-52s (my favorite "gay" band), and straight women like Tori Amos, Madonna, Judy Garland, Kate Bush, Liz Phair, Donna Summer who made very "gay" music.

I like Morrissey's music but I don't like him as a person. He won't admit to being gay, it's his right but it's like he's ashamed of it, and he insulted Tori.

Along with Morrissey and the Smiths, Rufus Wainwright, ABBA, the B-52s (my favorite "gay" band), and straight women like Tori Amos, Madonna, Judy Garland, Kate Bush, Liz Phair, Donna Summer who made very "gay" music.

I like Morrissey's music but I don't like him as a person. He won't admit to being gay, it's his right but it's like he's ashamed of it, and he insulted Tori.


So are the lesbians and gays part of the same community/have a similar culture, or are they different?

So are the lesbians and gays part of the same community/have a similar culture, or are they different?


Eh...it depends. It depends on the lesbian, probably...but there are so many militant, granola, feminist lesbians that are cliquish.

Eh...it depends. It depends on the lesbian, probably...but there are so many militant, granola, feminist lesbians that are cliquish.


Feminism is kind of an ironic term, since feminists are essentially against things that are womanly.  Just about anyone would agree that women deserve equal rights (or at least I'd hope so), but what the feminists really want is to destroy gender.  They don't understand that although men and woman are equal, they're also different, and that there's nothing wrong with those differences.  That's not to say that women shouldn't be able to like guy stuff, or vice versa, but there's nothing wrong with woman liking cats or gardening either.  Just like there's nothing wrong with guys liking football, or guys liking baking cookies.

Feminism is kind of an ironic term, since feminists are essentially against things that are womanly.  Just about anyone would agree that women deserve equal rights (or at least I'd hope so), but what the feminists really want is to destroy gender.  They don't understand that although men and woman are equal, they're also different, and that there's nothing wrong with those differences.  That's not to say that women shouldn't be able to like guy stuff, or vice versa, but there's nothing wrong with woman liking cats or gardening either.  Just like there's nothing wrong with guys liking football, or guys liking baking cookies.


Well, that's the "feminazis", who give the actual feminists who work for equal rights a bad name.

Well, that's the "feminazis", who give the actual feminists who work for equal rights a bad name.


;D

"Equal rights" is something everyone should support.  Those are the real feminists.  The "feminazis" are what I'd call "anti-gender activists".  They want an asexual society, where men are inferior to women and woman act like men.

;D

"Equal rights" is something everyone should support.  Those are the real feminists.  The "feminazis" are what I'd call "anti-gender activists".  They want an asexual society, where men are inferior to women and woman act like men.


So that would mean they are opposed to Gender-equality?

So that would mean they are opposed to Gender-equality?


Yeah, they think it should be the other way around. The feminazis are major hypocrites.

Yeah, they think it should be the other way around. The feminazis are major hypocrites.


I know they have different 'factions' like all groups, but do most of them geniunely hate, or even decry the male gender? Is their version of Utopia a world were there are no men, or where men are used only as slaves and concubines?

Perhaps we don't know much about this topic to be discussing in such detail. But nonetheless, from what you know...

I know they have different 'factions' like all groups, but do most of them geniunely hate, or even decry the male gender? Is their version of Utopia a world were there are no men, or where men are used only as slaves and concubines?


I have no idea. I bet a few do  ;D

In the '70s, alot of feminazis thought all heterosexual intercourse was rape, even if the women enjoyed it  ::) . Of course, Madonna lead the new school of pop cultural '80s feminism, which destroyed this.

So emos are basically "wannabe gays"?  ;D

I'd much rather hang out with gays than snobby emos, I like the gay community, they're very artistic and intellectual.  Unlike most straight guys, they tend to have a sense of culture.
I actually have a theory about gays; that there's two different schools of being gay.  Chris Rock said that there's black people and then there's n*ggas.  Black people are just that; regular people that happen to be African American.  A "n*gga" is an African American who acts like your stereotypical "token black", who hates book, blames the "media" for everything, etc.

It's the same with gays.  Basically, you have gay people, who are guys who act more or less like straight guys, but simply happen to be gay.  Then, you have "f*gs", which are the kinds that wear pink, talk in valley girl accents, etc.


I wonder to what extent many gay people deliberately act in a flamboyant, stereo-typically gay manner to fit in with that cliche? Of course some are 'naturally' like that, but for those that do, can't they be happy liking 'guy' things and also being gay? I know a few 'gay' guys were seem to me to really it on; their manner of speech, dress, body language.etc.

I wonder to what extent many gay people deliberately act in a flamboyant, stereo-typically gay manner to fit in with that cliche? Of course some are 'naturally' like that, but for those that do, can't they be happy liking 'guy' things and also being gay? I know a few 'gay' guys were seem to me to really it on; their manner of speech, dress, body language.etc.


I do it for fun sometimes.

I do it for fun sometimes.


A kind of personal question...if I met you on the street, what about you would give you away?

A kind of personal question...if I met you on the street, what about you would give you away?




My voice and way of movement. Trust me, when I go to the gayborhoods guys check me out...it's an instinct. At camp I got checked out by various older guys and several counselors (I went to camp at Yale University.)

My voice and way of movement. Trust me, when I go to the gayborhoods guys check me out...it's an instinct. At camp I got checked out by various older guys and several counselors (I went to camp at Yale University.)


Do they realise you're only 15-16? Or do you look older than your age?

Do you realise you're only 15-16? Or do you look older than your age?




No, I look about 16...16 is the legal age of consent, though.

No, I look about 16...16 is the legal age of consent, though.


You and Donnie should put your photo/voice clip up.  :)

You and Donnie should put your photo/voice clip up.  :)


I have a (bad) photo up in the photo thread :)