Is there any cultural divide between 1980s and '90s babies, or are they two halves of one generation?  Is, say, a 1991er more anti-Y than a 1988er?

I think people born in the early '90s are a bit more anti-Y than people born in the late '80s, I've just observed this. But we're still basically both Gen Y. It's sort of the same thing as to how people born in the late '50s and early '60s had alot more anti-boomers, like Doug Coupland, the author of Generation X, and the '80s/'90s alternative rockers like Frank Black and Thurston Moore. They led Gen X and probably people in the early '90s will probably be leading people born from the mid '90s on in whatever Gen Z does. But early '90s is still pretty similar, I reiterate.

I think people born in the early '90s are a bit more anti-Y than people born in the late '80s, I've just observed this. But we're still basically both Gen Y. It's sort of the same thing as to how people born in the late '50s and early '60s had alot more anti-boomers, like Doug Coupland, the author of Generation X, and the '80s/'90s alternative rockers like Frank Black and Thurston Moore. They led Gen X and probably people in the early '90s will probably be leading people born from the mid '90s on in whatever Gen Z does. But early '90s is still pretty similar, I reiterate.


I'd agree.  We're not quite tail-end Gen Y (that's more 1993-1996), and nowhere close to Z, but we're a lit more anti-Y than say a 1986er is.

Yeah, I think alot more people born in the mid-late 1980s are really totally enveloped in the whole Gen Y thing-hipsters, aesthetics, iPods, etc. There're alot more people our age who don't really embrace Gen Y culture, and I think I've noticed this even more around 92-93. We're able to see beyond it alot more.

Yeah, I think alot more people born in the mid-late 1980s are really totally enveloped in the whole Gen Y thing-hipsters, aesthetics, iPods, etc. There're alot more people our age who don't really embrace Gen Y culture, and I think I've noticed this even more around 92-93. We're able to see beyond it alot more.


You know what? I think a typical person born in 1985 or '86 is actually alot more "anti '80s" and "hipster" than someone born around 1990.

Of course this doesn't apply to everyone, but especially a few years back, I definitely noticed a difference between myself (an '81er) and alot of people just four or five years younger than me. I hated when I was 16 and the 12-13 year olds didn't know about anything I grew up with. That was when I started feeling maybe not "old" but "different" or "outcasted" among the emerging youth culture.

There's a reason for this I think -- they were the prime boy band/N'Sync/Pokemon/1999 culture people. When they were around 13, the stuff we have today was just in its early stages (and more "fresh" in the pop culture landscape), so it really imprinted them.

Whereas people more your guys' age I think tend to be more open-minded from having lived with it a few years already. Because we still have a "late 90-ish" pop culture feel in many ways, if you were born in 1990, your teen"years aren't nearly as "hipster oriented", at least not to the extent it was in the past. Therefore you tend to look elsewhere easier, if that makes sense.

I think 1990 is definitely at the tail-end of the hipster thing, I think we're the final year for who that will be a really, really huge cultural thing...there just aren't as many hipster/emo kids born after us, I've noticed this just going around outside and in my schol.

You know what? I think a typical person born in 1985 or '86 is actually alot more "anti '80s" and "hipster" than someone born around 1990.

Of course this doesn't apply to everyone, but especially a few years back, I definitely noticed a difference between myself (an '81er) and alot of people just four or five years younger than me. I hated when I was 16 and the 12-13 year olds didn't know about anything I grew up with. That was when I started feeling maybe not "old" but "different" or "outcasted" among the emerging youth culture.

There's a reason for this I think -- they were the prime boy band/N'Sync/Pokemon/1999 culture people. When they were around 13, the stuff we have today was just in its early stages (and more "fresh" in the pop culture landscape), so it really imprinted them.

Whereas people more your guys' age I think tend to be more open-minded from having lived with it a few years already. Because we still have a "late 90-ish" pop culture feel in many ways, if you were born in 1990, your teen"years aren't nearly as "hipster oriented", at least not to the extent it was in the past. Therefore you tend to look elsewhere easier, if that makes sense.



Yeah, I was born in '82 and my sister in '87, so that's 5 1/2 years difference (my b-day is in June, hers in December) and when we were younger, that was a huge chasm.  I remembered time without cable, answering machines, VCRs, cell phones, stuff like that whereas she turned 16 in 2003......well into the age of cable, cell phones, internet, etc,.  Also, when that teen pop movement was at its peak, I was 18, she was 12-13, so she was in their target demographic. 

I think if she had been born a few years later, she'd have even more different experiences than me.

I don't really know, while I am in to gen y culture, I don't confine myself to gen y things. I like modern music, but I like a lot of other stuff as well. I like modern tv shows, but I like a lot of older ones as well. Same with movies and everything else. I think a lot of people around my age are the same way. I think a lot of 13 and 14 year olds are pretty much confined to liking hip-hop or emo. I think I like late '90s music more than they do because that was kinda the first music that I really got into.

You know what? I think a typical person born in 1985 or '86 is actually alot more "anti '80s" and "hipster" than someone born around 1990.

Of course this doesn't apply to everyone, but especially a few years back, I definitely noticed a difference between myself (an '81er) and alot of people just four or five years younger than me. I hated when I was 16 and the 12-13 year olds didn't know about anything I grew up with. That was when I started feeling maybe not "old" but "different" or "outcasted" among the emerging youth culture.

There's a reason for this I think -- they were the prime boy band/N'Sync/Pokemon/1999 culture people. When they were around 13, the stuff we have today was just in its early stages (and more "fresh" in the pop culture landscape), so it really imprinted them.

Whereas people more your guys' age I think tend to be more open-minded from having lived with it a few years already. Because we still have a "late 90-ish" pop culture feel in many ways, if you were born in 1990, your teen"years aren't nearly as "hipster oriented", at least not to the extent it was in the past. Therefore you tend to look elsewhere easier, if that makes sense.


I totally agree.

You'd still say 1990 (and even up to 1994ish) is still pure Gen Y though, right?  I think those born from like September of 1989 upwards are more anti-Y, since like you said they're more used to the "1999" culture of the 1997-2006 period and tend to disdain both the "mainstream Y" hip hop culture and the "hipster/emo" alternative "smart Y" culture.

But, we're still the peers of those born in the 1980s moreso then we are the peers of mid and late 1990s kids, and we're definitely more like 1980s kids than 2000s kids.  But, we will be the ones that entertain Gen Z I think.  

Take Drew Barrymore vs. Dakota Fanning for instance.  Barrymore seems like a tail-end X more than an early Y, but is an entertainer of Ys.  Fanning seems like a tail-end Yer that will entertain Zs in the 2010s.

Yeah, I had that thought...early '90s people will be the entertainers of Zs and probably start the movements that are popular with them. Like most popular '80s musicians were tail-end boomers born in the early '60s or so, but Gen Xers constituted the mainstay of their audience, and people like John Lennon and Janis Joplin were born during World War II at the tail-end of the Silent Generation but developed the ideas that entranced the boomers.

Yeah, I was born in '82 and my sister in '87, so that's 5 1/2 years difference (my b-day is in June, hers in December) and when we were younger, that was a huge chasm.  I remembered time without cable, answering machines, VCRs, cell phones, stuff like that whereas she turned 16 in 2003......well into the age of cable, cell phones, internet, etc,.  Also, when that teen pop movement was at its peak, I was 18, she was 12-13, so she was in their target demographic. 

I think if she had been born a few years later, she'd have even more different experiences than me.


Yeah, I even remember some of the most minute things. Such as getting our first VCR in 1984 when I was either 2 or 3. Even the late '70s were somewhat influential to what I liked, so even if they were a little before my time, I never felt they were "old" or anything.

Even as a kid it was really easy for me to get a picture of how a 1970-born teenager in the '80s would've lived and what they were into. That's why when I started hearing '86-born people talking about 1989 like it was their parents' generation, it was like "WTF??????" ;D

Yeah, I had that thought...early '90s people will be the entertainers of Zs and probably start the movements that are popular with them. Like most popular '80s musicians were tail-end boomers born in the early '60s or so, but Gen Xers constituted the mainstay of their audience, and people like John Lennon and Janis Joplin were born during World War II at the tail-end of the Silent Generation but developed the ideas that entranced the boomers.


Isn't that odd?

Isn't that odd?


Yeah, it is. Most "boomer" icons of the '60s and '70s were really tail-end Silent Generation people born in the early-mid '40s during World War II.

Yeah, it is. Most "boomer" icons of the '60s and '70s were really tail-end Silent Generation people born in the early-mid '40s during World War II.


That's true.

During the 2010s and 2020s the early '90s babies will be aged 20-39, the prime entertainment age.  Even the '80s babies will be old by then!  ;D

I totally agree.

You'd still say 1990 (and even up to 1994ish) is still pure Gen Y though, right?  I think those born from like September of 1989 upwards are more anti-Y, since like you said they're more used to the "1999" culture of the 1997-2006 period and tend to disdain both the "mainstream Y" hip hop culture and the "hipster/emo" alternative "smart Y" culture.

But, we're still the peers of those born in the 1980s moreso then we are the peers of mid and late 1990s kids, and we're definitely more like 1980s kids than 2000s kids.  But, we will be the ones that entertain Gen Z I think.

Take Drew Barrymore vs. Dakota Fanning for instance.  Barrymore seems like a tail-end X more than an early Y, but is an entertainer of Ys.  Fanning seems like a tail-end Yer that will entertain Zs in the 2010s.


It's hard to say 'cause the age of entertainers (at least among the hipster crowd) has gone down. For the Gen X Brat Packers in 1985, some of their entertainers may have been born as far back as the Boomer Cusp of circa 1943, if we're talking about people like Chevy Chase or older rockers like Mick Jagger and Rod Stewart. Although it would center on people born around 1958 (Madonna, Prince, etc).

And I find it ironic that Gen X-ers (people who tend to hate the '90s grunge era) are actually the ones who made it come around in the first place. Kurt Cobain was a 1967-er.

Drew Barrymore seems like an X/Y cusp as far as her audience. She's been around since 1995 or so (at least as an adult - albeit she's still got that "young/party chick" attitude about her, so she doesn't really seem old).

Yeah, all three massively successful '80s entertainers were born in 1958, making them at the peak age of about 26 in 1984, the peak of the '80s: Michael Jackson, Madonna, and Prince.

You'd still say 1990 (and even up to 1994ish) is still pure Gen Y though, right?  I think those born from like September of 1989 upwards are more anti-Y, since like you said they're more used to the "1999" culture of the 1997-2006 period and tend to disdain both the "mainstream Y" hip hop culture and the "hipster/emo" alternative "smart Y" culture.

It probably is, but in a slightly different way. Just as the 1968-71 people are prime Brat Pack-ers, I think circa 1985-ers are the prime boy band/Internet generation, so they're more noticibly Gen Y.

There's a huge difference between your average 1990 person and 1984 person. The 1984-88 girls for instance, were BSB and Hanson's "Ohmigooood! They're sooooo hoottttt!" audience of 12 year olds back in the late '90s. ;D

Like I said, you guys don't have as much of a "phenominon" in pop culture to be like that with, so that's probably why in all honesty, I probably can relate to a modern 16 year old more than a modern 20 year old (even if you guys are more like younger siblings to me and I share slightly more personal experiences with a 1985-er).

It was the 1985-ers that made me feel very old/uncool in 1998-2003. ;)

But really I believe it's just two halves to the same generation. Those born 1993-1996/7 or so do seem like a different generation at times to me, but they're really just the tail end of gen y. I believe the early '90s born are overall pretty similiar to us mid-late '80s born.

It probably is, but in a slightly different way. There's a huge difference between your average 1990 person and 1984 person. The 1984-88 girls for instance, were BSB and Hanson's "Ohmigooood! They're sooooo hoottttt!" audience of 12 year olds back in the late '90s. ;D

Like I said, you guys don't have as much of a "phenominon" in pop culture to be like that with, so that's probably why in all honesty, I probably can relate to a modern 16 year old more than a modern 20 year old (even if I share slightly more personal experiences with a 1985-er).


That was the 4th/5th grade girls in 1997 in my class, they all loved hanson.

People my age were old enough to like  Hanson and the Spice Girls and Britney Spears, but not to get really, really into them the same way people to about '87 were, and particularly people in the mid-80s. I don't even think '92 and '93 were old enough to even like them, really. IMO, 77-80 is cusp XY, 81-93 is Y, and 94-96 is cusp YZ, with probably more Z than Y.

People my age were old enough to like  Hanson and the Spice Girls and Britney Spears, but not to get really, really into them the same way people to about '87 were, and particularly people in the mid-80s. I don't even think '92 and '93 were old enough to even like them, really. IMO, 77-80 is cusp XY, 81-93 is Y, and 94-96 is cusp YZ, with probably more Z than Y.


True, although if you apply my experience, it's possible for someone your age to be into Hanson (not likely, though). ;)

I bet if you compiled all the people born in 1981 and '82's musical tastes, even the ones who have a more wide-reaching or early tastes (such as myself) would be more into 1989 (New Kids, MC Hammer, very late hair metal).

Whereas I always loved 1984 and '85 arena rock and synthpop as much as a Brat Pack-er.

'80s babes (depending on how early in the decade they are born) tend to appreciate more the things that they have now, because they had the bare minimum in the 80's

Yeah, alot of mid-80s babies to about '87 view the '00s as the "best decade ever", moreso than early '90s people, definitely. They like it because it's aesthetically pleasing and technologically advanced, and don't really see beyond that, most of them, anyway.

Yeah, alot of mid-80s babies to about '87 view the '00s as the "best decade ever", moreso than early '90s people, definitely. They like it because it's aesthetically pleasing and technologically advanced, and don't really see beyond that, most of them, anyway.


I'm not so sure about that. I think the '90s are the best decade ever, though the '00s are alright as well.

Yeah, alot of mid-80s babies to about '87 view the '00s as the "best decade ever", moreso than early '90s people, definitely. They like it because it's aesthetically pleasing and technologically advanced, and don't really see beyond that, most of them, anyway.



I was born in '87 so I went to school with the people that your talking about up to last year and I would say your correct. There is a difference between 80's and 90's born people but not a huge one. I was 12 in 1999 and alot of my classmates(even me lol) got into rap and others pop which as was mentioned before there prime target age but someone born in '90/'91 would have been 9/8 years old and may or may not have been into it.

It's hard to say 'cause the age of entertainers (at least among the hipster crowd) has gone down. For the Gen X Brat Packers in 1985, some of their entertainers may have been born as far back as the Boomer Cusp of circa 1943, if we're talking about people like Chevy Chase or older rockers like Mick Jagger and Rod Stewart. Although it would center on people born around 1958 (Madonna, Prince, etc).

And I find it ironic that Gen X-ers (people who tend to hate the '90s grunge era) are actually the ones who made it come around in the first place. Kurt Cobain was a 1967-er.

Drew Barrymore seems like an X/Y cusp as far as her audience. She's been around since 1995 or so (at least as an adult - albeit she's still got that "young/party chick" attitude about her, so she doesn't really seem old).


That's true.  I mean, look at Rihanna.  She's a 1988er, less than two years older than me.  And JoJo, believe it or not, is born in 1990, and she's from 2004!
But generally, I think the entertainers of Gen Z will be born in the '80s, '90s, and '00s.

Yeah, that's true about Barrymore.  A lot of her fans are probably Gen Xers; she's definitely X herself because of her '80s presence in "ET" and such.

Would you call Grunge a Gen Y phoenomenon?  I wouldn't say it is, but it's weird that many if not most Gen Xers hate it.  I think of it more as an XY cusp thing, but since that part of Y is basically the same as Gen X in many respects Grunge is still largely a Gen X thing.  Basically, the 1975-1984 demographic is the one that would like it most, but it's not totally out of style even today.

I was born in '87 so I went to school with the people that your talking about up to last year and I would say your correct. There is a difference between 80's and 90's born people but not a huge one. I was 12 in 1999 and alot of my classmates(even me lol) got into rap and others pop which as was mentioned before there prime target age but someone born in '90/'91 would have been 9/8 years old and may or may not have been into it.


In 1999 I did not like rap, I pretty much liked mostly pop. But by 2001 I started to get into hip-hop, though I still liked pop as well.

I think the peak of that crowd who loved grunge were born from about 1972-1980.

Would you call Grunge a Gen Y phoenomenon?  I wouldn't say it is, but it's weird that many if not most Gen Xers hate it.  I think of it more as an XY cusp thing, but since that part of Y is basically the same as Gen X in many respects Grunge is still largely a Gen X thing.  Basically, the 1975-1984 demographic is the one that would like it most, but it's not totally out of style even today.



Yeah alot of Gen Xers turned against it when it became too commerical too mainstream. It is ironic that now more Gen Yers probably like it than Gen Xers.

I was born in '87 so I went to school with the people that your talking about up to last year and I would say your correct. There is a difference between 80's and 90's born people but not a huge one. I was 12 in 1999 and alot of my classmates(even me lol) got into rap and others pop which as was mentioned before there prime target age but someone born in '90/'91 would have been 9/8 years old and may or may not have been into it.


I'd agree.

I'm lucky enough to have a brother that's a year older than me, and a lot more culturally affluent, so I was aware of pop culture beginning in 1999 (although also bits and pieces of 1993/'94-1998, but mostly kid stuff).

So basically, I was aware of pop culture in 1999/2000, and kind of liked it and never thought of it as "before my time" at all and still don't, but honestly I don't have any first-hand experience of pre-1999 music, except for a few things like hearing the Macarena in 1996/'97 or something like that.  But still, I've never seen it as before my time, even if only because so much of it is still around today.

I agree about '85ers being the "core" Gen Yers though, 1990ers and even up to 1996 are Yers too, because they're the peers of 1980s babies and have a similar perception of time, but they're a bit less "core" Y and a little more anti-Y since the culture has been there all along for them pretty much.  But still, they're nowhere close to Gen Z, even if they're a teeny bit more "Zish" then the '80s kids that love the '00s and hate the '80s because they had minimal '80s experience and find them easier to hate.

That's true.  I mean, look at Rihanna.  She's a 1988er, less than two years older than me.  And JoJo, believe it or not, is born in 1990, and she's from 2004!
But generally, I think the entertainers of Gen Z will be born in the '80s, '90s, and '00s.

Yeah, that's true about Barrymore.  A lot of her fans are probably Gen Xers; she's definitely X herself because of her '80s presence in "ET" and such.

Would you call Grunge a Gen Y phoenomenon?  I wouldn't say it is, but it's weird that many if not most Gen Xers hate it.  I think of it more as an XY cusp thing, but since that part of Y is basically the same as Gen X in many respects Grunge is still largely a Gen X thing.  Basically, the 1975-1984 demographic is the one that would like it most, but it's not totally out of style even today.


Grunge is really an XY cusp thing like you said, those mid-late '70ers and early '80ers grew up with it.

Grunge is really an XY cusp thing like you said, those mid-late '70ers and early '80ers grew up with it.


I think the '90s in general were X/Y boundary realm, not straight Y, except maybe for 1999 and in some ways (such as South Park) 1997 and 1998, but not Emo/Myspace Y either.

I think the '90s in general were X/Y boundary realm, not straight Y, except maybe for 1999 and in some ways (such as South Park) 1997 and 1998, but not Emo/Myspace Y either.


Yea I would agree the '90s in general are split between x & y, with the early '90s being more x and the late '90s being more y.

Yea I would agree the '90s in general are split between x & y, with the early '90s being more x and the late '90s being more y.


Would you say 1997 is the first Y year?  Because 1995 and 1996 are really just washed-out 1993 and 1994 culture, which is still pretty X-ey to me.

I think the '90s in general were X/Y boundary realm, not straight Y, except maybe for 1999 and in some ways (such as South Park) 1997 and 1998, but not Emo/Myspace Y either.


I think the '90s was more the last run of Gen X as opposed to the first run of Gen Y, even if the '90s and '00s are relatively similar (at least compared to most other decades). Someone born in 1968 was still only 25 in 1993 and 28 in 1996 and therefore kind of part of the Melrose Place/20-something crowd, ya know?

1997 felt like a huge change to me, even at the time. 1999 is when the "1997ish" stuff really kicked in.

Yeah, I think '97, maybe '96 a little, was the first Y year, for early-run early '80s Yers. Kids stuff excepted, of course.

I am a pure gen yer all the way. I try to be more varied in what I like, and in the last few years I have come to like a lot of other music that I didn't use to listen to. I'm not really into myspace though I like looking up people on there I haven't seen in a while. In 2003, my favorite song was probably "Get Busy" by Sean Paul. In 2002 I loved "Dilemma" and "Hot in Herre".

I think the '90s was more the last run of Gen X as opposed to the first run of Gen Y, even if the '90s and '00s are relatively similar (at least compared to most other decades). Someone born in 1968 was still only 25 in 1993 and 28 in 1996 and therefore kind of part of the Melrose Place/20-something crowd, ya know?

1997 felt like a huge change to me, even at the time. 1999 is when the "1997ish" stuff really kicked in.



No doubt 1997 is the first Y year. And yeah alot of stuff from '99 began to take off in '97 including teen pop and that year also seemed like a huge year for rap.

Would you say 1997 is the first Y year?  Because 1995 and 1996 are really just washed-out 1993 and 1994 culture, which is still pretty X-ey to me.


Yea I would say 1997.

I think the '90s was more the last run of Gen X as opposed to the first run of Gen Y, even if the '90s and '00s are relatively similar (at least compared to most other decades).

1997 felt like a huge change to me, even at the time. 1999 is when the "1997ish" stuff really kicked in.


Yeah.  Even though I can't remember much of 1997's pop culture (although I remember a lot of the year itself) besides King of the Hill and the Mike Tyson ear biting incident (wasn't that hilarious?  ;D), by the end of that year even I sort of half-noticed a change in the air, even though this was just before my 8th birthday.  1994 and even 1996 seem much more old school then 1997 and 1998, although even 1999 is looking pretty good these days  :(

I think Y stuff will probably be over by about 2011, in the teen realm, anyway, and it'll be cuspers who are alot more like Z, really. I'm peak Gen Y, but I don't see myself like that, I'm probably part of the "anti-Y" group of people who hates current culture and will lead the backlash against it of the 94+ Gen Z and YZ Cusp people in the 2010s. Or I want to be, anyway. And yeah, I think I noticed a change in the air in '97 or '98, even though I was like in 2nd grade...it just felt slightly different.

Yeah, I think '97, maybe '96 a little, was the first Y year, for early-run early '80s Yers. Kids stuff excepted, of course.


I just had another random thought now.

Well, I have ALWAYS been perplexed when someone relatively my age says they didn't remember/get into pop culture until 1995 when they were 13 or whatever. Of course just because the '80s were such an instrumental part of my childhood, I could never understand how any of my peers could dislike or not remember it then (even if they came to like it later).

However, I have a theory. Just judging from what I saw going to school and watching TV, I think it was getting more common in the '90s for kids to be raised in, say foster homes, grouphomes, or single parent households, etc. Many kids I knew like this or that I heard about, were really sad cases and probably helped shape my view of the whole world.

As a result of that, maybe other 6 year old kids in 1988, or even 10 year olds in 1991/92 were clueless (at the time) because of growing up in this kind of environment.

So the first stuff they liked may've been Grunge and stuff. Perhaps one reason alot of the "urban/cutting edge" styled music and fashions of the '90s were so popular had something to do with that. They appealed to kids who were angrier.

That was way different than my own situation - raised in a suburban house with "cooler" parents, so I probably wouldn't know what it's really like to live in a more troubled kid's shoes and vice versa.

Just another (slightly off topic and random) theory. ;)

I just had another random thought now.

Well, I have ALWAYS been perplexed when someone relatively my age says they didn't remember/get into pop culture until 1995 when they were 13 or whatever. Of course just because the '80s were such an instrumental part of my childhood, I could never understand how any of my peers could dislike or not remember it then (even if they came to like it later).

However, I have a theory. Just judging from what I saw going to school and watching TV, I think it was getting more common in the '90s for kids to be raised in, say foster homes, grouphomes, or single parent households, etc. Many kids I knew like this or that I heard about, were really sad cases and probably helped shape my view of the whole world.

As a result of that, maybe other 6 year old kids in 1988, or even 10 year olds in 1991/92 were clueless (at the time) because of growing up in this kind of environment.

So the first stuff they liked may've been Grunge and stuff. Perhaps one reason alot of the "urban/cutting edge" styled music and fashions of the '90s were so popular had something to do with that. They appealed to kids who were angrier.

That was way different than my own situation - raised in a suburban house with "cooler" parents, so I probably wouldn't know what it's really like to live in a more troubled kid's shoes and vice versa.

Just another (slightly off topic and random) theory. ;)


Yeah, that may be true.

Even in the '80s, though, I think families were becoming less traditional.  "Full House" is a perfect example of this, LOL  ;D

I just had another random thought now.

Well, I have ALWAYS been perplexed when someone relatively my age says they didn't remember/get into pop culture until 1995 when they were 13 or whatever. Of course just because the '80s were such an instrumental part of my childhood, I could never understand how any of my peers could dislike or not remember it then (even if they came to like it later).

However, I have a theory. Just judging from what I saw going to school and watching TV, I think it was getting more common in the '90s for kids to be raised in, say foster homes, grouphomes, or single parent households, etc. Many kids I knew like this or that I heard about, were really sad cases and probably helped shape my view of the whole world.

As a result of that, maybe other 6 year old kids in 1988, or even 10 year olds in 1991/92 were clueless (at the time) because of growing up in this kind of environment.

So the first stuff they liked may've been Grunge and stuff. Perhaps one reason alot of the "urban/cutting edge" styled music and fashions of the '90s were so popular had something to do with that. They appealed to kids who were angrier.

That was way different than my own situation - raised in a suburban house with "cooler" parents, so I probably wouldn't know what it's really like to live in a more troubled kid's shoes and vice versa.

Just another (slightly off topic and random) theory. ;)



That's very true. People who like grunge do tend to relate to the music through some sort of inner pain. But most 80's music is typically much more upbeat in nature.

That's very true. People who like grunge do tend to relate to the music through some sort of inner pain. But most 80's music is typically much more upbeat in nature.


That's part of why I like '80s music.  I don't like it too cheesy, but give me hollow snares and keyboards over acoustic guitar!

Yeah, that may be true.

Even in the '80s, though, I think families were becoming less traditional.  "Full House" is a perfect example of this, LOL  ;D


Yeah, there were alot of these, like Charles In Charge. ;)

But I think these were examples of a more happy non-traditional family. The '90s was more of an unhappy nontraditional family life.

One movie that kinda hits close to home is Mrs Doubtfire. That came out when I was 12, and coincidentally my own parents were going through what I call a casual separation (luckily only for a couple years, and they still were friendly during this period). Not to mention Robin Williams sort of reminds me of my dad, just humorwise. This is a very good snapshot of the time in that sense.

I also think the '90s was the time you had more kids/teens leaving home to live on the streets or do drugs (something way more prevalent than in the '80s).

Maybe it's from watching too many Dateline's and talk shows, but it kinda gave me a good view of the world. Though sometimes I only had to look as far as my own school. Don't wanna turn this into a downer, but I became aware of things like child abuse and alcoholism - stuff I was very knowledgeable on in 1994 that I'd never heard of in 1990.

Grunge and original gangsta rap does have those undertones to it, IMO.

Yeah, there were alot of these, like Charles In Charge. ;)

But I think these were examples of a more happy non-traditional family. The '90s was more of an unhappy nontraditional family life.

One movie that kinda hits close to home is Mrs Doubtfire. That came out when I was 12, and coincidentally my own parents were going through what I call a casual separation (luckily only for a couple years, and they still were friendly during this period). Not to mention Robin Williams sort of reminds me of my dad, just humorwise. This is a very good snapshot of the time in that sense.

I also think the '90s was the time you had more kids/teens leaving home to live on the streets or do drugs (something way more prevalent than in the '80s).

Maybe it's from watching too many Dateline's and talk shows, but it kinda gave me a good view of the world. Though sometimes I only had to look as far as my own school. Don't wanna turn this into a downer, but I became aware of things like child abuse and alcoholism - stuff I was very knowledgeable on in 1994 that I'd never heard of in 1990.

Grunge and original gangsta rap does have those undertones to it, IMO.


I have to agree.  I mean, aside from the huge tragedy of Pam dying, the Full House family were really better off than most traditional families. 

Kids were really f*ed up in the nineties.  Not all of them, of course, nowhere close, but a lot more than in the eighties or even compared to now.  However, this may be an illusion created by the proliferation of information technology, as a lot of kids growing up in the '80s were quite unhappy (although I'm glad to hear that you generally weren't :))

I have to agree.  I mean, aside from the huge tragedy of Pam dying, the Full House family were really better off than most traditional families. 

Kids were really f*ed up in the nineties.  Not all of them, of course, nowhere close, but a lot more than in the eighties or even compared to now.  However, this may be an illusion created by the proliferation of information technology, as a lot of kids growing up in the '80s were quite unhappy (although I'm glad to hear that you generally weren't :))


Yeah, even though Pam was mentioned several times, it was only when necesarry (i.e. the one latter episode where DJ and Kimmie were at a party, and Kimmie was mad that DJ stopped her from leaving after she had a few drinks). The show wasn't afraid to be sentimental, but they focused on the happier side of things IMO - that's what made what really was a tragic story into sort of a "PG-rated party atmosphere" ya know?

BTW thanks, I had a few spans of time that s*cked (i.e. 1995 wasn't a good year), mainly when my parents were separated and such, but even in my worst, I'm sure I still had it better than some of my peers I saw everyday did at their best, so I always tried to be accepting of everyone.

Yeah, even though Pam was mentioned several times, it was only when necesarry (i.e. the one latter episode where DJ and Kimmie were at a party, and Kimmie was mad that DJ stopped her from leaving after she had a few drinks). The show wasn't afraid to be sentimental, but they focused on the happier side of things IMO - that's what made what really was a tragic story into sort of a "PG-rated party atmosphere" ya know?

BTW thanks, I had a few spans of time that s*cked (i.e. 1995 wasn't a good year), mainly when my parents were separated and such, but even in my worst, I'm sure I still had it better than some of my peers I saw everyday did at their best, so I always tried to be accepting of everyone.


You're welcome :)

Would you Full House is to Gen Y what the Brady Bunch is to the Boomers?  I can see a lot of similarities; Joey would agree with me, LOL.

^I think Joey once mentioned the similarities between them and the BB. ;)

I always considered BB to be more of a "modern looking '60s show" even though it was from the '70s. Sort of how today still has alot of late '90s-ish things, just in updated form.

^I think Joey once mentioned the similarities between them and the BB. ;)

I always considered BB to be more of a "modern looking '60s show" even though it was from the '70s. Sort of how today still has alot of late '90s-ish things, just in updated form.


I think BB started in 1968 or '69 and went up to 1974.  It was still very much a "Sixties" show though, just like FH is an "Eighties" show even though it's technically primarily 1990s.

Yeah, alot of mid-80s babies to about '87 view the '00s as the "best decade ever",
I'm not one of them.  ;D

I was born mid-80s (1985... about as close to "mid-80s" as you could possibly get!) and probably fit into your description of "anti-Y" than most people my age. I prefer more music/TV/movies etc made pre-1999 than music post-1999. But I guess I'm the exception to the rule.

Glad I found this topic cause I need some help.

I was born in November of 1989 and I'm not sure what generation I am. Even though I'm sorta anti-00's and pro-80's and 90's, what generation am I?

You're peak Generation Y in number and "anti-Y" in persona, Roadgeek.

Yeah, alot of kids did seem very f*cked up in the '90s...watch My Own Private Idaho, it seems like there were alot of runaways, gutterpunks, and street kids then roughly in their teens, and there was the whole school shooting thing. There were alot more kids like that in the '90s, I think...I'm not sure why, but I think it has to do with the people being born in the late '70s and early '80s having alot of "nontraditional" ex-hippie parents and people who were drug addicts. Nontraditional families had been fairly common since the '60s or '70s with Generation X's inception, but the divorce rate was very high in the 1970s and early 1980s, and this probably impacted that group of '90s teens pretty badly. As to the whole school shooting thing, I think it had to do with culture at the time in the late '90s, which was pretty saturated with that sort of thing, and alot of teen alienation in the '90s. Also, I think teen drug use peaked again in the '90s, though I explain this away by that the parents of that group of teens contained ALOT of ex-'60s people who were pretty damn casual about drugs.

Glad I found this topic cause I need some help.

I was born in November of 1989 and I'm not sure what generation I am. Even though I'm sorta anti-00's and pro-80's and 90's, what generation am I?



Yep you're peak Gen Y alright. IMO the peak of Gen Y lasted until 1990. I think Gen Y countinued to '97 but once you get to '91+ I consider that to be past the "peak" of the generation.

IMO, pure Gen Y goes to '93, mid-90s is YZ cusp, late '90s-2010 is Z.

Yep you're peak Gen Y alright. IMO the peak of Gen Y lasted until 1990. I think Gen Y countinued to '97 but once you get to '91+ I consider that to be past the "peak" of the generation.


Is January 1990 peak also then?  ;D

I think "peak" is 1986-1990, 1991-1996 is late, 1981-1985 is early/cusp.

I just wanted to revive this thread. I was going to say that I think the early '90s will be equivalent to the 58-60 period for baby boomers in that it'll produce Gen Z entertainers.

My cultural generational table:

1946-1963: Baby Boomers
-1958-1963: Late Baby Boom (Boomer-X Cusp)
1964-1977: Generation X
1977-1980: XY Cusp
1981-1993: Generation Y
1994-1996: YZ Cusp
1997-2009 (?): Generation Z

I think people forget that while somebody may be "into" the culture of their pre-13 years, it's usually changed by their teen years, which have the most impact on what they're perceived as. Like plenty of Gen Xers were into '70s culture in their preteen years but abandoned it for the '80s by their teen years.

^That table seems accurate; the only thing I disagree with is making the YZ cusp so small; I think it's more like 1994-2000.  But we agreed to disagree on that one ;)

I just wanted to revive this thread. I was going to say that I think the early '90s will be equivalent to the 58-60 period for baby boomers in that it'll produce Gen Z entertainers.

My cultural generational table:

1946-1963: Baby Boomers
-1958-1963: Late Baby Boom (Boomer-X Cusp)
1964-1977: Generation X
1977-1980: XY Cusp
1981-1993: Generation Y
1994-1996: YZ Cusp
1997-2009 (?): Generation Z

I think people forget that while somebody may be "into" the culture of their pre-13 years, it's usually changed by their teen years, which have the most impact on what they're perceived as. Like plenty of Gen Xers were into '70s culture in their preteen years but abandoned it for the '80s by their teen years.


I still like everything I liked when I was younger except I am aware of a lot more things now.

The biggest difference? 90's babies are far more spoiled (technologically speaking) than 80's in their childhood. My brother, although born in 1987 almost never got spanked and he grew up with cable tv at age 3, nintendo at age 6 and a personal computer when he was 10. This also seemed to be the case with many of my younger relatives who usually grew up with more technology, bought from their parents at an earlier age.

I think the boomer cusp thing is sort of difficult, because you could include all boomers too young to remember the Kennedy Assassination accurately in it. Again, we agreed to disagree, but there's a difference between liking something as a kid and liking something as a teen-up to '00 will be influenced more than '00+ by Y but I think '97+ will be pure Z enough to be called pure Z, like the mid-60s is X enough to be called X though it was more influenced by the boomers than those born starting in the late '60s.

but there's a difference between liking something as a kid and liking something as a teen-up to '00 will be influenced more than '00+ by Y but I think '97+ will be pure Z enough to be called pure Z



Yeah I tend to disagree with people who say that Gen Z starts in 2003/'04. I really believe that '97 is the first true birth year that's pure Z since someone born that year wont even be a teenager until 2010. I think the Y/Z cusp will be a little smaller the X/Y cusp. I say 1993/'94-1997.

Yeah I tend to disagree with people who say that Gen Z starts in 2003/'04. I really believe that '97 is the first true birth year that's pure Z since someone born that year wont even be a teenager until 2010. I think the Y/Z cusp will be a little smaller the X/Y cusp. I say 1993/'94-1997.




Yeah, I agree with that. It'll be like 94-96 or 97 but more predominately Z or mixed, but I definitely think they'll be different than Y culturally but with heavy than Y influences. You could probably say 1967 is the first "really X" year without any baby boomer shadings, but I still think 1964-1966 are more X than boomer. 94-96/97, as teens in a majority Non-Y decade, will probably be different enough culturally than Y to count as the early, cusp part of a different generation.

^^Yeah, I agree with both quotes, for the most part.  I mean, am I really the same generation as a baby born a couple years ago?  No, that's absurd, I'm 16 years old now and they won't even be able to remember 2006.  At the very latest, 2000 is Y, but even that's a little too late.  You have to remember 1999 at least a tiny bit to be Y, it's the ubuitiquous van guard year for Y culture.

Yeah, I think 1993 is pretty much pure Y but just a little cuspy, 1994-1996 is transitional but more Y.  1997-1999 is also transitional, but more Z.  The XY transition is huge between Gen X and Y aren't that different compared to other gens, but Y and Z will be a huge, more clearly marked change, because of the Digital Revolution, 9/11, Bush, and Iraq.

^^Yeah, I agree with both quotes, for the most part.  I mean, am I really the same generation as a baby born a couple years ago?  No, that's absurd, I'm 16 years old now and they won't even be able to remember 2006.  At the very latest, 2000 is Y, but even that's a little too late.  You have to remember 1999 at least a tiny bit to be Y, it's the ubuitiquous van guard year for Y culture.

Yeah, I think 1993 is pretty much pure Y but just a little cuspy, 1994-1996 is transitional but more Y.  1997-1999 is also transitional, but more Z.  The XY transition is huge between Gen X and Y aren't that different compared to other gens, but Y and Z will be a huge, more clearly marked change, because of the Digital Revolution, 9/11, Bush, and Iraq.



Yeah I think they'll be a much larger rift than X and Y like you said. And it is absurd that I would be in the same gen as someone born in 2003. I was 16 when they were born. That's almost old enough to be there father!(Well I guess technically it is old enough ;))

Yeah 2003 is definitely too late for gen y, the latest possible gen y year in my opinion would be like 1999.

I sort of think of Generations X and Y as two subdivisions of a larger late twentieth-century generation born between 1964 and 1994ish. Now, who do we think Generation Z will be more like, of the generations, in personality?

My reasons for putting 1994 as the crossover date for more Gen Zish/YZ Cusp:

-20th century before their time, basically, particularly the pre-digital age. Probably can't grasp pre-digital world.
-Somebody can be part of culture before their teen years, but their teen years is usually what fits them into a cultural generational framework. 1994+ will be more 2010s teens as opposed to 2000s teens. A good example for this is Generation X, lots of them were into the '70s in their preteenish years but later disowned it for the '80s...and yet they're not counted as baby boomers. There's a difference between child experience and teen experience and how they're remembered and impact adults. The 1994-1996 teens are definitely more Y than 1997+ but they are still probably more Generation Z because of that sudden rift. They will like '00s culture but will be more "'10s people."

I sort of think of Generations X and Y as two subdivisions of a larger late twentieth-century generation born between 1964 and 1994ish. Now, who do we think Generation Z will be more like, of the generations, in personality?

My reasons for putting 1994 as the crossover date for more Gen Zish/YZ Cusp:

-20th century before their time, basically, particularly the pre-digital age. Probably can't grasp pre-digital world.
-Somebody can be part of culture before their teen years, but their teen years is usually what fits them into a cultural generational framework. 1994+ will be more 2010s teens as opposed to 2000s teens. A good example for this is Generation X, lots of them were into the '70s in their preteenish years but later disowned it for the '80s...and yet they're not counted as baby boomers. There's a difference between child experience and teen experience and how they're remembered and impact adults. The 1994-1996 teens are definitely more Y than 1997+ but they are still probably more Generation Z because of that sudden rift. They will like '00s culture but will be more "'10s people."




You do make a good point.

How about this "compromise"?  In overall outlook on the world, the 1994-1996ers are more Z, but pop-culturally they're more Y.  Actually I think 1996 is the last Y year; at least they would know VHS tapes, even if they were more comfortable and used to DVDs.

My reasons for putting 1994 as the crossover date for more Gen Zish/YZ Cusp:

-20th century before their time, basically, particularly the pre-digital age. Probably can't grasp pre-digital world.
-Somebody can be part of culture before their teen years, but their teen years is usually what fits them into a cultural generational framework. 1994+ will be more 2010s teens as opposed to 2000s teens. A good example for this is Generation X, lots of them were into the '70s in their preteenish years but later disowned it for the '80s...and yet they're not counted as baby boomers. There's a difference between child experience and teen experience and how they're remembered and impact adults. The 1994-1996 teens are definitely more Y than 1997+ but they are still probably more Generation Z because of that sudden rift. They will like '00s culture but will be more "'10s people."



Very true. Someone born in '94 will be 13 in 2007 so that gives them a little time in the 00's as a teen though.

Yeah, that's very true.

Perhaps my prime reason for 1994-1996 being more Y is because unless you add in the late '70s (which I'm very reluctant to do), Gen Y is just too small.  I mean, 1981-1993 is not long enough for a generation, even if we're talking about a cultural one.

Alot of boundaries with generations are pretty amorphous, you could say both X and Y own the late '70s.

Alot of boundaries with generations are pretty amorphous, you could say both X and Y own the late '70s.


Agreed.  I also think X and Y co-own the early '80s.  1981 is my "offical" bound, but it's only an average.

Agreed.  I also think X and Y co-own the early '80s.  1981 is my "offical" bound, but it's only an average.


What about the boomers/Gen Xers and the early-mid '60s? I think early '80s has definite X influences, more than mid-'80s, but it's still basically early-end Gen Y.

What about the boomers/Gen Xers and the early-mid '60s? I think early '80s has definite X influences, more than mid-'80s, but it's still basically early-end Gen Y.


Yeah, probably.  I think Boomers are 1946-1963, but early '40s is borderline.  Gen X starts either 1964 or '65, I go with '64.

Yeah, that's very true.

Perhaps my prime reason for 1994-1996 being more Y is because unless you add in the late '70s (which I'm very reluctant to do), Gen Y is just too small.  I mean, 1981-1993 is not long enough for a generation, even if we're talking about a cultural one.



I think they will be more Y especially '94ers since there already 12 but times changed quick. I dont think I have much in common with someone born in 1994 but I might have more in common with someone born 10-15 years before me.

Yeah, probably.  I think Boomers are 1946-1963, but early '40s is borderline.  Gen X starts either 1964 or '65, I go with '64.


I go with '64, someone who didn't come of age until 1980 is not baby boom. Machinehead, I totally agree with that, but I think Gen Z will be free of some of Gen Y's pretensions and sh*t.

I go with '64, someone who didn't come of age until 1980 is not baby boom. Machinehead, I totally agree with that, but I think Gen Z will be free of some of Gen Y's pretensions and sh*t.



Me too. btw I also think Gen X started in '64 because like you guys said alot of famous Gen Xers were born that year.

I think they will be more Y especially '94ers since there already 12 but times changed quick. I dont think I have much in common with someone born in 1994 but I might have more in common with someone born 10-15 years before me.


IMO 1993's the last 100% Y year, since they'd be able to remember 1996, the last year of the Analog Age really well.

I'd say:

Core Y: 1986-1992, inclusive

Cusp:

1993: 85% Y, 15% Z (almost core, but not quite)
1994: 65% Y, 35% Z (Clearly Y, but with a major Z element of not knowing pre-1997 times at all)
1995: 55% Y, 45% Z (Cuspy, but leaning to Y for cultural reasons.  They would probably know 2004 like yesterday)
1996: 51% Y, 49% Z (Very cuspy.  A tiny, tiny bit to Y)
1997: 45% Y, 55% Z (Cuspy, leaning to Z because they would only be 4 during 9/11 and probably wouldn't remember the New Millenium)
1998: 35% Y, 65% Z (Z, but with Y elements because of the '00s influence)
1999: 25% Y, 75% Z (ditto 1998)
2000: 15% Y, 85% Z
2001: 100% Z

I personally think the divide should be those born about 87-88. Those born afterwards would have never known a life without the internet, mobile phones, ipods, being able to walk around freely on the streets without your parents worrying about safety. I don't think I have much in common with the kid's of today at all; now they have Harry Potter, Anime, and mp3 players. It seems in my 'generation' life was simpler, and you were a kid for longer. The change about around the late 90s...

I personally think the divide should be those born about 87-88. Those born afterwards would have never known a life without the internet, mobile phones, ipods, being able to walk around freely on the streets without your parents worrying about safety. I don't think I have much in common with the kid's of today at all; now they have Harry Potter, Anime, and mp3 players. It seems in my 'generation' life was simpler, and you were a kid for longer. The change about around the late 90s...


I would have to disagree.  Ipods came out in 2001, and cell phones weren't really essential until the early '00s.  I'd put the line more at 1992 or 1993.

I'm really talking about kids in the 8-12 year old range. You, for example, were born in 1990 so by the time 3D games had become mainstream (about 96-97) you would have been only 6-7, hence on the young side to play the old '2D' games. So you probably don't remember a time when the SNES and VCR were the principle forms of entertainment. lol.

I'm really talking about kids in the 8-12 year old range. You, for example, were born in 1990 so by the time 3D games had become mainstream (about 96-97) you would have been only 6-7, hence on the young side to play the old '2D' games. So you probably don't remember a time when the SNES and VCR were the principle forms of entertainment. lol.


Yeah I'd agree for video games, but not DVDs.  But I guess I've never been a huge video game person, so it doesn't really matter that much.  I do remember the PlayStation and Nintendo commercials of the mid-to-late nineties, but yeah I can't honestly grasp the 2D era.

Music to me is CDs (although I am familiar with cassettes), but movies aren't DVDs to me, or at least they weren't for the first 10-12 years of my life.  I am not a child of the DVD, they weren't beginning to become popular until 1999; before then I knew only the VHS.  Even today, I'm still as comfortable with a VHS deck.

Just face it, Donnie Darko, you're not like us!  ;)

Yeah I'd agree for video games, but not DVDs.  But I guess I've never been a huge video game person, so it doesn't really matter that much.  I do remember the PlayStation and Nintendo commercials of the mid-to-late nineties, but yeah I can't honestly grasp the 2D era.

Music to me is CDs (although I am familiar with cassettes), but movies aren't DVDs to me, or at least they weren't for the first 10-12 years of my life.  I am not a child of the DVD, they weren't beginning to become popular until 1999; before then I knew only the VHS.  Even today, I'm still as comfortable with a VHS deck.



Yeah the dvd didnt become really popular until really 2000 when the PS2 came out and made dvd sales go through the roof. dvd didnt overtake vhs fully until 2001. As far as video games go the first 3 video games systems I got were 2D.

Just face it, Donnie Darko, you're not like us!  ;)


I'm only four years younger than you :)

By 1999, DVD players/DVDs were very prevalent and it was clear that VHS was on the way out, though VHS did remain the most popular format until 2002 or so. I've had so many game systems over the years that it's crazy. My first video game system was a SNES in 1992. In 1994 I got a Genesis CDX, which is a Genesis with a built in Sega CD, it's also a portable CD player, I still have it today. I had a game boy, and a game gear. I had a Virtual Boy as well which I got in 1995, I still have that too. I got Playstation in '96, and traded it in (along with my 15 games) for a Dreamcast the day it came out. Did I mention I had a Saturn as well, lol.

By 1999, DVD players/DVDs were very prevalent and it was clear that VHS was on the way out, though VHS did remain the most popular format until 2002 or so. I've had so many game systems over the years that it's crazy. My first video game system was a SNES in 1992. In 1994 I got a Genesis CDX, which is a Genesis with a built in Sega CD, it's also a portable CD player, I still have it today. I had a game boy, and a game gear. I had a Virtual Boy as well which I got in 1995, I still have that too. I got Playstation in '96, and traded it in (along with my 15 games) for a Dreamcast the day it came out. Did I mention I had a Saturn as well, lol.


Yeah, while it definitely was alot faster than CD's replacing tapes, it still took a few years to really pick up. Laserdiscs were around a bit in, like 1992-94 (at the time I thought they were pretty cool and hi-tech looking, but didn't really anticipate them replacing VHS - which of course, they didn't), but didn't last.

1997 was when I first heard of DVD's. They started becoming household by '99, but I wouldn't say they started becoming "essential" until 2002/03ish. So, by that logic, a 5 year old kid who paid reasonable attention to stuff at the time (born 1998) could still claim to VHS were at the tail end of "their time".

A 1995-er or before who wasn't living under a rock would clearly recall it too.

Like I've said before, I think age 6-7 is clearly the beginning of when you can remember stuff perfectly. So just take off that number of years before something, and there's at least a chance those people will remember it (i.e. audiotapes declined notably in about '98 so a 1991/92-er could still remember them or possibly even owned a few).

Audio casettes occupied a small corner in music stores by 96/97...another thing that's been wiped out really fast are floppy discs. A mere four years ago or so floppy disks seem to disappear overnight.

Audio casettes occupied a small corner in music stores by 96/97...another thing that's been wiped out really fast are floppy discs. A mere four years ago or so floppy disks seem to disappear overnight.


Yeah, they're just about gone. Floppy Drives have disappeared from most new computers in the last couple years. Some Floppy Disks are still available, but nobody uses them anymore with thumb drives and CD-RW. Theres still a few casette tapes around as well, Wal Mart has a really small area with a few casettes over here, but they're pretty much gone.

I personally don't think the CD will die too soon, rather I think it will evolve with the technology in the years to come therefore I don't expect them to be obsolete when Gen Z becomes of age.

I would have to disagree.  Ipods came out in 2001, and cell phones weren't really essential until the early '00s.  I'd put the line more at 1992 or 1993.


I agree...I was not born with an iPod in my ears! Those things didn't become popular until I was 14, cell phones weren't essential until I was 12 or so, I never went on the internet until I was 7, VHS was the main form of entertainment until I was 12 though I first saw a DVD at 10, etc.

I personally think the divide should be those born about 87-88. Those born afterwards would have never known a life without the internet, mobile phones, ipods, being able to walk around freely on the streets without your parents worrying about safety. I don't think I have much in common with the kid's of today at all; now they have Harry Potter, Anime, and mp3 players. It seems in my 'generation' life was simpler, and you were a kid for longer. The change about around the late 90s...



I think that just because someone born 89+ would have been fairly young when dvd, ipods, internet, cell phones, etc. became essential dosent mean they cant remember a time before they were. Someone born in say 1990 would have already been about 11/12 years old before dvd became essential. Same with the internet ipods and cell phones as well which have only been absolute nessesities since the begining of this decade.

Yeah, while it definitely was alot faster than CD's replacing tapes, it still took a few years to really pick up. Laserdiscs were around a bit in, like 1992-94 (at the time I thought they were pretty cool and hi-tech looking, but didn't really anticipate them replacing VHS - which of course, they didn't), but didn't last.

1997 was when I first heard of DVD's. They started becoming household by '99, but I wouldn't say they started becoming "essential" until 2002/03ish. So, by that logic, a 5 year old kid who paid reasonable attention to stuff at the time (born 1998) could still claim to VHS were at the tail end of "their time".

A 1995-er or before who wasn't living under a rock would clearly recall it too.

Like I've said before, I think age 6-7 is clearly the beginning of when you can remember stuff perfectly. So just take off that number of years before something, and there's at least a chance those people will remember it (i.e. audiotapes declined notably in about '98 so a 1991/92-er could still remember them or possibly even owned a few).


So would you say 1996 and up are the "children of the DVD"?  That makes sense to me, however I think a 1994er or 1995er could be a DVD child if they had a really awful memory.  1993 and earlier is VHS (and also firmly Y, although 1993 is just the tiniest bit cuspy with Z).

I think that just because someone born 89+ would have been fairly young when dvd, ipods, internet, cell phones, etc. became essential dosent mean they cant remember a time before they were. Someone born in say 1990 would have already been about 11/12 years old before dvd became essential. Same with the internet ipods and cell phones as well which have only been absolute nessesities since the begining of this decade.


Yeah, I mean there's a difference between first using something when you were 8-13 years old and being born under it.  Some incorrectly equate the two; it's not like late Gen Yers from the 1989-1993 period do not remember the pre-digital era of the late '90s and early '00s at all.  Although my clear memory does begin c. 1997, I can faintly remember back to 1993 or 1994 I'm pretty sure.

So would you say 1996 and up are the "children of the DVD"?  That makes sense to me, however I think a 1994er or 1995er could be a DVD child if they had a really awful memory.  1993 and earlier is VHS (and also firmly Y, although 1993 is just the tiniest bit cuspy with Z).

I was born in 89 and I'm hybrid. I have a lot of DVD's and a lot of VHS. But still, I think everyone should still have at least 1 VCR. You never know when it could come in handy.

Yeah, I mean there's a difference between first using something when you were 8-13 years old and being born under it.  Some incorrectly equate the two; it's not like late Gen Yers from the 1989-1993 period do not remember the pre-digital era of the late '90s and early '00s at all.  Although my clear memory does begin c. 1997, I can faintly remember back to 1993 or 1994 I'm pretty sure.



Yeah to not remember a time before vhs was essential you coulnt have been any older than 5 or 6 in 2001.

Yeah to not remember a time before vhs was essential you coulnt have been any older than 5 or 6 in 2001.


Agreed.

Maybe 1996 is the first Z year.  I want to say 1997, since I kind of think of it as a "magic year", but perhaps 1996 makes more sense as the beginning of Z.

Still though, I tend to consider Gen Y to be 1981-1996.

Agreed.

Maybe 1996 is the first Z year.  I want to say 1997, since I kind of think of it as a "magic year", but perhaps 1996 makes more sense as the beginning of Z.

Still though, I tend to consider Gen Y to be 1981-1996.



Me too. The farthest I'd go would be to put '96 on the Y/Z cusp. I still say 1997 is the first year that will be pure Z.

Me too. The farthest I'd go would be to put '96 on the Y/Z cusp. I still say 1997 is the first year that will be pure Z.


Where would you say Y becomes more Z?  I think 1993/'94-1999 is the entire cusp, but I see 1995 or '96 as the last year that's on the Y side.  But, 1993-1996 would all have a "gateway" to Z, although I think 1994 is the first Y year that's more like Z than X. 

Really, the kids of the early 1990s STILL have an Xish vibe to them all Yers have.  It's not until you get into the mid 1990s births that we start to encounter youths that are not Xy at all.

Where would you say Y becomes more Z?  I think 1993/'94-1999 is the entire cusp, but I see 1995 or '96 as the last year that's on the Y side.  But, 1993-1996 would all have a "gateway" to Z, although I think 1994 is the first Y year that's more like Z than X. 

Really, the kids of the early 1990s STILL have an Xish vibe to them all Yers have.  It's not until you get into the mid 1990s births that we start to encounter youths that are not Xy at all.



I think that 1995 is the first Y year that's more Z. I would say '94 but there 12 now and probably tilted slighty more Y but once you get to '95+ I think there more Z.

I think that 1995 is the first Y year that's more Z. I would say '94 but there 12 now and probably tilted slighty more Y but once you get to '95+ I think there more Z.


Yeah, you're probably right.  1995ers do seem kind of clueless on the late 1990s.  I'd still say Y ends in 1996 though, because the late '70s people seem more Xy to me since their years would be the early 1990s which are a very Gen Xy time.

But yeah, "indisputable" Gen Y is 1986-1992, inclusive.  I would probably say 1983-1985 and 1993 are also almost purely Y.  1994 is really borderline, but people like Dakota Fanning seem to be more the end of my generation than the beginning of the next.

Yeah, you're probably right.  1995ers do seem kind of clueless on the late 1990s.  I'd still say Y ends in 1996 though, because the late '70s people seem more Xy to me since their years would be the early 1990s which are a very Gen Xy time.

But yeah, "indisputable" Gen Y is 1986-1992, inclusive.  I would probably say 1983-1985 and 1993 are also almost purely Y.  1994 is really borderline, but people like Dakota Fanning seem to be more the end of my generation than the beginning of the next.



It's too bad no 1994ers or 1995ers come onto the site so we can see how they really feel. Maybe we could get some answers then ;)

It's too bad no 1994ers or 1995ers come onto the site so we can see how they really feel. Maybe we could get some answers then ;)


Yeah.

Do they use the Internet?  ;D

Yeah.

Do they use the Internet?  ;D


Yeah, but they're too busy on Nick.com or Disney.com, lol.

Yeah, but they're too busy on Nick.com or Disney.com, lol.


;D

Yeah, but they're too busy on Nick.com or Disney.com, lol.



Too true. Maybe they'll stumble across it one day though. Then it's on ;)

Too true. Maybe they'll stumble across it one day though. Then it's on ;)


2008 is when they'll start to pour in.

Then, maybe we can judge if the 1994-96 crowd is more Y or Z better. 

Wouldn't you say 1993 is the last solid Y year?

2008 is when they'll start to pour in.

Then, maybe we can judge if the 1994-96 crowd is more Y or Z better. 

Wouldn't you say 1993 is the last solid Y year?



Yep '93 is the last year that I consider 100% Y. They'll turn 13 this year so they'll get at least 4 years of 00's credit as a teen.

Yep '93 is the last year that I consider 100% Y. They'll turn 13 this year so they'll get at least 4 years of 00's credit as a teen.


I think 1986-1993 is 100% Y.  The XY cusp is freaking huge, like 1976 to 1985 huge.

I think 1986-1993 is 100% Y.  The XY cusp is freaking huge, like 1976 to 1985 huge.



Yeah the Y/Z cusp will be alot smaller probably of the similaities between X and Y.

Yeah the Y/Z cusp will be alot smaller probably of the similaities between X and Y.


Arguably, 1965 to 1994 is a "mega-generation".  As crazy as it sounds, even as a 1990er the people born in the 1970s don't seem like a fully different generation from myself.  A 2000er would probably see a 1990er as more distant than I would see a 1975er.

Arguably, 1965 to 1994 is a "mega-generation".  As crazy as it sounds, even as a 1990er the people born in the 1970s don't seem like a fully different generation from myself.  A 2000er would probably see a 1990er as more distant than I would see a 1975er.


You're totally right about that, I like alot of things said since I last posted in this conversation. We really are sort of a mega-late 20th century generation who came of age during the early years of the digital age, when it was/is still a new thing. By the 2010s, I don't think people will be as into new tech like cell phones, iPods, etc., they're all going to be pretty standard. The cool Z thing will probably be moving away from tech, since it dominates their lives so much. And we, born in 1990, are probably more similar to somebody born in 1975 than somebody born in 1997, the gap is so sudden. The only other gap so sudden was between people born in the 1880s and people born after the early 1890s-these people grew up to be the "Lost Generation." They were utterly disdainful of Victorian morals and society and went around dancing, drinking, smoking and believed in women's liberation, to a degree, anyway, and were less racist-unthinkable by Victorian standards. They only remembered the electric world of the early 20th century and had no conception of a time when gas lamps and horses were the standard method of transportation, and when there were no cars, trains, airplanes, electric lights, movies, etc. World War I is what partially did this, but I think they were the first "modern" generation. The difference between them and the generation before them is probably even more strikingly different than that between XY and Z.

I do agree that 1993 is the last totally Y year, 1994 is about equal parts Y and Z, maybe, 1995 is more Z than Y, and 1996 is much more Z than Y. The only reason 1993 is a tiny bit cuspy is that they wouldn't remember alot of early-mid '90s kiddie culture things except through reruns or later viewings, like the 1989-1995 classic run of Disney movies.

You're totally right about that, I like alot of things said since I last posted in this conversation. We really are sort of a mega-late 20th century generation who came of age during the early years of the digital age, when it was/is still a new thing. By the 2010s, I don't think people will be as into new tech like cell phones, iPods, etc., they're all going to be pretty standard. The cool Z thing will probably be moving away from tech, since it dominates their lives so much. And we, born in 1990, are probably more similar to somebody born in 1975 than somebody born in 1997, the gap is so sudden. The only other gap so sudden was between people born in the 1880s and people born after the early 1890s-these people grew up to be the "Lost Generation." They were utterly disdainful of Victorian morals and society and went around dancing, drinking, smoking and believed in women's liberation, to a degree, anyway, and were less racist-unthinkable by Victorian standards. They only remembered the electric world of the early 20th century and had no conception of a time when gas lamps and horses were the standard method of transportation, and when there were no cars, trains, airplanes, electric lights, movies, etc. World War I is what partially did this, but I think they were the first "modern" generation. The difference between them and the generation before them is probably even more strikingly different than that between XY and Z.

I do agree that 1993 is the last totally Y year, 1994 is about equal parts Y and Z, maybe, 1995 is more Z than Y, and 1996 is much more Z than Y. The only reason 1993 is a tiny bit cuspy is that they wouldn't remember alot of early-mid '90s kiddie culture things except through reruns or later viewings, like the 1989-1995 classic run of Disney movies.


I don't see 1994 as being equally Z; like I said it's the tail-end of Y.  They would have been 5 in 1999, old enough to have gotten into the boyband culture and to have been familiar with cassettes.  1995 is really cuspy though, but the reason I put 1996 as the last year of Y is because they would remember 1999 and might somewhat understand 9/11.  But 1994 and 1995 make equally as much sense for the end of Y, since '93ers are the youngest people who could totally appreciate the digital revolution of the Clinton era. Plus, they could faintly remember 1996, and us '90ers can faintly remember 1993, which isn't a huge difference from 1996 the way 1998 is.  A 1994er's memory would begin in 1996 or more likely '97, so they'd just barely be able to remember the very end of the pre-Internet/MP3/Cell Phone era. 1995 and 1996 are probably culturally more Y, but with the same world view as Z. 1997-1999 is definitely Z, but with some Y influence.

You're totally right about that, I like alot of things said since I last posted in this conversation. We really are sort of a mega-late 20th century generation who came of age during the early years of the digital age, when it was/is still a new thing. By the 2010s, I don't think people will be as into new tech like cell phones, iPods, etc., they're all going to be pretty standard. The cool Z thing will probably be moving away from tech, since it dominates their lives so much. And we, born in 1990, are probably more similar to somebody born in 1975 than somebody born in 1997, the gap is so sudden. The only other gap so sudden was between people born in the 1880s and people born after the early 1890s-these people grew up to be the "Lost Generation." They were utterly disdainful of Victorian morals and society and went around dancing, drinking, smoking and believed in women's liberation, to a degree, anyway, and were less racist-unthinkable by Victorian standards. They only remembered the electric world of the early 20th century and had no conception of a time when gas lamps and horses were the standard method of transportation, and when there were no cars, trains, airplanes, electric lights, movies, etc. World War I is what partially did this, but I think they were the first "modern" generation. The difference between them and the generation before them is probably even more strikingly different than that between XY and



Good stuff velvetoneo ;). Very true though. Someone born in 1895 would have turned 20 in a very different time than someone born even up to 1890. Kind of like how kids today born up to the mid-90's have no memories of the 20th century or the pre-digital days. Someone born in 1895 would have grown up in the 1900's/1910's were the things you mentioned were standard and the same can be said for a modern 1995er with today's technology.

Good stuff velvetoneo ;). Very true though. Someone born in 1895 would have turned 20 in a very different time than someone born even up to 1890. Kind of like how kids today born up to the mid-90's have no memories of the 20th century or the pre-digital days. Someone born in 1895 would have grown up in the 1900's/1910's were the things you mentioned were standard and the same can be said for a modern 1995er with today's technology.


Yeah, it was very well written.

I wonder what's a bigger gap: 1895 to 1915 or 1995 to 2015?  I guess we'll just have to see.

Yeah, it was very well written.

I wonder what's a bigger gap: 1895 to 1915 or 1995 to 2015?  I guess we'll just have to see.




Unless there a major change between now and then I'd lean toward 1895-1915 but like you said we'll have to wait and see.

^I agree.

I would say Y is made of these factions:

Fall 1977 - Summer 1981 - XY Cusp

Too young for the X '80s, too old for the Y '00s, just right for the XY '90s. 

Fall 1981 - Summer 1985 - Cold Y

Old enough to vaguely remember the '80s atmosphere, but a bit too young to have gotten into the early '90s pop culture for the most part.  The younger members of this bracket likely got into the boyband culture of the late 1990s.

Fall 1985 - Summer 1989 - Hipster Bracket

The most stereotypical Ys, carrying their iPods, calling things they don't like "Retarded", watching "South Park" and collecting friends on MySpace.  The prime age for the boyband and numetal cultures, which they may have abandoned later for Emo and glam rap.

Fall 1989 - Summer 1993 - Anti-Y

Similar to the Hipster Bracket, but generally a bit more skeptical of Y culture.  The entertainers of Z.

Fall 1993 - Summer 1996 - Early X/Y Cusp

Born under a computer, but still culturally Y in many ways.  They also might remember the fuss of Ipods and blogs, etc. vaguely, so wouldn't be totally immersed in a digital world.

^I agree.

I would say Y is made of these factions:

Fall 1977 - Summer 1981 - XY Cusp

Too young for the X '80s, too old for the Y '00s, just right for the XY '90s. 

Fall 1981 - Summer 1985 - Cold Y

Old enough to vaguely remember the '80s atmosphere, but a bit too young to have gotten into the early '90s pop culture for the most part.  The younger members of this bracket likely got into the boyband culture of the late 1990s.

Fall 1985 - Summer 1989 - Hipster Bracket

The most stereotypical Ys, carrying their iPods, calling things they don't like "Retarded", watching "South Park" and collecting friends on MySpace.  The prime age for the boyband and numetal cultures, which they may have abandoned later for Emo and glam rap.

Fall 1989 - Summer 1993 - Anti-Y

Similar to the Hipster Bracket, but generally a bit more skeptical of Y culture.  The entertainers of Z.

Fall 1993 - Summer 1996 - Early X/Y Cusp

Born under a computer, but still culturally Y in many ways.  They also might remember the fuss of Ipods and blogs, etc. vaguely, so wouldn't be totally immersed in a digital world.




Very good analysis, pretty accurate.

Very good analysis, pretty accurate.


Anything you'd disagree with/expand upon?

Anything you'd disagree with/expand upon?


Well I'm not so sure on the anti-y thing, you know how many 13-15 year olds love hip-hop or emo and have it playing on their myspace thing, maybe even more than people my age do. I'd also probably push the beginning of the yz cusp to a slightly later date like maybe summer 1994 or so. The hipster bracket, I would probably include the latter half of 1984.

Well I'm not so sure on the anti-y thing, you know how many 13-15 year olds love hip-hop or emo and have it playing on their myspace thing, maybe even more than people my age do. I'd also probably push the beginning of the yz cusp to a slightly later date like maybe summer 1994 or so. The hipster bracket, I would probably include the latter half of 1984.


All those make sense.  Yeah, the '84ers do seem kind of hipster.

There're a ton of early-80s born hipsters, but they weren't teen hipsters, they became that way in college. As teenagers most of them were grunge or Weezer or Radiohead or R.E.M or Liz Phair fans in the '90s, they evolved into hipsters. They seemed pretty generic mid-late '90s kids in high school, some of them were even Phish hippies. I think alot of them switched from being goth or pop-punky or neo-hippies to being hipsters in college. I'd also say culturally the '94-'96ers are more equivalent to a '64-'66er, not culturally Y, but with heavy Y influences. Like they will have liked Y stuff but will probably be closer to a Zer culturally by college, or be the real pioneer Zers. Do you agree with me that teen rebellion for Zers in the 2010s might be rejecting the digital world, or trying to look beyond it to find other things to do? Things that are exciting and new now for Gen Yers will seem a bit old for us, like cable was exciting in the '80s but now it's standard. I think '90 is more of a crossover year, alot of us are still most definitely "hipsters" by far, but we also have many more types who are skeptical of the whole thing. Summer '90 on is probably a big jump in anti-Yness, though there's another big jump over summer '89. I definitely think there are less "hipsters" and emo people in the 8th grade (91-92) of my school and less people who find it cool than there were when I was in 8th grade (89-90).

There're a ton of early-80s born hipsters, but they weren't teen hipsters, they became that way in college. As teenagers most of them were grunge or Weezer or Radiohead or R.E.M or Liz Phair fans in the '90s, they evolved into hipsters. They seemed pretty generic mid-late '90s kids in high school, some of them were even Phish hippies. I think alot of them switched from being goth or pop-punky or neo-hippies to being hipsters in college. I'd also say culturally the '94-'96ers are more equivalent to a '64-'66er, not culturally Y, but with heavy Y influences. Like they will have liked Y stuff but will probably be closer to a Zer culturally by college, or be the real pioneer Zers. Do you agree with me that teen rebellion for Zers in the 2010s might be rejecting the digital world, or trying to look beyond it to find other things to do? Things that are exciting and new now for Gen Yers will seem a bit old for us, like cable was exciting in the '80s but now it's standard. I think '90 is more of a crossover year, alot of us are still most definitely "hipsters" by far, but we also have many more types who are skeptical of the whole thing. Summer '90 on is probably a big jump in anti-Yness, though there's another big jump over summer '89. I definitely think there are less "hipsters" and emo people in the 8th grade (91-92) of my school and less people who find it cool than there were when I was in 8th grade (89-90).


Oh, I totally agree about hipsters being a more late '80s-kid thing.  Although early '90s has tons of them, I think like 1988 is the absolute peak of the "emo kid" age.

As for the beginning of Z, you see I think a cultural generation is about 18, not 20, years, so I would push the forefront of Z to 1996/'97-2000 rather than 1994-1996.  The vibe I get from 1994-'96ers is more the end of a generation than the beginning of a new one, as alien as they seem to me.  They're more like us than a baby that was born yesterday.

I would say the 1994-1996 bracket doesn't share things with X the way pre-1994ers do, though, and will entertain Gen Z, so yeah they're partially Z.

I still don't buy the anti-y thing, it may exist but it's not exclusive to early '90s born kids. Maybe it's just because I live in the city, but I'm telling you most of the 13-15 year old kids here love hip-hop or emo, some won't listen to much anything else.

I still don't buy the anti-y thing, it may exist but it's not exclusive to early '90s born kids. Maybe it's just because I live in the city, but I'm telling you most of the 13-15 year old kids here love hip-hop or emo, some won't listen to much anything else.


Yeah, I guess you're right.  A lot of late '80s kids have that sentiment also.

Of course, being "Anti-Y" is in itself a very Gen Y thing.

Yeah, I guess you're right.  A lot of late '80s kids have that sentiment also.

Of course, being "Anti-Y" is in itself a very Gen Y thing.


Every generation has a small sect of anti- people, ones that don't like the typical tastes of the generation.

Oh, I totally agree about hipsters being a more late '80s-kid thing.  Although early '90s has tons of them, I think like 1988 is the absolute peak of the "emo kid" age.

As for the beginning of Z, you see I think a cultural generation is about 18, not 20, years, so I would push the forefront of Z to 1996/'97-2000 rather than 1994-1996.  The vibe I get from 1994-'96ers is more the end of a generation than the beginning of a new one, as alien as they seem to me.  They're more like us than a baby that was born yesterday.

I would say the 1994-1996 bracket doesn't share things with X the way pre-1994ers do, though, and will entertain Gen Z, so yeah they're partially Z.


I think that '95 and '96 will probably be more Zish years, though. More Y, certainly. But definitely more Zish...they already seem pretty different from the way we were as kids. 1994 is a toss-up.

From my knowledge, mid '80s people seem the most pro-Y, though they're less emo...particularly '86-'89s. Maybe '94-'96ers will be like '64-'66ers in that alot of them will be pretty Yish the way alot of them were sort of boomerish but not end up identifying with them later in life, starting in college or towards the older end of high school. I don't think a generation can really have a standardized number of years, culturally, anyway. The late '70s definitely had a ton of anti-X people, I know that for a fact, they were the ones who started alot of Y culture. I think alot of the people who ended up loving grunge were people born in the mid-70s who never liked the whole X thing very much, and despised hair metal and synth pop.

Every generation has a small sect of anti- people, ones that don't like the typical tastes of the generation.

Like me. I don't ever listen to current new hip music or anything like that.

Like me. I don't ever listen to current new hip music or anything like that.


I'm basically exactly the same way. I think of the anti-boomers as being people like Frank Black, Michael Stipe, Chuck Pahlaniuk, Thurston Moore, etc. who were later boomers and then later laid the ground for Generation X in the '80s underground scene they created. I also suppose the original punk rockers and people like David Byrne could be considered anti-boomer. However, Madonna, MJ, and Prince, while influential on X, are pretty clearly boomers in personality and just reinvented their influences into something new.

Velvetoneo, you may be right. 1993ers do seem like the youngest people to share in experience of a pre-digital world, as they would remember back to 1996 or so. 1998 is the analog/digital line; it was around then that the DVD, MP3 file and digital camera began to become prevalent.  A 1994er would be only 4 in 1998 when these things were debuting, even if they were not as essential then as now.  But I would still consider them Y, unless you decided to count late '70s as Y also which I'm really reluctant to do since they're the prime '90s people and the '90s is more X than Y (although in recent years it's probably become seen as more Yish as people in 2006 like a lot of the exact same stuff people did in 1996).

If there's a '00s backlash in the '10s, say in 2012, when a 1995er is 16/17 years old I could see them becoming a different faction.  I'm still leaning a little more towards '97 for the beginning of Z, but '95 may be the actual start also.  It really depends on what happens in the next decade or so.

Velvetoneo, you may be right. 1993ers do seem like the youngest people to share in experience of a pre-digital world, as they would remember back to 1996 or so. 1998 is the analog/digital line; it was around then that the DVD, MP3 file and digital camera began to become prevalent.  A 1994er would be only 4 in 1998 when these things were debuting, even if they were not as essential then as now.  But I would still consider them Y, unless you decided to count late '70s as Y also which I'm really reluctant to do since they're the prime '90s people and the '90s is more X than Y (although in recent years it's probably become seen as more Yish as people in 2006 like a lot of the exact same stuff people did in 1996).

If there's a '00s backlash in the '10s, say in 2012, when a 1995er is 16/17 years old I could see them becoming a different faction.  I'm still leaning a little more towards '97 for the beginning of Z, but '95 may be the actual start also.  It really depends on what happens in the next decade or so.


Yeah, it's really hard to tell. I mean, personally, I don't think you can draw the lines on generations based on them being a certain length. I think it evens out the lengths of both Generations X and Y if you include the late '70s as part of both. X and Y, which you've definitely clued me onto, together seem like one big generation without such strongly marked boundaries and lots of little subdivisions. I think you could probably put the start date between 1994 and 1997 for Gen Z, somewhere in the mid-'90s. The '70s backlash in '82 made '65ers a different generation, if this really happens in '11 or '12 in the '10s as we both predict, it would make '95ers a different generation. I think overall they'll be less fascinated with and more trying to get away from tech than Gen Yers, that'll be a major line.

A sort of modified boundary list.

1946-1963 (The Baby Boomers)
-1946-1953 (Flower Power Generation)
-1954-1958 (The Disco Generation)
-1959-1963 (The Late Boomers)
1964-1980 (Generation X)
-1966-1973 (Brat Packers)
1977ish-1993 (Generation Y)-Late '70s shared between the two as transition between two subsets of a mega-generation.
-1984-1990 (9/11 Generation)
1994-2010ish (Generation Z)

Yeah, it's really hard to tell. I mean, personally, I don't think you can draw the lines on generations based on them being a certain length. I think it evens out the lengths of both Generations X and Y if you include the late '70s as part of both. X and Y, which you've definitely clued me onto, together seem like one big generation without such strongly marked boundaries and lots of little subdivisions. I think you could probably put the start date between 1994 and 1997 for Gen Z, somewhere in the mid-'90s. The '70s backlash in '82 made '65ers a different generation, if this really happens in '11 or '12 in the '10s as we both predict, it would make '95ers a different generation. I think overall they'll be less fascinated with and more trying to get away from tech than Gen Yers, that'll be a major line.

A sort of modified boundary list.

1946-1963 (The Baby Boomers)
-1946-1953 (Flower Power Generation)
-1954-1958 (The Disco Generation)
-1959-1963 (The Late Boomers)
1964-1980 (Generation X)
-1966-1973 (Brat Packers)
1977ish-1993 (Generation Y)-Late '70s shared between the two as transition between two subsets of a mega-generation.
-1984-1990 (9/11 Generation)
1994-2010ish (Generation Z)



Very accurate, I like how you divided the Boomers.  There seems to be three classes of Boomers, the '50s/'60s boomers, the '70s boomers, and the '70s and early '80s boomers.  But they all remember the sixties.
However, I would extend the 9/11 Generation to 1992 or so.  I remember the Princess Di thing, and I wasn't even 8 yet.  That was less of a big deal than 9/11, although it was quite a story!

^I agree.

I would say Y is made of these factions:

Fall 1977 - Summer 1981 - XY Cusp

Too young for the X '80s, too old for the Y '00s, just right for the XY '90s. 

Fall 1981 - Summer 1985 - Cold Y

Old enough to vaguely remember the '80s atmosphere, but a bit too young to have gotten into the early '90s pop culture for the most part.  The younger members of this bracket likely got into the boyband culture of the late 1990s.

Fall 1985 - Summer 1989 - Hipster Bracket

The most stereotypical Ys, carrying their iPods, calling things they don't like "Retarded", watching "South Park" and collecting friends on MySpace.  The prime age for the boyband and numetal cultures, which they may have abandoned later for Emo and glam rap.

Fall 1989 - Summer 1993 - Anti-Y

Similar to the Hipster Bracket, but generally a bit more skeptical of Y culture.  The entertainers of Z.

Fall 1993 - Summer 1996 - Early X/Y Cusp

Born under a computer, but still culturally Y in many ways.  They also might remember the fuss of Ipods and blogs, etc. vaguely, so wouldn't be totally immersed in a digital world.



I totally agree. Especially with the fall '85-summer '89 being the stereotypical Ys since that was when I was born and almost everybody I went to school with was totally immersed in the Y culutre. Im not really sure just how anti-Y the '89-'93 crowd is because I've never really talked to anybody born in that time except the guys on this site and my little brother(born '91) both of whom are very anti-Y so I guess its true.

I totally agree. Especially with the fall '85-summer '89 being the stereotypical Ys since that was when I was born and almost everybody I went to school with was totally immersed in the Y culutre. Im not really sure just how anti-Y the '89-'93 crowd is because I've never really talked to anybody born in that time except the guys on this site and my little brother(born '91) both of whom are very anti-Y so I guess its true.


I was just admiring my work  ;D

Yeah, Fall '89 - Summer '93 IMO is just as much Y.  But, I consider them to be younger Ys, although not quite tail-end; the late '80s is really the peak of Gen Y.  As for anti-Y sentiment, I'm not totally sure which side of the Emo generation has more - they both have quite a bit I guess.  But like I've said, being "Anti-Y" is very Gen Y in itself.  In fact, there's nothing more Y than not liking Gen Y  ;D

I was just admiring my work  ;D

Yeah, Fall '89 - Summer '93 IMO is just as much Y.  But, I consider them to be younger Ys, although not quite tail-end; the late '80s is really the peak of Gen Y.  As for anti-Y sentiment, I'm not totally sure which side of the Emo generation has more - they both have quite a bit I guess.  But like I've said, being "Anti-Y" is very Gen Y in itself.  In fact, there's nothing more Y than not liking Gen Y  ;D


lol. Emo is very prevalent in gen y right now, I'd say most of the kids at my high school were emo. I personally think the whole emo thing is pretty dumb, even though I like some emo songs.

lol. Emo is very prevalent in gen y right now, I'd say most of the kids at my high school were emo. I personally think the whole emo thing is pretty dumb, even though I like some emo songs.


I agree.

I'm amazed at how prevalent the Emo thing is.  Do you think in subsequent decades, this will become the Emo Decade the way the '70s is the Disco/Funk Era, the '80s is the New Wave/hair metal era and the '90s is the Grunge/Gangsta rap era?

I agree.

I'm amazed at how prevalent the Emo thing is.  Do you think in subsequent decades, this will become the Emo Decade the way the '70s is the Disco/Funk Era, the '80s is the New Wave/hair metal era and the '90s is the Grunge/Gangsta rap era?



The emo/glam rap decade ;D

I agree.

I'm amazed at how prevalent the Emo thing is.  Do you think in subsequent decades, this will become the Emo Decade the way the '70s is the Disco/Funk Era, the '80s is the New Wave/hair metal era and the '90s is the Grunge/Gangsta rap era?


It will be remembered as the emo/glam rap decade. Basically there's two crowds right now the emo people and the hip-hop people.

The emo/glam rap decade ;D


;D

Would you say numetal is more a late '90s thing?

;D

Would you say numetal is more a late '90s thing?



Yeah numetal is late 90's-Very early 2000's. But I think all rock from the 2000's will get lumped together and all get called emo 20 years from now.

;D

Would you say numetal is more a late '90s thing?


late '90s and early '00s, it was big until 2002 when emo took over.

It will be remembered as the emo/glam rap decade. Basically there's two crowds right now the emo people and the hip-hop people.


I think you're talking more to the ultra-mainstream music scene. I don't associate with any genre of music; I embrace all music I find aesthetically pleasing, stimulating, or moving. I must admit I'm not immune to labelling music I inherently dislike as, 'rubbish' or 'trashy music.' The thing about music, is that an 'anti-commercialism snobbishness' has arisen. I don't know much about music and society at all. I rarely read the music-related press (I find it's just propoganda for gushing over the 'hottest new things', and they seem to love Franz Ferdinand and Coldplay for some reason). Any genre of music is associated with a lifestyle, or a certain 'type of person' which is as much a stereotype as ever. I think this is the overacching theme of the 90s and 00s.

I think that just because someone born 89+ would have been fairly young when dvd, ipods, internet, cell phones, etc. became essential dosent mean they cant remember a time before they were. Someone born in say 1990 would have already been about 11/12 years old before dvd became essential. Same with the internet ipods and cell phones as well which have only been absolute nessesities since the begining of this decade.


When I was 7 the World Wide Web (what most of us know as 'the internet') barely existed...lol

I think you're talking more to the ultra-mainstream music scene. I don't associate with any genre of music; I embrace all music I find aesthetically pleasing, stimulating, or moving. I must admit I'm not immune to labelling music I inherently dislike as, 'rubbish' or 'trashy music.' The thing about music, is that an 'anti-commercialism snobbishness' has arisen. I don't know much about music and society at all. I rarely read the music-related press (I find it's just propoganda for gushing over the 'hottest new things', and they seem to love Franz Ferdinand and Coldplay for some reason). Any genre of music is associated with a lifestyle, or a certain 'type of person' which is as much a stereotype as ever. I think this is the overacching theme of the 90s and 00s.


Yeah I was talking in very general terms. I am the same way in that I don't associate with any particular genre, I will listen to anything that I think sounds good.

When I was 7 the World Wide Web (what most of us know as 'the internet') barely existed...lol


Are you an '86er?

Yeah, but just because it existed doesn't mean it was commonplace.  The Internet (although not the WWW), cell phones, computers, CDs, etc. all existed in the 1980s, but generally weren't commonplace.  Just like the World Wide Web, DVD, MP3 player and Broadband internet existed in the '90s, but weren't commonplace until the late '90s or '00s.

When I was 7 the World Wide Web (what most of us know as 'the internet') barely existed...lol



I know what you mean. I didnt even have internet acess here at home until I was a teenager so I had to go my entire childhood without it. Could you imagine your average kid going without it today? ;D

Are you an '86er?

Yeah, but just because it existed doesn't mean it was commonplace.  The Internet (although not the WWW), cell phones, computers, CDs, etc. all existed in the 1980s, but generally weren't commonplace.  Just like the World Wide Web, DVD, MP3 player and Broadband internet existed in the '90s, but weren't commonplace until the late '90s or '00s.



You know maybe the 80's aren't as far away from the 00's technologically as I thought. I mean most of the stuff we use daily today was around in the 80's just in a more primitive form like the internet, cell phones, computers and the like.

Yep, the '80s aren't as big a jump to the '00s as the 1890s were to the 1910s, or the 1900s to the 1920s. THAT was the big transition, whoa.

I think the mid-'90s people will grow up totally understanding and getting Y culture like mid-'60s people totally understood boomer culture, but their less detailed memories of the zeitgeist of the period as a whole will make them feel alienated from it and reject it for the culture of people from the late '90s, and they'll end up considering themselves more Z for that. Also, again, there's the tech division.

Thanks for agreeing with my boomer subdivision! The first one (1946-1953) was the '60s generation, people who remember when LSD was hip, might've been drafted for Vietnam, moved to San Francisco, and participated in war protests. The next (1954-1958) totally got and remembered everything about the '60s in every way, but they were too young to participate in the real '60s and mostly came of age under Nixon and Ford. They also became the core group of yuppies, embracing the '60s on the surface but neglectful of their true principles, and were the main "partiers" of the late '70s, going to discos and clubs like CBGB, and kept the coke market afloat through the '80s. The last ones remembered the '60s, but didn't have even as much first hand experience as the '54-'58ers...they mostly came of age in the '70s and very early '80s before they were the '80s, but were still totally boomers, and many of them yuppies.

My classification of the 9/11 generation was people who were adolescent (6th-12th grade) during 9/11.

Yep, the '80s aren't as big a jump to the '00s as the 1890s were to the 1910s, or the 1900s to the 1920s. THAT was the big transition, whoa.

I think the mid-'90s people will grow up totally understanding and getting Y culture like mid-'60s people totally understood boomer culture, but their less detailed memories of the zeitgeist of the period as a whole will make them feel alienated from it and reject it for the culture of people from the late '90s, and they'll end up considering themselves more Z for that. Also, again, there's the tech division.

Thanks for agreeing with my boomer subdivision! The first one (1946-1953) was the '60s generation, people who remember when LSD was hip, might've been drafted for Vietnam, moved to San Francisco, and participated in war protests. The next (1954-1958) totally got and remembered everything about the '60s in every way, but they were too young to participate in the real '60s and mostly came of age under Nixon and Ford. They also became the core group of yuppies, embracing the '60s on the surface but neglectful of their true principles, and were the main "partiers" of the late '70s, going to discos and clubs like CBGB, and kept the coke market afloat through the '80s. The last ones remembered the '60s, but didn't have even as much first hand experience as the '54-'58ers...they mostly came of age in the '70s and very early '80s before they were the '80s, but were still totally boomers, and many of them yuppies.

My classification of the 9/11 generation was people who were adolescent (6th-12th grade) during 9/11.


Ah, I see about the 9/11 thing.

As for the tech divide, well let's do the math.  1998 is more or less the year we entered the Digital Age, as opposed from the transitional period of 1982-1997 into it.

So, if people can remember back to when they were 3-5 we could safety say someone born in 1992 and probably someone born in 1993 could remember before 1998 well enough to know VHS rental, cassette recording, a primitive Internet, etc.  A 1994er could not, but considering they're 11-12 this year they could get into the popular culture of this time, and plus would be at least be alive during most of the tech boom of the nineties.

So yeah, if a Gen Y is described as a transitional (which I think they should be), and considering 1995 up is not really transitional, yeah 1994-1996 would be YZ cusp, but like I've said it depends on whether they uphold or reject the current popular culture of people our age (1986-1993 born).  Which is likely, so I'd say somewhere between 1995 and 1997 is the van guard year of Z.  I kind of like the idea of having 1994 as the last year, since that would make the first half of the '90s Y and the second half Z; there's definitely a much larger difference between a 1990er and a 2000er than there is between a 1980er and a 1990er.

there's definitely a much larger difference between a 1990er and a 2000er than there is between a 1980er and a 1990er.



Isnt that strange? It's like the difference between a 1977er and 1987er and a 1997er and a 1987er. My older cousin whose '77 born has alot of the same intrests and view that I do(we both love Nirvana). But my younger cousin whose '97/'98? born is like a polar oppsite to me. That's what leads me to belive there's a generation gap there.

Isnt that strange? It's like the difference between a 1977er and 1987er and a 1997er and a 1987er. My older cousin whose '77 born has alot of the same intrests and view that I do(we both love Nirvana). But my younger cousin whose '97/'98? born is like a polar oppsite to me. That's what leads me to belive there's a generation gap there.





Wouldn't you say it's somewhere from 1995 to 1997?

My little sister, born in 1994 (4 1/2 years younger than) obviously doesn't know the '90s like I do, but still seems like the tail end of my generation.  On the other hand, a kid born in say 1996 or '97 would seem like a totally different generation, whereas I can talk to a 1974-born 32-year-old like I would to a friend.

Wouldn't you say it's somewhere from 1995 to 1997?

My little sister, born in 1994 (4 1/2 years younger than) obviously doesn't know the '90s like I do, but still seems like the tail end of my generation.  On the other hand, a kid born in say 1996 or '97 would seem like a totally different generation, whereas I can talk to a 1974-born 32-year-old like I would to a friend.


I have a few cousins born in 1997, and yeah I would say they seem like a different generation, of course they're 9 years old so that's to be expected.

Wouldn't you say it's somewhere from 1995 to 1997?

My little sister, born in 1994 (4 1/2 years younger than) obviously doesn't know the '90s like I do, but still seems like the tail end of my generation.  On the other hand, a kid born in say 1996 or '97 would seem like a totally different generation, whereas I can talk to a 1974-born 32-year-old like I would to a friend.



Yeah the cusp or gap or whatever you want to call it is about '94-'97. The gen gap between Y and Z is very large and rather sudden when you look at the difference between a '93 born kid and a '96 born kid. It's just 3 years but it makes a huge difference.

^Yeah, 1994-1997 sounds right.  I might even extend the cusp up to 1999 or 2000, depending on how the next decade plays out.

A 1993er, while young, would still know the second Clinton administration well, would know VHS and cassettes, and would clearly remember before 1999, even if it was just little things.  I feel they have more or less the same world view as a 1990er or 1987er, their memories would begin around 1996; mine begin around 1993. 

A 1994er, on the other hand is less clued on the '90s, but still is just barely within Y.  1995 and on, I'm not so sure.  They're probably a cusp generation and would have a totally different world view from myself, 1999 would seem like ancient history to them.  A 1997er is more like a 2006er probably than a 1993er.

^Yeah, 1994-1997 sounds right.  I might even extend the cusp up to 1999 or 2000, depending on how the next decade plays out.

A 1993er, while young, would still know the second Clinton administration well, would know VHS and cassettes, and would clearly remember before 1999, even if it was just little things.  I feel they have more or less the same world view as a 1990er or 1987er, their memories would begin around 1996; mine begin around 1993. 



I would agree that a '93er probably isn't that much different from a 87er like myself even though there memories would start roughly 5-6 years after me I could see how they would have a similiar view of the world as I do. I'm not so sure about a 94er+ though.

I would agree that a '93er probably isn't that much different from a 87er like myself even though there memories would start roughly 5-6 years after me I could see how they would have a similiar view of the world as I do. I'm not so sure about a 94er+ though.


Yeah, like I've said I think 1994 is the final Y year, or at least the last one that's clearly more Y than Z.  They're like to Y what 1963ers are to the Boomers.

Yeah, like I've said I think 1994 is the final Y year, or at least the last one that's clearly more Y than Z.  They're like to Y what 1963ers are to the Boomers.



I agree with the '63-'94 comparison 100%. I think '63 is the last year that someone could be born in and fully get into '70's culture. That's not to say a '64er wouln't because it depends on the person but i'm talking in general. Likewise someone born in '94 would be among the last to get into the very Y 2000's.

Yeah, like I've said I think 1994 is the final Y year, or at least the last one that's clearly more Y than Z.  They're like to Y what 1963ers are to the Boomers.


I agree with that close to 100%. I think probably Z culture will really "take off" in 2013, 2014 or so, but it'll be there before. Their Madonnas and Princes and MJs will come out that year, and probably be mostly 1990-born or so. The classic Gen Zers will probably be like the late '90s to early '00s.

^Yeah, I'd say "core" Gen Z will be like 1998 to 2005.  The transitionals with Y will be 1993-1997.

At what year would you say Gen Y becomes more Zish than Xish?  I personally feel closer to Gen X.

I'd say 1993. It's a pretty sudden change from the XY super-generation to Z.

I'd say 1993. It's a pretty sudden change from the XY super-generation to Z.


Yeah, I'd probably say 1993 also.  Not for the beginning of Z, but for the point at which Y becomes more Zish.  1993er and 1994ers are the ones who tend to be named "Emily" and "Hannah" the most.  1990er, 1991ers, and 1992ers seem like "little 1987ers".

Yeah, I'd probably say 1993 also.  Not for the beginning of Z, but for the point at which Y becomes more Zish.  1993er and 1994ers are the ones who tend to be named "Emily" and "Hannah" the most.  1990er, 1991ers, and 1992ers seem like "little 1987ers".


Generation Y is like the mini- yuppie, conspicuous consumption, '00s end of Generation X with too much rap and world crisis. But we're still overall quite similar to Generation X.

Generation Y is like the mini- yuppie, conspicuous consumption, '00s end of Generation X with too much rap and world crisis. But we're still overall quite similar to Generation X.


Indeed.

So would you say '92ers are the last crop of "Little Xers"?

Indeed.

So would you say '92ers are the last crop of "Little Xers"?


Yeah, '92ers seem to be the last crop of little Xers, though I'm sure Generation Z will have serious X influences because most of their parents are Xers...they'll be listening to Duran Duran as little kids  instead of the Beatles.

Yeah, '92ers seem to be the last crop of little Xers, though I'm sure Generation Z will have serious X influences because most of their parents are Xers...they'll be listening to Duran Duran as little kids  instead of the Beatles.


Ha ha ha  ;D  They'll see the '80s as the "golden, innocent" decade.  I see them as a cool, pre-digital decade.

Ha ha ha  ;D  They'll see the '80s as the "golden, innocent" decade.  I see them as a cool, pre-digital decade.


They'll see the '80s as their parents' decade, no doubt.

They'll see the '80s as their parents' decade, no doubt.


At least for 1995 up, for sure.  They wouldn't know any of its afterglow the way 1990-'92ers and obviously '80s babies would.

At least for 1995 up, for sure.  They wouldn't know any of its afterglow the way 1990-'92ers and obviously '80s babies would.


I do find it very weird 95+ Gen Zers will be listening to Duran Duran, Madonna, MJ, Prince, and hair metal as the first music they know, largely...I wonder if that'll impact their future musical preferences.

Wouldn't you say it's somewhere from 1995 to 1997?

My little sister, born in 1994 (4 1/2 years younger than) obviously doesn't know the '90s like I do, but still seems like the tail end of my generation.  On the other hand, a kid born in say 1996 or '97 would seem like a totally different generation, whereas I can talk to a 1974-born 32-year-old like I would to a friend.


I've noticed the same thing with an '84er concerning the '80s (especially since the iconic parts of the '80s and '90s were roughly the same parts of each respective decade -- late 1981-1986/87, and mid 1991-96 or so). I knew several in high school (mostly girls, LOL) who were probably the elder hipsters/"boy band" fans, but at the same time weren't totally clueless on the '80s. They knew about, say latter day Aerosmith, or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and perhaps owned some cassettes.

Whereas there were alot of '85ers who made me feel kinda old/different from the in crowd when I was, like 17-22 (and they were around 12 or 13 to 18).

We could apply that to a 1994 versus a 1995-er, even if it seems like nitpicking to do it by only one year. Going by what you previously said, 1998 is probably when the digital age we're in now started really taking off (the Internet was basically household and essential, even if not quite), but the analog age of VHS being popular (it's still around and probably always will be slightly) and such, probably ended around 2002/03.

For some reason, the age one starts school seems pretty defining. So if they started 1st grade before Fall 2002 (age 6 or 7 - born 1995/96) they should recall it enough. They'd probably have some vague 9/11 memories, and if they were the type who paid attention, possibly even some 1999/Y2K, though that's borderline.

Isnt that strange? It's like the difference between a 1977er and 1987er and a 1997er and a 1987er. My older cousin whose '77 born has alot of the same intrests and view that I do(we both love Nirvana). But my younger cousin whose '97/'98? born is like a polar oppsite to me. That's what leads me to belive there's a generation gap there.


I feel that way too. Talking to someone born in 1960 around 45 or 46 today, basically feels like just an older version of my own peers (even when I was 10 and they were 32ish, I still felt this way), but a 1996er who didn't understand life before the Internet would feel really freakin' weird.

BTW, I also do consider a 1990er (such as yourself ;) ) to be kinda like younger brothers/sisters, or younger versions of, say a 1984 or '85-er friend.

I feel that way too. Talking to someone born in 1960 around 45 or 46 today, basically feels like just an older version of my own peers (even when I was 10 and they were 32ish, I still felt this way), but a 1996er who didn't understand life before the Internet would feel really freakin' weird.

BTW, I also do consider a 1990er (such as yourself ;) ) to be kinda like younger brothers/sisters, or younger versions of, say a 1984 or '85-er friend.


I agree.  But then again, it's probably easier to say you're like a 30-year-old than a 5-year old ;)

McFly, what's your opinion on the end of Gen Y?  I'm thinking lately 1994 is the last Y year, and 1995 is the first Z, however Y may go up to 1996.

I agree.  But then again, it's probably easier to say you're like a 30-year-old than a 5-year old ;)

McFly, what's your opinion on the end of Gen Y?  I'm thinking lately 1994 is the last Y year, and 1995 is the first Z, however Y may go up to 1996.


You know, I wish we could get some 1994-96ers on the board to get an inside look on this! It's gonna take some time to tell, and of course, everyone is different, but I'd guess 1993 is the last "100% Gen Y" year, and 1997 is the first "fully Z year" (though still with some Y influence) just from not starting school till at least 2003, basically as far into the digital age as right now is.

I am leaning on 1994 to 1995 too, much like there's a difference between alot of 1984 and 85ers. ;)

You know, I wish we could get some 1994-96ers on the board to get an inside look on this! It's gonna take some time to tell, and of course, everyone is different, but I'd guess 1993 is the last "100% Gen Y" year, and 1997 is the first "fully Z year" (though still with some Y influence) just from not starting school till at least 2003, basically as far into the digital age as right now is.

I am leaning on 1994 to 1995 too, much like there's a difference between alot of 1984 and 85ers. ;)


and the topic is once more relived and coming from a person born in 1994 would say that:

Generation Y demographic culturally speaking ending towards 1996... although i'm a fan of the 1980-1994 demographic, Gen Y culture has now past it peaks... were now slightly entering Generation Z culture towards mid 10s...

Many of 1994-5 kids are very similar and have both gen Y and Z attitudes..  we tend to have Gen Y traits and mannerism but Gen Z environment of growing up and fads and the fact that the late 90s - early 00s are the early childhood years for us in shaping our attitudes and early 00s similar to late 90s culturally anyway... i guess the borderline really is somewhere between 1994-1996 but 1994 kids for sure are still towards Gen Y mannerism

difference between 80s and 90s babies.... well there isn't much with late 80s and early 90s babies... essentially growing up in similar time... early 80s and late 90s babies are for sure 2 generation gaps.... the late 90s babaies are now about to enter high school or in middle school with all the high tech environment and under the shadows of 2008 financial crisis which was a totally distant culture of early 80s babies that remember the fall of communism and grow up with TV's completely and during economic golden years

That's true.  I mean, look at Rihanna.  She's a 1988er, less than two years older than me.  And JoJo, believe it or not, is born in 1990, and she's from 2004!
But generally, I think the entertainers of Gen Z will be born in the '80s, '90s, and '00s.

Yeah, that's true about Barrymore.  A lot of her fans are probably Gen Xers; she's definitely X herself because of her '80s presence in "ET" and such.

Would you call Grunge a Gen Y phoenomenon?  I wouldn't say it is, but it's weird that many if not most Gen Xers hate it.  I think of it more as an XY cusp thing, but since that part of Y is basically the same as Gen X in many respects Grunge is still largely a Gen X thing.  Basically, the 1975-1984 demographic is the one that would like it most, but it's not totally out of style even today.


This is an excellent point. Its as if the Gen X'ers who created grunge were doing it for a younger audience, which makes sense given that it was the later Silent Generation (Lennon, Hendrix, Morrison) who created the defining music of the 60s. I also agree with the distinction among Baby Boomers, 1945-53 was the 60s era, those 54-57-ish were more or less defined by the 70s. 1958-63' is sort of transitional pre-X'er phase, and 64-66' is cusp and likely more X than Boomer. People like Robert Smith and Morrissey were part of this cohort, and though they weren't Generation X, their music laid a lot of the foundation for the 90s alternative culture. In a way its like being in between generations, kind of the best of both worlds. :)

I think the same scenario also applies to the later Generation Y'ers, past 1988 through 1993, which actually mirrors the later Boomers. Since the boomers birthed most of Generation Y, this makes sense.

I meant the 1958-63' birth cohort, for Morrissey and Smith.

I meant the 1958-63' birth cohort, for Morrissey and Smith.


No you didn't.  You meant the 1969-1971 birth cohort

They were both born in 1959. I kind of made it sound like they were Generation X the way I worded it though.

'80s babies generally are more anxious with new technology than '90s babies since they expect it more and that the '80s babies are now old enough where certain new technology can seem strange to what they were using even into their teens, plus they are currently the most prominant generation that's getting married and starting a family compared to other generations.

In general, before nostalgia suddenly made kids like music from past eras, I feel that it varies by format in which a certain generation creates for a younger audience. For instance, most of the cartoons that people enjoy were created/written/voiced by people approximately 30-40 years older than the audience it most appeals to. For instance, while people think of Rocky & Bullwinkle, Popeye, The Flinstones, The Chipmunks, and The Jetsons as "boomer cartoons", they were predominantly made by people of the GI/WWII generation. Today's kids have mainly a Gen X crowd working on cartoons with a few leftover boomers still around and some early Gen Y just starting to entertain the Gen Z audience. This is so that cartoons remain family-friendly and that the adults of those kids can still enjoy. Certain TV sitcoms also apply.

However, specifically youth-targeted mediums such as pop music and non-comedy/family movies seems to have people only around 5 years older than who the audience is predominantly catering to, pigeonholeing their audiences more.

As time passes, I feel the differences between the two will get smaller (like all generations) as various reincarnations and revivals attempt to lure multiple generations. Both downloaded classic Beatles songs last year for instance. Even the '80s babies memories of a pre-Internet world continue to get fuzzier as the minority of that pre-Internet world continues to expand. But a difference between '90s and '00s babies is that the '90s babies are probably the last to remember a pre-HDTV world, flip phones as standard cell phones, and dial-up Internet. Plus, '80s babies are now old enough where toys from their childhood are labeled "vintage"! (Yep, even stuff into the mid-late '90s on eBay, and there is such a thing as vintage Pokemon even!)

'80s babies generally are more anxious with new technology than '90s babies since they expect it more and that the '80s babies are now old enough where certain new technology can seem strange to what they were using even into their teens, plus they are currently the most prominant generation that's getting married and starting a family compared to other generations.

As time passes, I feel the differences between the two will get smaller (like all generations) as various reincarnations and revivals attempt to lure multiple generations. Both downloaded classic Beatles songs last year for instance. Even the '80s babies memories of a pre-Internet world continue to get fuzzier as the minority of that pre-Internet world continues to expand. But a difference between '90s and '00s babies is that the '90s babies are probably the last to remember a pre-HDTV world, flip phones as standard cell phones, and dial-up Internet. Plus, '80s babies are now old enough where toys from their childhood are labeled "vintage"! (Yep, even stuff into the mid-late '90s on eBay, and there is such a thing as vintage Pokemon even!)


I agree with your reasons, Be in mind, some countries did not experience internet era until around 2000s, Internet only starting to really expand only since 2002 onwards in some developing countries (there were internet before that but it's still not a common thing) so some 90s babies remember pre-internet life such as myself.

also there's an interesting article about china's 80s and 90s babies comparison

http://www.echinacities.com/expat-corner/post-80s-and-90s-what-s-with-the-ultra-short-generation.html

more on the post 90s article with latest trend http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-11/12/content_10347763.htm

As I've said before I think there's a big difference between earlier '00s teens like myself and the late '00s teens born in the early-mid '90s. I was old enough to know about more than just playing with my toys in the '90s and was into the pop culture of the late '90s and early '00s. '90s babies I think dislike the late '90s early '00s more than people my age and older and were more into stuff like "emo" which I think was liked by the ones a few years younger than me.

I think there will be always be a difference between people due to an age gap. Already 2-4 years can mean much! It must not really depend on the decade, but due to the massive changes between 1980 and 2000 I think it is typical for the birth years in that time range. Those differences tend towards 'zero' once the younger person is in his 20's.

The main differences are childhood and teenage memories and the different conception of the world when you are very young. Let's take a 1986er and a 1990er (4-year-difference). The '86er probably remembers the time when the '90er was not able to memorize things (ca. '89-'93). The '90er starts to remember things from around '93 on but the '86er already does different things at this time. The '86er is fully into mid-90's-kid culture which was different to the late-90's-kid culture in which the '90er probably will be into. Once the late 90's/early '00's-culture begins, the '86er starts to do teenage stuff while the '90er is probably still playing with his toys 'till around 2001. The '86er is fully unaware of 2000's kids culture.

A '90er had some teenage years WITH facebook, an '86er lived fully without it when he was a teenager.... an '86er probably had dial-up until he was 18, a '90er probably not... But like I said... once 2030 hits, everybody born from 1980 to 1995 will be nearly equal.

The main problem with classing people as 80s and 90s babies is that there is a difference between an '80er and an '89er, just as there is a difference between an '90er and a '99er. Someone born in '95 such as myself, although not claiming to remember anything retro, can remember pre-HD TV, VHS, Dial-up, and old phones, as a previous poster has pointed out. I would class myself as generation Y, although most people put '95 into generation Z, but I find that '97 is probably the start of gen Z. A '97er will have no memories of the '90s at all and was not even a teenager in the 00s. But it's all subjective, like i'm saying, i'm sure some people will say to me "You are gen Z". So the difference I find in people born in the 80s and 90s is the difference in generations.

I think there will be always be a difference between people due to an age gap. Already 2-4 years can mean much! It must not really depend on the decade, but due to the massive changes between 1980 and 2000 I think it is typical for the birth years in that time range. Those differences tend towards 'zero' once the younger person is in his 20's.

The main differences are childhood and teenage memories and the different conception of the world when you are very young. Let's take a 1986er and a 1990er (4-year-difference). The '86er probably remembers the time when the '90er was not able to memorize things (ca. '89-'93). The '90er starts to remember things from around '93 on but the '86er already does different things at this time. The '86er is fully into mid-90's-kid culture which was different to the late-90's-kid culture in which the '90er probably will be into. Once the late 90's/early '00's-culture begins, the '86er starts to do teenage stuff while the '90er is probably still playing with his toys 'till around 2001. The '86er is fully unaware of 2000's kids culture.

A '90er had some teenage years WITH facebook, an '86er lived fully without it when he was a teenager.... an '86er probably had dial-up until he was 18, a '90er probably not... But like I said... once 2030 hits, everybody born from 1980 to 1995 will be nearly equal.

I agree with this, but i'm inutrigued to know what you meant when you said that once 2030 hits, 1980-1995 will be nearly equal..

but i'm inutrigued to know what you meant when you said that once 2030 hits, 1980-1995 will be nearly equal..


I meant that the whole crowd born during that time will already be between 35 and 50 and will see the world equally. The 15 year difference just does not have the same effects as it still has today, because the individuals have spend more time together on the world than 'alone'.

Someone born in '95 such as myself, although not claiming to remember anything retro, can remember pre-HD TV, VHS, Dial-up, and old phones, as a previous poster has pointed out. I would class myself as generation Y, although most people put '95 into generation Z,


But I don't think that remembering something like pre-HDTV, VHS and old phones (whatever you mean by these) is everything to 'qualify' for the real generation Y.

Look, I am peak gen Y, and I remember how we got cable in 1989, I remember when we didn't have VHS (till late '95), I still got a non-HDTV TV for my 18th birthday in 2004. I had my early childhood in the late '80's and early '90's when really nothing was like today (talking about information technology) - but I am still Peak Gen Y.

In my opinion, to qualify for Gen Y you have to remember the time before the "Y-culture". Having the first memories in the 'kinda'-Y-culture of the late '90's is too late in my opinion.

You're sort of a Y/Z-cusp.

I agree with this, but i'm inutrigued to know what you meant when you said that once 2030 hits, 1980-1995 will be nearly equal..


After you reach a certain age(like around 25) age differences seem to lessen because the two people with the age differences are two grown adults instead of two still maturing kids/teenagers. The human brain completes it's pruning process around 24-ish and so people tend to level off somewhat after their mid 20s, they generally gain a stability to their personalities. That's why childern and teenagers are so impressionable and vulnerable to things like addiction, because their brains(especailly the frontal lobes) are still developing.

The difference between a 14 year old and 18 year old are noteable because the two are teenagers still in the process of maturing but the difference between a 24 year old and 28 year old is alot less because the two are both fully grown adults. If Gen Y goes from 1982-2000(like Neil Howe claims), then a significant portion of the generation is still maturing adolescents so by the time 2030 comes the whole generation would be full adults(with some in their mid life).

The main problem with classing people as 80s and 90s babies is that there is a difference between an '80er and an '89er, just as there is a difference between an '90er and a '99er. Someone born in '95 such as myself, although not claiming to remember anything retro, can remember pre-HD TV, VHS, Dial-up, and old phones, as a previous poster has pointed out. I would class myself as generation Y, although most people put '95 into generation Z, but I find that '97 is probably the start of gen Z. A '97er will have no memories of the '90s at all and was not even a teenager in the 00s. But it's all subjective, like i'm saying, i'm sure some people will say to me "You are gen Z". So the difference I find in people born in the 80s and 90s is the difference in generations.


IMO as someone born in 1987, a 1995er is around the youngest I could relate to. Someone born in 1997 I would not consider my generation.

I also feel there is a distinct wall between single young adults and married adults. Depending on where you live, sometime between your mid 20s and early 30s is a transition where most you can relate to are single/without a family to the majority married couples and starting a family, which often results in a significant loss in contact as the friends you dated/hung out with go their own ways, and want more time with their own families. This metamorphasis is currently happening with those born in the early-mid '80s, and is about to start with those born in the late '80s/early '90s as that mini-generation is now graduating college. But generally, '90s babies are in the prime "single life" generation, the '80s in a transition, with the '70s babies in the "married life" generation.

IMO as someone born in 1987, a 1995er is around the youngest I could relate to. Someone born in 1997 I would not consider my generation.


Can you really already relate to a '95er? Being born a year earlier than you I can relate to someone born in '91/'92 at latest. Maybe a 19-year-old '93er would be alright, too, but I don't think my interests really fit to the typical interests of the 16-18 crowd. And late '90's is really out of my world. My dad teaches those guys at the moment at school and I know how 'little' and different they still are  ;D

Being born in 87, I can relate to those up until about 92.  93-96 I would say is the Y/Z cusp, and 97 on is Z.  I guess the main difference between myself and people born in the early 90s is that they don't remember as much from the pre-internet era (before 97 or so), but they caught a glimpse of it.  They also had things like facebook and youtube when they were in high school, whereas I had already graduated.

93-96 I can't say too much about because I honestly haven't ever really interacted with them.  I'll probably have a better idea as they enter the workforce in the coming years.  I think the big difference with them is that they don't remember anything before the internet, so that creates a bit of a generational gap.

97 and on is a big difference.  I have some younger cousins born in the late 90s, and I don't really see any similarities.  They've had a much different upbringing.

Very early 80's born 1980/1981 are usually considered part of Generation X.  1982 is a cusp (some seems very X, some like Y).  I think generation Y begins in 1983/1984 and probably lasts until 2000.  I think the mid 80's and 90s born are part of the same generation just different waves.  Like gen X has 2 waves, and the baby boomers.  The ones towards the end are always going to be part of a cusp and are different than the core of the generation.  I was not a teen during the 80's, but remember the grunge era, and consider the 80's and 90's as my time (childhood/teenage years) and I identify more with the music and culture of those times than the millenial era.  I was born in 1981, and consider myself X or XY cusp but some people my age identify with Y or Y cusp.

I think the mid 80's and 90s born are part of the same generation just different waves. 


But not the whole '90's. I think there is a big differences between somebody born in 1985 and somebody born in like 1995.

Very early 80's born 1980/1981 are usually considered part of Generation X.  1982 is a cusp (some seems very X, some like Y).  I think generation Y begins in 1983/1984 and probably lasts until 2000.  I think the mid 80's and 90s born are part of the same generation just different waves.  Like gen X has 2 waves, and the baby boomers.  The ones towards the end are always going to be part of a cusp and are different than the core of the generation.  I was not a teen during the 80's, but remember the grunge era, and consider the 80's and 90's as my time (childhood/teenage years) and I identify more with the music and culture of those times than the millenial era.  I was born in 1981, and consider myself X or XY cusp but some people my age identify with Y or Y cusp.


It's hard to see how someone born in 2000 has anything in common with a person born in the 80s or even the early 90s for that matter.  I see gen Y as the generation that witnessed the integration of modern day technology (the internet, cellphones, digital technology, etc) into everyday life as they were growing up.  For someone born in 2000, it's all they've ever known.

I'd agree that people born in the early 80s are X/Y cusp, but it seems like they lean slightly towards Y.  Look at Brittney Spears, Justin Timberlake, Christina Aguilera, or Paris Hilton (didn't want to mention her, but she's a good example)... all born in the early 80s, and heavily associated with gen Y.  But I'm sure some people (like yourself) identify with gen X.  It's just hard to imagine anyone born in the 80s being part of the generation directly after the baby boomers, who are now becoming senior citizens.  But then again, I've never really bought into generations; they're just social constructs.

It's hard to see how someone born in 2000 has anything in common with a person born in the 80s or even the early 90s for that matter. 


That's it. You can't just group mid-80's together with the ones born in 2000 - a group, who can't even remember the '90s. I see anyone between a range of 5-6 years maximum as part of my generation, which would be people born from 1981- ca. 1991. We had a childhood which was just slightly different (the '81er had maybe slightly less advanced technology at home, the '91er slightly more advanced... and so on). I am not a fan of those wide definitions of generations. Considering the whole period from 1982-2000 as being one generation is just very superficial and just not true. 5 years around the own birth year seems realistic, because you mostly share the same pop cultural experiences - except for the short period before the birth of the younger party.

Example:
Even though I was just 10 in 1996 and the '81er 15 -> I still knew how teen culture in the mid-late 90's was so the experiences are very similar. The 5 year old '91er probably knew, how the '10-year-old-kid' culture in 1996 was, so we also share some experiences.

That's it. You can't just group mid-80's together with the ones born in 2000 - a group, who can't even remember the '90s. I see anyone between a range of 5-6 years maximum as part of my generation, which would be people born from 1981- ca. 1991. We had a childhood which was just slightly different (the '81er had maybe slightly less advanced technology at home, the '91er slightly more advanced... and so on). I am not a fan of those wide definitions of generations. Considering the whole period from 1982-2000 as being one generation is just very superficial and just not true. 5 years around the own birth year seems realistic, because you mostly share the same pop cultural experiences - except for the short period before the birth of the younger party.

Example:
Even though I was just 10 in 1996 and the '81er 15 -> I still knew how teen culture in the mid-late 90's was so the experiences are very similar. The 5 year old '91er probably knew, how the '10-year-old-kid' culture in 1996 was, so we also share some experiences.


This is true, i was born in 1991 and i still remember teen culture in the very late 90s and very early 00s, which was was geared towards those born around 83-88 i guess.

That's it. You can't just group mid-80's together with the ones born in 2000 - a group, who can't even remember the '90s. I see anyone between a range of 5-6 years maximum as part of my generation, which would be people born from 1981- ca. 1991. We had a childhood which was just slightly different (the '81er had maybe slightly less advanced technology at home, the '91er slightly more advanced... and so on). I am not a fan of those wide definitions of generations. Considering the whole period from 1982-2000 as being one generation is just very superficial and just not true. 5 years around the own birth year seems realistic, because you mostly share the same pop cultural experiences - except for the short period before the birth of the younger party.

Example:
Even though I was just 10 in 1996 and the '81er 15 -> I still knew how teen culture in the mid-late 90's was so the experiences are very similar. The 5 year old '91er probably knew, how the '10-year-old-kid' culture in 1996 was, so we also share some experiences.


Agreed.  The age gap is really what matters, not the socially constructed generation someone falls into.  I'd say everyone has an age range that they can relate to, which slowly expands as you get older.  For me as a kid/teen, it was about 85-89.  These are the people I 'grew up with.'  Now it's expanded to about 82-92.

which slowly expands as you get older


That's a good point I forget to mention. When I was younger, lets say 10 years ago; even late 1987 felt young to me. It has expanded into the very early '90's right now, going to be 26.

Very early 80's born 1980/1981 are usually considered part of Generation X.  1982 is a cusp (some seems very X, some like Y).  I think generation Y begins in 1983/1984 and probably lasts until 2000.  I think the mid 80's and 90s born are part of the same generation just different waves.  Like gen X has 2 waves, and the baby boomers.  The ones towards the end are always going to be part of a cusp and are different than the core of the generation.  I was not a teen during the 80's, but remember the grunge era, and consider the 80's and 90's as my time (childhood/teenage years) and I identify more with the music and culture of those times than the millenial era.  I was born in 1981, and consider myself X or XY cusp but some people my age identify with Y or Y cusp.


it's interesting how you divided the early 80s because those are the ones i relate to... well, relate to the best. i suppose you can also throw in the late 70's (1978/1979). even those who were born not too long after me.. i have a hard time relating to. i also consider myself an x/y cusp.

Babies born in the 80's will be older that those born on the 90's.

Babies born in the 80's will be older that those born on the 90's.


...will be in their 30's sometime in the 2010's while '90's babies have to wait at least till the 2020's. ;)

it's interesting how you divided the early 80s because those are the ones i relate to... well, relate to the best. i suppose you can also throw in the late 70's (1978/1979). even those who were born not too long after me.. i have a hard time relating to. i also consider myself an x/y cusp.


the cusps are always have tricky situation in terms of categorisation for example, late 70s and early 80s born are all have very common traits but are quite distinct to the core generations thus why the gap between X and Y is between 1979 and 1980 which is pretty much the most middle part between the generations. Same case with Y and Z cusps (my case) 1993-1996 are basically the cusps of Y and Z with 1994 and 1995 as the split of years between Y and Z. But yes these cusps do have some differences in traits compared to the previous cusps of course. Yes the theory of the widening age of circle of friends as you get older are infact, it is a fact

80s babies Graduated High School from 1998-2007
90s babies Graduated High School from 2008-2017

Wow, even this is a really old topic, the style of this topic reminds me so much of a current members type of threads. Really spooky.

...will be in their 30's sometime in the 2010's while '90's babies have to wait at least till the 2020's. ;)


I'll basically be 30 by the end of 2019. haha. Not sure if that's a good thing or not  ;D

I'll basically be 30 by the end of 2019. haha. Not sure if that's a good thing or not  ;D


Aging is a natural part of life. :]

It is better to reach 30 than to not. The alternative is less pleasant.

Aging is a natural part of life. :]

It is better to reach 30 than to not. The alternative is less pleasant.


True, and to be honest, 30 doesn't seem remotely old to me at this point.

True, and to be honest, 30 doesn't seem remotely old to me at this point.


You and I still have a few years before we turn 30 anyway, eh?

I say we should enjoy our twenties while we can. I turn 24 in February, but I am in no rush to greet my birthday.

You and I still have a few years before we turn 30 anyway, eh?

I say we should enjoy our twenties while we can. I turn 24 in February, but I am in no rush to greet my birthday.


I turn 23 in January. I still have 7 more years of being 'super young' and 17+ years of being 'young'. :)

I turn 23 in January. I still have 7 more years of being 'super young' and 17+ years of being 'young'. :)


I think being young in the mind and spirit is the most important aspect rather than chronological age.  8)

I get the impression a lot of people reach emotional maturity around 24, 25 roughly, for me personally time accelerates even more after 25, not to mention there is real scientific evidence that the frontal lobes don't reach maturity until age 24-25. I'd say no one is "very young" anymore after 25 and not young when a person reaches their late thirties/early forties.

I get the impression a lot of people reach emotional maturity around 24, 25 roughly, for me personally time accelerates even more after 25, not to mention there is real scientific evidence that the frontal lobes don't reach maturity until age 24-25. I'd say no one is "very young" anymore after 25 and not young when a person reaches their late thirties/early forties.


It's subjective. Honestly, I feel like since I moved out of the nest nearly two years ago, time has moved by more slowly compared to during my teens. Probably because I have more freedom to do whatever I wish to do.

for me personally time accelerates even more after 25


Yeah, same to me.

It's subjective. Honestly, I feel like since I moved out of the nest nearly two years ago, time has moved by more slowly compared to during my teens. Probably because I have more freedom to do whatever I wish to do.


You are not 25 yet  ;D

When I was 22/23 it was indeed still a bit different - even though it's just 3-4 years ago.

You are not 25 yet  ;D

When I was 22/23 it was indeed still a bit different - even though it's just 3-4 years ago.


Yeah, I guess I will see in a few years, eh?

Yeah, I guess I will see in a few years, eh?


Yeah, which leads us back to topic with an example of 'the (current) difference between 80s and 90s babies' ;)

Yeah, I guess I will see in a few years, eh?


For me personally, it really is kind of disorienting how fast the years have been flying by, it literally feels like I skipped from 24 to 27.
I've heard older people(around 50+) say this starts to happen with entire decades of their lives :o.

it really is kind of disorienting how fast the years have been flying by, it literally feels like I skipped from 24 to 27.


Definetly, and exactly these kind of years! 27 (so late 20s) sounded so far away  - not too long ago...2010 I guess - and now it's only a bit more than 6 months left and 28 (which I recently cosidered quite old) is only 1.5 years away.

I get the impression a lot of people reach emotional maturity around 24, 25 roughly, for me personally time accelerates even more after 25, not to mention there is real scientific evidence that the frontal lobes don't reach maturity until age 24-25. I'd say no one is "very young" anymore after 25 and not young when a person reaches their late thirties/early forties.


Well, I just turned 25 a few months ago, and I would say that it seems like time "accelerated" on me quite a while ago.

I was just thinking about this a few days ago, now that we're getting so close to 2013, and 2003 being a decade ago. I was remembering how, back in 2003, I would think about some key hallmarks from my life back in 1993 (getting my SNES, staring 1st grade etc.) and how ancient that seemed at the time. Now I look back on 2003 and everything that happened year like it happened ten days ago.

Now I look back on 2003 and everything that happened year like it happened ten days ago.


Yeah, same to me. But that has definetly something to do with the fact that we were just kids in the 1990s and teens in the 2000s. Since the teenage life style is closer to the grown up life style, it's pretty obvious that our kid time seemed further away than it actually was in like 2003.

Yeah, same to me. But that has definetly something to do with the fact that we were just kids in the 1990s and teens in the 2000s. Since the teenage life style is closer to the grown up life style, it's pretty obvious that our kid time seemed further away than in actually was in like 2003.


That's what I think. 2003 seems recent because I was 13 and not tiny then, but when I think about it, so much has happened in my life since then. It really does seem like a while ago when I think about it!

I'll basically be 30 by the end of 2019. haha. Not sure if that's a good thing or not  ;D


and I'll be 45 by 2019.