Although I like the '90s better, I'd say "Yes, Definitely.  They're also a campier decade."

Yeah, the '00s are very campy, in sort of an '80s-like way. And an easier decade to pigeonhole, at least for the 2002-2007 period probably, by far. The '90s definitely had some easy to pigeonhole, campy things though (grunge, the deluge of female pop singer-songwriters and alternative-styled pop, songs like "Steal My Sunshine", the blonde highlights on guys that are oh-so-1999, the Spice Girls, the triangle and squiggle early '90s era and some very campy '90s hip-hop fashion, the novelty and step songs, the popularity of cheesy techno and country, some of the fashion that's just weird, goth and new metal), but the '00s are more campy in a flamboyant, '80s way. Though the '00s are more tongue-in-cheek.

The '90s had less overt things to unify it as a decade, though on closer look alot of common threads ran through it, even up to 2001. The '80s look more unified at first than they actually were, with the big hair and weird design styles and synths and all.

Yeah, the '00s are very campy, in sort of an '80s-like way. And an easier decade to pigeonhole, at least for the 2002-2007 period probably, by far. The '90s definitely had some easy to pigeonhole, campy things though (grunge, the deluge of female pop singer-songwriters and alternative-styled pop, songs like "Steal My Sunshine", the blonde highlights on guys that are oh-so-1999, the Spice Girls, the triangle and squiggle early '90s era and some very campy '90s hip-hop fashion, the novelty and step songs, the popularity of cheesy techno and country, some of the fashion that's just weird, goth and new metal), but the '00s are more campy in a flamboyant, '80s way. Though the '00s are more tongue-in-cheek.


The way I see it, there are certain parts of the '90s that are very easy to pigeonhole.  For instance, the Spice Girls are very, VERY 1997, along with Tamagotchis.  Blonde highlights and Ricky Martin scream 1999.  REM is very, very 1991, and Rocko's Modern Life is very 1993-ish.  But it's kind of hard, but not impossible, to generalize the entire decade.


The '90s had less overt things to unify it as a decade, though on closer look alot of common threads ran through it, even up to 2001.


Definitely.  For instance, Grunge existed in some form or another throughout the 1991-2000 period.  Also, even though I associate the tech boom with the 1993-2000 period, you could trace its beginnings to the late 1980s with the rise of the CD and such.  Also, tattoos were pretty ubuitiquous throughout the '90s, although mostly in the second half of the decade.  And of the course there's the TV trends, such as the rise of media violence, the omnipresence of sitcoms, etc.

Whereas the '80s, which seemingly seem the same throughout, were very, very trendy.  For instance, 1982 probably wasn't that cool in 1985, and 1985 probably wasn't too cool in 1989.

The way I see it, there are certain parts of the '90s that are very easy to pigeonhole.  For instance, the Spice Girls are very, VERY 1997, along with Tamagotchis.  Blonde highlights and Ricky Martin scream 1999.  REM is very, very 1991, and Rocko's Modern Life is very 1993-ish.  But it's kind of hard, but not impossible, to generalize the entire decade.

Definitely.  For instance, Grunge existed in some form or another throughout the 1991-2000 period.  Also, even though I associate the tech boom with the 1993-2000 period, you could trace its beginnings to the late 1980s with the rise of the CD and such.  Also, tattoos were pretty ubuitiquous throughout the '90s, although mostly in the second half of the decade.  And of the course there's the TV trends, such as the rise of media violence, the omnipresence of sitcoms, etc.

Whereas the '80s, which seemingly seem the same throughout, were very, very trendy.  For instance, 1982 probably wasn't that cool in 1985, and 1985 probably wasn't too cool in 1989.




My theory as to why the sitcom rose again is that the boomers with kids in the '90s wanted to recreate the sitcom-heavy atmosphere of their youths. Yeah, I agree that the '90s is alot easier to pigeonhole sectionally. The '90s had alot of very brief trends that continued to be pretty cool throughout the decade...like grunge, which was only really huge from late 1991-1994 but continued to be cool until like late 2002.

Other things I can pigeonhole sectionally: Vanilla Ice and Jody Wattley are very 1990, raving and top 40 techno is very 1998-1999, top 40 country is very late '90s, scrunchy buns are very 1994, overalls and the hippie revival are very 1995, jam rock is very 1995, Beck is very 1996, Blink 182 are very 1998 or 1999, Korn is very 1998, Sheryl Crow is very 2000, Marilyn Manson is very 1997, The Smashing Pumpkins are very 1996...

The '80s were more unified by a general, cheesy look than anything else.

My theory as to why the sitcom rose again is that the boomers with kids in the '90s wanted to recreate the sitcom-heavy atmosphere of their youths. Yeah, I agree that the '90s is alot easier to pigeonhole sectionally. The '90s had alot of very brief trends that continued to be pretty cool throughout the decade...like grunge, which was only really huge from late 1991-1994 but continued to be cool until like late 2002.

Other things I can pigeonhole sectionally: Vanilla Ice and Jody Wattley are very 1990, raving and top 40 techno is very 1998-1999, top 40 country is very late '90s, scrunchy buns are very 1994, overalls and the hippie revival are very 1995, jam rock is very 1995, Beck is very 1996, Blink 182 are very 1998 or 1999, Korn is very 1998, Sheryl Crow is very 2000, Marilyn Manson is very 1997, The Smashing Pumpkins are very 1996...

The '80s were more unified by a general, cheesy look than anything else.


I agree. The '00s are also; really, how big a difference is there between 2002-03 and 2005-06?  Hardly any really.

I agree. The '00s are also; really, how big a difference is there between 2002-03 and 2005-06?  Hardly any really.


I would say the '00s are one of the slowest-changing decades, though alot of the '80s were fairly slow-changing, between late 1982 and early 1986, anyway. The '70s were sort of fast changing, I suppose.

I agree. The '00s are also; really, how big a difference is there between 2002-03 and 2005-06?  Hardly any really.


There is a difference between 2002 and 2006, at least in music. You don't hear the Cam'Ron, City High type stuff anymore. Enrique Iglesias was still big in 02 as well.

There is a difference between 2002 and 2006, at least in music. You don't hear the Cam'Ron, City High type stuff anymore. Enrique Iglesias was still big in 02 as well.


True. It's a pretty minimal difference though, but then again 1992 to 1996 is not a huge difference either.

True. It's a pretty minimal difference though, but then again 1992 to 1996 is not a huge difference either.


Things like Ashanti and Pink are very 2002 as well. NSYNC was still popular in early '02 as well, that was really the last stand for the boy bands. You still hear a lot of Nickelback, that hasn't changed. I think I've gotten quite sick of them. How You Remind Me is pretty good, but the rest of their stuff has gotten repetitive and boring.

Things like Ashanti and Pink are very 2002 as well. NSYNC was still popular in early '02 as well, that was really the last stand for the boy bands. You still hear a lot of Nickelback, that hasn't changed. I think I've gotten quite sick of them. How You Remind Me is pretty good, but the rest of their stuff has gotten repetitive and boring.


Definitely. How You Remind Me is awesome, but every song since has been terribly lame.  I guess it's because they're such a radio-friendly band.

Definitely. How You Remind Me is awesome, but every song since has been terribly lame.  I guess it's because they're such a radio-friendly band.


"Someday" "Photograph" and "Savin' Me" are all pretty much the exact same song.

I agree. The '00s are also; really, how big a difference is there between 2002-03 and 2005-06?  Hardly any really.


I actually noticed a distinct difference between the 2002-2004 period and the 2005-2006 period, especially in music. The earlier 00's music composed of mostly hip-hop with artists like Nelly, Chingy, Ja Rule, Ashanti, DMX, Petey Pablo, etc. Now it's more alternative, electronic, and A/C that are in the charts (Gwen Stefani, the Gorillaz, the Killerz, Cascada, James Blunt, Daniel Powter, etc.). On TV, there are finally some good shows (sitcoms) and less of the boring and cliched reality shows that the early 00's had a lot of. Also, since Dave Chappelle disappeared, Mind of Mencia seemed to take the place of Chappelle's Show. Even if Chappelle's new season airs, I don't think it will be the same as before. The movies are still pretty much the same, with sequels to X-Men, Ice Age, Shrek, Harry Potter, Spiderman, and a few others, but 2005 started the Batman Begins series, and 2006 started the Superman Returns series.

Furthermore, the Pussycat Dolls (the Spice Girls of 2005) screamed out that it's 2005 like the PSP and the XBox 360.

I actually noticed a distinct difference between the 2002-2004 period and the 2005-2006 period, especially in music. The earlier 00's music composed of mostly hip-hop with artists like Nelly, Chingy, Ja Rule, Ashanti, DMX, Petey Pablo, etc. Now it's more alternative, electronic, and A/C that are in the charts (Gwen Stefani, the Gorillaz, the Killerz, Cascada, James Blunt, Daniel Powter, etc.). On TV, there are finally some good shows (sitcoms) and less of the boring and cliched reality shows that the early 00's had a lot of. Also, since Dave Chappelle disappeared, Mind of Mencia seemed to take the place of Chappelle's Show. Even if Chappelle's new season airs, I don't think it will be the same as before. The movies are still pretty much the same, with sequels to X-Men, Ice Age, Shrek, Harry Potter, Spiderman, and a few others, but 2005 started the Batman Begins series, and 2006 started the Superman Returns series.

Furthermore, the Pussycat Dolls (the Spice Girls of 2005) screamed out that it's 2005 like the PSP and the XBox 360.


Yeah, I think to a certain extent hard rap isn't as popular as it was in say 2003, and there's more pop now than then.

Yeah, I think to a certain extent hard rap isn't as popular as it was in say 2003, and there's more pop now than then.


I'd say the absolute peak is like 2003, or even '04.


I actually noticed a distinct difference between the 2002-2004 period and the 2005-2006 period, especially in music. The earlier 00's music composed of mostly hip-hop with artists like Nelly, Chingy, Ja Rule, Ashanti, DMX, Petey Pablo, etc. Now it's more alternative, electronic, and A/C that are in the charts (Gwen Stefani, the Gorillaz, the Killerz, Cascada, James Blunt, Daniel Powter, etc.). On TV, there are finally some good shows (sitcoms) and less of the boring and cliched reality shows that the early 00's had a lot of. Also, since Dave Chappelle disappeared, Mind of Mencia seemed to take the place of Chappelle's Show. Even if Chappelle's new season airs, I don't think it will be the same as before. The movies are still pretty much the same, with sequels to X-Men, Ice Age, Shrek, Harry Potter, Spiderman, and a few others, but 2005 started the Batman Begins series, and 2006 started the Superman Returns series.

Furthermore, the Pussycat Dolls (the Spice Girls of 2005) screamed out that it's 2005 like the PSP and the XBox 360.


And also, the rise of Emo over nu metal.

I actually noticed a distinct difference between the 2002-2004 period and the 2005-2006 period, especially in music. The earlier 00's music composed of mostly hip-hop with artists like Nelly, Chingy, Ja Rule, Ashanti, DMX, Petey Pablo, etc. Now it's more alternative, electronic, and A/C that are in the charts (Gwen Stefani, the Gorillaz, the Killerz, Cascada, James Blunt, Daniel Powter, etc.). On TV, there are finally some good shows (sitcoms) and less of the boring and cliched reality shows that the early 00's had a lot of. Also, since Dave Chappelle disappeared, Mind of Mencia seemed to take the place of Chappelle's Show. Even if Chappelle's new season airs, I don't think it will be the same as before. The movies are still pretty much the same, with sequels to X-Men, Ice Age, Shrek, Harry Potter, Spiderman, and a few others, but 2005 started the Batman Begins series, and 2006 started the Superman Returns series.

Furthermore, the Pussycat Dolls (the Spice Girls of 2005) screamed out that it's 2005 like the PSP and the XBox 360.


2004 goes with 2005 and 2006 more probably. Late 2001-mid 03 kind of fit together.

2004 goes with 2005 and 2006 more probably. Late 2001-mid 03 kind of fit together.


Yeah, late 2001-mid 2003 had the nu metal, revised teen pop and A/C, really crappy reality TV, JLo and velour tracksuits, early crunk rap tieing them together. I think the "peak '00s" began with a few things: "Dangerously in Love" hitting #1, Hail to the Thief coming out in the summer of 2003, blogging getting huge, the current emo-indie rock wave getting known to more than hipsters, the iPod starting to come out, and getting saturated with fast internet access and digital cable/"On Demand." The absolute peak of rap was probably '04, when only one week of the Billboard Hot 100 wasn't rap.

Yeah, late 2001-mid 2003 had the nu metal, revised teen pop and A/C, really crappy reality TV, JLo and velour tracksuits, early crunk rap tieing them together. I think the "peak '00s" began with a few things: "Dangerously in Love" hitting #1, Hail to the Thief coming out in the summer of 2003, blogging getting huge, the current emo-indie rock wave getting known to more than hipsters, the iPod starting to come out, and getting saturated with fast internet access and digital cable/"On Demand." The absolute peak of rap was probably '04, when only one week of the Billboard Hot 100 wasn't rap.


The iPod actually came out for 2001, but it was mac only, so it didn't get real big until it was released for Windows in 2003. I really think Sping 2003 around april or so is when the mid '00s really got going. "In Da Club" and "Get Busy" were real popular right around then, very mid '00s songs for sure. Then with crunk appearing with a bang in late '03 it was definitely in the peak of the '00s.

The iPod actually came out for 2001, but it was mac only, so it didn't get real big until it was released for Windows in 2003. I really think Sping 2003 around april or so is when the mid '00s really got going. "In Da Club" and "Get Busy" were real popular right around then, very mid '00s songs for sure. Then with crunk appearing with a bang in late '03 it was definitely in the peak of the '00s.


Yeah, once 50 Cent and Beyonce were household names it was the peak '00s.

Yeah, once 50 Cent and Beyonce were household names it was the peak '00s.


I agree: 50 Cent embodies the mid '00s zeitgeist.

The iPod actually came out for 2001, but it was mac only, so it didn't get real big until it was released for Windows in 2003. I really think Sping 2003 around april or so is when the mid '00s really got going. "In Da Club" and "Get Busy" were real popular right around then, very mid '00s songs for sure. Then with crunk appearing with a bang in late '03 it was definitely in the peak of the '00s.



Yeah,mid-2003 strikes me as being the beginning of the mid 00's atmosphere as well.

As I've stated, and still state vehemently, the 00s are the least 'distinct' or 'identifyable' decade since about the 50s. There are no trends or cultural markers which really stick out which were analoguous to say Disco in the 70s ('emo' is the poor child of goth and goth culture and whiney 90s punk). The only trends are technological, which is a natural progression anyway. It is only late GenYers, who largely grew up in the 00s, which can really feel or inhale the zeitgeist of the era. Most other people don't even consider the '00s' a proper decade if you know what I mean.

I agree that many people don't even see the '00s as being a decade.  That's why 2006 is sometimes called the "early 2000s", it's the early 21st century!


It is only late GenYers, who largely grew up in the 00s, which can really feel or inhale the zeitgeist of the era. Most other people don't even consider the '00s' a proper decade if you know what I mean.


'00s is the era of late Gen Y?  I've always though of the prime '00s people as being late '80s/early '90s born, like maybe from 1986-1993, which is pretty much the core of Gen Y.  Unless you consider the '90s to be more early Y than late X.  Didn't you say you think Gen Y is like 1976-1990?

The most widely accepted definition for GenY is those born between 1976 and 2001: which I thought was ridiculous, 2001? That's a period of 25 years, and makes no sense at all.

My personal ideal definition of Gen Y are those born between about 1978 and 1993: which is about 15 years. The Baby Boomers were supposed to last from 1946 to 1964: a period of 18 years...This would mean GenX is from 1964 to 1976, about 12 years.

Peak Gen-Y is from 1982 to 1988, I consider the later part of Gen-Y to be from 1988 to about 1992.

The most widely accepted definition for GenY is those born between 1976 and 2001: which I thought was ridiculous, 2001? That's a period of 25 years, and makes no sense at all.

My personal ideal definition of Gen Y are those born between about 1978 and 1993: which is about 15 years. The Baby Boomers were supposed to last from 1946 to 1964: a period of 18 years...This would mean GenX is from 1964 to 1976, about 12 years.

Peak Gen-Y is from 1982 to 1988, I consider the later part of Gen-Y to be from 1988 to about 1992.




But here's the thing: 1993ers, and even 1994ers do not smack of Gen Z to me.  Yeah, they seem young to me, but they seem more like the tail-end of Y than the beginning of the generation currently being born.  I don't think honest-to-God, next-gen Gen Z beings until around 1998.  1995ers, '96ers and '97ers really border between Y and Z.

But here's the thing: 1993ers, and even 1994ers do not smack of Gen Z to me.  Yeah, they seem young to me, but they seem more like the tail-end of Y than the beginning of the generation currently being born.  I don't think honest-to-God, next-gen Gen Z beings until around 1998.  1995ers, '96ers and '97ers really border between Y and Z.


Eh, I'm not getting into this argument... ;D

Eh, I'm not getting into this argument... ;D


;D

But here's the thing: 1993ers, and even 1994ers do not smack of Gen Z to me.  Yeah, they seem young to me, but they seem more like the tail-end of Y than the beginning of the generation currently being born.  I don't think honest-to-God, next-gen Gen Z beings until around 1998.  1995ers, '96ers and '97ers really border between Y and Z.


I refuse to acknowledge those born in 1994 as true Gen-Y kids, perhaps they have been exposed to fringe Gen-Y things like Nick cartoons, but they never really watched shows like Rugrats at their peak in the mid-90s. They grew up firmly in the post-WWW/Cellphone era, which is a huge dividing factor. The culture they grew up with is also quite different from that of mine. When they were 10, it was already 2003! When I was 10 there was still Grunge, greasy dread-locks were still in, and kids actually played outside. A whole WORLD of difference...

I refuse to acknowledge those born in 1994 as true Gen-Y kids, perhaps they have been exposed to fringe Gen-Y things like Nick cartoons, but they never really watched shows like Rugrats at their peak in the mid-90s. They grew up firmly in the post-WWW/Cellphone era, which is a huge dividing factor. The culture they grew up with is also quite different from that of mine. When they were 10, it was already 2003! When I was 10 there was still Grunge, greasy dread-locks were still in, and kids actually played outside. A whole WORLD of difference...


Well, the thing is you could say a 1962er isn't a true Boomer for not growing up going to malt shops, and for not being old enough to be a hippie.  I think remembering the first 2/3 of the '90s is a requirement for peak Y, but it's not a general Y requirement.  I think those born in 1993, 1994, and even as late as 1996 are more the tail-end of our generation then the elders of the generation that's currently being born.  But I have seen definitions stretching up to 1999 or even to the present for Gen Y that I absolutely disagree with.  If you were born after Y2K, or can't remember the year 1999 you're not a Gen Y.  I'd be more willing to end Y at 1994 than the year 2000.  Also, I should note that I consider those born in the late '70s, and even very early '80s babies to be late-end Xers, with strong Y influence, due to the fact that they were exposed to early 21st century tech during their teen years in the mid '90s to early '00s.  You don't hear about 25-year-old emo kids that much, or at least I don't.

I refuse to acknowledge those born in 1994 as true Gen-Y kids, perhaps they have been exposed to fringe Gen-Y things like Nick cartoons, but they never really watched shows like Rugrats at their peak in the mid-90s. They grew up firmly in the post-WWW/Cellphone era, which is a huge dividing factor. The culture they grew up with is also quite different from that of mine. When they were 10, it was already 2003! When I was 10 there was still Grunge, greasy dread-locks were still in, and kids actually played outside. A whole WORLD of difference...


But again, I note a difference between 1990-1992ers and 1993ers and 1994ers.  If you were born in 1990, 1991, or even 1992 you would at least have been truly around for the '90s, even if you didn't experience them fully.  1993ers and 1994ers generally know only 1999, and maybe a little 1998 and 1997.  But still, at least they can probably remember the new millenium and feel comfortable with VHS.

I refuse to acknowledge those born in 1994 as true Gen-Y kids, perhaps they have been exposed to fringe Gen-Y things like Nick cartoons, but they never really watched shows like Rugrats at their peak in the mid-90s. They grew up firmly in the post-WWW/Cellphone era, which is a huge dividing factor. The culture they grew up with is also quite different from that of mine. When they were 10, it was already 2003! When I was 10 there was still Grunge, greasy dread-locks were still in, and kids actually played outside. A whole WORLD of difference...



1994ers are on the Y/Z cusp IMO. They should recall the atmosphere of the late 90's/early 00's. Plus they'll be a teenager in 2007. I think anybody whose teen years(even if it's only a few) are in the 00's are at least partially Y.

1994ers are on the Y/Z cusp IMO. They should recall the atmosphere of the late 90's/early 00's. Plus they'll be a teenager in 2007. I think anybody whose teen years(even if it's only a few) are in the 00's are at least partially Y.


1994-1997 IMO makes the cusp.  1994ers and 1995ers I think are more Gen Y, 1996ers and 1997ers are more Z.  Pure Y is really only 1983-1993.

1994-1997 IMO makes the cusp.  1994ers and 1995ers I think are more Gen Y, 1996ers and 1997ers are more Z.  Pure Y is really only 1983-1993.



Yeah. 1994-1997 sounds about right. I dont think pure Z starts until about 1999 or 2000.

I think we all roughly agree...let's not turn this into a whole discussion on generations. I do agree with Donnie that 1996 may be the first really more Z year enough to be Z, but it might also be 1995.

Just to re-iterate, what do you consider the main traits/features of Gen Z? I haven't really seen a comprehensive list anywhere...

IMO-

1. Are totally used to and familiar with digital technology, inc. cell phones, digital cable, and computers in every way. Probably wouldn't be familiar except in a cursory way with VHS and cassettes, like they've seen 'em but they're not the primary format. They don't remember the digital revolution of the '90s.
2. The time before all of this isn't that far off, though.
3. They don't have a conception of the drastic changes of the early '00s in terms of American life, if they're American.
4. They were under 10 in 2004 at the peak of '00s culture and so really too young to get into it at its "prime" phase.
5. The early-mid '90s is old enough to seem like the '80s or late '70s to Gen Yers.
6. Probably, though not necessarily, are the children of Generation X. They have the same quandary of being totally familiar with the culture of the '80s via their parents that Yers have with the '60s and '70s and their parents.

So you're saying us Gen Yers are totally familiar with the 60s and 70s?

For a relatively small proportion yes, but the majority of my peers know next to nothing on say, the 'real' Psychadelic/New Tribal/'Flower Power' revolution, and probably only know the most well-known groups like Hendrix, the Doors, the Beatles...

Not sure about Generation Z and the 80s...It seems many Gen-Xers have actually tried to forget the 80s. They have an infuriating tendancy to 'forget' things, and have no time for nostalgia.

So you're saying us Gen Yers are totally familiar with the 60s and 70s?

For a relatively small proportion yes, but the majority of my peers know next to nothing on say, the 'real' Psychadelic/New Tribal/'Flower Power' revolution, and probably only know the most well-known groups like Hendrix, the Doors, the Beatles...

Not sure about Generation Z and the 80s...It seems many Gen-Xers have actually tried to forget the 80s. They have an infuriating tendancy to 'forget' things, and have no time for nostalgia.


I think early and peak Gen Xers tend to idealize the '80s alot less than the late Xers and Yers who didn't fully experience them. But nevertheless, alot of them view contemporary society like it's still 1988. We're not totally familiar with it, but most of our parents, where I live, anyway, blare '60s and '70s classic rock and soul constantly. So we get the gyst of it, alot of us, anyway. It's sort of our parents' music.